Prosopagnosia- Face Blindness

[Necromancer]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/02/02/face.blindness/index.html

I ran into this article today, and I thought I'd share it. Personally, I've had prosopagnosia (in addition to some mild visual agnosia issues) all of my life. It is kind of difficult at times, I'll admit. I don't have pictures of friends in my mind for the most part, and if I do it's almost always from a photograph or something, or I'll randomly have an image in my head from a point (often years prior), but I can't actually describe it to you because my head is just filling in details. Really I just remember one particular feature and build an image around that. The part that sucks is that everyone thinks you're a raging asshole because you can't remember them even after knowing them for years- they usually just assume that they were unimportant (if you havent' met them that many times), or that you hate them (if you have). The other day I sat across from an ex in the park for 20 minutes, apparently looked right at him, and then left without saying a word. You can imagine the phone call I got later! I'll check a guy out all night long, and then he'll put on a hat or a jacket, and I'll check him out all over again and say something asinine like, "Woah, we've got TWO super hot guys here! I LOVE this place!". And god help me if I'm watching a movie with two main characters who're both similar in phenotype- it's completely impossible for me to follow the plot! I get sooo confused.

Having said that, I think it's really funny when people talk about mild to moderate prosopagnosia in the same way they talk about cancer. I mean, yeah, it gets in the way, but as long as you're not the REALLY bad type who can't even recognize their husband day-to-day (most of us eventually piece together enough features to learn to recognize the people we see constantly), there's no need to cry about it.

I have no idea why I shared that either <g>

[Celephais]

Personally, I've had prosopagnosia

You sure you're not just a hypochondriac?

[Necromancer]

Oh, forgot to add that eye contact is my nemesis. I absolutely cannot look someone straight in the eyes- it overloads my brain, and I have to look away. I can only do it if I'm 1. faking it and looking between their eyes or 2. preparing myself (which I do). But if you're talking or something, I can't look at you. I used to get in SO much trouble for that (still do). People are like "ARE YOU LISTENING?", and it's hard to explain that if I don't look away at something else, I'm not going to understand or remember what you're saying.

[Skeeter]

bizarre

[Necromancer]

Possibly! But I hadn't heard of this, and certainly had no understanding of ADHD and dyslexia, before I was diagnosed.

Neurological disorders tend to travel in packs, fyi. There are huge co-morbidity rates among different LDs. 50% of dyslexics meet the criteria for ADHD, and 50% also meet the criteria for clinical dyspraxia. The area of the brain that they think is invovled in word recognition (an area severely impaired in many dyslexics) is also believed to be the area impaired in face blindness. The presence of finger agnosia is a better predictor of dycalculia than IQ tests or even math achievement tests.

Multiple diagnoses are more the norm than singular ones when it comes to neurological learning issues. Ultimately it's because your brain multi-tasks with a lot of its areas, and because a lot of activities (particularly those involved in learning) involve several regions of the brain. Reading, for example, involves a crap ton (there's no 'reading' area of your brain, unlike speech), which is why reading disabilities are the most common. Also, don't forget, that a lot of these labels are applied to symptoms, not causes (ADHD for example), since we're still working out the causes. So one area of the brain out of whack can lead to several diagnoses simply because that one area being out of whack creates several symptoms, which we identify as several 'disorders'.

[Back]

It also could be that you are just plain shy.

[Nieninque]

You sure you're not just a hypochondriac?

QFMFT

[Nieninque]

50% of dyslexics meet the criteria for ADHD,

90% of the population meet the criteria for ADHD.

Stop making excuses and just fucking do stuff.

[radamanthys]

Or, just propogate the stigma associated with mental health, and continue working to ensure that people don't ever recover.

Assholes.

[Back]

What do you call “over thinking it?”

[Stanley Burrell]

Yeah, my fusiform gyrus is really ineffective at distinguishing Chinese people.

.

[Celephais]

Yeah, my fusiform gyrus is really ineffective at distinguishing Chinese people.

.

HAH! Stanley FTHero

[Latrinsorm]

90% of the population meet the criteria for ADHD.

Stop making excuses and just fucking do stuff.Don't get me started on those pussies in wheelchairs! God, just fucking get up already!

[Necromancer]

Okay, that wheelchair comment made me laugh out loud.

And 90% of the population doesn't actually meet the criteria for ADHD. You may want to read the DSM-IV guidelines for diagnosis. NOT that I don't think it's a really, really horribly defined disorder since the symptoms overlap with about 100 different health problems and neurological issues.

[Clove]

Possibly! But I hadn't heard of this, and certainly had no understanding of ADHD and dyslexia, before I was diagnosed...


Wow... it sure seems you've decided to make up for your lack of understanding of neurological disorders in the interim. Crackin' mussels 1/2 my family has diabetes and they couldn't spout off that much about diabetes diagnosis, treatment, causes and statistics.

There are a variety of oddball neurological disorders and mental illnesses that run in my family too and I've inherited some of them although I won't inventory them here. I agree that people can sometimes make more of it than it is though and I don't think over-dramatizing them helps the stigmas any. I've always seen them simply as my own unique set of flaws that I need to understand and adjust for in my daily life. Nothing more or less.

[Nieninque]

Don't get me started on those pussies in wheelchairs! God, just fucking get up already!

I have a friend in a wheelchair who is a mother of two (yeah I know, I didnt know disabled people could fuck either) with a full time job and has gone to two paralympics with the GB women's wheelchair basketball team.

Now, obviously not everyone can perform to such high standards, but if someone with a clear and obvious disability can overcome the obstacles in her way to do shit like that, silly little whingers who claim their life is ruined by having a disorder that was pretty much invented to excuse bad parenting really need to STFU.

And Jesse, I work as a social worker and a large proportion of the kids we have to work for have diagnoses from lazy psychologists who pander to parents wishes and diagnose their kids with ADHD when they are clearly behaving in accordance with the fucked up environment they live in.

For the record, you arent the only person to have ever read DSMIv, so please insert it and similar comments like that where a monkey sticks his nuts.

[Nieninque]

Oh, forgot to add that eye contact is my nemesis. I absolutely cannot look someone straight in the eyes- it overloads my brain, and I have to look away. I can only do it if I'm 1. faking it and looking between their eyes or 2. preparing myself (which I do). But if you're talking or something, I can't look at you. I used to get in SO much trouble for that (still do). People are like "ARE YOU LISTENING?", and it's hard to explain that if I don't look away at something else, I'm not going to understand or remember what you're saying.

I would see a doctor if I were you, that could be something serious.

[Necromancer]

Sorry, comments like "90% of people meet the criteria for ADHD" don't exactly scream, "I know what the criteria for ADHD are".

And yes, people who just don't have the necessary background in LDs and neurology tend to think EVERYTHING is ADHD. Auditory Processing Disorder, Visual Processing Difficulties, high functioning autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia, sensory integration dysfunction, dyscalculia, etc. can ALL create inattention and school difficulties. Some of them can even induce symptoms of hyperactivity. The use of checklists by doctors and psychiatrists as opposed to full neurological assessments and careful case history studies are a serious problem; I agree. But you also need to recognize that the people you're working with aren't exactly a representative sample of the population. And it's hard to draw broad-based conclusions from them.

Also, what kills me is that if people recognize and talk about the extent of their difficulties with a disability (or race, or sexuality, or gender, or class, etc) they're 'whiners' and 'making excuses'. The irony, of course, is that it's the people who respond that way who are making excuses and whining.

[Nieninque]

Also, what kills me is that if people recognize and talk about the extent of their difficulties with a disability (or race, or sexuality, or gender, or class, etc) they're 'whiners' and 'making excuses'. The irony, of course, is that it's the people who respond that way who are making excuses and whining.

Ha! You have no fucking idea what obstacles I face in my life, because I dont come here with a thread about some new syndrome every time I fuck something up or find something hard.

Unlike you, I might add.

[Necromancer]

No, I don't. And no, you don't. I don't know anyone who does. But let's not pretend for a second that talking about an experience is the same thing as blaming an experience for something. And let's also not bother pretending that people who have experience disadvantage aren't fully capable of, and in fact often lauded for, tossing out the 'buck up' line. It makes them feel better about themselves, and it makes larger society feel better about existing inequities.

Notice, for example, the way discussions with the 'express frustration and tell a tale/meet with sarcasm and disbelief/disdain' phenomenon effectively prevent those discussions from centering on what can be changed so that these things aren't obstacles any longer. It's the Bill Cosby, "stop talking about yourselves as though you're victims" problematic. It essentially victimizes the intended audience in the very act of the statement, and it does so largely by 1. looking to place blame and 2. placing it in the wrong direction. It's the ultimate in excuse making. It's one big excuse to avoid productive conversation and to invalid the experiences of others. A shame it's so effective.

[Clove]

Yeah shame on Bill Cosby for encouraging successful attitudes. Here are some words from a few other victimizers...

"Everything in life depends on how that life accepts its limits."
~James Baldwin

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
~Eleanor Roosevelt

"No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new doorway for the human spirit."
~Helen Keller

[TheSmooth1]

"No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new doorway for the human spirit."
~Helen Keller



Yeah shame on Bill Cosby for encouraging successful attitudes. Here are some words from a few other victimizers...

Something's not right here...

[Necromancer]

I know three people who're turning in their graves right now. Each of them spent significant time and energy trying to address inequality here in the US. And each suffered needlessly due to identity or ability.

Telling people, in effect, to 'get over it' is the cruelest possible thing you can say, even when it's couched in inspirational terminology. It's also selfish.

Yes people need to take responsibility for their own actions, but people need not be fed a plate full of BS invalidating their experiences and using the 'exceptions' who make it to obscure and efface the other 99% who don't and who spend the rest of their lives blaming themselves for it. Everyone loves the rags to riches story, but how many riches to rags stories have you heard?

And no, a bunch of 25 year-olds who gained a million and lost it again in two years in Silicon Valley don't count.

[StrayRogue]

Ha! You have no fucking idea what obstacles I face in my life, because I dont come here with a thread about some new syndrome every time I fuck something up or find something hard.

Unlike you, I might add.

Quote for the motherfucking win.

Everyone has problems. Some people blame them on imaginary or otherwise pscyhological difficulties. Some people have REAL problems that don't stem from the fact they were hugged too much or not enough as a child, or just have defective gene's.

The winners overcome these things.

The losers keep whining about them.

[Jolena]

Having said that, I think it's really funny when people talk about mild to moderate prosopagnosia in the same way they talk about cancer. I mean, yeah, it gets in the way, but as long as you're not the REALLY bad type who can't even recognize their husband day-to-day (most of us eventually piece together enough features to learn to recognize the people we see constantly), there's no need to cry about it.

I have no idea why I shared that either <g>


I dunno about you guys..but this doesn't seem like he's whining about his condition, or asking for sympathy, or blaming his life's problems on it either. Sounds like he just found a cool article, shared it, and expressed his opinion about letting it get over on you. :shrug:

[StrayRogue]

I think the fact the condition exists (or perhaps people think the condition exists) is what rubs people the wrong way. Basically it's just another excuse to not be good at something. Something else to blame on Mum and Dad. Some other issue that "isn't really your fault".

[Clove]

Telling people, in effect, to 'get over it' is the cruelest possible thing you can say, even when it's couched in inspirational terminology. It's also selfish.


And yet you're the one saying 'get over it'. Encouraging someone to focus on transcending obstacles doesn't invalidate anything. It is part of a strategy for success.

[CrystalTears]

NO SACRIFICE, NO VICTORY!

[Clove]

NO SACRIFICE, NO VICTORY!

There's more to Bill Cobsy than meets the eye....

[TheEschaton]

The good thing is, if someone were to, say, hit Necromancer upside the head for being a whinging brat who needs to get over himself, he shouldn't be able to pick you up out of a lineup.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

The good thing is, if someone were to, say, hit Necromancer upside the head for being a whinging brat who needs to get over himself, he shouldn't be able to pick you up out of a lineup.

-TheE-
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/IM-IN-UR/graypost.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

I think the fact the condition exists (or perhaps people think the condition exists) is what rubs people the wrong way.Just for future reference, this is what I'm talking about when I say non-scientists really are not trained properly for evaluating things scientifically.
Basically it's just another excuse to not be good at something. Something else to blame on Mum and Dad. Some other issue that "isn't really your fault".AMEN! will those paraplegics just stop making EXCUSES already? Losers. I'm sick of our taxpayer money going to construct ramps for these whiners too. Me and you, StrayRogue! We'll knock those cripples down a.... well, I guess they're already down. We'll knock them SIDEWAYS a peg!

[Nieninque]

Just for future reference, this is what I'm talking about when I say non-scientists really are not trained properly for evaluating things scientifically.AMEN! will those paraplegics just stop making EXCUSES already? Losers. I'm sick of our taxpayer money going to construct ramps for these whiners too. Me and you, StrayRogue! We'll knock those cripples down a.... well, I guess they're already down. We'll knock them SIDEWAYS a peg!

Clearly, those who do not agree with the likes of Necromancers latest claim for marginalisation from society do not agree with the concept of any disability.

[Alfster]

Was it this or the ADD that got you booted from school?

[Latrinsorm]

Disagree all you want. Saying anyone who is actually handicapped by a disability is a "whiner" or a "loser" is absolute bullshit, and if nobody calls StrayRogue on his bullshit, how is he ever going to get better?

[Alfster]

Disagree all you want. Saying anyone who is actually handicapped by a disability is a "whiner" or a "loser" is absolute bullshit, and if nobody calls StrayRogue on his bullshit, how is he ever going to get better?

I haven't heard anyone call a person who is actually handicapped a "whiner" or a "loser" yet in this thread.

[Celephais]

Disagree all you want. Saying anyone who is actually handicapped by a disability is a "whiner" or a "loser" is absolute bullshit, and if nobody calls StrayRogue on his bullshit, how is he ever going to get better?

There is a difference between having a disability and being disabled. ::cue the more you know inspiriational music::

I think if you've got something genetically wrong with you, you have to make due the best you can, because whining won't get you anywhere (I don't think everyone who is disabled is a whiner.. and I have no problem with wheelchairs or ramps or anything like that... one of my good friends has MS, and he's perfectly capable, just every now and then he tries to milk it and ask people to get stuff for him when he's perfectly able to walk over and get it... the tough love approach works rather well. Although it's a luxury that MS sufferers are able to get better the more they work on it, so we play to that aspect)

[Nieninque]

I havent said anything against people with a disability.
I have disagreed with 99% of disagnoses of ADHD (including that of someone who can sit for hours playing a text based computer game).
I would place Jesse's claims to facemosis or whatever it is called, right up there with whoever it was that decided that Oppositional Defiance Disorder was a valid condition for kids that dont do as they are told.

Fucking garbage.

Someone sent me an email the other day that might go some way to explaining it more.


CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE

1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's 70's and 80's !!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us.


They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes.


Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.


We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we
rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking .

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.


We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.

We ate cakes, white bread and real butter and drank pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......


WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!


We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.


We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem .


We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no
99 channels on cable or satelite, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no mobile
phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD
FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents .

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.


We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes.


We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!


Football teams had trials and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!


The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!


This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

The past 60 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned

HOW TO

DEAL WITH IT ALL!

And YOU are one of them!

CONGRATULATIONS!

and while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.


PS -The big type is because your eyes are shot at your age

[Skeeter]

I haven't heard anyone call a person who is actually handicapped a "whiner" or a "loser" yet in this thread.

Dessedemona is a loser.

[Alfster]

I retract my statement

[DeV]

Thankfully, I never forget a face. From what I've read of this disorder it is not debilitating to the extent of being unable to function in day to day life, hold a job, enjoy family and friends, etc. It is a very real disorder and the last sentence in the article sums up nicely how those afflicted are able to deal.

"Many of the subjects that Nakayama's team has studied say they have spent much of their lives compensating for their face blindness. "They spend so much time, but somehow, they do it."

[StrayRogue]

Clearly, those who do not agree with the likes of Necromancers latest claim for marginalisation from society do not agree with the concept of any disability.

Clearly.

I guess Latrine is just being an argumentative bitch. Like always.

[radamanthys]

(preface: I work in a psychiatric hospital)

There's a serious stigma associated with mental disorders, just like with a lot of other things. Like homosexuality. Or race. It's funny- it's other people who create those issues. So pardon me for calling you assholes in my earlier post. Let me rephrase and call you hateful assholes.

Yea, maybe you're right. I suppose schizophrenic people are just "faking it" and people with serious phobias need to just "relax".

Guess what... "getting over it" for many people requires treatment. If you're gonna be a fucktarded asshole and keep the stigma going, it's gonna be harder for people to get treatment and actually improve. It's going to be difficult for people to be able to "get over it". Typically, it's impossible through strength of character alone.

I take it you don't have any kind of LD or mental health issue going on. You might, actually, considering that you've read parts of the DSM-IV, but I digress. You should share all your issues so we can belittle them and tell you that it's all your fault for being weak/stupid/incompetent. That's what you're doing with Jesse.

There exist issues with mental health are actually physical. I knew one person who had some sort of... intensity. Anger, nervousness, etc. Couldn't hold a job. Turns out they had a serious renal (kidney) problem that was affecting their adrenal glands. Took him a while to get help. People just said, "get over it".
I suppose that makes it all better right? "Oh! Something was wrong with him for real! I feel so relieved."

The brain is part of the body, and if part of it isn't working, how is that any different than someone's arm not working, or their leg not working? It may have a different level of effect on their apparent (physical, because that's visible) coping within a normal society, but it's still a disability. An issue we don't know much about, either, so treatment is typically more difficult and less likely to succeed because of that.

I'm not saying that every kid with ADHD should be put on a pedestal and given preferential treatment. They should be held to the same standards as other kids, for sure. Some of ADHD is just bad parenting, I agree there. Plus, in many cities, parents are given compensation for their kid having issues. Cash. So parents actually have encouraged kids to act up. That's sick, to me.

So, in the end, I can just say- you have an issue with all this? Well.... "get over it".

[StrayRogue]

How long have human beings survived, prospered and flourished on this planet?

But anyway, I don't think any of us have said that mental disorders don't exist. Or that some people have great difficulty communicating/existing in this world.

An old housemate of mine has Asperger's. My uncle is in a wheelchair, etc.

These things happen.

However it's when people start using them as a crux, as an excuse to not be productive/happy/"normal" members of society, that it becomes wrong. And you yourself must be fucking insane if you think people do not read things like this and go "SHIT, that's what I have. No wonder I got bullied in school. No wonder I can't concentrate when I read et al". THIS SHIT HAPPENs. Just like people with real difficulties get told to stfu and get on with life.

It doesn't even have to be the person himself. Parent's could blame their overactive and disobedient children on ADHD for example. This stigma will stay with the child forever, in their minds, giving them an excuse as to why they don't have to act like "everyone else". Basically it's an excuse. A carte blanche diagnosis that allows them to act like a fucking baby and be immune to the comeback.

[radamanthys]

My point was that that attitude prevents the afflicted from getting the help they need. If it's all about "just get over it", then people who are surrounded by those nay-sayers will try and "just get over it" when it's nigh impossible with the condition.

In humanities past, the loonies and self-medicating drunks were just killed, jailed or something similiarly dehumanizing. For what it's worth, many alcoholic homeless are actually afflicted, and never were able to get any treatment due to the stigmas associated with their affliction, and now exist as degenerates.

I'm not saying that people are entitled to act as they do, making excuses for being unable to cope. I'm saying that the "just get over it" attitude can be an impossible and limiting cure, and that real treatment needs to happen for many.

The agorophobic are not just asocial personalities, the antisocial (sociopatic) are not just psychopaths, etc. They're afflicted people who need help. Same with people with types of LD. It's not an excuse, but it's a way to be able to find treatment.

[Nieninque]

It doesn't even have to be the person himself. Parent's could blame their overactive and disobedient children on ADHD for example. This stigma will stay with the child forever, in their minds, giving them an excuse as to why they don't have to act like "everyone else". Basically it's an excuse. A carte blanche diagnosis that allows them to act like a fucking baby and be immune to the comeback.

And that's exactly what happens in the majority of cases of kids with ADHD that I come across. It isnt the kids calling it, it's their parents.

One case in particular sticks in my mind. The local child pychologist (or psychiatrist cant remember which) who was responsible for most of the diagnoses of ADHD was talking to me about a particular child who he had diagnosed as having ADHD. I said I didnt think he did have ADHD based on my assessment of him and what was going on in his family. He agreed. He felt that the parents were clamouring for the diagnosis because it would then absolve them of any responsibility for his behaviour. The Psych decided that he would give the diagnosis and then attempt to encourage the parents to engage with support services to learn how to deal with a child with ADHD. They werent interested. As soon as they had the diagnosis for the child, they insisted that he was prescribed ritalin and that's as much as they wanted.

Fucked up.

The vast majority of cases of kids with alleged ADHD appear to be in similar circumstances in my experience. I dont doubt that it exists, I strongly doubt it is as widespread as it appears to be based upon the amount of kids diagnosed with it. Most people use it to abrogate responsibility for their child's behaviour, and that is just wrong.

[Nieninque]

The agorophobic are not just asocial personalities, the antisocial (sociopatic) are not just psychopaths, etc. They're afflicted people who need help. Same with people with types of LD. It's not an excuse, but it's a way to be able to find treatment.

I dont see anyone disputing that.

[Latrinsorm]

I haven't heard anyone call a person who is actually handicapped a "whiner" or a "loser" yet in this thread.http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=600401&postcount=24

To be technical, StrayRogue didn't use the word "whiner"; rather, he said those people were "whining". Of course, you may be agreeing with him that certain people aren't "actually" handicapped, in which case that post would not be compelling evidence for you.
I havent said anything against people with a disability.As I'm sure you've noticed, you're also not StrayRogue.

As to your email, specifically the "we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us." line:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779935.html
In short: 80,000+ babies didn't actually survive in 1950s conditions.

And also, it's pretty telling that the writer(s) would lump people born in the 30s into the same group as people born in the 70s.

[StrayRogue]

As I said: nothing but an argumentative bitch.

[radamanthys]

There are some shitty psychiatrists out there. I teach them, I should know. There are some shitty parents out there (mine were awesome, but still)

But- refer to the OP... this is about Jesse's personal affliction that you said was bullshit and that he needed to get over and stop whining. I seriously doubt that he's at the point where he needs to just "get over it" and he accepts that he needs treatment and not just some excuse to absolve his issues (or poor parenting, like in the aforementioned case). I believe someone said "oh, maybe he's just shy". If he believed that, he would just accept it and never get the treatment be able to recover.

Taking a label of "lazy", "Shy", "crazy", or some other such thing is just as bad as saying "Oh! Your kid has ADHD, here's pills... lets do absolutely nothing to manage the condition. Gee what a good parent I am."

[Nieninque]

There are some shitty psychiatrists out there. I teach them, I should know. There are some shitty parents out there (mine were awesome, but still)

But- refer to the OP... this is about Jesse's personal affliction that you said was bullshit and that he needed to get over and stop whining. I seriously doubt that he's at the point where he needs to just "get over it" and he accepts that he needs treatment and not just some excuse to absolve his issues (or poor parenting, like in the aforementioned case). I believe someone said "oh, maybe he's just shy". If he believed that, he would just accept it and never get the treatment be able to recover.

Taking a label of "lazy", "Shy", "crazy", or some other such thing is just as bad as saying "Oh! Your kid has ADHD, here's pills... lets do absolutely nothing to manage the condition. Gee what a good parent I am."

He strikes me as someone who is reading through some kind of psychology book and is seeing listings of certain behaviours associated with various conditions and is very much "OMG THATS ME!!! I MUST GO TELL MY SUPPORT NETWORK ON Gsplayers.com"

When I read through the likes of Psychology books or DSMIV, the thing that strikes me about a lot of it is how fucking subjective it all is and how people could apply a lot of things like ADHD or Depression etc. to 90% of the population. There are a lot of arguments about the gender issues related to mental health and subsequent diagnoses that raise more questions than answers about the certainty of some mental health issues.

[Alfster]

To be technical, StrayRogue didn't use the word "whiner"; rather, he said those people were "whining". Of course, you may be agreeing with him that certain people aren't "actually" handicapped, in which case that post would not be compelling evidence for you.As I'm sure you've noticed, you're also not StrayRogue.


I agree with him that the OP is not handicapped, instead I think he's a whiney bitch

[radamanthys]

I think he's been to see docs for a while, so to think that he's self-diagnosing is a stretch.

Re-read his posts in this thread... I didn't get that vibe at all.

[Nieninque]

And if the doctor says it is a genuine problem he suffers from, then it must be true.

Fair point.

[radamanthys]

Sarcasm?

Well, his symptoms match the criterion, and there's very little stretch to this. He's got the issue. I never said that they nailed down a proximate cause for the affliction- it could range from improper development of certain neuro-pathways to a baseball sized tumor in his prefrontal cortex. They more than likely have the symptoms right. It's just a name for the issue which leads to a protocol for treatment.

[TheEschaton]

In humanities past, the loonies and self-medicating drunks were just killed, jailed or something similiarly dehumanizing. For what it's worth, many alcoholic homeless are actually afflicted, and never were able to get any treatment due to the stigmas associated with their affliction, and now exist as degenerates.

Or they wrote the most inspirational music, painted the most beautiful paintings, or had ideas so painstakingly ahead of themselves that they couldn't deal with themselves.

Emily Dickinson, Poe, Van Gogh, Einstein, Mozart, Nietzsche, Newton, all of these people had "diseases" which would be diagnosed and medicated into oblivion today.

Instead, they dealt with it, and became some of the most influential people ever. Not in spite of their "disease", but because of it.

I hate to think what kind of genius we're losing due to society's insistence that we all fit in one mold of "normalcy".

So yeah, when presented with most behavioral issues which aren't violent or physically harmful, I DO say get over it. Because some of the greatest people ever, have.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

Having a child who was just diagnosed as educationally mentally handicapped, and who also has severe language/communication issues, I can honestly and positively tell you that not *all* parents enjoy and/or desire to have such a label put on their children. Not only for the stigma that is going to now be attached to my wonderful, bright and happy five year old son from his classmates and educators, but also because I know that he is capable of great things - even if those great things don't fall in line with the curriculum and guidelines/charts that are set up to evaluate five year olds.

[Nieninque]

Having a child who was just diagnosed as educationally mentally handicapped, and who also has severe language/communication issues, I can honestly and positively tell you that not *all* parents enjoy and/or desire to have such a label put on their children. Not only for the stigma that is going to now be attached to my wonderful, bright and happy five year old son from his classmates and educators, but also because I know that he is capable of great things - even if those great things don't fall in line with the curriculum and guidelines/charts that are set up to evaluate five year olds.

Damn...there goes my theory that *all* parents want their kids diagnosed with some kind of disability or disorder....oh, wait!

[Necromancer]

Yeah, thanks to the person who quoted my original post where I actually said straight out that I didn't consider it to be something debilitating. I never once even claimed to be debilitated by it. I shared some anecdotes about what it's like and shared an interesting article.

For the record, upon diagnosis of dyslexia and ADHD I initially expressed intense skepticism (read: denial). I initially wouldn't let them test me for a reading disability, I was offended at the mere thought of it. (Of course, this goes to show how little I understood about dyslexia) The diagnosis of associative prosopganosia took the form of a humorous conversation with the person who was assessing me for visual processing difficulties (in context of the dyslexia). I shared some funny stories, he asked me more questions, and he said "Yeah, this is Prosopagnosia, it's more common in dyslexics than it should be, so it's not all that surprising."

My argument with people in this thread was exactly the knee-jerk reaction people had to it. "OH MY GOD, SOMEONE JUST USED A LABEL! FAKER! WHINER! EXCUSE-MAKING!" Which is sort of funny, because it begs the question...what was the excuse requested for? Did you see a request for an excuse from the original poster (me) or anyone in the article? Or did you 'read it between the lines'? That one says far more about 'you' as reader, and social stigma attached to mental health/psychology (as someone already pointed out) than about anything or anyone else.

And, honestly, please stop making excuses for your poor pre-conceived notions about disabilities. And please stop whining about people who aren't ashamed to say they have them and to discuss them.

No one likes a whiner or an excuse maker.

[Clove]

Or they wrote the most inspirational music, painted the most beautiful paintings, or had ideas so painstakingly ahead of themselves that they couldn't deal with themselves...

Dammit Eschaton, so often I disagree with you and yet I have to respect you. Very well said.

[CrystalTears]

Because it has everything to do with this...
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=24514
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=24524
And not just this thread.

[TheEschaton]

That's why I want to be a courtroom lawyer, and not some schmuck negotiating deals in a boardroom. ;)

-TheE-

[Necromancer]

Wait, you mean the thread where I posted why I was selling my characters because everyone kept asking me? The one where I outlined spending several years working to find solutions and outlined my plan to make everything right?

Yeah, I actually found it really humerous that people popped in and said "STOP WHINING AND DO SOMETHING!". All I could think was, "Um, did you read any of that? I just outlined three years of me working my arse off to 'do something' and explained my big plan for the next several months to finally use everything I worked so hard for to dig myself out of the hole I landed in". But, of course, as previously stated, the only way some people can react to any kind of discourse on the subject is to scream "STOP WHINING!".

It's unfortunate that the circumstances people often face due to sexuality, gender, race,disability, nationality, class, and linguistic background are so depressing that even the most objective retelling is still so easily read as 'whining'. But that's really only unfortunate for the person telling the story. No one else has a right to complain.

[Necromancer]

Litigators make serious money. They also have a 50% dropout rate by the 2 year mark.

Choose your legal track wisely. (Work to be a professor like me haha)

[TheEschaton]

Those are the pussy ones. And I want to be a prosecutor, not a litigator.

[Clove]

...It's unfortunate that the circumstances people often face due to sexuality, gender, race,disability, nationality, class, and linguistic background are so depressing that even the most objective retelling is still so easily read as 'whining'. But that's really only unfortunate for the person telling the story. No one else has a right to complain.

You know, I haven't once accused you of whining, but now even I want to say it:

Stop Whining!

[Latrinsorm]

Instead, they dealt with it, and became some of the most influential people ever. Not in spite of their "disease", but because of it.If you seriously think Nietzsche's many ailments weren't physically harmful, you aren't anywhere near familiar enough with him. I'm interested to hear what Newton suffered from, tangentially.

[Clove]

If you seriously think Nietzsche's many ailments weren't physically harmful, you aren't anywhere near familiar enough with him. I'm interested to hear what Newton suffered from, tangentially.

Let's take a moment to look at the forest and not the tree. I think the E seriously thought that whatever the nature of Nietzsche's ailments, he transcended them, that was the point of the post IMO.

[Alfster]

Because it has everything to do with this...
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=24514
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=24524
And not just this thread.

QFT

[Latrinsorm]

Let's take a moment to look at the forest and not the tree. I think the E seriously thought that whatever the nature of Nietzsche's ailments, he transcended them, that was the point of the post IMO.If that was his point, he did an exceptionally good job of cloaking it by saying "So yeah, when presented with most behavioral issues which aren't violent or physically harmful, I DO say get over it."

Two sides to this for Nietzsche:
1) He wrote how he was thankful for his horrible suffering (naturally). He also made full use of the medicine available to him (to no great effect).
2) He wrote how Jesus of Nazareth would have been significantly better off if he had had time to come around to more sensible views. Jesus died in his early 30s. Nietzsche had a complete and permanent breakdown at 45, and was significantly diminished for some time before that. Forget thinking about the people we're losing today to suppressive medicine, think about the people we lost (and still lose) to early death from eminently preventable causes.

Forest for the trees indeed.

[Necromancer]

Lord, as many comments as I've made that were extrapolated to general society and groups rather than a particular individual, you'd think you'd have figured out by now that when I make broad statements I'm not simply referencing myself.

For the record though, STOP COMPLAINING and stop reading any threads you don't like.

Yet another thread hijacked by team negative nancy.

[TheEschaton]

Ummm, Newton was a shut in and paranoid, thinking that everyone was out to get him.

As for Nietzsche, his work was important. He might be the exception to the rule, because his work necessitated pain to write it. The point is, he, because of his disease, wrote some of the most inspiring work which gave birth to modern philosophy.

-TheE-

[radamanthys]

Yea, the ratio of genius self-medicating drunks with a mental illness or disability is tiny! I mean, we should all be so fortunate, so we can all be smart like van gogh! I'd love to die in a gutter, just like poe!

We knew little bits of their lives through their work. It's the exception rather than the rule. The homeless problem in this country isn't about poverty at all... it's, for the most part, about improper mental healthcare and substance abuse counseling (which go hand-in-hand, alcohol in volume fucks up the brain royally in many people).

Mental health issues are not nearly always debilitating or crippling. Many times there are simple steps to treat symptoms. Like, with some ADHD in children... don't give them cola, candy, or crack- they're often sensitive to sugars or other chemicals in their diet. Medication is a benefit to, and is almost requisite for, the severely bipolar, schizophrenic, and unipolar depressive, among others. Some issues can be resolved through counseling and small changes in lifestyle. Tenacity of treatment really depends on what your Axis 5 (ability to function) really is. But if any sort of mental health issue impacts one's life, one often needs to be treated, and once you know your diagnosis, you can make changes to your life to cope with the issue. Regardless of whether parents are using it as an excuse or not, it's still a necessity.

As Jesse said in the first place- he knows what he has now and is working to make small (or big) changes to cope. The support structures aren't as good for LD and other mental health issues, because they aren't readily definable. Face it, some kids are just dumb or lazy. If teachers would stop lumping the dumb and the afflicted together, it'd be better. But the afflicted kids are supposed to "just deal with it" until they reach a point when they realize something just isn't right. That they have smarts, but just a couple wires crossed. Today, people recover. In the past, they didn't.

I happen to think that mental health treatment allows more people to be successful that didn't have that ability beforehand. Throwing out 5 or 6 examples from the past 300 years or so of people who triumphed in spite (without making the point that the entirety of the rest of their lives, in some circumstances, were fucked up) is just not fair.

[CrystalTears]

Like, with some ADHD in children... don't give them cola, candy, or crack- they're often sensitive to sugars or other chemicals in their diet.
Uh, I think that applies to all children, not just ADHD. It's been shown that children on sugar highs can't concentrate as well as those on a stable, balanced, low sugar diet. This isn't quantum physics here, just common sense.

:lol: I'm sorry, I can't believe you put crack in there.

How to cure ADHD. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrWCYF8WB9w)

[radamanthys]

There have been many kids classified ADHD because of that very reason. Diet is huge- especially in children who are more likely to be effected by chemicals.

And it's goes without saying that as far as your kid's diet goes... crack is just about out.

[CrystalTears]

And that's why I have a problem with that diagnosis and people who diagnose it that way. There's apparently no money in telling the parent, stop giving them sweets and junk and he will improve. Oh no, that would make too much sense.

[radamanthys]

Unfortunately, like with pain management, where the potential for abuse is high, so is the necessity for treatment. Unfortunately the paragigm hasn't shifted enough to recovery and continues to stick to regular ol' maintenance of the condition. People equate mental health more to an illness, like an infection, that can just be treated like it'll just go away. On the contrary, it's an affliction that needs more than just some pills.

BTW, the rapid feminization of the public school system doesn't help. Learning styles have proven that with the current "status quo" of education, males are at a definate disadvantage- causing many boys (the typical recipients of ADHD diagnoses) to act up due to improper teaching methods. I agree that good parenting should be able to cover that inconsistancy (the reason suburban education is much better than urban has really nothing to do with funding, but more about presence of real parenting), it stands to reason that there are a metric fuckton of bad parents out there. Rich, poor, middle class- if you're a bad parent, your kid is going to have issues. And there's a legal responsibilty, as per the philosophy and rule of "in loco parentis" that says that where a parent fails, the school must stand in in place of the parents.
My point is that there should be some system and training in place in schools to recognize children that need some sort of treatment, so that they don't slip through the cracks.

It stands to reason, as Jesse said:

But I hadn't heard of this, and certainly had no understanding of ADHD and dyslexia, before I was diagnosed.
Shouldn't have happened.

But with a large number of people saying that people should just "get over it and be good" and to "stop whining", there's no capacity for care. I agree that there are many people who triumphed on their own over their issues. But, if the part of the brain that allows one to do that is fubar, then what? We're only as strong as our brains allow us to be, and if something is broken without us knowing it, then how can one succeed?

Losing (part of) your mind is like losing your glasses, too. If you can't see to find them, how can you ever find them? You need help from someone who can see. If you're supposed to be normal, and you consider yourself so, and then have all these issues that other people don't have... you end up just considering yourself a loser, and incapable of succeeding. Then you get depressed. You need some sort of outlet to save you from that. You start drinking (or drugs), realizing that it eases the pain to some degree. Then, when the drunkenness lingers, you get more depressed than you were before. Then you start drinking more. You can't hold a job. Your wife leaves you- you're just a no-good drunk. Your house gets repoed, and you've no ambition to find another place or job, due to the depression. You end up on the streets. As with other illness, the environmental conditions can impact the condition. Your mental health starts deteriorating from your untreated preexisting condition, as well as the exacerbation due to poor diet, weather, and drug abuse. You start to get more bizzarre. Your GAF plunges even further. You don't shower, have irrational thoughts and delusions. You're a bum. This story is too common. Usually this happens with severe conditions. On a lesser scale, many kids with untreated LD end up poorly educated and don't succeed to the greatest of their ability because of it.

meh... shit. </rant>

[Latrinsorm]

Ummm, Newton was a shut in and paranoid, thinking that everyone was out to get him.Everyone was out to get him. :P
As for Nietzsche, his work was important. He might be the exception to the rule, because his work necessitated pain to write it. The point is, he, because of his disease, wrote some of the most inspiring work which gave birth to modern philosophy.The first point is that "because of his disease" is utter horseshit. The idea that Nietzsche wouldn't have been pissed off at nihilism without debilitating GI cramps and crappy eyesight is unbelievably denigrating to someone whose work you claim as important. The other point is that because of his many ailments we lost 30 years of potential Nietzschean development. Where would we be if Newton had never published the Principia due to his brain turning to mush?

[Satira]

I'd also like to interject that just because those people produced wonderful literature, artwork or ideas does not mean that they had a GREAT OL' TIME doing it for our benefit and would have definitely chosen that path if medication had been offered. Or that their suffering had anything to do with their work in the first place.

[Atlanteax]

Losing (part of) your mind is like losing your glasses, too. If you can't see to find them, how can you ever find them? You need help from someone who can see. If you're supposed to be normal, and you consider yourself so, and then have all these issues that other people don't have... you end up just considering yourself a loser, and incapable of succeeding. Then you get depressed. You need some sort of outlet to save you from that. You start drinking (or drugs), realizing that it eases the pain to some degree. Then, when the drunkenness lingers, you get more depressed than you were before. Then you start drinking more. You can't hold a job. Your wife leaves you- you're just a no-good drunk. Your house gets repoed, and you've no ambition to find another place or job, due to the depression. You end up on the streets. As with other illness, the environmental conditions can impact the condition. Your mental health starts deteriorating from your untreated preexisting condition, as well as the exacerbation due to poor diet, weather, and drug abuse. You start to get more bizzarre. Your GAF plunges even further. You don't shower, have irrational thoughts and delusions. You're a bum.

Hysteria...

[Jolena]

Damn...there goes my theory that *all* parents want their kids diagnosed with some kind of disability or disorder....oh, wait!

Yah..because my post was obviously directed specifically at you.

[radamanthys]

Hysteria?

[Clove]

Hysteria?

Yeah, you know Def Leopard's 4th album. 1987. Pour Some Sugar on Me. One armed drummer etc.

[Blazing247]

Rad, if you work in the field, you surely know that a portion of "mental illness diagnoses" are in fact largely behavioral. Not insinuating that this is the case here, but therapists and parents are so eager to put a label on everything so that meds can be administered to "fix them" that the number's are skewed.

[Clove]

...Losing (part of) your mind is like losing your glasses, too. If you can't see to find them, how can you ever find them? You need help from someone who can see....

Mental illness and neurological disorders are like that. They are debilitating. Identifying the nature of the problem is key; without a diagnosis a person suffers without any understanding of what's causing it, or why ,or how it can be helped. Therapy and medication also play key roles.

The experiences in my own life (although anecdotal) indicate that there is another factor that determines whether, or not a person will recover and overcome- attitude.

I've watched family, and friends struggle with identical mental illness or learning disabilities, receive similar treatment, and yet one thrives and the other doesn't. Invariably the only thing that distinguishes the ones that thrive is an attitude. The ones that thrive "own" it. They accept the disease and are committed to conquer it any way they can. To press on. To thrive and endure despite all.

I think the geniuses the E remarked on serve as examples of this attitude.

[Xaerve]

You sure you're not just a hypochondriac?

^

[Latrinsorm]

They accept the disease and are committed to conquer it any way they can. To press on. To thrive and endure despite all.
The salient point here is to accept the disease as a disease and not as something which can simply be overcome by positive thinking (or as something that is simply whining if it has any deleterious effect). Nobody thinks they can beat cancer with cheerfulness alone, it positively baffles me that anyone thinks mental illness is any different. Again, Nietzsche made use of every medical remedy available to him; it makes 0 sense to cite him as some kind of champion of the non-medicated.

[radamanthys]

I understand that there exists within the field misdiagnosis. We just don't understand enough about the brain. But some diagnoses are still rather apparent. As I said earlier, though... we don't know the proximate cause of almost all mental health issues, so it's a moot point. Diagnostics only serve to help the person get treatment for what symptoms they have, regardless of the actual named condition.

[Clove]

The salient point here is to accept the disease as a disease and not as something which can simply be overcome by positive thinking (or as something that is simply whining if it has any deleterious effect). Nobody thinks they can beat cancer with cheerfulness alone, it positively baffles me that anyone thinks mental illness is any different. Again, Nietzsche made use of every medical remedy available to him; it makes 0 sense to cite him as some kind of champion of the non-medicated.

No,the salient point here is the essential nature of a positive attitude. Nobody ever beat cancer (or any other disease) without it.

[TheSmooth1]

Sorry, no.

My mother's had cancer three times, she's lived through all three while in near suicidal depression.

[Clove]

Sorry, no.

My mother's had cancer three times, she's lived through all three while in near suicidal depression.

Sorry, yes. There's a fellow who has been struck by lightning over a dozen times and lived. That doesn't mean you can be hit by lightning a dozen times and be expected to survive. Your mother is a very exceptional case but that doesn't change the fact that attitude is an essential element to a recovery.

[Latrinsorm]

It can't be essential if in even one case it was not required. Essential is the same as necessary, there's no almost to it.

In any event, you appear to be in a separate field, Clove. The main argument has been whether prosopagnosia, ADHD, and other similar mental illnesses even count as disabilities (or are in fact a form of probably teenaged whinginess).

[Nieninque]

Sorry, yes. There's a fellow who has been struck by lightning over a dozen times and lived.

I heard he's being charged for that.

Bit of a bright spark from all accounts.

[Clove]

It can't be essential if in even one case it was not required. Essential is the same as necessary, there's no almost to it.

In any event, you appear to be in a separate field, Clove. The main argument has been whether prosopagnosia, ADHD, and other similar mental illnesses even count as disabilities (or are in fact a form of probably teenaged whinginess).

Well I was constraining myself to mental illnesses and neurological diseases (not cancer or other physical diseasea). Since whining is an expression of attitude, I think commentary about attitude as it relates to mental illness is relevant. I think very few people are saying that disorders like prosopagnosia or ADHD exists, although some seem to question whether or not Necromancer genuinely has them. He does seem to be remarkably unlucky in the brain-wiring department.

If you'd like to play semantic games with my use of essential that's fine, and it's also fine if you don't think a person's attitude is a key element in a recovery (from mental illness or any other), I did after all say my evidence was anecdotal. But I'd encourage to ask an experienced doctor her opinion on the subject- I think you'll find many of them share my opinion.

[Clove]

I heard he's being charged for that.

Bit of a bright spark from all accounts.

Oh you should hear him recount the experiences. They're shocking stories to say the least, but I always get a jolt out of them.

[Back]

Heard of that guy and his tales are electrifying.

[TheEschaton]

God, please, it's too late at night for those fuckin' jokes. Let's go back to mocking sick people.

[Danical]

I work as a social worker and a large proportion of the kids we have to work for have diagnoses from lazy psychologists who pander to parents wishes and diagnose their kids with ADHD when they are clearly behaving in accordance with the fucked up environment they live in.

I worked alongside social workers and court appointed special advocates for children under the jurisdiction of the court for 6 months while doing my internship. I've read the case reports and it's just depressing what care kids in the system get. I'm not sure how different it is in your neck of the woods but I would wager it's just as heartbreaking at times.

I give social workers quite a lot of respect, the involved ones at least; they have limitless testicular fortitude, so to speak. I know I would burn out quickly in that profession; even after 6 months it was starting to wear on me.

[Necromancer]

Wow, you vanish for a few days, and look where things go!

First, I think a big part of the problem is that we so easily differentiate between 'mental' illness and 'physical' illness. The reality, of course, is that LDs and 'mental' illness are more properly classified as neurological conditions. There is no illness, or symptom, that doesn't come down to a biological issue. That's not to say that everything stems from biology (those all of the issues listed so far do), but that they all require a biological component to exist at all. One doesn't simply 'feel bad', neurological changes have to occur in order to 'feel bad', whether they're a result of environment or congential deficit. Similarly, physical illness can result from congenital deficits or, far more likely, environmental issues. I find it amazing that no one bothers to say "OH JUST GET OVER IT" to someone with syphillis (which is purely an environmental condition- one is not born with congential syphilis), but they'll say it to someone who is bipolar type II, which appears to generally be the result of congenital deficits.

Part of the problem is that people don't know what it's like to see, hear, think, feel, focus, switch tasks, etc. for anyone but themselves. In the instance of ADHD, for example, people frustratedly say "OH JUST FOCUS ALREADY AND STOP BEING LAZY!" because for them the area of the brain that regulates their attention, and the reward system intimately linked with it, function properly. Thus, while a task may be onerous, they are able to activate that part of their brain properly to switch to said onerous task. It generally doesn't dawn on people that one doesn't simply decide, 'from the soul'(?), to switch tasks without a series of neurological changes necessitating the switch.

If that part of the brain is damaged, or under active, what is for one person a simple, albeit potentially painful, attentional shift is for another a virtual impossibility. It's a difficult concept to grasp (I argued vehemently with my ADHD Therapist for weeks about this after diagnosis- even with over 20 years of a track record of being utterly unable to regulate my attention even when it was clearly in my best interest to do so. One day she finally just threw up her arms and said, "JESSE, that's why it's a DISORDER"), but that doesn't make it any less true.

And latrinstorm has, unwittingly, demonstrated one of the biggest problems with diagnosis and identification in his comment about the unfortunate miswiring of my brain (and the skepticism therein). Just as one would not attempt to diagnose a particular heart defect without a careful consideration of all symptoms, a family history, and use of diagnostic equipment, neurological conditions need to be subject to the same scrutiny. They cannot be diagnosed with a partial picture (which is often how it happens unfortunately). I still remember being tested for learning disabilities in elementary school. Looking back on the report (which I was able to snag from my old district after my ADHD therapist requested it), there was almost no family history taken, and the conclusions were drawn with very limited diagnostic information. The conclusion, of course, was that I suffered from no attentional issues or learning disabilities. The reasoning? There were no diagnosed LDs in my family history, and I had tested in the gifted range.

Of course, meanwhile my mother couldn't spell simple words, was completely unable to differentiate between a noun and a verb, had a long history of disorganization and significant short-term memory impairment as well as chronic anxiety related to an inability to self-motivate. And my sister was functionally illiterate and to this day can't watch a movie without subtitles due to auditory processing difficulties. And, of course, we now know that one can be quite gifted and still have moderate to severe learning or cognitive disabilities.

And, as a result, even though I stopped reading early on, was at or below grade level on reading comprehension on all tests (while post high school in every other subject except spelling as early as 7th grade), flunked spelling and handwriting (dyslexic dysgraphia) all through elementary, and was incapable of remembering where my classroom(s) was/were all through my education, I refused to even consider that I had any kind of learning difficulties or cognitive impairments because I was the 'smart' one of the family and because everyone knew that dyslexia meant you couldn't read, and I could definitely read- even if I was a bit slow and had problems pronouncing any words I had never heard spoken aloud and cringed when asked to read a passage aloud in front of a class.

Poor diagnosis is something that makes neurological disorders 'look bad'. One cannot come to these conclusions without the full picture. And when we do that, we perform a great injustice to the millions and millions in this country who suffer from neurological afflications- be they LDs or emotional/behavioral disorders. That anyone in these forums thinks they know enough to question the existence of a particular disorder, or a particular person's diagnosis by a professional, without at least a 'majority' picture is as unsettling as it is indicative. It's also part of a self-fulfilling leap of logic whereby people who already don't believe in particular disorders, or people who have them, further convince themselves of their opinions by applying their limited information to a situation and disproving it on faulty grounds. As Rad has pointed out several times, it's exactly this situation that continues to render people as victims when there's really no reason for them to be.

One becomes a victim when one is forced into a situation where they must request accommodations or face unfounded skepticism towards the barriers they face. One is not a victim when one doesn't have to deal with either. It is the broader audience that is responsible for the production of victims, not the ones who suffer from neurological disorders.

[Nieninque]

TLDR

[Some Rogue]

Jesus Christ...for someone with ADHD or whatever the fuck it is you got now, you sure can focus long enough to write a book.

[Necromancer]

Which would mean a lot more if it weren't coming from someone too lazy to spell out "Too Long, Didn't Read".

Oh, trust me, I don't write most of my posts all at once. I write something, then I wander away, then I come back and realize I'm not done, then I write some more, and then I wander away, and then I come back...etc. About 50% of the time I end up closing the window at some point before finishing because I've lost interest. Same with E-mail.

Same with my thesis =(

fyi ADHD isn't an inability to focus, it's an inability to regulate attention and to active the reward center of the brain. People with ADHD have as much trouble turning their attention away from things as they do focusing it on them. It has to do with a particular area of the brain requiring external stimuli to activate it, which is why stimulants have a substantial calming and focusing effect- they stimulate that area of the brain so it doesn't rely as heavily on other stimuli to do so.

[radamanthys]

Fucking great post, Jesse. Take a minute to read it, Nien... its rather worth it.

Q: Why did the dyslexic altruistic entomologist become a Scientologist?
A: He bought the book "Dianetics" thinking the title read "Insect Aid."