Computer question. Is this possible?

[Slider]

can you swap out a hardrive from one system to another? I just recently got a new system and was wondering if I could just plug my old drive into the new one rather than going through all the trouble of reinstalling all the old stuff to the new system. Possible?

[CrystalTears]

Yes. You can either just remove the new drive and put in the old one. Or you can make it as slave drive in order to have access to all your information. Either will work.

[Jessaril]

You can't have two primary partitions so if both drives are, you can't slave one. If you're going to swap the drive in delete all of the hardware from the device manager first. Doesn't mean you aren't going to have HAL issues though. I usually have good luck with it, but my friends always have to format.

One way to fix it is to reinsall Windows over the top of the old installation.

[radamanthys]

nononono... incoming bsod. if the motherboard changes, theres a 75 percent chance that you'll blue screen... you'll definately have to install drivers and possibly programs again.

[CrystalTears]

You'd have to reinstall Windows and programs again anyway just because most of the hardware has changed.

[Bobmuhthol]

Man. :(

[Slider]

Yeah, new motherboard and a big difference in the processors as well. Going from a (Don't laugh, I know it's bloody ancient) AMD Athlon XP 1700 to a pentium 4. Never really needed anything better, until the power supply on the old one fried, and the new one was free.

[Trouble]

Another thing you can do is load the drivers for the new computer onto the old computer, then swap the drive. If it's Win XP or later, it may work since it can load drivers on the fly. If the initial boot blue-screens, then try booting in safe mode and reloading the new drivers.

[Celephais]

What is it you're more worried about? Files or current setup? If you're worried about the files, keeping the drive as a non-boot drive should work (master/slave doesn't matter, master/slave has nothing to do with the OS or partitions).

There are migration wizards (the one included with XP is kinda crap) that can help you keep your current setup, or you can install the drive, boot to the XP CD and then "repair installation", this should fix most of the OS issues and retain a lot of your installed programs.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<You'd have to reinstall Windows and programs again anyway just because most of the hardware has changed.>>

This is so wrong. :(

<<if the motherboard changes, theres a 75 percent chance that you'll blue screen...>>

I don't buy this.

<<You can't have two primary partitions so if both drives are, you can't slave one.>>

You just can't boot from two consecutive partitions; you can definitely have as many primary partitions as you want. This makes absolutely no sense as a whole because you can slave any hard drive, no matter what.


To Slider:

I suggest you try it anyway. Most hardware does not require drivers, however you will definitely need audio and video. You might also run into XP activation problems (if you don't have XP or Vista already then don't even bother doing this, it's futile), but that can be easily fixed in more ways than one.

[Clove]

Or you could...

Get a Mac.

Okay there I said it. Sorry, I couldn't help it.

[Celephais]

Bob's right on all points as well, XP boots fine on any machine without drivers, it's just you won't be able to leverage the hardware till you install drivers for them (so audio won't work and graphics will be crappy), and the fact that you have "wrong" drivers won't hurt you (if it can't find the hardware it won't complain about the driver being there). Worst that'll happen is any hardware specific software might complain.

XP will likely complain as he stated and go into a "reduced functionality" mode... which as he said can be circumvented.

I'm just echoing Bob again but... yeah just try it, if it bitches left and right, just "repair OS" in XP, or install on existing partition (that's a poor performance option, but if you're not too concerned about "tweaking" every inch of performance you won't notice it).

[Clove]

Bob's right on all points as well, XP boots fine on any machine without drivers, it's just you won't be able to leverage the hardware till you install drivers for them (so audio won't work and graphics will be crappy), and the fact that you have "wrong" drivers won't hurt you (if it can't find the hardware it won't complain about the driver being there). Worst that'll happen is any hardware specific software might complain.

XP will likely complain as he stated and go into a "reduced functionality" mode... which as he said can be circumvented.

I'm just echoing Bob again but... yeah just try it, if it bitches left and right, just "repair OS" in XP, or install on existing partition (that's a poor performance option, but if you're not too concerned about "tweaking" every inch of performance you won't notice it).

CT is referring to the fact that your XP license is tied to the mobo MAC address. An HDD from another machine -might- boot, but it won't be a valid license and you will be facing problems down the road if you don't reinstall XP.

If he just wants to shuttle data to the new machine (and use the xtra HDD) no prob. But I've never successfully and continually operated a machine on XP from an install on an HDD from another machine. I have been using the same boot HDD on one my machines for like the past 5 years on at least 3 different mobos. I think it began service as a ME (ew), but ever since it's been XP. Every new mobo has required a reinstall to validate the license key.

I assume he just wants his data anyway, unless the HDD somehow has sentimental value. I can't imagine it being bigger or faster than whatever is in the new computer.

[Drew2]

It won't work.

That is not a guess.

Edit: You CAN re-install windows ontop of the current installation to fix the blue screen/boot loop that WILL occur. That will save some time. But your best bet is to just suck it up and start fresh, using your old hard drive to pull off all your data.

[Celephais]

CT is referring to the fact that your XP license is tied to the mobo MAC address. An HDD from another machine -might- boot, but it won't be a valid license and you will be facing problems down the road if you don't reinstall XP.

You completly miss the "XP will likely complain as he stated and go into a "reduced functionality" mode... which as he said can be circumvented.", this was refering to the hardware change not matching the original XP validation.


I assume he just wants his data anyway, unless the HDD somehow has sentimental value. I can't imagine it being bigger or faster than whatever is in the new computer.

I had assumed this originally first, then I re-read his post and his only complaint seems to be the "hassle of install". A repair of the install is probably still a bit of a hassle (and not a sure shot).

There are progams that let you "de-activate" XP, he runs that on the current machine, moves the HD to the new one, and then actives again and he should be okay. I haven't actually done it, but it's not very difficult for him to give it a shot.

[Clove]

I suppose it doesn't hurt to try but having built about a dozen machines in the past 10 years- A clean reinstall has always been worth the effort for me.

[Jessaril]

Dropping a harddrive into another machine means the HAL is completely different. Most of the time It flat out will not boot.

[Celephais]

Dropping a harddrive into another machine means the HAL is completely different. Most of the time It flat out will not boot.

Uh.. the HAL is hardly that different, the OS should have no problem differentiating the change in hardware... That's like saying you have to reinstall your OS because you installed a new video card. Most HALs will be able to figure out changes in hardware as long as the software that was installed would have worked on that hardware in the first place.

Edit: and yeah Clove I agree, clean slate is the best bet... but it appears he was aware of that option and wanted to avoid it.

[Jessaril]

Uh.. the HAL is hardly that different, the OS should have no problem differentiating the change in hardware... That's like saying you have to reinstall your OS because you installed a new video card. Most HALs will be able to figure out changes in hardware as long as the software that was installed would have worked on that hardware in the first place.

Edit: and yeah Clove I agree, clean slate is the best bet... but it appears he was aware of that option and wanted to avoid it.

Tell me then... why does a machine sometimes freeze at boot even if you delete all the drivers, or can the same thing can result in you getting a HAL.dll error?

And why deleting boot.ini, running bootcfg /rebuild, then running fixboot will fix the issue?

The HAL is a standarized instruction set but it's not the same for every machine, if it was why would it be built during installation before it even knows what hardware is connected to the motherboard?

You can attribute freezing and bluescreens when you switch a drive to another machine to drivers if you want, but drivers for the most part don't matter to the machine, its the abstract layer thats fucked up.

[Celephais]

Tell me then... why does a machine sometimes freeze at boot even if you delete all the drivers, or can the same thing can result in you getting a HAL.dll error?

I'm not saying the HAL can't fuck stuff up, I'm just saying the HAL itself hasn't changed... and obviously if you delete all the drivers you can fuck yourself (I can't seem to put together what you meant by or can the same thing can result... not trying to be a grammar douche). The HAL hasn't changed, the actual hardware has, and any boot specific HALs would get wiped by:


And why deleting boot.ini, running bootcfg /rebuild, then running fixboot will fix the issue?

This is why I kept suggesting he just boot from CD and do a "repair", the majority of his system should be the same that way, any hardware specifics should get rebuilt. HALs like ForceWare or Catalyst(?) will certainly have to be reinstalled, but most of those will default back to basic functionality.


You can attribute freezing and bluescreens when you switch a drive to another machine to drivers if you want, but drivers for the most part don't matter to the machine, its the abstract layer thats fucked up.

... Drivers are abstraction layers... what do you think drivers are? They standardize access to hardware.

[Drew2]

Jessaril is correct. The rest of you should really stop arguing.

Edit: Not necessarily the technical explanation, but the end result is what I'm referring to.

[Jessaril]

... Drivers are abstraction layers... what do you think drivers are? They standardize access to hardware.

Yes, there is an abstraction layer to the drivers, but there is also a IO control set that is specific to a vendor or model. Install ATI drivers on your Nvidia card and let me know how that works for you. It's exactly the same with the HAL, it builds it's IO control set, and if you change the hardward on the other side of the abstraction layer without modifiying it to recognize the changed hardware it won't work.

[Trouble]

I don't know if it's still like this, but there used to only be 2 HAL types, the ACPI and the umm... other type, so you had decent chance of being able to boot up if you swapped drives. Again, installing the drivers from the new machine onto the old machine first (when possible) helps greatly in the process. In my old job we would take an image of one type of machine and use it for all types of machines, once we loaded the drivers. Once in a while it would fail (and then we'd safe mode it to load drivers), but it worked most of the time.

[Gan]

This is what I see when I try to read this thread. :(


asdksadfpogij3wt098q3u[p23or5j2-0asadijje09u34otlk,.naklsjvhzx9c8v98uw4-0t9=-0213k45jadf-09gu09ruto45jt2qoiuya-09srug0iqer-983]5[2o6'54;l=098a098re7q32o4i5j1iu-a890gf[plk;lu78lweriyw86yq87423ihut67rdq76sr9723434oiuy34-90itj5;lkjre09gu4523ut8q7we6toi4u65j431lyq98ey0q38 945uo32i6j8l...

[Celephais]

Yes, there is an abstraction layer to the drivers, but there is also a IO control set that is specific to a vendor or model. Install ATI drivers on your Nvidia card and let me know how that works for you. It's exactly the same with the HAL, it builds it's IO control set, and if you change the hardward on the other side of the abstraction layer without modifiying it to recognize the changed hardware it won't work.

You didn't address what I said at all, I'm not saying drivers for some hardware are going to work for another, I'm saying that drivers ARE HAL. (Infact if you install ATI drivers on your nVidia machine guess what happens... boots up just as it did before you installed any drivers at all)

If you swap out your nVidia card for an ATI one your machine doesn't instantly shit the bed, it interprets the hardware as a basic display device (because it doesn't have the proper HAL/driver to recognize it), and the advanced features of the hardware are disabled. That might not be the case with the MB but that's why I keep saying a repair might be enough (I could easily be wrong).

There isn't an "abstraction layer to the drivers" ... the drivers are the abstraction layer.

Anyway it's all worth a try if he really doesn't want a fresh install, because worst that happens is he pops it in, gets a BSoD, and installs as he would have normally, or attempts a repair and lets it run through that and possibly gets lucky, and if not installs normally anyway (hardly out much time doing that).

Edit: And Gan I agree this thread has gotten boring, it's got a lot of arguing, but not enough vicious arguing :(

[Clove]

Boring?! I beg to differ. I know HAL stands for hardware abstraction layer- but when Jessaril insists it will BSOD because of HAL (and it won't necessarily, just like swapping out video cards doesn't) all I can hear is "Dave, what are you doing Dave?".

[Jessaril]

Boring?! I beg to differ. I know HAL stands for hardware abstraction layer- but when Jessaril insists it will BSOD because of HAL (and it won't necessarily, just like swapping out video cards doesn't) all I can hear is "Dave, what are you doing Dave?".

I didn't insist it would, I said when it does it's normally the cause when it won't boot. The other important difference you're all neglecting is video cards are required to have generic API controls built in. Ever notice your video card works when you install it without the vendor specific driver but you only have limited display options? Then when you install the vendor specific drivers you get more options -- ever notice that? Yeah, well processors, PCIbus, memory controllers, and other low level hardware aren't required to have that, since they're not plug and play. That's where you have issues with swapping one HDD into another machine.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'll wait until we get a response from Slider before I begin to definitively say whether it will work or not, unlike the people vehemently screaming that it's impossible. It isn't. Someone can very easily take a hard drive image and restore it on a totally different (blank) hard drive in a totally different machine than that from which the image was made and be able to boot from it. Offering reasons why such things won't work is of no use when you don't yet know that it doesn't, and if I really, truly cared about the issue I'd do it myself to demonstrate.

[Sean of the Thread]

This depends on so many factors.. you guys are all over teh place.

[Kranar]

Technically Bob and Celephais are correct on this issue, furthermore doing so is supported by Windows XP unless it's an OEM copy.

Assuming it's not an OEM copy, all you need to do is be careful about it. When you install your old hard drive into the new computer... boot from your Windows CD, and then select to do a REPAIR INSTALL. Don't boot from your hard drive until you do this.

This will remove all the old drivers from your installation, install all the new drivers for your new computer, and everything will be fine.


If it is an OEM copy, then it will be tied down to your computer's hardware. Technically you CAN still move the hard drive over but becomes somewhat of a pain, and you're also on your own. It's probably not the best way to go.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<When you install your old hard drive into the new computer... boot from your Windows CD, and then select to do a REPAIR INSTALL. Don't boot from your hard drive until you do this.

If it is an OEM copy, then it will be tied down to your computer's hardware.>>

Even if he does have an OEM CD, which is likely, couldn't he just use any old retail disk from anyone he knows to install the appropriate drivers?

[Sean of the Thread]

I just did two of these this week with one being xp and one being 2000. What Kranar said is correct... boot from CD and repair. Next fully update all service packs etc then your video/audio peripherals.

If your drive was partitioned with C being only system your games/data etc will still be intact on the other partition/s.

[Sean of the Thread]

<<When you install your old hard drive into the new computer... boot from your Windows CD, and then select to do a REPAIR INSTALL. Don't boot from your hard drive until you do this.

If it is an OEM copy, then it will be tied down to your computer's hardware.>>

Even if he does have an OEM CD, which is likely, couldn't he just use any old retail disk from anyone he knows to install the appropriate drivers?

Yes if he/she has the COA number.. usually stuck to the back of the computer.


*I've used teh OEM to do the repair once and there was no problem.. if it does flag hardware change authenticity shit all you gotta do is call them and they'll issue a new one.

[Celephais]

Technically Bob and Celephais are correct on this issue

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta
http://photos14.flickr.com/15635615_44f2c36e7e.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

<<if it does flag hardware change authenticity shit all you gotta do is call them and they'll issue a new one.>>

I just crack my XP installations when I put them in. I'm evil.

[Sean of the Thread]

That would make a nice geek poster imo. I'd sport that in my office.

[Alfster]

This has to be the geekiest of geek threads on this forum...

Sadly, I understood more of it than I wish I did.

[Gan]

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta


http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/3strangedays/gangsta.jpg

[Clove]

I didn't insist it would, I said when it does it's normally the cause when it won't boot. The other important difference you're all neglecting is video cards are required to have generic API controls built in. Ever notice your video card works when you install it without the vendor specific driver but you only have limited display options? Then when you install the vendor specific drivers you get more options -- ever notice that? Yeah, well processors, PCIbus, memory controllers, and other low level hardware aren't required to have that, since they're not plug and play. That's where you have issues with swapping one HDD into another machine.

In the case of a PCI bus the non-existent generic API you're referring to is called a Common Bus Driver. That being said, I agree that if you get a BSOD when you try to boot from an HDD from another device it's probably a HAL issue. In my experience that rarely happens. But I still hear "Dave? Dave?"

[Slider]

Damn...didn't mean to start such a big argument. :wasntme:

Anyway, turns out I'm not going to be able to do anything with the new system after all, no PCI port on it. From what I was told, it was used as an office network hub and has allmost nothing in it that could reasonably (I mean inexpensively) be turned into a good gaming platform.

Oh well. Thanks for the help at least.

[Sean of the Thread]

Rofl