GM Protection

[CrystalTears]

I would just like to get some feedback and/or explanation of why GMs are the only ones who are not allowed to have their personal life spoken about.

There are personal attacks done on this board about a plethora of people, be it members, political figures, nobodies in news stories.. what makes GMs of a text based game immune from such discussions?

[Jolena]

Good God.

[CrystalTears]

Good God what? I wanted some understanding of why when it's regarding a GM, the staff is all over it. It's a discrimination that I have never understood.

This isn't about wanting to have the ability to make fun of any GM we want on any level. Frankly I understand not having any personal attacks. People however focus more when it's about a GM and then it becomes a different story.

[Ilvane]

It's different when it's an actual issue of the GM doing something wrong.

It's entirely different when you go into the reasons behind said persons divorce, the reason behind it, the girlfriend he's involved with, what he's done in his life, etc..

Nevermind that this guy is a genuinely nice guy who doesn't deserve a bunch of morons going on about him.

It's not about protecting GM's. It's about protecting a person from being attacked in general.

I'd venture you wouldn't appreciate your personal life broadcast over the internet for everyone to see either.

Angela

[Tea & Strumpets]

Good God what? I wanted some understanding of why when it's regarding a GM, the staff is all over it. It's a discrimination that I have never understood.

This isn't about wanting to have the ability to make fun of any GM we want on any level. Frankly I understand not having any personal attacks. People however focus more when it's about a GM and then it becomes a different story.

I don't get it either. Ilvane's comments in the previous thread (threats to delete posts) are completely assinine.

And when the fuck did personal attacks become out of bounds? Ridiculous double standard. I don't read this board to see a bunch of moderated bullshit, I read it because there is very little moderation (as it should be).

I called Warden an imbecile in another thread today. Is that cool, or does Ilvane like him and my post will have to be deleted?

[Jolena]

The thing is, people are going to say that 'He put his personal life out there' or 'She put their personal life out there' but the truth is, no its not that simple. They have both said that they are a couple, and they have appeared at con's together, yes but neither of them has said "Oh I got a divorce" or "I split up with this person" and everything else that is being said is just vicious, mean-spirited, personal attacks AND supposition.

Discussion of the GM in question and whether or not he shows favoritism to his girlfriend is one thing. Talking about his divorce, tossing out things like his girlfriend is a fat whore and is sucking dick for merchant work, etc is not on topic and shouldn't even be brought into the discussion. Those things weren't put out there by the GM or the girlfriend either, so that's why I have an issue with it. (Though I do think that it should be done for everyone, not just a GM because he's a nice guy)

[Sean of the Thread]

Lol what a joke.

[Ilvane]

Right, discuss all you want about so called favoritism, show proof if you have it, but don't bring personal attacks into it.

I don't think it's that unreasonable.

[CrystalTears]

First of all, I didn't want a response from you, but I got it anyway. Oh well.

Second, if I had stated my personal business on the internet for others to pick on, that's a burden I have to take. If people want to mock me for something, I'm old enough to be able to take care of myself. That was my mistake to deal with.

Third, it IS about protecting favorite GMs because if anyone else was being discussed in the same fashion and they didn't take the time to register to the boards to report and/or IM a moderator to remove it, it would stay for the most part. I've just noticed that when it comes to a GM, it's all about protecting their privacy, and I don't remember ever reading any rules that we have to protect their identity or public knowledge of personal life.

[Sean of the Thread]

You've (Ilvane) admitted it's directly effecting your moderation because these personal attacks are against your so called "friends" as well.

Do you have any clue how idiotic that makes you look? That's rhetorical don't bother answering.

[Jolena]

Second, if I had stated my personal business on the internet for others to pick on, that's a burden I have to take. If people want to mock me for something, I'm old enough to be able to take care of myself. That was my mistake to deal with.

That's the issue, really. Never did Khal state on the internet about his divorce. Yet, its being brought up and justified because of what reason?

[Celephais]

It's different when it's an actual issue of the GM doing something wrong.

Right and wrong is not a deterministic quality, I might think him getting a divorce is wrong.


It's entirely different when you go into the reasons behind said persons divorce, the reason behind it, the girlfriend he's involved with, what he's done in his life, etc..

we do this all the time w/ politicians, people in news stories, and even posters here, not only that, but a nice little thing called causality means we're always going into the reasons behind things, if you don't, you're not understanding what you're talking about.


Nevermind that this guy is a genuinely nice guy who doesn't deserve a bunch of morons going on about him.

Yes, nevermind this, it's entirely irrelevant.


It's not about protecting GM's. It's about protecting a person from being attacked in general.

Why do we allow personal attacks against anyone if that's the case? Completely irrational arguement there.


I'd venture you wouldn't appreciate your personal life broadcast over the internet for everyone to see either.

Pretty standard way to avoid that is to not inform others about your personal life, I think just about anyone can appreciate that.

Normally I stay out of the whole bash Ilvane treand, but you really really stuck your neck out on this one in a biased fashion.

[Drew]

I would just like to get some feedback and/or explanation of why GMs are the only ones who are not allowed to have their personal life spoken about.

There are personal attacks done on this board about a plethora of people, be it members, political figures, nobodies in news stories.. what makes GMs of a text based game immune from such discussions?


Exactly, just because you chat with them on IM or go to cons with them doesn't mean they deserve special protection that every other person on these boards don't get. Otherwise I want every post where Nienieque calls me a fucking idiot or likewise deleted and warnings issued (note: I don't actually want this because I'm an adult and can handle it).

We should have one policy for everyone and protecting your favorite GM should not be it.

[CrystalTears]

Eh, ya know, it was common knowledge that he got married to another GM at a con once. They broke up. It was practically common knowledge that he's seeing someone new. You want someone to make an official internet document supporting that? Just because someone brought it up to clarify how he's with someone else is not bashing anyone. If you want people to continue to think that's he married and cheating on said person, fine. Personally I think that would be worse, don't you think?

[Sean of the Thread]

That's the issue, really. Never did Khal state on the internet about his divorce. Yet, its being brought up and justified because of what reason?

Must be the internet pixies spreading the "rumor" about his divorce and penis problems.

Somebody must have shared the information to begin with..

[Sean]

It's not just about Khaladon though he's just the flavor of the day. If your going to take the stance and actually enforce the ToS portion of no personal attacks than makes it uniform to all posters. The makeup of the PC would be fairly different (good or bad) in its makeup if that rule was evenly leveled. Oh and Ilvane whether or not a GM is a nice person is completely irrelevant.

Anyway, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but does the PC extend certain protections to GMs that it doesn't extend to players? Like not being allowed to out a GMs PC? Atleast thats how I recall the precedent being set but again I may be wrong.

[Sean of the Thread]

Well in Ilvane's defense she did try to give me a "pc warning" for insulting her. At least she is consistent with her favoritism.

[Drew]

That's the issue, really. Never did Khal state on the internet about his divorce. Yet, its being brought up and justified because of what reason?



I stopped reading that thread 70 posts ago because I don't care about Khaladon and who he is dating, but if the guy talks about his personal life at cons with other players it's completely germane. I don't understand your "he didn't mention it on the internet" point, must we only discuss things mentioned on the internet? The guy has clearly made some part of his personal life intertwined with Gemstone and that's what this board is about ostensibly.

[Jolena]

I think the responses to a poster asking why he got divorced should have been pulled. :shrug: "A fat whore who is sucking dick for alterations", "Cyber in the consult lounge" and things such as that are things that don't belong in that discussion in my opinion. Of course, those things also don't belong in other threads in my opinion, which is why I don't apply to moderate threads here. I'd have too much to do with this forum if I were to remove every personal attack that didn't belong there.

P.S. I do agree with you that the rule of no personal attacks should be used across the board with every poster, and not just with a GM.

[Sean of the Thread]

Is this a bad time to bring up Wezas?

[Jolena]

I stopped reading that thread 70 posts ago because I don't care about Khaladon and who he is dating, but if the guy talks about his personal life at cons with other players it's completely germane. I don't understand your "he didn't mention it on the internet" point, must we only discuss things mentioned on the internet? The guy has clearly made some part of his personal life intertwined with Gemstone and that's what this board is about ostensibly.


This would be why I said that - in response to this statement specifically.


Second, if I had stated my personal business on the internet for others to pick on, that's a burden I have to take. If people want to mock me for something, I'm old enough to be able to take care of myself. That was my mistake to deal with.

[CrystalTears]

I stated it that way because I don't attend cons and I haven't met most people here. However if I showed up to every GS party or con with a different guy on my arm, people would talk, and I wouldn't blame them for that.

[Celephais]

But CT's post still applies if she said "If I had stated my personal business" ... be it at a con, in a chat room, over the phone, or to her cooch in the shower. It doesn't matter, if you state it, it's out there.

[Satira]

This WOULD be an interesting time to bring up Wezas.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jolena
Those things weren't put out there by the GM or the girlfriend either, so that's why I have an issue with it.

The problem with this statement is that despite what they may say after the fact no one but the original parties involved will ever actually know whats transpired. What he said to whoever, what she said to whoever, and what they say to you about what they may or may not have said can all be totally different.

[CrystalTears]

or to her cooch in the shower.Stalker!

[Drew]

This would be why I said that - in response to this statement specifically.


Gotcha.


Also, I forgot what happened with Wezas, didn't he get caught by his SO doing something or other wrong?

[Hips]

I must be out of the loop, wtf happened with Wezas?

[CrystalTears]

I'm afraid of saying anything about Wezas or this thread will get pwnt.

[Satira]

I guess we'll never know. He must have been a GM, since those are the people who get protection.

I heard from Bobby that Susan said that Jane said that these people don't even exist.

[Sean of the Thread]

Let us not forget the Nobody Care's episode where she willingly gave a four dudes in a chat room web cam of her nasty moldy green bra. Posting about that even though she GAVE us the chat/footage became bannable. Laughable.

Let us not forget the Arkan's episode which occurred completely OUTSIDE the PC via an aim message and chat room. Evidently because he was friends with HN I was threated with banishment from PC if I ever did it again even though it had absolutely nothing to do with the PC. rofl.

At least the majority of you tards are consistent.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I guess we'll never know. He must have been a GM, since those are the people who get protection.

I heard from Bobby that Susan said that Jane said that these people don't even exist.

Let's not talk about Wezas. I liked him and he was funny. Any more comments about the W-man will be deleted.

[Ilvane]

Yeah, I'm sorry if I feel personal attacks are not necessary to win an argument. I'm not sorry for feeling that you should think about the people behind the screen a bit before trying to demolish them on the boards.

For me it goes across the board. I would rather the personal attack bull stop, and have a more civil tone.

I know I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Angela

[Celephais]

GAH!

[Tea & Strumpets]

I know I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Angela

Could I have a list of your friends so I know who not to mention?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean2
Let us not forget the Arkan's episode which occurred completely OUTSIDE the PC via an aim message and chat room. Evidently because he was friends with HN I was threated with banishment from PC if I ever did it again even though it had absolutely nothing to do with the PC. rofl.

You better not IM any GMs girlfriends because then you'll be on double secret probation.

[Sean of the Thread]

Let's not talk about Wezas. I liked him and he was funny. Any more comments about the W-man will be deleted.

I agree there is no need to bring up the wezer. My mention of him was purely facetious giving the topic and was in no way meant to stir that pot.

[Ilvane]

I think the rush to judgement that there is any favoritism going on here is kind of stupid, mainly because no one has taken down any of the thread or discussions.

:shrug:

[Sean of the Thread]

You better not IM any GMs girlfriends because then you'll be on double secret probation.

Oh noez! Does posting derogatory comments under gothique's and Khal's OOC pic page count.. if so I may or may not be in deep double secret probation.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/animalhouse547.sized.jpg

[Celephais]

I think the rush to judgement that there is any favoritism going on here is kind of stupid, mainly because no one has taken down any of the thread or discussions.

:shrug:

... so we should ignore your threats? Roger that.

[Sean of the Thread]

I think the rush to judgement that there is any favoritism going on here is kind of stupid, mainly because no one has taken down any of the thread or discussions.

:shrug:

In the future to prevent damage to the transmission you should come to a complete stop before slamming it into reverse.

[CrystalTears]

I think the rush to judgement that there is any favoritism going on here is kind of stupid, mainly because no one has taken down any of the thread or discussions.

:shrug:
Because if there had been, we would be able to see them to refer to them right? Idiot.

[Ilvane]

Oh, I'm sure you would have heard the screaming of the consipiracy theorists if posts had been taken down, moron.

Angela

[Celephais]

In the future to prevent damage to the transmission you should come to a complete stop before slamming it into reverse.

:rofl:

[Sean of the Thread]

The obvious favoritism here over the years is far from conspiracy.

[CrystalTears]

Oh yes because people have never complained about staff covering up for GMs and such right?

[Celephais]

4th gear:

I'm warning you, stop the personal attacks.

Keep it up, and posts will be deleted.

If you have a staff issue, talk about the issue, not the staff members personal life.

Angela

KKRRKRCCKKKKKChhhh


I think the rush to judgement that there is any favoritism going on here is kind of stupid, mainly because no one has taken down any of the thread or discussions.

:shrug:

Just thought they'd look good together.

[CrystalTears]

In her defense, she didn't take anything down in that thread because she doesn't have the authority to. However in the threads where she HAS the authority she doesn't do anything. So... yeah.

[Sean of the Thread]

4th gear:


KKRRKRCCKKKKKChhhh



Just thought they'd look good together.

Sounds like someone needs to talk to the Meineke man.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Ilvane
Yeah, I'm sorry if I feel personal attacks are not necessary to win an argument. I'm not sorry for feeling that you should think about the people behind the screen a bit before trying to demolish them on the boards.

For me it goes across the board. I would rather the personal attack bull stop, and have a more civil tone.

I know I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Angela

This is ridiculous. You proved it yourself with why this notion doesn't work when you threw your hissy fit and deleted your posts from the Sicko thread. What you and what everyone else responding to you felt were personal attacks were 2 different things. Clearly as staff for the board you have the upper hand in getting to pick and choose what you view as a personal attack in certain folders and the ultimate say belongs to Kranar but I for one thing it would pretty impossible to establish a clear boundry of what constitutes a personal attack and apply it evenly.

My .02

[StrayRogue]

They get protection because a number of Mods are their friends OOG. It's got very little else to do with it. It certainly isn't being done because of some higher purpose (like, God forbid, the TOS). It's playing kiss my ass and I'll kiss your ass.

Which is fucking pathetic. Especially for boards as no-holds-barred as these.

[Ilvane]

I allow threads to go, in the ones I do moderate, because I believe in the same kind of "free speech" that most of you do.

However, if you can't discern the difference between talking about someones personal life and talking about a true issue with something a GM does in game that is favoritism in your eyes, or you have proof of said favoritism, it's not me with the problem.

Angela

[Sean of the Thread]

There you go with the PROOF bullshit when it comes to your friends. That's the great part about free speech and open discussion. You don't need proof of fucking anything.

Apparently we only need proof when it comes to something about your friends?

[StrayRogue]

From a U2U I recieved months back after a post alteration:

"I removed your part about XXX being a GM. We don't out GMs PCs here as per the general rules and have removed several references to them in the past."

[Celephais]

However, if you can't discern the difference between talking about someones personal life and talking about a true issue with something a GM does in game that is favoritism in your eyes...

Umm.. you're aware that the thread in question is saying that the GM brought his personal life into the game, so in order to talk about the "true issue with the GM", you have to talk about their personal life, because that is the issue.

[Sean of the Thread]

At least they sent you a u2u as per policy describing the change. Most are changed with no explanation.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Ilvane
I allow threads to go, in the ones I do moderate, because I believe in the same kind of "free speech" that most of you do.

I'm assuming your just referring to Politics unless you meant those lengthy debates in Elanthian Geography. I'd be curious to know what political debates you let continue because of your graciousness and belief in the power of "free speech" that you would have closed otherwise.

[Sean of the Thread]

Nonsense. Skirmy wears the pants in the politics folder and does quite a damned good job. Ilvane obviously plays second fiddle.. and skirmy would never let her do/say anything as stupid as this in her folder.

[Gan]

In the future to prevent damage to the transmission you should come to a complete stop before slamming it into reverse.

x 1000.


ILLVANE, MY GOD YOU'RE SUCH A IDIOT WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS OR MODERATING. Please slam all of your fingers in a car door repeatedly, non-fatally of course, so you can stop spewing your idiotic and obviously biased bullshit in these threads. FOR GODS SAKE JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.

The Wezas rule, for those who were asking, stems from having a loved one read what you write here on the PC and not understanding the context of when and how it was written, which leads to RL bannination by said loved one. Golden rule there is to pay attention to what you write about and who you write about, because you never know who might be reading it...

The blatant over-moderation in the Khaladon related thread is just more proof that the delete queen (Illvane) needs to step down from moderation. I THINK I'LL START A POLL...

If you cant stand a little scrutiny or live with the fact that someone from the internet called you names, then you need to read the FIRST POST IN MY SIGNATURE.

HAVE A MERRY FUCKING DAY.

[Jolena]

It's Ilvane..one L

[Xaerve]

Can someone paste a link to the Khal thread?

[Gan]

It's Ilvane..one L

2 L's because she makes me ILL.

[CrystalTears]

I think Ganalon is saying she's sick in the head. :tongue:

[Jolena]

Daaayum.

[Xaerve]

Holy quick posters batman -- now link the Khal thread plz!

[Fallen]

It is the post pulled quick thread. I understand no one likes favoritism, but are you all really fighting tooth and nail for the ability to insult people on a personal level?

"I heard you in that one thread say your mom has cancer. Since you put it up there...FUCK YOU, I HOPE THEY BURY YOUR ASS WITH HERS IN THE SAME COFFIN!"

[Gan]

Yeah, I'm sorry if I feel personal attacks are not necessary to win an argument. I'm not sorry for feeling that you should think about the people behind the screen a bit before trying to demolish them on the boards.

For me it goes across the board. I would rather the personal attack bull stop, and have a more civil tone.

I know I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Angela


Oh, I'm sure you would have heard the screaming of the consipiracy theorists if posts had been taken down, moron.

Angela

:clap:

[Ilvane]

You really have far too much time on your hands.

[Xaerve]

Ganalon makes a strong point on this page!

[Gan]

You really have far too much time on your hands.

This is the first half hour today I've had time to sit down and post aside from early this morning.

PS. It doesnt take long to coorelate your hypocrisy/stupidity/etc. here on the PC. In fact, you give us new examples daily.

[CrystalTears]

TIn fact, you give us new examples daily.
When she doesn't delete them first.

[CrystalTears]

It is the post pulled quick thread. I understand no one likes favoritism, but are you all really fighting tooth and nail for the ability to insult people on a personal level?

"I heard you in that one thread say your mom has cancer. Since you put it up there...FUCK YOU, I HOPE THEY BURY YOUR ASS WITH HERS IN THE SAME COFFIN!"
No, that wasn't my point at all. As StrayRogue stated above with his PM about not outting GMs, I wanted to know why the special treatment for them. So what if they get outted, or someone states that they got a divorce, or is living with some other player. It's no different than what people say about others. I wanted to know why GMs are unique to this.

[Fallen]

Fair enough. It should just be expected that this board will be a place where people will sink to any and all depths to get a laugh, or a burn, or one-up someone..myself included, I suppose. Moderation to the otherwise is likely a mistake. Instead, an effort should be made to make known that this is what takes place on the PC boards, and registering to post here makes you subject to this sort of treatment.

To answer in a more direct manner, no. I do not think GMs should be afforded special protection, and it is very unlikely it will be afforded to everyone, and that seems to be cause enough to not bother to offer protection against insults and what not to ANYONE.

[Artha]

So what if they get outted
We don't want them harassed in game because of things that are said here.

[CrystalTears]

But it's okay to get harassed as a player?

[Ilvane]

Yes, of course..

[CrystalTears]

This is a conversation between A and B so C yourself out please. Thanks.

[Fallen]

But it's okay to get harassed as a player?

To play Devil's Advocate, can you name a player who requested that information provided here be pulled was refused?

[Sean]

Paraphrased from the Original Posted by Ilvane
Just look at what they do to me

You can be our head martyr.

[Sean]

<<To play Devil's Advocate, can you name a player who requested that information provided here be pulled was refused?>>

I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. NC didn't get her SN removed from some posts as she requested because she originally supplied it via her profile.

[Nieninque]

I really dont know why people are bitching about Ilvane deleting posts anyway.
It's not like she doesnt just come along afterwards and say the same things all over again.

[thefarmer]

You really have far too much time on your hands.

Your reply was a mere few minutes after Ganalon's post. I've also noticed you've kept up the replies fairly quickly. If this was supposed to be insulting, it's good to know you're big enough to insult yourself as well as others.

I also noticed you chose to sidestep the point, rather than address it directly. Did you need more time to formulate a proper response?

[Alfster]

<<To play Devil's Advocate, can you name a player who requested that information provided here be pulled was refused?>>

I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. NC didn't get her SN removed from some posts as she requested because she originally supplied it via her profile.

Gothique's screenname got deleted even though it's in her profile under

THe Cat In The Hat

I don't get it, only reason i see is because it was a conversation about her boyfriend (Khal)

[Alfster]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v686/pottymouth30/goth.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, I'm sorry if I feel personal attacks are not necessary to win an argument.


Oh, I'm sure you would have heard the screaming of the consipiracy theorists if posts had been taken down, moron

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/hypocrite-1.jpg

[Parkbandit]

:clap:

You son of a bitch. I demand you delete this post, as I also posted the Backlash award with it.. instead of just clapping hands.

That and I had to edit the fucking thing twice to line up the quotes.

[Alfster]

It's because your old that you couldn't line them up

OH NOEZ, PERSONAL ATTACK

[Parkbandit]

It's because your old that you couldn't line them up

OH NOEZ, PERSONAL ATTACK

If I was a GM that Ilvane liked, this post would be gone.

I would report it.. but since she doesn't like me, nothing will be done.

So.. I'm willing to forgive you if you say something nice about me.. you know, to balance out your karma scale.

[Sean]

As funny as it is when Stupid calls someone a moron. Calling someone a moron doesn't meet the definition of the personal insult rule as I read it:

Any member who posts invasive or insulting content of a personal nature against another member of the Players’ Corner is in violation of the forum policy and subject to a violation count increase of at least 4 and at most 8. Content is said to be of a personal nature if it can be deemed to in any way critically point at the more intimate and unique aspects of a member and is not to be confused with content of a general nature.

[Gan]

You son of a bitch. I demand you delete this post, as I also posted the Backlash award with it.. instead of just clapping hands.

That and I had to edit the fucking thing twice to line up the quotes.

LOL

Dont blame me cause I'm not quite as old and slow as you are. ;)

PS. Did you vote in my poll (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=26063)on Illvane yet?

[Parkbandit]

LOL

Dont blame me cause I'm not quite as old and slow as you are. ;)

PS. Did you vote in my poll on Illvane yet?

Be thankful that I am not a GM of GS4 that Ilvane liked or this would cost you 6 demerit points.

And yea I voted.. can you guess which way?

:lol:

[Parkbandit]

As funny as it is when Stupid calls someone a moron. Calling someone a moron doesn't meet the definition of the personal insult rule as I read it:

Any member who posts invasive or insulting content of a personal nature against another member of the Players’ Corner is in violation of the forum policy and subject to a violation count increase of at least 4 and at most 8. Content is said to be of a personal nature if it can be deemed to in any way critically point at the more intimate and unique aspects of a member and is not to be confused with content of a general nature.


Well we do agree on one point. She is teh Stupid.

[Rue]

Fair enough. It should just be expected that this board will be a place where people will sink to any and all depths to get a laugh, or a burn, or one-up someone..myself included, I suppose. Moderation to the otherwise is likely a mistake. Instead, an effort should be made to make known that this is what takes place on the PC boards, and registering to post here makes you subject to this sort of treatment.

To answer in a more direct manner, no. I do not think GMs should be afforded special protection, and it is very unlikely it will be afforded to everyone, and that seems to be cause enough to not bother to offer protection against insults and what not to ANYONE.

Exactly

[Sean of the Thread]

Well we do agree on one point. She is teh Stupid.

She's not stupid she's just intellectually challenged.

[Alfster]

better watch out, she'll slap your hand

[Gan]

Or delete them entirely.

[FinisWolf]

Yeah, I'm sorry if I feel personal attacks are not necessary to win an argument. I'm not sorry for feeling that you should think about the people behind the screen a bit before trying to demolish them on the boards.

For me it goes across the board. I would rather the personal attack bull stop, and have a more civil tone.

I know I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Angela

I am sorry, you are moving us more and more towards the officials. And like others have stated, many do not come here for the official's Nazi chokehold on our throats. Many even like free speech, and the 22nd Century, but then others do tend to live in the 14th thru 18th centuries.

I am not agreeing with comments against someone, but then if you stop those, then you should stop the ones for people. :shrug: Guess this just kinda supports FREE speech, no matter how retarded the person is at the time of the post.

I don't think I need to say more.

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

I am sorry, you are moving us more and more towards the officials.I would get this post pulled by putting :wtf: if this was the officials. Let's maintain some frame of reference, eh?

Free speech has never been an excuse for harassment, not even in the 21st century. In no way is this topic a free speech issue, and it demeans you to portray it as such.

The only question here is whether a GM should receive protection beyond that a player would receive: the only answer is he or she should not.

[Kranar]

The only question here is whether a GM should receive protection beyond that a player would receive: the only answer is he or she should not.


Personal information about a player really should not be posted on the forums period. Things like a person's name, address, family, contact information should stay off the forums unless that person has provided that information themselves.

This issue is not so clear cut because at the same time, we do welcome players to come to the forums to openly express their frustration and problems with the game, and many times in the past, such problems are the result of people at Simutronics mixing their real life with the game. There is no rigorous and well defined way of drawing that line, and it troubles me that when some moderators are trying to respect a GMs personal life as opposed to getting on the bandwagon and joining in on the bashing, that it would result in this.

The thread itself will remain, but some of the comments which are clearly overboard and personally offensive should and will be removed.

[Sean of the Thread]

Your par for course remark on the matter took longer than expected this time.

To sum it up. Bottom line is that GM's are afforded more protection than any of the other posters. (unless of course you're a friend of a mod or gm).

[Sean of the Thread]

Khaladon's all too famous personal life with Gothique amongst others being spoken about.

Illvane the worthless decided it was her job to stick up for her friends. (as opposed to anyone else that this happens to daily)

She even went so far to admit it was because they're her friends as the reasoning. Which started the favoritism uproar.. which already existed with gms prior to the "but they're my friends" comment.

[Warriorbird]

So guys...if she was a conservative stooge...would you give a fuck?

I don't think so.

[Sean of the Thread]

So guys...if she was a conservative stooge...would you give a fuck?

I don't think so.

Wouldn't make a difference to me. Can't speak for the others.

[FinisWolf]

The only question here is whether a GM should receive protection beyond that a player would receive: the only answer is he or she should not.

Precisely.

Free speech means unmoderated speech. (Within social norms) You can't say something like, talk bad about Jews, but do't talk bad about Germans.

We really did say the same thing.

Finis

[Gan]

So guys...if she was a conservative stooge...would you give a fuck?

I don't think so.

Actually it would not make any difference what her political views are. I can live with the fact that her political views differ from mine. What I find funny and warrented to be called out on is her blatant hypocrisy, idiotic ideas (from any perspective), and her inconsistency with her moderator authority.

Perhaps you dont think so, but you dont think for me.

[FinisWolf]

Just a little humor:

----

MOD: Ganalon, you are posting nonsensical crap.

GANALON: Perhaps you think so, but you don't think for me.

MOD: I do TODAY!

MOD DELETES GANALON

----

Again, just a little joke. Maybe folks will take pause for a moment.

Finis

[Gan]

Personal information about a player really should not be posted on the forums period. Things like a person's name, address, family, contact information should stay off the forums unless that person has provided that information themselves.

This issue is not so clear cut because at the same time, we do welcome players to come to the forums to openly express their frustration and problems with the game, and many times in the past, such problems are the result of people at Simutronics mixing their real life with the game. There is no rigorous and well defined way of drawing that line, and it troubles me that when some moderators are trying to respect a GMs personal life as opposed to getting on the bandwagon and joining in on the bashing, that it would result in this.

The thread itself will remain, but some of the comments which are clearly overboard and personally offensive should and will be removed.

I agree that personal information, such as what you described above (see bold) should not be disclosed for any reason. With privacy comes responsibility. However, if said information is freely given out by the owner then by simple rule, its fair game. Period.

In the Khaladon case, its one thing to moderate personal information given out. Its also very challenging to keep up with information that appears personal in nature but yet also seems completely fabricated. In this instance its more understandtable to error on the side of caution and censor it.

HOWEVER, as demonstrated in the thread in question. There has been specific moderator behavor that has attempted to silence any and all critique of a GM, even when said critique has no disclosure of ANY personal information. This is what has some people up in arms about. And this is what seems to be an underlying issue with the moderator in question.


And LOL at Finis ^^^. I like the analagy.

[Ilvane]

Actually, there wasn't.

The problem was with the personal attacks on the GM, I specifically said that.

Angela

[FinisWolf]

Sounds like I really need to read this thread, where is it?

Finis

: preparing for a boring thread link :

[Warriorbird]

I kind of think that non GMs would've complained about some of the shit posted that DID NOT get pulled.

There's lines that can be crossed whether people are GMs or not.

[Sean of the Thread]

Actually, there wasn't.

The problem was with the personal attacks on the GM, I specifically said that.

Angela

Don't forget you specifically stated that the problem was they were friends as well.

rofl

[Skirmisher]

I think GM's should be able to keep their private characters private, but those who have over the years simply come to be too well known may have to put up with closer scrutiny if they wish to continue playing those characters.

That means that though they shouldn't be attacked for every breath they take, you should have some avenue to debate it as we all know the officials will disappear any post sounding critical of GM's.

BUT, if you do have an issue to bring up at least come with some minimal proof as a log or a second witness to the questionable behavior instead of flinging around innuendo.

[Back]

MOD: Ganalon, you are posting nonsensical crap.

GANALON: Perhaps you think so, but you don't think for me.

MOD: I do TODAY!

MOD DELETES GANALON

Haha. We can wish.

[Ignot]

Not everyone has to be treated equally.

[Asha]

I didn't know they had any kind of respect or special attention.

[Ilvane]

I want to be clear, again.

Jenn and Paul are my friends, yes..but this has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking the behavior and personal attacks. If it had been any other person on this board(yes, even Sean2 or CT, or someone who doesn't care for me much) that had had to endure the same kind of posts and attacks, I would have done the same thing.

Regardless of what you may think, I enjoy a good debate on something that doesn't retort to personal attack and innuendo about someones personal life. I feel that it doesn't have a place in a debate about someones professional behavior.

If you have proof that Khaladon was giving special favors to anyone, then by all means, show this proof, and don't resort to talking about who Paul is dating, who he was married to, or whatever. That has no place in the discussion of his staff issues, whatsoever.

I hope I'm clear, here.

Angela

[CrystalTears]

First of all, for wanting to protect your friends, way to state their real names. You're a true pal.

I like them both too, however it is common knowledge among several of the GS community that Khaladon and Gothique's players are dating. Whether he's shown favoritism to HER sure does need to have proof behind it.

Granted I will agree that making nasty remarks about either of them shouldn't be said. I don't, however, see how it should matter if someone states that he has been divorced from the person he married at a con with GS witnesses in order to make something clear rather than have people assume something which could be potentially be worse for either of them.

My question arose from this but it's not about just this situation. GM special treatment has always been something that has gone on at the PC, and I just wanted to know the reasoning behind it.

Saying because mods are friends of theirs and respect them more than random, unknown players is a bit unfair. People have been outted here, stating "oh that's so and so's player" and have gone on to laugh about it, call that person names, discuss their "meaningless" personal lives and no one has said a word. I believe that person either needs the same treatment of privacy as the GM, or the GM needs to bite the bullet and admit that they will be found out and exposed and will have to deal with it just as much as the players.

[StrayRogue]

Exactly. These forums have always taken it upon itself to out the players of high profile peoples. Memories include Kurapia, Klaive, Warclaidhm, Quabu, Gracy, Lisu, Teeoncy, amongst many, many others. There was no mod protection then. Most of the time you laughed along with the rest of us.

Why the fuck does it matter, all of a sudden, whether or not we start turning the focus on actual GM's?

This is not the officials.

[sst]

Actually, there wasn't.

The problem was with the personal attacks on the GM, I specifically said that.

Angela

Ahh but its okay when you and others make personal attacks on people you dont like! I unerstand now! As long as its a GM and your friend its okay. Gotcha

[Ilvane]

How you are all getting that out of my statements is beyond me. I have stated the way I meant what I said, and I am done with it.

You want to think I would only do it because they were my friends, think that. It is simply not the case.

I don't know how else to say that I DON'T care if there is outward talk of the GM, as long as it ISN'T personal. Get it now? I don't know how many more ways I can say it.

:shrug:

Angela

[Gan]

I want to be clear, again.

Jenn and Paul are my friends, yes..
Angela


This post needs to be censored since Jenn and or Paul neither authorized nor posted this info here themselves, ergo you are posting sensitive and personal information about them.

[Alfster]

Personal information about a player really should not be posted on the forums period. Things like a person's name, address, family, contact information should stay off the forums unless that person has provided that information themselves.


I want to be clear, again.

Jenn and Paul are my friends, yes..but this has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking the behavior and personal attacks.
Angela




I don't know how else to say that I DON'T care if there is outward talk of the GM, as long as it ISN'T personal. Get it now? I don't know how many more ways I can say it.

:shrug:

Angela

Hey dumbass, why out their names then? BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO REALIZE THAT'S PERSONAL INFORMATION.

[Skirmisher]

People need to really get over this already.

And some people also should stop taking pot shots at Ilvane with every post.

I may not think all that highly of the posting methods of some of our posters but that does not mean i feel the need to insult them with every single post.

Have an issue with a moderator? Make your points in a cogent manner, not by behaving no better than some fourth grade bully flinging insults as if to impress the other kids.

You do it because you think you smell blood in the water and you think you are getting under her skin.

It's tired and for people who seem to pride yourselves on how clever you are compared to others you have an interesting ability to make yourselves look exactly the opposite when you employ such schoolyard tactics.

[Alfster]

Jenn and Paul sitting in a tree..
k
i
s
s
i
n
g

Is that better?

[Whimsi]

It does seem to be just the same three or four people that jump on board threads like this. Maybe they really think it's entertaining for the rest because they entertain each other? Lame.

[Artha]

It does seem to be just the same three or four people that jump on board threads like this. Maybe they really think it's entertaining for the rest because they entertain each other? Lame.
The Bitter Old Man Club strikes again!

[Parkbandit]

It does seem to be just the same three or four people that jump on board threads like this. Maybe they really think it's entertaining for the rest because they entertain each other? Lame.

What's lame is your inability to use simple math.

[Whimsi]

What's lame is your inability to use simple math.


Voting in a poll does not equal jumping on board and mercilessly bashing someone. Don't be an ignorant ass.

Oh forget the "ass" part...forgot who I was talking to for a moment.

[Alfster]

Oh noez, personal attack of the ass nature.

Cover your cornhole PB

[Parkbandit]

How you are all getting that out of my statements is beyond me. I have stated the way I meant what I said, and I am done with it.

You want to think I would only do it because they were my friends, think that. It is simply not the case.

I don't know how else to say that I DON'T care if there is outward talk of the GM, as long as it ISN'T personal. Get it now? I don't know how many more ways I can say it.

:shrug:

Angela


:shrug:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/WarclaidhmPic-6.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Voting in a poll does not equal jumping on board and mercilessly bashing someone. Don't be an ignorant ass.

Oh forget the "ass" part...forgot who I was talking to for a moment.

When you post.. I hear this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/AIlvane.jpg

[Whimsi]

When you post.. I hear this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/AIlvane.jpg

I've never encountered anyone on the internet as sensitive to even the mildest criticism than PB. lmao

[Parkbandit]

I've never encountered anyone on the internet as sensitive to even the mildest criticism than PB. lmao


I've encountered plenty of people who complain about people bashing other people.. but do the same thing in return. Hell, we have a dozen of them right on this board, including yourself. We call them hypocrites.

And I don't remember you criticising me in particular.

[Ilvane]

Again, if you can't see the difference between what a personal attack and a true criticism of a policy or "favoritism" is..that's not my problem.

Angela

[Alfster]

Jenn and Paul must be thaking you for outing their names

[Artha]

Their first names!!! They better watch out for IDENTITY THEFT!!1!

[Alfster]

Yes, because identity theft is the only reason someone wouldn't want their names out there..

Not to mention, neither Jenn or Paul put that information out there. Ilvane did.

[Sean]

I want to be clear, again.

Jenn and Paul are my friends, yes..but this has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking the behavior and personal attacks. If it had been any other person on this board(yes, even Sean2 or CT, or someone who doesn't care for me much) that had had to endure the same kind of posts and attacks, I would have done the same thing.

Regardless of what you may think, I enjoy a good debate on something that doesn't retort to personal attack and innuendo about someones personal life. I feel that it doesn't have a place in a debate about someones professional behavior.

If you have proof that Khaladon was giving special favors to anyone, then by all means, show this proof, and don't resort to talking about who Paul is dating, who he was married to, or whatever. That has no place in the discussion of his staff issues, whatsoever.

I hope I'm clear, here.

Angela


Fair enough, but if this is true then why even bring the fact that they are you're friends or that the gm in question is a nice person etc. into the picture? If you truely moderate without bias those "facts" become completely irrelevant. I don't know what you've moderated recently, if anything at all, and honestly it doesn't really matter. When you speak from the position as a mod of these boards it does carry some weight especially when you talk about what you would do or what should happen. Speaking about your Mod duties/abilities/etc. in a thread where you have no power doesn't help to distinguish your personal opinion from your modding which I think is the real problem here.


When you make comments such as:


I'm warning you, stop the personal attacks.

Keep it up, and posts will be deleted.

If you have a staff issue, talk about the issue, not the staff members personal life.

Angela

How are we supposed to seperate your personal feelings from your mod feelings, especially when you don't have the ability to backup what you've posted. You followed that up with:


This thread is treading on thin ice as it is. I'm not the moderator in this folder or it would have been cleaned up already for personal attacks on the GM in questions personal life. I'm not the slightest bit involved in the situation, but the two people who are being attacked by some idiots in this thread, are friends of mine, and I really don't appreciate the childish-ness at all.

Angela

As you clearly state you don't have any rights as a Mod so who are you to say the thread is on thin ice? Again you clearly can't be speaking from a position of authority yet you still choose to do so and to confuse matters even more you personalize your response by introducing your relationship with the "victims" of the thread. I understand that at times it's difficult to get a point across as a member of the PC and not as a Mod when you have the Mod title but you aren't helping yourself by trying to act as a mod when expressing your stance as a non mod. Sides if you can't see how this post came across as you protecting your friends that to quote you, "I can't help you."

Oh and I think it's been said a few times in this thread and in the Khal thread that if someone is accusing him of using his position as a GM and his personal relationships to affect the outcome of the game then yes his personal life is up for discussion. Maybe not why he got divorced (unless it's over some GS related shit I suppose) but certainly who hes currently involved with and interactions between them in the game and in his personal life as it relates to the game. But I honestly don't see why anyone has to offer "proof" of anything especially when they aren't presenting something as fact. The original post was "Isn't it suprising that yadda yadda happened." In the end it's all about the flying spaghetti monster.

[Sean]

Yes, because identity theft is the only reason someone wouldn't want their names out there..

Not to mention, neither Jenn or Paul put that information out there. Ilvane did.

Khaladon may not have posted his 1st name on this site but Gothique did. http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=17703

[Parkbandit]

Again, if you can't see the difference between what a personal attack and a true criticism of a policy or "favoritism" is..that's not my problem.

Angela

I could post here about how I am a flaming liberal.. but there are posts on this forum that say otherwise.

Same goes with your new claim on how fair and balanced you are and that your close friendship with the GMs in question had nothing at all to do with your decision to moderate the thread.

It's not my problem that this simple concept is so difficult for you to comprehend.

[Bobmuhthol]

This has nothing to do with anything, but..


Kithus and his lady are attending this year, all the usuals and hopefully some more new (over 18, sorry there's booze here...) faces

How fucking stupid can you get?

[DeV]

The Bitter Old Man Club strikes again!:rofl:

[Alfster]

Khaladon may not have posted his 1st name on this site but Gothique did. http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=17703

Fuckin' pwnd me.

My search came up negative.

[LazyBard]

I would just like to state for the record "thank you" for everyone who posted in this thread. You have just made part of my shitty sunday at work go much much faster. But please refrain next time from making me chuckle out loud at work. When I do my boss tends to stare at me like I am watching monkey porn or something.

[Methais]

:shrug:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/WarclaidhmPic-6.jpg

This thread now officially delivers.

Unlike this, which does not deliver:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a162/DoyleHargraves/digiorno-frozen-pizza.jpg

[Gnomad]

Jenn and Paul are my friends, yes..but this has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking the behavior and personal attacks. If it had been any other person on this board(yes, even Sean2 or CT, or someone who doesn't care for me much) that had had to endure the same kind of posts and attacks, I would have done the same thing.Endure the same kind of posts?

Good god, you'd think someone tied them to a chair with their eyes propped open and scrolled the thread in front of them. Relevant or not to the discussion, nobody is making "Jenn" or "Paul" read the thread.

That said, let's take it back to first grade here, to put things in perspective. Choose your own adventure.

You are a hall monitor. Those kids you don't really get along with are making fun of your friends over by the 4-square circle, far away from the hall where you have power. Do you:

a) Defend your friends to the bullies.
b) Go get your friends and let them defend themselves.
c) Ignore them, don't bother your friends about it, and let the moment pass without further incident.
d) Go and privately make someone in charge aware of the situation.
e) Tell them, "I'm a hall monitor; I'm going to go get the teacher and make you guys stop making fun of my friends."

I moderated this board back when it was hosted on the-spot.com, so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass here.

[Nieninque]

I moderated this board back when it was hosted on the-spot.com, so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass here.

It does...it just means you are more experienced at it.

[Gnomad]

It does...it just means you are more experienced at it.Nah, I learned that after years of debating at my peers at a prep school. Does wonders.

[Sean of the Thread]

Nah, I learned that after years of debating at my peers at a prep school. Does wonders.

Too bad you didn't learned grammar there as well.

[Kranar]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/misc/progress.gif I moderated this board back when it was hosted on the-spot.com, so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass here.


Except for the fact that it was never hosted on the-spot.com.