Ranged Warrior

[Cademus]

Just spinning some ideas out there. What would be wrong with a ranged warrior fighting from the open as a warrior should be ! Further, is there even an advantage over the ranger/rogue variations? The extra weighting from hiding perhaps?

[Anebriated]

Sung(I think) did this back in the day and did extremely well. IIRC its easier to use a shorter bow(short or composite) and wear heavy armor. Can still get a good amount of redux. No hiding.

[AestheticDeath]

People keep on saying you get weighting or DS pushdown with ranged weapons from hiding.

I was under the impression neither existed for ranged weapons.

Some people want to chime in on this?

[Latrinsorm]

A significant advantage to sniping is not being subject to any targeted spell attacks, which by and large are the most dangerous attack for any square.

Of course, with ranged you also have the overwhelming +500 to looking like a nancy, but that's not insurmountable.

[AestheticDeath]

yeah - but do you know if sniping gains any kind of DS pushdown or crit weighting?

[Cademus]

All I know is that sighting gives you aiming and not crit weighting. If aiming with a bow from hiding does not give you a DS pushdown or crit weighting then I retract my previous statements that ranged is overpowered (I was misinformed). I'm really interested in what a veteran ranged user has to say about this.

[Latrinsorm]

yeah - but do you know if sniping gains any kind of DS pushdown or crit weighting?I have no information (beyond all ranged's negation of parry DS).

[AestheticDeath]

Right, ranged negates parry DS. But it does so from the open as well as from hiding.

I might do some testing on my own later. Though it won't be 'real' tests.

[Kitsun]

Being a warrior/archer kinda wastes their weapon bonding ability. Also neither perception nor ambush is cheap for a warrior to train in and no spells to augment the attack power.

[TheEschaton]

Seems like no. Ambush seems to be the same from open as in hiding. I even waited for the boar to get back up. This character is a 1.5x ambush trained ranger, I believe.

>fire boar
You nock a wooden arrow in your yew long bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a massive black boar!
AS: +296 vs DS: +157 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +3 = +165
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Strike pierces thigh!
The black boar is knocked to the ground!
The scintillating silver light surrounding the arrow fades some.
The wooden arrow ricochets away from a massive black boar, landing nearby.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
A massive black boar grunts as he scrambles to his feet!
>

>unhide
>
You do not believe anyone noticed you slip out of hiding.

>get 1 my arrow
You remove a single wooden arrow from a bundle of wooden arrows.

>fire boar
You nock a wooden arrow in your yew long bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a massive black boar!
AS: +296 vs DS: +157 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +37 = +199
... and hit for 62 points of damage!
Blow shatters knee and severs lower leg!
The black boar squeals loudly as he collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors his mangled left hind leg.
The scintillating silver light surrounding the arrow fades some.
The wooden arrow sticks in a massive black boar's left leg!
Roundtime: 3 sec.

[fallenSaint]

No you don't get a DS Pushdown with Ranged what you do get is Bolt attacks which in general provokes a lower defense than melee attacks would. Advantage here is you get that weather your hide or not.

[TheEschaton]

Oh, I meant to add this: I have a mutant warrior who does THW/Ranged, and does amazing. I actually rarely use the THW, thinking of dropping it to pick up some other things, going pure ranged.

He is also one of the only warriors who assesses ranged items.

-TheE-

[AestheticDeath]

thats what i thought - and you dont get crit weighting with ranged either do you?

[TheEschaton]

"Sighting" is the equivalent of weighting, and as far as I can tell, no. That bow I was using was yew though, so that's naturally sighted.

[Khariz]

thats what i thought - and you dont get crit weighting with ranged either do you?

It's possible, but the weighting has to be on the arrow, not the bow.

[TheEschaton]

Oh, but yeah, sighting isn't the same as weighting.

[Cademus]

Crit weighted arrows don't exist however, and I doubt anyone will claid weight an arrow specifically to hunt with. It would be game breaking apart from other things.

[AestheticDeath]

Well on the weighting side, I was more talking about you cannot get crit weighting from ambush with ranged like you would with melee weapons. I was under the impression you could not.

But I keep hearing people say you can...

Just spinning some ideas out there. What would be wrong with a ranged warrior fighting from the open as a warrior should be ! Further, is there even an advantage over the ranger/rogue variations? The extra weighting from hiding perhaps?
Just trying to clarify everything.

[Stretch]

You do get a DS pushdown from hiding.

Or at least -- you did a year and change ago when I tested it.

[Sypher]

stretch- is your rogue that you play human? And he's ranged right?

[TheEschaton]

That clip I just posted was from an hour ago.

Edit: And didn't they make weighted arrows at some point? Barbed arrows of some sort?


-TheE-

[fallenSaint]

Again there is no pushdown for Archery as the clip posted proved, and yes they did merchant off crit weighted arrows at several points. Bow's get sighting which I personally think is worth plenty. As far as I'm aware we don't get any crit weighting bonus from Ambush but that one I'm not nearly as positive on.

[Anebriated]

Yes at one point they released crit weighted arrows.

[CaptContagious]

barb-tipped arrows are crit weighted.
razor sharp/cruelly barbed/barbed headed arrows are damage weighted.

Advantages to being a Ranged Warrior -
* 3 sec RT firing a long bow
* Bolt weapon vs bolt DS
* Swinging the bow/crossbow if in a pinch can be more powerful coming from a warrior


Disadvantages -
* little to no hiding. no sniping

[Danical]

SUNDER SHIELD!!!

You can put a creature into RT (doesn't work the same on players) with this maneuver. It's only a 3 RT maneuver too!

Also, a creature without a shield is going to get decimated by someone with ranged. Easily one of the most overlooked CMans.

[Celephais]

Again there is no pushdown for Archery as the clip posted proved
This isn't true... that clip did not "prove" it... pushdown generally lowers the defensive stance of an individual. The proper test would be to have someone in stance defensive be fired upon by someone hiding, and then not hiding. It could also be a skill based/random issue where you don't always get the same pushdown.

If the boar was in offensive stance for both strikes, then the clip showed nothing.

[TheEschaton]

Doesn't Sunder Shield require a weapon? If so, of what use is it to a warrior using ranged in the offhand?

Edit: And I'll redo the experiment with characters later on this afternoon.

[Celephais]

Doesn't Sunder Shield require a weapon? If so, of what use is it to a warrior using ranged in the offhand?

Edit: And I'll redo the experiment with characters later on this afternoon.
Can you sunder shield with an arrow? (sounds stupid but... this is GS)
Edit:nevermind-

Other Requirements: A weapon capable of sundering a shield (not a rapier, whip, dagger, or brawling weapon).
Guess you'd either have to pull the weapon out, sunder, sheath, fire... or if the bow works... swap, sunder,swap, fire.

If you wanted to be really cool: (because of how cheap weapon training is) train in throwing and ranged (& edged for DS).... bond to an axe.
Bow in left, axe in right, sunder, throw axe, fire until axe comes back, throw etc.

[Danical]

My warrior used to sunder with a spear and hurl to the right eye immediately afterward.

Super fun happy times.

Also, you might think about training in THWs in addition to ranged. It's cheap and it gives you the option of doing well on plate instead of plinking with the bow.

[Insodus]

I used a THW/Ranged build on my warrior for years, added a lot of versatility to him.

Plus, if you dont plan on ambushing, all you need is perception training for AS/DS bonus with a bow and aiming from the open. Perception is something people train in anyway!

Very useful IMHO, and neat for roleplay.

Not to mention the rarity of being able to assess bows.

[Cademus]

Dexterity bonus + Ranged Weapons skill + ((Perception ranks - 40)/4 + (Ambushing ranks - 40)/4) + (Bow enchant + Arrow enchant) + kneeling bonus

You can't gain more then +2 to AS from Ranged + Perception + Ambushing skills per level?... Wait so does this mean I've been doubling in ambushing all this time for nothing? Does ambushing do nothing to my AS/Aiming if I'm already doubling in perception and ranged weapon use?

[AestheticDeath]

Your confused somewhere.


dex bonus
ranged weapons skill
bow and arrow enchants up to 10x total

perception -40/4, and ambush -40/4 with a max of +80 AS total from each of these combined

which means more than +2 AS per level if you do 2x in ranged, perception and ambush

Once you hit the pre-requisite of 40 ranks in each of the secondary skills, you wind up getting +1 AS per level while doubling those skills, added to the 2x ranged, gives you 3 AS per level from those 3 skills. Plus all the other static bonus's from dex, bow/arrow, society and spells

[Cademus]

Ah, fantastic I thought as much.