X-Post from Officials by Jamus RE Andraste

[Khariz]

Reply

This is the first of a series of posts regarding an interaction I had recently that I feel was unacceptable. I have written feedback and got an answer that I feel is incomplete and does not address my concerns- namely, that staff may be using unofficial forum posts as data to supplant their investigations in policy enforcement, and are even logging that information on players' official accounts.

I pulled and reposted this, out of order, to remove some profanity.

8/23/2007 8:36:46 PM
>
* Neimanz just bit the dust!
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* Paradii just bit the dust!
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* Cersee just bit the dust!
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* Qrowe just bit the dust!
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Restmode: 8/23/2007 8:46:46 PM
>
* Zorganthrolimus just bit the dust!

SEND[Andraste] Got time for a little chat, Jamus?

Restmode: 8/23/2007 8:56:46 PM

>report Always for you.
>
REPORT should only be used to notify the GemStone IV staff of emergency situations or gamewide technical errors. Please use ASSIST for general support.

Message sent to all online game staff. While no staff members are currently on duty, there are likely to be several lurking behind the scenes to investigate your report. If you feel the need to speak with the staff, please type ASSIST for a list of options.

> * Baphomat just bit the dust!
>
Jamus just appeared.
You feel yourself being pulled away...
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping.
Obvious exits: none
>
Low thunder rumbles off in the distance, getting closer with each clap. As it appears to crash overhead, a sudden lightning bolt stabs at the ground with a mighty BOOM! As your vision clears, you see GameMaster Andraste standing there.
>
Andraste says, "Hey trouble."

You say, "What can I do for you."
>
Andraste says, "So, I read a very interesting thread today..."
>
Andraste says, "Http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=23849."

You exclaim, "Ooh. Dredging the old stuff!"

>
You say, "I suppose I'm still a bit behind."

You ask, "What was it I can do for you again?"
>
Andraste asks, "Anything you wanna tell me about Splissken?"

You ask, "Andraste, do you realize that was in March?"
>
Andraste nods.
>
Andraste exclaims, "A whole 5 months!"

You give your eyebrow a little workout.
>
Andraste says, "Shall I rephrase...."

You say, "Please do."
>
Andraste asks, "Anything you wanna tell me about Splissken and his recent actions?"
>
Andraste asks, "Like... today?"

You stare at Andraste.

You ask, "Can I have a clue?"

You say, "I haven't seen his name since that day."
>
* Godyva just bit the dust!
>
Andraste asks, "Is the character still yours?"

You say, "Much less thought of it."

You close your eyes for a moment.

You ask, "What if I said yes?"
>

* Step was just vaporized!

>
Andraste says, "Then we have a problem."
>
* Jadiensilver just bit the dust!
>
* Step just bit the dust!
>chat You will never ******* believe this.
You focus on transmitting your thought.
Andraste chuckles.
>
Andraste says, "If you say no, you'd have to hope an IP check verifies you."

You smile.
>
* Catrania just bit the dust!

You say, "I'm searching for the words to best describe this."
>
Andraste says, "Truth works."
>
Andraste grins at you.
>
* Higher just bit the dust!
>
* Atharin just bit the dust!
>
* Mafithian just bit the dust!
>
* Nhemerkain just bit the dust!
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* Enera just bit the dust!
>
Andraste asks, "That difficult?"

You say, "Working on it. Please bear with me."
>
Andraste gazes heavenward.
>
* Ecah just bit the dust!
>
* Ravinold just bit the dust!
>
* Rontuu just bit the dust!

You say, "In your excitement at having connected something bad with me, you appear to have overlooked the content of the 5 month old post which you're bringing up."

You say, "-Jamus: "So some punk killed my cleric in thraks last night.", [OOC]-Toy: "who was it?\", [OOC]-Jamus: "Splissken."."

You say, "The character isn't mine and never has been. And no matter how bad an influence I am, I am only one man, and simply don't have the time to be responsible for everything."
>
* Atharin just bit the dust!
>
Andraste says, "Ah... so you're saying the person who killed your cleric was Splissken."

You say, "I rather suspect therefore that you have jumped to a conclusion about me based on a preconceived bias. And I'm not pleased at all about it."

You say, "Yes. That is what I am saying."
>
Andraste says, "I'm actually going off another GM's log."
>
Andraste starts chuckling at you!
>
Andraste asks, "So, what's the name of the cleric?"

You say, "I'm not telling you."
>

You say, "I like to keep him separate so that my considerable and dubious renknown isn't inflicted upon him."
>
Andraste chuckles.
>
Andraste says, "Okay, at least give me where he was killed."
>
Andraste grins at you.

You ask, "I quite frankly don't remember. Thraks, maybe?"
>
Andraste says, "General area, doesn't have to be a specific room."
>
Andraste asks, "Do I even get a level of the character, maybe?"

You say, "Unless you have an exceedingly good reason why I should suddenly no longer be irritated and why it is any of your business at all? No."
>
Andraste says, "Whadya know... date of death and date of post matches."
>
Andraste grins at you.

You sneer.

You say, "I'm so pleased that I've made your job simpler."
>
Andraste says, "I'll be more than happy to correct the log left by the previous GM to make sure they know the difference between which was the killer and the killee."
>
Andraste says, "And no need to worry about reporting the guy..."
>
Andraste smiles at you.

You sneer.
>

You say, "As far as I'm aware, there was no report or assist in the first place. I don't know why you'd have a log to correct."
>
Andraste says, "Something the previous GM observed and felt was noteworthy."
>
Andraste shrugs.
>
Andraste says, "We log all sorts of tidbits."

You make a horrendous warthog-like noise.
>
Andraste says, "Sorry if I jumped to conclusions. As I said, I'll make sure that log is clarified."
>
* Alence just bit the dust!

You say, speaking to Andraste, "Let me be frank with you."
>
Andraste asks, "Aren't you always?"
>
Andraste grins at you.

You say, "And I mean it as an expression, so don't go pulling me if a character named Frank does something wrong."
>
* Baphomat just bit the dust!

You say, speaking to Andraste, "I used to like you rather a lot. The last 12 months or so? You've been a bully and a busybody."
>
Andraste says, "A busybody I have always been..."
>
Andraste asks, "A bully?"
>
Andraste holds up her hand and tilts it side to side in a so-so gesture.

You say, "I guess what I'm saying is,"
>
Andraste says, "Aephir... he was a bully."
>
Andraste says, "Sayzor? Definitely..."
>
Andraste says, "I'm a teddy bear in comparison."

You say, speaking to Andraste, "You should probably not ask me for any favors anytime soon. From what I hear, I might be a Bad Influence on you."
>
Andraste starts chuckling at you!
>
Andraste asks, "How could you be?"
>
Andraste grins.

You say, "If there's nothing else you need, I'd like to be put back into the game. If there is, I'd like an SGM present."
>
Andraste shrugs.
>
* Huka just bit the dust!
>
Andraste says, "I don't recall asking you for favors in the past, but your gestures have always been appreciated."
>
Andraste smiles at you.
>
* Atharin just bit the dust!
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* Aenir just bit the dust!
>
Andraste says, "Have a good night."

You say, "That will be easier once I'm done with you."
>
Andraste chuckles.
>
The world grows blurry and indistinct. After a moment everything becomes clear again. Looking about, you see...
[Sylvarraend, Town Commons]
Nestled just off the town square, this tree-shaded knoll provides ample opportunity for rest and reflection. Towering maorals spread their branches overhead, the thick leaves rustling gently with each stir of the air about them. An intricately carved wooden bench rests beneath one tree. You also see a wooden barrel.
Obvious paths: southeast
>chat *******. Insane.
You focus on transmitting your thought.
>

[Khariz]

The next day I had another interaction which expanded on my concerns about their use of unofficial forums as official information:

>
Restmode: 8/24/2007 12:18:18 PM
>chat 2010 isn't a bad goal, shaluke
You focus on transmitting your thought.
>

SEND[Andraste] Hey Jamus, don't suppose you want to give me a minute or two of your time?

>
* Allereli just bit the dust!
>
Restmode: 8/24/2007 12:28:18 PM
>report Sure, Andraste.
REPORT should only be used to notify the GemStone IV staff of emergency situations or gamewide technical errors. Please use ASSIST for general support.

Message sent to all online game staff. While no staff members are currently on duty, there are likely to be several lurking behind the scenes to investigate your report. If you feel the need to speak with the staff, please type ASSIST for a list of options.

>
* Nautia just bit the dust!
>

SEND[Andraste] Thanks.

>
Jamus just appeared.
You feel yourself being pulled away...
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping.
Obvious exits: none
>
Low thunder rumbles off in the distance, getting closer with each clap. As it appears to crash overhead, a sudden lightning bolt stabs at the ground with a mighty BOOM! As your vision clears, you see GameMaster Andraste standing there.
>
Andraste says, "Howdy."
>
Andraste smiles at you.

You nod.
>
Andraste says, "Your comments towards the end last night had me a bit puzzled."
>
* Lderer just bit the dust!
>wait
>
Time drags on by...
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Andraste says, "And then... Khaladon pointed out what is now a silly 10-page thread on the PC boards."

You say, "Before you continue; I haven't read it."
>
Andraste says, "Hmm."
>
Andraste says, "Well, so much for the lightbulb going off in my head."
>
Andraste chuckles.
>
Andraste says, "I figured since people were accusing me of using and monitoring/policing on PsiNet, that you were taking a beating."
>
* Kyleeannia just bit the dust!
>
Andraste says, "Which was why I thought the comment about bad influence suddenly made sense."

You say, "That would be silly. Everyone knows that anything particularly egregious eventually makes it to staff. Small community."
>
Andraste nods to you.
>
Andraste says, "Or as Bobmuthol posted..."
>
Andraste says, "Maybe she justs knows her name spelled backwards."
>
Andraste grins.
>
Andraste says, "Being partially dyslexic, stuff like that is pretty easy for me to spot."

* Plando just bit the dust!
>
You say, "Sorry, I don't get it."

You say, "I really haven't read the thread you're talking about."
>
Andraste nods to you.

You say, "I know something happened about dolfinsafe."
>
Andraste says, "Pretty much they're accusing GMs of secretly monitoring PsiNet."
>
Andraste chuckles.

You say, "I can't imagine it's much of a secret."
>
Andraste shrugs.

You say, [[removed for someone else's privacy]]
>
Andraste says, "And all GMs probably have friends who use PsiNet."

>who

Active Players: 376

Staff on duty:

Use WHO HELP for more options.
>psinet who
You request a count of people linked to PsiNet. (PSINET WHO FULL for a full list.)
The PsiNet informs you that there are 141 people currently linked with it.

You say, "Seems likely."

Andraste says, "So I'm sorry if you're taking a beating on this."

You say, "You're the first I've heard of it."
>
Andraste says, "Lovely."
>
Andraste grins.
>
Andraste says, "I get to add to your day."
>
Andraste says, "Last I knew, PsiNet didn't work with Macs."

You say, "A few people have managed."

You say, "Clever setups."
>
Andraste says, "I can imagine who."
>
Andraste grins.
>
Andraste says, "I'm not that clever."
>
Andraste says, "And I don't have Windows emulating software."

You say, "Nonetheless,"

You say, "It would not be the first time you were quickly reported of goings-on."
>
Andraste says, "Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if you're taking a beating from that thread, because I thought that's what you were referring to."
>
Andraste says, "And I did correct the logs, as I promised."

You cock your head.
>
Andraste says, "That's pretty much it."
>
Andraste asks, "Anything you want to add before heading back?"

You say, "I'm sorry... but I really don't believe there was a log to correct. I find it much more likely that something came up with Splissken and you did a quick search on the PC boards."

You say, "But rather than actually read the thread, which would have made it incredibly clear that you were drastically mistaken, you eagerly assumed I was at fault."

You say, "Unless you've all taken to logging PC threads."

You say, "Which, frankly, would be significantly more dismaying."
>
Andraste says, "You're perogative to believe that, howeever, there was a log note with just a partial snippet which led several GMs to misinterpret."
>

Andraste says, "And, as I promised, I've corrected that misimpression in the logs."
>
Andraste says, "I don't believe I've lied to you before, Jamus, and I really have no reason to lie to you now, but you're free to believe what you wish."

You say, "The only connection between me and Splissken was in that post."
>
Andraste nods to you.

You say, "So again, if there was a log to correct.. it means you're making notes on what you see on the PC."

You say, "Which, if you are, let me make a suggestion."

You say, "Policy 9."
>
Andraste says, "And not having the whole post logged, but just the first few lines of it..."

You stare at Andraste.
>
Andraste says, "Did create a misimpression."

You say, "Wooow."
>
Andraste asks, "Anything else or ready to head back?"

You say, "I really don't know what else I'd say."
>
Andraste nods to you.

You say, "I'm glad that PC posts are on my record."

You say, "Or were."

You say, "Or anyone's."

You say, "Just.. wow."
>
Andraste says, "Have a good rest of the day."
>
Andraste smiles at you.
>
Andraste waves to you.
>
The world grows blurry and indistinct. After a moment everything becomes clear again. Looking about, you see...

[Latrinsorm]

Sorry if I jumped to conclusions.lol.

So Andraste's trying to get fired at this point, right?

[Khariz]

Dude, I totally think so.

She ADMITTED in that log that the GMs log Players Corner posts and put them on character files. That's fucked up to me.

[Latrinsorm]

Especially because it offers the hilarious possibility of starting an account claiming to be someone else and raise a ruckus about something staff-related. I could claim to be Sergey, for instance. I've already got the peanut butter, after all.

[Khariz]

Especially because it offers the hilarious possibility of starting an account claiming to be someone else and raise a ruckus about something staff-related. I could claim to be Sergey, for instance. I've already got the peanut butter, after all.

Hmm, yeah. I'm gonna make an account on here and start claiming that I'm players that I'm not.

I'm then going to fake logs of me killing and harassing other people and see if I can get the real guy banned.

Awesome.

[Snapp]

Wow.

Also..

Posted by Jamus

You say, "And I mean it as an expression, so don't go pulling me if a character named Frank does something wrong."
:lol:

[Latrinsorm]

Haha, you don't even have to claim to be the guy, now that I think of it. You could just post a "log" and make up any old thing you please. IRL death threats, bigoted language of your choice, the whole nine yards.

[Khariz]

Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that too.

[Venom]

I'm absolutely stunned. Especially considering that every time I've had issues with any one person and been spoken to by a GM or the rhetoric-spewing Hosts.. I've always offered logs for their review.

And every time (three times, I believe) I've been turned down and told that they no longer lend any weight to player-created logs due to the possibility of falsification. Yet PC is official enough to include in an accounts official records?

Sounds like they need to wake up and smell what they're shoveling.

[Sthrockmorton]

So does anyone know what did Splissken did today that caused the ruckus in the first place?

[Khariz]

I'm still stunned.

It's not going to change anything for me though. I'm still gonna badmouth GMs and say whatever the fuck I want here. If they are going to use my posts here against me in game...

Well they can go right fucking ahead.

[CrystalTears]

Wow, she is seriously and admittingly retarded.

[Khariz]

You know, this makes me wonder something.

I wonder if she pulled this shit KNOWING that it would get back to this board as some kind of shitty way of saving face by showing that GMs use this board for "legitimate" research purposes.

I highly doubt that, but if she did, it just backfired into her extremely ugly face.

[Recal]

Re: GMs basing their investigations and actions on unofficial forums? [CLOSED] · on 8/30/2007 8:34:48 PM 37530


Reply

This thread was hidden and closed because the discussion addressed a specific interaction with a staff member over a suspected policy violation.

Specific complaints regarding the behavior of the GSIV staff in such situations should be referred to Feedback. If the response from Feedback is unsatisfactory, the issue should be remanded to their attention, not posted on the public forums for open discussion.

Issues with staff handling of situations can be warranted in a constructive, respectful fashion if brought up in a general way that does not involve specific staff members or players associated with those situations.

I appreciate your understanding, and if anyone has questions about the policy, I'd ask that you send an e-mail to myself or GM Emeradan for clarification.

Setous
MOD-GSSETOUS@PLAY.NET
Gemstone IV Forums

[Khariz]

Re: GMs basing their investigations and actions on unofficial forums? [CLOSED] · on 8/30/2007 8:34:48 PM 37530


Reply

This thread was hidden and closed because the discussion addressed a specific interaction with a staff member over a suspected policy violation.

Specific complaints regarding the behavior of the GSIV staff in such situations should be referred to Feedback. If the response from Feedback is unsatisfactory, the issue should be remanded to their attention, not posted on the public forums for open discussion.

Issues with staff handling of situations can be warranted in a constructive, respectful fashion if brought up in a general way that does not involve specific staff members or players associated with those situations.

I appreciate your understanding, and if anyone has questions about the policy, I'd ask that you send an e-mail to myself or GM Emeradan for clarification.

Setous
MOD-GSSETOUS@PLAY.NET
Gemstone IV Forums

And that, my friends, is EXACTLY why I saved it by moving it to here.

[Sorchia]

Andraste says, "I'm a teddy bear in comparison."



Oh please, you my dear can not be compaired to anyone. You are a one of a kind. No others like you. A diamond*cough*zircon*cough*in the ruff.

However, She needs to get shit canned. She is giving all the other GM's a bad name. I say fuck the Troll and buy a Caddy.

[Fallen]

Not surprising it was pulled. You can't post stuff like that on the officials, not without vaguerizing the hell out of it first.

[Khariz]

Not surprising it was pulled. You can't post stuff like that on the officials, not without vaguerizing the hell out of it first.

Indeed not, but I think this needs to be seen and discussed.

[JamusPsi]

Indeed not, but I think this needs to be seen and discussed.

Which is why it went up there and is going back. I'll strip it as many times as necessary until it fits their policy. :)

[Xaerve]

Indeed not, but I think this needs to be seen and discussed.

Agreed.

[AestheticDeath]

Or until they ban you from their forums... It would not surprise me.

[Sorchia]

Personaly her actions was not that of a concerned GM looking after the game but a someone sticking a nose where it dont belong. She needs a refreasher on GS policy and to keep her big ass out of shit that happened five months ago. I also highly doubt that another GM was concerned with what went on that far back. She is a busybody.

[JamusPsi]

Or until they ban you from their forums... It would not surprise me.

Oh noeS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sorchia]

Oh noeS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

[thefarmer]

Apparently I'm missing something, and if I am point it out.

Where did she say that PC posts were put into player files?

Did she not mention that a GameMother (apparently not herself) made a notation from an In-Game occurance?

I'm not defending her. I'm trying to understand what folks got that I didn't.

[Sthrockmorton]

Andraste says, "General area, doesn't have to be a specific room."
>
Andraste asks, "Do I even get a level of the character, maybe?"

You say, "Unless you have an exceedingly good reason why I should suddenly no longer be irritated and why it is any of your business at all? No."
>
Andraste says, "Whadya know... date of death and date of post matches."
>


The post was a PC thread and apparently (from that comment) the "log" she was using to work from. It appears she couldnt figure out when it all occurred (obviously they didnt have an official GS log of it at this point), so she used the PC thread date to find the date of the death.

This is just what I've gathered, feel free to point me in the right direction though

[AestheticDeath]

You say, "Policy 9."
>
Andraste says, "And not having the whole post logged, but just the first few lines of it..."

You stare at Andraste.
>
Andraste says, "Did create a misimpression."

You say, "Wooow."

I believe some people are crazed over this part.

[JamusPsi]

Reposted to officials:

<<Discussion about issues involving staff handling of situations can be warranted in a constructive, respectful fashion if brought up in a general way that does not involve specific staff members or players associated with those situations. Each thread is reviewed on its own merits.>>

As my first attempt was not acceptable per the board guidelines, I have revised the post such that it more specifically addresses my concerns rather than one particular incident.

I recently was told something alarming by someone who shall not be named in this thread, so as to avoid addressing any particular interaction between myself and any particular staff member.

A post from an unofficial forum site (Player's Corner) had been logged to my official player record by a GM. This information was later drawn upon by a second GM for investigation.

Without referring to any particular interaction with staff, is it the policy of Simutronics and its staff to officially transcribe the content of posts to unofficial websites, into the official account records of its customers?

If this is the case, I am extremely concerned about the implications. It is alarming that such posts, despite being unverifiable, are being logged as fact within official logs. What is to stop a feigned or maliciously inaccurate post from being recorded on a player's account? Were someone to brag about bug abuse under another name, could they expect their victim to be harassed or investigated because of it? Or to have that fake bragging recorded permanently to their victim's player record?

This is an unacceptable practice, and I will be relieved to hear from an official source that it is not the case and that I misunderstood what I was told. Feedback, in this case, was unclear as to the state of this practice.

[Sorchia]

You say, "Policy 9."
>
Andraste says, "And not having the whole post logged, but just the first few lines of it..."

You stare at Andraste.
>
Andraste says, "Did create a misimpression."

You say, "Wooow."

And yet she is still a GM.

[diethx]

You say, "So again, if there was a log to correct.. it means you're making notes on what you see on the PC."

You say, "Which, if you are, let me make a suggestion."

You say, "Policy 9."
>
Andraste says, "And not having the whole post logged, but just the first few lines of it..."
You stare at Andraste.
>
Andraste says, "Did create a misimpression."
You say, "Wooow."


If i'm not mistaken, she just admitted to having logged the first few lines of his PC post, Vivaldi.

Edit: Yay for not refreshing before responding!

[Fallen]

Did that get pulled too, Jamus? I didn't see it go up.

[JamusPsi]

Did that get pulled too, Jamus? I didn't see it go up.

Appears to have. Emailing the moderators. If it's not acceptable, I will find a way to make it acceptable. I want this addressed and I want people to hear it. Andraste is not my concern.

[Recal]

If i'm not mistaken, she just admitted to having logged the first few lines of his PC post, Vivaldi.

Edit: Yay for not refreshing before responding!

Except the post she was referring to wasn't even his post, it was from a third-party flaming Jamus. Which in my opinion is even worse.

[DCSL]

Wow. I guess I can't really comment, since I don't play anymore, but sheesh. I find it hard to spin this in a way that would be acceptable under current policy.

[Sean]

Hmm, yeah. I'm gonna make an account on here and start claiming that I'm players that I'm not.

I'm then going to fake logs of me killing and harassing other people and see if I can get the real guy banned.

Awesome.

If you want to get banned go ahead.

[diethx]

If you want to get banned go ahead.

Do you mean banned from GS? Or banned from the PC?

[Sean]

PC...

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=673

(b) intentionally impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, an official member of Simutronic's staff, a member of the Players’ Corner, misrepresent yourself as a Staff member of the Players’ Corner, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person, group, or entity.

[Venom]

If you want to get banned go ahead.

I think (or rather I hope) that he was being sarcastic.

[Sean]

I'd assume he was also. Just consider it a PSA for the stupid person who would take what he said literally and think it was a good idea.

[Warriorbird]

Holy shit. I didn't even have to TRY to make her look bad. She did it all herself.

Are you logging this to my inactive account now Marsha? Because you're totally sure it is me.

[Celephais]

I'd assume he was also. Just consider it a PSA for the stupid person who would take what he said literally and think it was a good idea.
I appreciate the PSA.

Signed,
The stupid person

*Didn't actually think it was a good idea, but for some reason the other day I was having trouble finding the ToS... I was expecting them to be somewhere in the FAQ or whatever, not an actual post.

[Bobmuhthol]

I love how I was directly (though I don't know how the fuck GMs can still spell my name wrong 7 years later...) mentioned in that log. I'm a goddamn hero.

[thefarmer]

The post was a PC thread and apparently (from that comment) the "log" she was using to work from. It appears she couldnt figure out when it all occurred (obviously they didnt have an official GS log of it at this point), so she used the PC thread date to find the date of the death.

This is just what I've gathered, feel free to point me in the right direction though


Andraste says, "I'll be more than happy to correct the log left by the previous GM to make sure they know the difference between which was the killer and the killee."

I understood this to mean Andraste following up (Whether right or wrong) on something another GM made a mention of, then she looked at the PC (Whether instructed to or of her own accord, I saw no indication of) to find out more information. Then she pulled in Jamus to verify one way or the other.

I got that she used a posted log on the PC for information and whether or not this was proper isn't what I'm questioning. I'm just not getting where she pulled him up simply because of the log posted on the PC.

[Donquix]

Hi, i'm bat-shit crazy
.

[Sean]

She pulled him up to question him about a character he doesn't own because someone misread the post and noted it incorrectly that Jamus = Splisken . Or atleast that's my take on it.

Not to defend her or anything but just a side note that it's probably the 1st log/experience i've seen with andraste where she wasn't a complete bitch and at least tried to be helpful even if her inital actions were questionable.

[Asha]

Everyone's on about Andraste. If she's a proper A-whore she'll be loving this.

[Gan]

Holy


Fucking


Cow.


This is like a really twisted soap opera gone really bad.

[diethx]

PC...

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=673

(b) intentionally impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, an official member of Simutronic's staff, a member of the Players’ Corner, misrepresent yourself as a Staff member of the Players’ Corner, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person, group, or entity.

Oh ok I thought so, just wasn't sure :)

[Ignot]

She doesn't have anything better to do then to pull up shit that happened 5 months ago? She wasn't rude or anything but the whole thing just seems strange.

I guess it can't be helped that things from the PC will leak over IG even for GM's. After all, if it is posted on the PC then it has to be true.

[Celephais]

She pulled him up to question him about a character he doesn't own because someone misread the post and noted it incorrectly that Jamus = Splisken . Or atleast that's my take on it.

Not to defend her or anything but just a side note that it's probably the 1st log/experience i've seen with andraste where she wasn't a complete bitch and at least tried to be helpful even if her inital actions were questionable.

It looks to me that Splisken did something shitty just now and she was looking into it, there was a note on Splisken's account that he was owned by Jamus, as in someone saw the post on the PC, and made a note that Splisken=Jamus, Splisken does something shitty and they call up Jamus because he was online..

[Celephais]

Meth... go back and edit this post: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=564442&postcount=30

It deserves the animated GIF sigh.

[Mosquito]

Obviously, taking anything posted on these boards as factual is a big mistake.

[Gan]

Obviously, taking anything posted on these boards as factual is a big mistake.

This is funny on so many different levels. None of them in your favor.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mosquito]

This is funny on so many different levels. None of them in your favor.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, your wife was in favor last night.

[Asha]

Obviously, taking anything posted on these boards as factual is a big mistake.

Just becouse you believe that doesn't mean it's true.
Usually anything directed at you was just telling you , you were wrong.
You had good points once and I agreed with them.
There was an end to your posting life and it was when anything you said became a joke and unbelievable.
You're an idiot becouse you're still posting here.
Nothing you say means anything at all.

[Mosquito]

Just becouse you believe that doesn't mean it's true.
Usually anything directed at you was just telling you , you were wrong.
You had good points once and I agreed with them.
There was an end to your posting life and it was when anything you said became a joke and unbelievable.
You're an idiot becouse you're still posting here.
Nothing you say means anything at all.

I think there is a good song in there somewhere. Need help with a title? Message Board Blues.

[Warriorbird]

Switch back to Backlash or hide better and don't post in political threads.

[Gan]

Things I learned from Andraste's exchange with Jamus:

1. GM's cant access all account info when working/dealing with specific characters in game; otherwise she would not have had to ask Jamus if he still owned the other character.

2. Each character in game has a 'log' or 'notes' section to their player folder that GM's can add commentary for other GM's to use when evaluating and or assessing the need to apply their discretionary authority when the need arises. (How many of you openly admit to AFK scripting again?)

3. That GM's can correct notes made by other GM's (is this a delete/overwrite function? or as an amendment style denoting date/time/amender/amendment?)

4. "Andraste says, We log all sorts of tidbits." Meaning tidbits based on information gleaned in and out of game, in official and non official mediums. Scary, very scary.

5. Exactly what favors has Andraste asked for from Jamus, and what was received?

6. "And then... Khaladon pointed out what is now a silly 10-page thread on the PC boards.": Not like we dont know they read up on topics here, its nice to know the depth of attention topics here get from the SIMU GM staff.

7. "Andraste says, I figured since people were accusing me of using and monitoring/policing on PsiNet, that you were taking a beating." : Nothing like a little diversion to move the attention away from her actions, especially since they can not censor what is said here like what can be done on the offiicals. Lets blame it all on PSINET...

8. "Andraste says, Pretty much they're accusing GMs of secretly monitoring PsiNet." : Directly or indirectly, its happening. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

8.a. " Andraste says, "And all GMs probably have friends who use PsiNet." : And all GM's have more than one computer. And, considering all GM's arent supposed to use PSINET, all GM's would not readily admit to using it either.

9. "Andraste says, Last I knew, PsiNet didn't work with Macs." : Funny how she 'thinks' PSINET doesnt work with Macs but readily knows about windows emulating software that some use to access PSINET with Macs. OOPS?

10. Andraste and possibly other GM staff are using the PC as a crossreference database to do name searches of characters in order to cross reference character ownership and enhanced monitoring of players of dubious reputation, or just simply characters in question. (see #2)

11. And LOL at using IP checks as evidence in anything. I'll never own a static IP address again, or use an ISP that requires me to have a static IP. Perhaps someone should explain to Andraste how dynamic IP addresses work versus static IP addresses.

[thefarmer]

She doesn't have anything better to do then to pull up shit that happened 5 months ago? She wasn't rude or anything but the whole thing just seems strange.

I guess it can't be helped that things from the PC will leak over IG even for GM's. After all, if it is posted on the PC then it has to be true.

It does seem strange, I'll grant you, but it really seems like something happened recently with that Splissken(sp) guy, some other GM made a note that indicated he had something to do with Jamus, and she pulled Jamus up to confirm.

Yes, she refered to the PC postings, but the initial request to talk was based on a notation from an In-Game event prior.

This is my more thorough interpertation of the OP's log. Apprently many folks diagree, which is fine and their right.

[Skeeter]

I imagine the "log" she was looking at was a complete fabrication. It just reeks of fishiness.

[Asha]

I think there is a good song in there somewhere. Need help with a title? Message Board Blues.

I've been as lost as you are now, and I've admitted to some horrible shit.
But I've never seen this kind of twatism before!
You might have fucked up in the threads where Gan or PB Owned you but why did you have to create a new name to kick ass with?
My message board blues doesn't include you becouse now, I ignore you like I do new posters.
You should have kept your name.
You mean nothing now, but unlike before when you were a cock and everybody knew,
Now you're a cock and you're completely pathetic and faceless.

You really have become a shitface and like your last name, I hope you fucking fade to nothing.
Becouse you are.

[Mosquito]

Thank you, Gan. That was my entire point with my on-topic post. Nothing is provable on this board. Take anything from this board into a court of law, let alone a real life conversation, or in this case a GMing capacity, and you would be laughed right out of town.

[Gan]

Well, your wife was in favor last night.

At best thats weak.


And PS. At least I have a wife. ;)

[Mosquito]

At best thats weak.


And PS. At least I have a wife. ;)

Funny, she told me she was single. :)

[Gan]

Funny, she told me she was single. :)

Lame and yet you still keep it up.

Just you and rosey again tonight eh?

[ViridianAsp]

Fuck you Andraste, Hope that goes in the old profile.

I'm done with Gemstone. (by done, I mean after Hadya's event.)

[thefarmer]

Things I learned from Andraste's exchange with Jamus:

[QUOTE=Gan;621471] 1. GM's cant access all account info when working/dealing with specific characters in game; otherwise she would not have had to ask Jamus if he still owned the other character..

I've always understood this to be the case.


2. Each character in game has a 'log' or 'notes' section to their player folder that GM's can add commentary for other GM's to use when evaluating and or assessing the need to apply their discretionary authority when the need arises. (How many of you openly admit to AFK scripting again?).

Ditto


3. That GM's can correct notes made by other GM's (is this a delete/overwrite function? or as an amendment style denoting date/time/amender/amendment?).

Ditto


4. "Andraste says, We log all sorts of tidbits." Meaning tidbits based on information gleaned in and out of game, in official and non official mediums. Scary, very scary..

I don't see why this should be a surprise.


5. Exactly what favors has Andraste asked for from Jamus, and what was received?.

I can't speak to this, but I hope it was dirty.


6. "And then... Khaladon pointed out what is now a silly 10-page thread on the PC boards.": Not like we dont know they read up on topics here, its nice to know the depth of attention topics here get from the SIMU GM staff..

If you don't agree with something wouldn't you call it silly too? Though, probably with more choice words.



7. "Andraste says, I figured since people were accusing me of using and monitoring/policing on PsiNet, that you were taking a beating." : Nothing like a little diversion to move the attention away from her actions, especially since they can not censor what is said here like what can be done on the offiicals. Lets blame it all on PSINET....

And here it just looked like she was apologizing for Jamus getting flack. Though this can be spun any way one chooses.


8. "Andraste says, Pretty much they're accusing GMs of secretly monitoring PsiNet." : Directly or indirectly, its happening. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

Quack! Quack!


8.a. " Andraste says, "And all GMs probably have friends who use PsiNet." : And all GM's have more than one computer. And, considering all GM's arent supposed to use PSINET, all GM's would not readily admit to using it either..

I think she was implying that the GM's don't particularly need to run PsiNet if friends are willing to inform them of what's going on.


9. "Andraste says, Last I knew, PsiNet didn't work with Macs." : Funny how she 'thinks' PSINET doesnt work with Macs but readily knows about windows emulating software that some use to access PSINET with Macs. OOPS?.

I believe she meant that PsiNet didn't work directly with a Mac without an interface that she's not savvy enough to use.


10. Andraste and possibly other GM staff are using the PC as a crossreference database to do name searches of characters in order to cross reference character ownership and enhanced monitoring of players of dubious reputation, or just simply characters in question. (see #2).

I don't see where in policy it states that they can't? If there is, then it's wrong. If there isn't, then I don't see the issue.


11. And LOL at using IP checks as evidence in anything. I'll never own a static IP address again, or use an ISP that requires me to have a static IP. Perhaps someone should explain to Andraste how dynamic IP addresses work versus static IP addresses.

Nothing to say for this point.

I'm not looking to defend her, or any other GM's actions. I'm just not seeing the interaction with Jamus as that big of a deal. Maybe I'm in the minority.

[Mosquito]

Lame and yet you still keep it up.

Just you and rosey again tonight eh?

Now you know why she is asleep already.

[Gan]

Now you know why she is asleep already.

Give it up dude. Seriously.

[Mosquito]

Sorry bro, she was hurtin for a squirtin.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<11. And LOL at using IP checks as evidence in anything. I'll never own a static IP address again, or use an ISP that requires me to have a static IP. Perhaps someone should explain to Andraste how dynamic IP addresses work versus static IP addresses.>>

Perhaps someone should explain to you how IP addresses work as a whole. Dynamic IPs don't exactly come from any random block.

[Gan]

Sorry bro, she was hurtin for a squirtin.

Take a good look folks. This is what was once the infamous Backlash.

[Gan]

<<11. And LOL at using IP checks as evidence in anything. I'll never own a static IP address again, or use an ISP that requires me to have a static IP. Perhaps someone should explain to Andraste how dynamic IP addresses work versus static IP addresses.>>

Perhaps someone should explain to you how IP addresses work as a whole. Dynamic IPs don't exactly come from any random block.

And yet they're still not the same as a static IP. Which was my point. Reading comprehension is your friend.

[Bobmuhthol]

Dude, if you think it's impossible to get identified because you have a dynamic IP, then I feel very bad for you.

[Shari]

Andraste says, "I'm not that clever."


NO SHIT!?!


Also, why the FUCK does she assume that Jamus is taking the heat for Psinet because she's using it to get people in trouble for stuff they've said?(yet nothing they've done in-game warrants a warning?) I would never be upset at a creator of something I use because someone (GMs) choose to abuse it and take shit out of context?


Snippets on our char folder you say?

Andraste is a dried-up, sand-scrubbed, dirty old cunt. Snippet that, you fucking bitch.

[thefarmer]

Andraste says, "I'm not that clever."


NO SHIT!?!


Also, why the FUCK does she assume that Jamus is taking the heat for Psinet because she's using it to get people in trouble for stuff they've said?(yet nothing they've done in-game warrants a warning?) I would never be upset at a creator of something I use because someone (GMs) choose to abuse it and take shit out of context?


Snippets on our char folder you say?

Andraste is a dried-up, sand-scrubbed, dirty old cunt. Snippet that, you fucking bitch.

It's an apology. Why make it an issue?

[Gan]

Dude, if you think it's impossible to get identified because you have a dynamic IP, then I feel very bad for you.

4 billion IPv4 addresses worldwide (including private network and multicast networks).

Spread that range over regional internet registries and you still have millions within specific regions.

On the local level involving a forum admin or a game master to have the ability to directly match a short lease dynamic IP address of a previous login session to a current login session, I'd say yes, almost impossible.

On a law enforcement level where the ISP can be subponeaed and the RIR blocks traced to specific IP's assigned to specific (mac addressed) modems, and yes, its traceable.

Keep your statement in scope and you'll see that yes, for the purposes of THIS DISCUSSION, its almost impossible for the GM's to use IP matching as a means of confirming same account login by someone who uses a short lease dynamic IP with the current tools at their disposal.

[Khariz]

It's an apology. Why make it an issue?

Come on man. It's seething buillshit, not an apology. She's lying through her fucking teeth.

[thefarmer]

Andraste says, "So I'm sorry if you're taking a beating on this."

Er. How is this bullshit?

[Gan]

Andraste says, "So I'm sorry if you're taking a beating on this."

Er. How is this bullshit?


You're blind. She's diverting. Someone more attuned to political BS can see that a mile away.

[Khariz]

You're blind. She's diverting. Someone more attuned to political BS can see that a mile away.

I was gonna try an be a bit nicer about to, but yea, exactly.

[Gan]

PS.

For all the GM's who are doing name searches, I'll update your records.

I no longer own the following characters who were at one time my primary playing characters.
Jaken
Ganalon
Randem

So any idiocy done by these characters is not done by my hands, anymore. ;)

And good luck tracing my current character. Only a few know who that is, and yes its been mine since inception.

[Gelston]

Diverting from what? If I were her I wouldn't have apologized for shit, there is no other reason for her pulling Jamus up the second time.

[thefarmer]

You're blind. She's diverting. Someone more attuned to political BS can see that a mile away.

You can spin it any way you want. You have a clear dislike/hate of Andraste, and possibly others on staff, so of course you're going to see it as a diversion.

[Bobmuhthol]

Some BS about why dynamic IPs are uber1337.

Fine, believe whatever you want.

[That Jay]

(I wonder if they would allow the following post on the official boards.)

Fairly recently, it has come to my attention that posts from unofficial forums can be logged by GM staff to one's account/character.

Until now I had not considered that staff would attach information gleamed from outside the game to one's account for purposes of enforcing policy.

Certainly, the veracity of such sources is suspect so the usefulness of this easily faked information is limited in the extreme.

Knowing that logs can be made up from whole cloth and were generally not relied on from official forums, then why should such things be given credence from even more dubious unofficial forums?

You would think that such intelligence gathering would be limited to corroboration of in-game initiated matters as opposed to starting an investigation based on an outside source.

Only for that very limited purpose could I see attaching such information to player logs and then to be used sparingly when the information is double and triple checked.

Unfortunately, it appears such is not the case as such unofficial posts have been used at the starting point for discipline investigations instead of support.

Although I am well aware that folks may be more willing or, indeed, able to express what may be the truth of certain matters on an unofficial message board, I fear that there is also more leeway for outright fabrication as well.

Now, I will be first to admit that I, myself, have used such forums to express concerns that cannot be expressed due to policy on official forums and I hope readers will give them some credence while still using a grain of salt.

Does it really serve the game as a whole though to rely on such sources as a PRIMARY source as opposed to a SECONDARY or supplemental source in investigations of possible policy infractions or attached as uncomplementary information in player logs?

Really. I find the potential for abuse of information and abuse of staff power very troubling and agree that this matter should be addressed.

All should agree that fairness and impartiality should be bywords of staff enforcement and yet the implication of reliance on unofficial forums seems to run counter to both.

So I feel it in the best interest of engendering continuing customer goodwill to have staff clarify in no uncertain terms the extent to which they will rely on out of game information sources.

There should be a statement by the powers that be secondary sources will be treated as just that and not be the sole basis or indeed the starting point of investigations/resolutions.

Everyone would benefit from adherence to such a rational and even-handed policy and accusations of staff vendettas or abuse of power would be greatly reduced by so doing.

[Silent_Willy]

This thread is full of 2 types of people. Dumbasses who hate GM's because something happened to someone who posts on these boards, and they in turn posted the log. And people who are trying to hijack the thread. Guess which one I am.

[thefarmer]

(I wonder if they would allow the following post on the official boards.)

You would think that such intelligence gathering would be limited to corroboration of in-game initiated matters as opposed to starting an investigation based on an outside source.

Only for that very limited purpose could I see attaching such information to player logs and then to be used sparingly when the information is double and triple checked.

Unfortunately, it appears such is not the case as such unofficial posts have been used at the starting point for discipline investigations instead of support.

Everyone would benefit from adherence to such a rational and even-handed policy and accusations of staff vendettas or abuse of power would be greatly reduced by so doing.


I don't see Andraste pulling up Jamus because of a PC log. I see her pulling him up because of a notation of an in-game occurance by another GM, while referencing the PC log because she was either told or found it herself.

[That Jay]

ZZZZZT! You lose!

Next player!

[thefarmer]

Ok?

[Shari]

Andraste says, "So, I read a very interesting thread today..."
>
Andraste says, "Http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=23849."


….

Andraste asks, "Anything you wanna tell me about Splissken and his recent actions?"
>
Andraste asks, "Like... today?"

So here’s my question, why pull him in the first place? Because some GM made a notation about him being Splissken in the past? Which, in fact, wasn’t even his character? I’m assuming, of course, that the notation was the false assumption that Splissken = Jamus. Once Jamus had stated that Splissken wasn’t his, why keep him? She just keeps going on with her “witty” condescending nature. Furthermore, why pull him up a second time just to prove her “innocence” that she doesn’t use PsiNet? Why the fuck would he care, honestly? And would she really expect him to believe it in the first place?

Before I posted my own Andraste Hate-Thread I want it to be known that I had no problem with her. In fact, I have never had a problem with any GM, ever. But I am disgusted at the idea that they use PsiNet comments and PC comments in-game to their supposed advantage. If a GM jumped on PC and said a string of nasty shit to/about me on there I’d most definitely rip them a new one right back…but I would certainly not use it in game.

And lastly…I wanna know what Splissken did recently that was so bad that Jamus was getting pegged for blame on it. :D

I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT THIS: Isn't it a violation of account policy for Andraste to mention that Splissken was in deep shit? Hmmmm....Because really, couldn't she have waited until Splissken logged on to pull him, or even put a hold on his account in order to "set things" right instead of yanking Jamus into it? I mean, if she can verify IP addresses, I'm sure she could have figured out that Splissken and Jamus were under two totally different accounts.

[Donquix]

4 billion IPv4 addresses worldwide (including private network and multicast networks).

Spread that range over regional internet registries and you still have millions within specific regions.

On the local level involving a forum admin or a game master to have the ability to directly match a short lease dynamic IP address of a previous login session to a current login session, I'd say yes, almost impossible.

On a law enforcement level where the ISP can be subponeaed and the RIR blocks traced to specific IP's assigned to specific (mac addressed) modems, and yes, its traceable.

Keep your statement in scope and you'll see that yes, for the purposes of THIS DISCUSSION, its almost impossible for the GM's to use IP matching as a means of confirming same account login by someone who uses a short lease dynamic IP with the current tools at their disposal.

Yeah, not exactly.

They're in blocks, blocks allocated by ISP. How many people from a given region's ISP block do you think actually play gemstone?

It's not a court of law, they don't have to prove shit beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now, are things so bad with simu? i don't know. I know andraste is poping around willy nilly tossing around accusations like crazy and flexing her muscle as she sees fit, monitor whispers she has no business monitoring, etc. Is it so much of a cognitive leap to say she can reprimand people in game with little to no substantiation beyond similar but different IP logs?

[Drew2]

The pic in Diethx's sig CRACKS ME THE FUCK UP.

[Jayvn]

Holy shit it's a good thing no one will ever find out who I play in gs !!!

[Krendeli]

You know all the attention she is getting must be over-inflating her ego...just like the rest of her body.

[Sean]

I don't see Andraste pulling up Jamus because of a PC log. I see her pulling him up because of a notation of an in-game occurance by another GM, while referencing the PC log because she was either told or found it herself.

Lets try this. If the log hadn't been posted here do you think Jamus would have been confused with ssplisken's owner and pulled into the lounge?

[Ilvane]

I sincerely hope that this all gets looked at.

Angela

[Trouble]

11. And LOL at using IP checks as evidence in anything. I'll never own a static IP address again, or use an ISP that requires me to have a static IP. Perhaps someone should explain to Andraste how dynamic IP addresses work versus static IP addresses.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I have a quick comment on this item: If you use anything other than dial-up, odds are you have the same IP address for long periods of time. If you have cable or DSL, it's on most of the time (unless you purposely turn it off) and refreshes its IP lease half-way into the lease duration. So unless the modem is powered off around half-way through the lease duration (and again 3/4 of he way through too? I forget now), you'll keep the IP. Also, if you play from work/school, odds are you're using their IP address (via NAT), which would usually be static. I'm not sure how something like AOL would work, as in if you'd be reported from their proxy servers or from your actual IP. I haven't used AOL in years.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I agree with the bat shit crazy comment.

:thumbup:

[Some Rogue]

I agree with the bat shit crazy comment.

:thumbup:

Rat shit, bat shit, dirty old twat
69 assholes tied in a knot
Hooray
Lizard Shit
FUCK!

[Parkbandit]

Sorry bro, she was hurtin for a squirtin.

If it was from you, the proper term would be "a squirtin"

[Shifted]

Perhaps someone should explain to you how IP addresses work as a whole. Dynamic IPs don't exactly come from any random block.

If it's your personal network, you can control what IP address you assign yourself to some extent.


They're in blocks, blocks allocated by ISP. How many people from a given region's ISP block do you think actually play gemstone?

Which puts me at a huge disadvantage, i'm about 99% sure i'm the only player with my ISP, as of about a month ago. The other player who used it is far far away.

I'm glad that there is probably less than a half dozen people here who knows what characters i play. No issues with GM's using my PC posts against me. Yet.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I'm glad that there is probably less than a half dozen people here who knows what characters i play. No issues with GM's using my PC posts against me. Yet.

I think I may have mentioned the character I played in GS a few times. I just want to make it clear that I was lying, and I do not know that character. Please give me 1000 demerits, Kranar.

:GULP:

[Gan]

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I have a quick comment on this item: If you use anything other than dial-up, odds are you have the same IP address for long periods of time. If you have cable or DSL, it's on most of the time (unless you purposely turn it off) and refreshes its IP lease half-way into the lease duration. So unless the modem is powered off around half-way through the lease duration (and again 3/4 of he way through too? I forget now), you'll keep the IP. Also, if you play from work/school, odds are you're using their IP address (via NAT), which would usually be static. I'm not sure how something like AOL would work, as in if you'd be reported from their proxy servers or from your actual IP. I haven't used AOL in years.

If you use a router, you can ( depending on how advanced your router config utility is) set an option to renew your IP when the lease expires instead of refreshing it.

If IP masking is someone's ultimate worry then you can buy proxy software that will solve the whole delimma for you.

Either way, using IP addresses that are close in range is not the same as confirming identical IP addresses when someone's trying to IP match someone else's logon activity.

If you play from work or school then chances are you're on a static IP. /Agreed.

[Gan]

I think I may have mentioned the character I played in GS a few times. I just want to make it clear that I was lying, and I do not know that character. Please give me 1000 demerits, Kranar.

:GULP:

Just use the search function and lookup your character's name. You can then go back and edit out the name mentioned in the post(s) that have it if they're yours.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Just use the search function and lookup your character's name. You can then go back and edit out the name mentioned in the post(s) that have it if they're yours.

Fuck that, if there were repercussions in game for anything I say on these boards, I'd have to go Wayne Brady on a bitch.

[Celephais]

Wow... quite a few bits of stupidity over the IP address...


If it's your personal network, you can control what IP address you assign yourself to some extent.

I sincerly hope you're not talking about your LAN IP address... because they don't even see that, they seen the WAN IP, which... unless you have a backbone running into your house, you have very little control over.

You log into dialup you get...
67.67.67.10 play as character A... and character B at the same time.
Next time you log in you get
67.67.66.10 and again play as A & B...
guess what... you're caught. Unless you sign off your connection between playing characters and log in under another IP you're quite capable of being linked... if you never play the characters at the same time you have a chance of being okay, but what's the point of that?

They won't be able to stretch it out over the longterm if you swap characters and are using dynamic IP addresses, but if you're MAing it's pretty damn easy to see they're all coming from the same IP address.

[Gan]

They won't be able to stretch it out over the longterm if you swap characters and are using dynamic IP addresses, but if you're MAing it's pretty damn easy to see they're all coming from the same IP address.

Thats what I forgot to clarify in my post. I'm looking at this from a non-MA'ing perspective and more of a historical perspective like how I interpreted Andraste looking back 5 months and trying to match IP's.

MA's being used from the same computer, same connection, at the same time will always have the same IP. /Agreed.

[oldanforgotten]

So now, according to Andraste and that log it is

a) Ok for the GM?s to read, post and use the PC to dig up information on characters, and act upon them.
b) Ok for GM?s to use pastings from PSINET, or monitor it directly, for the purpose of acting upon those OOC statements to make in game decisions.
c) Within policy to use information from OOG means against people in game.
d) Ok to post anonymously on OOG boards and provide information that is otherwise confidential, or account specific.
e) Ok to out former staff anonymously on OOG boards.

You know, there used to be some really good members of staff that wouldn?t stand for this type of god complex that Andraste seems to have. I mean, it?s somewhat understandable within the personality. She?s so fucking fat and ugly that it?s inevitable that when given power, that overall resentment for her own fugliness would manifest in some type of inferiority complex.

Keep posting examples, and keep writing to feedback. Write to Bubba. Or if you know them, or have met them in the past, the Zelinski?s were probably the most reasonable and nice people you?d ever meet, and contrary to what their roles are in the company, they do listen, and they can and have in the past taken action on behalf of a player in a GM abuse case. Send them an e-mail.
________
R1100GS (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/BMW_R1100GS)

[Celephais]

Re-hashed valid point, marred by drivel

Your statement would have a lot more merit if you removed the personal insult. It may be quite true, but if you're looking for a call to action (and knowing who reads these boards) I would hope you could do it in a professional manner.

[CrystalTears]

I was speaking with a friend in IMs, and we agree that this part...

Andraste says, "Aephir... he was a bully."
>
Andraste says, "Sayzor? Definitely..."
>
Andraste says, "I'm a teddy bear in comparison." ... is rather balsy of her to call other GMs, past or present, bullies. Especially Aephir. I mean, WTF. Someone slap this big broad's head with some reality please.

[Celephais]

I was speaking with a friend in IMs, and we agree that this part...

... is rather balsy of her to call other GMs, past or present, bullies. Especially Aephir. I mean, WTF. Someone bang this big broad's head with some reality please.

For the love of god, do not use the words "bang this big broad" in the context of Andraste. AARRRrrgggh. Someone locate me a spoon so that I may gouge my eyes.

[CrystalTears]

:lol: I fixed it, my bad.

[Ilvane]

This whole post doesn't surprise me in the slightest bit.

I suggested in the folder the old post was on, on the officials, that people come discuss it here if they wanted to. I think it warrants the discussion.

Angela

CT I love your Avatar by the way..So cute..hehe

[Sean of the Thread]

Proxy ftw.

[Ilvane]

d) Ok to post anonymously on OOG boards and provide information that is otherwise confidential, or account specific.
e) Ok to out former staff anonymously on OOG boards.

Oh, that Andraste would out someone who was on staff, or formally on staff, on the boards when she so detested it when someone did it to her, I just don't understand.

Angela

[That Jay]

Not a single person noticed the secret message in my pretend argument. :(

[oldanforgotten]

I was speaking with a friend in IMs, and we agree that this part...
... is rather balsy of her to call other GMs, past or present, bullies. Especially Aephir. I mean, WTF. Someone slap this big broad's head with some reality please.

Aephir was actually a pretty decent guy.
Sayzor wasn't half the bully people made him out to be, he was a bit an asshole.

You want bullies?

Ophion was a bully.
Banthis was a bully.
Aeryk (sp) was a bully who was also corrupt with the host-points items nonsense.

I didn't like any of those guys, but none of them went outside the rules. They were simply harsh and always had to have their way.

What Andraste is doing, is going well outside the rules, posting account related confidential information to the public, using OOG means to create in game discipline, and always have her way.

It needs to be fired.
________
Kadett (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Kadett)

[Martaigne]

I was speaking with a friend in IMs, and we agree that this part...
... is rather balsy of her to call other GMs, past or present, bullies. Especially Aephir. I mean, WTF. Someone slap this big broad's head with some reality please.

That friend would be me.

"Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black!" *click*

Aephir did more for this game than babysit.

[Sean of the Thread]

I heard... allegedly... that Khaladon and Andraste churned a little butter together.

[thefarmer]

Your statement would have a lot more merit if you removed the personal insult. It may be quite true, but if you're looking for a call to action (and knowing who reads these boards) I would hope you could do it in a professional manner.

Personal insult? Call to action? Reread whatever post you're refering to again. Better yet, post what you're replying to.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I like how the first time Jamus was pulled, she is referencing a post on the Player's Corner.

Then the next day when she pulled Jamus, she says that Khaladon pointed out the giant thread about her on the PC, as if she was unaware of it.

Nice cover, I totally fell for it...

[CrystalTears]

I heard... allegedly... that Khaladon and Andraste churned a little butter together.
You, my friend, suck balls for putting that image in my head.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/IM-IN-UR/ded.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Not a single person noticed the secret message in my pretend argument.>>

FUCK YOU ANDRASTE.

[Sean of the Thread]

You, my friend, suck balls for putting that image in my head.



The rumor also says they kept their socks on.

[Celephais]

Personal insult? Call to action? Reread whatever post you're refering to again. Better yet, post what you're replying to.

Wow... you are an idiot. How about you go back and read what post I was replying to. I actually intentionally didn't quote him so that he could edit his post, the fact that I was the very next post after his (I included his name and an arrow that links to his post... very hard to track down, I know) ... but your dense skull needs it highlighted...

Personal insult:

She’s so fucking fat and ugly that it’s inevitable that when given power, that overall resentment for her own fugliness would manifest in some type of inferiority complex.

Call to action:

Keep posting examples, and keep writing to feedback. Write to Bubba ... Send them an e-mail.

Don't fuck with me.

[Shifted]

I sincerly hope you're not talking about your LAN IP address... because they don't even see that, they seen the WAN IP, which... unless you have a backbone running into your house, you have very little control over.

I have a medium level of control over my ip address.

BTW, dial-up sucks. It's slower and more expensive than high speed.

[Latrinsorm]

overall resentment for her own fugliness would manifest in some type of inferiority complex.Any Freudians on the board?

[Celephais]

I have a medium level of control over my ip address.

BTW, dial-up sucks. It's slower and more expensive than high speed.

You changed your post... I liked it when you claimed to have a WAN in your house, it was a lot funnier.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I have a medium level of control over my ip address.>>

Make your IP 13.37.13.37

[oldanforgotten]

Any Freudians on the board?

Eh... that's not so much psychology as it is common sense. Don't put a fugly person in a position of authority. Not that they all would do it, but they tend to deal with power in a manner not nearly as well as others. In her case, it's apparently already known how she handles it.

On a side note, god damnit she's fugly.
________
Arizona Marijuana Dispensaries (http://arizona.dispensaries.org/)

[Ilvane]

It really has nothing to do with her looks and everything to do with her actions.

Angela

[LazyBard]

Looks like I chose to finally leave GS at the right time

[Celephais]

It really has nothing to do with her looks and everything to do with her actions.

Angela

Maybe simu should take a look at their demographic, spruce up their image, get a bunch of hot chicks as GMs, I guarantee this will improve CS interactions. Have like a "GM of the day" image on their website... I'm telling you, THIS is what simu has to do if they want to be competitive again.

[Ilvane]

Yeah, you hear how Kitrina is hot..but if she was doing this stuff, would you all still love her?

Angela

[Trouble]

Maybe simu should take a look at their demographic, spruce up their image, get a bunch of hot chicks as GMs, I guarantee this will improve CS interactions. Have like a "GM of the day" image on their website... I'm telling you, THIS is what simu has to do if they want to be competitive again.

LoL, as absurd as it may seem, it might just work. Or even easier yet, they could ninja one of the dating site ads that appear with the girls pretending to be chatting with people and post that as the "GM currently on duty."

[Martaigne]

I'm telling you, THIS is what simu has to do if they want to be competitive again.

Maybe that and cut prime/prem/plat pricing to $10/$20/$30.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Yeah, you hear how Kitrina is hot..but if she was doing this stuff, would you all still love her?>>

It's impossible for hot women to do wrong.

[oldanforgotten]

Yes, her actions are ultimately what determines her worthiness as a member of staff.

I was just pointing out that she's probably the fugliest person I've seen in quite a while, excluding those who are that way because of genetic, or illness related reasons. I know that if I looked like that, I'd be a bitch and hate the world too, especially if gemstone GM was my only job.
________
STARCRAFT II REPLAYS (http://screplays.com/)

[Celephais]

Yeah, you hear how Kitrina is hot..but if she was doing this stuff, would you all still love her?

Angela
I never really thought of Kitrina as that hot... but if Skeeter's avatar chick called me into the consulation lounge she could do whatever she wanted with me.

[Celephais]

It's impossible for hot women to do wrong.

QFT

[oldanforgotten]

Tigermist was a bit older, but she didn't look half bad.
Melissa was decent.
Mitra never dressed it, but she was always a fox.
Naamit (I dont know which GM she was), looked good.
Jemstra/Jasia would have been an excellent hot GM candidate.
Xeldria would probably need a paper bag over her head, but the rest was tolerable.
Also can't forget about Alixi, Fedora, and a couple others who'se names currently slip my mind as other candidates

I might start playing again if I saw something as funny as a GM of the month thing
________
Toyota Sequoia (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Sequoia)

[Gan]

All the GM's need to make a pinup calendar. Like the bikini calendars, firemen calendars, etc.

ROOOFLEZZZZ!

[Some Rogue]

I might start playing again if I saw something as funny as a GM of the month thing

http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=Kitrina

You mean like the Spotlight on Staff section they have?

[oldanforgotten]

Ahhhh, yes, her. Crap, I knew her player name too. Always a nice empath. She's been at a few cons, only started missin em after she had the baby.
________
LINCOLN CONTINENTAL MARK V (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Lincoln_Continental_Mark_V)

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, you hear how Kitrina is hot..but if she was doing this stuff, would you all still love her?

Angela

I would grudge fuck the shit out of her.

(ps - I just saw a pic of her.. and she's not hot... but IF she was hot and pulling Andraste type shit, then the above statement would be true)

[Xaerve]

Breaking News!

Jamus' GM place holder website found!

http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=Jamus


(haha)

[War Angel]

OMG!! I am there too!

http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=Eiress

(haha!)

[Some Rogue]

I would grudge fuck the shit out of her.

(ps - I just saw a pic of her.. and she's not hot... but IF she was hot and pulling Andraste type shit, then the above statement would be true)

Meh, if you were looking at that pic from the link, it's not one of the best.

[Donquix]

Maybe that and cut prime/prem/plat pricing to $10/$20/$30.

and regular should have at least 10 character slots.

[Things2Come]

Who are the Zelinskis?

[Some Rogue]

Who are the Zelinskis?


Think they helped start the company with Whatley. Except, they show up to Simucons and actually associate with the playerbase.

[Shalla]

Chill! Chill! Talking about whether or not Andraste is hot or stating that she has allegedly banged khaladon is not going to fix the problem. ;)

Don't let this issue get to this point and for it to crash and burn and be dead 1 week from now without getting a resolution. Or at least an apology.

or Compensation. ;)


Free uber item for every psinet member and I would surely download psinet 2.

Yay!

[Celephais]

Breaking News!

Jamus' GM place holder website found!

http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=Jamus


(haha)

Holy crosssite scripting vunerability batman!
I know their website is terrible but come'on, this is basic security bullshit...
http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=<script>setTimeout('alert(document.getElementById(\'accoun t_name\').value)',1500);</script>

[Berylla]

It really warms my heart to see that people have finally realized what an abusive bitch of a bully Andraste is.

I've been saying it for years and usually got responses like "Really? I've never had to deal with her, so I don't know."

Well now more and more people are on her shit list and finally seeing how it feels! I had that idiotic moron following me around for years. She loved to get me for foul language, especially when it wasn't even foul.

At one point my friends and I were talking about words that have two meanings. I pointed out that a fagot is a bundle of wood - and immediately got yanked. I didn't say "faggot"....I said "fagot"!! Damn it, I was talking about meaning of words! As usual, Andraste doesn't pay attention to what is going on, just jumps in on a technicality, hurling accusations that make no sense.

What's really interesting is that a year later, the messaging in one of the rooms of Ta'Vaalor shows a guy toting a faggot of wood. Yes folks, there are two spellings for it, both are correct! Gee, how did that slip by the word police?

Recently Andraste pulled me to a lounge and made more false accusations that were based in nothing but her own speculation. I wrote to feedback and demanded that she be told to stop harassing me. That's all it is...harassment, plain and simple. This chick is so far out of line and her head is so huge with her own damn sense of self-importance, that she has no clue what she's doing anymore or how far over the line she has actually gone.

Andraste - I hope you read this and I just hope and pray that you continue to harass me and my characters with your self-righteous crusade against potty talk. It'll just mean you're that much closer to getting your ass fired.

I just wish I was at the Vegascon when she showed up. Has she shown up lately? I'd spend the whole damn con reaming her up one side and down the other. There are very few people that I absolutely can't stand....and she top of my list!

More people should write to feedback. They can ignore one or two complainers but more than that and someone has to sit up and take notice at some point.

[Sean]

Kinda hard to take your post about being harassed in a game seriously when you wish you were there to ruin someones vacation trolling them around and harassing them.

[Ilvane]

Oh, I believe she takes things personal.

Heh, she didn't go the last Vegascon. I wanted to meet her too.

Angela

[Bobmuhthol]

Holy crosssite scripting vunerability batman!
I know their website is terrible but come'on, this is basic security bullshit...
http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=<script>setTimeout('alert(document.getElementById(\'accoun t_name\').value)',1500);</script>

I'm personally pretty fucking pissed @ Simu right now for having this vulnerability. Idiots.

Nice discovery on your part, though.

[Shalla]

Oh, I believe she takes things personal.

Heh, she didn't go the last Vegascon. I wanted to meet her too.

Angela

Oh I certainly hope she doesn't commit suicide and jump off a bridge. And dave thinks that phone suicide booths are a waste of tax payer money. God forbid the PC will be on the news for the cause of it.. THEN what will we do?

[CrystalTears]

Uh.. I think your medicated sick self needs to lie down before you hit your head again.

[Shalla]

I know :(

[Celephais]

I'm personally pretty fucking pissed @ Simu right now for having this vulnerability. Idiots.

Nice discovery on your part, though.

I have half a mind to spend some time this weekend scouring over their site and see what other dumb shit they've got going on. The fact that they have my CC# as well as some other sensitive info on the same site that has such absolutely unacceptable vunerabilities as that I just listed is mind-boggling.

If I was the malicious type instead of posting that I could have spent some time and crafted a URL that sent a logged in individual's cookie to a site of my own, used that to log in as them and rock their account... as a public service announcement... I would stay away from any links that directly point to play.net... (unless of course you get those links from me :medieval: )

[grapedog]

i'd love to know what ISP is actually issuing short lease IP's...and unless you're powercycling your modem long enough to actually have someone else take the IP you were using(hours usually), you're going to get the same one back again.

[Donquix]

i'd love to know what ISP is actually issuing short lease IP's...and unless you're powercycling your modem long enough to actually have someone else take the IP you were using(hours usually), you're going to get the same one back again.

I expect it depends where you live. If you live in buttfuk, kansas....i'm sure odds of getting a new ip are pretty slim.

if you live in a densely populated area, i suspect odds are higher.

[Gan]

i'd love to know what ISP is actually issuing short lease IP's...and unless you're powercycling your modem long enough to actually have someone else take the IP you were using(hours usually), you're going to get the same one back again.

My ISP is on a 5 hour lease timeframe. At home.

Edited to add:

I cant remember if the ISP is 24 hour and my router is set for 5... or if my ISP is set for 5. I'll have to reverify when I get back home and can pull up my router config for confirmation of lease times.

[Donquix]

really? i don't remember the last time i saw under a 1 week lease time for a residential ISP. who is your provider?

[Shifted]

It's crowded enough here that there is a 3 month waiting list just to get internet because of a lack of available lines...

It's the price thing.

$35 for isdn line (or $25 for pstn)
$30 /month average for dial-up subscription
$.60 /hour for dial up internet use


Vs.

$25 for a basic pstn line
$35 /month for 2Gb high speed

not a hard decision...

[Gan]

really? i don't remember the last time i saw under a 1 week lease time for a residential ISP. who is your provider?

Comcast

[Celephais]

It's crowded enough here that there is a 3 month waiting list just to get internet because of a lack of available lines...

It's the price thing.

$35 for isdn line (or $25 for pstn)
$30 /month average for dial-up subscription
$.60 /hour for dial up internet use


Vs.

$25 for a basic pstn line
$35 /month for 2Gb high speed

not a hard decision...

Which one of those installs a WAN in your house?

[CrystalTears]

You guys ruined this thread with IP geek talk. :(

[Shifted]

Which one of those installs a WAN in your house?

Neither of those, but they have plans that do.
And is still cheaper than dial-up.

[Celephais]

Neither of those, but they have plans that do.
And is still cheaper than dial-up.
Okay, you officially now need to stay out of any technology conversation.

[Shifted]

Okay, you officially now need to stay out of any technology conversation.

You win.

Only WAN conversations though.

[Gan]

ROFL

[Celephais]

You win.

YES!!! http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/GuinnessKMF/Flex.jpg

Winning internet arguments makes my penis feel ENORMOUS!

[Drew2]

My ISP is on a 5 hour lease timeframe. At home.

Edited to add:

I cant remember if the ISP is 24 hour and my router is set for 5... or if my ISP is set for 5. I'll have to reverify when I get back home and can pull up my router config for confirmation of lease times.

It's very likely you get the same IP almost every time, however.

[TheEschaton]

I'd like to point out some logical inconsistency that the "I don't see what's wrong here!" folks haven't seen.

IF Andraste was pulling Jamus up based on an IG log of an event in conjunction with the post, they would have known, from the beginning, that Splissken WAS NOT THE ONE WHO GOT KILLED, but the ONE WHO DID THE KILLING. And since the post was discussing how HE was killed, Jamus could obviously not be Splissken. The post on the PC wasn't a post about Jamus outting his own character, but saying who he was killed by.

What seems far more likely is that they only had the post from the PC in his log with a misinterpreted "Jamus = Splissken" comment.

And that is reprehensible.

-TheE-

[Soulpieced]

Winning internet arguments makes my penis feel ENORMOUS!

Probably the funniest quote ever.

[Shifted]

Though i do have to mention....

ADD

That is all.

[Gan]

It's very likely you get the same IP almost every time, however.

The only reason why I know this to be false is because I've been tracking which of my IP addresses become blocked by the PC's ASP. Which caused me initially to start identifying my IP, send it to Kranar so he can unblock, and then post without going through a proxy.

I've been getting different IP's every time I check since then. ;)

[Bobmuhthol]

A certain 17 year old girl I know whose IP I've had access to for years has had the same IP from Comcast for as long as I've known her, so it's not like Comcast hands you guaranteed-to-always-change IP addresses, and thus the "I would never use an ISP that doesn't force my IP to change constantly!!!!" argument no longer applies.

[Tsa`ah]

Smacking someone around on an unofficial forum for crying wolf is one thing, pulling someone in game over something posted on that forum is another.

Let's not even get into "notes" in a "file" about something that was posted outside of the product.

That is the definition of bullshit.

[Alfster]

Oooo, put this in my file!

I found someone fuglier than Khaladon! It's Andraste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you!

[Mistomeer]

I have half a mind to spend some time this weekend scouring over their site and see what other dumb shit they've got going on. The fact that they have my CC# as well as some other sensitive info on the same site that has such absolutely unacceptable vunerabilities as that I just listed is mind-boggling.

Their security sucks and always has. You can brute force the game login and you can get the account user names from the forums. Basically, you have a username and can brute force the password. That has always been my biggest concern. However, the vast majority of web vulnerabilities are either CSS or SQL injection so it's no surprise that some small company with a site is vulnerable. CSS doesn't automatically mean DB access and CC numbers are generally stored in encrypted tables so CSS doesn't automatically mean CC access.



If I was the malicious type instead of posting that I could have spent some time and crafted a URL that sent a logged in individual's cookie to a site of my own, used that to log in as them and rock their account... as a public service announcement... I would stay away from any links that directly point to play.net... (unless of course you get those links from me :medieval: )
You're forgetting the actual game handshake and the key needed. You'd probably get an invalid login message and just end up kicking the logged in player out of the game as well as you, at best. So in theory you could spend alot of time for a DoS attack against one account.



Keep your statement in scope and you'll see that yes, for the purposes of THIS DISCUSSION, its almost impossible for the GM's to use IP matching as a means of confirming same account login by someone who uses a short lease dynamic IP with the current tools at their disposal.

...
I live in a city with around 1 million people and some large businesses. There's a ton of public IP addresses out there. Of all those IP addresses in my city, I'd guess there's maybe 5 people that play GS. So when you're talking about cable modems and your hostname is host.neo.rr.com and there's only 5 people with that suffix playing GS, then it's pretty easy to prove who is who based on IP.

[Latrinsorm]

Eh... that's not so much psychology as it is common sense.I was talking about your tendency to repeatedly bring up how you find overweight people "disgusting" along with your describing someone else's behavior in terms of an inferiority complex.

[thefarmer]

Wow... you are an idiot. How about you go back and read what post I was replying to. I actually intentionally didn't quote him so that he could edit his post, the fact that I was the very next post after his (I included his name and an arrow that links to his post... very hard to track down, I know) ... but your dense skull needs it highlighted...

Don't fuck with me.

Ah. Let's see. I really wasn't fucking with you. For some reason I thought you were replying and quoting ME in your post. I only just now saw you were replying to Oldandforgotten. I blame it on not sleeping for 24hrs. Sorry about that.

[Mistomeer]

The only reason why I know this to be false is because I've been tracking which of my IP addresses become blocked by the PC's ASP. Which caused me initially to start identifying my IP, send it to Kranar so he can unblock, and then post without going through a proxy.

I've been getting different IP's every time I check since then. ;)

While I believe you, that's not actually how a properly configured DHCP server works. From the DHCP RFC, "The allocation mechanism (the collection of DHCP servers) guarantees not to reallocate that address within the requested time and attempts to return the same network address each time the client requests an address."

So you're both right. You're just an exception to the rule, Gan.

[Gan]

While I believe you, that's not actually how a properly configured DHCP server works. From the DHCP RFC, "The allocation mechanism (the collection of DHCP servers) guarantees not to reallocate that address within the requested time and attempts to return the same network address each time the client requests an address."

So you're both right. You're just an exception to the rule, Gan.

Thats about as technogeeky I get. Mainly because I've done some reading up on the why and what since I started getting blocked here on the PC. Curiosity is a great teacher.