A huge set of stones.

[Chelle]

You have to admit. No matter what you think of the President, it took some bravery to go into the Lion's Den like he did today and serve the troops Thanksgiving Dinner. That's just totally cool.

[Xcalibur]

Desperation sometimes turn a coward into a courageous buddy

[Sean]

just felt like saying this before it turns into a US vs thread ..

as much as i dislike bush i think it was a good thing to do for him to remind our troops that we are still thinking about them.

[Betheny]

I agree. Wholeheartedly.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, Bush is a good guy.. Whether you like him or not politically, I believe he is a good person who truely cares about the troops and us citizens.

[SpunGirl]

Yes. And just to stir the pot (as is my job), I would like to say to Xcalibur that next time France or Canada is invaded, I hope we tell them to go fuck themselves instead of going to help.

-K

here here spun

[Ilvane]

The best way to take care of our troops is to have not sent them into combat in the first place.

That being said, I'm glad he went to see the troops..even if he is using the war for politial gain.

-A

[DaMaGe]

War is necessary. Sometimes.


-Adam

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
The best way to take care of our troops is to have not sent them into combat in the first place.

That being said, I'm glad he went to see the troops..even if he is using the war for politial gain.

-A

LOL.. many people would disagree with you there actually. Most believe the war to be a political liability... which I believe he knew going in.

He could completely be snowing the absolute shit out of me.. but I find him to be a very trustworthy politician.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Yes. And just to stir the pot (as is my job), I would like to say to Xcalibur that next time France or Canada is invaded, I hope we tell them to go fuck themselves instead of going to help.

-K

Just something to think about.

Some think Canda has oil reserves second only to Saudi Arabia.

Who do you think will invade Canda?

[theotherjohn]

sometimes a simple thank you and you are doing a great job such as Bush is doing now is very important.

[Ilvane]

He made lots of comments about not using the war for the presidental campaign, and the very first campaign ad they came out with was the State of the Union address on the war.

Sly like a fox, he's a politician.;)

Eh, anyway..aren't they all the same?

-A

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Yes. And just to stir the pot (as is my job), I would like to say to Xcalibur that next time France or Canada is invaded, I hope we tell them to go fuck themselves instead of going to help.

-K


I don't recall any war on canada's mainland since i'm living, since my mother first set foot in canada, since my grand-father was waging war, since, you get the idea.

And hoping the US won't help "us" won't change the fact they'll come help us, they need us as we need them:P

Sorry.

Canada and the united states are 2 friends (and friends argue sometimes)

[Edited on 28-11-03 by Xcalibur]

[theotherjohn]

Most of the time Bush drives me insane. Every now and then he will say or do something that makes me forget all the bad.

One of those things is the bush quote I included below.


Five reporters, five photographers and a camera crew and producer, sworn to secrecy, accompanied the president on the trip. Bush surreptitiously left his ranch in an unmarked car with tinted windows, riding with Rice and secret service agents.

Other Secret Service agents left at the ranch were not told the president had departed. Rice and the president wore ball caps; Bush said he pulled his low on his face and slouched down in his seat to avoid being recognized by an airfield guard.

"We looked like a normal couple," Bush said of himself and Rice.

[Zir]

Originally posted by Ilvane
The best way to take care of our troops is to have not sent them into combat in the first place.


That is what they pay us for.

[Rastaman]

If he truly cared about our soldiers they'd be at home with their families.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Rastaman
If he truly cared about our soldiers they'd be at home with their families.

"Ok, you evil-doers... We're going home for Thanksgiving. Don't do anything bad or when we get back, we're going to get mad."

[Trinitis]

Sounds about as helpful as telling Falgrin to stop stealing in the park while you sort through your gems.. :P

-Adredrin

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Rastaman
If he truly cared about our soldiers they'd be at home with their families.

That's like me saying, 'Your name is Rastaman and you listen to nothing but rap, you must be black.' When in reality you're a skinny white kid who lives in the suburbs.

[Rastaman]

Yeah I guess you're right, it's perfectly logical for US soldiers to still be in Iraq. Once they beat the bad guys the world will be a significantly better place to live.

[Hulkein]

Correct. Glad you're seeing the big picture now.

[Chadj]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Yes. And just to stir the pot (as is my job), I would like to say to Xcalibur that next time France or Canada is invaded, I hope we tell them to go fuck themselves instead of going to help.

-K

We have participated in just about every other war the US has entered.. hell, we even contributed just as much as the US in some wars. Canada felt that the war was unwarrented, and the basis was off (and, it was proved, one of the major reasons the war happend, was not true... WMD) anyways, we felt it was not proper. Helping an ally in an offensive, and helping an ally in a defensive situation are very different. Besides... Everyone likes canada. Oil reserves or not, who would want to attack us?

Oh, and personally, i think Bush is pretty stupid politically (although he is getting MUCH better).. but i think he is a really good guy, and means well. Good job with the troops, bush! :thumbsup:

[Artha]

and, it was proved, one of the major reasons the war happend, was not true... WMD

Uh...no it wasn't. Iraq's a huge place (size of California), most of which is uninhabitable desert. Take the fact that Syria, Iraq's buddy, would also like seeing the US be hurt by WMDs, then there wasn't a damn thing proven.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Rastaman
Yeah I guess you're right, it's perfectly logical for US soldiers to still be in Iraq. Once they beat the bad guys the world will be a significantly better place to live.

once you kill all the bad guys. only good guys left

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Chadj

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Yes. And just to stir the pot (as is my job), I would like to say to Xcalibur that next time France or Canada is invaded, I hope we tell them to go fuck themselves instead of going to help.

-K

We have participated in just about every other war the US has entered.. hell, we even contributed just as much as the US in some wars. Canada felt that the war was unwarrented, and the basis was off (and, it was proved, one of the major reasons the war happend, was not true... WMD) anyways, we felt it was not proper. Helping an ally in an offensive, and helping an ally in a defensive situation are very different. Besides... Everyone likes canada. Oil reserves or not, who would want to attack us?

Oh, and personally, i think Bush is pretty stupid politically (although he is getting MUCH better).. but i think he is a really good guy, and means well. Good job with the troops, bush! :thumbsup:

You might want to call CNN or Fox News with this proof that there were no WMD. You also might want to tell the old Iraqi government that they foolishly spent tons of money on chemical suits and biological antidotes.

[Chadj]

Originally posted by Artha

and, it was proved, one of the major reasons the war happend, was not true... WMD

Uh...no it wasn't. Iraq's a huge place (size of California), most of which is uninhabitable desert. Take the fact that Syria, Iraq's buddy, would also like seeing the US be hurt by WMDs, then there wasn't a damn thing proven.

Well, they claimed they would find them almost immediately, and they havnt yet. I still go by "Innocent until proven guilty", even with terrorist.. meh. Im too nice.

[Artha]

they claimed they would find them almost immediately

...I don't remember those claims. I remember them saying they had evidence, and that they would be found. I do not, however, recall the word 'immediately' being used.

[Chadj]

I do recall that they stated they would find the weapons all over the place and quickly. I recall that pretty well.. but then again, im still not thinkin strait right now... And im well aware the weapons WERE used. :)

[Rastaman]

It's all lies anyways.

[Chelle]

Uh you know how they KNOW there are WMD there? Cus dada Bush sold them some when he was Pres. Plus they are finding labs all over the place that have the ingredients to produce them. Where they are keeping them hidden is the problem, which is in Saudi, most likely.

[Xcalibur]

Psychopath such as Sadam would not give their ultimate way of control to other psychopaths.

There ARE WMDs or there aren't

[Back]

My take on it is... with as much advance warning as was given for the invasion, Saddam had them destroyed to make the US look bad in the international community.

Bush seeing the troops on Thanksgiving was a good thing. If he hadn't, would anyone have criticized him for it? I don't think so. It was a good move on his part.

[Skirmisher]

Yah, I'll chime in on the chorus of those who are not big fans of President Bush but think this was a good gesture on his part.

Granted, he was far from in the same level of danger as the average soldier is while stationed there, but at the same time we all saw the photos of the DHL plane getting attacked witht he SAM just last week so to try to say there was NO added danger is incorrect also. As someone else said no one was expecting him to go so there would not have been any outcry if he had not.

Is he and will he use it for political gain? Well I sure as hell hope so or he and his handlers should all be shot. Thats just politics folks, so to get outraged that they use such a visit for political gain is a bit naive is all.

And please allow me to reiterate I am not a Bush cheerleader in any way and will vote against him come election time but fair is fair.

It was a nice move.

[Betheny]

At least the Iraqis can protest our presence, now. They weren't allowed to protest Saddam.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
There ARE WMDs or there aren't

Next you're going to be telling me Saddam is dead or he isn't.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Rastaman
If he truly cared about our soldiers they'd be at home with their families.


When people join the Military, they fully know they could be sent anywhere, anytime, for any length of stay. It is not as this was a draft. Shesh.

[Back]

Originally posted by Maimara
At least the Iraqis can protest our presence, now. They weren't allowed to protest Saddam.

That may be true, but how many more were killed in the process?

Its not Saddam I sympathize with, its the real Iraquis who live lives like you and me.

id say 10 nukes and we deal with them all...start with mecca baghdad ect.

[Back]

Originally posted by The Edine
id say 10 nukes and we deal with them all...start with mecca baghdad ect.

Following that logic, The Edine might bomb everyone else who is not The Edine, so The Edine could rule.

What a lonely place.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Maimara
At least the Iraqis can protest our presence, now. They weren't allowed to protest Saddam.

That may be true, but how many more were killed in the process


You're kidding me right? Do you have any idea how many of his own people SADDAM killed?

Do you know how many American's died in the revolutionary war?

[Back]

Originally posted by Caiylania

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Maimara
At least the Iraqis can protest our presence, now. They weren't allowed to protest Saddam.

That may be true, but how many more were killed in the process


You're kidding me right? Do you have any idea how many of his own people SADDAM killed?

Do you know how many American's died in the revolutionary war?

I'm not sure how to answer this because A) this is not an American revolutionary war, and B) I'm on your side, Caiylania.

The Edine keeps himself amused

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Caiylania

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Maimara
At least the Iraqis can protest our presence, now. They weren't allowed to protest Saddam.

That may be true, but how many more were killed in the process


You're kidding me right? Do you have any idea how many of his own people SADDAM killed?

Do you know how many American's died in the revolutionary war?

I'm not sure how to answer this because A) this is not an American revolutionary war, and B) I'm on your side, Caiylania.


It sounded like you were saying to many died for the right to protest. I was just trying to point out, that in our war to have rights that the King of England didn't want us to have, tens of thousands of people died fighting for that chance.

America's soldiers were willing to fight and die to help Iraqis get the rights to protest whatever they want and fight back.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Chelle
Uh you know how they KNOW there are WMD there? Cus dada Bush sold them some when he was Pres. Plus they are finding labs all over the place that have the ingredients to produce them. Where they are keeping them hidden is the problem, which is in Saudi, most likely.

I doubt Bush Sr or even Reagan were ignorant enough to sell WMDs to Iraq. They sold plenty of destructive hardware to them for sure, but I highly doubt we put massively destructive materials in their hands.

I sincerely doubt there is anything other than the nerve gases they used on the Iranians and Kurds.

Our media tends to omit details of supposed finds. Such as "derelict", "long abandoned", "inoperable" ... you get the point.

If we invaded Iraq because of the potential threat, well we had best start raiding the kitchens of the common US home and arrest farmers by the hundreds. The chemicals housed on my family's farm could make the Oklahoma City bombing look like a firecracker.



Originally posted by Caiylania

America's soldiers were willing to fight and die to help Iraqis get the rights to protest whatever they want and fight back.

I would have to disagree with that.

America's soldiers were ordered to enable a regime change.

If I were to use my two brothers as a measuring stick for the common soldier, America's soldiers WERE NOT willing, and most likely are still not willing, to die for a country that does not want them there.

We did not go into Iraq to free the oppressed people. That's political propaganda. The current “regime” has changed its stance on the reasons for invasion a few times already and have all but admitted that the threat of WMDs is what they settled on for support from the gullible public.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we're not defending our country in Iraq, and I'll even add that we're not defending the Iraqi people in Iraq. We're setting up a US friendly/loyal government.

[Edited on 11-30-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[DarknessWithin]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Yes. And just to stir the pot (as is my job), I would like to say to Xcalibur that next time France or Canada is invaded, I hope we tell them to go fuck themselves instead of going to help.

-K

C'mon...it's Canada!! Who in their right mind would want to attack canada??? That's like attacking the special kid :lol:

Bush is a dweeb. He isn't some sly politician or charming guy. He can't speak on his own!! ::points to the lil cue cards:: But I do think it was good of him to visit the troops, I just seriously doubt it when they say it wasnt a publicity stunt. But Hey...i have the Terminator as a govenor and it's 3 in the morning so i'm ending mu rambling right......now.

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Chelle
Uh you know how they KNOW there are WMD there? Cus dada Bush sold them some when he was Pres. Plus they are finding labs all over the place that have the ingredients to produce them. Where they are keeping them hidden is the problem, which is in Saudi, most likely.

I doubt Bush Sr or even Reagan were ignorant enough to sell WMDs to Iraq. They sold plenty of destructive hardware to them for sure, but I highly doubt we put massively destructive materials in their hands.

I sincerely doubt there is anything other than the nerve gases they used on the Iranians and Kurds.

[Edited on 11-30-2003 by Tsa`ah]

Iraq started developing a biological weapons program, with which the US president is fighting so actively, with America's direct support about twenty years ago. This is proven by official documents of the US Government, which have been recently taken up once again against the background of more discussions about Baghdad-s weapons of mass destruction, Associated Press informs. The official records made in the 1980s reveal that the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) sent specimens of biological material to several Iraqi institutions, which the UNO later called parts of Hussein-s program to develop biological weapons.

Official reports made at the beginning of the 1990s say that Iraq received bacteriological material from the USA under the pretext of further use in medical researches. CDC and US depositories where biological cultures were stored produced bacteria, which were further used for the development of bacteriological weapon in Iraq. These were anthrax cultures and bacteria producing botulism toxins gangrene-causing gas. Iraq also received specimens of other pathogenic microbes, for instance, bacteria that causes the West Nile Fever.


WMD's are WMD's no matter what form they are in. It doesn't have to come in the form of an atomic bomb, you know.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17]

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1]

Oh hold up a sec. can someone tell me what the definition of Weapons of Mass Destruction means?

Chemical weapons, biological weapons, hardware... in the end they all will take out a mass shit load of people once used, no?

Okay so it is documented we gave them these things so that is why we know they are there.

[Tsa`ah]

Umm...

You are aware that under the Reagan administration, the US sought diplomatic relations with Iraq while they were using nerve toxins on the Iranian army aren't you? And they knew it. Rumsfeld even shook hands with Saddam for a photo-op.

We also sold them land mines, choppers, missiles, you name it. And we did it with a smile.

We know they have/had the potential, we do not know if they are in possession, or ever were, of the final product. As I said, your friendly neighborhood farmer has just as much potential in his shed.

I'm sure just about every Arab nation has the same potential, yet we only went after the one that wouldn't saddle up, or act like they were saddling up. Never mind the oil fields.

We're not storming the borders of North Korea at the moment are we?

We haven't done much more than make an appearance on the African stage. Just Iraq, because we sold them most of the crap and they have oil. Talk about baiting the line. Reagan turned out to be a fucking genius.

This old hat anyway. Read this...

http://forum.gsplayers.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000503.html

[Edited on 11-30-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Betheny]

Originally posted by The Edine
The Edine keeps himself amused

Until he gets carpal tunnel in both arms, even though he switches off.