Phase & Boxes

[Deathravin]

I have a sorcerer (box getter) and a rogue (box picker) trying to get mastered in Lockpick mastery. This means sometimes I need a couple wedge boxes that are holding up my rogue picking the other boxes and they start stacking up. The easiest way to take care of this is to empty the boxes & store them (still locked) in a locker or something until they're needed again.

My problem is: So far about 75-80% of the boxes I try to phase through don't work. Whut up wit dat? Which ones can and can't be phased through?

[Deathravin]

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it...

Didn't work:
a weathered maoral trunk
a sturdy maoral trunk
a simple wooden strongbox
a badly damaged haon box
a sturdy gold strongbox
an engraved steel coffer
a weathered thanot strongbox
an engraved modwir trunk
a badly damaged silver coffer

Did work:
an iron-bound fel coffer
a badly damaged monir chest
a sturdy gold box


- just the ones so far. I'll probably update it. - why would a gold box work but a gold strongbox NOT work?


Also, whats up with this:

You carefully examine the gold box and determine that the weight is about 24 pounds.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>prep 704
You begin drawing a faint, twisting symbol while softly intoning the words for Phase...
>Channel my box
Your spell is ready.
>You channel at a sturdy gold box.
Suddenly you notice the box's form dim slightly as it becomes less substantial. You quickly stick your hand inside it and fish around for something to grab.
You pull out 4 silver coins!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You feel less drained.
R>weigh my box
You carefully examine the gold box and determine that the weight is about 8 pounds.
Roundtime: 5 sec.


The weight doesn't change until it's empty.

[Asha]

If like you say there's nothing in them when you're trying to phase them, I don't have a clue what your problem is.
Hopefully Necromancer will chime in and let you know what's going on. If not I advice you PM him or go to the officials.

[Fallen]

The higher the lock difficulty, the more difficult a box can be to phase. After a certain point, boxes can longer be phased, irregardless of skill. That is why that spell was so shitty. Not to mention the spell can set off traps. Also, if you disarmed some of those boxes, they may not be able to be phased at all, such as a disarmed glyph trap.

[Deathravin]

All the boxes are disarmed by my rogue first... but that's really very such bullshit. The sorcerer spell circle is full of spells that are ALMOST useful. Lets think about this.

701 - Opens a bleeder, you can suck back health... I dunno about you but if I'm down even 40 health I'm freaking out and finding an Empath.

702 - Used to be our bread-and-butter spell, but even with an open hand from our rune staff it's pretty useless. I can't hunt in offensive anymore now that WOF is so worthless.

703 - Very useful against very few critters. TD pushdown is nice, but I'd be willing to trade it for something else if it ment my critters weren't casting it at me

704 - When was the last time I cared about my weight? I guess fighting something with CMs, but I don't fight things with CMs anyway because I could be nakid and 50 levels over a Stone Sentinel, and I still die every time. Phasing boxes works on 10% of the boxes and it takes usually all of my mana and a good 15-20 minutes just to empty a box.

705 - Decent spell, but hardly a hunting spell. It costs too much for a little more damage than 702.

706 - Good spell to stun things to sacrifice. When else do you use this thing?

707 - Decent for checking out invasions, but what's the point if you can't see the action. A poor man's familar.

708 - Great for helping other people hunt

709 - I quake once in a while, but usually I just e-wave - keeps em down longer.

710 - My new bread-and-butter spell, Dunno about anybody else... It works reliably, and you're almost guarenteed a death for 10 mana. Can't beat that with a stick. TP Expensive to get right.

711 - I don't think I've ever used this spell outside of screwing with it last time it changed.

712 - Basically our replacement for WOF being nerfed. Retributions are alright, but anything that can stun me will probably kill me anyway.

713 - is this Nightmare? Good on thieves or messing with friends. That's about it.

714 - I like scrolls, but too many components, too much BS, and I feel like a failure every time I lock a scroll.

715 - Good to make hollow gems into thief sensors, but that's about it.

716 - Is this Disease? Probably a very good spell but unless I can really get a high endroll pretty useless.

717 - Best way to kill something without leaving a mark. Still tough even on much lower critters and doesn't work on everything... again... ALMOST useful.

718 - Excellent spell. Sort of like a FM but with the constant fear of death.

719 - Used to be much more useful. Now you either need to be much higher of a level than the target, or train in things we have no business in training in to make it work properly.

720 - Very good spell, except you lose rights to search the kill a good portion of the time. Useless for me since I hunt for boxes for my rogue most of the time.

725 - ALMOST useful. Must make your own components... who all has non-standard valances? I don't know, but I surely don't. I'm sure it's useful for something, but for what it does it should be a level 5 spell, not 25.

730 - ALMOST useful. Must make your own components... doesn't last long, spell casters don't work, expensive. What other profession must sacrifice a Gem to make something that helps for 25 minutes max? Especially after taking a day to gather the ingredients.

735 - Might be nifty, but I don't see a need.

740 - More than Almost useful. I really like this spell. I believe there shouldn't be any damage factor on it though. It's too much of a pain in the ass the cast to be hurt when doing it. DOESN'T work Everywhere you can set a ring (Broken Lands for instance - you can set a ring right after the runes, but you can't set a book there). Is 100k really worth it to me when I could just run a script and be there quickly? Getting to Teras without a wait is great, and River's Rest without the risk of boarding is good too. Other than that, I might as well run a script.
Maybe to get to Vaalor or the Rift quickly.

750 - Implement this and sorcerers will love you forever.

[Fallen]

Here is my take on the spells, along with my comments on what you had to say:

701 - I dont bother with it much, but I will use instead of pulling out an herb or returning to town. It is a fucking level 1 spell. Beats Minor Shock any day.

702 - Has hidden damage, but yea, I nearly always use 705 instead. Good for Volners who use runestaves.

703 - Useless where I hunt, as Ithzir have resistance to the spell, but it is a great spell. It really depends on your hunting ground. You may come to love this spell yet.

704 - This spell is fucking awesome. At later levels, encumbrance will get you killed in a big hurry. Carrying 5-6 boxes and remaining at 0 encumbrance is amazing. I think you will come to like this spell. Try to get atleast like 53ish Demonology ranks for phase weight.

705 - Main damage spell. It is what it is, really. You can get full power from this spell with stuff in your hands. Stance, and channelling are the only 2 factors in determining power besides what you're casting at.

706 - Perfect as is, just wish it caused nerve damage on higher endrolls. This is a disabling spell. It is good when you're trying to remove something's ability to attack you without spending the mana to kill it. Situational, but pretty damned good.

707 - Nerfed due to The PEER verb, and partially broken due to it being
limited where you can use it because Call Familiar mechanics. Needs a follow command. More spells need to be able to be cast through it, like 709, 713, and 716. Make sure you use Demons to carry your eye around and find people.

708 - It needs to have an unfocused version that pops off multiple limbs on higher endrolls, but is pretty groovy as is. The animation rate for limbs should also be raised. Again, this spell is useful for disabling at higher levels. It stops Janissaries from disarming you, etc.

709 - Works pretty damn well. Quake, THEN e-wave or major e-wave for stacked RT.

710 - Needs help, and there have been countless discussions on it. Lower level hunting spell only, and it looks like you're that level. Later on you never use it.

711 - One of the best offensive warding spells in the game. Instant hard RT on almost anything along with massive health loss. You will start playing with this one once you have the mana. If you land the spell, you're going to keep the target in hard RT until it is dead. 3 casts with a good warding and you killed something without it ever having a chance to hit you, even if it cannot be stunned. Give it a chance on dangerous creatures. Sounds like a good one for Stone sents.

712 - One of the best defensive spells in the game. It SHOULD react to bolt spells, though, as reactive armor does. Get those 50 ranks of Demonology so the spell doesn't kill you.

713 - Crap, but does stun normally unstunnable creatures. Needs to be a mass unfocused version, perhaps make it castable through Eye spy.

714 - The best utility spell in the game. If you really want help with this spell, send me a PM and we will look over your stats/skills.

715 - Has its uses, and likely isn't going to see any improvement. Stance guarded curse rocks (-25 TD no warding check), and stance neutral itchy curse is great.

716 - The current form should be one of the curses. It is slated for an update. It isn't used at all as DOT spells blow in GS. The diseases dont stack.

717 - Good for invasions and that is about it. Needs work. Used to have a pushdown. You can remote cast it through your eye, but you get a TD hit.

718 - Great situational spell.

719 - Bread and butter for sorcery. Elemental lores add damage. But yeah, it isn't so OMG AMAZING anymore compared to some of the new Empath CS spells and what not.

720 - Best maneuver attack spell in the game.

725 - Gimped, RP uses only, really.

730 - Useful at endgame, but certainly not essential. WAAAAY too many bugs. Dont bother with this until you're ready to hunt Temple Wyneb (skull temple), or even higher level if you skimp on Necro lore.

735 - Doesn't exist yet, so I am not sure what you're getting at.

740 - Awesome utility spell. No complaints here. I can get chalk for 40k as a DE in the Nations. If you get the right race of character with citicenship you can get it for even lower. Add trading and you're talking instant x-realms travel for damn near 30k a pop. Where do you live?

750 - We will see...in 2030

[Deathravin]

As for my stats...

Level 55 Dark Elf Sorcerer

STR: 95 (22)
CON: 56 (-2)
DEX: 85 (27)
AGI: 88 (24)
DIS: 87 ( 8)
AUR: 87 (28)
LOG: 85 (17)
INT: 88 (24)
WIS: 85 (22)
INF: 88 (14)

Physical Fitness...................| 21
Arcane Symbols..............(2x)...| 112
Magic Item Use............(1.5x)...| 84
Spell Aiming................(2x)...| 112
Harness Power...............(1x)...| 56
Elemental Mana Control.............| 44
Spirit Mana Control................| 44
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology.(1x)...| 56
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy.(1x)...| 56
Perception.........................| 28
Climbing...........................| 15
Swimming...........................| 15

(2x)
Minor Elemental....................| 30
Minor Spirit.......................| 30
Sorcerer...........................| 52


I'm going to be working on getting my mana controls up to my level, then probably getting my Perception better. Then probably 3xing spells.

I'm 1xing in both Lores for a few reasons: I want to see which one I like better. If I had listened to myself when I first started, I wouldn't have been able to play with Necromancy like I have. And I'm indecisive, I just know if I threw them all into one, I'd regret it. Besides, I think the benefit craps out at 100 ranks anyway.


705 - seems like a silly spell to me, it doesn't do 2.5x the damage a 702 does, so what's the point? 702 can do a lot more damage per MP than 705 can.

714 - Don't get me wrong, it's a very decent spell. But I'd still rather not carry around scrolls, especially if it's just for spelling up. I'm not going to be in the middle of hunting and busting out my scrolls or anything.

740 - Would be awesome if I didn't get minor damage every 3rd time I use it. Dark elves can't get 40k chalk from Illistim, we get gouged. I get 50k chalk from Landing.

[Asha]

Go ranged, double perception, single a mana control, 15 ranks of CM, stay where you are with PT, double spell aiming, concentrate on MnE sphere and Sorcerer sphere, forget demonology and go wild with Necro. Get yourself a troll king and laugh it up.

:D

[Deathravin]

I've heard of ranged wizards (because of Strength) but I'm not sure if I've ever seen a ranged sorcerer.

[Asha]

Heh. Never work would it.

[Fallen]

740 - Would be awesome if I didn't get minor damage every 3rd time I use it. Dark elves can't get 40k chalk from Illistim, we get gouged. I get 50k chalk from Landing. >>>

Buy it from Cysaegir. You just need backroom access in the Alchemist. Cheap as hell there. Do ALL your shopping in Cysaegir. Ta'illistim rapes DEs

[Deathravin]

Thanks for the tip

[Akari]

for you to think that 710 is one of the best hunting spells in the sorcerer circle tells me that your perception of the sorcerer attack spells... Well, I can only think of two things that it could be.
1. you simply need to play around with the spells alittle more and find different hunting strategies...

but my guess (after seeing your training plan) is that it is...
2. you are trained for utility and not killing ability...

you have an Aur and Wis stat in the 80's, and you under train in sorcerer circle... plus you are only 2x in spells... While I don't see your stat placement being bad for end game...
2x spells + low primary state placement + under trained in sorc circle = lower CS then most at your train.
A lower CS is workable if you have the mana to use 715 (and 413) consistantly, but you are also only 1x in HP (and an AUR stat in the 80's)

I'd say that is where the problem is, and is why you are not getting the best out of your CS spells... its a give and take... you can be a stronger caster, but of course that will take away from your utility ability. Or you can off set by having enough mana to use TD pushdowns and accomplish the same thing. Which will also take away from your utility ability.

I went with both for my sorcerer... alot of mana, and trained for max CS...
The difference is, I ward stuff 10-20 trains over my level consistantly and with a nice enough warding that my spells do really good damage... (and my 717 insta-kills)
So, I have a TOTALLY different perception concerning the CS spells in the sorcerer circle... I could have something dead 2-3 times over before 710 hit it once.

I won't complain about not getting the most out of 704, 714, 725, 730... because I'm trained to get the most out of spells like 702, 703, 705, 706, 708, 709, 711, 715, 718, 719 and 720... and I use all of those spells frequently

see, you have sorcerers that are trained for utility and sorcerers who are trained for killing ability... you are definately not trained for killing ability... To each thier own, but I just enjoy the killing part more then utility... not to say I won't train for more utility after cap...

[Fallen]

see, you have sorcerers that are trained for utility and sorcerers who are trained for killing ability... you are definately not trained for killing ability... To each thier own, but I just enjoy the killing part more then utility... not to say I won't train for more utility after cap... >>

That is the (only) beauty of being capped. You are able to fill in those gaps and holes in your training plan until your character is proficient in damn near everything.

[Deathravin]

How is an attack sorcerer trained?
Maybe there is a certain level of compromise I can obtain.

I could probably train for attacking, then fixskills again when the yearly comes around & go back to my utility training... I guess I don't use scroll infusion as much as I kill things... And it would be nice to be good at something in combat other than <death>.

[Deathravin]

OK... so I just tried to figure some stuff out... we'll see what you think of this plan.


Physical Fitness...................| 21
Arcane Symbols..............(1x)...| 56
Magic Item Use..............(1x)...| 56
Spell Aiming................(1x)...| 56
Harness Power...............(1x)...| 56
Elemental Mana Control......(1x)...| 56
Spirit Mana Control.........(1x)...| 56
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 24
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 0
Perception..................(1x)...| 56
Climbing...........................| 15
Swimming...........................| 15

(2.75x)
Minor Elemental....................| 35
Minor Spirit.......................| 35
Sorcerer...........................| 84


This raises me to 305 CS at level 55, thats +37 CS over my current plan, but I lose almost all of my lore. Would this make me an attack sorcerer?

[Akari]

This raises me to 305 CS at level 55, thats +37 CS over my current plan, but I lose almost all of my lore. Would this make me an attack sorcerer?

I'm really against telling people what to do with THIER sorcerer... but I'd say go hunt a few times and you'll be able to answer your own question... +37 CS is a dramatic leap. but you did drop to 1x aiming to achieve it...

if you like it, I love it...

[Deathravin]

Well I don't hunt for xp, I hunt for boxes for my Rogue. If I happen to gain a few levels in the mean time, then so be it... But when he masters Lockpick mastery, I'll make a mad dash to cap.

I basically just went to a pre FI or FM configuration. The 1xs in SA, AS, MIU, and MCs are only for runestaff... I basically lose my ability to do as much with scroll infusion, demonology, necromancy completely...

and the +37 is based off Tsoran's spreadsheet which is horrendously out of date now. I think I might make some strides in getting it more GS4 compatable. The more and more I use Tsoran's sheet, the more and more out of date I notice it is... I think I'll just make a new spreadsheet with as much current data as I can throw in it... Alas... so many projects and no time to do them.
I'd like to put in a bestiary - Try to figure out each critter's stats & skills to make it more accurate... Then you could pit your character against a critter and see how well you would do against it... Seems like a lot of work tho...


At any rate, I wouldn't mind much if I did train like this; I'd only have 7.5 months or so until I could possibly change back, so no worries. But I don't have enough knowledge about it and I can't test it out (since there is no going back and no tweaking)... So is 305 CS at 55 decent? Is the CS for that configuration (using the stats above) correct with the current system or is Tsoran wrong? What are the TDs at level 60 like? How far will a configuration like this take me? Will I have enough Runstaff credits to be able to use one effectively? Should I just go Edged & Shield?

if I WERE 100 in Aur and Dis, I'd only have +7 bonus on each more than I have now...

[Deathravin]

OK...


Physical Fitness...................| 21
Arcane Symbols..............(1x)...| 56
Magic Item Use..............(1x)...| 56
Spell Aiming................(1x)...| 56
Harness Power...............(1x)...| 56
Elemental Mana Control......(1x)...| 56
Spirit Mana Control.........(1x)...| 56
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 0
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy.(1x)...| 56
Perception..................(1x)...| 56
Climbing...........................| 15
Swimming...........................| 15

(2.6x)
Minor Elemental....................| 36
Minor Spirit.......................| 36
Sorcerer...........................| 75


308 CS - 36 is 2/3rd of my level so I get maximum CS effectiveness... 75 is 20 ranks over my level so I'm still in .75x Territory. I could get 318 CS but I'd have to drop all of my lores... is no necromancy worth 10% more attack effectivness?

[AestheticDeath]

Um, what are you hunting? And what will you be hunting after you finish box hunting?

Go test the TD of what you think you will be hunting right now, and you will answer your question better than we can.


hmm, from my numbers it looks like 312 isthe max CS for your level with those stats. Unless I missed something.
(thats doing 30 elemental, 26 spirit, and 115 sorcerer.)

[Deathravin]

What the equasion tells me my CS should be: 308
165 = (55*3) ... (lvl*3)
55 = (55) ... (Sorc Spells up to level)
15 = (20 * .75) ... (Sorc spells 20 above level * .75)
24 = (36 * .66) ... (Elem spells up to 2/3rd your level * 2/3)
24 = (36 * .66) ... (Spir spells up to 2/3rd your level * 2/3)
25 = (28 + 22)/2 ... (Wis + Aura bonus) / 2


I'm getting 288 base sorc CS, not 308... where is my math wrong?

[Deathravin]

Oops... It's other spells up to 2/3rd your level * 1/3, not 2/3...