Relationship Advice

[Revalos]

Here's the relatively short version of what is happening to me currently, I'm looking for advice as to what to do:

I've been married to my beautiful wife for 6 years, but we're not even 30 years old yet. She apparently is "unhappy" with her life to this point, and although she swears up and down that it is all her, I tend to believe that my conduct has not helped. I got complacent, comfortable, and secure.

See, we skipped those wonderful 20s years of casual relationships and adventure, and settled down early. We own a house outside of DC, we both don't want kids, and we both have jobs we love. Now, she wants adventure...hell, she's always wanted adventure...but I'm a boring guy. Best adventure I've given her was some lame camping trips and such. She wants to find out "who she really is" and thinks that being around me is not the way to find that out.

She's talking of moving out, but it would be complicated (she makes about $2000 after taxes per month by herself in DC, and wants no roomates). So instead, she's going to go visit her mom (who is on her 3rd marriage, first two were assholes, the current guy is just as boring if not more so than me) for a week and theoretically going to start counseling next week (although she's said that before and not done it).

------------------

So...what do I do here? She's apparently been feeling like this for quite some time, but she's hidden her feelings well. She has been diagnosed in the past with clinical depression, but she hasn't relapsed in about 7 years to my knowledge. We don't ever fight, because I'm pretty much a sugar daddy, so we tend to bottle things up over time. Do I let things run their course? I'm going away for 3 weeks in august so she'll have quite a bit of time to herself...but I just came back from a one week trip and she laid all this out last night. I figure when I go on that bigger trip, she'll probably have moved out when I come back.

I love her, but I don't think she loves me (maybe never did). From her words, I am her best friend, and she now thinks she made a mistake marrying me. I want what's best for her, but I really don't get why she wants to go. I'm afraid if I let her go, she's going to find some dangerous guy and that will be that. But if I don't let her go, I'm relegating her to a boredom filled existence, because I haven't changed at all in my whole life.

Any help?

[Sean of the Thread]

Let her go man. She's on that train that can't be stopped in my experience. She may come back in a couple years ready to settle but in the mean time you should kick your boring guy routine to the curb and have some fun. Start your own adventure.

[CrystalTears]

I don't see anything wrong with giving people space, but make sure there's a timeframe. In other words, if she says a week, make her stick with that week. If she wants to extend, say one more week and that's it. Once you let them have that "time" they get complacent. Give her a definite time of alone time and then state that you'll work on the relationship if you both are looking for help to make it work or moving on.

Either way, you have to be prepared to let her go and move on if she's making these kind of decisions. She's kinda already being selfish and moving in her own direction. That she's saying this to you when you return from a trip is already in a me mentality. Just be careful. Don't let her drift and then pine for her return. Make a definite make or break timeline and have her stick to it or hasta la vista.

I wish you luck. Divorces aren't fun, but sometimes a necessary evil.

[Tolwynn]

You've probably essentially lost her already, but she may well be loathe to give up the sweet sugar daddy ride, too.

In any event, don't start screwing around with anyone else until separation or divorce are official, or she'll easily take you for half or more of everything you own.

[SpunGirl]

Meh, I'm a big believer in trying to save marriages unless there are huge issues of infidelity or abuse. I can understand what she's feeling, I've had similar feelings in the past - but I love my husband too much to up and leave. If I were you, I would stop being complacent, and start giving her no excuse to look outside the marriage for adventure and fun. Take a vacation abroad. Encourage her to go back to school. Ask her to specify how she thinks she's going to find herself (besides leaving you) and then help her make it happen.

Of course, this will mean she'll have to work on things, too... and if she's not willing or able to do that, then above effort would be pointless.

-K

[Ignot]

I agree with Spungirl. You two have grown up together and you aren't the same people you were 6 years ago. Sounds like she has told you what the problem is, probably for a long time, and you have not done anything about it. Step up and give her what she wants. There is nothing fun about waking up and going to work and coming home to watch your husband play Gemstone all day. Give her the adventure she wants.

And you know what, it still may not be enough but at least you can end that marriage saying you tried everything you could to make it work. It is my opinion that these are the types of things that make you grow as a person and if you don't learn from your relationships then the next relationship is not going to work either.

it is hard on both of you. You can't be together with someone for 6 years if there wasn't love involved. I hope you guys can work it out. Good luck.

[The Ponzzz]

I been there, I too, got married way too young. The one thing you two have that I don't is the no kids situation. I happen to have a son with my ex wife.

She's starting to feel old or she feels she missed out on her youth. She'll say it's not you, but thats because she feels guilt of wanting this. Believe me, I went through many hours of state funded counseling concerning this exact thing when I wanted to save my marriage.

She wants change, and unless you are willing to give her that fun change she wants, she will need to experience it for herself.

Now if it really isn't you, and it's her, and you were willing to make any changes, then well it's the fact she wants the single title. There is no way around that at all until she's out of it.

But when things are said, "no it's not you, it's me." is always a guilt phrase. She's most likely already gone or had some adventure and tasted the fun. Hate to say that like that, I'd hate to hear someone say that to me. But one counselor and 2 marriage moderators later, I been down this road.

[Sylvan Dreams]

See, we skipped those wonderful 20s years of casual relationships and adventure, and settled down early. We own a house outside of DC, we both don't want kids, and we both have jobs we love. Now, she wants adventure...hell, she's always wanted adventure...but I'm a boring guy. Best adventure I've given her was some lame camping trips and such. She wants to find out "who she really is" and thinks that being around me is not the way to find that out.


Are these her words/thoughts/feelings or do you just think that they are? Has she specifically said that she wants a more 'adventurous' life? She is the only one that can give you answers - and she may not want to. She might already know to some degree what he's looking for and might just be scared to tell you.

Without getting into it too much, in my own opinion, mind how much space you give her. Too much space is a bad thing. Women tend to analyze things - including inaction. We have this amazing capability of being able to convince ourselves of just about anything given the time. Your complacency could be taken as a sign that you're in agreement with her.

Remember also that 'boring' is a matter of perspective. What one person finds 'adventurous' another may find shallow and superficial.

To make a long story short: talk to her! If you think you'll forget things you want to say, write them down before you talk to her.

[The Ponzzz]

What Sylvan Dreams and Spungirl said is very wise.

Get yourself a counselor if she's willing.

[TheEschaton]

See, the PC can be helpful, when people respect the OP. ;)

I'm a big person for not changing the essentials of who you are for another person. But I've never been in a relationship for longer than 8 months, personally. I feel that if you start to change your core for someone to make them happy, pretty soon you're the one who isn't happy.

Sit down, tell her what you just said - you love her, but this is who you are, but you will support her in whatever decision she wants - that's all you ever wanted, for her to be happy.

If she's not happy with you, then that's her own thing. You can compromise in a marriage on certain things - putting the seat down, cooking vs. washing dishes, laundry, etc - the logistics of living with someone who has different habits - but you can't suddenly "be" adventurous. You'd probably hate it.

-TheE-

[Ignot]

No matter what, you should always give it to her really hard in the bedroom just in case it is the last time. Take out all your frustration etc. That usually sends a good message.

[Ignot]

You can compromise in a marriage on certain things - putting the seat down, cooking vs. washing dishes, laundry, etc -

-TheE-

Don't tell women this, then they will expect it!

[Jazuela]

I'm not understanding why she has to leave you to get her "youthful adventures" in. Does she have friends, a sister, cousins, who'd like to travel? There's nothing wrong with seperate vacations and in fact I -highly- recommend them. Hubby gets to hang around the house or go golfing with his buddies, while wifey-pooh is sailing the Aegean for two weeks with her sister or best friends. Then you switch, and hubby goes on a fishing adventure with his buddies while wifey-pooh stays home and feeds the cats.

It seems reasonable to me, though not "traditional," but there's no law that says you have to live a "traditional" married life and it certainly isn't the only way to be happy.

[The Ponzzz]

Most the time adventures = single title. Because they already exhasuted the friends, sisters, cousins part.

Also, taking a healthy break is good. As long as it's a break, and not going to have sex with everyone and their brother(sisters too).

My ex wife wanted dick, and unfortunately not mine.

[Sylvan Dreams]

See, the PC can be helpful, when people respect the OP. ;)

I'm a big person for not changing the essentials of who you are for another person. But I've never been in a relationship for longer than 8 months, personally. I feel that if you start to change your core for someone to make them happy, pretty soon you're the one who isn't happy.

Sit down, tell her what you just said - you love her, but this is who you are, but you will support her in whatever decision she wants - that's all you ever wanted, for her to be happy.

If she's not happy with you, then that's her own thing. You can compromise in a marriage on certain things - putting the seat down, cooking vs. washing dishes, laundry, etc - the logistics of living with someone who has different habits - but you can't suddenly "be" adventurous. You'd probably hate it.

-TheE-

I somewhat disagree with this.

People change over time - including their 'inner core' of who they are. Part of a successful relationship isn't making changes to yourself FOR the other person, but making sure that your respective changes promote joint growth and happiness.

[Zarli]

I dont agree with the statment "dont change for anyone else" or whatever it is. Maybe you dont need to change FOR them, but aren't we supposed to grow and not stay static? Just maybe you'll enjoy doing some of the things she wants to do. Doesn't she sit at home with you? Watch movies, play games maybe, read, who knows. That's compromise on her part from what I've read.. so you compromising to find a little more adventure shouldn't be too much to ask if you want to grow together, save the marriage.

Part of me wants to say I have to agree that maybe she's already gone out and found some adventure on her own since it's come to the "it's not you its me" statement and maybe it is too late, but it wont hurt to try. Even if it's just for yourself and your next relationship, you should find something besides work and home to enjoy.

[SpunGirl]

- but you can't suddenly "be" adventurous. You'd probably hate it.

I've got to disagree here. Jake told me once that before we met, he never gave much thought to travel. Now, we constantly plan trips together - because it's something I like to do, and something that once he tried, he discovered he liked as well. Travelling might not be part of who he was before, but I think all of us would be pretty boring if we didn't occasionally try things that aren't "us" and end up liking them anyway.

-K

[TheEschaton]

That's cause you're all women. ;)

-TheE-

[Revalos]

This is exactly what I needed to hear...experiences.

We just had a really long talk here. It started with her saying that she's making the assumption that the marriage is over. But she did admit that she probably never loved me, nor did she believe that she would ever do so. I can't accept that...I know that she loved me at some points along the line of our relationship...but she can't remember them now. She wants to go out in the world and see if she can find love. The reason she sprung this on me after I came back from my trip is that she wished I wouldn't have come back. Basically...she doesn't want to go to counseling, she just wants to get out. I don't know how the whole divorce thing works, but we've agreed that as soon as she finds an apartment, she'll give it three months of separation to see if she can find a way to make this work, but if not, we'll go ahead and end it.

Let me go after some of the statements y'all have made and see if the catharsis here is working:

You've probably essentially lost her already, but she may well be loathe to give up the sweet sugar daddy ride, too. -Tolwynn

Yeah, I bet I lost her a long time ago and the only reason that she's stuck it out this long is that she liked the princess treatment. But I don't want that to be the reason that she comes back.


Meh, I'm a big believer in trying to save marriages unless there are huge issues of infidelity or abuse. I can understand what she's feeling, I've had similar feelings in the past - but I love my husband too much to up and leave. If I were you, I would stop being complacent, and start giving her no excuse to look outside the marriage for adventure and fun. Take a vacation abroad. Encourage her to go back to school. Ask her to specify how she thinks she's going to find herself (besides leaving you) and then help her make it happen. -SpunGirl

I'm a big believer in saving things like this too...however, she is not. She's ready to go...I can tell. I've been complacent waaaaay too long, I never wanted to rock the boat and now I have to pay the price. She's very subtle in her hints...she never even gave me the inkling that something this big was going down. I think that in fairness I should have at least had some kind of verbal warning that if I don't shape suchandsuch up, this is over...but I think there is very little I can do now, am I right?


And you know what, it still may not be enough but at least you can end that marriage saying you tried everything you could to make it work. It is my opinion that these are the types of things that make you grow as a person and if you don't learn from your relationships then the next relationship is not going to work either. - Ignot

That's one of the words she used tonight...grow. She thinks that staying with me won't allow her to grow into who she really is. She thinks I am holding her back. She's probably right. She never learned to drive because she never needed to...I always drove. And the one time I tried to teach her (in a non-airbagged 93 Explorer) she freaked me out so bad I couldn't handle it. Neither of us have done any growing...I'm still the same nerdy fat guy I was when I met her, and she's still the bookish beauty. This will be a growing experience, I just hope during our separation she may see value in growing together.

Believe me, I went through many hours of state funded counseling concerning this exact thing when I wanted to save my marriage. - The Ponzzz

Idle curiousity, but this is a requirement for divorce...that both parties agree to it right? I want to save this, but I know she wants out...and I want what is best for her. How far should I go to try and save this? Where do I draw the line before this whole thing gets messy?

Now if it really isn't you, and it's her, and you were willing to make any changes, then well it's the fact she wants the single title. There is no way around that at all until she's out of it. -The Ponzzz

I think there is a lot of truth in that statement. I overextended myself in every way possible for her. I wash dishes, I take out the trash, I keep track of the finances. She cooks. If she ever had told me that I had to do XXXXX I would do it in a heartbeat. I never heard a word. I think she wants to be single. She's a hottie, and there are guys lining up at the job she has to get a piece of the action, she's admitted that herself. I on the other hand am a fat somewhat techie geek. I've got nothing and she knows it. I needed her a lot more than she needed me. She said specifically that she wants love (attraction, the butterflies, etc...) and that she's never loved me (which I still disagree with.)


Without getting into it too much, in my own opinion, mind how much space you give her. Too much space is a bad thing. Women tend to analyze things - including inaction. We have this amazing capability of being able to convince ourselves of just about anything given the time. Your complacency could be taken as a sign that you're in agreement with her. -Sylvan Dreams

So, what should I do that won't make me look like a stalker when we are separated? Or should I do something before then? I just bought her an expensive gift...that I was sure she'd love, but that didn't do jack.


If she's not happy with you, then that's her own thing. You can compromise in a marriage on certain things - putting the seat down, cooking vs. washing dishes, laundry, etc - the logistics of living with someone who has different habits - but you can't suddenly "be" adventurous. You'd probably hate it. -TheEschaton

Word. I can't suddenly be adventurous...I am who I am and she knows that...I think that's why she thinks that this is over. She basically said tonight that waited 6 years for me to change into someone she loved, and it never happened. She's giving up on change. She feels like her purpose on earth is to find love, and if she doesn't attempt it, she'll have failed.

I'm sure this thing has a maximum text limit...so I'll continue responses from page 2. You guys rock by the way...this is helping me a great deal.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Do NOT let her move out without a separation agreement. One that is drawn up by a lawyer, signed by the both of you and notarized. It may sound callous, but protect yourself. No one else will.

Divorce and separation are different in every states. In my home state, an uncontested divorce takes a year, minimum. In the state that I currently live in, you can get divorced in a matter of days if you're willing to lie a bit on paper. Each state has its own requirements for divorce and separation - my current state considers the married couple separated if they're living in the same house as long as they haven't had sex. Do your research. Get a lawyer and get a free consultation immediately. Go to the lawyer with all your questions prewritten so you will make the most of his/her time.

So far in all your posts, Revalos, you haven't addressed the 'adventure' she's looking for. What does she mean by that, exactly? Does she want to explore her sexuality? Does she want to do heavy adrenaline rush inducing activities like parachuting? What does "adventure" mean?

As far as things you can do during the separation, I know that some people believe "absence makes the heart grow fonder", but I am of the firm belief that out of sight is out of mind. Try to do the things that you used to do but no longer do. Try 'dating' her again. Think back on all the old things you used to do and try them again - they obviously worked to some degree.

The most important thing is communication. Try to get her to open up to you.

I hate to be the one to point this out, but since no one else has so far. . .the speed at which all this is taking place sets off a red flag to me that she might be having an affair on you. People don't suddenly wake up one day and decide they want more 'adventure'. If she was REALLY unhappy for all that time, she had a responsibility to let you know of her unhappiness. Only she can really tell you what would make her happy.

[TheEschaton]

Man, good luck. The coming months I'm sure will be difficult, but you'll make it through.

[Revalos]

No matter what, you should always give it to her really hard in the bedroom just in case it is the last time. Take out all your frustration etc. That usually sends a good message.

That's probably one of my bigger issues. I'm rather boring in the sack. I've mixed it up a bit here and there...but I'm just not good at sex.

WARNING: SHOCKING CONFESSION AHEAD

BTW, I've never had sex with anyone else but my wife. Yes, we did it before we got married...but never with anyone else.

END WARNING

If I get another chance...which I doubt (I went in for a kiss earlier today and got a hug instead), I'm going to make the last one count.

I'm not understanding why she has to leave you to get her "youthful adventures" in. Does she have friends, a sister, cousins, who'd like to travel? - Jazuela

Here's the thing. We have no friends. Really. I mean we have friends that we work with and occasionally hang out with...but no real dependable friends. We've become very isolated. I think adventure was the wrong word when I used it earlier...it is part of the issue...but excitement is the real key...and I'm not an exciting guy.

I dont agree with the statment "dont change for anyone else" or whatever it is. Maybe you dont need to change FOR them, but aren't we supposed to grow and not stay static? - Zarli

That's probably the overarching problem. I haven't grown up. Neither has she. She wants to go and grow up and see who she really is. I've got through life scot free of life lessons. I avoided conflict, I planned ahead, and I made my life easy. She's tired of easy living. She wants to see what "life" is about. I guess I understand, but I like easy living...and I don't see how I can make that change, or find a way to meet her halfway.

Travelling might not be part of who he was before, but I think all of us would be pretty boring if we didn't occasionally try things that aren't "us" and end up liking them anyway. -SpunGirl

Yep...I just haven't done anything to further that goal. Sure, I bought a house, I took a theoretically demanding job, but I've suffered no hardship. That's where the boredom is from. We've taken some crazy trips back a while ago...we travelled all of Europe with nothing but backpacks, but I had a credit card that my parents paid back then, we bought a house...but it was well within our price range...I'm risk averse. That's what she doesn't love...she wants excitement, and I don't know how to give her that.

[Revalos]

So far in all your posts, Revalos, you haven't addressed the 'adventure' she's looking for. What does she mean by that, exactly? Does she want to explore her sexuality? Does she want to do heavy adrenaline rush inducing activities like parachuting? What does "adventure" mean? -Sylvan Dreams

I think she wants casual relationships...excitement of the chase and flirting. I think that's exactly what she wants and it also easily explains why I can't give it to her. But she can't tell me what she wants more than that she wants "love" and doesn't know if she'll find it out there...but she is pretty sure she won't find it here.

I'll get to work on the separation agreement. We've had a verbal agreement this evening, so there shouldn't be any issues there but I'll find a lawyer to draw up the documentation.

hate to be the one to point this out, but since no one else has so far. . .the speed at which all this is taking place sets off a red flag to me that she might be having an affair on you. -Sylvan Dreams

Thought did cross my mind...but she's been veeeeery honest with me today about everything, and I think I'd know if she had someone else already. I asked her if there was someone else and she said no.

If she was REALLY unhappy for all that time, she had a responsibility to let you know of her unhappiness. Only she can really tell you what would make her happy. -Sylvan Dreams

I think the depression did this. I don't think she's ever been happy in her entire life, and has no concept of it. All she knows is that she isn't happy right now and doesn't think she will ever be truly happy unless she is in love.

[Daniel]

lol

[Sylvan Dreams]

Revalos, I don't know if this is how you really feel, but your posts have a tone of resignated acceptance. Hell if you bore yourself, and it's sounding like that's the case, why not do something?

You're a techie/book guy you said? Great. Google is your friend. So is the library. Read on romantic things you can do. Buy a kama sutra book, bookmark anything you find interesting, ask her to do the same. Or sit down and go through the book together. Then *gasp* try it. Be a little random, be a little fun. Be playful. If it means driving to a bar separately, pretending to be strangers and 'picking her up' then DO IT instead of sitting here posting about how boring you are. Get that 1001 Ways to be Romantic book, or any other book like that and look for ideas.

Also, let her SEE the things that you're reading and trying. Let her know that you're fighting for her.

If you're a techie guy, approach it logically. If you've never used Windows Vista before and you suddenly have a computer, what's the first thing you do? If you said "try fumbling through it without help" then you got the right answer. But, you've tried that approach. Now it's time to call in outside help.

[Tolwynn]

Now it's time to call in outside help.

Fair chance that she's already beaten him to that punch.

[Mr. Dallas]

Well, sorry to hear about what you're going through.

The only opinion I'll add onto here is about being apart to "sort things out". In my own personal experience, I did this for oh . . .48 hours (got my stuff, moved out), then realized what an idiot I was and asked for a second chance. Thankfully, I got it and things have never been better 10 years later. If the "break" is longer than that - then yah, outta sight, outta mind.

You guys have 6 years vested in the relationship, but no children. It really could be worse - and if she doesn't love you (enough to be in a committed relationship) then don't waste anymore of your time - life is *too* short - find some happiness again.

D.

[Ignot]

[i]
(I went in for a kiss earlier today and got a hug instead)

Oooooh that's not good. Your only hope is to convince her friends to be on your side. Oh in case you didnt know, her chicken ass single/unhappy friends are filling her head with all kinds of shit. Try a black chick for your next girl. They are perfect.

[Lianon]

Word. I can't suddenly be adventurous...I am who I am and she knows that...I think that's why she thinks that this is over. She basically said tonight that waited 6 years for me to change into someone she loved, and it never happened. She's giving up on change. She feels like her purpose on earth is to find love, and if she doesn't attempt it, she'll have failed.

Just a few observations. Regarding her waiting around for six years for you to change. Unless you're a mega millionaire with Tiffany boxes coming in every week, six years is a long time to WAIT on someone they don't love to change into something they do. I'd say that's a line of BS. Chances are, you're right on with thinking that she loved you at some point.

Another thing, anybody who asks you to change so much so that they're happy doesn't love you for who you are and never will. It's not much help, but I'm not buying the "I didn't love you" BS.

[Ignot]

You both changed since you have been together and if you want to stay that way you both gotta work at changing. Little things go a long way. My guess is she gave you plenty of time and nothing happened so she is leaving. Also, did you ever express what things she needs to change on? Gotta be the roster or women will leave so if she is asking for change you need to be asking for change from her.

[SpunGirl]

I agree, Revalos - protect yourself. Especially if she's making significantly less than you. The fact that she's moving out is good - from what I understand, that pretty much guarantees you the house because she's basically abandoned the premises. From what you've said, it sounds like she's made up her mind and wants to make this as painless as possible (for her). I can't agree with that approach, but shit happens.

-K

[Gan]

Got married at 23 myself. I've been through the 7 year itch as well as the mid-life crisis thing, waited 9 years to have children, did the travel thing, school thing, etc. (still married and yes, we're best friends as well, we celebrate 14 years this year). I've been through similar to what you're experiencing but got lucky and was able to turn it around.

Lots of good advice here, for the most part I agree the most with Spungirl (good advice there). Count yourself lucky, usually threads asking for advice about personal matters (especially relationships) turn out to be a trainwreck. :yes:

I'm not a huge believer in divorce; but I do know that it takes two to make it work. If she's not willing to work for it, then at some point you're going to have to let her go. Just make sure you protect yourself, since no one else will (ie. consult an attorney).

[The Ponzzz]

Idle curiousity, but this is a requirement for divorce...that both parties agree to it right? I want to save this, but I know she wants out...and I want what is best for her. How far should I go to try and save this? Where do I draw the line before this whole thing gets messy?

Yes, the judge will order you to it as long as you both are agreeing.

Concerning the sex life part...

She had MANY years to think about that, and yes, while she is your first and only it will make you feel inexperienced, she needed to bring something up to you.

But it sounds like you've lost your confidence in this whole matter, and believe me, I did too (you are asking for outside help). But do NOT let her know that you doubt your self and are kinda agreeing to losing her. Stay strong, regardless.

[Sean of the Thread]

Let her go and move on x2.

[Revalos]

You guys kick ass...I'll let y'all know if Players Corner saved a marriage. Hell, I'll get you all T-shirts that say that if this works out. Regardless, you guys are better than any $500 an hour counselor.

So, I've decided to not go to work tommorrow, it is one of her days off too. I think we talked ourselves tired tonight...but I got stronger...and I think I'm gaining ground. I'm fine with her visiting her mom for a week (she has to fly down there so she can't extend it), but I'm going to try to talk her out of getting an apartment...if not, then I'll get the paperwork started. I think I'm beginning to see what is going on in her head...and I did get her to agree that she loved me at some point (and that she still loves me...but not in a sexual way). I'm going to work on the sex part too...now I know she's a fucking kinky freak after some talking tonight...that's going to be a bit hard for Mr. Whitebread Revalos, but I think I might like it.

Thanks again you guys...and any more advice that comes to mind...post it, I'm sure I'll need it!

[The Ponzzz]

While she's at her mom's house, go get some rope, a dildo and some lube.

[Hips]

vibrators > dildos.

Good luck with everything, though. Start small if you want to stop being so "whitebread," even one of those cheapo $5 vibrating cockrings you can get from any drugstore will spice things up a bit.

[The Ponzzz]

Jessa... You're too fragile and innocent looking to know about those cockrings...

[TheEschaton]

Sex isn't difficult to be good at. Just have an insatiable desire to know every single inch of her. The rest pretty much writes itself.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

Dude. She's clearly banging somebody new. Been down this road before though just with g/f not wives.

Make sure you keep ahold of everything you want after the divorce. It's hella easier to give something back than to get it from her if she has it.

Also you may think about hiring a PI. If you can prove her infidelity the divorce will go hugely in your favor. Don't let this chick clean you out.

Jessa loves nerdy guys and sugar daddy's.

[Ignot]

Jessa loves nerdy guys

whats her phone number?

[Celephais]

vibrators > dildos.

Good luck with everything, though. Start small if you want to stop being so "whitebread," even one of those cheapo $5 vibrating cockrings you can get from any drugstore will spice things up a bit.

Just making sure this doesn't go anywhere...

[The Ponzzz]

LMAO

[Apotheosis]

pimp hand.....pimp hand......

[Gan]

...now I know she's a fucking kinky freak after some talking tonight...

This makes me wonder, because you just dont wake up one morning and discover that you're a kinky freak. This is either something inate (born with) or something that you were introduced to. I can understand if she was romance starved, but not kink starved (if not having been introduced to it).

Did I read right (earlier posts of yours) that you two were pretty much new to the sex role when you started seeing her/married her? Was she a kink then? If not, how did she get introduced to it all of a sudden? Does she watch pron? If she does, you might consider breaking out the videos and costumes (;)). If not, then that means that someone else has introduced her to it. And that could be a problem (I think skeeter hit on that idea).

Some food for thought. (Since you're in DC, there should be loads of attorneys to consult)

Also, since you're in DC, dont let Backlash try to be your relationship coach. He's not Hitch. :whistle:

[Gan]

vibrators > dildos.

Good luck with everything, though. Start small if you want to stop being so "whitebread," even one of those cheapo $5 vibrating cockrings you can get from any drugstore will spice things up a bit.

the rabbit FTMFW

[Revalos]

Did I read right (earlier posts of yours) that you two were pretty much new to the sex role when you started seeing her/married her? Was she a kink then? If not, how did she get introduced to it all of a sudden? Does she watch pron? If she does, you might consider breaking out the videos and costumes (). If not, then that means that someone else has introduced her to it. And that could be a problem (I think skeeter hit on that idea). -Ganalon

Almost right. She had sex with at least two guys in college before she met me, but I doubt it was kinky. I'm the prude who hadn't done it until I met her. Her real father (from her mom's first marriage) was abusive (at least to her mom, I don't think she was abused), so that may be where her innate BDSM needs come from. She has rape fantasies and such, but I just couldn't imagine doing that kind of stuff until now. She's bought several vibrators online...generally just the normal kind, but we've never used them during sex. I'll think about the cockring thing...although my attempts at getting to her last night didn't work out, I think she's too emotional to be interested in sex. I'm not going to get arrested for "raping" her or have that show up in divorce proceedings, even if it is what she probably really wants.

So anyway, she's pretty much dead set on getting an apartment, she's actually going to go see one today after she talks to her work friends downtown, so I called up a Separation Agreement attorney this morning too to get the paperwork started.

She is sounding like she isn't interested in taking anything of value with her. Not even the bed. She's got knicknacks that she wants, but other than that and some tea set stuff, I doubt she will take much. But you guys are right in thinking that it is better to get all this stuff in writing first before making any sudden changes. We're still going to stick with the 3 month timeline to make final decisions, then we'll have 9 months to finalize the divorce if it goes that way. Does that sound like a good plan?

[Gan]

Does that sound like a good plan?
Yep.

[Skeeter]

sounds like you're on the right track. GL

[Gan]

Remember, if she comes running back 8 months from now with a bun in the oven deciding that she really did love you (your money); I'd advise getting a paternity test done first.

[Revalos]

Remember, if she comes running back 8 months from now with a bun in the oven deciding that she really did love you (your money); I'd advise getting a paternity test done first. -Ganalon

I wouldn't need a paternity test. She went off Birth Control to see if that helped with depression, so it has been condom only sex (what little there has been) since then. I'd know it was someone else's. But she really really really doesn't want kids (she has 7 siblings and she was the oldest and her mom was a druggie), so I'd be shocked enough to see her pregnant.

[Sean]

You could always kick her in the stomach... that'd help with your baby issues and your probable pent up rage.

And who knows she might be into it..

[DeV]

I haven't read all the other responses so forgive me if I restate something that's already been stated.

From reading your original post it's easy for me to see that she is lacking one of the single most important things that usually results in a wife straying from the relationship; passion. It's hugely important, even if you think your life is almost perfect and neither of you want for anything. If the passion is non-existent the relationship is sure to follow.

I wish you the best Revalos. Seems like you've gotten a lot of quality responses out of this so far. Protect yourself on paper, like others have stated, because at this point you need to start doing what is in your best interest especially if her mind is already made up.

[Revalos]

If the passion is non-existent the relationship is sure to follow. -DeV

Yep, I definately see that now. We've gotten so comfortable, passion has disappeared. I'm going to work on getting it back and I've got a couple ideas. But as other posters have said...it is a difficult road, I've got to be prepared for all eventualities.

[Tolwynn]

She may really really not want kids, but if she's off the birth control, be very very careful. Women almost invariably get the kids in a divorce, and that'll stick you for child support on top of the alimony. And in the long term, you get to worry on how much coming from a broken home will screw up the child as well.

[Thalisa]

From reading your original post it's easy for me to see that she is lacking one of the single most important things that usually results in a wife straying from the relationship; passion. It's hugely important, even if you think your life is almost perfect and neither of you want for anything. If the passion is non-existent the relationship is sure to follow.


I have to agree on this.

She wasn't waiting to fall in love with you; she was waiting to fall back in love with you.

You said you took her backpacking and other things where you went out and did stuff rather than going through the grind every day? That's what she's looking for. A little spice, a little break from the monotony, a little effort to grow together in your relationship.

If you want to win her back, my suggestion would be to woo her the way you did when you first started dating and keep the momentum rather than dropping the ball this time.

However, only do it if you can really be the man she fell in love with initially. If that was just a short term thing to "win" her, let her go. It'll be better for everyone in the long run. Find someone who loves you for the boring, techie geek you are. :)

[Trouble]

IMO, it sounds like it's already over. I doubt any amount of counseling will help at this point. Even if it temporarily resolves and she agrees to stay I don't think she could be trusted any longer. You'd basically have to either agree to let her date other men or have the both of you get into the swingers/bsdm scene for her to be interested enough to stay.

Definitely watch yourself and don't do anything stupid (like the rape fantasy issue you mentioned coming back to haunt you) and remember that condoms aren't 100% effective, especially if you're experimenting with 'kinky' stuff. I like the PI idea too and be aware she may try to get one on you too so don't get tempted yourself until it's legally safe.

Also, if it really is/was a sugar daddy type relationship (which fits well with a depressive btw), buying vacations (either for the two of you or for her to go with some friends) just reinforces the cycle that money=love. Bad idea. Even the hypothetical semi-happy ending of you guys getting divorced but then she wants you back in three years once she realizes how much she loved you (how good she had it) is not really a happy ending at all.

Sorry to be such an optimist.

[Kefka]

Sounds like she's checking to see if the grass is greener. I suggest you work on an exit strategy. Instead of focusing on how to get her to come back, you should weigh in on what you liked/disliked about your marriage. Change is good, but don't change for her. Change for yourself. In the end, you have to be happy with you before you care about how others feel.

Unfortunate thing about separations... they work when the married couple just aren't getting along and they need some time apart. They almost never work when one is checking to see if they can find love. It's a prelude to divorce.

[Khariz]

I don't have anything terribly productive to add to this conversation. I did, however, have to check four or five times to make sure I really was at PC. I'm delighted by the generally civil and helpful responses here.

I've been with my wife for a little over 8 years now. We met in college, lived together for four years, and have now been married for four years.

There was a time about 2 years into our relationship where I think we had something somewhat similar occur. She was the little Latina hottie, and I was the semi-fat white nerd. She wanted an exciting life (and was having baby fever) and I was the boring guy who wanted things to happen the way I had planned them (finish school first, then get married, then have babies).

She brought up the whole "wanting some space" thing, and said she was probably going to leave for a few weeks to see how she felt. This struck a chord with me immediately. I've always been a highly skeptical guy, and pretty pessimistic too. I think of the worst in every situation. So what did I do? I just straight up told her, "Fine, you do whatever you feel like you need to do, but I'm going to tell you what. If you leave to 'have some space' for a few weeks, that's what the leaving is going to be for. If by 'have some space' you in any way mean 'try some other cock', then just go ahead and pack your shit up right now and leave, PERMANENTLY.

I had no idea where my sudden forcefulness came from. I was very adamant though. I was fine with her leaving, with her wanting to try some other dick, whatever. But I was very straightforward with her. If she truly wanted space, fine, but if she was leaving with the thought of "seeing other people", that was not fine.

Now here is where our relationship took an odd course, from which it has never wavered. She left right after that conversation, and pretty upset. I think she was shocked as hell that she had some to tell me what was up, and I end up telling *her* what was up. This was maybe 7pm at night. She came back home at about 2am, climbed into bed, kissed me, and went to sleep.

She never brought up needing space ever again, never seemed to have a problem with our relationship, and hardly ever complained about anything. I have no idea what went through her mind that night. We have never really talked about it, and she probably doesn't really remember it anyway (which I can explain, but is another story).

What happened *after* all this though, is something that might be more applicable here. Because of the argument, I now knew that she was not 100% happy, that she wanted more excitement, that she wanted her life to advance, and that she wanted more from me than just some assurance that things would work out.

About 6 months later, I finally got the balls to ask her to marry me. After we got engaged, I threw my incessant need to plan everything in my life out the window, and we began to engage in non-birth controlled sex, which as you might imagine, quickly turned into pregnancy. I still remember coming home one afternoon where my wife (then fiancée) and about 10 giggling sorority chicks are huddled around her fell silent as I walked through the door. They all filed out quickly, and my woman proceeds to tell me she's pregnant, scanning for reactions.

We got married, had a kid, I got a real job, we bought a house, a car for her, moved closed to her parents (ick) for babysitting help, etc, etc. I finished college right around the "got a real job" part, and though I had planned future schooling (Law School in particular), I decided that I would settle down and be dad and breadwinner instead, and resigned on some of my own future for the situation at the time.

As things progressed further though, and I realized that the law school an hour and a half away had a night school program (making law school 4 years instead of three, bleh), I decided to give it another chance. So here I am, 2 years of law school down, a 4 year old daughter, and a pretty happy wife, with a decent house, etc.

Why did I tell this completely unnecessary story? Because I wanted to point out that somewhere in there, I compromised. She may not have seen it that way. I have no idea. But what I did was take my whitebread, nerdy, completely planned, risk averse life, and turn it on its head for a while to attempt to save my relationship. Many times along the way I have both asked myself "What the fuck am I doing?" and thought to myself "I bet if I had to do it all over again, I would have made different choices". But as soon as I start to think that my four year old comes over, gives me a hug and tells me she loves me, and there's no way I could make another choice.

That said I can't nail down anything particular that YOU could do to have the same result. Our situations are substantially different in many regards. I do want to point out that I never changed "who I am" throughout all this mess. What I did was re-prioritize WHEN I thought WHAT was important. I always wanted to do the school, job, wife, house, car, kid, etc thing, but in that order, not in the one it has occurred in. By letting her have a few of the things in the timeline her way instead of mine, it completely changed our relationship. I'm not sure how that helps you though, so I'm sorry I wasted all this space.

[Celephais]

You could always kick her in the stomach... that'd help with your baby issues and your probable pent up rage.

And who knows she might be into it..

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/GuinnessKMF/pregnant.jpg

[Warriorbird]

I think I agree most with Sean2 out of all of this, Revalos. You're a good guy, man, I know it. I did all the "try to work things out" stuff too...she just wasn't trying. The "trip to see relatives or friends" might not have been just that either.

Take steps to end it. Be on the ball with the seperation agreement and all the steps of the divorce process. Don't give in on anything because you love her.

It took me a year...but I got my divorce...and now I have a tremendous sense of freedom. I feel like I've got a reload on the last several years of my life. Not a lot of people get that.

BTW, I don't think your life is as boring as you think it is.

[Atlanteax]

Revalos,

You need to protect yourself as several have described/advised how to.

It is my impression that likely had an affair (or has one, but is "on hold"), and is looking to get an apartment of her own so she can have the privacy and freedom to entertain suitors.

What may have been happening, is while you were gone on business trips, some other guy (or guys) have been courting her... along the lines of dinner out, movies, 2-day trip to a resort, theme park, rock climbing, etc... that gets her out of the house and experiencing something new and fun.

She may not had actual relations with other guys (yet), but it seems pretty apparent that she has been enjoying dating other guys while you were absent from home. And is now looking to have a place of her own, so she can take such relationships "to the next level".

.

You want to keep her, get her *out* of the house *with* you, a lot more often. Even if it is little things like movies or putt-putt, do whatever it takes to break the home-all-day routine. A "glamorious trap" (ie a cruise or a 4 day resort weekend) once a month or two will not do it... because she is bored with the other 26 days of the months.

.

If she is still insistent on getting her own place and doing things on her own instead... then it is very likely that there is a boyfriend in the picture that she is very interested in exploring a deeper (physical) relationship with.

.

So do yourself a favor... protect yourself... don't hedge any bets... *while* you are being more proactive about getting her *out* of the house to do recreational things *with* you.

[Gan]

http://www.legalzoom.com/

[Anebriated]

Go buy her some fluffy handcuffs or something kinky then stick it in her pooper. If she likes it then youve got the jackpot if not then at least you stuck it to her good before she left.

On a serious note figure out if shes worth it to you. I decided once that I didnt really want a long term relationship with a girl and spent the next year regretting ending the relationship. If she makes you happy then do what needs to be done to make things work. If not, it sucks for awhile but you'll be happier in the end.

[Skeeter]

I think BadTie means you should Hedge your bets.

To hedge a bet, to bet upon both sides; that is, after
having bet on one side, to bet also on the other, thus
guarding against loss.

[Revalos]

A lot of this is resonating with me. As I said earlier, we've never really had any good friends. But she's developed friends at work...and where she works she might as well be a fucking supermodel compared to the other women who work there. She's smart, young, good looking, and is obviously in a relationship that isn't providing her all the excitement she needs.

Those friends at work are likely responsible for her feelings of missing out on life. They are hard partiers and many of them are serial one-night-standers and love to brag about it. I think that's what she wants...and I'm going to do my best to give it to her. I'm going to take her out either tonight or tommorrow and we'll go out drinking and go to a club or something. We'll see if that starts reinvigorating her...or just makes her even more jealous that she's with a nerdy fat guy when there are studs all over the place. Either way, that is the way to figure out what is going down. I do really dislike the club scene in general, and I'm a fucking tea-totaller when it comes to drinking, but I think I need to give it a shot...if just to prove to her that I can do it.

I really don't think she's currently cheating on me. I have access to her phone records (I pay the bills so I see the numbers), her e-mail accounts (I know her passwords), and direct access to all the guys she knows (they work at the same bookstore chain). If she was, she is doing it with a pro who knows how to conceal just about everything. Or, she wouldn't have even brought any of this up, since I'd be completely oblivious to the whole thing and she'd be getting her dick from the other guy and money from me. I'm not on trips that often, and I know her work schedule. Good to keep my mind open to the possibility though, especially if she gets her own apartment...I can get a PI to start work while we are separated and if it is any of the guys she currently knows, I'll have some good ammo.

Maybe she is just looking for "some other cock" and will want to come back afterwards, I don't quite know how I'd feel about that. I want to say I'd tell her to GTFO, but at the same time, I've been with this girl for 9 years now...and married 6 of them. I don't want an open marriage, and neither does she.


BTW, I don't think your life is as boring as you think it is. -Warriorbird

Heh...that isn't the point is it? It is whether or not she thinks it is. She always asks if I have a hobby...which I really don't, then she buys me books that I usually don't read. She tried to get me involved in her religion (She's Asatru) but it is still too weird for me. I'm going to start with the hobby thing...I think I've got a good one to tell her. And I can start really paying attention to the books that she buys me, and maybe get a little closer to her religion.

[Sean]

Sounds like your wife has the ideal makings of a stripper/pornstar... possibly abused as a child, drug using parent, bored with whitebread revalos, need for exciting, young, good looking, needs more than 2k/mo for rent and living expenses, partying...

[Revalos]

Heh...expect to see the craigslist ad soon.

[TheEschaton]

She has RAPE fantasies, dude.

Bail, and quick.

[Artha]

There's nothing wrong with rape fantasies, often they're a reaction to having too much or too little power in whatever relationship you're in. They're normal and healthy, quit repressin'.

[The Ponzzz]

Asatru is very weird, I might add.

[TheEschaton]

I'm sorry, a woman fantasizing about being raped is not healthy, IMO. Have you ever met a woman who's been violently raped?

-TheE-

[Ignot]

The Everglades are good if you need to hide a body or two.

[Ignot]

I'm sorry, a woman fantasizing about being raped is not healthy, IMO. Have you ever met a woman who's been violently raped?

-TheE-

Maybe some women can clarify but aren't these fantasies pretty common?

[Hips]

I've HEARD that they are pretty common. I don't know about statistics or anything, though.

[Jorddyn]

I would imagine that the "rape fantasy" is more of a "forceable-but-not-really sex with someone you like/love/find attractive fantasy".

Rather large difference.

Jorddyn

[Artha]

Regardless, the presence of rape fantasies in a community or individual cannot be taken to imply that the fantasizers in reality condone rape, desire to rape others, or wish to be raped themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy

[Sean of the Thread]

You could always kick her in the stomach... that'd help with your baby issues and your probable pent up rage.

And who knows she might be into it..

I just had my first condom bust open full of hurricane xyelin with my wife this week... thanks for reminding me about the boot to the stomach routine in case I need it.

[Sean of the Thread]

Anyways back on topic. Make sure to enjoy the time away as much as she's going to. DATE... PARTY. Oh and get a P.I. to clock her out.. btw I'm licensed in Florida if you need it.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I really don't think she's currently cheating on me. I have access to her phone records (I pay the bills so I see the numbers), her e-mail accounts (I know her passwords), and direct access to all the guys she knows (they work at the same bookstore chain

Not to rain on the parade, but these are not surefire ways to detect cheating. A person can get a 'pay as you go' cell phone, without a contract. A person can also text message and receive an incoming call - whose number will not appear on the bill. She can always sign up for a hotmail, yahoo or other account.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I'm sorry, a woman fantasizing about being raped is not healthy, IMO. Have you ever met a woman who's been violently raped?

-TheE-

Rape and kidnapping fantasies are rather common, actually.

[Sylvan Dreams]

PS (for Revalos):

Do NOT under ANY circumstances issue an ultimatum with the hope that it will "wake her up" unless you are 100% going to follow through in either direction. She might call your bluff and take the exit.

[Sean of the Thread]

Not to rain on the parade, but these are not surefire ways to detect cheating. A person can get a 'pay as you go' cell phone, without a contract. A person can also text message and receive an incoming call - whose number will not appear on the bill. She can always sign up for a hotmail, yahoo or other account.

Paranoid much?

[Skeeter]

I was thinking experienced more than paranoid

[Gan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy

[Revalos]

OK...we just had a huge talk, and I think we're on equal terms now.

She's going to get an apartment because she wants to be single, independent, and in charge of her own life. She wants to get rid of the sugar daddy security blanket and do things herself. I think I've finally got to the point tonight where I can accept that.

She claims the sex thing is really minor (I still think it is big, but whatever, I'm a guy therefore sex=everything). She claims there is nothing I can do to make her change her mind, and even if I did, this whole thing would come crashing down much worse in a couple years.

A direct quote from her is that she isn't ruling out any possibility from this separation, either for divorce or for getting back together (although she still has to think divorce is more likely because thats the only way she can go through with this). But I know for a fact that she'll love it...so I'm really seeing this as the end...at least for a couple years as a lot of y'all have said. She claims that she would absolutely 100% know if this was the right thing to do within a year, but I doubt it. She's going to stick with the 3 month timeline for sure though.

Here's a concession she made tonight...during the separation, she is thinking about having a periodic meeting every few weeks with me for dinner or something. Is this a good idea or is this just asking for trouble?

Finally...what the hell do I do during all of this? I'm not a partyer, I don't have the partners she has lined up for fun casual sex. I'm going to just sit at home and sulk for this...for how long? I guess one big thing is that I think this will finally make me exercise more. I was fat when I met her, but I'm fucking huge now, I guess I'm going to try and see what I can lose and see if I can get back into the single life. I've got to move on and get with the single life program...it'll probably be good for me.

I really can't believe how cool this was to get this kind of great help from y'all. I was expecting a couple nuggets of good info interspersed with a lot of WTF posts, but instead I got a ton of valuable stuff, you guys are awesome!

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah very surprisingand nice how the PC came out on this one. I would have added something myself if I had any previous experience with divorce.

Beyond that I would hate to give the wrong advice for something like this.

[Daniel]

See you in Dupont.

[Gan]

Finally...what the hell do I do during all of this? I'm not a partyer, I don't have the partners she has lined up for fun casual sex. I'm going to just sit at home and sulk for this...for how long? I guess one big thing is that I think this will finally make me exercise more. I was fat when I met her, but I'm fucking huge now, I guess I'm going to try and see what I can lose and see if I can get back into the single life. I've got to move on and get with the single life program...it'll probably be good for me.

Join a gym, hook up with a personal trainer and work on shedding the weight and getting healthier (cardio/weights). Then find something outside of work that you would like to be active in. Community organization, church, WTFever has an interest that you like as a hobby. If you dont have one, GET ONE!!!

Just focus on you and dont dwell on what she's doing. Once you sign on the line, its over, done with. Move on with your life, cause she's doing the same. And remember, you make more bank than she does (remind yourself that every payday). So once you get fit, reward yourself with a new sportscar - fuck the hybrid and reward your hard work with something thats fun to drive around. Just focus on you for a change.

[Sylvan Dreams]

A direct quote from her is that she isn't ruling out any possibility from this separation, either for divorce or for getting back together (although she still has to think divorce is more likely because thats the only way she can go through with this). But I know for a fact that she'll love it...so I'm really seeing this as the end...at least for a couple years as a lot of y'all have said. She claims that she would absolutely 100% know if this was the right thing to do within a year, but I doubt it. She's going to stick with the 3 month timeline for sure though.

Here's a concession she made tonight...during the separation, she is thinking about having a periodic meeting every few weeks with me for dinner or something. Is this a good idea or is this just asking for trouble?

Finally...what the hell do I do during all of this? I'm not a partyer, I don't have the partners she has lined up for fun casual sex. I'm going to just sit at home and sulk for this...for how long? I guess one big thing is that I think this will finally make me exercise more. I was fat when I met her, but I'm fucking huge now, I guess I'm going to try and see what I can lose and see if I can get back into the single life. I've got to move on and get with the single life program...it'll probably be good for me.

Okay, so, in a year she decides that she made the wrong choice, and....what? She comes running back to you because your life was on hold waiting for this possibility? She wants to go on a date with you every few weeks? Why? To throw you enough of a bone that you're kept interested and waiting? Be firm. Make it clear that your life does not have a revolving door. Once she makes the choice to walk, that's it. She can't keep coming and going out of your life. It's not fair to you. Basically, she wants to have her adventure, but she wants you as her safety net to catch her should she fall on her face.

As an aside, what do you mean that SHE is not ruling out any possibilities? Why is SHE the one in control?

It's all nice and good that she wants to have sex with loads of people, but there's plenty of people out there who do NOT find that as an attractive quality in a person.

Good luck on the weight loss. I've lost 95 pounds total myself and have kept it off for almost a year now.

[SpunGirl]

If the timeline is three months until decision day, I think you should sever contact - totally - for at least the first month, and then try having dinner (not more than two hours) after that. If divorce is where this is headed, it wouldn't be a bad idea for either of you to get a good dose of what it'll really mean to have the other gone from your life.

Also, make her sign up for her own cell plan.

-K

[Tolwynn]

If you let her go off and have a months or year long fucking spree and then she comes back, she's going to know she can do anything she wants and that you'll cave and let her, all while on your nickel to boot.

Not to mention she could come back with a kid, a social disease, or who knows what else.

[The Ponzzz]

I would still do the paperwork. And get out there and rediscover who you are. I'm sure over the last 6 or so years you have been in a modified world that you weren't 100% happy in.

Don't think you need to go out and have sex. Go out and enjoy life without her for now. It sucks, it hurts, but don't get down.

Come to SimuCon and I'll buy ya a beer!

[Revalos]

Basically, she wants to have her adventure, but she wants you as her safety net to catch her should she fall on her face. -Sylvan Dreams

I keep thinking that is what this is really. She doesn't want me around, but she still likes the idea that I might still be there after this fling she has. I think the 3 months is enough for me to accept that. If we start the proceedings from that point, I think that is it. I can't see her coming back after telling me she wouldn't. She's taking this as a pride thing too...she wants to do things herself.

She's acknowledged that she's being a totally selfish bitch about all this, which is pretty much true. I've brought up several times about the good things that she's giving up and the pain it is causing me to do this crazy thing...but there's nothing stopping her, she really doesn't care what this does to me because this has to be about her. I think that's bullshit, and I've told her such, but that doesn't change anything.


As an aside, what do you mean that SHE is not ruling out any possibilities? Why is SHE the one in control? - Slyvan Dreams

I'm just stating what she said. She is in control of this whole thing...from beginning to end. I never wanted any of this but now I have to deal with it. I get your point though.


If the timeline is three months until decision day, I think you should sever contact - totally - for at least the first month, and then try having dinner (not more than two hours) after that. If divorce is where this is headed, it wouldn't be a bad idea for either of you to get a good dose of what it'll really mean to have the other gone from your life. -SpunGirl

The way I see it, if things are moving at the speed I think they are (as in, I think that by July 15th or even earlier, she'll be moved out, there will be about a month before I go on my 3 week overseas trip. Then after that would be another chance, then we'd get the last one at the end of the three months. Once a month should be just about right.


If you let her go off and have a months or year long fucking spree and then she comes back, she's going to know she can do anything she wants and that you'll cave and let her, all while on your nickel to boot. -Tolwynn

I really don't think that is what this is all about. I'm sure that is part of it...and it is the part that really pisses me off the most, but I really think it is more about her learning who she is. If she is a casual sex freak, then I probably am lucky to get rid of her now, off my nickel, than I would to find it out later. She won't come back for money...she's got too much pride. Good call on the STDs though, if she does come back after this 3 month thing, definately going to get some tests done.

A year is the big question...that is a damn long time but I'm just very skeptical that she'll learn anything other than the annoyances of having to leave a marriage, 3 months is not long enough to determine if single life is better than married life. That's what keeps me thinking that this is really all just a stopgap in the divorce process, that she knows this and wants out, but is trying her best to not hurt me or hurt her pride.


Don't think you need to go out and have sex. Go out and enjoy life without her for now. It sucks, it hurts, but don't get down. -ThePonzzz

I doubt I'll hold off my life for this. If after the three months she isn't coming back I plan to go to Vegas (somewhere she said she'd never want to go ever) and do some serious gambling. Then, if she does want to come back, I'll have had a similar time to her and we can make a mutual decision one way or the other. Sex isn't that big of a deal to me unless there is love involved, but who knows what will happen.

Here's a question though...when should I bring this up to my parents and such. Her parents already know, but they don't talk to my parents, and my parents are such prudes they'd probably freak out if I told them this right now. I figure I can wait until after the 3 month period and then let them know.

[SpunGirl]

Be up front with your parents right now, for one. Tell them that you've tried everything to make her stay, but that she's dead-set on moving out for three months and that there's nothing you can do. Don't be afraid to go for the sympathy on this, but make sure you don't make her look TOO bad - if you do get back together, you don't want your parents hating her forever.

If you come to Vegas and want to gamble, PM me. I can teach you some awesome gamling tricks:P

Finally, what Mario said. If you want a little strange, go to Simucon - it might not be top quality, but you have to try hard NOT to have sex there.

-K

[Satira]

You can easily find another lady to sit at home and watch movies with you if you like to be boring.

It sounds like she's going to do exactly what she wants, anyway. Don't waste your energy on someone who isn't going to work with you.

AND DEFINITELY COME TO SIMUCON!

[StrayRogue]

Hmmm. I very recently had something similar happen to me with my 3.5 year relationship. I'm 24 and she is 22. So while there isn't a large age issue, problems arise because my gf is still in university whereas I graduated, over a year ago. Basically I know what the cruel, cold world of adulthood is like. She does not.

Anyway, every year she goes and does something like Camp America, or RADA or digs in Peru etc. These things last upwards of 3 - 4 months. I find this to be very painful at times, though I am pretty much self reliant. To cut a long story short she thought I was resentful of her "freedom" and her zest for "adventure". Perhaps she is right. Now that I work for a living I cannot simply pack up and go off for months on end, whereas she is a student and is afforded the freedom to go off and do mad shit like this.

From my perspective I am fearful that she thinks life is ALWAYS going to be fun and games like this. I often take the high road of "you're going to get a shock when you graduate". Plus I am so protective of her. It is not nice being told that local tribes are cannibals, or that some kid got eaten by a snake. I find myself dying to bundle her up in a bubble so that nothing can harm her. I imagine this seems overprotective, possibly even sexist, but I cannot deny it.

Basically a lot of these things went uncommunicated for a long time until the week prior to her recent trip to America, when everything came to a head and we discussed our feelings. At the end of the day she said she loved me, however she cannot go through life with me resenting the opportunities she is given. And she is right. We resolved to stay together and try to accept each other's view's on such things. I cannot stop her going off to do these things. Were I to try, I'd simply push her away farther.

Perhaps this has nothing to do with your own issue's Revalos. Indeed being married and living together adds a greater degree of complication compared to my own current situation. What I have learned though is that you can't and shouldn't stop people you love from doing the things they want or need to do. If you really love your wife you have to let her do her thing. If she leaves you, take solace in the fact that she is hopefully doing so that she can be happier in the long run. It's hard, it's shit, but that's the way life is.

If she fucks around, and I too don't think that has something to do with this, that is a different story. That is a breaking of trust and I would kick her to the curb, as I'm sure she would you were things reversed.

Good luck man.

[Kefka]

Walk away. I know it's hard but just walk away. I got married young (20), did the on again, off again thing. Can finally say I'm happily divorced. You have to stop being the nice, dependable guy. She made her intentions clear. Everything is on the table including sex. Walk away. Even if you two manage to get back together, the trust will be gone. You can tell yourself that you can try to make this work, but everything will change. Without trust as the foundation, there is no relationship.

I know it's hard to hear. I'm sure you never imagined going through life without the woman you married. I'll be honest with you, it's gonna hurt. It's gonna hurt for awhile. But it will end alot sooner when you're ready to move on. She wants to be single, grant her wish.

[Clove]

That's a heartrending situation. I agree with Spungirl marriages ARE worth fighting for but ONLY if both people are fighting. Unfortunately it sounds like your wife may already have a "quit" mindset.

I think that you should focus on what YOU'RE willing to live with. It's very easy to get into a situation where you're trying to appease to the other person with hopes that will get them back- it's a trap. She's explained her position, now decide on yours and explain it to her. Are you willing to let her move out for a few months to figure things out? A year? Maybe you're only willing to wait until the end of this long business trip. Whatever it is you're sure you can live with offer that as a deadline to either call it quits or fight like the devil to save the marriage.

You should also think about a couple of good faith gestures that both of you can undertake should you decide to fight for the marriage. Try to come up with something that you think will help in exchange for something that she thinks will help. Neither of you gets exactly what you want, but both of you get something you want. For example: She could commit to marriage counselling with you for a specified time and you could offer her "time-off" to find herself away from the marriage (separate vacations, weekends by yourself whatever).

No matter what happens, in my opinion it's important to take an ACTIVE role. It's easy to get frightened, depressed and overwhelmed in these situations and simply react to your partner's whims. Don't let that happen.

[TheEschaton]

Finally, what Mario said. If you want a little strange, go to Simucon - it might not be top quality, but you have to try hard NOT to have sex there.

-K

The question is: is it of any quality at all?

If the stories of wheelchair blowjobs are representative, I'd say...keep away from that shit.

-TheE-

[Warriorbird]

One of the best things I did was to be up front with my parents. She never forgave me for it.

[Gan]

The whole SIMUcon/sex/LARP think is scary on soo many levels. :spaz:

[Skeeter]

I agree with joining a gym. Join a nice gym but one close enough to home that you'll find the motivation to go every day.

Every gym has a loyal group of people that are there constantly and are usually very friendly. Also, there's chicks that care enough about their body to stay in shape there.

I'd much rather pick up a girl at a gym than a bar, not that you're thinking along those lines yet. But if you have 100+ pounds to drop, it's going to take 6 months before you really need to tackle the dating scene.

[Artha]

The question is: is it of any quality at all?
There's a lot I wouldn't touch with yours, but some girls are legitimately attractive. The same's probably true for guys.

[Warriorbird]

I've met some pretty decent looking women through LARP and anime/sci fi/gaming conventions. Mind you, I've never been to a Simutronics related one.

With that said... I also met my ex through a very pervasive gaming fraternity at my college.

[Gan]

I've met some pretty decent looking women through LARP and anime/sci fi/gaming conventions.

LOL

That is SO SIG WORTHY...

[Artha]

Moderately attractive girls with low self esteem love to become super attractive girls with high self esteem.

[Ignot]

She claims the sex thing is really minor

She is a liar. You gotta control the women with the dick. When you guys break up you should run through some hood rats.

[StrayRogue]

Is it wrong to want to say "whip a cross-face crippler on her ass"?

IS IT?!

[SpunGirl]

The question is: is it of any quality at all?

If the stories of wheelchair blowjobs are representative, I'd say...keep away from that shit.

-TheE-

I never heard about a wheelchair bj, but I have seen...

...one GM coming down from his room and loudly proclaiming, "That's the best head I've ever had!"...

...one married GM getting his freak on for several years in a row with a younger player...

...my roomate, the first year I went, spending but a single night in our room due to her 'con hookup...

...another roomate mysteriously disappearing to get his freak on with a lady he refused to name...

and more.

-K

[Amaron]

I believe the wheelchair was at disneycon two years back...
I could be wrong.

I think thats the one I heard about.

[Artha]

Wheelchair was Dessedemona's player being carted around drunk. Wheelchair BJ is one of Xyelin's hook ups.

[Amaron]

Ahh ok I just remembered wheelchair.

lol
J

[Trouble]

Yeah you should go to Simucon Revalos, if nothing else, to blow off steam with other gaming geeks. Since hook-ups do happen at Simucon, you will want to make sure your relationship is clearly defined with your wife before you go. If it's something where she might be able to call it adultery later on and use it against you, it's better to keep it in your pants.

How much does she know about Gemstone or the PC, if anything? If she does end up hiring a PI, he/she may follow you to STL, depending on her willingness to pay expenses. And if she knows your toon's names there's always Google and the inevitable online photos from assorted cons to be wary of.

[Gan]

ROFL at Desse drunk in a wheelchair.

:lol:

[Gan]

Yeah you should go to Simucon Revalos, if nothing else, to blow off steam with other gaming geeks. Since hook-ups do happen at Simucon, you will want to make sure your relationship is clearly defined with your wife before you go. If it's something where she might be able to call it adultery later on and use it against you, it's better to keep it in your pants.

How much does she know about Gemstone or the PC, if anything? If she does end up hiring a PI, he/she may follow you to STL, depending on her willingness to pay expenses. And if she knows your toon's names there's always Google and the inevitable online photos from assorted cons to be wary of.

Might be wise to see if she had any spyware programs on your PC already just for that eventuality.

New email address, new passwords, reformat your PC, change the locks on the place, etc.

[Sean]

Don't get Wezas'd

[Gan]

Don't get Wezas'd
Werd.

[CrystalTears]

What? She's the untrusted one here. She's leaving. He had all her access anyway. I think he's done most of the bending and pleasing here, he needs to cut that shit out and make her work for some lovin' or get walkin'.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/IM-IN-UR/rubzdehlotion.jpg
(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hahaha-wut.jpg)

[Sean]

Although if she does happen to be reading his PC account and is infact a young good looking future stripper she should feel free to PM me.

[Hulkein]

Although if she does happen to be reading his PC account and is infact a young good looking future stripper she should feel free to PM me.

Seconded

In all seriousness though Revalos, good luck and stay strong. You're in a tough spot.

[Trouble]

What? She's the untrusted one here. She's leaving. He had all her access anyway. I think he's done most of the bending and pleasing here, he needs to cut that shit out and make her work for some lovin' or get walkin'.

Right but if she's the one who will be financially strapped by living on her own, it's to her advantage to make his position in any upcoming divorce as weak as possible (by having a picture of him at Simucon gettin cozy with someone prior to any agreement of separation, for example).

To me there's no real chance the relationship will recover (sorry it's just how I feel given his version of the story) so he needs to be thinking of the most secure and efficient exit strategy IMO.

[CrystalTears]

Does infidelity matter in no-fault divorce states?

[DeV]

The communication is still alive and well, but it will take some time for everything to sink in and that may go south. Hopefully it doesn't. Most women I've seen take positions similar to hers consider it liberating to be out of a relationship where they've essentially felt nothing for so long they usually want no form of financial support in the end.

This may or may not be the case with Revalos so needs to take steps to protect his financial interests.

[Gan]

The communication is still alive and well, but it will take some time for everything to sink in and that may go south. Hopefully it doesn't. Most women I've seen take positions similar to hers consider it liberating to be out of a relationship where they've essentially felt nothing for so long they usually want no form of financial support in the end.
Until the bills start stacking up and they realize that living on a champaigne diet with a beer budget doesnt work. Thats when they put a price on teh poon.


This may or may not be the case with Revalos so needs to take steps to protect his financial interests.
/Agreed

[Sylvan Dreams]

Does infidelity matter in no-fault divorce states?

No. No fault is no fault.

[CrystalTears]

Kinda why I was asking because some seemed focused on catching her in the act or something, when I don't think it will matter.

[The Ponzzz]

Just FYI, I got my ex wife on Adultery and Abandonment.

[Gan]

Just FYI, I got my ex wife on Adultery and Abandonment.

Ran off with the UPS guy eh?

[Clove]

Ran off with the UPS guy eh?

Oh come on Ganalon everyone knows chicks dig DHL guys now. It's the spiffy yellow uniforms.

[Revalos]

OK...I think I just lost my mind. I just called my mother in law (her mom obviously) and asked her WTF is going on? My wife obviously is very close to her mom with the lack of friends and such, so they've already talked about this...albeit only yesterday or so, so she was as shocked as I was when this went down.

She tells me that this is the exact same time in her life she got divorced for the first time, for the same reason, and the same time her grandmother got divorced for the same reason. She said I need to give her time to sort things out...but apparently my wife hadn't told her the full story. Apparently her mom is on my side about all this (she's a golddigger with her husband, so I think she knows a real sugar daddy when she sees one) but I'm still not sure. She's telling me not to freak out, and not to go the legal route (I'm still going to do it, but try to do it on the down low) because that will kill this thing permanently due to the amount of pride my wife has. She thinks my wife has some sort of temporary insanity going on. I noticed today that my wife had scheduled her calendar far into the future, we just bought a fridge for the house, and we had had no problems whatsoever until Saturday night.

One other thing she mentioned is that maybe my wife needs to sow some wild oats. I call bullshit on that, if that is what this is about...getting her freak on with some random male hood rats, then this really needs to be over quick.

Anyway, she asked to get an e-mail and phone number from me that my wife would not have access to, so I did so. I am starting to believe that she is really pulling for this to work too...but she also agreed that the fewer people like my parents and such that know about this, the better. She thinks that my wife will work things out when she flies down to visit her on the 8th.

I can't believe I opened up to my druggie golddigger mother in law about this...that really shows how prudish I think my parents are, that I would still go to her before I went to them.

If this shit breaks down, you'll definately see me at SIMUCON next year (hopefully thin and totaly ripped by that point...beefcake...BEEFCAKE), and probably VEGASCON too since I would want an excuse to go to Vegas anyway, but I'd feel rediculous doing that alone. Wheelchair blowjobs FTW

[TheEschaton]

Starting in August, I'll have a gym in my building. I won't have any excuse, so I'll see you at next year's Simucon where we'll rack up all the sketchy gamer girls. ;)

-TheE-

[The Ponzzz]

Wheelchair BJs are FTL...

[The Ponzzz]

Wheelchair BJs are FTL...

[Revalos]

Another update on the crazy train.

She's blown a lot of my respect today. She came home about two hours ago and said that she'd taken $7000 out of our bank account at the advice of her boss, who told her she should get her own account pronto. Not a word of this to me until she waltzed in the door. I was livid, but I kept my cool. This is a hell of a lot worse than I thought. I feigned an excuse to go to CVS and called her mom on the cell phone and told her. Her mom freaked out too...and was about to call my wife. I stopped her and said that she should wait about half an hour before calling her and not mention the money (but find a way to get her to mention it instead) so that I had deniability when I got home.

Her mom called about 15 minutes later (nice job waiting...I barely made it home before she called) and talked to her for about 5 minutes...obviously on no real substance...she asked for my wife's cell phone number, so I'm assuming she's going to call her at another time.

But I'm pissed. I was thinking that you guys were kidding about the lawyers ASAP...but it appears that even 2 days after the meltdown, I'm too late. I've got one to call tommorrow...but I have no idea what to do. She obviously took out the money to pay the security deposit on the apartment...but another thing that bothered me was that she started talking about how she wasn't sure if she could do the 3 month thing because there might be a penalty for shorter than one year lease. That sounds to me like she's trying to break the verbal agreement we had already.

This is going bad fast. I'm so detached right now I don't feel anything either way, but I'm thinking that there is going to be very little her mom can do for her now. I don't want to get resigned to the end...but she fucking took $7000 out of our account without asking! That's rediculous. In most situations that'd be ludicrous (the only saving grace is that I had almost $16K in there so I'm not going to be short on any bills. I'm assuming this will be good lawyer ammo though.

Looking more like SIMUCON 08 here I come...

[Hips]

Remove her from your bank account, IMHO.

[Ignot]

The Everglades are good if you need to hide a body or two.

still good advice

[Tolwynn]

Pull any available funds you have left, before she gets the idea to take another big dip. If you have any joint credit cards, get her taken off of those as well, or cancel them outright.

Also, something to consider - her boss is advising her to do things like this? Guess who also makes the schedule that lets you know what she's ostensibly doing.

Get the lawyer, do everything you can to protect yourself and your remaining assets, and then GTFO as fast as you humanly can.

[TheEschaton]

If it's a joint account, she'll have to somehow approve her removal? Or maybe it's a legal part of seperation, I dunno.

[TheEschaton]

Also, something to consider - her boss is advising her to do things like this? Guess who also makes the schedule that lets you know what she's ostensibly doing.

More like, guess who's sticking it in her.

-TheE-

[Revalos]

The boss thing is an interesting thought. Should I confront this douchebag? I know where he works downtown.

[Ignot]

Why confront him? Its her fault. Take solice in the fact that your girl is falling for him and he has no intensions of leaving HIS wife (all assumptions but it always goes down like this). It will all work out in the end. Just get all this crap over with ASAP and don't forget what i said about the hood rats.

[Tolwynn]

Sadly, confronting him or anyone one else will just give more ammo against you.

Just move on, and be glad she at least telegraphed things to this extent.

[Revalos]

You guys are right. Shit.

I just found the numbers of her two real work friends...what about calling them...probably won't help I guess.

[TheEschaton]

No, it could too easily be construed as harrassment or threats.

Just withdraw the rest of the money, open a new account with only your name. Get her off your credit cards, and see if you can't get an administrative ruling on that 7k (though if it's a joint checking account, I doubt that'll fly).

Then, tell her in a very firm voice she had no right to take that money out of the account, and that that'll just be added to the fucking bill when the divorce goes through. I'm thinking pain and suffering right about now, man. Forget this girl.

-TheE-

[StrayRogue]

Women are fucking selfish bitches. That is all.

[Revalos]

God Fucking damnit...why the hell did it have to go down like this.

Thanks for all the help guys...Sean2 wins the prize for most precognitive on the PC with the first reply. Should have listened sooner...would have saved me a lot of trouble.

[Warriorbird]

That sucks man. If it's any consolation I just got a rather nasty unpaid bill directed my way by my ex.. You're not the only one. Do what you can to prevent more happening. Have a good sit down with a lawyer. Also consider talking to every decent divorce lawyer that your lawyer can think of just to say you had a discussion if she's gonna make the divorce contested in any way. This'll annoy her later.

[Hulkein]

Also consider talking to every decent divorce lawyer that your lawyer can think of just to say you had a discussion if she's gonna make the divorce contested in any way. This'll annoy her later.

Ala Tony Soprano when Carmela thinks about divorcing him.

[Hips]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking about that.

[AestheticDeath]

Honestly I am surprised you didn't lock down all your funds as soon as she said anything close to divorce.

What did you say her work situation is? Does she have an income worth anything at her job? Has she ever used her money towards things like the house, or vehicle(s)? You said something about her not knowing how to drive right? Howd that happen? Do you do all the shopping etc? She walk everywhere or take a cab or something?

Also you say $7000 was taken from a joint account. Is this the only account you two have? A shared one? How much if any of that $7000 rightfully belonged to her?

[SpunGirl]

Yeah, dude, open a new account in just your name ASAP and funnel ALL of your funds to that account. Cancel joint credit cards now. Not tomorrow, just do it now. I call bullshit on "I want to live independently and find myself" if she's fucking taking money out of your joint account.

I feel bad for advising you earlier to try and salvage things. This is not the act of a woman who gives a shit about the way she leaves you.

-K

[Skeeter]

DON'T TRUST THE GOLD DIGGING MOTHER-IN-LAW!!!

[Celephais]

better yet... is the mother-in-law hot?

[Khariz]

better yet... is the mother-in-law hot?

Hmm, thats a rather Genius question.

[Sean of the Thread]

God Fucking damnit...why the hell did it have to go down like this.

Thanks for all the help guys...Sean2 wins the prize for most precognitive on the PC with the first reply. Should have listened sooner...would have saved me a lot of trouble.



I was going to wait awhile for things to settle before I came out with the "I told you so" blast but since you brought it up...

I've been on both ends of whats happening to you right now and I could see the train a coming miles away on your first post.

Good luck man. You're to the inside pitch stage now tho.. get tough and get your shit together.

[Gan]

In Texas we have what is called a community property state, meaning everything starts off at a 50/50 split when dissolving a marriage with regards to bank accounts, financial instruments, property, etc. That's the starting point for negotiating the divorce settlement. You'll need to have your lawyer advise you on what the law is for DC.

In regards to the bank account. She was entitled to a portion of that since it was a joint account, her paychecks contributed to the balance too. Now that she's made the move of redirecting her income to an individual account, you need to do the same while only transferring enough funds into the joint account to pay bills with. Remember, now that she's going to manage her own money, she can manage her share of the bills too.

As it was mentioned earlier. Shut down the joint cards, period. If she's just a signer on your cards, remove her name and her access. Remind her that all the bills for her that are in her name (her gas, her car, her phone, etc.) are now her responsibility. Come to terms on an equitable split of shared bills like utilities, phone, mortgage, etc. And then go over it again with her every pay period so she contributes her agreed upon amount to the joint account or pays her allotment of the bills.

Remember, giving her responsibility to pay bills that aren't in her name can negatively affect you should she refuse to pay them on time or at all.

Today is the day you need to visit an attorney and start things in motion. The longer you wait, the more its going to cost you. And remember, document everything. I'll repeat, document everything! Names, dates, times, things that she does like withdrawing the 7k without telling you... etc. Document everything.

And lastly, because it bears repeating, again and again, and again. (blood is thicker than water)


DON'T TRUST THE GOLD DIGGING MOTHER-IN-LAW!!!

Its now time to stop calling her, period. If you need to speak with anyone, its time to bring your own parents into the loop or confide in a very close friend. Its obvious that your mom in-law can not affect any change in the behavior, and while it was a last ditch effort for reconciliation, its painfully obvious now that your wife's already 'out the door'.


Recap: To do list for today.

1. Open an individual account and move your funds to it first thing.
2. Call the credit card companies and either remove signatory access or shut down joint ones.
3. Visit with an attorney - get the ball rolling on the separation agreement.
4. Move valuable paperwork and other items from the house to a secure location (work safe, safety deposit box, mail to your parents house, etc.)
5. STOP CALLING YOUR MOTHER IN-LAW.
6. Either move her or yourself to the guest bedroom. You shouldnt have to be sleeping with somene else's critters.
7. Remove her access to any services (personal cell phones, email, etc.) that are in your name, and you do the same for hers. Remember, you have to show a good faith effort, it will reappear in court if you dont. You're the victim here.

[Warriorbird]

If the mother in law's hot...refer to that, "I'm gonna fuck your Mom." video on Youtube. Otherwise? Good advice has been given, unfortunate as that may be.

If and when she finally exits...the smart move could just be changing your locks and telling your neighbors she doesn't live there any more. I'm sure the people at your job probably have some common sense advice too.

[Ignot]

Yet another reason im never getting married.

[Kefka]

Exactly right on cutting the communication. At least communicating like a married couple. It has to be all business now. If it's not talk concerning the separation or ultimately divorce, protect yourself and end the conversation. Don't try to be her friend. It'll be hard, but you have to be ice. I'm not saying be mean to her when you to talk, but be all business and that's it.

Luckily, I made it through unscathed. Uncontested divorce with no children. Played the nice guy, forcing my smiles and laughs until I got that Judgment of Divorce. Then it went back to forgetting her existence. I doubt it'll be so easy for you unless you're a master at making her feel like shit for all that's going on right now.

You really gotta stop letting her control the conversation.

[Sean]

Don't let Skeeters wife pay your bills.

[Skeeter]

Don't let Skeeters wife pay your bills.

That's fantastic fucking advice right there.

[Trouble]

Don't forget to have any direct deposits/withdrawls moved to the new account. Also check on changing the beneficiaries of 401k/etc plans to your parent(s), AFTER checking with an attorney though.

I live just outside of DC so if you wanna grab a beer or ten and vent a bit, I'm game.

[Drisco]

Right now focus on finding a good lawyer, hire a PI and dig up anything on her.

*IMPORTANT NOTICE*

Put your feelings aside you may be thinking I really love her and I don't want to take everything from her... WRONG. You may be in love with her still but take your money and run don't let her run away with your money, you'll regret it. You may not want to hire a PI and find out that she has been cheating on you, but honestly its the best news you could receive right now.

[Kefka]

Not just any lawyer. Get one who takes sadistic pleasure in making the other party suffer as much and as long as possible. I think she slipped in mentioning her boss. Did she get a raise recently? Sic the PI's on him and if he's married, even sweeter.

[TheEschaton]

Not just any lawyer. Get one who takes sadistic pleasure in making the other party suffer as much and as long as possible. I think she slipped in mentioning her boss. Did she get a raise recently? Sic the PI's on him and if he's married, even sweeter.

More important, did he get a "raise" recently?

-TheE-

[Blazing247]

Shitty situation, my condolences. Something like this JUST happened to my buddy (he's now down to 1 week left of the 90 day waiting period for divorce), except he was in a worse spot than you. One day the wife came home, gave the whole "I need space to think" talk. Then, he found out she was pregnant. And then he found out she was cheating on him with her boss at work (he hired a PI, photographs and all but they can't be used in the state of CT as evidence). Lastly, and if things could possibly get any worse, she handled the bills and he found out that she had been funneling a portion of their income for the last year+ into a separate account and had put a down payment on a new house with her lover...and she had neglected to pay the mortgage on their current house, a few utility bills, so everything was going into foreclosure. Now that is shit. They had kids, and she left to live with her lover in the new house, and they were alternating weeks of the kids. She dropped off the kids at his house one day, he took them out, and came home and all their furniture was gone. The kids rooms were cleaned out, no beds, etc. Then the wife called DCF on him and said the kids were living in disparity and he almost got jacked for it.

I'm a big believer in the "I need some space" = immediate end of the relationship on my part. If my wife ever told me that, those would be the last words she spoke to me without a lawyer present. However, I'm odd in the sense that I can turn my feelings off for someone like a light switch and never cry a tear for them. I'm a cold-hearted bastard, not that you'd imagine I was anything else anyhow. Nice guys not only finish last, they also get ass raped. This world isn't a nice place, and women who are hopped on Oprah and Lifetime get this altered perception of what a marriage is. Sorry, a relationship isn't rose petals to the bedroom and endless nights of romance, but many woman believe this to be the case.

Anyhow I hope things turn out well for you man, you seem like a really good guy and I'm sure you'll have no problem finding someone who is your equal. Remember, personality > looks.

[Sean]

Blazing was hardened by the tough streets of Trenton...

[Asha]

Remember, personality > looks.

Garbage.

[Blazing247]

Blazing was hardened by the tough streets of Trenton...


...stalker? I don't remember mentioning Trenton, but anyhow, I no longer live there not that it matters. Sarcasm on your part aside, this world is full of shitty people- always look out for number 1 and be careful not to step in number two. And yes personality is more important than looks. At 70 everyone looks like a raisin, but personality lives on.

[Sean]

Na, all it takes is a decent memory. You used to be a rather controversial board figure because well.. you were a prick at times. Sides theres only so many other people from Jersey here on the boards. Skrim, Me, you, Izalude, I guess Leloo and Neff although they are both gone, etc.

[calyx]

I have a lot to say here, and am going to try to hit some of the points brought up over the pages of posts already.

I started this from the beginning posts, so it may address some things that have already been resolved.

Given what she's said about not loving you, waiting for you to change, etc she sounds incredibly immature.

It does sound like she's made up her mind, and unfortunately, no matter how much you try to change now, how wonderful and romantic and exciting you may be, she will only see you as she expects to see you now.

I am a big believer in trying very hard to fix a marriage before leaning towards divorce, but I also believe in leaving when something cannot be fixed and when you or both of you are truly unhappy.

Having no friends outside the relationship and being so insular is definitely a problem, and one that should be worked on regardless of how the relationship difficulties pan out. The best kind of marriage is the one where two people have their own lives and share them with each other.

And I have to say, buying a house you cannot afford is NOT excitement! I think you are putting yourself down far too much. Practical != boring. You can be practical and still do fun and impulsive things though. You have gotten very comfortable in your rut and you do need to shake things up a bit.

As far as the you doing everything for her aspect... she needs more responsibility in her life. That could definitely be a part of her feelings of dissatisfaction. When you feel like nothing you do actually matters or has consequence... you feel useless and you start looking for a way out of that situation into 'real life'. She needs to learn how to drive. She needs to have chores and responsibilities and a share of the bills. She may not realize that's what she needs... but it's part of growing up and becoming a mature adult.

And yes, rape fantasies are perfectly healthy. It does NOT mean the woman wants to be actually raped, it's a normal fantasy about not being in control of the situation, while in a safe environment. it's play.

Your wife taking the money from the bank account before discussing it with you is very... cold-blooded and rude. In all honesty, given how things are going, if the week at her mother's doesn't change things (and I'd even be suspicious of her in the future if they did change things) and she comes back still wanting to move out, I'd write it off and start thinking about your life and your future.

BTW, does anyone else think it's odd that her own mother did not have her cellphone #?

Do not confront her boss. Remember, he's getting her side of the story and god knows what that sounds like. Nice people always take responsibility and try to give someone both sides of the story, even the side that doesn't make them look good. The other kind of person always gives the side of the story where they are innocent and blameless.

And someone mentioned the mother-in-law... she was trying to calm you down and tell you everything would be fine. Is it possible the mother-in-law is keeping you calm till her daughter can get money, since you said she's a golddigger? Maybe the mother-in-law told her to get the money... a boss is a good 'mentor' figure that can be pulled out in any lie about where someone got advice.

I agree with what others have said. While you want the best for her, you also have to protect yourself.

She sounds like she... well, she sounds very immature and unstable to me, given that her greatest goal in life is to be in love. Love is a wonderful and important thing to have in life, but it shouldn't be your *entire* life. It's just very.... shallow.

As far as you, well... get out of your rut! Find some local groups and organizations based on things you like and enjoy doing. That would be a good way to make friends. Get on an improvement kick. The best way to make good changes in your life is to make positive changes in yourself, FOR yourself.

Start eating healthy, ride a bike, get involved in bigger activities, (ie political/environmental causes, things on a national or global scale, it can really help you put things in perspective.)

Something I have seen over the years is that while people may be a perfect match when they are young... as you grow older, you are still changing and growing. Who you are when you are 20 is probably not who you will be when you are 25, and certainly not who you will be when you are 30!

It is very hard for two people to get married so young, and grow together in such compatible ways that they are still a wonderful match when they are older. People may stay together and be content when they are older if the changes aren't to disparate, but that doesn't sound like the love and passion, the excitement she is looking for.

If you need anyone to talk to, feel free to IM me.

k~

[Ignot]

I have a lot to say here, and am going to try to hit some of the points brought up over the pages of posts already.

I started this from the beginning posts, so it may address some things that have already been resolved.

k~

Finally someone who knows how to post if they are writing a fucking novel. Was able to avoid reading furthur after these comments.

Anyways, I have never been through a divorce so I do not know how difficult it is. Good luck with everything and I hope it works out. You should feel honored that this thread turned out the way it did, it could have easily went the other way.

[Anebriated]

Its a PC miracle

[Sylvan Dreams]

You should feel honored that this thread turned out the way it did, it could have easily went the other way.

Not for lack of trying on some people's parts.

Anyway. . .

I'd be interested in seeing where they are 6 months from now.

[Ignot]

It would be even more awesome if the ex-wife started posting.

[Revalos]

Maybe she will post someday. And I do feel honored for how this thread turned out. Who knew that in my years as a basic lurker at PC I would be treated to an insightful and helpful conversation.

I'm cool with things now, I've taken a lot of advice to heart and I'm moving in the right direction. This experience has changed me a lot, and honestly, it was about time.

[Hulkein]

Good for you Revalos.

[Skeeter]

Good Luck Revalos

[Sean of the Thread]

Good luck wezas.

[Warriorbird]

Good luck, man. Mine was out of the house on April of 2006 and I'm still dealing with some of the afteraffects.

[Clove]

Good luck Revalos! Remember take action. And I agree with calyx. Get out of your rut. Drink beer, chase strippers, eat deep fried food and buy a convertible!

[SpunGirl]

Update, we want an update.

-K

[Ignot]

He's to busy cuttin the body up.

[Revalos]

Update is that I'm still alive and so is she. I spent the last couple days in New Mexico climbing Sandia Peak because I needed to do something. She's with her mom in Charleston. I bought an $800 Mahogany coffee table the day she moved out, and I've been cleaning up and throwing out tons of stuff she didn't take with her.

Not much else to say.

[Amaron]

Aww Good to hear from you.
Hugs Fisherman.

J/Katee

[TheSmooth1]

I would have been forced to slap that bitch across the face if she took that much money.

How could you NOT? Ridiculous.

[Sean of the Thread]

no comment

[TheEschaton]

"spent days in mountains cause I needed to do something"=needed to bury the wife's body in a remote location?

[Revalos]

I would have been forced to slap that bitch across the face if she took that much money. -TheSmooth1

I deserved it since I was too big of an idiot to have locked the accounts before she took the cash. And I'm too big of a pussy to do anything about this shit anyway.

Sandia is a good place to hide a body...but first you'd have to get it up there...only two ways up...hike 2 miles or ride the 17 dollar tram with a dead body. Rather difficult.

[Sean of the Thread]

Everglades man...

[SpunGirl]

I'm glad to hear that you're getting out and doing fun stuff instead of moping around at home.

-K

[Revalos]

Another update. I'm going to South Korea next month and a girl I know from work is also going at the same time. I don't quite know what the relationship advice would be at this juncture, but I think I kind of like this girl and we've talked a bit at work and will do a bunch of tourist stuff together while we are there for 3 weeks since neither of us have ever been to anywhere but Europe.

Given that I've never considered how to start dating again or anything...is this just the rebound effect? Am I going to affect the divorce proceedings in the future by dating during the separation time? (BTW: I'm sure my wife is boinking at least one guy now from my sources...and the fact that I still have access to all her cellphone records [thank you Verizon for recording call locations for outgoing cellphone calls])

[Jayvn]

every state is different I think, are you 'legally seperated'? Fl doesn't have em..some states do. good luck with it, have fun in S korea :) try the kegogi and soju

[Ignot]

if you fuck her in South Korea then legally its like it never happened.

[Anebriated]

at the same time there will be a bunch of hot little asians running around... use the american card.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Another update. I'm going to South Korea next month and a girl I know from work is also going at the same time. I don't quite know what the relationship advice would be at this juncture, but I think I kind of like this girl and we've talked a bit at work and will do a bunch of tourist stuff together while we are there for 3 weeks since neither of us have ever been to anywhere but Europe.

Given that I've never considered how to start dating again or anything...is this just the rebound effect? Am I going to affect the divorce proceedings in the future by dating during the separation time? (BTW: I'm sure my wife is boinking at least one guy now from my sources...and the fact that I still have access to all her cellphone records [thank you Verizon for recording call locations for outgoing cellphone calls])

I would be very careful about engaging in a relationship pre-divorce. State laws can vary - especially when it comes to adultery. Many judges are also very anti-man.

In other words, check your laws. Being in a relationship could be considered adulterous and depending on where you live, that could seriously screw you over - regardless of what she is [allegedly] doing.

[Trouble]

at the same time there will be a bunch of hot little asians running around... use the american card.

I found that there was an anti-American sentiment when I was in Seoul a few years ago. Sure, if you go to Itaewan (or however you spell it) and end up on Hooker Hill, you'll find some very friendly young ladies, but generally speaking, I found the women to be standoffish (compared to other countries I have been to) and the guys to be suspicious of gringos.