We're Creating the Ultimate Weapon

[Bigby]

Alright, me and three friends have amassed a gigantic amount of premie points, we are thinking about pooling it and creating the best weapon in the game. We have our ideas, but I was curious (since many of the veteran players hang out here) what your ideas on this weapon might be?

We've dug around and here is what we came up with.

Definition of Best Weapon: A weapon that has the greatest lethality with losing the least amount of defensive capability.

Current Best Weapon: I have been told is a +47 imflass mattock with claid like weighting.

Our Best Weapon: A +50 mattock with a little over 1.7x Claid like weighting or possibly a +50 Perfectly forged morningstar with little over 1.7x Claid like weighting. In theory the "Best" weapon would be twohanded or pole,due to the DF's but then you lose 150 DS due to no shield, so we scrapped that.
A mattock is probably the most ideal due to it always crushing, but a perfectly forged morningstar is also up there.

*Note this 1.7x was calculated by the amount of premie points we have, if someone can check our math and get the actual premie points required to raise a weapon to 10x (starting from 7x) and then raising to 1.7 or so claid weighting that would be helpful. We may have severly miscalculated these numbers.

Anyhow, please analyze and debate.

[StrayRogue]

You realize you can't add crit weighting, right? So the 1.7x or wtf ever claidh weighting would have to be already on the weapon.

[mgoddess]

I'd say the best weapon in the game depends on who uses it.

For my bard, a 10x Lance with the best crit weighting possible would be lovely... once she's able to use it, that is.

For my rogue, an self-ammo-making elemental bow would be killer.

For my warrior, a perfectly-forged, 10x rolaren handaxe/waraxe that's not able to be disarmed. Crit weighting would be a bonus for this one.

[Back]

0 RT self amo bows seem like the best weapon hands down. Add flares and aiming and it gets insane.

[StrayRogue]

Are there any 0 second rt bows left in the game now?

[Stanley Burrell]

For strict hack and slash w/ a shield: Find a razern slab and make a perfect star with it, 10x it and give it lightning flares.

[Daniel]

Enegue has the best weapon, period.

[StrayRogue]

Shame he's gone.

[Daniel]

Sorry, I don't really keep track of these things. I actually have a life.

[StrayRogue]

Yet you post on a gaming forum (and play the game it's based on) . Weird.

[TheEschaton]

I just saw Enegue today. He's still a mentor.

[Bigby]

I guess he was thinking about armor padding or possibly damage weighting. So with premie points the best weapon possible would be a 10x claidh... bummer.

Out of curiousty

0 RT self ammo bows exist?

What weapon did Enegue have that made it the best possible weapon?

And is there a cap on premie damage weighting?

[StrayRogue]

The sword that kills anything it hits, I believe, via spirit death. Or the one that drains spirit when it's waved. I forget.

[AestheticDeath]

you cannot get weighting at all, crit or damage

flares are the only offensive thing you can add to weapons beyond enchant

you have to find something thats already got as much weighting as possible and enchant that

good luck

OR, take one of the current ebows - any flavor, and enchant it to 10x base if you can

[Daniel]

I just saw Enegue today. He's still a mentor.


IN YOUR FACE STRAYROGUE

[Back]

I just saw Enegue today. He's still a mentor.

Damn, I have about 4 years of House dues to pay. :(

[Bigby]

OR, take one of the current ebows - any flavor, and enchant it to 10x base if you can

Why an Ebow? And how much premie points would I need to enchant an ebow up to 10x, I think ebow's are only flaring so I might be able to do it with the premie points I have personally. But again, why Ebow? Is this better then a 10x Claid in your opinion? Is it even possible to premie enchant an ebow?

And is there a sword that can steal spirit points when just waved how does this work? Good lord, I didn't know these insane weapons existed.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah the soul stealer blade does or did exist at some point. The ebow I guess would be for the quick RT, constant flares and high ET.

[Bigby]

Hm, my opinion a 10x Claid would probably be the best bet. At least better then a 10x ebow, what do you all think?

[StrayRogue]

10x Maul with claidh weighting. It's all moot anyway. One disarm/implode and it's poofed. Plus there's little difference when you have an AS 300 points over their DS and ambushing.

[AestheticDeath]

An ebow of some sort would have a quicker RT than any two handed weapon. Without an uber haste wizard taking 5 seconds off your RT, the bow would be at least twice as fast as a claidh or maul I think.

And assuming the weapons are in properly trained hands, the bow would be killing in one hit just as easy as any other weapon no matter the weighting it has.

Honestly a regular bow outweighs a claidh or claidh weighted maul in my opinion. Its only drawback is stone creatures, golems and such.

Plus the ebows are permablessed - so you can hunt alot of undead creatures that the crit weighted items wont ever touch. Unless you get the iorake claidh, or eonake/ora and use a cleric, or a paladin. Paladins can use sancted weapons too right? Dunno never played one. Bow wouldnt be strictly limited to a class type though.

Remember the guy who owns the +47 claidh weighted maul.. tossed it out and is now using ranged weapons. Gauntlet bow or self ammo crossbow.

And I know at least some of the ebows can be worked on. When Doppleganger was trying to sell his self ammo crossbow, he said he had a quote from Khaladon for around 7000 PPs to enchant it once from +37 to +42 or something like that. May have been 32 to 37.. anyways its pretty high, though most likely not much different from the costs of enchanting one of those claidh weighted mauls.

[Bigby]

10x Maul with claidh weighting. It's all moot anyway. One disarm/implode and it's poofed. Plus there's little difference when you have an AS 300 points over their DS and ambushing.

Holy crap you're right. And I've used my 1 time replacement thingie. Hum, are bows disarmable? I think they are but just wondering.

Damn, I wonder if some warrior/sorc duo can find the guy with that +47 claidh maul or whatever and poof his weapon,that would be a real bummer for him.

[Bigby]

And assuming the weapons are in properly trained hands, the bow would be killing in one hit just as easy as any other weapon no matter the weighting it has.



I assume this is hiding and aiming for an eye or something, not out in the open? Just checking, since I'm not a rogue.

[Khariz]

Couple things:

1. Mattocks don't just crush. (web documentation is wrong)

2. Maul is better than mattock, as Stray pointed out. So 10x maul with claid+ weighting is better. Mauls do just crush.

3. Implode doesn't take weapons that have been registered (unless something changed in the last few weeks I didn't know about.

[AestheticDeath]

Just an afterthought - but you basically wont be able to create the ultimate weapon. Anything you can do with premie points or merchants has been done already in some form or fashion. And GMs normally make the best weapons anyways.

You won't be able to do anything but improve on existing sub-par weapons.

You can make more unique or special items though. Like a 10x player forged weapon. It would not be the ultimate, but it would most likely be a first. When I thought about doing it, I scrapped the idea, because you spend more coins in premie points than you would ever be able to get back by selling the weapon.

[AestheticDeath]

I assume this is hiding and aiming for an eye or something, not out in the open? Just checking, since I'm not a rogue.
This is aiming for the eye, not hiding. You dont need to ambush with a bow.


Holy crap you're right. And I've used my 1 time replacement thingie. Hum, are bows disarmable? I think they are but just wondering.

Damn, I wonder if some warrior/sorc duo can find the guy with that +47 claidh maul or whatever and poof his weapon,that would be a real bummer for him.
I wouldnt recommend trying to destroy someones weapon, as it will only get you in trouble(banned) - and they will most likely get it replaced without using their one time replacement.

Bows are disarmable. The gauntlet/spirit bows are as well - but it wont be lost since it can just be reformed for mana. The wearable item is the actual item - not the bow it makes.

One of the spirit based gauntlet bows would be your best base item to start with in my opinion. Assuming they can be worked on. Just find 300m or more to start the offer from one of the 3 current owners who most likely wont sell. then spend somewhere around 10k PPs per enchant.

The wavedancer ebows are the only other logical choice to work on as the OLD ebows are already 10x, and the ranger based ones are 0x/5x so your looking at alot more enchants to get it somewhere.

I am not sure how the PPs would be assessed on those though. I wouldnt be surprised at one like mine being called 10x already, so your paying the highest cost each time to get it enchanted.

[Khariz]

Enchanting a claid to any enchant is a recockulous amount of points.

[Bigby]

This is aiming for the eye, not hiding. You dont need to ambush with a bow.


I wouldnt recommend trying to destroy someones weapon, as it will only get you in trouble(banned) - and they will most likely get it replaced without using their one time replacement.

Bows are disarmable. The gauntlet/spirit bows are as well - but it wont be lost since it can just be reformed for mana. The wearable item is the actual item - not the bow it makes.

One of the spirit based gauntlet bows would be your best base item to start with in my opinion. Assuming they can be worked on. Just find 300m or more to start the offer from one of the 3 current owners who most likely wont sell. then spend somewhere around 10k PPs per enchant.

The wavedancer ebows are the only other logical choice to work on as the OLD ebows are already 10x, and the ranger based ones are 0x/5x so your looking at alot more enchants to get it somewhere.

I am not sure how the PPs would be assessed on those though. I wouldnt be surprised at one like mine being called 10x already, so your paying the highest cost each time to get it enchanted.

Hm, how much do the old 10x ebows go for?

And spirit/gauntlet bows are what enchant?

I figure I can always dump some/all of my premie points into silvers and then see if any of the current owners want to sell. Either that or go for a 8x-9x claidh, I just did the numbers, and buy one of those self mana haste items. Wonder how much RT I can get down using a self mana haste rubbable, is this based on magic use skill or is it constant?

[StrayRogue]

Self-mana haste items are incredibly rare. I can think of two left in the game.

250 mil for oldstyle ebow. Less now maybe cause of the nerf.

I wouldn't pay more than 150 for the spirit glove.

[Akari]

Damn, I wonder if some warrior/sorc duo can find the guy with that +47 claidh maul or whatever and poof his weapon,that would be a real bummer for him.

what does the sorc need the warrior for? 709 (quake), stance neutral, 715 (itchy curse), when they start to scratch they will drop the weapon...
sorcerers can disarm and implode all by themselves... fear the sorcerer!

of course, imploding the weapon is just asking to be banned... but a sorcerer might want to try your weapon out for a few hunts if it's supposed to be the best weapon ever... let me know when ya get it done :)

[Asha]

When a sorc does that he needs to expect a world of shit from the GMs. I think JD did that and got bummed by them.
Shame really, I loved doing it Atreau.

[Bigby]

Hm, I've been thinking wouldn't a plain 10x Longbow with some 10x flaring arrows or something be better? Thats like +100 to AS, excuse my newbness I never touched a bow before. Yeah it's an extra 2 seconds due to load times, but I would think the extra +50 AS would make up for that. Come to think of it, a sighted 10x Longbow would probably be the best.

OR failing all that you get 3 or 4 10x crossbows with some 10x bolts and preload them before you go kill things.

[StrayRogue]

Arrows, if you could get 10x ones, do not flare on every shot. And it wouldn't be 10x. You'd get +50 AS.

[Michaelous]

can somoene explain how a weapon with extra crit weiting then a normal claidh would take effect, like if something has 50 points rather then 40 points of crit weiting, ive heard diffrent theories on how this works

[Bigby]

Why does flare matter, this is one shot one kill to the eye. And what exactly is the RT difference between normal bow and ebow/spirit gaunt, is it 2 seconds?

That and arrow enchant doesn't add to total AS? Hmm, wonder if you can make poisoned arrows or something, thinking of DR here. Heh.

So, what does everyone think about getting a very heavily sighted or greater to 10x longbow, think that would be even better then a ebow, no?

[Bigby]

Oh and one more question! :) How often does a fully trained 100th level char hit the eye with a aimed shot? And how often does it kill? , w/o any specials like weighting of course. Anyone give me %'s?

[AestheticDeath]

I honestly think it would be rediculous to go any further down this road. Its just about obvious you have NEVER played Gemstone. For you to try and make some sort of uber weapon at this time would be foolish.

How many points do you and your friends have saved up, from never playing? Or have you bought a ton of accounts loaded with points? And if so - where did you find said accounts, so I can shop there too.

[Asha]

Is there even a 10x bow in the lands which is not an ebow? And regarding the percentages you were looking for, a ranger or rogue could eventually kill in every shot but say 1 or 2 here and there. It can get pretty boring after a while.

[Khariz]

can somoene explain how a weapon with extra crit weiting then a normal claidh would take effect, like if something has 50 points rather then 40 points of crit weiting, ive heard diffrent theories on how this works

What do you mean how it takes affect? It takes affect the same way any weighting does these days. Randomly.

You swing, it has 1 in 50 chance of doing any one of those levels of crit weighting. Really makes me sad too. I miss doing the full 40 in every swing. It was so happily rediculous!

[Latrinsorm]

Honestly a regular bow outweighs a claidh or claidh weighted maul in my opinion.If you don't mind elaborating, why is it that you feel being unable to hunt undead is problematic while being at a severe disadvantage versus plate class armor isn't so much?
That and arrow enchant doesn't add to total AS?Arrow enchant and bow enchant both add to AS up to 50. Thus, a 6x bow and 4x arrows provide 50, a 7x bow and 7x arrows provide 50, a 10x bow and 0x arrows provide 50, and so on.

[AestheticDeath]

If you don't mind elaborating, why is it that you feel being unable to hunt undead is problematic while being at a severe disadvantage versus plate class armor isn't so much?

Find me something in plate that I would actually hunt...

I am sure the eyes are just as vulnerable anyhow.

In all my time playing gemstone I dont beleive I have ever hunted a creature that used plate. Scratch that... krolvin warfarers might have had half plate or some such nonsense back in GS3. I didnt use archery then. But whatever.

Either way whats more common, undead or creatures wearing plate class armor? I'd be very surprised if its plate armor.

[TheEschaton]

Janissaries wear plate in OTF, no?

[AestheticDeath]

If so, plate means nothing, cause those go down just as easy as anything else to archery.

The constructs are the only real problem there.

[Latrinsorm]

Find me something in plate that I would actually hunt...I'm not sure what level your character is or what sort of hunting tactics you use, so this is sort of a difficult question. I know at least one creature in the Bowels, the newfangled Teras temple, and OTF (each) has the mechanical equivalent of plate.
I am sure the eyes are just as vulnerable anyhow.They're significantly less vulnerable. A guaranteed kill versus hauberk for a longbow requires a 340 endroll; for full plate it becomes 603. Weighting is worth more for the lower armor groups, so that would make the gap even more severe.
Either way whats more common, undead or creatures wearing plate class armor? I'd be very surprised if its plate armor.I don't know which one's more common; I do know that just as it's very easy to avoid creatures wearing plate it's very easy to avoid undead creatures.

[AestheticDeath]

Unless your in Voln. And assuming there are a dozen or so creatures or less than that wearing plate.. its alot easier to avoid the plate than undead, whether your voln or not.

Beyond that - the teras temple has undead in it. Most likely one of the biggest reasons Tsin now uses his bows rather than the claidh weighted thing he has for sale.

As far as the endrolls on plate requiring a kill - is that with or without redux?

As far as my level, I have several archers ranging from 10-100 levels.

[Stanley Burrell]

If you're still feeling morning starry with a shield, you could get ahold of a massive 0x morning star (the kind with a full +30 incredible) and begin enchanting it to 10x and lighten it to ~0.4lbs to make for quicker eye ambushes.

I doubt you'd (or anyone for that matter) have enough PPs to do such. I haven't read the table on the price of an enchanting crit weighted weapons in a while, but it scales up quite a bit for each +5(%) divisor, IIRC.

Has anyone +47'd an ash black mattock?

[StrayRogue]

Why would lightening a weapon make it quicker?

[Stanley Burrell]

Because I've had non-encumbrance related RT downed after making a weapon 1/8th its original weight.

It's not exactly like I know the phantom base speed formulae offhand, but I feel really, really certain that it does.

[StrayRogue]

Yes but you make it sound like it's a decisive factor. You don't need to lighten a weapon. If you're unencumbered it doesn't matter if the weapon weighs 2 or 200.

Besides there are easier ways to lose RT, and more appropriate items to lighten.

[Stanley Burrell]

Yes but you make it sound like it's a decisive factor. You don't need to lighten a weapon. If you're unencumbered it doesn't matter if the weapon weighs 2 or 200.

Besides there are easier ways to lose RT, and more appropriate items to lighten.

I just remember switching off between a monir-hafted golvern star to one of those 17 lb. imflass morning stars with decent damage weighting from the first EG and having my RT go up +2 while being completely unencumbered both times.

And while encumbered, like you said, (and I don't know how much deeper the rabbit hole goes mechanically, if any exists) I've noticed when swinging two 4lb. brawling weapons of the same weapon base while TWC'ing with a +2 RT overall encumbrance hampering me (box-hunting) and then switching down to two identical weapon bases, except of different material and merchant lightened each to 0.5lb pushed my swinging RT from 6 back down to 4 [without any push-back in my total encumbrance.)]

I am really certain that it does. It might be a bug, I'm not sure.

[Stanley Burrell]

Besides there are easier ways to lose RT, and more appropriate items to lighten.

Well, yeah -- It sounded like the OP wanted a ridiculously PP-spent weapon like the Slayer staffs from Krull.

[StrayRogue]

I just remember switching off between a monir-hafted golvern star to one of those 17 lb. imflass morning stars with decent damage weighting from the first EG and having my RT go up +2 while being completely unencumbered both times.



It would have been a different weapon base then.

Other then that I never noticed any difference when weilding a 15 pound two-hander or my 5 pound greatsword.

[Bigby]

Ok, so we have come up with 4 choices. *Any mechanics advice would be helpful.

1st option: Buy an old ebow - 250 million silvers

-> Base RT 3 secs, flares everytime. Cost may be prohibitive, we'll have to dump almost all of our premie points.

2nd option: Buy the most crit sighted bow I can find, and premie enchant it to 6x. Then buy a bunch of cheap 4x flaring arrows. OR an even cheaper route would be to premie enchant to 3x a incredibly weighted bow -anyone know if one exists?- then have our in house wizard enchant a few arrows to 7x.

-> Extra 2 seconds of RT, base RT of 5. Extra weighting helps for a person not hiding. Really cost effective, I can probably do this myself and still have a lot of premie points leftover.

Non-Ranged user path:

3rd option: Buy a claidhmore and enchant to 10x.

-> No shield, but obviously with claidh DF and weighting. VERY expensive,perhaps not possible, even with our pps,if the simu site numbers are correct.

4th option:An interesting idea, Buy a perfectly forged razern awl-pike enchant to 10x and tack on lightning flares. Not extremely expensive and with the DF's of a perfectly forged awl-pike you can probably get similar results to a high enchant claidh, am I correct about this? I don't know. Plus, you get light crits every once in a while.

Ok, so there you have it. Personally, I haven't got into all this mech stuff and have been playing Gemstone just to hang with my good buds. So, yeah I may sound kinda newbish. But, my buds have invited me into this little project they have going so I want to sound a bit knowledgable. If anyone can provide some helpful mechanics advice, I would be very glad. :) Thanks.

[Tolwynn]

With option 3, save up some silvers and buy at least a 1x claidh for 3-4 mil, if not a higher enchant one. You'll save a ton of PP that way, for a comparatively smaller expenditure of silver.

With option 4, you can't flare a crit-weighted weapon, so that's pretty much out as written.

[Michaelous]

What do you mean how it takes affect? It takes affect the same way any weighting does these days. Randomly.

You swing, it has 1 in 50 chance of doing any one of those levels of crit weighting. Really makes me sad too. I miss doing the full 40 in every swing. It was so happily rediculous!


someone told me that first the normal claidh weiting is randomized, then the extra crit weiting is randomized and factored into the resulting crit. which would be much more effective and from using th claidh for so long sounds more accurate.

[StrayRogue]

Well how it works for damage weighting (and padding) is that it doesn't add the static, full amount. So it could be anywhere from 1-the highest amount granted by the padding/weighting. Which makes it suck.

[bubbauno]

I just briefly glanced over this thread but it seems like you are WAY out of your league here and have no idea what you are talking about..

First off old style ebows go for 300m+.. I've offered 400m to Speaker for his fire long bow and he has turned me down several times. With the pattern of high level hunting areas being disarm/steal/implode I feel that my gauntlet long bow is far superior just because it can't be lost.

Second, the most weighted bows are the race bows with exceptional sighting and they only work for specific races such as sylvans. Plus they aren't self ammo so there is no way they could ever be the best.

Third, getting a claid to 10x is nearly impossible. You can only enchant claids by +2 at a time, so if you had a 4x old style claid for instance it would be 9200 points just to go from +10 to +12.. So in other words if you wanted to enchant a 4x claid to 10x you would have to enchant it 30 times at about 10k-12k points a pop which would be over 300-350 THOUSAND premie points.

Mattocks can be enchanted by +5 at a time which is why I even bothered in the first place. I spent about 250 million to enchant my claid weighted mattock from 4x up to 9.5x and I can guarantee there is no way you could ever make a better weapon for less than that.

[Khariz]

someone told me that first the normal claidh weiting is randomized, then the extra crit weiting is randomized and factored into the resulting crit. which would be much more effective and from using th claidh for so long sounds more accurate.

I'll admit that I don't literally know the answer to this. The method you described doesn't really make sense to me though.

"Extra Weighting" tends to mean "More weighting than a claidhmore is naturally supposed to have". So if a Normal Claid is supposed to have 40 points of weighting, and yours has 50, the only difference is that you have a chance of getting 40-50 points hits where as normal claid users do not.

If indeed extra weighting is a seperate category of weighting (if weapons had two slots that weighting could be put here and weighting put there) then I suppose the weighting could be calculated independantly. I don't think that's how it works though.

Just like weapons don't both have weighting and flares, I don't think a weapon would have two different kinds of weighting. Pretty sure "extra weighting" just means some GM modified something to have more than it naturally should.

[Bigby]

I just briefly glanced over this thread but it seems like you are WAY out of your league here and have no idea what you are talking about..

First off old style ebows go for 300m+.. I've offered 400m to Speaker for his fire long bow and he has turned me down several times. With the pattern of high level hunting areas being disarm/steal/implode I feel that my gauntlet long bow is far superior just because it can't be lost.

Second, the most weighted bows are the race bows with exceptional sighting and they only work for specific races such as sylvans. Plus they aren't self ammo so there is no way they could ever be the best.

Third, getting a claid to 10x is nearly impossible. You can only enchant claids by +2 at a time, so if you had a 4x old style claid for instance it would be 9200 points just to go from +10 to +12.. So in other words if you wanted to enchant a 4x claid to 10x you would have to enchant it 30 times at about 10k-12k points a pop which would be over 300-350 THOUSAND premie points.

Mattocks can be enchanted by +5 at a time which is why I even bothered in the first place. I spent about 250 million to enchant my claid weighted mattock from 4x up to 9.5x and I can guarantee there is no way you could ever make a better weapon for less than that.

So you're the guy with the mattock, btw is mattock maul based? Anyhow, I haven't hunted in the ultra high level areas as of yet, but I'm fully bonded to my weapon, and whenever I get disarmed that thing jedi force powers back to my hand. You should bond to it dude.

[StrayRogue]

Sorree, retards can't bond :(

[Latrinsorm]

is that with or without redux?Without, as I only know of one creature with redux.
Unless your in Voln.Pfft, nobody's actually in Voln anymore, are they?
its alot easier to avoid the plate than undeadAgain, I don't know which is more common, but both are completely avoidable for the majority of any character's career. Things get tougher at the cap, but as I noted earlier, there are plate-wearers in at least two of the three cap hunting areas.
As far as my level, I have several archers ranging from 10-100 levels.Reivers spring to mind in the mid 20s, krynches a little later, crystal golems at 12 (though now that I say that they may be in hauberk), shan in the early 40s, various stone things all along the way. Krynches and reivers are a little out of the way, but I'd certainly say they're all worthwhile to hunt.
I am really certain that it does.Weapon weight is much more important for offhand than forehand.

Razern is utterly worthless. You're much better off with a maul than an awl-pike because you can't get a guaranteed crit kill with an awl-pike no matter how fancy you make it, not to mention that you'll have a heck of a time ambushing in 6 seconds with it.

[Stanley Burrell]

Weapon weight is much more important for offhand than forehand.

Cool, O.K. -- Would you know if there's any phantom roll for general encumbrance + weapon in forehand?


Razern is utterly worthless.

HERESY!

Razern slab > Eonake slab.

[Michaelous]

I'll admit that I don't literally know the answer to this. The method you described doesn't really make sense to me though.

"Extra Weighting" tends to mean "More weighting than a claidhmore is naturally supposed to have". So if a Normal Claid is supposed to have 40 points of weighting, and yours has 50, the only difference is that you have a chance of getting 40-50 points hits where as normal claid users do not.

If indeed extra weighting is a seperate category of weighting (if weapons had two slots that weighting could be put here and weighting put there) then I suppose the weighting could be calculated independantly. I don't think that's how it works though.

Just like weapons don't both have weighting and flares, I don't think a weapon would have two different kinds of weighting. Pretty sure "extra weighting" just means some GM modified something to have more than it naturally should.


lets say i swing my claidhimore and the randomized crit rank is a level 20 out of the normal 40, then the additional 10 points of crit weiting is randomized and lets say it's rank is a 10 out of 10. then the result of the crit rank on the critter would be 30 rather then 20.

another example i swing my claidh and the crit rank is a 35. the the additional crit weighting is factored in and lets say it randoms a 10 then the result is suppose to be 45 im gonna assume the game is coded for 40 crit ranks being the max. being that 40 is the highest crit weighting in the lands, besides the additional crit weighted items. so the extra crit weighting doesnt mean it magically does higher crit damage, just does the highest crit damage more often. This thoery seems much more logical and i belive its true due to the resluts of the hits of this claidh. if anyone knows a way to test this im all ears

[Celephais]

That's not how it works at all Michaelous...

40 points of crit weighting adds a random 1(0?)-20 points of phantom damage to determining crit rank. Crit ranks are 0-9, and the rank is determined by taking the damage done, plus the phantom damage, divided by the crit divisor, you're not even done then, that's the maximum crit rank, that divided in half (not sure on rounding) is the minimum crit rank, again it's randomized and the crit rank is determined (this rank then has a set amount of damage that's added on to the non-phantom damage to result in the "... xx points of damage taken".

I could be wrong on where the randomization takes place (if the phantom damage is 1-20 or that's just seen as "random" due to the later randomizing from max rank to min rank).

[Sean]

Why would you buy an old style Ebow? Aren't they 10x bows with 0x arrows as it stands?

[Latrinsorm]

Cool, O.K. -- Would you know if there's any phantom roll for general encumbrance + weapon in forehand?I've never heard of one; that does not in any way indicate that one does not exist. That said, it should be fairly easy to test with a giantkin warrior and one of those 100 pound clubs from the warrior guild.
that divided in half (not sure on rounding) is the minimum crit rankRounded up.

Crit weighting is almost impossible to back out due to natural crit weighting and natural crit padding. If someone is really serious about doing it, go out and get a few hundred (at the very very least) hits against something with the following characteristic: just barely hit it enough so that you do a crit, but not a heck of a lot more. Superweighted claidhmores would be good for this kind of thing, but really anything with more than twice the crit divisor of whatever you're hitting will be fine.

[Celephais]

Rounded up.

Any info on the randomization (weighting phantom damage randomization vs determining crit randomization)? I know the crit max/min is found and then randomized, but does the weighting inself get rounded too?

Pretty sure I recall hearing it did, but this would also be very difficult to determine... you need to determine the non-crit weighted randomization curve (hopefully linear), and then use a crit weighted weapon and derive out the non-weighted randomization (easy if both linear and you see an exponetial curve).

Yeah... sounds like a bitch.

[Latrinsorm]

I actually hadn't considered your sort of method. Crit rank randomization itself is linear, and if the weighting isn't randomized, it should still be linear. It certainly seems possible to take a given preweighting crit rank and see what the results are, but the big stumbling block would be natural crit weighting. It's worth a try, anyway, mainly because it's the same method of gathering data: hit something hundreds of times without hitting it hard enough to generate a rank 9 naturally, preferably having a low DEX bonus. It would take a lot of good hits to draw legitimate conclusions, but it's certainly a viable testing method.

I'm hoping a GM takes pity and just announces it again like the crit padding vs. maneuvers one, though.

[Warriorbird]

Bigby = Warclaidhm?

[Fallen]

Just wanted to point out that if you register a weapon you dont have to worry about a (players) sorcerer voiding your weapon. It will not be sucked in if it is on the ground and someone implodes.

However, if you are disarmed and the creature that picks it up is vaporized in whatever manner, I believe the weapon will be lost. Also, if you are cursed, then are subsequently Voided by a creature (Think Vaespillion), I am fairly sure you will lose the weapon, though I could be mistaken on that.

[Bigby]

Just doesn't make sense to carry around an ultra expensive weapon. Anyone know if bonding prevents weapons from being voided?

[StrayRogue]

Bonding is not 100% safe no.

[Fallen]

It DOES help a lot, though. If you are disarmed through means other than a curse? the weapon returns to you even if in a monter's hand.

Ithzir pose a problem with this, though, as they can go to their other realm when phased, then die if injured. Also, in the Ruined Temple and the Rift, voids are a problem.

However, a bonded registered weapon is about as safe as you can get (besides something odd like the energy bow)

[Bigby]

It DOES help a lot, though. If you are disarmed through means other than a curse? the weapon returns to you even if in a monter's hand.

Ithzir pose a problem with this, though, as they can go to their other realm when phased, then die if injured. Also, in the Ruined Temple and the Rift, voids are a problem.

However, a bonded registered weapon is about as safe as you can get (besides something odd like the energy bow)

Too bad bonds are only for warriors. And most squares are rogues. Those energy bows are a bit overrated in my opinion. I'd just use a heavily sighted bow with some decent arrows. The extra seconds of RT ,actually 1 sec of extra RT with haste, isn't so much of a big deal imho. God mode is unsustainable so thats moot. BUT, the 0% chance of not losing the item is cool.

[StrayRogue]

Decent arrows do not exist.

Plus there is no safe bet at the higher levels for using a decent weapon. You're asking for trouble using anything over 4x.

[Celephais]

Bigby it's clear you don't understand a lot of mechanics, no offense, so this endeavour of yours is pretty far-fetched. For starters a regular bow can have the same RT as an elemental bow, there is no RT for loading the arrow w/ regular bows (only crossbows)... so w/ a good enough STR you've got a 3 sec RT, w/ haste it's 1 sec.

As for your comment about enchanting arrows... certainly not worth it as I take it you don't know the effort required to enchant to 7x nor were you likely aware that 5x flaring arrows can be had dirt cheap, so even w/ a 3x bow it's not worth the monumental cost of the extra +10 AS (that and the risk of losing/breaking an arrow).

You also seem to be missing out on the nature of GS's non-attrition based combat. Things die in one hit all the time, in the case of most capped rogues they can do it with a non-crit weighted weapon just as well as a claid weighted one. Crittable creatures that is... and if it's a non-crittable creature, well that crit weighting isn't the end-all-be-all is it? (non-crit creatures still suffer crit damage in my experience... aim for the chest or back for some extra blood damage)

As for the ultimate weapon... depending on your point of view, it's either rapid fire, or implosion, dispel, implosion.

[Bigby]

Like I said, I play for RP mostly and hunting if and only when my friends go do it. So I'm not a super mech guy like that Latrinsorm guy who seems to know just about everything.

I'am fully aware of rogues hiding/ambushing craziness, I've seen rogues crit things to death with a off the shelf ora dagger.The weapon we're trying to make is really for historical GS value more then anything else.
Kinda like a, "HA! this abomination of a weapon exists, and you can't do anything about it!!"

Liken to that one fella from WAY back, he was leader of house twilight for a very long time. He used a Simu banned item that let him "enter into the void" when he left the game...which was pretty snazzy way of leaving. I think one of my buds are trying for something similar.

Anyhow thanks for the info though.

[Fallen]

Here is a thought for a cheap, yet pretty decent weapon via premium points.

Buy a perfect forged awl pike. Have it mage enchanted to 7x. Then, have it enchanted to 10x, then have void flares added to it.

A 10x awl pike that has DF's higher than a lance, and an AvD that adds even more to your swing. Then, either keep it as is for a blessable, or have flares added to it via premium points. If you really want to get creative, get EZ-scripts for it and make up your own fluff scripts.

It isn't sorrow, but I would call it high end.

[StrayRogue]

Couldn't be blessable.

[Fallen]

With the EZ-scripts, you mean? I thought premium enchants were kept blessable.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, but you can't keep something blessable that:

A) Has flares
or
B) is mage enchanted.

[Celephais]

... Mage enchantable is now blessable, they changed it.

[StrayRogue]

Not if you add flares. Which is irrelevent because you can't add void flares via PP's anyway.

[Celephais]

Not if you add flares. Which is irrelevent because you can't add void flares via PP's anyway.

The void part was wrong... but he said "leave it blessable or add flares" which was perfectly correct.

I just wanted to clarify that mage enchantable does not equal non-blessable, so "b" is wrong. ... that and no one suggested "a".

[StrayRogue]

Well aren't you a smart fuck.

[Celephais]

Well aren't you a smart fuck.

Uhh... yeah, pretty much everything I've posted on these forums has been pointing out the flaws of others, usually in more of a jerk manner than this.

Anyway even if I wasn't trying to be a jerk (but I was), apparently stopping mis-conceptions is wrong.

[Rathgar]

Hey man ive been reading through this thread. And some points I'll like to make. I don't recall the exact formulae off the top of my head but the best weapon for critting in the game if you don't care about weap type is gonna be a 10x perfectly forged awl-pike and not a claid

Me and a friend did this a couple of years back. But I think even a 10x claid on average falls shy by 2 or 3 points to a perfectly forged 10x awl-pike non crit weighted. We assumed the claidh had 40 points of phantom damage but we factored into the equation as it being 20 to get average because weighting is now randomized 1-40. Anyhow I don't remember all the details off the top of my head but we were pretty sure that the 10x perfect awl-pike won out.

*Just a caveat, don't take any of this as proof. And if someone else with the formulae can check that'd be great too.

[Drew]

Just got back in town so a Latrinsorm like splinter quote for everyone



Definition of Best Weapon: A weapon that has the greatest lethality with losing the least amount of defensive capability.

If you want the best weapon convince them to bring Jesh back. Enegue has the most lethal weapon now, sure, but it hasn't been used for several years at all and in the last 10 years has been swung maybe 5 times? Twin blade rules.



1. Mattocks don't just crush. (web documentation is wrong)



Log plz.




In all my time playing gemstone I dont beleive I have ever hunted a creature that used plate.

If you hunt stronghold you fight plate critters. Mastiffs and giants. Illoke are in hauberk. Arch wights. Shan. Certainly if you enjoy a challenge you'll end up fighting plate creatures.



Mattocks can be enchanted by +5 at a time which is why I even bothered in the first place. I spent about 250 million to enchant my claid weighted mattock from 4x up to 9.5x and I can guarantee there is no way you could ever make a better weapon for less than that.

Tsin is right here, I'd love to own that weapon and it's probably the best crit weighted weapon around these days but nice weapons are annoying in that they can't be used as much as you'd like in the end game. I doubt Tsin (or anyone else) could ever make there money back on something like this.

[Bigby]

I just ran through the numbers into this formula.

Crit divisor depends on the armor: skin/leather/scale/chain/plate is 3/5/7/9/11

Raw damage is (endroll - 100) * damage factor + 0.5, truncated

Raw damage / crit divisor = crit rank

[(calculated crit rank + 1) / 2, calculated crit rank], truncated

Rank 9 to kill.

Crit weighting is randomized. So a claidh with 40 pts of crit weighting will actually do 1-40 pts of random damage. For the purposes of calculation I put the average amount of crit weighting applied, so 20.

Against Scale mail

For a Claidhmore I got 187 end roll to reach the min threshold for a rank 9 crit.

For a perfectly forged awl-pike I got 196 , although actually 201 but I subtracted the difference between the 2 AvDs in favor of the awl since it's got +5 better AvD.

Ok SO, this means that a +50 perfectly forged awl-pike is the crit hitting equivalent to a +41 Claidhmore!

Please tell me what I did wrong here because I did this twice and got the same results, and the results just don't make sense.

[Sean of the Thread]

Seriously just curious.. how long have you played?

[Rathgar]

Actually, he's not that off. Thats similar to what I got with my friend when we were calculating it out. You need to realize though OP, that these equations could be TOTALLY off and in reality it's just plain different. Only field testing is the true guide.

[Rathgar]

Oh and remember that perf awlpike is blessable the claidh is not. And the claidh does way too much slashing, awl is punct/crush and tends to do more punct in my opinion. Punct to the eye...think about it.


Not to mention you can choose to crit weight/flare it later if you want. Also did I mention it'll take a bajillion less pps to make this.

[Grimblade]

Are 10x enchants through Premium Points still available? I know Simu's documentation on their website is often misleading, old, or outwright wrong, but according to their Premium point system info:


Add +5 to Any One Armor, Shield or Weapon

Description: This benefit, if selected, will allow you to add a +5 bonus to an armor, shield or weapon.

Some items which are particularly powerful will not be eligible for this enhancement. Any weapon which is enchanted to more than +30 will be made resistant to magic, and will be unable to be enchanted further.

http://www.play.net/gs4/premium/premiumplus.asp#bonus

[Celephais]

Are 10x enchants through Premium Points still available? I know Simu's documentation on their website is often misleading, old, or outwright wrong, but according to their Premium point system info:

it should read:

Add +5 to Any One Armor, Shield or Weapon

Description: This benefit, if selected, will allow you to add a +5 bonus to an armor, shield or weapon.

Some items which are particularly powerful will not be eligible for this enhancement. Any weapon which is enchanted to more than +30 will be made resistant to magic, and will be unable to be enchanted further by player characters through 925.

[Grimblade]

:thanx:

That actually makes more sense. This is why I like the PC better for any info regarding Gemstone!

[Latrinsorm]

Punct to the eye...think about it.Aiming a base 9 weapon for the eye takes pretty severe training. The only guy I know who even attempted it was Menos with a lance, and he had (emphasis on past tense, pallies ftl!!!) the benefits of CMAN Weapon Bonding and being capped.

Bigby and I had a u2u conversation: the basic theme of his analysis is correct versus scale. It's very different versus (for instance) plate.
You need to realize though OP, that these equations could be TOTALLY off and in reality it's just plain different.They could be, but they aren't.
Only field testing is the true guide.The problem with this is people take two or three hits as evidence when in reality hundreds of hits are required to get a good picture from field testing (at least the sort of field testing that uses no formulaic analysis).

[Stanley Burrell]

pallies ftl!!!

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/spelllist.asp?circle=13

[senorgordoburro]

I think you shoud get one of those old fish spine swords and nchant that up, just because it would be one of the coolest weapons.

[Necromancer]

I agree with that assessment. Find a short sword base fish spine, enchant it up to 10x. Add enhancements (are you allowed to do that to weapons? Add +5 to edged weapons skill- not ranks) and some custom scripts.

Then charge a crap ton

[Jayvn]

why not just reroll into a pure and spend your PP's on crazy ass enhancives

[AestheticDeath]

It'd be ridiculous, if only because there are other weapons already with exceptional weighting or better, and already a higher enchant. And a base metal giving it better STR/DU. But still would cost too much.

You would be stuck with a weapon like Tsins mattock, so overpriced you could never resell it unless you took a huge loss.

[Stealth]

I agree with that assessment. Find a short sword base fish spine, enchant it up to 10x. Add enhancements (are you allowed to do that to weapons? Add +5 to edged weapons skill- not ranks) and some custom scripts.

Then charge a crap ton

There never was a "fish spine sword" with crit weighting that was not broadsword based (unless someone altered something into one).

The short swords (with exceptional crit weighting) were long knives. The best one I know of was one I enchanted on the Juggernaut to 5X. I sold it to Wyxer after I converted to two-handers and he sold it to Tsin, who then sold it to Boomsplat...I have no idea who has it now.

There is a masterfully weighted shortsword based weapon out there somewhere but that is the best one I have seen.

FWIW, despite claims to the contrary, I have never seen a "claidh-weighted" one handed weapon in a player's (non-GM PC) hands. All of them are on the very lowest end of "incredible" weighting. This includes the black executioner's sword and the golvern bastard axe (both of which I owned or used for a while). Of those two, prefered the axe, but that was before the change to bastard swords, so I think it might hit better now than the axe...albeit slower in one handed mode.


Stealth

[Asha]

FWIW, despite claims to the contrary, I have never seen a "claidh-weighted" one handed weapon in a player's (non-GM PC) hands.

Stealth

I probably just missed something here or got the wrong end of some stick, but didn't Drew have a claid-weighted OHE?
The OHE that made other OHE's wet their beds?

[Stunseed]

Drew does have that weapon.

I also helped him test said weapon, where unless Stealth can come up with some number, showed that it was right up there with a claid's weighting.

[TheEschaton]

Maybe Stealth is saying Drew is a GM's PC.

OMG, CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11one

-TheE-

[Stealth]

Which weapon is this and what character?

[Celephais]

Which weapon is this and what character?

WATCH OUT!!!
INCOMING
http://www.firetoys.co.uk/juggling/pocket_nerf_howler.jpg

:P

[Drew]

Yeah, I generally only talk about my items with friends because I'm always anxious about drawing the nerf stick. I wonder which Drew Ash and Stunseed were referring to...

[Sypher]

Couldn't GMs just look up weapons in the game currently.

Command prompt> Find Incredible crit <weapon type>

<list of weapons>

[Asha]

Sell it to Tsin quick

[Celephais]

Couldn't GMs just look up weapons in the game currently.

Command prompt> Find Incredible crit <weapon type>

<list of weapons>

From the way GMs seem to operate, the tools available to them seem very very limited. Like the enchanting potion changes... they couldn't just blanket fix every potion, you had to put a potion down and "get" it in order for the potion to update.

Clearly they don't have access to some well thought out/designed database.

[GSJuergen]

8x bastard axe heavy crit weighting

PP to 9x 6500
PP to 10x 7000
Total: 13,500 PP's

and you get a 10x heavy crit weighted waraxe for your rogue, and a 10x heavy crit weighted greataxe for your warrior

[Cademus]

Why not a 10x claid weighted maul?

[Drew]

Why not a 10x claid weighted maul?


There isn't a claid weighted maul to enchant up.

[Khariz]

There isn't a claid weighted maul to enchant up.

Yes there is. It's currenlty -5 enchant though.

[radamanthys]

^that'd be a sick weapon t 10x ... and not like the common cold sick but full blown AIDS, topped with Cancer, lightly seared on a bed of Leprosy

[Cademus]

A 10x perfect awl will be similar in getting low endroll crit ranks. And 10x maul exists, Tsin has it, and it's frankly not worth the money.

[AestheticDeath]

again its not a maul its a mattack

[Paradii]

while we are on the subject of not talking about mauls, has there been any maul glyphs released for forging? Or is that something that will not be happening.

[Khariz]

while we are on the subject of not talking about mauls, has there been any maul glyphs released for forging? Or is that something that will not be happening.

There has not been, and the only answer I've ever seen is "maybe at some point in the future.

But yeah, the -5 claid weighted maul on the market is really a maul. It ain't a mattock.

Tsin's is most definately a mattock though.

[oldanforgotten]

A quick correction here regarding Enegue?s sword. The legend of the thing seems to grow with time. It is not a one hit insta-kill always. The sword must be set, or activated first. Then , if the sword inflicts a hit that draws a single blood or more, the target dies. The use of the item in that capacity also causes a vast amount of pain for the user, which can be anything up to a spirit death.

The best actual ?weapons? I?ve seen were Jesh?s walking stick, Rasulis?s 10x old style claidhmore, and the original 6x air flaring sword, which did not backfire that I know of, and flared every few swings with a feras like crit, whether the thing hit the target or not, resulting in a lot of EZmode defensive stance hunting.
________
Honda vt125c (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_VT125C)

[Drew]

Yes there is. It's currenlty -5 enchant though.



Well it's named a mattock, you're saying it's actually maul class though?

[G Dubz]

I hear there's rumors on the internets that you boys are building an ultimate weapon.. well let it be known that fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me ... you can't get fooled again.

If this ultimate weapon threatens the peace between human beings and fish.. we're gonna have some words.

[Khariz]

Well it's named a mattock, you're saying it's actually maul class though?

It's not named a mattock. It's named a maul.

[Khariz]

Here's the item from when it was in the shop:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:zz0R9MKnbCIJ:playershops.com/item_detail.pl%3Fitem%3Da%2520massive%2520ironwood %2520maul%2520with%2520a%2520rolaren%2520coil-wrapped%2520haft+maul+site:playershops.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us

It's claid weighted.

[Stretch]

This is a ridiculous thread.

There is no such thing as a "best weapon" that can be used by a PC. It's 100% dependent on circumstance.

I would take a self-mana Haste weapon over anything else, if I was purely going for functionality. Why? 1-2 second kills.

Claidh weighted mattock? Minimum five seconds to swing sans Haste, even if you can kill on the first shot.

[Drew]

Here's the item from when it was in the shop:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:zz0R9MKnbCIJ:playershops.com/item_detail.pl%3Fitem%3Da%2520massive%2520ironwood %2520maul%2520with%2520a%2520rolaren%2520coil-wrapped%2520haft+maul+site:playershops.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us

It's claid weighted.



Oh dur, I don't know why I was remembering that one as a mattock. So, yes it could be done. That's a pretty deep hole to start in though, I can't imagine the PPs that would take.

[Paradii]

I hear there's rumors on the internets that you boys are building an ultimate weapon.. well let it be known that fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me ... you can't get fooled again.

If this ultimate weapon threatens the peace between human beings and fish.. we're gonna have some words.

Made me laugh.

[Asha]

Made me laugh.

Easily amused.

[Sean of the Thread]

Tee hee.

[senorgordoburro]

How many premie points would it require to take a fish spine sword from 0-10x?

[G Dubz]

The enemies of the fish and human peace are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we..

I feel there may be a need to emptively strike on this so called "fish spine" sword. Do not misunderestimated me on this threat.

[Drew]

Since this thread is just risen from the dead randomly, here's a random picture:

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/756/bearcavjpggc7.png

[Sean of the Thread]

That's retarded.