Shields vs. Dodge

[grapedog]

As a 38 rogue, I'm currently doubled in both dodge and shield use, and using a medium shield. I'm just curious if it's worth it, because I can definately think of other places to use those TP's. I'm pretty happy overall with my DS after very little spell-up and use of the Non-Voln abilities I possess.

Just curious how i can go out and get the best bang for the buck.

Moving from a medium shield to a large shield would grant me immediate DS and a better block...but I'd lose another 10% from evade/parry calc's.

Looking over the mechanics of EBP and Shield use...it seems to me like 2xDodge is over-kill even if that second rank is pretty cheap all things considered. Dropping shield use would save me more points, but I seem to get more raw actual DS out of the shield and skill, then I do out of dodge. Evade and Parry just seem rather nebulous where as shield use gets me quantifiable numbers that I can use to determine where/what I can hunt effectively.

[Artha]

IIRC, .5x shield 2x dodge, small shield is the best for a traditional rogue.

[Celephais]

Don't forget that dodge factors into (new) CM defense... or at least that's the stated plan.

[grapedog]

IIRC, .5x shield 2x dodge, small shield is the best for a traditional rogue.

Why is that...doesn't the extra 1.5x training in Shield provide a pretty signifigant chunk of DS...not to mention a large shield provides better block against Melee and block against Bolt/Ranged...? Reading over how the skills work, I don't understand how moving to a smaller shield and recuding my shield use will be better overall save for dumping those points into something else.

I just don't get it...


Don't forget that dodge factors into (new) CM defense... or at least that's the stated plan.

Isn't it a general rule of thumb not to build your character on planned changes because well....it could take years?

[Celephais]

Some manuevers supposedly do use dodge as a factor already. I'm just completely uninformed on the matter and would rather not weigh in on it "for sure".

Dodge has a much better offensive stance affect on DS than Shield use. Dodge applies 75% + Stance/4 vs Shield being 50% + Stance/2

1.5x shield training is only 0.5 DS a level with a medium shield... and only 0.425 DS with a small shield.

1.5x dodge training provides 0.81 DS per level in MBP w/ a small shield. ... 0.71 if using a medium shield. (both numbers are higher in lower than MBP hinderance armor)

[grapedog]

what about a large shield?

[Celephais]

To summate...
Wearing MBP, and training 1.5x of a given skill at given shield level in offensive stance:

Small
Shield = 0.425
Dodge = 0.81
Total (1.5x each): 1.235

Medium
Shield = 0.5
Dodge = 0.71
Total: 1.21

Large
Shield = 0.575
Dodge = 0.6075
Total: 1.18

Wall/Tower
Shield = 0.65
Dodge = 0.50625
Total: 1.15

Lesser hinderance armor favors dodge even more, whereas greater hinderance armor favors shield use more. (To value at FullPlate divide all dodge values by 0.9 and then multiply by 0.825) These values are all off the play.net site, which is fairly accurate but I may not have proper rounding, etc.

[Kembal]

Celephais, do those numbers hold for .5x and 1x in shield training?

[Celephais]

Divide my numbers by 1.5, then multiply by whatever "x" you're training in... so yes.

[Latrinsorm]

No one can tell you if a particular training plan is "worth it" except for you. Worth is a subjective value. If you want the most physical DS, 3x dodge and 2x shield (and use a small shield). Deciding at which point the cost is no longer worth the benefit is something only you can do.

Larger shields have 0 effect on parry; they only hinder dodge.

I'm not really sure why you find shield DS to be more concrete, as there are formulas around (that I can post later) for each segment of DS.

[Celephais]

I'm not really sure why you find shield DS to be more concrete, as there are formulas around (that I can post later) for each segment of DS.

Play.net/gs4 - magic and combat(?) - combat factors.

has the formula for each of the three segements, where I came up with those values I posted.