Racial Forging Bonus

[Fallen]

Weapon forging is one of the most difficult and time consuming pass times in Gemstone, and also potentially the most rewarding. The changes coming to the artisan skill headed by GM Bernt will likely make the skill even more rich, complex, and beneficial. In the hopes of adding to the renovation of the skill, I present the idea of racial forging bonuses. The idea is fairly straight forward, each race will provide a different bonus to their finished product. The benefit derived from their labors will reflect upon the race's innate talents, and their idea of what qualities in a weapon should be most valued.

Here are a list of benefits which *I* think fit each race. I will provide a brief explanation as to why I hold to that belief. Understand that this is personal opinion only, and not what MUST BE DONE to make the system work. I am purposefully avoiding assigning values to the benefits, as I already expect people not to focus on the idea itself, but rather which race is afforded which benefit.

My opinion of the additional racial benefits is that they should be fairly slight, though they SHOULD stack with that of the enhanced qualities of a Perfect Weapon. Further, the benefits should extend down to only 1 level below perfect, and to perfect weapons themselves. However, this is just my idea of how things can work. Feel free to differ.

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Onto the list:

Elf: While not quite as renown as dwarves in their work with the metals of Elanthia, none can deny elven craftsmanship as being truly remarkable in quality. As a result of their skilled techniques, the best elven weaponry has an increased AvD over the standard, non-elven counterparts. (AvD increase) {Blade}

Dark Elf: Like their fair-skinned kin, Dark Elven weaponry stands clearly out from the fare of the lesser races. However, the focus of the dark elven weapon lies not in elegance of design, but in the deadliness of the strike delivered, resulting in a level of Crit Weighting for each high quality blade forged by dark elven hands. (Crit Weighting) {Blade}

Dwarf: Arguably the best metalsmiths in the lands, Dwarven weaponry is sought after by all races of Elanthia, and rightly so. Their zeal in the crafting of the tools of war takes on a level of devotion that would border on fanaticism by the standards of their lesser skilled competitors. As a result, Dwarven weaponry carries with it a higher Damage Factor than the weapons crafted by those outside of the true masters of the forge. (DF increase){Blade}

Sylvan: Certainly not known for their skills with forging metals, none can deny a sylvan's innate talent for shaping woods to flawless fit any design. Without sacrificing the stability or balance of a weapon, a skilled sylvan forger can place a small container within the hilt of a weapon he or she takes the time to produce. (Pocketed hilt) {Hilt}

Half-krol: Not known for their beauty or elegance in design, Half-krolvin weaponry still manages to effectively spill the blood of their intended victims. It is said that the most skilled of the half-krolvin harness the savagery attributed to their race into their weaponry, affording their blades an amount Damage Weighting. (Damage Weighting) {Blade}

Gnome: More interested if the weapon buzzes or blinks than how well it cuts, gnomish gear isn't exactly universally sought throughout the lands. However, these crafty underground dwellers can make weapons which can produce a fan to cool its user during battle, or emit a high-pitched screech of distress. Others have spoken of odd occurrences of an extra blade or rod popping out to stab their enemy as their weapon made contact with their foe. (One race can produce scripted weapons, another could have temporary, or permanent mechanical flares) {Scripts in Hilt, Flares in Blade} (ALTERNATE IDEA: Gnome only very light weapons)

Human: Human weaponry is neither as excellently crafted as a dwarf's, nor is it as elegant and flawless in design as an elf's. It does not hit harder, look better, or perform more admirably than any of the other races. Infact, the only quality worth remarking upon of a human master forger's work is that they tend to use less of the metal itself, making the blade lighter, yet less durable. Why make a sword that can last through the ages when its wielder will barely live through just one? (Lighter, possibly lower breakage) {Hilt and/or Blade}

Halfling: While not necessarily known for their skills in battle, Halfling made weaponry proves serviceable enough. However, the Halflings true skill lies in ranged weaponry meant to be hurled at their foe from a distance. Even races outside the Truefolk find that weapons specifically meant to be thrown hit their mark with greater success when forged by the small, fur-footed forgers. (Increased Sighting for thrown weapons) {NA} (ALTERNATE IDEA: Halfling only very light weapons)

Half-breeds: I've got nothing. I hate these guys. Slight natural Enchant, maybe?

Giantkin: Forgot these guys. I think something having to do with oversized weapons which have unique benefits, but are heavier would be a good idea. Thoughts?

Aelotoi: No idea. Thoughts?

Erithi: With the arrival of the Erithian culture to lower Elanith, so came their style of weaponry. While any forger can reproduce the basic theme of their weapons, only a true Erithi weaponsmaster can create a perfect specimen of Erithi design. (Erithi weaponry can only be perfect if crafted by Erithians) {NA}

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Additional Ideas:

Obviously, the ability to turn this racial bonus ON or OFF would be required. Perhaps make it an entirely different step in the forging process performed at a specific part throughout its creation that one can CHOOSE to do, or not to do. Additional skill/failure checks could apply.

Other ideas for how race can factor into forging is that a weapon can provide a slightly increased bonus if the forger and the wielder of the same race. These bonuses could be a fixed benefit, or vary by the race. I personally believe weapons forged by someone should have increased benefits for the maker, however that idea is by no means a new one.

Also, a weapon forged by a gnome should LOOK different than a weapon forged by an elf. Each race should have a custom LOOK applied to a weapon they have forged. A simple SHOW description could suffice, or even something as slight as a racial glyph which could be applied to the weapon in place of, or in addition to the forger's personal mark. These appearances could be based off of both race AND culture.

Finally, I think that forged weapons could become a project shared between 2 different craftsmen. The racial benefit provided could either be placed upon the HILT or the BLADE of a weapon, and those two pieces could be joined together to have both benefits placed upon the weapon. I noted in brackets {} whether I think a particular race's benefits would be for the HILT or the BLADE, or NA if neither were appropriate.

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The Reasoning:

The main reason why I want to have race come into play when forging weapons is that it would cause diversity within the forging market. Certain people will want certain benefits from their weapons. When they do, they will seek out a member of that race who is a master forger to gain the desired skill. Obviously, some races will be more popular than others, but again, balancing the benefits is a job best left to the GM in charge of the project.

I also believe that racial forging benfits would create a desire of some races, or even cultures if the glyph system would allow, to seek out their OWN races if they knew these benefits would increase because of the shared race/culture of the forger. Even if the benefits didn't stack, I know my character would certainly desire a blade crafted by a Dhe'nari/Dark Elven forger to carry on his person, just as a Nalfein would prefer her daggers made by one of their own kin.

Again, the goal is diversity. Every race and/or culture would have something unique to bring to the table, and it would allow for more people to want their character to pick up forging, rather than just a small group of people producing most of the game's perfect weaponry.

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Conclusion:

This has been an idea I've bounced around in my brain for some time. I am hoping that the idea sparks discussion as to the possibilities of racial and cultural bents applied to weapon forging. Again, the specific benefits assigned to each race is completely arbitrary, along with the actual level of bonus received. I would enjoy feedback on that aspect, but more importantly the idea as a whole.

Evarin's Player

[Anebriated]

I think humans got shafted :(

[TheEschaton]

Oh God, for a second I thought this was one of your OFFICIAL cross posts, as opposed to just your ideas.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I think humans got shafted :(

At least he didn't act as if they didn't exist like he did with giants. FU you racist piece of shit Fallen.

[AestheticDeath]

I think humans got shafted :(

Ditto - Id say making weapons lighter without lower breakage would be good.

[Anebriated]

Yeah, i did to until I read the conclusion. Its a great idea but I dont see it happening for 5-10 years...

[Celephais]

Are you kidding? The only weapons anyone will want will be Dark Elf forged weapons.

[Anebriated]

IMO dwarves should be able to craft a flask out of the hilt for beverages to go!


Are you kidding? The only weapons anyone will want will be Dark Elf forged weapons.

Think that came from the bias of the creator? Not saying there is anything wrong with that but I noticed that as well.

[Fallen]

Actually, most people will want Dwarven weapons. However, some people will want throw away weapons, and some crit weighting would be nice. Some people would want thrown weapons, halfling would play in well there. Sylvans and gnomes could make hilts for those people that want the best possible weapon out of forging. Half-krol weapons would be awesome for half-krols if they could get their hands on some Razern, stacking the benefits of damage weighted forging, plus razern, plus a half-krol use bonus. etc etc.

And FUCK, I did forget giants. Knew I should have, uhh, looked at the list of races before finishing the draft. Yes, I also should have put, Idea:, before the post. I did on the officials.

What would be a good benefit for Giants and halfbreeds? And yes, those stupid humans should probably not get shafted on a mechanic that will never come out.

Finally, Bernt is doing the forging updates. They WILL be coming out unless he retires or something. He already did great work with a current system...I want to say Cobbling, but I am not sure on that. Tillmont did fletching, which fucking rocks.

[Latrinsorm]

WHAT ABOUT AELOTOI QQQQQ

"Additional skill/failure checks could apply."

It's already really difficult to make perfects, and an additional skill check would have a multiplicative factor on the cost of construction (which is already nearly prohibitive).

I can't think of a reason for anyone but dwarves and city elves to have any pwnpwn stuff, really, but let's talk specifically about some of the suggestions:

Lighter weapons for humans: the trouble with this is that with the way weight modifiers work, there's usually very little difference between a very slight modifier and a goodly sized one. A weapon would have to have a base weight of 6 pounds or higher for there to be a difference between a .8 and a .95 modifier, for instance.

Erithi: if I'm not mistaken, the only purely Erithian weapon that can be forged is a sai. Anyone else can forge a perfect greatsword and someone can later get it altered to a no-daichi: should the perfectness be removed if the initial forger wasn't Erithian?

Elves: In general, I'm opposed to any AvD modifiers because AvD doesn't make a lick of sense to begin with. That said, it's too hinky with enchanting to have the mod applied to AS, so it might as well go to AvD.

Homoracial bonuses: It strains credulity to suppose that every elf has even seen elven weaponry (for instance), let alone been trained in its use specifically. Before this change, there's literally no difference between an elven falchion and a dwarven one. Do we want more retconning in GS?

.

There's also the issue of dwarves and city elves already having a bonus to forging/crafting to begin with, but so long as the bonuses are sufficiently slight I don't see a problem there (beyond the inevitable "double-dipping" whingefest, of course).

.

Finally, I don't think I'll ever understand the enormous crush the populace at large has with crit weighting.

[Fallen]

Fuck balls. I forgot them too. I hate all these extra races. Stupid Aelotoi.

[AestheticDeath]

Or maybe just make each modifier a skill that anyone can learn 1-2 of. Forging mechanics part duece..

[Fallen]

My responses will be in <<<,>>>'s


WHAT ABOUT AELOTOI QQQQQ

"Additional skill/failure checks could apply."


It's already really difficult to make perfects, and an additional skill check would have a multiplicative factor on the cost of construction (which is already nearly prohibitive).

<<<For mass sale, sure. I have had custom perfect weapons made for me on several occassions. It is your silver, your choice. Everyone wants to be different. If there is even a SLIGHT mechanical benefit, people will want it.>>>

I can't think of a reason for anyone but dwarves and city elves to have any pwnpwn stuff, really, but let's talk specifically about some of the suggestions:

<<<Again, it will be situational. As you first mentioned. Actually passing a SECOND check after already having made a perfect weapon is going to be a risk few crafters are going to make. Perhaps the lesser benefits will be easier to produce. Also, consider that I wished for some races to be able to combine their benefits with other races>>>>


Lighter weapons for humans: the trouble with this is that with the way weight modifiers work, there's usually very little difference between a very slight modifier and a goodly sized one. A weapon would have to have a base weight of 6 pounds or higher for there to be a difference between a .8 and a .95 modifier, for instance.

<<<It could be a flat weight reduction based upon the weapon type, as opposed to a modifier.>>>

Erithi: if I'm not mistaken, the only purely Erithian weapon that can be forged is a sai. Anyone else can forge a perfect greatsword and someone can later get it altered to a no-daichi: should the perfectness be removed if the initial forger wasn't Erithian?

<<<Then that rule could easily be changed. Or hell, leave it up to the merchant, and have only Erithians be able to use Erithi weapon glyphs with the exception of the Sai.>>>>

Elves: In general, I'm opposed to any AvD modifiers because AvD doesn't make a lick of sense to begin with. That said, it's too hinky with enchanting to have the mod applied to AS, so it might as well go to AvD.

<<<Same thought here, too. Without revision of the mechanics, a natural enchant bonus is more a hindrance than anything else>>>

Homoracial bonuses: It strains credulity to suppose that every elf has even seen elven weaponry (for instance), let alone been trained in its use specifically. Before this change, there's literally no difference between an elven falchion and a dwarven one. Do we want more retconning in GS?

<<<I didn't think to include it, but perhaps there could be IC training for the benefits. An NPC for each race that he can spend a bit more time gaining ranks with to have learned the craft. Would you be opposed to that?>>>

.

There's also the issue of dwarves and city elves already having a bonus to forging/crafting to begin with, but so long as the bonuses are sufficiently slight I don't see a problem there (beyond the inevitable "double-dipping" whingefest, of course).

<<<No opinion on that, really. Learning forging is learning forging is learning forging. I only care about the results once you have already mastered. Race ceases to be a factor once you actually master>>>

.

Finally, I don't think I'll ever understand the enormous crush the populace at large has with crit weighting.

<<<<Agreed. With Damage weighting being sucky, there is still the potential for a half-krol to get a decent weapon under my system. Half-krol forge bonus gives Light, Add Razern Damage weighting bonus gives somewhat, Add Half-krol usage bonus gives Decent. With a rare slab of Razern, half-krols could get a pretty good weapon if you like damage weighting.>>>

[Celephais]

Finally, I don't think I'll ever understand the enormous crush the populace at large has with crit weighting.
I agree that mechanically crit weighting isn't nearly as impressive as people seem to think it is, but I'm saying that since people are so in love with it there is obviously a clear biased in the suggested bonuses.

I also think it's rather balls to give mechanical benefits like DF & weighting to some races and something so absolutely worthless as pocketed hilts to other races. I think there should be ways to improve the roleplay quality of weapons, but to blanket say that this race is mechanical and that race is fluff is just bad... IMO... I do like the idea of making hilts fluff and blades mechanical, but I'd rather see each race get one of each.

[Fallen]

Feel free to add on additional benefits for the races. I would like to see people's views of races in terms of weaponry.

Further, I very much like the idea of weapons having a certain "Look" to them depending on what race/culture forged it. The SHOW would have to be generic enough to work for 1 look to apply to all weapons of that type, or even all types weapons in general. To avoid that headache, you could simply have a racial/cultural forging glyph.

The advantage of being a race with a "Fluff" benefit is that they are primarily in the Hilt, so that they can be combined with a race with a mechanical benefit primarily found on the blade. I mean, if you are going for absolute benefits from the skill, you are going to want the fluff along with the mechanics. Look at how often people will forgo buying the ultimate weapon of doom so they can instead have a pretty weapon, a scripted weapon, or one that has a certain look to it.

Finally, many people carry more than one weapon on them. As I said in my original post, I would definitely have my all-purpose dagger made by a dark elf, as it would fit my RP to carry such a weapon. I wouldn't care if it was crit weighted, or had a higher DF. I use it for skinning.

[Donquix]

Even if it makes RP sense for a dwarf, for instance, to make better weapons than other races...i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if you suddenly make 1 person who spent literally MONTHS in the forge mastering crafting/forging an inferior master by comparison, they won't be happy.

I know i wouldn't.

[Fallen]

I suppose. I simply do not agree that all races/professions should be equal in all things.

[Fallen]

Hmm. On that note, though. Let us try this idea.

Instead of each race having an innate bonus automatically attributed to them, you instead CHOOSE which race NPC you wish to train with to pick the benefit you wish to be able to apply to your weapon. You will learn easier/harder depending on which race is attempting to learn from which teacher.

[Fallen]

Let me ask this: Do people think race or culture should in any way factor into the qualities of the weapon produced? If so, to what extent?

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah it makes sense to me, even if people get their panties in a bunch. And we know Simu doesn't care when people are upset with changes, so they would go for it too.

[Celephais]

To not ruffle feathers I think you would have to go with an all fluff route, make people capable of forging "dwarven waraxes" and "elven longswords" etc, give them scripts, whatever, but something like AvD and DF and weighting... doesn't seem right to add after the fact.

It would be fair to me to have a special merchant work on dwarven weapons only, or the like, but any sort of hardset limit impossed after the fact that "halfings cannot make as good a DF weapon as dwarves" is going to piss people off.

[Anebriated]

I think the bonus should be to weapons of certain damage types(ie giants/dwarves better at crushing weapons, elves better at puncturing, halflings better at smaller weapons) and then have slightly different methods of forging for various bonus'(weighting, weight, AvD, etc) available to all races. Include race specific descriptions and/or scripts and I think itd be a pretty sweet system.

[Celephais]

That sounds pretty good to me... different races get a special glyph for a particular weapon... giantkin flamberge, dwarven axe, elven longsword, halfling broken toothpick, etc.

[Fallen]

Half-krolvin Cutlass, halfbreed dagger, human broadsword?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

It's actually a good idea to have special modifiers to the skill for each race, however, I agree that people would be pissed. I would be one of them as I slaved away on my human while forging and would be very unhappy if all that hard work meant less than another race doing it only after the modifications were released. Not to mention that people already feel like humans get the short end of the stick as it were.

If there were some way to make it more balanced and maybe add in more RP-functions (racial weapons ONLY craftable by a member of a specific race, for instance? I dunno just throwing out examples) it may be received better.

[Latrinsorm]

Race ceases to be a factor once you actually masterI always thought the racial bonuses were to construction, rather than achieving a rank.

I do like the compromise idea of training under a master of a specific race, but forging currently seems to be very much trial and error rather than guided learning. I dunno.

I forgot to mention this before: I'm also generally opposed to anything like "an elven glyph" or "a dwarven rune". If you want to throw a golden wyvern on there or something, great. The same goes for "an elven broadsword", really: what makes it noticeably elven to the casual observer?

[Celephais]

That kind of inconsistency is way past... there are all sorts of <racial> <nouns> you see racial runes, weapons, etc etc.

Would it look better to you if you saw a "what you would guess to be an elven crafted broadsword"? There are certain traits to weapons that if I saw them I would say "that's probably a dwarven axe"... I might not be able to recognize all dwarven made axes as such, and it might not have been forged by a dwarf, but is it really necessary to say "a dwarven styled axe"?

[Latrinsorm]

That kind of inconsistency is way past...FYI, I often slash windmills with my keys IRL.
There are certain traits to weapons that if I saw them I would say "that's probably a dwarven axe"... For instance?

[Celephais]

For instance?
Just the standard fair bullshit you see in fantasy art and movies. My view might be quite different from yours, but that's the beauty of the whole "best graphics card in existance" that GS employes, I picture a dwarven axe as kind of dull sheened, almost giving it a stone look, with smooth runes/knots carved out along the blade and into the haft.

[Sylvan Dreams]

When I think of giantmen, the word that comes to mind is "oversized". Oversized armor, shoes, plates, etc. I think that giantman forged weapons could be "oversized" and act like their counterpart. For example, a giantman-sized broadsword would be a greatsword to some races, but for a giantman it would require OHE skill. Of course, smaller races wouldn't be able to use it as such - if at all. I think for this bonus to apply, there should be some sort of strength requirement.

For Aelotoi, when they were enslaved, they wouldn't exactly have had access to an armory with a supply of swords to choose from. Their "weapons" would likely have been converted mundane items. Pitchforks, hoes, butcher's knives, any sort of kitchen knife. Their weapons could have mundane nouns to them.

For Half-Elves, I think that they should have a one time option of being able to choose which of their two "halves" their forging is aligned with. A half-elf should be able to choose from Human or Elven qualities, a half-dark elf Human or Dark elf and a half-Sylvan human or Sylvan qualities.

Additionally, I would like to see the possibility of having a custom-crafted weapon. In Cobbling, you need a measuring tape in order to craft shoes for that one specific person. The tape can then be used for future orders. I would like to see this type of system added to forging with some sort of additional bonus if the wielder is using the weapon. After all, this weapon is crafted *for them*. I also think that this would create more crafter-customer interaction/roleplay due to the process required.

[Anebriated]

Maybe then use a racial specific show for each one. Either way I think the bonus should be on top of the bonus for a perfectly crafted weapon. That way each race can bump a certain class of weapon up just a bit more, then give it the race's name and show.

Dwarves - THW, Polearms Axes

Halflings - small OHE's, small OHB's

Elves - OHB, THW

Humans - OHE, Polearms

Halfbreeds - Choose side, are you a fuckin elf or human.

etc.

[Donquix]

I suppose. I simply do not agree that all races/professions should be equal in all things.

I don't think they should either.

And had the system been designed like this from the ground up, i would be perfectly fine with it.

But it wasn't. People spent months and months doing nothing but forging. Gaining (essentially) nothing but forging skill. If dwarves, for instance, were superior at crafting weapons I would have mastered the forge on one of my dwarf characters, instead of my dirty half breed.

In other words...putting in massive sweeping changes based on race/class after the fact is fucking stupid, especially when it's something that takes literally hundreds of hours to master.

[Silvanostar]

I agree that race/culture shouldn't factor into the qualities of the weapon produced.

I would love to be able to forge weapons that have more than just +avd/df, but would Warden sign off on it? I got the impression that he considers any more mechanical upgrades to perfect weapons would make them too overpowered for current game mechanics.

An alternative to race/culture affecting weapon modifiers is have npcs made available so that once you master a weapon type, you can get more training from the npc so that you can add crit/flare/df/cultural mark etc similar to how guild skills work.

[Latrinsorm]

I picture a dwarven axe as kind of dull sheened, almost giving it a stone look, with smooth runes/knots carved out along the blade and into the haft.Then why not just make them "a dull-sheened broadsword" and put the carving part in as a show? My point is that if there really is something that makes a weapon dwarven, why don't we use that something instead of using a meaningless "dwarven"?
I think that giantman forged weapons could be "oversized" and act like their counterpart. For example, a giantman-sized broadsword would be a greatsword to some races, but for a giantman it would require OHE skill.This contradicts the overwhelming majority of existing gear (and all weapons) though. Every other weapon magically resizes itself, why would these be different?
I would like to see this type of system added to forging with some sort of additional bonus if the wielder is using the weapon.This one sounds nifto keen to me.
If dwarves, for instance, were superior at crafting weapons They are already, though, as are dark and fair elves.
putting in massive sweeping changes based on race/class after the fact is fucking stupidNone of this stuff is "massive".

[Celephais]

Then why not just make them "a dull-sheened broadsword" and put the carving part in as a show? My point is that if there really is something that makes a weapon dwarven, why don't we use that something instead of using a meaningless "dwarven"?
You missed my point, my point is that they can be ambigious and descriptive at the same time, so to either of us and our magical "best graphics card in the world" imaginations the item has come off as "dwarven". I agree it doesn't make sense in that it's not descriptive, but now your knocking on the door of describing everything in base terms...

When you see a dwarf in game it shouldn't use such a "meaningless" description as dwarf, it should say "you see a small legendary manlike being who is usually misshapen and ugly and skilled as a craftsman" (thank you meriam-webster). The fact is that it's a short descriptor that has no mechanical value, like any descriptor it means whatever you want it to mean... if it means that you picture it as an axe actually made out of a dwarf... well then...

[Sylvan Dreams]

This contradicts the overwhelming majority of existing gear (and all weapons) though. Every other weapon magically resizes itself, why would these be different?This one sounds nifto keen to me.They are already, though, as are dark and fair elves.None of this stuff is "massive".

There's a precedent for specific-race only items. There's armor that fits only the small races, so why not weapons, too? Besides, they would be "special", just like the "halfling-sized full plate" or whatever it's called. These weapons would be something like "an oversized (metal) broadsword".

[Latrinsorm]

The fact is that it's a short descriptor that has no mechanical valueAu contraire, all dwarves share a defining set of attributes: stat bonuses and GIs, for instance. I'm not wholly behind the idea that race should be immediately apparent, as a matter of fact, but at least the term has some meaning. The idea that dwarven will mean whatever any of us want it to mean leads irreversibly to contradictions: this is not something we should be encouraging!
There's a precedent for specific-race only items.The exception that proves the rule, which is why I used "overwhelming majority".
There's armor that fits only the small races, so why not weapons, too?I've never been of the position that GMs never do anything wrong. It was wrong to do then and it would be more wrong to do it more now. (By wrong, of course, I mean "inconsistent".)

I feel that I should note: I'm not for consistency for its own sake. I am for consistency when the rationale for the proposed change makes no reference as to why we should generate inconsistency.

[Stanley Burrell]

It would be cool if the base noun of a certain weapon base could be modified by using the vice after you've finished smithing a weapon. I dunno how race would specifically tie into this (or perhaps how far along one is in the art of forging + crafting) but I'd still like the option of being able to do something spiffy like LEAN VICE WITH TOPOROK/BALTA/etc. once I've pieced together a perfect handaxe, etc.

[Stanley Burrell]

I'm also not so sure about a weapon gaining weighting if it's forged from a flaring metal, as in if that would even work, mechanically.

Wonder if there'll be racial mining benefits... Whenever.

[Anebriated]

Well we cant really say never anymore because animate dead was released....

[shad0ws0ngs]

Erithi: if I'm not mistaken, the only purely Erithian weapon that can be forged is a sai. Anyone else can forge a perfect greatsword and someone can later get it altered to a no-daichi: should the perfectness be removed if the initial forger wasn't Erithian?

sadly, only erithian weapon, specifically, is sai.. but you can make equivalents and get them altered.. I.E. scimitar = kama, dagger = tanto/kozuka, short sword = wakizashi .... the only thing that CAN'T be made at all... is dun dun dun.. the katana. If anything like this went through I would say.. if erithi could make katana.. and only erithi... I'd be insanely happy, stop being an asshole(most of the time) about non-erithi using katana and saying 'erithi have wings right?'..

I like the ideas overall, though, Fallen.

Kakeshi/Malkave

[senorgordoburro]

For all of the races to be happy about changes, the best way to go about it would probably be like an apprectice type program where you train under a Master Forger of the different races. And you could set it up to where each town would have the race that is native to that region of Elanthia's Master such as Illistim would have Elves. But it is true that Simu doesn't mind if people are upset by their changes, like was said earlier. I'm a fan of the idea, I think what would be cool though is if you went with your original idea, you could also combine some of the skills by having one race construct the hilt, and another construct the blade.

-Matt

[shad0ws0ngs]

There is already a place that would be perfect for erithians, even though they have no homeland, yet. There is an erithi weaponsmith between zul and illistim.. that would work well, I think. Zibiski, I think his name is.. that or his stupid monkey is named that.