Archery Help

[Zanifer]

Hello,

I decided to give archery a try again since so much has changed since last time I tried in GS3. Below are my Maneuvers, Stats, and Skills. This character is in the accelerated state and every portion, including stats I believe, can be modified.

I only have Cheapshots for nosetweak, it makes Daggerbeaks have 4 DS instead of 27 and they aren't sweepable. His Stamina isn't high enough for surge, so until it is viable I figured this was a useful skill. I have looked all over the web to find accurate facts on archery and I keep coming across different things.

As for my training here are the reasons for it, Armor Use: I will get him to chain then stop doubling. Combat Maneuvers: I will get enough points for maxed mobility and surge, at that point I may either stop or start singling for shadow mastery, I have another rogue (25ish) and am not too impressed with it yet. Dodge: I plan to double for life for DS. Ranged: Obvious, primary AS. Ambush: I read that it helps sniping, so 2x for life. Perception: Same as Ambush, I also read it can give AS? So I figured to triple it. Hiding: I am tripling so I can snipe my way from 20ish to upper levels, I read after a bit sniping loses its potency and most archers change to open aimers?

I have his stats placed for all around functioning, some growth potential, however, not so much so to make him completely sucky starting out.

Anyways, any suggestions, or even better, factual formulas or advice on archery would be more than welcome. I primarily use a crossbow, I do have a 4x acid spewing wand bow though. He is an apprentice fletcher and should be mastered in a week or so, going CoL for more AS (He will have 8 SP soon enough to not worry about swords, stupid Dark Elf spirit recovery).

>cman info
Sedenir, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Cheapshots cheapshots 2
Combat Mobility mobility 1

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

>info
Name: Sedenir Race: Dark Elf Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 36532 Level: 5
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 66 (8) ... 66 (8)
Constitution (CON): 74 (7) ... 74 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 68 (19) ... 68 (19)
Agility (AGI): 57 (8) ... 57 (8)
Discipline (DIS): 73 (1) ... 73 (1)
Aura (AUR): 74 (22) ... 74 (22)
Logic (LOG): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Intuition (INT): 52 (6) ... 52 (6)
Wisdom (WIS): 68 (14) ... 68 (14)
Influence (INF): 73 (6) ... 73 (6)
Mana: 8 Silver: 0

>skill
Sedenir (at level 5), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 58 12
Combat Maneuvers...................| 58 12
Ranged Weapons.....................| 58 12
Ambush.............................| 58 12
Physical Fitness...................| 58 12
Dodging............................| 58 12
Stalking and Hiding................| 82 18
Perception.........................| 82 18

Anyways, thanks in advance. Take care all.

[Gan]

As quoted in an earlier thread.



Formula: (Natural Str BONUS + (Surge + Str Bonus Enhancives <Note: Max Enhancives through items or Surge is +50>) + Wizards Strength + Phoens) / 10 = RT reduction to firing time (Min RT is 3 seconds).
Affectors:
Aiming adds +1 RT, hiding adds +1 RT (This is removed if fallen from hidng as it's considered an Open shot).
With every +10 Str bonus equalling -1 RT.
Bows and their respective base RT's (as noted on official GS website):
Composite: base RT +6
Longbow: base RT +7
Shortbow: base RT +5If armor changes indeed do come out for hiding effects, you'll want to find a nice set of heavily crit padded brig and stop there, instead of going to chain.

Your basic skill set is on track, you'll want to add the accessory skills as you get extra points (climbing, swimming, MIU, etc.)

One note on skills: add harness power to about 10 ranks for added mana capability so your COL signs can be renewed continuously.

Get into the rogue guild and master gambits as quick as you can. Then work on stun manuevers.

Instead of going crossbow, which will get you owned if you're ever discovered from hiding in offensive while on your knees (having the cm-combat mobility will help here), I'd use your wand bow (or find a good short/composite bow) and work on sniping from hiding. The critters cant hit what they cant see. And your RT instances are way less with firing a bow. (50% less)

Also dont forget to eblade your arrows.

CMs to consider with a ranged rogue:
combat mobility (stand you up when attacked while prone)
shadow mastery (reduction in sneak RT, better hiding)
wspec1 arrows
wspec2 bolts (if you stick with crossbow use)

Guild skills to get ASAP:
gambits (lets you stand, kneel, sit, etc. while hiding)
stun manuevers (lets you recover dropped or sheathed gear while stunned as well as lets you move rooms while stunned)
sweep
cheapshot
subdue

[Sthrockmorton]

your strength is pretty low, so as a result, you may also want to consider picking up the CMAN surge of strength to lower your RT, 2 ranks would lower it 1 second.

Sniping from hiding is very great, but keep in mind you wont be able to do it effectively until you'e probably in your mid 20's. So don't get too frustrated if it doesnt work well at first.

[Celephais]

From your stats (generally when asking questions it's helpful to post starting and goal... obviously your goal is lvl 100 so lvl 100 stats)

STR 64 - 100 (@96)
CON 73 -97
DEX 66 - 100 (@78)
AGI 52 - 100 (@78)
DIS 72 - 96
AUR 73 - 93
LOG 70 - 98
INT 50 - 92
WIS 68 - 83
INF 72 - 92

It's clear you're considering a longterm investment (is that wise? Do you plan to sell/not earn a fixstat prior to reaching 100? Are you really going to cap this character?) Characters w/ good midlevel stats are a lot more fun to play and you'll be more likely to cap them, and you'll cap faster, then you can always fixstat.

Your training plan is very PTP intensive, and your physical stats aren't really that high, and being a Delf they're slow going... Do you really need that high of an INF? Some food for thought.

[Zanifer]

It's clear you're considering a longterm investment (is that wise? Do you plan to sell/not earn a fixstat prior to reaching 100?.

They have fixstats you can earn now? (I've been away for a few years and figured it was the same with stats as it was prior to my absence)

If this is the case I may re-do my stats while I still can, perhaps aiming for around maximum benefit of 40 instead of all around decent at 100, then re-do the stats around 75 where the lower stats wouldn't be as harmful. How does one earn the fixstats?

Also thank you all for the great info. I will just get brig and then stop armor for other points, I didn't know I could use wspec on arrows and bolts, so it seems CM will stay doubled for a bit.

As for the bow / crossbow aspect, I suppose I will use my crossbow until 10, then swap to my wand bow. I might drop mobility at that point to go strictly bow, it just seemed more roguish and dark elfish to use a crossbow, don't know why.

Thanks again. Oh, and one more thing, how does the Perc and Ambush effect the AS? I read somewhere doubling is the max benefit? Should I drop perc to 2x instead of 3x? Thanks.

[Celephais]

Fixstats are earned through the bounty system, they're the top tier (well they said there might be a "hidden" reward) prize at 1 million points... takes a lot but you should earn that by cap no problem. They sell for something like 35 mil or so... but considering how much faster you get can to cap if you're properly stated for it, and then spend the extra time "paying" for the fixstat, it's well worth it.

[Gan]

Perception has both AS and DS benefits. I'd keep it as high as possible if I still owned an archer/rogue. ;)

[AestheticDeath]

I would imagine you are looking at over 400 hours worth of bounty tasks to get that fixstat potion. And I would much rather sell it, than have to use it on myself.

And I haven't seen them sell as cheap as 35m

[Celephais]

I would imagine you are looking at over 400 hours worth of bounty tasks to get that fixstat potion. And I would much rather sell it, than have to use it on myself.

And I haven't seen them sell as cheap as 35m

And you're looking at some 4,000 hours to cap! And by the time he caps (couple years) the price will have gone down anyway because of all the capped people who would overpay for them already have, and the crazy influx of bounty points. No reason to slow yourself down early on when fixstat potions are now availible.

[Sthrockmorton]

Every two ranks of perception and ambush raise your AS by 1, after 40 ranks are achieved in both.

Also, prices are slowly starting to drop. I just got a fix-stat for 35 this week.

[AestheticDeath]

Having stats placed for stat growth isn't so much of a hindrance as you make it out to be. Most of my guys are trained for stat growth. And though they might hunt slower in some instances, they are still perfectly viable.

For the amount of time it takes you to complete the necessary bounties to get the potion, you could make twice as much coin as it costs to buy it at 40m, if you were coin hunting instead of bounty hunting.

Basically I just don't suggest planning on wasting a ton of coin later on if you can get around it with better planning before hand. You could use those coins on something else.

[Ignot]

Until they nerf fixstats.

[Sthrockmorton]

how you think they'll do that?

[Anebriated]

It depends on the class/race really on whether or not placing stats for growth can be hindering. Placing stats for growth on a halfling wiz is going to be harsh at lower levels etc. I found Rangers to be pretty solid as long as the stats are reasonable, I had mine placed for growth when I played Elrodin and never had any big issues.

[Celephais]

Having stats placed for stat growth isn't so much of a hindrance as you make it out to be. Most of my guys are trained for stat growth. And though they might hunt slower in some instances, they are still perfectly viable.

For the amount of time it takes you to complete the necessary bounties to get the potion, you could make twice as much coin as it costs to buy it at 40m, if you were coin hunting instead of bounty hunting.

Basically I just don't suggest planning on wasting a ton of coin later on if you can get around it with better planning before hand. You could use those coins on something else.


It depends on the class/race really on whether or not placing stats for growth can be hindering. Placing stats for growth on a halfling wiz is going to be harsh at lower levels etc. I found Rangers to be pretty solid as long as the stats are reasonable, I had mine placed for growth when I played Elrodin and never had any big issues.

His darkelf rogue archer stats placed for 100's at cap are certainly going to be a hinderance at the level he is, which is what I'm discussing (I'll agree it's not worth it for some people). but a 66 str is going to force him to use a weaker bow or a longer RT, and he's got about 15 AS to grow into his DEX stat (not too big a deal), more importantly he's got mediocre training points, at a level where he doesn't have any room for wasted points (look at how tight his plan is).

He's going to be bounty hunting his way to cap anyway, because that's the best thing to do EXP wise, and I don't think bounty hunting takes away from coin hunting at cap... infact if you're coin hunting at cap and not taking a bounty every 15 minutes (dropping the shit ones), you're wasting money. By the time he reaches cap he'll certainly have enough for a fixstat, and I really don't think they'll have nearly the value they have now, between that and the fact that he'll be reaching cap faster I don't see much of an arguement for him to place for 100's at 100 when he's this low level.

[Anebriated]

The cool thing about archers is its pretty easy to eye-crit once you have 15-20 levels under your belt. It wont matter too much what type of bow you use, and even if you use one that is a bit big for your STR if you can kill the mob in one shot does it matter what the RT is? get a good number of sweep ranks asap when you get into the rogue guild and you should be set.

[AestheticDeath]

You are assuming anyone and everyone likes bounty hunting. I personally don't enjoy it to much myself.

And also, if you have a longer RT shooting a bow its not the end of the world. Any other weapon base you use is going to have a higher RT unless your using something weak as in dagger, short sword or something. As a rogue if your using that you would also be hiding and sniping and incurring a longer RT anyways. Sniping isn't a necessity with ranged, it can help with your defense though assuming you are a capable hider and don't get pulled out often.

Now I say that, and some might laugh because I am trying to sell off my self ammo bow for the sole reason of the extra RT I get from the recent changes. But my sole purpose in hunting is getting a maximum efficiency from my hunts as far as time goes. I want to either fry ASAP, and get back to rest - Or I want to kill as much as possible so as to fame hunt or coin hunt etc.. the sooner ones dead the sooner you get to the next.

Not everyone hunts that way, and were I going to recommend a hunting style to someone new to the game, I would recommend purposely shorting yourself a tiny bit - as in not maxing your stats for easy hunting early on - and find a hunting partner or group. Hunting is MUCH more fun, and much more efficient when you have friends along.

[Sthrockmorton]

Well put AD. If he's new to the game, he's gotta make it enjoyable.

Its always best when you have company. People to interact with, and it causes swarms, which are always exciting if you hunt over your training.

[Anebriated]

Yeah AD, you made a good point there. Im going on the assumption that they arent as worried about being extremely efficient(plus they are only what, 5?) hunting. If that was the goal then yes, the char should just be rerolled and rework the stats. If you dont mind being slightly below the norm then you are fine.