Spinners

[Drunken Durfin]

Yaros says, "My spinner is currently set to allow anyone to be selected, excluding those recently chosen by this spinner. There are no time restrictions. Good luck everyone."

I always suspected those things were rigged...

[Mistomeer]

There's something wrong with them. I have a character that ALWAYS gets picked while I have other characters that never get chosen.

[LazyBard]

the title of this thread is so promising with the content so disappointing. Sometimes being a dirty bastard is a bad thing.

[Skeeter]

were you expecting this?

http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~sillke/Twister/spinner/1966.jpg

[Gan]

I was thinking this...

https://customwheel.com/customwheel.com/images/XS-03%20on%20156%20New.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

I saw someone ridin' spinnas for the first time in my life when I went to Cambridge a few days ago.

[Skeeter]

they're all over the place here. Of course I live in Dayton.

[LazyBard]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spinner

[Snapp]

Wow, that's a new one to me.

And I've always thought there was something wrong/rigged with those (GS)spinners too.

[Stanley Burrell]

the title of this thread is so promising with the content so disappointing. Sometimes being a dirty bastard is a bad thing.

We won't tell anyone you're referring to definition #21 ;)

I've also seen them (GemStone spinners, dammit) being set to select Premium members only, too.

I think, mebbe, the merchants don't reset them always and this can lead to mayhem and confusion! When Sukara used to visit the Landing, on and off she would have the carrot set up for Premium only characters, but might've advertised it halfway through a room selection.

[Dwarven Empath]

I never get picked. It has to be rigged.

[Gan]

I seem to remember being at merchant events where the merchant could adjust the spinner not to choose those who had already been picked. Thats why I've always doubted the neutrality and random'ability of the spinners used. After all, its written in code that can be modified in my opinion.

[Friendpatine]

Interesting that someone actually announced that they'd modified their spinner. I have been virtual-shouted at about suggesting that these could be rigged, but as it has been pointed out, it is code, and yes, code can be modified. If you don't believe that, just watch the next several sessions you attend and keep score. It's incredible how often the same people get chosen, not only within one event, but across multiple events. Descriptive statistics by their very definition do not lie. The truth doesn't hurt but it is f'ing annoying.

[Stuck up Elf]

I like spinners better than the old school join random noun that is a list. Then again my char has been picked 3 times this EG.

[Celephais]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n30/shadowyinzer/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

[Warriorbird]

You're more likely to get spun with an active RPA. You're less likely to get spun with warnings, particularly recent. Those're the only modifications that are in there.

As far as favoritism goes...there's a much higher incidence of the opposite. Ever have a merchant suddenly stop working right before they get to you? Maybe they don't like you. This goes double if you're Tsin.

http://www.gadgetgarden.nl/archives/spin0.jpg

[AestheticDeath]

As far as favoritism goes...there's a much higher incidence of the opposite. Ever have a merchant suddenly stop working right before they get to you? Maybe they don't like you. This goes double if you're Tsin.

Heh your kidding right? Tsin gets more service than a 2 cent whore.

Tsin: Hey I got this lightened 9 times last night!
Tsin: Hey I got 7 spots at this merchant and nothing left to do since I already got like 600 tonight... wanna buy a spot?

I wish I could get the number of services he gets at merchants.

[Warriorbird]

That's due to most merchants not acting in that particular fashion. I imagine he also has a much greater number of merchants running off when he gets there than most.

[Sthrockmorton]

I just love the people that show up for 2 merchants all festival, and then bitch that they didnt get picked for one of the 10 spots with 80 people there.

[Drew]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n30/shadowyinzer/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg


Seriously.

[Warriorbird]

http://www.youtube.com/v/HtkOLRuAXDY

[Friendpatine]

I personally haven't had much trouble at all getting done what I want done, but it struck me that someone actually announced that they were modifying their spinner, hence suggesting that it is, in fact, being re-coded somewhere on the back-end, rather than being completely random as some folks will scream relentlessly. Couple that with having seen particular people get picked measurably more often than others, and it becomes suspect. Haven't attempted to win an alter anytime recently - it's just something I gradually noticed over some time and spin-driven merchanting is often frustrating and time-consuming because of it.

All things being equal, though, I do, by far, prefer this method to the "betcha can't find me!" method of merchanting.

[Warriorbird]

Spinner based services are usually frustrating because there's too many fucking idiots. It has nothing to do with the system. People just like having something to blame. The fresh RPA/Warning thing does play a role as does the fact that some people walk in with 10 accounts.

[AestheticDeath]

I have never heard of the RPA/warning thing. Is there some proof?

[Warriorbird]

I have all the proof I need. I'm not about to share how or in what context that proof is in. Disbelieve it if you want to.

[thefarmer]

[QUOTE=Friendpatine;647019]I personally haven't had much trouble at all getting done what I want done, but it struck me that someone actually announced that they were modifying their spinner, hence suggesting that it is, in fact, being re-coded somewhere on the back-end, rather than being completely random as some folks will scream relentlessly.QUOTE]

I hear that all the time.

Lots of merchants I've been to have said their spinner will pick anyone, or exclude those who've had work done from the merchant before.

Though, it's still implied that among that group (The ones not having received work prior) the spinner will randomly choose.

I dunno why this is news to anyone.

Edit: Annd having pre-set options on a spinner doesn't necessarily mean it's being re-coded on the spot to pick someone in particular.

[Drew]

Do you people really believe that in the spinner code there's a mechanism that lets the GM playing the merchant enter the names of characters they like so they have a better chance or guaranteed chance of getting picked? Not only that but every GM who has had their NDA expire (all those who quit more than two years ago) forgot to mention it?

[Warriorbird]

Some people believe that. It's pretty stupid. If a GM wants to cheat and give their friend stuff they're not likely to be spinning.

[Drew]

Well I don't believe the RPA/warning thing either. Seems just as unlikely, unless I saw some kind of evidence to the contrary.

[Stunseed]

Meh, I can see it.

"You feel extremely lucky"
"You feel extremely unlucky"

RPA/Warning, I could see the tangent being connected.

[Warriorbird]

:chuckles: Believe what you want.

[Drew]

Thank you for that response, I'm glad not believing something you throw out there with no evidence or support is chuckle-worthy.

[Warriorbird]

Exactly how I prefer it to be.

:)

It means time is passing. I like that.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Is there any basis at all for that RPA/Warning theory? That sounds like some complete nonsense that someone made up.

[Stuck up Elf]

Is there any basis at all for that RPA/Warning theory? That sounds like some complete nonsense that someone made up.

From my first hand experience. I am a nobody with no rpa's and a send to watch my ooc'ness on the amulet and I have been picked 3 times in three days.

In an event with less than 50% of the total GS who full its very likely some will get picked more and others less.

[Some Rogue]

Is there any basis at all for that RPA/Warning theory? That sounds like some complete nonsense that someone made up.


He has "sources". How dare you question them??


:tool:

[Skeeter]

I was in a room of at least 100 people when the same person got "randomly" picked 3x in a row.

[StrayRogue]

Spinner based services are usually frustrating because there's too many fucking idiots. It has nothing to do with the system. People just like having something to blame. The fresh RPA/Warning thing does play a role as does the fact that some people walk in with 10 accounts.


Totally agree. Never had a problem getting lucky with a spinner and I'm pretty outspoken about my disliking of many GS things.

[Fallen]

I think sometimes merchants may accidently F up when setting up their spinners, or the actual programming for the spinners may go haywire(sp), but no, I do not believe they are rigged.

[Latrinsorm]

Descriptive statistics by their very definition do not lie. The truth doesn't hurt but it is f'ing annoying.One person getting more than another doesn't of itself suggest a non-random spinner, though.

[GS4Khistian]

Do you people really believe that in the spinner code there's a mechanism that lets the GM playing the merchant enter the names of characters they like so they have a better chance or guaranteed chance of getting picked? Not only that but every GM who has had their NDA expire (all those who quit more than two years ago) forgot to mention it?

Last EG I had a merchant pick my character with the spinner after I explained that he was moved from the room and lost his place in line.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Last EG I had a merchant pick my character with the spinner after I explained he was moved from the room and lost his place in line.


What?

[Friendpatine]

One person getting more than another doesn't of itself suggest a non-random spinner, though.

No, can't argue with that particular statement. It has just looked to me over time like multiple specific persons have gotten more than other people on enough occasions to form a pattern or suggest that something is awry (no, not re-coding "on-the-spot" for your favorite alter-whore, but some type of code modification). I haven't felt that I have missed out - I just view the method as suspect.

Or, maybe the universe is just a pissy ho-bitch to some people for no particular reason. I guess there is lots of statistical evidence to suggest that may be the case too.

[GS4Khistian]

What?

The spinners can be controlled.

[DevonG]

>>And I've always thought there was something wrong/rigged with those (GS)spinners too.

Man those things are so fuckin rigged, a merchant goofed blatantly today and i'll find the log'n post it.

I even assist requested it to say how fuckin rigged it was.

But like a GM, dunno what I was expectin from them to say, The truth for once?

Anyways what had happen was, after 3 rounds, the spinner landed on one person three times, and two other people twice out of a fuckin room like 40.

My favorite comment from Perezz went something like this (after tellin him about my educational background.)
"Well to find your odds just take the total and put yourself in front of it."
1:40 he was tryin to tell me.

Now I know it's not improbable but seriously

-Perigourd
-Missoni
-Skydragon

seemed to be favored by that needle, might even put Meureii? on that list.

Basically I wish they would admit that they DO HAVE the option to make it random, they also do have the option to make it rigged. (Like my rigged dice)

Because seriously if it's a GM who plays favorite I wish they would just say, "Fuck you all, only my friends can stay, have a good day."

anyhow, my thoughts on the subject. Pretty pissed about them "spinners".

[Warriorbird]

Having gotten a look at what goes on behind the scenes...there's no "control" on the spinners (other than the small effect I mentioned). If a GM wants to cheat and give somebody an alter they'll do it other ways (unannounced merchants being their best bet.)

Why would they, though? Alters are pretty much worthless these days. If you're looking for cheating, look for stuff that actually matters... item duplication and stuff like that.

[ELO]

I even assist requested it to say how fuckin rigged it was.

But like a GM, dunno what I was expectin from them to say, The truth for once?


Why would you assist about that? What the fuck is a GH going to do?

That's why they have feedback.

[7Seconds]

>-Perigourd
>-Missoni


You know this is actualy kind of funny, but if I'm recalling right, nearly every merchant spinning that I've seen the above two at has(nearly)always resulted in both of them getting spun, from rooms of 20 to rooms of near 100.

[7Seconds]

I just love the people that show up for 2 merchants all festival, and then bitch that they didnt get picked for one of the 10 spots with 80 people there.

funny this, I haunted the festival for most of the week, ended up getting in on over 30 sittings, and at least half that spinners where used... The only reason I got any service was because of room order and being up @ 3am staring at one of those bloody orb maps.

7 days and over 50 hours at EG, total alters = 2. this said, I will second the call that even though spinners are well crap, they are a whole lot better smelling crap then morphing lists.

[justincredible]

Spinners are fixed I don't care what anyone says...

Speaking to Mikoguchi, Adelie exclaims, "I'm shocked. My hairstick still isn't picking up on your ugly!"

Adelie glances at Mikoguchi and folds her arms over her chest.
>chuckle
You chuckle.
>
Adelie nods to Jozette.
>
Bralledar cackles!
>
Jozette nods to Adelie.
>
Mikoguchi says, "Im just as shocked."
>
Spindor grins.
>
Jozette waves to Adelie.
>
Jozette just went west.
>
Mikoguchi frowns.
>
Mikoguchi gazes at his reflection in the white oak mirror.
>
Adelie exclaims, "Something must be wrong!"
>
Mikoguchi nods.
>
Nilandia whispers something to Spindor.
>
Bralledar darkly says, "It knows an impossible subject ."
>
Mikoguchi says, "All of these uglier people keep showing up."
>
Delicieuse says, "He doesn't look that ugly to me."
>
Jasnel giggles at Bralledar!

You snicker.
>
* Mohrgan just bit the dust!
>
Delicieuse says, "Too tall but otherwise fine."
>
Delicieuse giggles.

>
Adelie spins her witchwood hairstick.

The witchwood hairstick comes to a stop pointing directly at Mikoguchi!

Adelie recovers the witchwood hairstick and says, "Congratulations Mikoguchi!"

>
Jasnel chuckles.
>
Adelie laughs!
>
Nilandia laughs!
>
Mikoguchi lets out a cheer!


Random my ...

[Asha]

No that was probably random. But what Drew said finishes the debate.

[Gelston]

It also could have not been an actual spinner that time. GMs can make you see whatever messaging they want.

[Drew]

Thank you Ash, I shall quote myself to save time.



Do you people really believe that in the spinner code there's a mechanism that lets the GM playing the merchant enter the names of characters they like so they have a better chance or guaranteed chance of getting picked? Not only that but every GM who has had their NDA expire (all those who quit more than two years ago) forgot to mention it?

[CrystalTears]

Do you really think a GM, past or present, is going to admit to manipulating spinners, even if it were true?

[thefarmer]

Why would they care one way or the other if they're long gone from the game?

[Latrinsorm]

Do you really think a GM, past or present, is going to admit to manipulating spinners, even if it were true?I can think of a couple of GMs with incredibly well-documented god complexes.

[Methais]

So much for Simu's old claim of spinners being completely random and the merchant having no control over who it picks.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n30/shadowyinzer/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

.........................................___...... ........................................
.............................,-~*`¯lllllIIIll`*~,,............................... ..........
.......................,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllll¯`*-,....................................
..................,-~*lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,..................................
...............,-*lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll l.\.................................
.............;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllIlllllllllI\............................. ...
..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/..........\;;;;llllllllll,-`~-,...........................
...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*...........`~-~-,..(.(¯`*,`,..........................
................\llllllllllll,-~*......................)_-\..*`*;..)..........................
.................\,-*¯,*`)..............,-~*`~.................../.....................
..................|/.../.../~,.......-~*,-~*`;.................../.\..................
................./.../.../.../...,-,..*~,.`*~*...................*...\............... ..
................|.../.../.../.*`...\.................................)....)`~,. .................
................|./.../..../........)......,.)`*~-,.............../....|..)...`~-,.............
..............././.../...,*`-,.....`-,...*`....,---........\..../...../..|.........¯```*~-,,,,
...............(..........)`*~-,....`*`.,-~*.,-*........|.../..../.../............\........
................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*............|.,*...,*...|..............\........
...................*,.........`-,......)-,...............,-*`.....,-*....(`-,............\.......
......................f`-,.........`-,/....*-,__,,-~*.......,-*.......|...`-,..........\........

[joehollywood]

The one thing that has always made me wonder if spinners were random or selected ( or some combination ) is the messaging you get when you actually win from a spinner or raffle table.

Sometimes you get...

...and the winner is YOU ( with you all highlighted in yellow )...

Sometimes you get...

...and the winner is "character name" ( with the character name being your own )

I've seen both when winning contests that involved both the huckster and a spinner, and always found it weird the possibilities that would cause this.

A ) two differently coded programs to do the exact same thing ( determine a random event )

B ) two differently coded programs, one to determine a random event, and another to make it appear there's a random event.

C ) a GM whispering to their spinner or whatnot ( like whispering to dice ) for it to just choose whomever

[AestheticDeath]

I don't recall having the You thing happen. Though I can't think of more than like 2 times I have been picked by a spinner and I passed up work on one of them.

[Warriorbird]

I've seen cheating in the sense of avoiding working for someone a lot more than manipulating spinners. They're random.

[diethx]

I really doubt they're anything but random, for two reasons. First, when they first came up with spinners pre-summer of '01, some GM took a merchant to RR to test them out, and my old character was the one chosen for work. He got huffy because I showed up simply for work and wasn't from RR, heh. I'd figure if he could choose, he would've chosen from the RR population.

The second is that during the Winterfest, Celinde was getting almost-bitchy with my horde because she always saw them travelling together and even made a hinting comment towards me MA'ing. I of course was (although it wasn't blatant except for the fact that they were usually grouped up together), and couldn't give two shits since I pay for all of my accounts, heh, but my characters were constantly getting spun by her. I'd think that with her attitude towards me and the fact that she obviously wasn't happy to work for me as much as she did, if she COULD rig the spinner, she WOULD have.

[Bobmuhthol]

That's a bullshit reason. You can't discount something because you think that "if this person could do it, they would." That means nothing in terms of whether it ever happened.

[diethx]

That's a bullshit reason. You can't discount something because you think that "if this person could do it, they would." That means nothing in terms of whether it ever happened.

I was sharing my opinion, not stating fact. If you're so fucking smart, why couldn't you tell the difference? I am of the opinion that they cannot be rigged, because I believe that Celinde WOULD have rigged it had she the opportunity and means to do so. Don't be a fucking dumbass.

[thefarmer]

The one thing that has always made me wonder if spinners were random or selected ( or some combination ) is the messaging you get when you actually win from a spinner or raffle table.

Sometimes you get...

...and the winner is YOU ( with you all highlighted in yellow )...

Sometimes you get...

...and the winner is "character name" ( with the character name being your own )

I've seen both when winning contests that involved both the huckster and a spinner, and always found it weird the possibilities that would cause this.

A ) two differently coded programs to do the exact same thing ( determine a random event )

B ) two differently coded programs, one to determine a random event, and another to make it appear there's a random event.

C ) a GM whispering to their spinner or whatnot ( like whispering to dice ) for it to just choose whomever

There are several more options.

D) Choosing random among certain people? Meaning only those who've not had work done.

E) Choosing a particular race, gender, etc.

Options B and C are just stupid.

[Bobmuhthol]

Okay, everything you just said did not address my post at all. Good job.

[diethx]

Okay, everything you just said did not address my post at all. Good job.

Of course it did. You spoke like I was stating for a fact that spinners cannot be rigged from the experiences i've had and that I feel if she could have, she would have, when I was simply sharing my opinion on the matter. Of course I can't know for SURE whether she would have if she could have, but I feel that she would have if she could have. That's what makes it my opinion, and not fact. And if you were to say that my opinion is bullshit because it cannot be proven, well that's just simply fucking stupid.

[Bobmuhthol]

Who are you to tell me what I meant?

[diethx]

:banghead:

[FinisWolf]

:banghead:

Don't argue with Bob, he is exactly the emoticon that you used. He loves to argue, and often plays devils advocate just to do it.

Bob was a smart guy when it came to GS mechanics and game play.

Now all I see Bob do is find a way to argue, be obnoxious, or just down right be rude and disrespectful.

Just my opinion on Bob.

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

I was sharing my opinion, not stating fact.You were providing reasons for your opinion, though. Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean the reasons for it aren't bullshit.

[diethx]

You were providing reasons for your opinion, though. Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean the reasons for it aren't bullshit.

Whatever. There's no reason for my opinions to be bullshit since they aren't based in fact, and therefore aren't trying to prove any truths, which is what Bob's response was suggesting. Maybe it's your personal opinion to disagree with my opinion, and therefore you may think in your OPINION that how I feel is bullshit, but it certainly doesn't make it so. That only means that I feel your reasoning and opinion is bullshit in turn.

[TheEschaton]

The difference, diethx, is that it would be hard to whisper to include/exclude multiple people. So sometimes they may be excluding one person, but it still lands on someone else they don't want. Or, for example, they don't want it to land on one person in particular, but they don't want to include everyone, what then? That would satisfy the situation you raised.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

There's no reason for my opinions to be bullshit since they aren't based in fact, and therefore aren't trying to prove any truths, which is what Bob's response was suggesting.What? "That's a bullshit reason." doesn't say (or "suggest") anything about your opinion or proving truth or facts. It just says that a stated reason for holding your opinion is bullshit.

[Methais]

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Thread%20Failed.gif

[diethx]

What? "That's a bullshit reason." doesn't say (or "suggest") anything about your opinion or proving truth or facts. It just says that a stated reason for holding your opinion is bullshit.

This is seriously the lamest argument ever.

Even if you read his comment differently, then it would still be HIS opinion that my reasoning is bullshit. Honestly, who the hell is he to tell me what I can and cannot think? I'll say again, I wasn't trying to state fact, I was sharing my opinions. If neither of you like it, you can ignore it, or shove it up your asses, I couldn't care less ;)

And TheEschaton, i'd think that if they could incorporate an option to whisper one person to exclude, they could just as easily have incorporated an option to exclude multiple people. Just like the FIND verb can find what, 9 names?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Honestly, who the hell is he to tell me what I can and cannot think?>>

That would be a valid question if that's what I tried to do. As much as you think you know what you're saying, you don't.

[diethx]

<<Honestly, who the hell is he to tell me what I can and cannot think?>>

That would be a valid question if that's what I tried to do. As much as you think you know what you're saying, you don't.


You can't discount something because you think that "if this person could do it, they would."

Hm, from what I can see, that's you telling me that I cannot think she didn't have the ability to rig the spinner (cannot discount her ability to rig the spinner) because I think that "if she could've done it, she would have".

I think you're the one who doesn't know/can't remember what he's saying.

[Bobmuhthol]

You're a fucking moron.

[diethx]

You're a fucking moron.

Way to concede graciously, douchebag. ;)

[Bobmuhthol]

No, seriously, you're wrong.

[Makkah]

Bob got JUKEd.

[7Seconds]

Kitten broke an axle. Loose 5 posts.

[Rimalon]

Tephrem=Merchant #1.
Cridaliane=Merchant #2.
Spinners are the most rigged and/or weighted thing I've ever seen in my life. No way they're completely random.

Log note: Raelee had just gotten something altered.

---
Speaking to Tephrem, Raelee says, "Thank you, then."

Tephrem smiles.

Raelee nods slowly.

Tephrem says, "You're very welcome."

Tephrem removes a pair of embroidery scissors from in his sewing kit.

Tephrem spins his embroidery scissors.

The embroidery scissors comes to a stop pointing directly at Cridaliane!

Tephrem recovers the embroidery scissors and says, "Congratulations Cridaliane!"

Droit laughs!

Cridaliane smiles.

Tephrem appears to be trying hard not to grin.

Tephrem says, "I thought I'd return the offer."

>look
[Raging Thrak, Trophy Room]
Tiny smudges of soot mar the fieldstones used to create the grand fireplace in this cozy room. A collection of plaques hangs above an immense grey marble mantel cluttered with trophy cups and bowls. Fashioned from a single stone slab, the hearth extends to an impressive black bear rug with its maw frozen in a silent roar. Several overstuffed wingback chairs, each covered in deep jewel-tone chintz, are scattered about the room. Against the back wall, a tall glass-front curio houses several ancient mementos and a thrak hide curtain hangs nearby. You also see the Dimwitt disk, an intricately woven straw wastebasket and a basket of sticks.
Also here: Jair, Missoni, Lord Stormme who is sitting, Ansow, Sodrotordos, Perigourd, Lord Dimwitt who is sitting, Akoe, Anta, Ombrey who is sitting, Droit, Raelee, Great Lord Kireq who is sitting, Kimatra, Arannel, Great Lady Solarbie who is sitting, Fidelity, Cridaliane who is sitting, Emislity who is sitting, Lady Robynn who is sitting, Tailor Tephrem who is sitting
Obvious exits: northeast, east

Tephrem winks at Cridaliane.

Cridaliane says, "Thank you kindly."

Cridaliane smiles at Tephrem.

Tephrem chuckles.

Cridaliane says, "Maybe I will take you up on that later."

Tephrem spins his embroidery scissors.

The embroidery scissors comes to a stop pointing directly at Cridaliane!

Tephrem recovers the embroidery scissors and says, "Congratulations Cridaliane!"

Tephrem grins.

Cridaliane chuckles.

You stare at Tephrem.

Tephrem says, "Um, oops."

Cridaliane says, "Honestly...."

Tephrem chuckles.
Tephrem exclaims, "They really like you!"
Tephrem smiles.

You move to stand in front of Cridaliane.

Cridaliane chuckles.

Tephrem spins his embroidery scissors.

The embroidery scissors comes to a stop pointing directly at Raelee!

Tephrem recovers the embroidery scissors and says, "Congratulations Raelee!"

Tephrem says, "Hmm..."

Raelee glances at Tephrem.

Tephrem says, "They seem to be in a rut."

Tephrem chuckles.

You let out a scream of rage.

Tephrem spins his embroidery scissors.

The embroidery scissors comes to a stop pointing directly at you!

Tephrem recovers the embroidery scissors and says, "Congratulations Rimalon!"

You smirk.

Raelee stares at you.

You calmly say, "Better."

[Methais]

http://iwts.ytmnd.com/

[Asha]

Now they're not actually rigged to choose as such, more like designed to systematically choose Missoni -> Perigourd -> anyone in his group in that order, first.

[Morrff]

You people need some cheese in this thread, I'll leave it to Methais to come through. I'll bet he has some stewing in his draws!

[Methais]

I don't. But Britney does!

http://bp0.blogger.com/_TMv9to_BFpw/RmVpg1R-vPI/AAAAAAAAAc4/0r7lw3FSu24/s400/britney_spears_cottage_cheese_03.jpg
http://theskinnywebsite.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/britney_spears_cottage_cheese_01.jpg
http://images.hollywoodgrind.com:9000/images/2007/6/britney_spears_cottage_cheese_intro.jpg

[Morrff]

hahaha, see you always come through!

And that's just WRONG!

[MotleyCrew]

They arn't rigged, trust me, I am NO favorite of the GM's, and once on Phoen's Promise, I was spun on like 12 times, no exaggeration. People kept trying to sit on my lap, or rub me for good luck...eesh :scared:

[Akaylas]

It's too late and this topic is too much fun!

edit: tl;dr

Part I: Spinners are random.

What is random? There's really no such thing as random. Even in an infinitely long string of digits, there is no "randomness." The closest thing to random you can get is Pi, or E.

In computers especially, this is the. Computers use what they call random number generators. It takes a seed, some sort of base value, and passes it through a carefully calculated equation that will generate a sequence of numbers. The sequence of numbers generated depends on the seed, so changing the seed will change the sequence. It is generally accepted that such sequence will be cyclical in structure, so at some point, you get to Number(N) and then Number(N+1) == Number(0). The most general RNG equation can be expressed as... Xn+1 = (aXn + B) % C, where a, B and C are constants, and n is a subscript denoting which element in the set it is.

A lot of times people use the time as a seed. There are lots of different ways one can interpet times and get vastly different numbers mere minutes apart. A lot of poker sites used to do this until scores of different college students managed to parse data and crack the poker RNG, and allow them to figure out what every possible card in a given hand.

So for Gemstone, they could use a lot of different seeds. The number of chars in a room description, the number of people in a room, time based seed, number of users. The list is endless. But because it goes through an equation, it wont be "random." If it's a good RNG, hopefully the same number wont appear twice. In fact, by what I stated before, if the same number appears twice, then you've gone through that cyclical structure. But who knows, we can't know how good their RNG is without looking at the code.

Of course, what's to say that 2, 3, 4, or even more numbers that could be generated refer to the same person. What if all numbers generated between 11762 - 11798 refered to Akaylas? What if they took the sum of the ASCII values of all the letters in your character's name, summed them, and then generated a number, and whoever was closest to that number in alphabetical order got picked?

Bottomline, you can't say they are random. At best, it's "Pseudo-random." It's kind of shitty pseudo-random (I've been victim to the spinner as well!), but it's not random. Which brings me on to point 2:

Part II: Multifunctionality

If you were designing some method of choosing items from a list (Whether it be items, players, etc), why would you not include the extra functionality to limit your searches, remove items from the possibility set, to include a single item more times (To increase its probability).

What if the spinner program went something like this
.spinner exclude person1, person2... personN
.spinner add person1, person2... personN
.spinner pick person1, person2... personN

Where exclude excludes noted people, add includes noted people additionally in the chosing, and pick randomly picks from the specified people.

To me, this seems like a good idea, regardless of its implications with merchants, to allow the people using the spinners some leverage with their functionality. I think it's just good programming for an interactive tool.

That's not to say maybe a GM just outputs the text of picking whoever they want. That would be the easiest way to do it.

Point of the matter is, Crooked GMs, Shitty Pseudo-Random number generator, either way you're boned. At least, until they start seeding the RNG with feedback from a zener-diode.

[Rocktar]

I prefer basing it off time intervals of decay from nuclear isotopes. Slightly more reandom than diodes, both are about as random as one can get in an ordered universe.

Rocktar

[Amber]

I was told by customer service that while complicated, raffles can be rigged, so I'm fairly certain spinners can be also. Of course, I doubt many gms are unscrupulous enough to do so though.

[7Seconds]

wasn't there a player used/owned spinner years ago that one could pick a particular person every time if the one who had it wanted it to? something like whispering their name or their room order to it...

[Elvenlady]

The EG leaf game produced spinners.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

The EG leaf game produced spinners.

I love em, though you gotta make sure you're holding them and not wearing them.

Frankly I don't get the anger over the spinners, though. I think shit like lists are way more likely to be rigged than a spinner.

[CrystalTears]

I hate those lists.

[Elvenlady]

Ditto.

[Sean of the Thread]

FFS I hate every time this thread is bumped. Reminds me of 100lb naive college girls with g-strings and a fifth of vodka.

[thefarmer]

I was told by customer service that while complicated, raffles can be rigged, so I'm fairly certain spinners can be also. Of course, I doubt many gms are unscrupulous enough to do so though.

You were told this? Why would they tell you this?

[Amber]

You were told this? Why would they tell you this?

It was in response to an e-mail I sent Simu wherein I asked about the possibility of a raffle being rigged. I was informed that it was possible, but difficult, and unlikely that it had been in this particular instance but that it would be looked into.

[Sean of the Thread]

I doubt customer service would have any fucking clue on the matter to be completely honest.

Now does this sort of shit go on... absolutely imo.

[SayGoodbye]

In a room of about 25 people her spinner chose Kithathas three times, Niale three times and Zoler twice.

Oh yeah and they were in a row.

[Gnomad]

FFS I hate every time this thread is bumped. Reminds me of 100lb naive college girls with g-strings and a fifth of vodka.

You're off by yourself while everyone else gets screwed?

[HSB]

As per the whole "are things rigged if you have a warning vs. an RPA"... I don't claim to know the truth about this, or have anything but my own experiences, and I can say that I believe it to some degree. And here's why:

I bought a ticket to EG this year, and have made it my obsession to get into every raffle and every merchant. That I can clearly differentiate in my head, I've been in twenty or so raffles (though likely many more than that), and sat and waited through 10 or so alter / whatever merchants using spinners. Never even a sniff, and in a couple of instances the merchant did work for 90% of the room, but never me. This is only of interest because the first day of EG I was wandering around and someone thought on the amunet, asking the location of a particular room. I responded, on open broadcast, with the room number. I immediately got a SEND telling me to stay in character. Not a warning, but still... from that point on, total dry spell.

Last night I was playing poker dice, and was tired and feeling a little punchy, so was interacting a lot more with the GM and other players than I usuall do. Lo and behold, he gave me an RPA. I came within one roll of winning that game. Then today I log on at lunch to do a little quick digging (and test out my updated script), and within 15 minutes I have two unique-ish items. I've dug for probably 10 hours or so before this, and gotten one unique item.

Is it proof positive? Hardly, but it's enough to convince me that there's SOME sort of behind-the-scenes weighting going on.

[Shalla]

If I had multiple premium accounts like Tsin, and took all my characters to a paid event, they damn well better play favourites on my account. I don't know any GMs personally, and I only have 1 active character/account, I had plenty of work done, and won a couple of raffles. Needless to say, I was on vacation at that time, and the second time I paid to attend, I had little time to be there, therefore, I didn't get as much work.

[Jorddyn]

I was at the Eagle's club last Friday night and won $63 on the purchase of one ticket in a raffle. I think it was rigged. Because there were like, 100 tickets in there.

[iJin]

Bleh. Spinners fucking suck.

I haven't been spun for shit.

[moirane]

So wait a sec. You guys are saying that because someone is picked 2 or 3 or 4 times in a row that means its rigged? I actually see this as proof that they arent rigged, I mean, first off, just cause you are picked once, if it is truly random, your chances of getting picked a second time are exactly the same right? Second, kind of a dumb and obvious way to rig something dont you think? and third, at least for every one ive seen, its not like the person that gets picked 2 or 3 or 4 times gets worked on that many times, they usually just move on and spin again no?

So, I guess I am just saying that for my 2 cents, I am not clear on why somone getting picked multiple times would make anyone think its anything but random.

[Tolwynn]

I think the chain selections are more a signal of whatever RNG is being used being decidedly subpar.

[Warriorbird]

Cheating to PREVENT people from getting picked is far more common.

That notion's above most conspiracy theorists heads though.

[Tolwynn]

Why not illuminate things a bit on that for those unenlightened?

[GSMeureii]

He's suggesting that there is some sort of list, or a "Group" of people that the GM's would set the spinners to NOT pick.

IMO if something like the spinners picking, or not picking you, get you annoyed enough to the point where you post here about it, or come up with consipiracy theories as to why, then maybe it is time to take a break. It is a game, and when you have 150 people in a raffle, or 60 people being spun for the same 5 spots, it is rough.

Maybe there is factors like RPS and Warnings, but WHO CARES. Play the game and have fun if you want to play the game. Maybe you would be considered one of the "favorites" in your theories.

Meureii's players

P.S. The "you" and "your" in my post is not directed towards anyone in particular...just voicing an oppinion.

[SpiffyJr]

So wait a sec. You guys are saying that because someone is picked 2 or 3 or 4 times in a row that means its rigged? I actually see this as proof that they arent rigged, I mean, first off, just cause you are picked once, if it is truly random, your chances of getting picked a second time are exactly the same right? Second, kind of a dumb and obvious way to rig something dont you think? and third, at least for every one ive seen, its not like the person that gets picked 2 or 3 or 4 times gets worked on that many times, they usually just move on and spin again no?

So, I guess I am just saying that for my 2 cents, I am not clear on why somone getting picked multiple times would make anyone think its anything but random.

Yes, this is true. If you are one of 100 people you have a 1% chance of being picked. What makes this fishy is if you are picked THREE TIMES IN A ROW out of 100 people it's (((1/100)^3)*100) = 0.0001% chance (1 in 10,000). Can it happen? Sure, people win the lottery all the time. It just makes it a bit more fishy.

[Allereli]

Yes, this is true. If you are one of 100 people you have a 1% chance of being picked. What makes this fishy is if you are picked THREE TIMES IN A ROW out of 100 people it's (((1/100)^3)*100) = 0.0001% chance (1 in 10,000). Can it happen? Sure, people win the lottery all the time. It just makes it a bit more fishy.

http://www.jfklancer.com/miller/images/bushman.JPG

[phantasm]

for(x=0; x <= charCount; x+1){
spinnerList[x]=charName(x);
}
srand( time(null) );
printf("GM recovers the spinner and says, "Congratulations" + spinnerList[rand(charCount)] + !"

[Spazztasim]

Here. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BirthdayProblem.html

Take the tinfoil hats off. Educate yourselves. Coincidences happen.

number of people in the gemstone room ~ number of birthdays
number of spinner spins ~ number of people in the classic birthday problem room

[Junsea]

always come to plat most the time the GM gets bored because there is not enough people to work on.

Junsea

[Senglent]

Are spinners rigged? Unless at some point you work for Simu you will never know for sure one way or the other.

Can GM's mess with you? Damn right they can, and they have since GS started about 20 years ago.

Can it all be taken into account as good fun...yes and no, depends on if your cranky that particular day. :)

My favorite was when a certain GM who dislikes me as much as I dislike him sent a grizzled critter after me with an imflass (+15 and great enhancives) hand axe, I killed it and got to keep the axe. Which I am sure was not the intended outcome the GM hoped for. Now I can't say for sure he sent it but I was in an out-of-the way place uphunting and was by myself with no others in the area for about 10 minutes then it showed up, which was about how long it was since my last e-mail to him was before I logged in. And it was about 20 seconds after I said out loud why don't you just try to kill me to make yourself feel better?

Coincidence? possible just not probable imo.

Just remember it's a game and you could be doing something else if it aggravates you that much.

[Fallen]

always come to plat most the time the GM gets bored because there is not enough people to work on.

Junsea

If I could bring my character and my gear I would certainly consider it.

[TheLastShamurai]

If I could bring my character and my gear I would certainly consider it.

just start a plat Evarin.

give the plat Miko someone to hunt with :).