Diethylene Glycol + Nicogel -> Fun

[Apotheosis]

So, I recently came across this great product, Nicogel. It's supposedly a gel that you're supposed to rub on your hands, and it delivers nicotine via skin absorbtion. While this product sounds like a great way to help one quit smoking, I noticed that one of the principal additives to the product is Diethylene Glycol.

Had all the crazy shit regarding colgate, the dollar store toothpastes, and the cough syrup in South America not occurred and hit the mainstream news, I probably would not have thought twice about this product.

My question to all you biologists out there: Isn't this a product that one would want to stay away from due to the fact that it contains this chemical?

It damages the kidney, and depresses the central nervous system among some of it's other wonderful effects. This is partially responsible for killing pets when they "get into the antifreeze".

[Rysk]

I'm not a biologist... but would you rub Antifreeze on your hands? It's one of the main ingredients in Antifreeze. Can't be good for you.

[Apotheosis]

That's my point, isn't it crazy to use this product?

http://www.herc.org/msds/chemicals/diethyleneglycol.htm


Special Warnings:

Poison by inhalation. Moderately toxic to humans by ingestion. Moderately toxic experimentally by ingestion and intravenous routes. Mildly toxic by subcutaneous route. An experimental carcinogen, tumorigen and teratogen. An eye and human skin irritant.

[Rysk]

Here's my guess. The Nicogel is using this to cause irritation to the skin, causing an even faster route for the Nicotine to enter the system. I'm assuming you purchased the Nicogel online? I can't imagine them selling that in the US.

[Bobmuhthol]

They use diethylene glycol ethers which aren't toxic in skin products, but diethylene glycol you should definitely stay away from unless you're looking to make your body harder to freeze or boil.

[Jenisi]

My mother was a smoker for 35 years, and quit using Chantex (I believe that's how it's spelled, but don't hold me to it) and she's been quit for about 2 months now. I honestly never thought she could do it, but she did with it's assistance. Basically what it does: even if you do smoke, the drog blocks the nicotine receptors, so you don't even get the nicotine if you do smoke. It builds up in the system and you set a quit date usually 8-10 days after you start taking it, and she actually did it. So go her, and maybe do some info on that before you start rubbing antifreeze on your hands :p

[Warriorbird]

America is all about allowing you to poison yourself.

[Apotheosis]

Propylene Glycol and Dipropylene Glycol are suitable alternatives for this product.

I saw Nicogel being sold at a local store, and you can find it at retailers throughout the US.

[Stanley Burrell]

Methanol != Diethethylene anything.

Well, diethylene glyceride would be my drawing the line as far as OH- ions in direct contact with the skin, albeit partly dissociated.

What I'd worry mostly about is if they use benzene to fix solvent solutions before diluting them in the factory :shrug:

[Apotheosis]

Well, in any case, it's about quitting and just doing it. I have this issue with the physical withdrawl symptoms which really fuck me up bad.

[Sean]

Or... http://media.putfile.com/SNL-Nicotrel-Rock

[Jahira]

Chantix is a solid choice if you have physical withdraw symptoms. It is a partial agonist, which means it binds to the nicotine receptor and gives you 1/2 the effect. You don't get as bad of withdraw symptoms and you don't get the benefit. Lots of people love it.

[Tsa`ah]

Well, in any case, it's about quitting and just doing it. I have this issue with the physical withdrawl symptoms which really fuck me up bad.

Count me in with the Chantix group. I quit using welbutrin and some assistance with the patches and it was hell ... and still is really.

My brother ponied up the cash for Chantix. He the same problems I had trying to quit every other way. Raging anxiety, physical withdrawals ... essentially a big case of the monster jackass. He's been using Chantix for the last 4 months and doesn't even crave a cigarette. It's pricey if insurance doesn't cover it ... his first bottle hit the pocket book for almost 200 bucks, then again he was a 2 pack a day smoker.

As for the contents of nicogel ... well there are plenty of products out there that we don't bat an eye at even though they contain some pretty caustic, or at the very least ... unappetizing, chemicals.

Hell, cheese wiz contains many of the same chemicals we use in hair conditioner. Almost every carbonated beverage out there contains sodium hydroxide.

We put a lot of sick shit in our bodies for no other reason than the way the finished product tastes.

That aside, I'd go another route for smoking cessation. My experience with controlled nicotine is that you may kick the smoking habit, but you don't kick the nicotine habit ... which leads back to smoking.

Talk to your doc about chantix ... and maybe welbutrin if the anxiety or learned physical (oral fixation) habit is kicking you in the ass.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Almost every carbonated beverage out there contains sodium hydroxide.>>

I'm nearly positive that this isn't true. Especially since sodium hydroxide doesn't taste good or like soda.

Edit: Besides, even if NaOH was in soda, it wouldn't be for long.

2NaOH + H2CO3 -> Na2CO3 + 2H2O

When you put sodium hydroxide with carbonic acid, you get sodium carbonate and water.

[Necromancer]

Yeah, not to raise any alarms...but if you're that concerned about this one chemical you should really look into your food: particularly meat and dairy.

Virtually every sample of cheese tested in the US by the FDA and/or USDA has had pesticides in it. Now, keep in mind no one actually sprays pesticides on cheese. It's from the cows, of course. There are an estimated 20,000-30,000 chemicals found in US-based meat and dairy. In fact, it is far from uncommon for US meat to be turned away by other countries (particularly the European Union) for having dangerously high levels of chemicals they have long since banned. The vast majority of meat and dairy in the US actually fails even US legal standards for contamination, but the USDA has no actual ability (nor interest, I might add) to recall food. All recalls are voluntary. Most programs to track E. Boli, Mad Cow Disease, etc. contamination are also voluntary- that is the companies must decide they want to sign up.

Among the side-effects of the chemicals routinely found in your food...slowed metabolism, an additional inability for the body to break down fat, sluggishness, neurological disorders, osteoperosis (risk of osteoperosis is already increased through the consumption of meat and dairy products, by the way, despite what those milk ads tell you), heart disease, etc.

And then we wonder why we have incredibly high obesity rates, diabetes type II rates, heart disease, and the like. It's not a lack of exercise that's causing it, though exercise can certainly help mitigate the effects, it's what we put in our food.

Yay have fun

[Tolwynn]

And then we wonder why we have incredibly high obesity rates, diabetes type II rates, heart disease, and the like. It's not a lack of exercise that's causing it, though exercise can certainly help mitigate the effects, it's what we put in our food.

Chemicals aside, it's also how much food and what kind of it that most people cram down that's far more responsible for the above conditions.

[Stanley Burrell]

<<Almost every carbonated beverage out there contains sodium hydroxide.>>

I'm nearly positive that this isn't true. Especially since sodium hydroxide doesn't taste good or like soda.

Edit: Besides, even if NaOH was in soda, it wouldn't be for long.

2NaOH + H2CO3 -> Na2CO3 + 2H2O

When you put sodium hydroxide with carbonic acid, you get sodium carbonate and water.

Word. Caustic soda is not in soda soda. At least intentionally.

[Tsa`ah]

<<Almost every carbonated beverage out there contains sodium hydroxide.>>

I'm nearly positive that this isn't true. Especially since sodium hydroxide doesn't taste good or like soda.

Edit: Besides, even if NaOH was in soda, it wouldn't be for long.

2NaOH + H2CO3 -> Na2CO3 + 2H2O

When you put sodium hydroxide with carbonic acid, you get sodium carbonate and water.

Lol ... yes, that's what it breaks down as ... but that's not what it breaks down as. You will still find sodium hydroxide, especially in cans, in almost every carbonated beverage you drink. The last time I had to deal with residuals and weakening of the container, the percentages ranged from .75 to 1.20. You can also find lead in a good deal of carbonated beverages that use phosphoric acid ... and it's not from municipal water sources.

[Necromancer]

Common misconception. Yes, increasing food intake can increase rates of obesity and diabetes, for example, but the rate at which the incidents of these problems is increasing is a direct consequence of the chemicals in the foods. In fact, appetite increase being one of the common side effects of the things we're putting in foods should never be underestimated. It's making people hungrier.

But when comparing increases in food consumption between areas, the areas that increase food consumption by supplementing with additional meat and dairy are the ones that see dramatic increases in osteoperosis, diabetes, and obesity. Areas with relatively less supplementing through dairy and meat don't see those increases. The three countries in the world that have the highest rates of osteoperosis, for example, are the three countries whose diets have the highest proportion of meat and dairy. In sub-Saharan Africa osteoperosis is almost unheard of except in the very few tribes that subsist primarily by raising cows...i.e. the milk-drinking tribes.

So yes, the type of food plays a huge role. Meat and dairy are killing people. The FDA had to go to Court over the way they determined the food pyramid. The truth ended up being that meat and dairy are not required in our diets at all. The USDA (which funds campaigns like "Got Milk?" through subsidiary groups) was recently forced to cease its ads stating that milk could help you lose weight- as evidence showed either no support for the claim or that the reverse was in fact true. Granted, the FDA Court case was won because the FDA had compiled a group of 'experts', over 50% of which were reps from the meat and dairy industries, to determine what was needed and wasn't, and not on the scientific research demonstrating that meat and dairy were clearly not necessary for human diet, but the UN has actually published several publications recently linking meat and dairy industries to widespread increases in disease as well as severe environmental damage.

We create myths like "Oh you just need 'lean' chicken to be healthy!" not based on fact but based on habit. My favorite is that people not finishing their antibiotics is responsible for the huge increases of drug resistance we've seen in microbes in the last few decades. Over 50% of our antibiotics in this country go directly to the meat and dairy industries because the animals there can't survive the conditions they're raised in without them. We then ingest those antibiotics in low amounts, breeding wide-spread resistance to them.

Good times.

[Stanley Burrell]

Lol ... yes, that's what it breaks down as ... but that's not what it breaks down as. You will still find sodium hydroxide, especially in cans, in almost every carbonated beverage you drink. The last time I had to deal with residuals and weakening of the container, the percentages ranged from .75 to 1.20. You can also find lead in a good deal of carbonated beverages that use phosphoric acid ... and it's not from municipal water sources.

If there's excess NaOH(aq) in a carbonic acid(aq) solution wouldn't that mean that it (lye) wasn't the limiting reagent/reactant, er?

Yo, Tsa`ah, do you know offhand what the molarity of the sodium hydroxide was you were testing for in carbonated beverages and was this half-way through the final product? (I remember you mentioning the bottling industry briefly a while ago, I think.)

I'm still having a hard time understanding why it wouldn't completely dissociate as a strong base. And, assuming excess NaOH, you'd also have at least one side reaction with the Al (III)/3+ occurring by default as well: I'm pretty sure that'd mean a weird precipitate or more likely H2 with (g) as the driving force, meaning combustable cans?

You could prolly (i.e.) narrow down a close empirical of Coca-Cola's "Chemical X" if you knew the composition of the reactants. Maybe.

Anyway, that's still crazy weird if there's excess NaOH.

[Paradii]

Common misconception. Yes, increasing food intake can increase rates of obesity and diabetes, for example, but the rate at which the incidents of these problems is increasing is a direct consequence of the chemicals in the foods. In fact, appetite increase being one of the common side effects of the things we're putting in foods should never be underestimated. It's making people hungrier.

But when comparing increases in food consumption between areas, the areas that increase food consumption by supplementing with additional meat and dairy are the ones that see dramatic increases in osteoperosis, diabetes, and obesity. Areas with relatively less supplementing through dairy and meat don't see those increases. The three countries in the world that have the highest rates of osteoperosis, for example, are the three countries whose diets have the highest proportion of meat and dairy. In sub-Saharan Africa osteoperosis is almost unheard of except in the very few tribes that subsist primarily by raising cows...i.e. the milk-drinking tribes.

So yes, the type of food plays a huge role. Meat and dairy are killing people. The FDA had to go to Court over the way they determined the food pyramid. The truth ended up being that meat and dairy are not required in our diets at all. The USDA (which funds campaigns like "Got Milk?" through subsidiary groups) was recently forced to cease its ads stating that milk could help you lose weight- as evidence showed either no support for the claim or that the reverse was in fact true. Granted, the FDA Court case was won because the FDA had compiled a group of 'experts', over 50% of which were reps from the meat and dairy industries, to determine what was needed and wasn't, and not on the scientific research demonstrating that meat and dairy were clearly not necessary for human diet, but the UN has actually published several publications recently linking meat and dairy industries to widespread increases in disease as well as severe environmental damage.

We create myths like "Oh you just need 'lean' chicken to be healthy!" not based on fact but based on habit. My favorite is that people not finishing their antibiotics is responsible for the huge increases of drug resistance we've seen in microbes in the last few decades. Over 50% of our antibiotics in this country go directly to the meat and dairy industries because the animals there can't survive the conditions they're raised in without them. We then ingest those antibiotics in low amounts, breeding wide-spread resistance to them.

Good times.


How about you give us some credible sources insteading of throwing out numbers and claiming them to be facts.

[Alfster]

But he's got ADD, he can't possibly give sources.

[Tsa`ah]

If there's excess NaOH(aq) in a carbonic acid(aq) solution wouldn't that mean that it (lye) wasn't the limiting reagent/reactant, er?

Yo, Tsa`ah, do you know offhand what the molarity of the sodium hydroxide was you were testing for in carbonated beverages and was this half-way through the final product? (I remember you mentioning the bottling industry briefly a while ago, I think.)

I'm still having a hard time understanding why it wouldn't completely dissociate as a strong base. And, assuming excess NaOH, you'd also have at least one side reaction with the Al (III)/3+ occurring by default as well: I'm pretty sure that'd mean a weird precipitate or more likely H2 with (g) as the driving force, meaning combustable cans?

You could prolly (i.e.) narrow down a close empirical of Coca-Cola's "Chemical X" if you knew the composition of the reactants. Maybe.

Anyway, that's still crazy weird if there's excess NaOH.

The problem is seasonal, but the effect is pretty consistent throughout all seasons.

Humidity is the problem one since most bottlers use anhydrous and it's a deliquescent material. If you've ever walked into a bottler ... it doesn't matter what season it is or where in the building you are .... it's humid. The mixture is never in an even ratio due to excess from the previous dump (batching). If the bottler isn't fighting year round humidity, they're fighting static ... which will have the same effect. Since it's only a small percentage of the dump, as I said .75% to 1.20% prior to batching, the bottlers and Uncle Sam don't require it to be labeled.

I couldn't tell you the molarity for 2 reasons.

1. Trade secret. Even the quality staff of vendors are only allowed so much info. What information we were granted never contained measurements, only contents.

2. I never requested that information when we sent the samples from 5,000 gallons of an un-named cola off to an independent lab for analysis.

We had a fiasco several years ago and couldn't explain why bottles were exploding in the absence of any apparent defect. It turned out to be trace amounts of undissolved NaOH and phosphates reacting to trace amounts of Al in the container. Essentially the extruders, ducting, and molds for the polyethylene we used to make the containers went through a sanding process by outer cavities of the mold and ducting that delivered the polyethylene. Since the material was cooler on the outer reaches, it polished and sanded the aluminum it made contact with. So 1 in 4 bottles making it to the customer would explode 4-12 hours after bottling.

It took several months to figure out exactly what was causing it, but the time lines intersected at the point where we went to larger molds on the same, smaller, machines.

As for why aluminum cans, as far as our testing went, had higher amounts of NaOH .... I couldn't tell you. The batching process is no different between container types. My guess would be the absence of light in the sense of hydrogen peroxide.

So if you're drinking any kind of pop and you get a sudden passing sensation of nausea, start drooling, or have a passing burning sensation in the back of your throat ... you got hit with a higher concentration of NaOH than normal.

[Jazuela]

Heh - and all this time I thought the sensation of nausea whenever I drank Dr. Pepper (happens at restaurants when the waitress mistakes it for Pepsi) was just because I don't like Dr. Pepper. And the mild tingly burning sensation at the back of my throat was bubbles in carbonated beverages popping.

I've never had a beverage cause drooling though. I do enough of that when I'm sleeping without external assistance, tyvm.