Upcoming Uptweak To Animate Dead

[Fallen]

>>Really my biggest problem with the spell is that it is carefully balanced (short duration, high cost, components that are difficult to come by) for its max potential, but the spell is rife with so many little (and not so little) bugs and oversights (The massive creature CS/creature TD differential, for example) that we're not getting anywhere near its full potential. And, the truth of the matter is that we likely never will. So we're paying the right cost, but we're getting the wrong returns. I think that's why we only see any real use as very high levels with very high lore training. It takes that in order to compensate for the problems.

I have something cooking for animates that will help make them just a little more handy. I have PhD preliminary exams this week, but I'll be working on it after that.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

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>>I'm going to hope its reusable corpses.

Hope again. It's not something specific to animates, but an update to the magic system in general, which will likely help animates more than anything else.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[Fallen]

I swear, Oscuro is responsible for more fixes and updates to sorcery than nearly every other GM combined. Clerics/Empaths are lucky to have him.

[Danical]

He is the shit.

[Makkah]

Oscuro seems to be kicking ass, but Nilven >>> all (sorcerer-wise)

[Fallen]

eh, All of the upcoming Sorcerer stuff hasn't been claimed by Nilven. Even our Illusion's update is coming by way of Khaladon, Oscuro has this coming up, and Oscuro will be in charge (I think) of the Critter Sanctuary fix that will eventually happen.

I am doubting if it was Nilven that made these last two fixes, or if he just announced it.

[Deathravin]

It is a generally large pain in the ass to animate something when you think about it. It's not so bad when you can buy the moonflowers or even the crystals, but if you're doing it all from scratch it is a lot of work for not enough return.

I'd like to see refreshable animates, not just re-animatable. Maybe just use a crappy gem and the spell to re-animate or refresh the animate - all the duration of the previous gem is refreshed, the new gem is just to get it back on it's feet again.


Although it is pretty funny to see a sorcerer walk into town with an eye, an illusioned demon, and an undead War Griffin or something. That's pretty cool.

[Numbers]

Changes to the magic system won't fix the underlying flaw of the spell, which is the duration. You should not need to be a post-cap sorcerer that's 2x in necromancy to be able to get a respectable duration out of a level 30 spell.

It's too much of a pain in the ass to gather all the ingredients, lug them around, and keep a good supply of valuable gems, only to have the animate last half a hunt.

[AestheticDeath]

Don't get me wrong or anything, as I don't play with the spell. My sorcerer is only 35ish if I recall correctly.

But do you really need an animate to last all through a hunt?

What are the primary reasons you guys use them for? Do they help you hunt? Do they do ALL the work for you?

I just never saw enough of a value to the animates for me to try to do all the work involved in it.

[Fallen]

They can save your ass in certain situations. Having an Ithzir Scout attacking once every 3-4 seconds with a lance is pretty nice.

[Necromancer]

Well, that's the big gap between players and GMs. AD was designed to be a spell you used during a given hunt. It wasn't designed to be a constant companion spell. Unfortunately, players are used to constant companion spells (particularly when it comes to profession-defining spells like Animate Dead), and so the two sides stare at each other warily.

Nilven is very much against AD being refreshable. And the reason why we have all of the components is to ensure that the spell *isn't* a constant companion spell (otherwise we'd all treat it like the sorcerous equivalent of 425. You toss it up before every hunt)

The problem is that people aren't getting much use out of the spell when it is around. So it's not really worth it for them to pay the component price. Those of us with huge investments in lores get enough of a duration and are animating powerful enough creatures that it's worth it- at least when you toss in a healthy dose of individual preference.

Ultimately, it's a somewhat poor design albeit understandably so. What's the point in making a combat-related spell that has a material requirement but that doesn't blow things away? If it's an 'occasional use' spell, what are the occasions, outside of invasions, where one would suddenly find it worth their time? This is particularly the case when it simply doesn't last very long for the vast majority of sorcerers, and when it often requires you to make a separate trip out to a hunting ground just to acquire the creature that'll last 20 minutes to begin with. Maybe if baseline MAL was 0-+5, and you could just animate a creature in your own hunting area for the duration of the hunt I could see it, but frankly that just isn't the case for most people.

PS My open implosion killed my animate today

[Fallen]

PS My open implosion killed my animate today >>

That blows. Did you lose a good weapon? I FINALLY lost my warlance today. I had that thing for ages. It hurled it into the environs. I came back and searched like less than a minute later after I noticed and it was gone.

[Sean of the Thread]

Necro on the money.

[Deathravin]

LOL... Maybe if we could make our Animates like poke'mon balls (I've never played the game or watched the show so I'm guessing here... but...) You animate a critter, then suck him back into the hollow Gem. You can carry around 4-5 hollow gems full of animates ready to be called forth (by re-casting the spell at it) at any time.

Duration can be refreshed only twice per animate, and is done so by re-casting the spell at your animate with ANY gem in your hand - refreshes with the origonal gem's duration.

That would keep it out for quite a while, and keep them expensive enough to not see them running around town with every sorcerer, but cheap enough and useful enough to use on most hunts.


My problem is that where I hunt there aren't a whole lot of things around that I could Animate. So I have to run somewhere completely out of my way and grab an animate, which might take a while since it's best to kill them without physical damage, and then run (or PS them, which I'm risking getting mildly hurt... which is just very annoying and embarrassing when you're trying to make a really cool exit) back to my hunting area, all the time losing my precious 5000-7500 silver + 1 hour of work worth of Duration. I like the spell in principal, but it sucks in practice. Also, spellcasting critters should be much more effective against square critters, and visa versa. Right now spell casters are basically worthless, which makes me have to go find a square critter - further reducing my choices.


The Pokke'mon ball idea would let me take a day just to gather blood, moonflowers, water, make crystals, grab some good gems, go out and Animate 10-20 good mobs, sucking each one back into it's gem... and I have enough Animates for the rest of the week, using 2-3 per day, refreshing each one twice that's 6-9 good long hunts with my Animate.

[Danical]

Siren that casts Tonis; I want you!

[Necromancer]

My post didn't 'stick' for some reason, so here it is again.

You're missing the point. Nilven doesn't want animates around longer. So it's likely no compromises will be struck until he changes his mind about that fact.

And Song of Tonis when cast by your animate doesn't affect you or your party =(

[Danical]

They still haven't gotten around to that?

Lame.

[Renian]

Necromancer,

Please repost your win first post on the officials if you have not done so already.