TWC + 2 morning stars?

[Stanley Burrell]

...Stupid?

Could this be viable with a warrior build... Somehow? Wspec + bonded weapon in hand included?

[The Ponzzz]

Slow, but sure.

[Stanley Burrell]

Slow, but sure.

How slow, heh?

Any idea for a training plan? Any? Someone?

I could probably muster an offhand perfect star with weapon flares. I just want to make sure it's somewhat viable before I FIXSKILLS CONFIRM.

[Warriorbird]

Decent for a high str race with maxed out speed stats.

[Stanley Burrell]

Tired of a damn shield.

Any idea how to tie in CMANs + Warrior Guild skills to balance it out with some strategy, if any existed?

[Stanley Burrell]

Decent for a high str race with maxed out speed stats.

You think I could pull off smashing up fire mages with a super fast giant? -- And then where to next? (Voln Warrior.)

[The Ponzzz]

You figure a morning star is a base speed of 5, so two will be +10 seconds. Morning stars are also pretty heavy comparing to most edged weapons.

So as long as you're never encumbered and have a DEX + AGI of atleast 53 you'll be swinging in 6 seconds unaimed.

My suggestion is being a half krolvin.

[Warriorbird]

There's that weird TWC similar weapon boost. Does that help any?

[Soulpieced]

Pretty sure you can swing a morning star and mace in 5 seconds. I haven't checked lately, but my warrior has a golvern star and decently weighted warmace that used to destroy things.

[Latrinsorm]

TWC base is Right Hand Base + max(Left Hand Base - 2,0). Thus, two stars is base 8. A star and a mace would be base 7. G-kin can wield either in 5 seconds with nearly maxxed stats.

Parry mastery and wspec are obviously worth double with TWC. I would give the same advice for all warriors, cman-wise: you'll be well-served with a knockdown (bullrush?), a disabler (feint?), berserk, and weapon bonding.

[Jolena]

Stanley, send a PM to Stunseed and ask him about how it works out for him. He has a warrior in Plat that uses a mace and a star TWC, and he enjoys it.

[Stanley Burrell]

<3 people of the PC.

[Donquix]

it's good, i've talked to several people in the past who have done it. Lots of damage, just as addressed before make sure you're at or near -3 RT from dex/agi so you can attack in 5 seconds.

bullrush is a good knockdown, feint of course and berserk are mandatory for a warrior. Get your multiops up to your 2 focused strikes and bring the pain.

[Stanley Burrell]

it's good, i've talked to several people in the past who have done it. Lots of damage, just as addressed before make sure you're at or near -3 RT from dex/agi so you can attack in 5 seconds.

bullrush is a good knockdown, feint of course and berserk are mandatory for a warrior. Get your multiops up to your 2 focused strikes and bring the pain.

I was thinking about using twin hammerfists since I intend to prolly run a wraith/soul golem smushing script for a lotta favor from time to time. I *am* mastered in tackle and wtricks. Just not berserk...

Also, I'll probably either 2x or 1.75x in CM: I'm just curious as to how CMAN point viable it would be to use a mace and WSPEC for it separately (Wspec2.) I would like to, perhaps temporarily, use CMAN BERSERK -- More separately, can five combat maneuver ranks of this be used in substitution for viable Guild reps via non-CMAN berserking?

Once again, muchas gracias.

[Latrinsorm]

More separately, can five combat maneuver ranks of this be used in substitution for viable Guild reps via non-CMAN berserking?If it can, it's a bug. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but there's a guy on the officials who recommends this from time to time.

I strongly recommend 2xing CM.

Twinhamm is a no-go; you need empty hands or brawling weapons.

Having gone through the guild for two/three maneuvers, you will have more CMAN points than you know what to do with. A second wspec will be no problem.

[Warriorbird]

If there's something I agree with Latrin on...you should listen. 2x CM.

[Anebriated]

Polearm/brawl warrior imo. Massive damage and free hand to grab loot or w/e. Free hand helps voln fu as well.

[Warriorbird]

Stan plays a Giant...so he'd have difficulties with lance/awl-pike RT.

[Anebriated]

If he has trouble with polearm rt's will the TWC be any better? TWC is something Ive debated doing with my human warrior many times but I just stick with the pole cause its pretty OP'd imo.

[Latrinsorm]

Two stars are 1 second faster than lances, which is a crucial second for gkin.

[Anebriated]

How so? Never played a giantkin so I dont really know. Being a warrior though with redux and heavy armor I dont see how that 1 sec would make that big of a difference for a giant(who has more HP) over my human. I r uninformed.

[Izzy]

How so? Never played a giantkin so I dont really know. Being a warrior though with redux and heavy armor I dont see how that 1 sec would make that big of a difference for a giant(who has more HP) over my human. I r uninformed.

Giants can muster a MAXIMUM of -3 seconds to RT. Lances/awl-pikes are base 9 second weapons, which means a -3 only lowers that to 6. Therefore, giants cannot swing a lance/awl-pike in 5 seconds, but they can swing two morning stars (base 8 total, as Latrin said alread) in 5 seconds.

[Anebriated]

Ah, the reason i was kind of thick to that fact is my warrior is only 35 and his stats arent quite what they will be. I swing my lance/awl-pike in 6 seconds as it is. It doesnt really effect me too much. Fu + haste imbeds ftw. Thanks for filling me in.

[Sypher]

I thought a long time about going 2 perfect stars TWC. But in terms of killing things quickly it won't be as effective as going archery or lance or something similar. It's mainly because those aimed shots to the head never compile in terms of wounding. Meaning if I hit with my first shot and do massive damage the next shot should finished it...not in GS however....

Then I thought about coupling all that with mstrike. Then realized the RT will be insane, and I couldn't even do it everytime I wanted to due to the wait times in between mstriking.

[Stuck up Elf]

Its doable.

[Anebriated]

2 swings with a lance in 11 seconds. But I have a 6 sec base atm so it should drop. Easily drop mobs though.

[mgoddess]

Then I thought about coupling all that with mstrike. Then realized the RT will be insane, and I couldn't even do it everytime I wanted to due to the wait times in between mstriking.

If you do it right, mstriking with TWC is highly insane, and very doable.

My elf warrioress (with semi-decent Dex/Agi stats) used to TWC with dual longswords (5second base, just like stars). She was able to normally swing (unencumbered) in 5 seconds, and was able to mstrike two critters in 10 seconds. Since she 2x's in Physical Fitness, the mstrike cooldown was very quick... she usually attacked (normally) once or twice, and then was able to mstrike again if need be.

Currently, she's not TWC'ing anymore (I got used to the defense of an 8x shield)... and she can mstrike two critters in 5 seconds (3 in 8 seconds, 4 in 11 seconds, 5 in 14 seconds), and the cooldown is still two attacks (10seconds) long. When she's hunting on her own, she usually mstrikes everything.

[Stanley Burrell]

I am already fairly certain I am at least semi-going to be able to play my warrior again.

Think I'll probably try forging a superior rhimar morning star during the lazy hours.

[Sypher]

If you do it right, mstriking with TWC is highly insane, and very doable.

My elf warrioress (with semi-decent Dex/Agi stats) used to TWC with dual longswords (5second base, just like stars). She was able to normally swing (unencumbered) in 5 seconds, and was able to mstrike two critters in 10 seconds. Since she 2x's in Physical Fitness, the mstrike cooldown was very quick... she usually attacked (normally) once or twice, and then was able to mstrike again if need be.

Currently, she's not TWC'ing anymore (I got used to the defense of an 8x shield)... and she can mstrike two critters in 5 seconds (3 in 8 seconds, 4 in 11 seconds, 5 in 14 seconds), and the cooldown is still two attacks (10seconds) long. When she's hunting on her own, she usually mstrikes everything.

Which would you choose?

mstrike -not kill outright- 2 critters in 10 seconds cool down period 5-10 seconds.

Archery eye shot 2 critters -and be 95% guaranteed kill- in 10 seconds can kill another 50 critters back to back no prob.


hmmm....

[mgoddess]

Which would you choose?

mstrike -not kill outright- 2 critters in 10 seconds cool down period 5-10 seconds.

Archery eye shot 2 critters -and be 95% guaranteed kill- in 10 seconds can kill another 50 critters back to back no prob.


hmmm....

Seriously? For me, it'd depend on the character I'm playing. My warrioress does the mstrike thing... my rogue, she's hella missing her archery (I fixskilled her to sword & board, and bashed myself over the head the day afterward).

[Sypher]

Hrm, can you technically swing 2 twohanded weapons or is this impossible?

[Donquix]

you cannot. you also cannot dual wield hybrid weapons such as bastard swords, katanas, or the ever popular bastardaxe. Some onehanded weapons are ineligible, such as ball and chains and whips. Morningstars used to be prohibited from TWC but the ban was lifted a while back.

and as was stated earlier, you can only use twinhammerfists with empty hands or brawlers, but...that being said. It freaking rocks when you can use it :) guranteed knockdown on a 101 endroll, right handed weapon gets a chance to flare (should be both, but it's only the right as is), stuns on any moderately higher endroll (115-125 or higher is a small stun) and only a 4 second RT. I have it at rank 3 now, i dunno if i'll ever raise it. I've never had any problem hitting 95% of like level critters (exceptions being things like HUGE critters which seem to get a body size multiplier that inhibits it) and at rank 3 it still only costs 9 stam (goes up to 12 at rank 4)

[Anebriated]

Use more of the guild skills. Ive got all my CM's in passive skills and will continue putting em there. Tackle for knockdown/rt, disarm for rt, feint to drop stance, etc. Its almost too easy when I have pmastery and toughness among others. The only active CM I have is surge 3.

[Donquix]

if tackle ever gets it's RT reduced, i'd look into it. But i can't see using a 7 second knockdown ability.

also, should i ever actually you know...get silvers and acquire a high end brawling flarer (lol, i did have over a million silver till i started my forging marathon this weekend) i'd retain the ability to have a death flare on my knockdown maneuver, which is sweet.

We're almost completely opposite, almost all of my CMans are active. twinham, surge, crowd press, coup de gras. Only passives I have are wspec and pmastery.

crowd press i could probally do without, but it is REALLY nice against bolt casting mobs, really neuters their AS. And, it's an RP choice as well. Just fits well with a brawler, ya know?

[Sypher]

Why the heck is tackle 7 seconds, that doesn't make any sense to me...

[Stunseed]

PM's sent, but...

Being a TWC star-wielder rawks. Mine at 20 swings at 5 seconds, and I'm working up wspec/bond/surge/pmastery.

[Anebriated]

Well so long as you break about 120 on the tackle endroll the rt given to the recipient is over 10 seconds. feint and hit it with a polearm and its almost a guarenteed stun/death. Im bringing my ambushing up now so I can just aim for the head in that case and make it a lot more of a sure thing.

[Khariz]

Why the heck is tackle 7 seconds, that doesn't make any sense to me...

That's never really been an issue to me. Take something I NEED to tackle to have a good shot at, like a Vvrael Warlock. You don't JUST tackle it and hope it stays down for 7 seconds.

You feint it, disarm/sunder it, then tackle. It's so stacked in RT by that point that it's dead no matter what. On critters where warcry bellow works, if you feint, bellow, then tackle, it's never gonna get up before you slap it around.

Bellow is awesome by the way, for people who don't use it. You can basically use it on every critter during an entire hunt without losing your voice. It induces LOTS of RT, and basically lets you do whatever you want the rest of the time without fear of retribution from critters.

[Anebriated]

>e
[Castle Varunar, Outer Ward]
To the southwest the castle's keep rises high above the inner ward walls. The keep's hot oil gutters and spouts seem to have become home to the pigeons flying overhead. Pieces of straw and twigs block every spout, making them useless for their intended purpose. You also see a roa'ter.
Obvious paths: south, west
>att roa
You thrust with a haon-handled crude vultite lance at a roa'ter!
AS: +290 vs DS: +141 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +66 = +248
... and hit for 156 points of damage!
A mighty hit turns the roa'ter's insides to outsides!
The roa'ter rolls over and dies.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
>
A rotting corpse shambles in!
>disarm corp
[Roll result: 106 (open d100: 41) Bonus: 8]
You swing your crude vultite lance at a rotting corpse's wheat scythe and connect!
A rotting corpse's wheat scythe is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>tack corp
...wait 1 seconds.
>tack corp
[Roll result: 214 (open d100: 120) Penalties: 13]
You hurl yourself at a rotting corpse and connect!
You hammer a rotting corpse to the ground. 8 hits! You jump to your feet.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
>att corp
You thrust with a haon-handled crude vultite lance at a rotting corpse!
AS: +290 vs DS: +145 with AvD: +39 + d100 roll: +50 = +234
... and hit for 109 points of damage!
Strike pierces temple and kills foe instantly!
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the rotting corpse's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
The rotting corpse wails in terrifying pain one last time and lies still.
Roundtime: 7 sec.

<3 Polearms

[Anebriated]

Then something like this happens... WTF this is twice this morning...

You feel a rumble come from beneath your feet.
Dirt and rock explode from the ground beneath you as a roa'ter erupts from underground and crashes onto the surface!
Rocks and dirt pelt you as you are thrown into the air!
... 50 points of damage!
Hard strike removes the right eye and a goodly bit of skull!
Spell Elemental Defense III (414) ended. [-20DS, -15ETD]
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
Spell Elemental Defense II (406) ended. [-10DS, -10ETD]
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
Spell Elemental Defense I (401) ended. [-5DS, -5ETD]
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.

It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...

You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.

...departing in 14 mins...
You come crashing back into the ground!

[Latrinsorm]

used to TWC with dual longswords (5second base, just like stars).Longswords have a minimum swing time of 5 seconds, but are in fact base 4 weapons. Thus, two longswords is only base 6. Longswords are pretty great for TWC and mstriking in general though, yeah.
Why the heck is tackle 7 seconds, that doesn't make any sense to me...It's significantly more reliable/powerful and/or less restricted than any other knockdown (except maybe sweep).
Bellow is awesome by the way, for people who don't use it.Bellow was made approximately a bazillion times better when its RT was reduced from 3-10 to 3 flat seconds. I don't have a guy that uses it yet on account of hitting the wall back when berserk was inferior, but I can't wait.

On a side note, I would be infinitely tickled if it turned out roa'ter attacks took spells worn into account (negatively).

[Anebriated]

Master tackle and its kind of hard to miss a tackle...

[Anebriated]

I dont think they do. I pretty much skirt the outter ward looking for roa'ter. Dodge the majority of the burrows but once in awhile ill get nailed. This morning was just really unlucky getting hit twice.

[Donquix]

i know up against 1 critter tackle is great, all be it still slow, it's when multiple critters are wandering around. i'm already mstriking at like 8 seconds a flurry and feinting/disarm/etc as necessary, so it just seems like too long just for another disabler. Besides, most only thing I have to worry about from critters is CS spells. twinhammer fists + barrage of small attacks is a guranteed stun, and causes so many small wounds every place most of the time they just try to stand and fail :)

[mgoddess]

Longswords have a minimum swing time of 5 seconds, but are in fact base 4 weapons. Thus, two longswords is only base 6. Longswords are pretty great for TWC and mstriking in general though, yeah.

Ah, so they are. It was the handaxes that are base 5... they're also fun to TWC and mstrike with.

[Stanley Burrell]

Just as a bump, this training plan roxor.

[Silvanostar]

hows your warrior's ds? i got my alt warrior (twc star dwarf) to 19, but if i don't get mass spells in the park, i end up taking a lot of hits.

[Anebriated]

Thats the life of a warrior, youre gonna get beat on. Later it helps when you have heavier armor and redux though. Just gotta stick with it for awhile.

[Anebriated]

stanley, out of curiosity how did you end up training your warrior?

[Stanley Burrell]

Full 2x CM, 2x OHB, 2x TWC, 1.5x Hiding, 1.5x Ambush, 1.5x Armor, .5x Perception, 1x Dodging, some trading, climbing, survival. Enough MOC to hit one target two times... Feel like I'm forgetting something else.

CMANs:
Full wspec in morning stars.
Full berserk.
3 ranks focus,
Full parry,
2 surge,
Full Quick Strike
FULL WEAPON BONDING (I think that was the something else I was trying to think of.)
...Edit - I think that's it. I should log in.

First off, the ambush + hiding *does* work, it sounds loco, esse, but it does friggin' work. Awesomely.

CMAN berserk (I'm lazy) is awesome at 5 second swings when over-encumbered too.

Feint is a must, which I have provided by WTRICKs.

Tackle I really haven't used that much, heh. It's the same 7 seconds I use for swinging two stars and that just royally fucks up my opponent then and there. The offhand superior forged rhimar star is damn good against mages... ...Maybe I can go to Temple if I get in the habit of doing tweaked down bounties until 83 (water elemental tasks at that point. I'll see how that goes with time.)

And the full Dex, Str and Agl.

All I can think of right now. I'll log in and post later.

[Stanley Burrell]

The only thing I regret (mechanically) is being Voln and not CoL. That does make a big difference in a few not-so-subtle ways, unfortunately.