New Relationship Advice

[Revalos]

Hello, I'm Troy McClure...err Revalos...you may remember me from posts like "My wife just left me for no reason" and "I'm such an idiot for not locking my joint account before she stole $7000 out of it." Well I'm back from Korea, and now I have an entirely new set of problems to deal with.

No, I didn't bang any Asian chicks or any of the other Americans on the business trip, but I did find out a lot about this one particular girl who I had wanted to get to know better, and now I need advice (since most of what people said in the last thread was great) about how to work out a new relationship.

I'm not going to start anything until after the divorce is finalized, which I'm going to guess is probably going to happen at the end of this month or so. I'll be meeting with my wife at some point to have that wonderful final talk where we compromise on everything until we go to court and then she brings on the tears and I just give her everything she wants or some such bullshit.

Anyway, after that is all said and done, I'd like to figure out how to go further so here's my predicaments with the new girl:

First of all, she's one of those extraordinarily friendly single women that throws the smiles at every guy she knows. She's everyone's friend, but she isn't dating anyone. She's been approached on several occasions by folks that she works with, but she hasn't gone out with them because they've either been A) old and creepy, B) jocks looking for a one-night-stand, or C) trying to push things too quickly based on false pretenses.

We spent a lot of time together with some of the people she worked with in DC during this trip to Korea shopping or doing the tourist thing. Lucky for me the guys we were with were either Category B's listed above, happily married, or otherwise not interested, so I had a lot of personal contact with her. Including one very awkward (for me) 1 on 1 conversation in her hotel room.

The conversation was much more personal than I was expecting. It started out with her talking about how all the military (Type B) guys at the location she was working in Korea were hitting on her. It continued along that line of discussion until I had to start talking about me.

That's how I almost ended up in Category C right off the bat during the trip, but I executed an extraordinary 'saving throw vs. being caught flat lying' and told her the truth about my current situation (relatively) up front. The thing is, we've met each other before, but only as fellow workers on an extremely limited basis (like only really seen each other in person 10 times in 3 years), but she apparently remembered seeing me with a wedding band on (which she revealed AFTER she popped the "so, do you have anyone special in your life?" question in her hotel room...a clever ploy). Now...I figure I could take that two ways...that she was either interested in me early on and noticed that particular detail then or she just happens to remember that kind of stuff (she's got some kind of minor hearing problem that she needs hearing aids for, so maybe she is more of a visual type).

In any case, I also found out that she'd been through a situation that I believe bodes poorly for me going much further any time soon, IMHO. Apparently she had become very close to a guy who had just gone through a divorce. So close in fact that she spoke of it as if this had been "the guy" she wanted. But, apparently the guy and his ex-wife remarried and put her in a bad position. She was (probably still is) friends with the guy, but I'm sure she wanted more than that. I'm wondering if that is the reason she's still single, she wants to actually find a commitment so she doesn't get burned again.

But see...here's the crux of this thing. Either I'm misreading signals (which is totally possible given my lack of recent experience) or she is actually interested in me now. First of all, as I said, we hung out with groups several times in Korea, but she also called me just to chat about semi-personal stuff a few times as well (in addition to the conversation we had). We share a lot of similar interests and habits (basically a tea totaler, not very interested in the bar/club scene, generous to a fault, etc...) and we seemed to connect quite well on a personal level.

She let me pay for souvenirs/meals for her on several occasions (her bank card wasn't working there so she wasn't able to get cash easily) with no real intention of worrying about paying me back (I told her "I know you're good for it" which she responded quite well to), she did a "touch on the shoulder/cocktease look" whenever we parted company (I didn't notice her do that to anyone else there, but maybe I have a big ego), and we both opened up to each other about personal things very easily (I couldn't fucking believe I told her I was still married...I had gone over it in my mind hundreds of times before we talked that I was going to basically lie and say I was already divorced so that we could start dating immediately, but I didn't and obviously saved my ass).

Wow, this has been long and rambling. Anyway, if you've stayed with me this long, what I'm looking for is what to do to try to go out with this girl.

I know I won't do a damn thing before the divorce is completely finalized, but how long after that should I wait before stepping up the new relationship? Weeks? Months?

What kind of group activities can I do with her until then to let her know I'm still interested? I have this nagging fear that someone is going to scoop her up while I'm in a holding pattern. She's moving into her own apartment later this month for the first time in her life (she's lived with her sister since they got out of school), and invited me to the housewarming party and to help her move. Should I initiate any group activities with her and my friends or basically let her control that so she doesn't think I'm leading her down the same road she went with that last divorced guy? She seemed quite interested when I said that I had learned to fence in school, as that was something she'd always wanted to do. Would that be something we could do together at a training center in a class and not make it seem like we were "dating" too soon?

Any suggestions on how to proceed from here would be appreciated. I'm trying to keep a level head at this point, not wanting to think that this new girl is going to be "the one." But she'd be quite the catch (good looking, big football fan, loves LOTR and movie replica weaponry, and drives a fucking sports car for christ's sake!), so I don't want to miss any opportunities that come my way, especially ones that at least have the appearance of actually being interested in me right off the bat.

[Skeeter]

definately be carefull quickly jumping into a new relationship, that need to be needed thing is a bitch. also rebound girl almost never works out.

I think the fencing thing is a great icebreaker if she is truly interested. Sounds like she is giving you the signals and creative dating was always a huge points winner.

You could also tell her you have an extra ticket for the local football team and you couldn't find any of your friends that were able to go and see if she is interested. If so go buy 2 tickets and hit the game. (Don't buy the tickets in advance so that you don't get stuck eating them)

Also you should be a writer, your posts are incredibly well written and entertaining, and I assume you mostly just knock them out off the cuff w/o revisions and editing. Huge potential there.

[Revalos]

Yeah, I realize this is likely just the "needed thing/rebound" effect, but I've just got to try and get back into the real world, and test my luck otherwise I'll end up alone forever.

I think the fencing thing will work out well. I've just got to find the right venue. Ironically, the reason I learned how to fence in the first place was to impress my current wife because her previous boyfriend was an instructor (and I thought it'd be a good opportunity to get to stab him repeatedly).

Football might work, but she's a diehard Broncos fan. So no Redskins or Ravens games will likely do it. I'll keep my eye out for a Ravens-Broncos game though.

[Warriorbird]

This relationship probably won't go terribly far and it probably shouldn't, but y'know what? That's okay.

Do group stuff. Do stuff with her. Do whatever. Some women just like to be your first taste of freedom. If by some miracle it goes longer, it goes longer.

And fence!

[Sylvan Dreams]

and now I need advice (since most of what people said in the last thread was great) about how to work out a new relationship.


I'm not going to start anything until after the divorce is finalized


Anyway, after that is all said and done, I'd like to figure out how to go further


I know I won't do a damn thing before the divorce is completely finalized, but how long after that should I wait before stepping up the new relationship? Weeks? Months?

From the above lines in your post it doesn't even sound like YOU know what you want. You're seeking advice on starting a new relationship yet aren't going to start anything until after the divorce is final? Did you mean that you wanted to start dating her now but weren't going to try to sleep with her until later? The 'not do a thing' is confusing.

The best thing you can do for a new relationship is to get your affairs in order before inviting her to be a bigger part of your life than she already is.


The thing is, we've met each other before, but only as fellow workers on an extremely limited basis (like only really seen each other in person 10 times in 3 years), but she apparently remembered seeing me with a wedding band on (which she revealed AFTER she popped the "so, do you have anyone special in your life?" question in her hotel room...a clever ploy). Now...I figure I could take that two ways...that she was either interested in me early on and noticed that particular detail then or she just happens to remember that kind of stuff (she's got some kind of minor hearing problem that she needs hearing aids for, so maybe she is more of a visual type).

Or maybe option 3, she remembered the wedding band and wanted to see if you'd make mention of the (now soon-to-be ex-) wife. Try not to read into it more. She could have just been curious as to what you'd say. You don't know her well enough to try and anticipate her movitations.

[Ignot]

What ever happens the new girl will NOT be the next one to get married/serious with. Just have fun and don't go getting all googly-eyed with this new girl and don't scare her away either. Just take it slow.

Im also very disappointed that you did not take the time during the trip to knock out some asian whores. That's a great way to get over a divorce.

[The Ponzzz]

I couldn't read past the stealing of $7000!! God I hate exwives...

So uhh yea... Basically what Conan said.

[Brattt8525]

>>She let me pay for souvenirs/meals for her on several occasions (her bank card wasn't working there so she wasn't able to get cash easily)<<

All I can say is don't let yourself be used, I think you have been through enough already.

Get through the divorce, don't think about her/anyone else at all at this point. Join a club/play gemstone/take as many trips into the bathroom as needed but do not by any means get emotionally hooked up with anyone for awhile.

[diethx]

Get through the divorce, don't think about her/anyone else at all at this point. Join a club/play gemstone/take as many trips into the bathroom as needed but do not by any means get emotionally hooked up with anyone for awhile.

I have to disagree here. No, you shouldn't get emotionally tied to anyone right now, but the best way to get past a bad relationship is the rebound (not gemstone or jerkin it). If you think that you can avoid being emotional with her, you should go for it. Just remember - it's about having fun, great sex, and NOT making a commitment. If after speaking with her at length you realize this is a woman you could really see yourself having a relationship with, maybe you should cool it until you’re past the rebound phase (without sharing details on your sex life in the meantime, of course).

While you may really like this woman, you had a bad break up and were in love with your wife a few short months ago. Even if you wait until your divorce is final at the end of the month, jumping into another emotionally-charged relationship so soon is a bad idea. Take some time to enjoy your freedom and figure out what made your last relationship go so wrong, so maybe you can figure out what to do and what NOT to do when the right woman comes around.

[SpunGirl]

SHOSH BRAHT

[The Ponzzz]

I suggest everyone have atleast a handful of flings before ever settling down, even if it's the second run through. After my divorce, that's what I did and I thought it to be very healthy.

[Revalos]

Thanks guys, as usual.


From the above lines in your post it doesn't even sound like YOU know what you want. You're seeking advice on starting a new relationship yet aren't going to start anything until after the divorce is final? Did you mean that you wanted to start dating her now but weren't going to try to sleep with her until later? The 'not do a thing' is confusing. -Sylvan Dreams

I was brought up in New Orleans as a "Southern Gentelman" by a pair of ridiculous prudes (never had "the talk" with either of my parents), so sex has never been at the top of my list of interests. Although, at this juncture, I'd probably do any girl that wanted me to, but that's what blue balls is all about (and the suspicion that the whole reason my wife left me was because I wasn't a big enough freak for her). But casual sex isn't my bag, I'd probably read too much into it and want a relationship or something. I'm such a god damned woman when it comes to that.

The whole reason I want to wait until after the divorce is purely a legal rationale. I don't want my wife to pull that card during the proceedings and get even more money out of me. Also, the girl got burned by a recent divorcee before, so I don't want to lose the game before the end of the first quarter and try to go for the gusto immediately.


Im also very disappointed that you did not take the time during the trip to knock out some asian whores. That's a great way to get over a divorce. -Ignot

Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed too, but on the one hand, sex with undocumented foreigners is a security problem in my line of work, so I would have basically been limited to other Americans and honestly it was mostly a giant sausagefest, so it would have had to have been this girl, and I can guarantee I wouldn't have had a chance.

All I can say is don't let yourself be used, I think you have been through enough already.

Get through the divorce, don't think about her/anyone else at all at this point. Join a club/play gemstone/take as many trips into the bathroom as needed but do not by any means get emotionally hooked up with anyone for awhile. -Bratt8525

See...the thing is I think I get off on being used by women. I'm not that physically attractive (I did manage to lose 40 pounds while on this trip though...at least I'm working on that front) so I'm about a %75 an attractive personality/%25 a tall blond guy when it comes to my self image. So I'm not going to bag anyone immediately anyway, so every move I make is going to be slowed down so that I can show her my good side. I hope that is going to work out in this case.


While you may really like this woman, you had a bad break up and were in love with your wife a few short months ago. Even if you wait until your divorce is final at the end of the month, jumping into another emotionally-charged relationship so soon is a bad idea. Take some time to enjoy your freedom and figure out what made your last relationship go so wrong, so maybe you can figure out what to do and what NOT to do when the right woman comes around. - diethx

I think I've come full circle with regards to 'loving my wife a few short months ago.' I'm starting to think my wife was right about her statement that we were never really in love in the first place, we just were friends with benefits that got out of control and ended up being married for 6 years. The fact that she is such a fucking bitch when it comes to using me like a sugar daddy but decided to break it off before she played the "I can't get sexually satisfied in this relationship, but the money is too good to leave" and cheated the hell out of me is what led me to this conclusion. She did fucking steal seven grand though, so the 'love' thing pretty much got killed right there.

I hear you about finding out what was at the crux of the reason the last relationship fell apart. If it is like I think and it was just a bad relationship to begin with, what I really need to find out is how to make a relationship last, since it appears I can get into them easy, but keeping the interest up is my problem. That's one of the reasons I really like this new girl, she wants to learn to dive, to fence, to learn martial arts knife fighting, and all sorts of stuff. My current wife wanted to be alone in her room and turn the music up and let the chips fall where they may and do things on impulse, which drove me insane because I loved to plan for things.


I suggest everyone have atleast a handful of flings before ever settling down, even if it's the second run through. After my divorce, that's what I did and I thought it to be very healthy. -ThePonzzz

Yeah, I may come back for more advice on that front. As I've indicated here, I don't understand the concept of a fling. One thing about this girl that I found out is that she doesn't hold grudges. Even the creepy guys who approach her she's still friends with even though they'll never get in her pants. If I do, inshallah, and it turns out that it is just a rebound fling, at least I won't lose her as a friend.

[Nieninque]

Chill out and have fun.

Que Sera Sera.

[ElanthianSiren]

The best thing you can do for a new relationship is to get your affairs in order before inviting her to be a bigger part of your life than she already is.




I'm surprised this hasn't been quoted (if it was, I apologize for missing it). You can't have a real relationship carrying around suitcases of emotional baggage (please take my word here). You still seem to have this over the cash your ex wife stole. Don't let that very negative situation taint this relationship for you. You owe that to yourself.

That said, fencing is awesome :) My vote is for fencing, no matter the reasons for your training in the subject. That skill belongs to you now, not your ex wife's ex boyfriend.

[Sean of the Thread]

Pump her in the butt!

Que Sera Sera

[Haywood J.]

Personally, I say go for it. Take your time, just do fun things together at first, slowly.

If I recall, you said in the other relationship thread you were kind of a homebody. This woman seems to like you as is, just remember that no one wants to date someone who just sits at home all the time.

[Celephais]

Personally, I say go for it. Take your time, just do fun things together at first, slowly.

If I recall, you said in the other relationship thread you were kind of a homebody. This woman seems to like you as is, just remember that no one wants to date someone who just sits at home all the time.

Just be careful that the girl isn't more into sports than you are, and if she doesn't flirt that means she's gay.

[Revalos]

You can't have a real relationship carrying around suitcases of emotional baggage (please take my word here). You still seem to have this over the cash your ex wife stole. Don't let that very negative situation taint this relationship for you. You owe that to yourself. -ElanthianSiren

I agree. That's why waiting doesn't seem like such a bad idea before jumping into a relationship. As I said in the original post, my biggest concern was that I'd miss a chance to go out with this girl unless I had a plan of action once I'm past my current problems.


If I recall, you said in the other relationship thread you were kind of a homebody. This woman seems to like you as is, just remember that no one wants to date someone who just sits at home all the time. -Haywood J.

Yep. Words to live by. I hope my homebodyness was brought on by my dealings with my reclusive current wife. I love the outdoors and traveling, but it isn't any fun at all when you're the only one who really wants to be there. My wife tagged along, but she hated just about every trip we went on. And all sorts of things are a hell of a lot more fun in a sportscar than a Subaru.


Just be careful that the girl isn't more into sports than you are, and if she doesn't flirt that means she's gay. -Celephais

The flirting thing is something I got over with my wife (although I tend to believe it led to our marriage's undoing...did I mention I snooped on our phone bill again for august and she had a 141 minute phone call with her boss...How do you even have a two hour phone call?). As for her being more into sports than me...that is possible, but I need more sports in my life, both as a viewer and as a participator. We'll have to see how fencing goes.

[ViridianAsp]

Oh wow, where to start. You need to be careful in this situation. You say you don't love your wife anymore because of her stealing 7k which I can understand you being angry with, you are angry right now, and rightfully so.

But don't let your anger fool you, you probably need time away from an emotional obligation like a relationship. I've seen this happen to a lot of men I know (Even my own father.), do not dive into a serious relationship.

Don't rush into it and lead this girl on. Spend time with her, but do not get serious, till you are really sure you are over your ex.

[ElanthianSiren]

I agree. That's why waiting doesn't seem like such a bad idea before jumping into a relationship. As I said in the original post, my biggest concern was that I'd miss a chance to go out with this girl unless I had a plan of action once I'm past my current problems.

I wouldn't worry about that. There are plenty of girls. I know this one seems special, but honestly, make a list of the qualities you like in a woman. Then think about how many women in this world share those qualities. The probability is your favor, most likely.

I think you're totally on the right track about taking things slow. Trust your instincts.

Celephais was making a joke (I believe).

[Celephais]

Celephais was making a joke (I believe).

That I was: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=25340

Do NOT take any relationship advice from Backlash (AKA Haywood J, etc etc). He's pretty much the PC resident sexual predator... despite the fact that the advice he gave this time was relatively sound, some girls do enjoy being homebodies on occasion, just make sure you're not pressuring her one way or the other.. but really the next relationship you have should be about you, then after that you can have a relationship where you worry about "us".

Us not being you and me, but you and her... right.. unless you want to have a relationship that's about sending me presents.

[Ignot]

Get a dog.

[Misun]

First of all, she's one of those extraordinarily friendly single women that throws the smiles at every guy she knows. She's everyone's friend, but she isn't dating anyone.


She let me pay for souvenirs/meals for her on several occasions (her bank card wasn't working there so she wasn't able to get cash easily) with no real intention of worrying about paying me back (I told her "I know you're good for it" which she responded quite well to), she did a "touch on the shoulder/cocktease look" whenever we parted company


Red flags. Take it slow and be very very careful.

[diethx]

Red flags. Take it slow and be very very careful.

Those so aren't red flags. There's nothing wrong with her being very friendly with all of her male friends/coworkers. I've always been the exact same way, simply because all of my life the majority of my friends were male. There's a difference between being friendly and smiling and being sluttastic and flirty with everyone.

As for the second part, the touch on the shoulder and sexy look, she was flirting with HIM. She wasn't doing that with every guy on the trip, she was only doing it with him. How is her showing interest in him and him alone a red flag?

[Sean of the Thread]

I just want to point out I gave the best advice the last time and I certainly gave the best advice this time.

[Daniel]

Go for the butt with a finger. If she doesn't protest then go for the gold.

[TheEschaton]

Does anyone else find the idea of "needing a fling" to be incredibly idiotic? Or the idea of random sex with no attachment to be incredibly unhealthy?


(I do. I think it's far unhealthier than looking for a solid relationship. If this isn't that...just wait for something better. Sheesh.)

-TheE-

[Good Karma]

That I was: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=25340

Do NOT take any relationship advice from Backlash (AKA Haywood J, etc etc). He's pretty much the PC resident sexual predator... despite the fact that the advice he gave this time was relatively sound, some girls do enjoy being homebodies on occasion, just make sure you're not pressuring her one way or the other.. but really the next relationship you have should be about you, then after that you can have a relationship where you worry about "us".

Us not being you and me, but you and her... right.. unless you want to have a relationship that's about sending me presents.

Is it at all possible that Haywood J., a renown pornstar, is not only not who you think he is but right and that you are completely and totally wrong about not only who you think he is but what you think happened with who you think he is?

[Warriorbird]

Does anyone else find the idea of "needing a fling" to be incredibly idiotic? Or the idea of random sex with no attachment to be incredibly unhealthy?
-TheE

People only say that until they get some.

[TheEschaton]

I've had plenty of random sex in my time, and it made me more insecure and shallow than I've ever been in my life.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Red flags. Take it slow and be very very careful.

She might have just been giving him the same look all girls give the fat guy in Best Buy when they want help finding something they're too lazy to look for themselves.

[Skeeter]

I've had plenty of random sex in my time, and it made me more insecure and shallow than I've ever been in my life.

that's hard to believe

[diethx]

Does anyone else find the idea of "needing a fling" to be incredibly idiotic? Or the idea of random sex with no attachment to be incredibly unhealthy?

(I do. I think it's far unhealthier than looking for a solid relationship. If this isn't that...just wait for something better. Sheesh.)

-TheE-

There's nothing wrong or idiotic with a rebound fling or three. We're not suggesting that he should go out and screw random sluts bareback. But meaningless, lusty, FUN, no-strings sex can really help someone get over a shittastic relationship. Plus, so long as you don't make a serious habit of sleeping around (i'm talking more than just a few, here), and make sure you're protected every time, there's nothing unhealthy about it.


But I've never been in a relationship for longer than 8 months, personally.

Being someone who has never had a lengthy (or very serious?) relationship, as you've already admitted you are, maybe you just don't know what it's like to be in this type of situation. Before you knock it, try it.

[Anebriated]

Go out and get laid a few times then go back and try a relationship with the chick from work when your legal battle is over.

[Celephais]

I've had plenty of random sex in my time, and it made me more insecure and shallow than I've ever been in my life.


that's hard to believe

I agree with skeet... something tells me that "plenty" is... twice, maybe three times. At least one of which was something you wished to be longer term and she didn't see it that way, hence the feeling shallow.

Skeet skeet!

[Bobmuhthol]

I don't know... if I can fuck 8 bitches daily, I would hope TheE has no trouble at all.

[Skeeter]

you the man bob.

[ElanthianSiren]

But meaningless, lusty, FUN, no-strings sex can really help someone get over a shittastic relationship. Plus, so long as you don't make a serious habit of sleeping around (i'm talking more than just a few, here), and make sure you're protected every time, there's nothing unhealthy about it.

Unless the guy/chick is a total freak that attaches meaning to it, or you're balless/titless enough not to admit what you're doing.

[diethx]

Unless the guy/chick is a total freak that attaches meaning to it, or you're balless/titless enough not to admit what you're doing.

That would sort of defeat the whole purpose of what i'm suggesting.

But honestly you can't control what other people do and feel, other than making sure from the start that your respective heads are in the right places. If the chick he starts hooking up with attaches meaning to it after assuring him she wouldn't, he can decide how he wants to proceed (turn it into a relationship, or break it off). So long as he's honest upfront from the beginning and she's clear and fine with it, he should have no reservations about ending it after he gets what he wants/needs.

P.S. I'm not suggesting he go out there and find a repulsive she-D to take pity on who will attach herself to him like flies on stink.

[CrystalTears]

I never suggest someone starting any kind of romantical (just for Gan) relationship right after a breakup. Want to have a nice female friend to hang out with? Great. A new relationship? I don't advise it. Seriously. Live on your own completely for a year or two. Enjoy your freedom even if it's not something you favor.

[ElanthianSiren]

Right! I just thought that disclaimer needed to be added. If I had a buck every time someone gnawed my ear about how they started a relationship, and it was SUPPOSED to be a casual thing, but so and so decided they were in love, I'd be really friggin rich.

[Gan]

I never suggest someone starting any kind of romantical (just for Gan) relationship right after a breakup. Want to have a nice female friend to hang out with? Great. A new relationship? I don't advise it. Seriously. Live on your own completely for a year or two. Enjoy your freedom even if it's not something you favor.

LOL

What! what!

/agree with the romantical avoidance. It should be all about the sextical thang.

[DeV]

Unless the guy/chick is a total freak that attaches meaning to it, or you're balless/titless enough not to admit what you're doing.Exactly.

For any kind of relationship between two people to work, those two people must be able to agree on a viewpoint that they can both live up to. If she isn't the type to get off on NSA sex or the reverse it could be a recipe for trouble. Not to mention he stated that he wants with her is a bit more serious than casual sex.

In any case, I agree with the "be very careful" crowd. People tend to fall back into their normal routine when it comes to love and relationships. You mentioned that her last major interest was a guy who'd just gotten out of a marriage and divorce and it didn't end in her favor. Therein lies your red flag. If you want this to go further with this woman don't make her your rebound, plain and simple.

You should oil the wheels of friendship with her and nothing more for the time being. Casual sex, if that's your forte, may get you through those lonely nights, but it gets old after awhile. If you truly like her as a person you may want to take things slowy, drop it down to a friendship only level where you aren't worrying about what moves to make next and you're just being yourself, letting her get to know you more on a casual friendship level. Just be honest with her and you'll earn her respect even more.

[Revalos]

Yeah...I'm beginning to see the predicament a lot more clearly. If I really like this girl and want this to go further, I need to figure out more about what I'm doing right now about all my other problems. I can't just go jump into a relationship because I'd rather not be alone. That solves nothing.

I'll stick to the friendship thing and let the chips fall where they may. Trying to force a new relationship for relationship's sake isn't the way to go. One thing that I think helps with this sentiment is that she mentioned that after she moves into this new apartment she just got, she doesn't want to move again for a few years. That tells me that one, she isn't going anywhere, and two, she isn't looking for a relationship that would get her out of this place that she just moved into.

Speaking of all that. What the hell should I do about this house I have now? I don't really want it anymore. Not because of the memories or whatever, but I bought this house so that my wife could get to work easier since she doesn't drive. But I'd rather live in a place in downtown DC. The housing market sucks pretty bad, but I bet I could still turn a profit on this place if I tried pretty hard. On the other hand, I like owning my own place and I don't want to go back to throwing money away on a rental (which is what I'd have to do if I moved downtown).

She's definitely up for the fencing thing and sent me an excited e-mail this morning that she'd found a place that holds classes in NVA. So at least I know she wasn't just playing me off on the interest in fencing earlier.

[TheEschaton]

Ouch folks. ;)

FYI, I was a druggie for awhile (but luckily, unlike Stan, I didn't post here), and guys with the hook up always get women. Maybe not very high quality, high end stuff, but still.

And it was worthless, because I've never met a woman who didn't have emotions attached to sex. Supposedly they exist, but I've never met one. So "random, meaningless" sex never was exactly like that. Especially the longer such a meaningless fling lasts.

As for me never having a relationship longer than 8 months...hell, dudes, I'm only 26. I still don't think it's healthy to "get over" a long term relationship by fucking the first thing that walks by.

-TheE-

[diethx]

FYI, I was a druggie for awhile (but luckily, unlike Stan, I didn't post here), and guys with the hook up always get women. Maybe not very high quality, high end stuff, but still.

Hmm, I find this a little hard to swallow simply because I too used to do (and sell) quite a bit of drugs, and I knew a lot of guys with the "hook up" that didn't get laid simply because they weren't that appealing. Maybe if you're talking about crackwhores willing to do anything for their next fix, yeah, then I guess guys with the hook up always get some.

Keep in mind that i'm not saying this wasn't the case in your experience since I don't know you, but to generalize something like that is fairly incorrect.


As for me never having a relationship longer than 8 months...hell, dudes, I'm only 26.

While there's absolutely nothing wrong with you not having a relationship longer than 8 months, you can't give honest, real advice on a situation that you've never experienced. Of course you can have an opinion, but it's pretty baseless without experiencing it yourself. That was my only point ;)


I still don't think it's healthy to "get over" a long term relationship by fucking the first thing that walks by.

It's very healthy to go out and have a fling to help you get past any residual pain of a tough breakup. In fact, in my experience, it can be the best way to move on.

Revalos has expressed signs of insecurity, craptastic self esteem, and a poor body image. All of this is probably due to his ex-wife's sexual issues with him. Going out and finding someone he's attracted to who wants to hook up (whether that includes fucking or not) with him could do wonders for his self-image. It'll remind him that it was his wife who had issues, that it wasn't his fault, and that he's still attractive to others. It also will make him realize that his wife isn't the end-all, that there are other fish out there, and that he's going to be just fine. So long as he uses a rubber and other precautions, it's cheaper and way more fun than therapy (and your friends won't want to kill you if you use THEM for therapy instead of a trained professional).

[Latrinsorm]

you can't give honest, real advice on a situation that you've never experienced.I know for a fact this isn't true. <3 my therapist.

[diethx]

I know for a fact this isn't true. <3 my therapist.

k let me rephrase. You can't give honest, real advice on a situation you've never experienced, unless you've had years and years of higher education training that specifically taught you how to successfully give honest, real advice on a situation you've never experienced.

[ElanthianSiren]

I knew a lot of guys with the "hook up" that didn't get laid simply because they weren't that appealing.

she speaketh the truth. Mr 10 year old and his posse of 10 year olds come to mind (she maintains they were 17). One of the few times I was actually glad to be cow status, not to mention friggin exhausted :P

Melissa, come on... come down stairs and hang out with us.

Noooooo... sleeeeeeeeping... drool.

[Stanley Burrell]

FYI, I was a druggie for awhile (but luckily, unlike Stan, I didn't post here),

Fuck you non-sexually, bitch! :medieval:

[Revalos]

Revalos has expressed signs of insecurity, craptastic self esteem, and a poor body image. All of this is probably due to his ex-wife's sexual issues with him. Going out and finding someone he's attracted to who wants to hook up (whether that includes fucking or not) with him could do wonders for his self-image. It'll remind him that it was his wife who had issues, that it wasn't his fault, and that he's still attractive to others. It also will make him realize that his wife isn't the end-all, that there are other fish out there, and that he's going to be just fine. So long as he uses a rubber and other precautions, it's cheaper and way more fun than therapy (and your friends won't want to kill you if you use THEM for therapy instead of a trained professional). -diethx

Heh...well, when you put it that way, it does make a lot more sense. I guess my whole thing is that I'm basically having a what a 45 year old would call a mid life crisis at 28.

I've never really considered myself attractive to women and I married the first girl I really dated seriously because I was too scared I'd end up with either a ho bag that cheated on me but knew they could get away with it because I was so insecure, or I'd end up like my loser uncle and be a permanent bachelor with no friends because I can't just sit back and watch women jump into my lap.

Now that I'm getting out of what was basically a 'long term fuckable-friendship,' it comes to my mind that it is quite possible I have no idea what a real relationship is supposed to entail. That is something I need to learn, and the mid-life crisis side of me screams that I have to learn it fast or I will end up like my uncle because I'm not going to marry the last person standing at musical chairs just because I need to have someone else in my life. I may have low self esteem, but it ain't that low.

As to therapy, I think 90% of it is a crock of expensive horseshit anyway so I'm all for alternative means to get past this bump in the road. I'm still in TheEschaton's camp with regards to casual sex though...I just don't think I could just do a girl for the sake of doing it unless there was something else deeper going on. Who knows, maybe I'll get over that too at some point.

[TheEschaton]

It's very healthy to go out and have a fling to help you get past any residual pain of a tough breakup. In fact, in my experience, it can be the best way to move on.


k let me rephrase. You can't give honest, real advice on a situation you've never experienced, unless you've had years and years of higher education training that specifically taught you how to successfully give honest, real advice on a situation you've never experienced.


Funny, in my experience AS A SEXUAL HEALTH EDUCATOR, it isn't a healthy way to move on at all if you have any sort of internalized morality (note: this is not a debate about good and bad, but what standards Revalos has held himself to in the past), which Revalos seemingly does.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

As for that druggie thing, hell, I must be better looking than the average drug dealer (?). I always got lots of ass in high school.

-TheE-

[diethx]

Funny, in my experience AS A SEXUAL HEALTH EDUCATOR, it isn't a healthy way to move on at all if you have any sort of internalized morality (note: this is not a debate about good and bad, but what standards Revalos has held himself to in the past), which Revalos seemingly does.

-TheE-

You're a sexual health educator? I thought you worked for the DA in Manhattan? Heh. Either way, I stand by my statement. I don't know where you are or were a sexual health educator, but you are no therapist/doctor. As someone with actual life experience, I can say that to me, your "advice" wouldn't be worth the paper it's printed on.

So basically what you're saying is, it's immorally unhealthy to have a few no-strings-attached flings? Please correct me if i'm misinterpreting your statements. If i'm not misinterpreting, then rofl. I'm glad that in this country I don't need to adhere to anyone else's skewed ideas of morality.

[diethx]

As for that druggie thing, hell, I must be better looking than the average drug dealer (?). I always got lots of ass in high school.

-TheE-

I dunno about that, post a pic and we'll (I'll) let you know.

Otherwise, maybe you were just an asshole? That worked really well on high school girls from what I can remember.

[TheEschaton]

I was a sexual health educator before law school. ;) Now I'm going in a different direction. Career change, if you will. :)

And I even FUCKING PUT A NOTE ON IT, in re: to what I mean by breaking his "morality". When I say "internalized morality", I merely mean the standards Revalos holds himself to. I DO NOT MEAN IMMORAL BEHAVIOR. Obviously (by his posting style previous, and the confirmation of how he regards sex IN THE POST ABOVE MINE) his internal standards would lead to conflict if he were just to fuck the first thing that walks by.

Now, if a person's internal standard was that sex was more important than the emotional connection that comes along with sex, then yes, perhaps that person could get over a long, emotionally turbulent relationship by random flings. REVALOS OBVIOUSLY ISN'T THAT KIND OF PERSON. No value judgment attached at all, whether you are, but this isn't about you. You're obviously confused and thinking I'm applying this to everyone, and for that, I'm sorry. Maybe you can get over relationships with casual flings, but in my experience, most people DO actually care a great deal about the emotional aspect of sex, and to eliminate that from your sex life is merely a numbing effect - while you may think that's a solution, it isn't. Numbing something does not make a problem go away. So, if you truely have no emotional attachment with sex, then by all means, go ahead, sleep around with whomever you want to get over all your relationships.

(Slut.) ;)

Edit: Asshole I did well, in high school. I'm a much nicer guy now.
Edit2: I feel like I needed to put in the winky after the italacized side comment so NO ONE MISTAKES THAT IT IS SARCASM.

-TheE-

[Daniel]

The amount of Chicks on your facebook wall says otherwise.

[diethx]

And I even FUCKING PUT A NOTE ON IT, in re: to what I mean by breaking his "morality". When I say "internalized morality", I merely mean the standards Revalos holds himself to. I DO NOT MEAN IMMORAL BEHAVIOR. Obviously (by his posting style previous, and the confirmation of how he regards sex IN THE POST ABOVE MINE) his internal standards would lead to conflict if he were just to fuck the first thing that walks by.

Yes yes, I see what you mean. If he doesn't feel comfortable having a fling, then by all means he SHOULDN'T have a fling. As if i'd try to force something like that on him. I'm simply arguing your previous blanket statements on how unhealthy a fling is to get over a bad relationship. Not everyone dramatizes and makes such a big fucking crybaby deal over something so primal and simple as sex. While I don't agree that one should make a habit of sleeping around with whomever whenever, sometimes a one night stand is needed, warranted, and the perfect thing.


Now, if a person's internal standard was that sex was more important than the emotional connection that comes along with sex, then yes, perhaps that person could get over a long, emotionally turbulent relationship by random flings.

Just because the emotional connection that comes along with SOME sex is great and necessary at times, who the fuck are you to say that a person can't separate the two once in a blue moon unless their internal standard is that sex is always more important? Gimme a fucking break.

Finding the right person that you can connect to is awesome, there's nothing else like it. For me, the actual connection comes from the conversations, the time spent together, and LASTLY, from sex. I find that my lasting emotions during sex comes from all of the other reasons I feel connected to the person i'm sleeping with. The act itself of having a penis in my vagina doesn't make me all emotionally bubbly inside.


You're obviously confused and thinking I'm applying this to everyone, and for that, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I guess I am confused that you're applying this to everyone, because of this:


Does anyone else find the idea of "needing a fling" to be incredibly idiotic? Or the idea of random sex with no attachment to be incredibly unhealthy?

You weren’t exactly directing anything towards Revalos there.


...and to eliminate that from your sex life is merely a numbing effect - while you may think that's a solution, it isn't. Numbing something does not make a problem go away.

Didn't numb me one bit. Helped me to forget about the dillhole that hurt me and helped me to move on and find the right guy (who has been treating me like a princess for the past 3 years :D). Is it so hard to believe that it has worked for more than just me? Heh.


(Slut.) ;)

Sarcasm or not, I'm SO willing to bet you that in our nearly equal amount of years, i've slept with less people than you ;)


Edit: Asshole I did well, in high school. I'm a much nicer guy now.

Just to clarify, I wasn't exactly calling you an asshole. I was merely making light of HS relationships in that they can't count for too much, especially seeing how dumb most girls are in the way of choosing a boyfriend.

[Bobmuhthol]

This is so gay.

[Skeeter]

your mom is gay... and nazis

[TheEschaton]

I'm sure you have slept with less people than I. Like I said, I made lots of bad decisions in high school, which, luckily, comes in handy when one chooses to be a sexual health educator.


As if i'd try to force something like that on him. I'm simply arguing your previous blanket statements on how unhealthy a fling is to get over a bad relationship.

As for my blanket statement, I was asking if anyone found the idea of having a fling to get over a messy seperation was idiotic. Why? Because I happen to find it idiotic, especially in this situation. Why do I find it idiotic in most situations? Because in my experience, MOST PEOPLE cannnot seperate sex from emotions. Furthermore, in my experience as a sexual health educator, I wouldn't consider it healthy to seperate sex from emotion, but of course, this last sentence is my opinion (and an opinion amongst most sexual health educators, regardless of their "morality"), and in no way is a statement of fact.

-TheE-

[diethx]

I'm sure you have slept with less people than I. Like I said, I made lots of bad decisions in high school, which, luckily, comes in handy when one chooses to be a sexual health educator.

Where were you a sexual health educator? What sort of training/certification did you have to go through for this title? Who (generally) did you educate? I'm curious.

[TheEschaton]

I worked with people who had HIV, and populations which were high risk in terms of contracting HIV. My qualifications? I took lots of sociology classes as an undergrad, and did lots of on-the-job training. And I'm a voracious reader of all things, including, sometimes, books on sociology and sexual health (mainly from a feminist perspective, though, since that's what interests me).

Where I did it? I did it in my hometown of Buffalo, where I really learned the profession as a social worker (for a local HIV/AIDS NGO), and then I went to Africa to do it with some of the most severely at-risk youth in the world.

I'm sorry I don't fit into your modern 21st century mold that emotionless sex is somehow liberating. It doesn't fit, and I've seen too many instances where it's blown up in people's faces.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

Face it, I've wtfpwned you. Now, I'm going to bed. Goodnight. I'll address your numerous concerns later.

I'm not trying to sell a particular morality. In fact, I don't know that I'm selling anything at all. I'm just saying I don't believe seperating emotion from sex is a particular healthy behavior. Likewise, I don't think hitting a pillow is an effective way to deal with anger when you're angry with a specific person. Likewise, I believe in discussing one's sexual history with a partner before having sex with them IN ALL SITUATIONS, and then getting tested for everything together. Maybe it's all the slides of gonorrhea infected genitalia I've been showing people for years. Who knows?

-TheE-

[Bobmuhthol]

Gay.

[diethx]

So mainly you counseled people about AIDS and safe sex? And technically you have no real training in mental/emotional health, wherein lies the basis of your argument: how emotionless sex can be detrimental to someone's emotional health. So, what we're really coming back to is your opinion, plain and simple.


I'm sorry I don't fit into your modern 21st century mold that emotionless sex is somehow liberating. It doesn't fit, and I've seen too many instances where it's blown up in people's faces.

I'm not sorry, I really don't care how you feel about your own sex life and what you do in it. I would never judge you (or call your thoughts idiotic!) simply because your ideas about how to live your life are different than mine. And I need to get back to studying for my exam tomorrow, so i'm going to leave it at this :)

[diethx]

Face it, I've wtfpwned you.

ROFLCOPTER.

Dude, your girly (and no this isn't a judgement, simply my opinion rofl) view on sex couldn't have wtfpwned me under any circumstance. Go cry about how beautiful and amazingly emotionally intense and magical sex is in your pillow kthx.

[Celephais]

Face it, I've wtfpwned you.
Winning internet arguements will not make your penis bigger; I refer you to the multiplication property of zero.

[Gan]

ROFL

Bob wins.

[TheEschaton]

And technically you have no real training in mental/emotional health, wherein lies the basis of your argument: how emotionless sex can be detrimental to someone's emotional health.

Technically, I do. HIV/AIDS prevention is approached from a wholistic "healthy sexual relationship" standpoint (IE, people who practice healthy sexual behavior don't get HIV, is the general idea), and we were trained in mental and emotional aspects of sexual relationships.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

How is having emotionless protected sex unhealthy again?

[Clove]

How is having emotionless protected sex unhealthy again?

Sub Question: Does CT have sisters?

[Hulkein]

Some people can't have 'emotionless' sex, though. So technically just trying to bang someone can be unhealthy if the person falls in that category.

[CrystalTears]

Yes but your typical person who just wants to get laid with no strings attached, no commitments, just wants a good humping, can deal with just a wham bam thank you ma'am. Naturally it doesn't make sense to tell someone who feels that every sex act is a humongous emotional investment to have some meaningless sex. It's not going to happen.

Sometimes you need that steak when you've either 1) not had any meat in a long time and/or 2) you were sick of eating the same plain hamburger every day.

[Clove]

Some people can't have 'emotionless' sex, though. So technically just trying to bang someone can be unhealthy if the person falls in that category.

Maybe so, but is that inability unhealthy in itself? If so we should make 'em have meaningless sex until we learn 'em.

[Sean of the Thread]

Poor Revalos.. look what you guys have done to his thread with your wannabe Dr. Phil shit.

[Clove]

....Sometimes you need that steak when you've either 1) not had any meat in a long time and/or 2) you were sick of eating the same plain hamburger every day.

Nice. Now I'm horny AND hungry.

[ViridianAsp]

Some people can't have 'emotionless' sex, though. So technically just trying to bang someone can be unhealthy if the person falls in that category.


Agreed, he could just always not have sex. That's probably better than getting all emotionally attached.

[CrystalTears]

I think Revalos just needs a good humping, no new relationship, and stay single for a year or so, with the friends with benefits hump every now and again. Just have to find that friend who isn't going to stick to him like Cling Wrap just cause he wants sex.

[ViridianAsp]

There are always hookers... But, honestly if you are an emotional person, it isn't a good idea. Take it from an emotional person, you are more rational when you don't have sex and get emotionally attached to someone.

[Clove]

There are always hookers... But, honestly if you are an emotional person, it isn't a good idea. Take it from an emotional person, you are more rational when you don't have sex and get emotionally attached to someone.

Right. You wouldn't want to work on putting sex (or your emotions) in perspective or anything.

Obviously just running out and grabbing a hooker isn't going to solve your problems if you're exceptionally emotional about sex. However, unless you plan on marrying the next person you have sex with, you're going to have to face and conquer your sensitivity. From a practical perspective, not every relationship is going to be successful, or sexless.

While being emo may not be a neurosis, what you're suggesting is almost tantamount to telling an agoraphobic "it's okay honey, you may just need to spend the rest of your life in the house."

[Stanley Burrell]

Poor Revalos.. look what you guys have done to his thread with your wannabe Dr. Phil shit.

No disrespect, but equating The GemStone IV Players' Corner Forum's wall-of-text sex advice to Dr. Phil caliber is incredibly disrespectful to Dr. Phil.

Not that you personally could give hillbilly'd shit, but I'd advise Revalos to know that unless he wants to to form a new sexual relationship with the svelte reincarnation of Simon Dubois, that message board advice pales in comparison to. Much.

I think there are probably some good ideas in this thread, just better reiterated in-person through a non-internet weblog declared sexual aficionado.

Your best advice would be not to look on MMORPG logs for sexual relationship advice.

[Clove]

...unless he wants to to form a new sexual relationship with the svelte reincarnation of Simon Dubois...

...Your best advice would be not to look on MMORPG logs for sexual relationship advice.

Or for obscure historical references. I believe you meant Guillaume Dubois? Crap, I just fell prey to a Burrell-Trap, nevermind.

[TheEschaton]

Yes but your typical person who just wants to get laid with no strings attached, no commitments, just wants a good humping, can deal with just a wham bam thank you ma'am.

I'm not convinced that such a person actually exists. To the very last, all my friends who spent their late teens, and early 20s sleeping around are now dealing with a host of emotional problems now in re: to relationships and sex....both men, and women....

...dare I imply our 50% divorce rate in this country has something to do with this idea that such emotionless sex is possible? I think I just did. Human beings are emotional beings. It is more than natural in a higher mammal such as homo sapiens, that the most physically intimate of acts, should also have some sort of emotional attachment connected with it.

Sorry to Revalos for jacking his thread.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

I'm not going to touch infidelity because that's not what we're talking about here. But some men who run out and just want to get laid for the sake of getting sex are probably doing it because they're not getting it at home. And frankly, if you're not getting dinner at home, that guy is going to a restaurant for take out. Don't get pissed off at him for wanting to eat, get mad at her for not making him dinner.

People don't break up on account of infidelity. It's just a symptom that something else is wrong.
Yeah? Well that symptom is fucking my wife.

But anyway, there are lots of people who screw around and it doesn't mean anything to them other than "damn that felt good, may I have another". I don't think it's fair to sample teens when they don't know what they want for anything in life, let alone how to deal with a sex life.

[Stanley Burrell]

Or for obscure historical references. I believe you meant Guillaume Dubois? Crap, I just fell prey to a Burrell-Trap, nevermind.

No, I just meant he'd have to be really existential to take just about anything said here in the ways of relationship advice at face value and unadulterated truth.

Latrinsorm understood it, so :-P

[Clove]

Latrinsorm understood it, so :-P

"Latrinsorm gets me" FTW!

[Latrinsorm]

I'm not going to touch infidelity because that's not what we're talking about here.Who said anything about infidelity?
Latrinsorm understood it:no:

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm not convinced that such a person actually exists.
-TheE-

<----Exists

[CrystalTears]

TheE brought it up because he was talking about divorce rates, which is because of infidelity and meaningless sex with someone else.

Leave the discussion to those who actually have sex. Your left and right don't count.

[Celephais]

Your best advice would be not to look on MMORPG logs for sexual relationship advice.
Gan is going to beat you with his Pom-Poms... the PC can do ANYTHING.

[Latrinsorm]

TheE brought it up because he was talking about divorce rates, which is because of infidelity and meaningless sex with someone else.I would say he brought it up because unhealthy relationships are harder to sustain than healthy relationships and he was suggesting that the perspective in question generally leads to unhealthy relationships. We could always just ask him, though. :)

[CrystalTears]

Nah, I don't feel like asking someone who thinks it's idiotic to have meaningless sex. It may be idiotic to him, but not everyone puts the pussy on a pedestal and plays emo music and lights up some patchouli because they had some sex with some chick he picked up a bar. There's no love, just an urge.

[Warriorbird]

All of us, as well as xtc, are as qualified to make this sort of advice as Dr. Phil is.

[Gan]

Nah, I don't feel like asking someone who thinks it's idiotic to have meaningless sex. It may be idiotic to him, but not everyone puts the pussy on a pedestal and plays emo music and lights up some patchouli because they had some sex with some chick he picked up a bar. There's no love, just an urge.
Quoted because this needs repeating.

Scratching that itch FTMFW.

[CrystalTears]

I'm just waiting for the day that Latrine says a boob feels like a bag of sand, and then everything in this world will make sense once again.

[Clove]

Nah, I don't feel like asking someone who thinks it's idiotic to have meaningless sex. It may be idiotic to him, but not everyone puts the pussy on a pedestal and plays emo music and lights up some patchouli because they had some sex with some chick he picked up a bar. There's no love, just an urge.

Because when she's right- she's awesome.


I'm just waiting for the day that Latrine says a boob feels like a bag of sand, and then everything in this world will make sense once again.

But maybe a teensy bit obsessed with 40 Year Old Virgin.

[Latrinsorm]

Nah, I don't feel like asking someone who thinks it's idiotic to have meaningless sex.You don't think you should find out what he actually meant before evaluating what he said? Really?

[CrystalTears]

You think I should really listen to someone closed-minded who says this?

Does anyone else find the idea of "needing a fling" to be incredibly idiotic? Or the idea of random sex with no attachment to be incredibly unhealthy? Really?

[Latrinsorm]

I would say that you're not being any more open-minded than he is if all he has to do for you to disagree is to state his position. :)

[CrystalTears]

He stated an opinion which I don't agree with, and he's trying to tack on some education and work experience to give it some worth, when in the end, it's still an opinion, and he's spouting it as though it's fact.

So yeah, maybe you should read the whole thread and people's responses before you jump into a thread that is too big for your britches.

[Latrinsorm]

One of the odd things about modern discourse is the use of "opinion". In this case, for instance, the experience that Eschaton has cited is considered (by CT) as transparent and post facto justification for his pre-existing "opinion", and is therefore irrelevant. At the same time, CT feels no need to offer justification of any kind for her own "opinion" or for rejecting Eschaton's, but somehow Eschaton's is "closed-minded"? How does that work, exactly?

[CrystalTears]

Do you fucking read what people say? Ever? I said he's stating his opinion AS FUCKING FACT because he has some education and work experience on his side, when it's still an opinion.

There is no fact to say that having meaningless sex is automatically unhealthy. If anyone was judging others about how they live their life is Mr. Hospital Corners, of how can you live with yourself for having meaningless sex?

Now I ask that you kindly fuck off.

[Hulkein]

CT, aren't you doing the same thing that E is doing?

[CrystalTears]

Have I ever said that my opinion is fact because I worked as a sexual health therapist or some shit and my word is bond?

And you feel I'm being a hypocrite because I'm stating my opinion but it's okay for him to whip out an occupation to back up his claim, so be it.

I'll just say I was a freelance gynocologist. I know more about pussy than he does.

[Celephais]

...and my word is bond?
That part is (correctly) implied.
:respect:

[Hulkein]

Have I ever said that my opinion is fact because I worked as a sexual health therapist or some shit and my word is bond?

And you feel I'm being a hypocrite because I'm stating my opinion but it's okay for him to whip out an occupation to back up his claim, so be it.

I'll just say I was a freelance gynocologist. I know more about pussy than he does.

You said that emotionless sex, so long as it is protected, doesn't hurt anyone. Not everyone can have emotionless sex. Has the OP ever even had sex with anyone but his ex-wife? Sure, slaying a few gargoyles will help if he can stay unattached but that is terrible advice if he can't, especially coming off a divorce.

[Gan]

Wedding Crashers

Learn it.

Live it.

Love it.

[CrystalTears]

Well that may have been my fault to start because I asked what would make meaningless sex unhealthy.

If someone knows that any sex will cause him to gush over the girl regardless, then yeah, it's not a good thing. But if someone is going into it knowing it's just to get your rocks off and nothing more, I think it would be a good thing to experience, desensitize a bit from the feeling that all sex is only for emotion, and that it can be just an urge that needs to be indulged like eating or getting an itch scratched.

I just don't feel that ANY meaningless sex is AUTOMATICALLY unhealthy. I also feel that people put way too much pressure and importance of sex that it has to be connected with emotion, and it doesn't.

[Latrinsorm]

I said he's stating his opinion AS FUCKING FACT because he has some education and work experience on his side, when it's still an opinion. There is no fact to say that having meaningless sex is automatically unhealthy.Someone must have seen this coming: Did Eschaton say his opinion was fact, or were you (perhaps) not reading what he wrote?
"You're obviously confused and thinking I'm applying this to everyone"

Hmmmmmm.....
If anyone was judging others about how they live their life is Mr. Hospital Corners, of how can you live with yourself for having meaningless sex?This sentence is a little garbled, but I think I get the gist: if what Eschaton is saying is medically true, how is it "judging others" anymore than someone saying "condoms prevent stds, having sex without a condom if <conditional> is pretty dumb"? Isn't this the same thing I mentioned before, where you feel any evidence he provides is post facto and that he's factually incorrect or unsupported in some way?

[CrystalTears]

if what Eschaton is saying is medically true,
Is it?

where you feel any evidence he provides is post facto
I'll wait til he supports actual facts, rather than saying as a counselor he ran into situations where meaningless sex caused the person to be unhealthy, and that was the only factor. Not insecurities, not self-esteem, not education or current lifestyle... that strictly meaningless sex=unhealthy.

[Celephais]

Back on topic - Revalos the best advice I can give you is to go to vegascon and bring Twix... apparently that's key to getting into a girls pants.

[TheEschaton]

Wow, folks, I disappear for class, and there's a massive debate about what I said? This is what I said (and Latrin has already pointed it out):

1) I think in this particular case meaningless sex would be unhealthy.
2) I am not convinced that meaningless sex can be healthy, which is an opinion.
3) That opinion is based on what I've observed, but of course, that does not make a fact.
4) After awhile, from a sexual health standpoint, all the people I've known who've made meaningless sex their main form of sexual relationship, have had problems with relationships and marriage. This in no way is anything but anecdotal, and only applies to people who make it their ONLY form of sexual relationship.

Everything else, who knows? Regardless, I always advise my friends against random hookups for no reason, since I think treating other people like pieces of meat is rather stupid.

Edited to add: and dehumanizing, which is the main theme of the late 20th, early 21st century.

-TheE-

[Gan]

I'll just say I was a freelance gynocologist. I know more about pussy than he does.

This thread has gone 5 stars now.

[AestheticDeath]

Id prefer if you made another thread for this particular point.

You have more posts about this than what the OP was interested in.

Someone split it up!

[Latrinsorm]

Is it?I don't know. That's why I said "if". :D
I'll wait til he supports actual factsOh, I'm not saying you should be convinced by his claims, only that it's very odd for you to consider him closed-minded.

[Revalos]

Back on topic - Revalos the best advice I can give you is to go to vegascon and bring Twix... apparently that's key to getting into a girls pants. - Celephais

Noted for the record. Heh.

Honestly, I rather like to see arguments like this about what sexual health is all about. It makes me feel like less of a class A retard given my weird views on sex when it is obvious that there are strongly held views on both sides of the picture.

I've never had an urge to have casual sex to my knowledge. I've only ever had sex with one person (yes, you read that right), whom I assumed I loved at the time. As it stands right now, I still have no real desire to go out and seek sex. I wouldn't complain if I got some from some girl I felt some sort of connection with, maybe not love or anything, but at least something better than seeing a target of opportunity. But I'm fucked up in the head to begin with right now, so who knows.

Anyway, continue the discourse, I'm learning a lot here about what other people have experienced one way or the other, it is good to see all the sides.

[AestheticDeath]

:)

Still sucks trying to read basically two topics at the same time.

Anyhow I had forgotten. But about the 7k thing. Was that a shared account that she put money in too? Or was it totally your own savings and she took it?

[diethx]

Anyhow I had forgotten. But about the 7k thing. Was that a shared account that she put money in too? Or was it totally your own savings and she took it?

It was a shared account, but I believe his was the only real income in the house. So technically it was his hard-earned cash. I think he said she had some crappy low-paying job which she enjoyed (and a boss which she apparently enjoyed even more).

[Revalos]

It was a shared account, but she sure as fuck didn't deserve half of it (I make nearly 100k per year, she made about 30k per year at most). Her fucking boss told her to do it, and since she's sucking his dick now, I guess he wanted a piece of that money.

It is royally screwing me now since I went to Korea and may have to take out a loan to pay off the $7500 hotel bill because my reimbursement check won't arrive before my card payment is due. I spent my whole life being fiscally responsible to have some money in an account to hold in case of something like this and she fucked it up.

Anyway, at least the paperwork says that she owes me $1000 based on bills that she incurred before she left, so I'll get that back at the end of the year. Also, the documents stipulate that this is what is called a "clean break" where both parties mutually agree to all stipulations, which includes the fact that the house is %100 mine. So she's not getting another dime. I hope her and her boss have a good time with that seven grand, because unless she starts dealing on the streets, thats the last time she'll see money that good.

[AestheticDeath]

Really sucks that you couldn't have used a business card

My aunt and uncle have to use there cards/money like that as well. I don't think I would ever do it. Company want to send me on a trip or buy clients dinner, its on their dime up front.

[JohnDoe]

Revalos, give your card company a call and see if they'll delay billing by a few weeks (or until you get your reimbursement). Since you've been "fiscally responsible", I'm going to assume your payment history with this card company and credit rating is decent. If you explain the situation with the business trip, I'm sure they'll make an exception for you. Since most companies use the same policy (you pay and they reimburse), it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I've had to do it once after a large business trip I took.

Regarding the casual sex thing, in my experience, casual dating after a break up is always VERY healthy. Sometimes the casual dating involves casual sex. Whenever I'm in this situation, I always come clean about wanting/needing to take quite a while to become very emotionally invested. Not the easiest thing to tell someone, but I always do after we've been on a few dates and I decide I enjoy hanging out with the person. It behooves YOU as much as it does them to do this as the fall out from leading someone on ALWAYS sucks. 9 times out of 10 they're ok with it. Careful though, in my experience, some people take this as a challenge and attempt to change you/penetrate your psyche. Watch for that and put a stop to it before things get out of hand.

Oh, and some drunken one night stands always seem to help. But that's just a quick fix IMO. The dating thing is what's really healthy.

P.S., and I don't mean this to be an insult, but stop overthinking shit. Take it from someone who's done it before, stop trying to read into her every move. It's not worth the brain power, angst, stress, and all the other mental bullshit you cause yourself, which in turn usually causes you to 1) act like a buffoon 2) not be yourself 3) to do something moronic. Just relax and go with the flow. If things work out, great. If not, there are MANY other women out there. Don't pin your hopes on any one person. Soul mates are for suckers!

[Revalos]

No dice with the card company, they are all nazis and won't budge. I've got equity to tap into to get the money at 8% interest. It'll only cost me a hundred bucks or so in interest before I get reimbursed anyway.

I want this girl back:

http://imageduck.com/i/kyle_th.jpg (http://imageduck.com/v/kyle.jpg)

That was a girl I could have done crazy things with before I got married, but missed the opportunity because I didn't know how to handle her. I guess I have high standards in who I date. I don't have much of a social life to begin with, so I'll have to see what happens on that front.


P.S., and I don't mean this to be an insult, but stop overthinking shit. Take it from someone who's done it before, stop trying to read into her every move. It's not worth the brain power, angst, stress, and all the other mental bullshit you cause yourself, which in turn usually causes you to 1) act like a buffoon 2) not be yourself 3) to do something moronic. Just relax and go with the flow. If things work out, great. If not, there are MANY other women out there. Don't pin your hopes on any one person. Soul mates are for suckers! -JohnDoe

No insult taken. It is my line of work and my personality that does nothing but overanalyze and overthink shit. It is who I am and I doubt it is ever going to change. And I know I'm a sucker, that's how I ended up thinking I had a soul mate and ended up having zilch. I know there are tons of women out there...but my standards are too high. I want the full package, and if that isn't available, I won't settle for anything less. I need to get over that part of my psyche before I can move on.

[JohnDoe]

Rev - my standards are too high. Ridiculously high. Possibly on purpose, but we won't go there. I overthink, over analyze, etc. everything (not just relationships). It's in my personality as well. Part of why I'm successful in my career, what gives me an edge, and makes me a royal pain in the ass to work for or carry on a relationship with.

I'm not saying to be brainless about the whole thing, but being an intelligent person (which it seems you are), treat it like a good manager would with an issue at work. Stop yourself when you realize you may be overthinking/confusing something. Evaluate it to determine if it's worth your while to think about (i.e. is it going to do you or her any good). Then proceed accordingly. Sounds like a belabored thought process and you're right, it is. But, it gets easier (as do all things) with experience. Eventually it'll just be second nature. And let me tell you, it makes dating and relationships a hell of a lot more manageable and successful if you aren't driving yourself crazy playing the guessing game.

[Celephais]

I want this girl back:
...
That was a girl...

FYI I wouldn't go posting pics of people you don't want getting tracked back to you... there are (aptly named) trackback searches on things like google where you can find where you're being linked from, etc... last thing you'd want is to have things start to get good w/ her and then she finds your posts here.

Just something to think about... internet is dirty, serious business. (And she is hot, nice.)

[JohnDoe]

FYI I wouldn't go posting pics of people you don't want getting tracked back to you... there are (aptly named) trackback searches on things like google where you can find where you're being linked from, etc... last thing you'd want is to have things start to get good w/ her and then she finds your posts here.

Just something to think about... internet is dirty, serious business. (And she is hot, nice.)
Great point. Honestly, I wouldn't be talking about any of this shit on any public forum.

[AestheticDeath]

surely there are limits on backtracking like that

like if I posted my pic here, and someone else linked it on another page

Would I be able to backtrack it? Or only like kranar?

[Revalos]

Yeah, but you know what? I don't really care if it gets tracked back to me. I'm more interested in the discourse anyway and nothing could fuck me up any more than I already am. I'm not an idiot. I didn't come here because this is an ultra secret place. This is the internet, and it is serious business.

Besides, everyone's catharsis is different. I like this version personally. If my wife or old ex-girlfriends or new girlfriends ever found this place, more power to them. That would earn a ton of respect from me for reasons I wouldn't be able to describe, and even if it ended something good, I've already been burned on a relationship once. I'm sure a couple more times won't be any worse.

[Celephais]

surely there are limits on backtracking like that

like if I posted my pic here, and someone else linked it on another page

Would I be able to backtrack it? Or only like kranar?

Google has a "LinksTo" kind of search, where it tells you all the websites that link to a given address. So if she (and I highly doubt she would) got all the links to her album (if indeed that pic was hotlinked directly off her album) she would be able to see all the sites pointing at it.

Some photo sites will also list all of the "Referers" of image requests, akin to people who post IMChaos links.

I really really really doubt it getting back to him... but someone trolling the internet in his circle happens across it and it could spell disaster. I guess that could be said of anything posted on the PC though.

Edit: to more directly answer your question, yes you would be able to track it, you would just have to actively "track" on occasion.

[Stanley Burrell]

Just use the MS-Paint program to turn all your friends and family into giant 8-bit orange rectangles. Like, if you post a picture of yourself and there happen to be other people in it.

Now, if you post a picture with someone else in it, ye olde photoshoppe yourself in it ... And then turn them into a giant orange spraypainted blob.

And, to post an image in the retarded cat with dumb caption trend, similarly to the retarded dumb caption catpeople who post them:

http://a1.vox.com/6a00c2252b2c8f604a00c2252b2f29549d-500pi

Seriously though dude, we have people like Xyelin on these forums. You don't want that shit circulating :no:

[Revalos]

I actually just uploaded that image to a free host from an old scan I had of a wallet photo of her, by the way. I've never seen another picture online of that particular girl. It isn't from her myspace page or anything...but come to think of it...I wonder if she has a page....

[Stanley Burrell]

All I can say is that if you go to one therapy session, located not in the internet regardless of how much you think it may be bullshit, the worst that happens is you walk out without having had anything bad happen to you.

I think you have a lot of very important things to say that the right people could help you move along with, and that there'd be no shamefulness or embarrassment in wanting to seek help just like you did here.

[Revalos]

Yeah, but that costs money and this is free. And free bad advice sprinkled with good advice that I have to work to find is a hell of a lot better than expensive good advice that I feel like I could have got on the PC for free anyway.

[Stanley Burrell]

Yeah, but that costs money and this is free. And free bad advice sprinkled with good advice that I have to work to find is a hell of a lot better than expensive good advice that I feel like I could have got on the PC for free anyway.

If it makes you feel better and helps you understand things, you can't put a price on that, I don't think.

Think of it like you owe this one to yourself and it'd be along the same lines of any other way you might throw down a few dollars to ultimately get relief out of a situation. The only difference being that talking to someone who knows what they're talking about is probably more precise than message board advice.

If it was a real economic strain, then I'd say no, but if you ever get the inkling to speak to professional about it, go for it :)

[TheEschaton]

Free, but I don't think any of us have a psychology degree. ;)

[Revalos]

Alright...I'll try the snake oil therapy just to get you guys off my back. I am pretty fucked up right now, so I'm probably becoming less lucid by the post at this point.

Anyway, thanks again to y'all, and I'll be back for round three when I find out what my next life problem is.

[Shifted]

Yes but your typical person who just wants to get laid with no strings attached, no commitments, just wants a good humping, can deal with just a wham bam thank you ma'am. I'm not convinced that such a person actually exists.

The joys of not having morals and living in one of the best tourist spots in Europe.

[ViridianAsp]

Right. You wouldn't want to work on putting sex (or your emotions) in perspective or anything.

Obviously just running out and grabbing a hooker isn't going to solve your problems if you're exceptionally emotional about sex. However, unless you plan on marrying the next person you have sex with, you're going to have to face and conquer your sensitivity. From a practical perspective, not every relationship is going to be successful, or sexless.

While being emo may not be a neurosis, what you're suggesting is almost tantamount to telling an agoraphobic "it's okay honey, you may just need to spend the rest of your life in the house."


No, I'm not. I went a very long time between relationships not having sex. Because I felt it was preferable to letting emotions of intimacy get in the way of my judgment of a person.

Any idiot can go out and screw someone, but when you can step back from the situation and not dive right into intimacy you make better decisions, at least from my experience.

That isn't to say you can't go out and have 'Good Clean Fun'. *smirks*

[Shifted]

That isn't to say you can't go out and have 'Good Clean Fun'. *smirks*

The hard part is making sure it's clean.