The lesser of 2 evils...

[Augie]

So I need to buy a laptop. I am in a quandry. I really am not sure if I want to get Vista because I keep hearing all of this bad stuff about it, but any place that is selling computers that's a big chain only carries Vista.

Now, I could build a Dell and then it would come with XP. But I have heard worse horror stories about Dells so I am not sure what I want to do.

I'm wondering which is the less of two evils. Anyone have any experience with Vista as far as being able to play GS and stuff? Any help would be appreciated (I have like 10 days to find and buy a laptop hah).

[Kranar]

Technology related horror stories are typically much much worse than reality. Someone somewhere had some bad experience with one of the millions of computers that Dell manufactures every year, and also had a bad customer support experience, and so they then generalize their own individual experience as if anyone who buys a Dell is screwed. Same thing goes with Microsoft.

Don't buy something because of fear. I'm sure if you buy a Dell with Windows Vista you will greatly enjoy it.

[Blazing247]

I have Vista Ultimate sitting on the shelf next to me, but I'm going to wait another 5-6 months to install, as 1 year is usually the norm for a Windows OS to get their shit straight as far as drivers and bug fixes. With that said, I know many people who run Vista problem free for day to day activities- you should have no problem running Gemstone as it has no special driver requirements.

Don't go with a Dell, for anything, ever. For a laptop, Toshiba, Thinkpad, and Sony is the order I would go in.

[Blazing247]

Technology related horror stories are typically much much worse than reality. Someone somewhere had some bad experience with one of the millions of computers that Dell manufactures every year, and also had a bad customer support experience, and so they then generalize their own individual experience as if anyone who buys a Dell is screwed. Same thing goes with Microsoft.

Don't buy something because of fear. I'm sure if you buy a Dell with Windows Vista you will greatly enjoy it.


Dell's are full of proprietary crap, and of all the computers I've ever repaired, I hate Dell's the most (followed by Compaq). Just IMO, Kranar.

[Amaron]

I bought a dell lap top oh 7 years back now but its never had issues and for as old as it is and for never ever upgrading it I am still able to use it.

I have 2 desk top dells and I have never had any major issues.

Minor ones were handled quickly and I have no complaints.

J

[Augie]

Heh I called Dell to try to get the price quotes on a 'build your own' and some of the crap they were trying to shove down my throat about their Dell financing and all of that was enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth already.

I was like "Just give me prices, I don't want financing, just give me the bottom line" and every other word out of her mouth was "Dell financing!" Blech.

[Gammit]

Dell's are full of proprietary crap

I'm inclined to agree, any off-the-shelf Dell is going to be completely bloated with crap you don't need. Then again, so will any box from a big chain store. If you're really comfortable doing it, you're best off going to www.newegg.com, or some similar site, so you can buy the parts individually and really know what you're getting.

As far as Vista goes, you'll probably be fine.

[Augie]

I'm inclined to agree, any off-the-shelf Dell is going to be completely bloated with crap you don't need. Then again, so will any box from a big chain store. If you're really comfortable doing it, you're best off going to www.newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com), or some similar site, so you can buy the parts individually and really know what you're getting.

As far as Vista goes, you'll probably be fine.

The main problem for me with going to newegg or anything like that is that I've never bought a laptop so wouldn't even know what to look for, I'm kinda in a time crunch (I need this within the next I'd say 5-7 days so I can load everything I need from my computer onto it), and once I buy it, I'm going to be 2300 miles from home to use it so I couldn't just bring it back if I had issues heh.

These are the ones I saw on Newegg that had XP on them:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146157
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834147338
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834147277

Now as little as I know about laptops, I have no clue which of those is like the best one (or if they are even good at all). I just want to make sure anything that I wind up buying for 700-900 bucks is going to be worthwhile to invest in for a while. I don't need this big huge massive computer to do a lot of stuff. I just need something that while I'm traveling it can play Gemstone, have all of my music loaded, some pictures, watch some DVDs and that's it.

And for those of you using Vista, what do you find is the biggest difference between it and XP?

[Stunseed]

< And for those of you using Vista, what do you find is the biggest difference between it and XP? >

Vista is a HUGE resource hog. A laptop bought off-shelf with 512 ( or in some cases 1GB ) of memory will run SLOWER than your old XP machine.

Vista does have a few security applications I like, but the majority of them can be patched into XP at Microsoft's site.

If Vista scares you, in 95% of the windows I've opened in it, you can click on "Classic View" and it'll revert to your XP ways.

[Augie]

< And for those of you using Vista, what do you find is the biggest difference between it and XP? >

Vista is a HUGE resource hog. A laptop bought off-shelf with 512 ( or in some cases 1GB ) of memory will run SLOWER than your old XP machine.

Vista does have a few security applications I like, but the majority of them can be patched into XP at Microsoft's site.

If Vista scares you, in 95% of the windows I've opened in it, you can click on "Classic View" and it'll revert to your XP ways.

It's not so much that it scares me, it's just that I hate the thought of buying something where half my shit won't work :(

I guess I just hate change heh. And as far as comparing it to my old XP machine, I only have desktops so I assume that they run a bit different than laptops. I've never owned a laptop and don't want to buy shit for my first one, but I also don't need to invest 1500 bucks in one cause it won't be running a whole hell of a lot of stuff.

[Blazing247]

Go for the Toshiba Satellite, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114359

It's $100 more than the few you were looking at, but Toshiba is top notch, it's got a large screen, and the only drawback is the GMA950. If you're going to be playing serious games (FEAR, Oblivion, etc) you'd want a better graphics card, for anything else that'll do.

The larger screen size, especially on a laptop, is a nice feature. Also, 1 gig RAM vs 512 is pretty significant, especially if you ever upgrade to Vista.

[Skeeter]

www.alienware.com

I know they're owned by Dell now, but I got one for christmas 2 years ago and it's the greatest box I've ever owned. 0 problems so far and it runs everything I throw at it like a dream.

[Augie]

Go for the Toshiba Satellite, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834114359 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114359)

It's $100 more than the few you were looking at, but Toshiba is top notch, it's got a large screen, and the only drawback is the GMA950. If you're going to be playing serious games (FEAR, Oblivion, etc) you'd want a better graphics card, for anything else that'll do.

The larger screen size, especially on a laptop, is a nice feature. Also, 1 gig RAM vs 512 is pretty significant, especially if you ever upgrade to Vista.


That one looks pretty nice. I definitely don't need to worry about playing serious games cause I don't play any graphical ones right now. I might have to go with that one once I finish doing some other research, it does seem like a nice enough model to do what I want it to.

See! This is why I have to ask cause I know nothing about laptops hah.

[Blazing247]

Alienware? Hell I'll build you a computer with the same spec's and I'll pocket the $3000 leftover.

[Kranar]

I absolutely love my Alienware.

How about this... you give us a set of constraints such as what you want this thing for, as well as a price range, and then myself, Blazing247, and whoever else can have a much better idea of what you should get, give you much better advice, and then ultimately you'll have to decide.

I think it's a little silly to not buy a new computer with Windows Vista. It's an excellent operating system, the horror stories over how bad it is are majorly overblown and it didn't help that Apple contributed to the campaign of fear and misinformation with their commercials. Vista is a far superior OS. What's so different about it? Well nothing has to be that much different from a user perspective, you can set it to look very similar to Windows XP and have the security and administration settings be the same. On the backend it's a lot more secure, lets you find stuff on your computer a lot faster and organize it easier (virtual folders and instant search), better networking support amongst not just computers but printers and other devices and your computer is more of a media center too. You can hook it up to your TV and treat it like a really nice DVD player or overall media station.

Getting XP just because you don't want change, well it's an understandable feeling, but really it's like saying you want to stick to your typewriter because you don't want to have to learn all the new stuff that goes with owning a computer. It might feel akward getting used to all the new stuff at first but you'll quickly ask yourself how you ever got along with it.

[Skirmisher]

If you look through the Dell outlet portion of their website you can narrow down what you are looking for such as price, OS, ram, HD size, video, DVDrw etc.. without hearing some sales pitch.

They are refurbished but have a bunch of stuff still with XP, offer the same warranty as a new Dell and tend to arrive faster than a newly ordered unit.

You can probably find one for less than 1k with XP and 2gig of ram and the video power needed(IE no integrated graphics) to easily run Vista should you decide at some later date to upgrade your OS while still keeping your ability to use all of your peripherals currently attached to your system.

Example:

Inspiron 6400 / E1505
(System Identifier: 0GRVP6ET)

* Inspiron 6400/E1505 Notebook: Intel Pentium Dual-Core Processor T2060 (1.60GHz/533MHz/2 X 1MB L2 Cache)
* Genuine Windows XP Home

System Price : $949.00

Operating System
Genuine Windows XP HomeMemory
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM 533MHz (2 DIMMs)
Hard Disk Drive120 GB SATA Hard Drive (5400 RPM)
Video256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Certified Refurbished
Certified Refurbished
BaseInspiron 6400/E1505 Notebook: Intel Pentium Dual-Core Processor T2060 (1.60GHz/533MHz/2 X 1MB L2 Cache)
Media Bay8X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capability
Software UpgradeCorel Paint Shop Pro XI - Advanced photo editing
Microsoft Works 8.5
NoteBook Screen15.4 WXGA Notebook Screen
Hardware Upgrade6 Cell Primary Battery
Hardware is Microsoft Vista Capable
Network Interface Card
1390 Wireless Card

[Skeeter]

I got an excellent deal on my alienware btw. Just have to buy them at teh right times.

[Artha]

I think I suggested these to you on Psinet, but just in case I'm mistaken, check out ABS (http://www.abs.com/) for top-end computers that will handle pretty much anything you throw at them for a good price.

The laptop I've been using all year's an ABS, and I love it. It ships with a binder that has all the extra software you need (including the OS disk and drivers), results from the benchmark tests they run before they ship it, and a thank you note with customer service info. The other day they called me and asked me how I was liking the computer. <3 ABS.

[Trouble]

Go for the Toshiba Satellite, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114359

It's $100 more than the few you were looking at, but Toshiba is top notch, it's got a large screen, and the only drawback is the GMA950. If you're going to be playing serious games (FEAR, Oblivion, etc) you'd want a better graphics card, for anything else that'll do.

The larger screen size, especially on a laptop, is a nice feature. Also, 1 gig RAM vs 512 is pretty significant, especially if you ever upgrade to Vista.


Wow that is a pretty sweet deal for $780. Do you think that one would run WoW decently with its integrated graphics? You could throw in an extra 512 or 1 gb of RAM inexpensively I bet...

[Blazing247]

The integrated graphics on that machine will run WoW just fine, just don't expect to put everything on high and have great FPS. WoW isn't an incredibly GPU stressing game.

And Kranar, you can have an Alienware, you're rich. If you can't wipe away your forehead sweat with fitties, it isn't such a good deal.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Go for the Toshiba Satellite, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114359

It's $100 more than the few you were looking at, but Toshiba is top notch, it's got a large screen, and the only drawback is the GMA950. If you're going to be playing serious games (FEAR, Oblivion, etc) you'd want a better graphics card, for anything else that'll do.

The larger screen size, especially on a laptop, is a nice feature. Also, 1 gig RAM vs 512 is pretty significant, especially if you ever upgrade to Vista.

I've owned one Toshiba laptop, and that thing fucking blew. My sister had one as well, and ran into the same problems.

2 main problems...after a year of use, both of them would CONSTANTLY overheat. The second problem was that on both of our machines, the AC input at the back of the laptop blew out multiple times, requiring the machines to be sent back in for repairs which took 2 weeks. This happened twice to me, and 3 times to my sister.

[Blazing247]

I've owned two, as have family members and friends, and they are by and far the best next to Thinkpads (the company I worked for used nothing but Thinkpads and they were great, but pricey)(IMO).

As for overheating, that's generally a user caused problem. Keeping your laptop on your comforter while you use it in bed, letting the laptop get gunked up with dust, and playing games constantly without getting a good laptop cooler.

But again, this is all IMO, I'm sure we could name any company out there and someone would have a horror story. Generally, IBM and Apple place the highest out of customer satisfaction surveys, but bang for buck I'll always go for Toshiba.

[Heratik]

I've recently bought a new computer, generally an upgrade but I will say you have to hop through some hoops to get older programs to work. I've had no problems with GS other than a minor issue with downloading SF and such, but the fix is fairly easily found on the official forums. (Getting MTGO to work, now that was a trick) All in all I'm pleased with it. It has some security features that are really powerful (Such as the fact that every program has to be run in Admin Mode in order to seriously mess up your system)

[Doughboy]

I've had a Toshiba Satellite for...four or five years now. I love it. Short of the occasionally needed maintenance stuff (defrag, spyware checks, cleaning dust out of some of the internals, etc etc) it's been mostly trouble free. I stepped on it once and had to replace the LCD. Which I did at home in about 10 minutes. I keep wanting to go out and buy a new laptop..but this one just keeps on going basically problem free. All I've done is add a couple of ram cards into it and thats been it. I'll probably end up sticking in the internal wireless card to free up my PCI slot, which takes like two screws to access...

[Sean]

I loved my Toshiba Satellite. I broke the LCD and they replaced it for free under warranty in under a week turnaround. The laptop is now deceased but that was a user based slag where I was running some 3D max renderings and shoved it in my school bag and forgot about it and it fried. But I have nothing but good things to say about it otherwise.

[TheEschaton]

I've got Vista, but if you have an old XP machine, they have a cable you can get which'll supposedly convert all your XP programs to Vista-compatibility when you transfer them from one machine to the next? My problem is I totally fried my old machine, so I was downloading copies of old programs off flash drives and CDs, and not thru their magical cable.

As far as GS: there's an official "fix" for downloading the launcher on the "Go Play!" page of the website...but I'm still unable to get SGE to work (I can DL it, can't run it).

Vista organizes things differently, so a lot of things which'll reference, say, a standard root directory in XP will mess up in Vista. I had that happen with Norton Password Manager as well.

[Augie]

Go for the Toshiba Satellite, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114359

It's $100 more than the few you were looking at, but Toshiba is top notch, it's got a large screen, and the only drawback is the GMA950. If you're going to be playing serious games (FEAR, Oblivion, etc) you'd want a better graphics card, for anything else that'll do.

The larger screen size, especially on a laptop, is a nice feature. Also, 1 gig RAM vs 512 is pretty significant, especially if you ever upgrade to Vista.

So I went with this one with the combo deal that included the cooling pad. I was talking with some of my friends about this particular one and they all agreed that it would be a good solid model for what I need.

Whew....:thanx: for all the help you guys! I am so non-laptop savvy lol. Now I get to wait in anticipation for it to arrive! YAY!

[Blazing247]

I'm envious, hope you enjoy it! Newegg has A+ customer service though just in case anything goes wrong. Keep an eye on the price, they fluctuate weekly and Newegg will generally compensate you the difference in price if it goes down within a few weeks.

[Augie]

I'm envious, hope you enjoy it! Newegg has A+ customer service though just in case anything goes wrong. Keep an eye on the price, they fluctuate weekly and Newegg will generally compensate you the difference in price if it goes down within a few weeks.

Ahh cool, thanks for the advice on that. I will definitely keep checking just in case it goes down.

I was a bit hesitant only cause of the No Returns policy, but I am sure that things will go right. Now I am going to be antsy and plastered to the front door once they tell me it's shipped!

[Jayvn]

vista doesn't support diablo 2 :(

[The Ponzzz]

Chiming in late, but I have Vista and I think it's wonderful. Pain to set up your home network with XP machines, but I have yet to run into a hurdle. And it looks very nice, comparing the two side by side.

There are a SHIT load of older games that don't work though.

I'm pretty happy with the laptop I just bought.

From the links you posted, I wouldn't go with anything under 1GB of memory. And try to stick with 2GB if you can.

[Augie]

Woooooooooooo! I got the laptop today and I am UBAR stoked! Hurray! I already transferred my programs and settings and was playing GS on it earlier. I started to transfer my music and have about 3 hours or so left hah (I have way too much music).

Now I just have to go find a bag big enough for it...the one I currently have (which I got for free from someone) is made for a 15" and this one's 17".

Ooooh and the other good thing about this one...it has a number keypad which I am stoked about since I have a lot of friends with laptops that do NOT have the number pad and I use it a ton for walkin around GS.

YAY for popping my laptop cherry! I may never go back to a desktop again!

[The Ponzzz]

What did you end up getting?

[Augie]

What did you end up getting?

Scroll up :D Post #27 has the one I got.