Another stat / skill suggestions thread...

[evolart]

I learned some good stuff from the other thread....but wanted to see what suggestions could be made for me. I'm trying to figure out the best armor, skills, and stats while I'm new. I'm using a faenor rapier, studded leather, a mesh coif, some bracers, some leg guards, and a reinforced shield.

I'd like for my rogue to be able to pick / disarm at least his own boxes, dish out a fair amount of damage, and be able to avoid a good amount of damage but be able to take a little if he gets hit.

Stats:
Strength (STR): 77 (13) ... 77 (13)
Constitution (CON): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Dexterity (DEX): 67 (13) ... 67 (13)
Agility (AGI): 72 (21) ... 72 (21)
Discipline (DIS): 71 (5) ... 71 (5)
Aura (AUR): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Logic (LOG): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Intuition (INT): 52 (1) ... 52 (1)
Wisdom (WIS): 75 (12) ... 75 (12)
Influence (INF): 42 (1) ... 42 (1)

Skills:
Ferwil (at level 5), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 45 9
Shield Use.........................| 45 9
Combat Maneuvers...................| 35 7
Edged Weapons......................| 45 9
Ambush.............................| 45 9
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 45 9
Dodging............................| 45 9
Arcane Symbols.....................| 10 2
Magic Item Use.....................| 10 2
Survival...........................| 40 8
Disarming Traps....................| 62 13
Picking Locks......................| 62 13
Stalking and Hiding................| 50 10
Perception.........................| 30 6
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 15 3
First Aid..........................| 30 6
Trading............................| 10 2
Training Points: 5 Phy 79 Mnt

[ELO]

Take off the bracers, and the leg guards, since studded leather already protects those areas, then take off the studded leather because you're not ready for it yet (at 9 ranks of armor).

The coif needs to go, too.

[Izzy]

I learned some good stuff from the other thread....but wanted to see what suggestions could be made for me. I'm trying to figure out the best armor, skills, and stats while I'm new. I'm using a faenor rapier, studded leather, a mesh coif, some bracers, some leg guards, and a reinforced shield.

I'd like for my rogue to be able to pick / disarm at least his own boxes, dish out a fair amount of damage, and be able to avoid a good amount of damage but be able to take a little if he gets hit.

Stats:
Strength (STR): 77 (13) ... 77 (13)
Constitution (CON): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Dexterity (DEX): 67 (13) ... 67 (13)
Agility (AGI): 72 (21) ... 72 (21)
Discipline (DIS): 71 (5) ... 71 (5)
Aura (AUR): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Logic (LOG): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Intuition (INT): 52 (1) ... 52 (1)
Wisdom (WIS): 75 (12) ... 75 (12)
Influence (INF): 42 (1) ... 42 (1)

Skills:
Ferwil (at level 5), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 45 9
Shield Use.........................| 45 9
Combat Maneuvers...................| 35 7
Edged Weapons......................| 45 9
Ambush.............................| 45 9
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 45 9
Dodging............................| 45 9
Arcane Symbols.....................| 10 2
Magic Item Use.....................| 10 2
Survival...........................| 40 8
Disarming Traps....................| 62 13
Picking Locks......................| 62 13
Stalking and Hiding................| 50 10
Perception.........................| 30 6
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 15 3
First Aid..........................| 30 6
Trading............................| 10 2
Training Points: 5 Phy 79 Mnt

If you're wearing studded and all those accessories you're highly undertrained for you armor. Basically, you have brig penalties right now (unless the coif you're wearing isn't really armor, then the penalties might be slightly lower). This means that to train off oll the hinderances/penalties, you're about 21 ranks in armor short. So, unless you need the coif/arm and leg guards for RP, take them off because they're only hurting you. You should really just wear double leathers for now, then move to brig at 25-30 ranks of armor.

You're spreading your points out too far, too. You're not even 2x in your core weapon skills, which is a no no. 2x is (2 times your level) + 2. So you should have 12 ranks in the core skills: ohe, hiding, pick/disarm/perception. Increase pick/disarm to 2.5x if you really want to pick all of your own boxes. 1x (6 ranks) in armor, dodge, combat maneuvers, physical fitness, ambush, and shield use are pretty minimal too. Increase as possible(ie, pumping out armor ranks to get into brig/chain early is a good plan.) Closer to 2x combat maneuvers and ambush is ideal.

Alternating MIU/Arcane would be ok. Or work on one up to 20ish ranks, then bring the other up. First aid/trading are questionable. Not exceptionally usefull skills. Either train in them, or don't. Don't dabble :).

For the love of god, keep to a regular plan!! Actually, I don't really care, but something in my brain twitches when it sees 9 ranks at level 5. If it isn't on a schedule of .5x, 1x, 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, or 3x, then it must be wrong ;).

Ok, so for actual numbers, at level 5 you should have (in my opinion, obviously):
Picking: 15 ranks, ~2.5x
Disarm: 15 ranks, ~2.5x
Perception: 12 ranks, 2x
Armor: 12 ranks, 2x
Edged: 12 ranks, 2x
Combat maneuvers: 12 ranks, 2x
Hiding: 12 ranks, 2x
Ambush: 6 ranks, 1x
Dodge: 6 ranks, 1x
Physical fitness: 6, put extra points here until you have max hitpoints, then continue with 1x.
Climbing: 5 ranks, stop for a while
Swimming: 5 ranks, stop for a while
Still have points: MOC, 5 ranks, 15 ranks, or 30 ranks are good goals.
Arcane symbols and MIU are also useful. Getting up to spell 404 is helpful, but expensive and not necessary for self picking a lot of the time.

I hope my long post has something you can use. Clearly the best way to train is how you're comfortable, I just wanted to offer some suggestions from my experience.

[evolart]

Very helpful thank you! Quick question...I was about to buy a mithril buckler...is this going to give me a penalty over my current reinforced shield?

[Some Rogue]

Ok, so for actual numbers, at level 5 you should have (in my opinion, obviously):
Picking: 15 ranks, ~2.5x
Disarm: 15 ranks, ~2.5x
Perception: 12 ranks, 2x
Armor: 12 ranks, 2x
Edged: 12 ranks, 2x
Combat maneuvers: 12 ranks, 2x
Hiding: 12 ranks, 2x
Ambush: 6 ranks, 1x
Dodge: 6 ranks, 1x
Physical fitness: 6, put extra points here until you have max hitpoints, then continue with 1x.
Climbing: 5 ranks, stop for a while
Swimming: 5 ranks, stop for a while
Still have points: MOC, 5 ranks, 15 ranks, or 30 ranks are good goals.
Arcane symbols and MIU are also useful. Getting up to spell 404 is helpful, but expensive and not necessary for self picking a lot of the time.

I hope my long post has something you can use. Clearly the best way to train is how you're comfortable, I just wanted to offer some suggestions from my experience.

You forgot to add shield training.

[Some Rogue]

Very helpful thank you! Quick question...I was about to buy a mithril buckler...is this going to give me a penalty over my current reinforced shield?

It depends. Mithril is +5 to your defense..but depending on your shield vs dodge training, the actual size of the shield (whether it's small, medium, etc.) compared to your current one, you may see more or less than 5 points added to your defense.

[Sthrockmorton]

With only 1x in dodge, he'll want a larger shield (assuming he trains in shields at all). A +5 buckler will actually yield no DS gain for him over a basic reinforced shield, as bucklers have a -15% modifier. The only people who should really use bucklers are those that 2x or 3x dodge and 1x in shield. Or maybe those more concerned with vulnerability to most manuever attacks. IMO

https://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/armorshields.asp#small


(Shield Ranks + (STR bonus/4) + (DEX Bonus/4))/(1.5) = Base Value

Base Value * Stance Modifier * (100% + Shield Size Modifier) = DS bonus

Modifiers : Small -15%, Medium 0%, Large +15%, Tower +30%

[evolart]

Aye...after reading the stuff on the main GS website about shields I got a mithril heater instead. Should give me +7.725 to DS if I calculated it right.

Wearing double leathers and none of the other crap now. I didn't have enough physical points to bring CM up to 12. I've got a crap ton of mental points that are annoying the hell out of me and I hate converting them into debt. Here my refined skills:

Ferwil (at level 5), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 58 12
Shield Use.........................| 58 12
Combat Maneuvers...................| 40 8
Edged Weapons......................| 58 12
Ambush.............................| 30 6
Physical Fitness...................| 30 6
Dodging............................| 30 6
Arcane Symbols.....................| 15 3
Magic Item Use.....................| 15 3
Disarming Traps....................| 70 15
Picking Locks......................| 70 15
Stalking and Hiding................| 58 12
Perception.........................| 58 12
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 15 3

[Sthrockmorton]

Unless you pick up a massive number of spells/MIU/Arcane symbols down the road. Start getting used to the idea of converting MTP's.

[evolart]

But whats the point if you must then auto-convert MTP's? You will not get your beautiful PTPs.....for awhile that way. What can I do to my stats so that I get more PTP's? Anything?

*edit* Wow what a world of difference those small changes made in being able to actually hit stuff....

[Sthrockmorton]

You'll get the same amount of TP's you normally would, they just come in a different form.

If you constantly use more PTP's than MTP's (thus converting) then...
Instead of getting 40 PTP's and 40 MTP's per level. You'll be getting 0 PTP's and 120 MTP's (40 MTP + 2x 40 PTP's).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, and the round numbers are just for ease of understanding.

[evolart]

Ah I thought when converting them back to PTP's you actually lost some overal PTP's? If not then it's not soo bad =)

[Sthrockmorton]

Yeah, having a large sum of converted TP's happens to most professions. An older Pure (spellcaster) usually has thousands of converted TP's.

[evolart]

How do my stats look guys?

[Sthrockmorton]

What race are you? That'll make a significant difference

Here were my level 0 stats. They're set to be all 100's at cap except for Influence, which will be like 73 or so.

Level 0 Stats for Kontii, Human Rogue

Strength (STR): 59
Constitution (CON): 70
Dexterity (DEX): 62
Agility (AGI): 49
Discipline (DIS): 73
Aura (AUR): 82
Logic (LOG): 73
Intuition (INT): 59
Wisdom (WIS): 88
Influence (INF): 45

[evolart]

I'm a half-elf and I'm planning for about level 50...I've used one of the stat cruncher program but it gives me some stupid numbers like start with 23 str pshhhhhhhh

[Izzy]

You forgot to add shield training.

Heh, so I did. Probably because exactly zero of my characters use shields. If it isn't one big weapon, or two medium ones, I won't swing it. (Bows are ok too).

[Sthrockmorton]

I belive this is what your stats will look like at 100, not bad. Let me know if you'd like to optimize any specific ones and I'll tell you what you need to adjust...



STR 100
CON 98
DEX 100
AGL 100
DIS 95
AUR 94
LOG 98
INT 92
WIS 88
INF 75

[Sablemane]

Well, there's two schools of thoughts here. One believes in maximizing your stats by level 100 (which is, in my opinion, a rather lofty goal since none of my 6 chars ever even made it to 40 before something came up). The other school is to go 90's on all your primary stats (in this case, STR, DEX, AGI, INT) go 50-70 on AUR, DIS, LOG, and WIS, and drop it down
to 20 for influence (why do you need to be charismatic if you plan on being hidden most of the time?)

I argue for the second school of thought because, as you have seen, it makes a HUGE difference in having high primary stats when you are younger. You will find your gameplay to be that much more fun... and with the right regimen you can actually hunt up and achieve levels faster than the "maximizing stats by level 100" folks, who are probably having trouble hitting roltons at level 2.

My current char, a Half-Elf, has 91-96 in his primary stats at level 13 (started at 90), since he is training to be a pure-ambushing assassin (I don't say "rogue", he has never picked a pocket nor a box in his life) His EXP absorption and collection is decent at 70 for DIS and 68 for LOG. His AUR is 70, which is ok if you're not planning on using spells anyhow. INF is at 31 (it went up 11 on its own) and CON is at 68 (from 59 starting point). Currently he can hunt and kill thunder/mongrel/hill trolls with relative ease, thanks to 2 weapons training and 3x dodge and hiding, and if you study your bestiary you'll know that those critters are above level 13. I have far more fun than other rogues who go the stat-max route and must stick with weaker opponents.

It's your call, but as a new player I'd definitely prefer to have more power, earlier the better, if only to enjoy the relative freedom of the hunt without getting your head bashed in by a hobgoblin at the 8th training. Hope this helped!

Shen Ye's player

[CrystalTears]

Here's one school of thought.. paragraphs are your friends.

[AestheticDeath]

Placing stats for 100's at cap doesn't hinder you as much as you might think.

Not if you know what your doing. It also makes a big difference in what race or profession you are.

But more often than not, properly training your character can more than make up for stats not being near maxed early on.

One of the biggest difficulties would just be RT from a low STR stat. And thats not that big a thing. Just annoying. If you hunt in a group, its good.

[evolart]

Don't tower shields weigh a lot more? Wouldn't that be a bad thing?

[AestheticDeath]

Not always. There are some light towers, and some very heavy bucklers.

[evolart]

Christ....I cannot seem to keep up on CM. Should I be 2Xing at the beginning of a level or by the end of that level? I assume I should be at 2x at the beginning right?

It requires 24 converted mental points for each train in it.