Children & Successful Marriage

[Atlanteax]

The Pew Research Center survey on marriage and parenting found that children had fallen to eighth out of nine on a list of factors that people associate with successful marriages — well behind "sharing household chores," "good housing," "adequate income," a "happy se.xual relationship" and "faithfulness." In a 1990 World Values Survey, children ranked third in importance among the same items, with 65% saying children were very important to a good marriage, but just 41% said so in the new Pew survey. Chore-sharing was cited as very important by 62%, up from 47% in 1990. The survey of some 2,020 adults also found that, by a margin of nearly 3-to-1, Americans say the main purpose of marriage is the "mutual happiness and fulfillment" of adults rather than the "bearing and raising of children.".

I thought I'd share this snippet.

I'd say that this is entirely reasonable considering the change in marriage culture with the rise in divorces since 1990. Far more emphasis is being placed on individuals learning to co-exist with each other, and finding the "right" partner, as opposed to "grinding out" long and listless marriages.

In a way, I'd say the importance of children in a marriage dropping like that would be a good thing... as if the parents are able to stay together in a happy manner, the offspring of such marriages would far more likely benefit from growing up in a "nuclear family" (mom & dad & 2 kids).

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Comments?

[Celephais]

There was some guy on the colbert show who wrote a book about happiness and its unpredictability or some shit, I dunno I wasn't paying attention.

Anyway he said that generally people with kids are a lot less happy than people with kids (although people with kids experience "happiness" because of their kids, more often than not their kids make them less happy, indirectly or directly).

I don't know why we have to pop out of the womb half-retarded... it's probably so we have some humility when dealing with the people who don't develop the moronicy away, because well at one point we were screaming idiots too.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I'd say that this is entirely reasonable considering the change in marriage culture with the rise in divorces since 1990.>>

You mean the fall in divorces since 1990?

[grapedog]

<<I'd say that this is entirely reasonable considering the change in marriage culture with the rise in divorces since 1990.>>

You mean the fall in divorces since 1990?

is there a stat for % of marriages to % of divorces...I know a lot more people living together without getting married now than I did 10 years ago. Though I'm older as well...but it bears looking at. I been living in sin with my girlfriend now for 8 years almost. No children, no marriage plans...just relaxing and enjoying life.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<is there a stat for % of marriages to % of divorces>>

Yes, and I think it has stayed relatively static as a ratio, but it's also cited as being a useless figure because it doesn't factor in couples getting married, divorced, then remarried, etc. It just says "this many marriages happened" and "this many divorces happened." It's the source of the "50% of marriages fail" statistic which is incredible at best.

[Gan]

My wife and I waited 9 years before having children. We're going on 14 years this year. And I'd say that the first 9 years were pretty 'easy' in that the only challenge was learning how to live together, dream together, and work towards our mutual and exclusive goals together.

Were we 'happier' before children? Define happier. We slept late (happiness), had our own schedule (happiness), travelled on a whim (happiness), could focus extra efforts to school or job which included periods of long days/late nights at work/school (not really happiness but convenient), and we had very little in expenses so our combined salaries went further (happine$$).

With children, you have added responsibility, a less flexible schedule, more expenses, less time for personal endeavors (work/school), less spontaneous travel, and wont enjoy sleeping late until our son is in his teenage years.

HOWEVER, there is no other experience comparable to the joy having and raising a child. Its on a completely different plane than just being 'happy'.

[Celephais]

HOWEVER, there is no other experience comparable to the joy having and raising a child. Its on a completely different plane than just being 'happy'.

And the guy said exactly that, but he said your overall sum of happiness will be lower, you'll have the high highs their because of a kid, and you will not want to take back the decision, but odds are your quality/satisfaction of life come the day you get buried in the ground will be lower. This is impossible to prove, but just what the guy was saying.

[Gan]

For all intents and purposes measuring happiness is the same as economists measuring utility. Its an intangible only given evidence by repetitive behaviors being observed.

For some people, raising children should not be on the list of things to do. They just dont have the temerity, intelligence, TIME, fortitude, or strength to do it and have fun at the same time. Raising a child is not like watching a movie or enjoying a hobby that you take a break from when you get tired. ITS DAMN HARD WORK. And ultimately you get out of it what you put into it.

Thats probably the primary reason why having children is tied to having sex. Otherwise, many people would have less children if they knew in advance how much it would affect/change their lives and decided to skip that line.

[Celephais]

For all intents and purposes measuring happiness is the same as economists measuring utility. Its an intangible only given evidence by repetitive behaviors being observed.

For some people, raising children should not be on the list of things to do. They just dont have the temerity, intelligence, TIME, fortitude, or strength to do it and have fun at the same time. Raising a child is not like watching a movie or enjoying a hobby that you take a break from when you get tired. ITS DAMN HARD WORK. And ultimately you get out of it what you put into it.

Thats probably the primary reason why having children is tied to having sex. Otherwise, many people would have less children if they knew in advance how much it would affect/change their lives and decided to skip that line.

You using the same word-a-day calendar as TheE? Temerity isn't a "Good" quality, it's like fool-hardy.

I agree w/ you that measuring happiness is a stupid thing to even attempt to do, like measuring any emotion. I'm just saying what some dude said... and he was on the colbert report so he automatically gets bonus points.

Anyway I've seen some very happy parents, and some very unhappy parents, and I've noticed it's hugely correlated with their intelligence/sense of resposibility. Responsible intelligent parents = Happy parents = Happy family. Pretty simple. :medieval:

[Bobmuhthol]

Plenty of responsible, intelligent people get divorced because they're unhappy. I don't know how you can possibly claim that intelligent people make better family members.

[Gan]

temerity

One entry found for temerity. Main Entry: te&#183;mer&#183;i&#183;ty http://www.webster.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?temeri01.wav=temerity'))
Pronunciation: t&-'mer-&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English temeryte, from Latin temeritas, from temere blindly, recklessly; akin to Old High German demar darkness, Latin tenebrae, Sanskrit tamas
1 : unreasonable or foolhardy contempt of danger or opposition : RASHNESS (http://www.webster.com/dictionary/rashness), RECKLESSNESS (http://www.webster.com/dictionary/recklessness)
2 : an act or instance of temerity

I think its very appropriate considering what I was describing with it. ;)

[Celephais]

Plenty of responsible, intelligent people get divorced because they're unhappy. I don't know how you can possibly claim that intelligent people make better family members.

I didn't say anything about divorces, I said that generally unintelligent, unresponsible people do not get the most of the happiness that Gan was refering to that comes from raising children. It has to do with being able to derive happiness from something complex, a sense of pride, and a sense of investment. If you're the type of person who has pretty much "fried" your happiness on beer and a football game, then yeah, odds are you're not getting all you can out of childbearing and overall having children has reduced your happiness.

Also, do you understand what correlated means? If you did, you wouldn't have posted what you did.

[Celephais]

I think its very appropriate considering what I was describing with it. ;)

Touche...

But plenty of reasonable people get divorces!!!

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I didn't say anything about divorces>>

Okay, I guess I'm supposed to read a post about parents, family, and happiness and just assume that marriage, and therefore divorce, are irrelevant. Fuck me, I'm retarded.

<<I said that generally unintelligent, unresponsible people do not get the most of the happiness that Gan was refering to that comes from raising children.>>

What a stupid fucking claim. Holy shit.

<<It has to do with being able to derive happiness from something complex, a sense of pride, and a sense of investment. If you're the type of person who has pretty much "fried" your happiness on beer and a football game, then yeah, odds are you're not getting all you can out of childbearing and overall having children has reduced your happiness.>>

Not going to respond with anything of merit, because again, this is fucking retarded in context.

<<Also, do you understand what correlated means? If you did, you wouldn't have posted what you did.>>


Responsible intelligent parents = Happy parents = Happy family. Pretty simple.

Let me come up with a totally valid response:

I don't know how you can possibly claim that intelligent people make better family members.

[Celephais]

Okay, I guess I'm supposed to read a post about parents, family, and happiness and just assume that marriage, and therefore divorce, are irrelevant. Fuck me, I'm retarded.

The thread is about parents family and happiness, I just happened to be replying to a single aspect of that.


I don't know how you can possibly claim that intelligent people make better family members.

I never claimed they make better family members. That little equation was meant as a simplification of my point, but the equals aren't so much equals as they're "more likely to equal".

Anyway stop taking my post in such an absolutist manner, obviously I don't think intelligence = happiness, I'm saying in my experience the unhappy parents are the unintelligent ones, and happy familys stem from parents who are level headed and who are reasonable with their children. It's not some scientific fact, it's just what I've observed.

[Bobmuhthol]

Is it possible that you're judging them as unintelligent based on their condition? I'm interested in how you declare someone to be intelligent or unintelligent and the role of education in determining that.

[Necromancer]

Wait, I'd be REALLY interested in the citation for that story. And any other citations for statistics on marriage trends in the US from the 1980s to present. I've been gathering data for a section of my thesis, and I'd like to see where people get their info from.

[Bobmuhthol]

Per capita divorce rates, 1990-2002.

http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html

[Celephais]

Is it possible that you're judging them as unintelligent based on their condition?

Quite likely, I'm rather judgemental.


I'm interested in how you declare someone to be intelligent or unintelligent and the role of education in determining that.

Education has very little (to no) influence on my perception of someone's intelligence, I frequently make my (initial) judgement of a persons intelligence on their actions/way they present themselves. I'm trying to think of a good example but I don't really know my heuristic, it's just kind of a take in the whole thing and make a call. Although the stereotypical red-neck characteristics are major minuses.

[Sean of the Thread]

Lol.

[Landrion]

The best advice I was given, long before I was married or had a child was this: Whatever your relationship is like before a child, it's going to get magnified. I reflect on it a lot.

I could certainly see how if you had problems before, say for example fighting about money, children would exacerbate it. On the other hand, any little thing you take joy in, maybe gardening, can be greatly enhanced as you teach your little one to do it with you.