Big DS problems?

[Rune]

Does anyone else think this is really really ridiculously low considering how many Runestaff DS ranks I have?

(at level 16), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 82 18
Arcane Symbols.....................| 111 27
Magic Item Use.....................| 111 27
Spell Aiming.......................| 132 36
Harness Power......................| 82 18
Elemental Mana Control.............| 82 18
Spirit Mana Control................| 82 18
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 45 9
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 45 9
Climbing...........................| 40 8
Swimming...........................| 25 5

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 14

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 8

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 17

You currently have the following active spells:
Spirit Barrier
Spirit Warding II
Spirit Warding I
Elemental Defense II
Elemental Defense III
Spirit Defense
Elemental Defense I
Cloak of Shadows

Guarded:
XXXXXX swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +0 vs DS: +208 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +21 = -168
A clean miss.

Offensive:
swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +0 vs DS: +142 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +90 = -33
A clean miss.

This just seems like it's too low even to hunt like-level things. Some help please?

[AestheticDeath]

Thats not that bad.

What enchant armor are you using? What enchant is the runestaff?

Runestaff DS is also going to be lower than a normal sword 'n board type.

[Asha]

That's alright actually. Runestave is crap at low levels.

[Rune]

I found out what the problem was.. I had a 1x Runestaff.. with a 4x Runestaff and Warding/Defending up, it's 236.. which still seems a bit low, but it's better than it was.

[Asha]

it's not a bit low. It's alright.

[AestheticDeath]

Most anything around level 16 wont be swinging above 180ish. That might be a bit high too. At least anything I can think of.

What are you hunting? What level are they? And what is their AS?

[Akari]

to be honest... I have found that worrying about runestaff DS is a waste of time and effort... being a sorcerer your DS will come along naturally. Runestaff DS is barely noticable considering the DS you get from your spells. Most of your DS will come from 712 which you just got 4 trains ago... sorcerers are harder to hunt at low levels and that is one of the many reasons. Your DS is not "bad" at your train, you will notice your DS skyrocket in your next 10 levels from 712, 102, 120... also when you get 430 it will just be icing on the cake... you are just suffering from low level sorcerer syndrom... dont' worry about it... it goes away

[Akari]

ie. you are worrying about getting too many magic ranks in that training plan, and not enough spells...

[Asha]

Akari are you drunk? She's working the plan perfectly.
Sorcerers 'were' harder to hunt at low levels, it's piss easy now.
The runestave plan is spot on and her spells are correct too.
Any more spells would mean 1 rank in her DS plus when it could have been more due to all the other MIU, AS, any lores, aiming plus harness ect.
You broke 400 CS well done!
But you obviously are shit at advice.

[FinisWolf]

Forget runestaff DS. Use a shield.

:)

Finis

[Sean of the Thread]

Brawl/shield!

And are you COL?

[Akari]

Ash... my DS is wonderful too... and Akari is not the only sorcerer I have... you can go for the little DS that runestaves give you or you can go for the DS that spells give you... don't be upset with me because I give advise on something that I've already tested. Runestaff DS has nothing on the DS you get fro being properly trained in your spells... don't believe me.. then test it as I have...

[FinisWolf]

I shared this via PM with Rune, but since folks are looking at other things, I can share it here as well. I have had alot of comments on the fact that this build has very few skills attached to it, but it ties right into Akari's post about spells. And I will state here what is at the end of my post, I do love this build. :)



I figured I would share, and either it will make you feel better, or worse, but maybe it will give you some other ideas, or maybe you will just love your build and DS the wya it is.

With no furster ado, here is my level 25 sorcerer's stats and skills:

Info Start:

Strength (STR): 33
Constitution (CON): 31
Dexterity (DEX): 33
Agility (AGI): 33
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 100
Logic (LOG): 90
Intuition (INT): 70
Wisdom (WIS): 100
Influence (INF): 100

Info:

Race: Sylvankind Profession: Sorcerer (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 32 Expr: 760009 Level: 25
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 39 (-5) ... 39 (-5)
Constitution (CON): 42 (-4) ... 42 (-4)
Dexterity (DEX): 54 (12) ... 54 (12)
Agility (AGI): 49 (5) ... 49 (5)
Discipline (DIS): 78 (9) ... 78 (9)
Aura (AUR): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Logic (LOG): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Intuition (INT): 78 (14) ... 78 (14)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Mana: 117

Skill:

(at level 25), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Shield Use.........................| 111 27
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 154 54
Climbing...........................| 66 14
Swimming...........................| 62 13

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 25
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 30

[I am not fully trained this level. About half-way through level 25 I will have the three other spell ranks I need.]

Spell Active:

101: Spirit Warding I - 3h 47:26 remaining.
102: Spirit Barrier - 3h 47:31 remaining.
103: Spirit Defense - 1h 18:51 remaining.
104: Disease Resist - 3h 07:50 remaining.
105: Poison Resist - 3h 08:02 remaining.
107: Spirit Warding II - 3h 48:07 remaining.
120: Lesser Shroud - 3h 48:12 remaining.
401: Elemental Defense I - 3h 51:21 remaining.
406: Elemental Defense II - 3h 51:25 remaining.
414: Elemental Defense III - 3h 47:49 remaining.
425: Elemental Targeting - 19:22 remaining.
712: Cloak of Shadows - 3h 49:45 remaining.

Physical DS: (Guarded)

You swing a closed fist at Sorcerer!
AS: +26 vs DS: +277 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +58 = -168
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Physical DS: (Offensive)

You swing a closed fist at Sorcerer!
AS: +36 vs DS: +228 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +15 = -152
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Bolt DS: (Guarded)

You hurl a stream of water at Sorcerer!
AS: -2 vs DS: +325 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +22 = -275
A clean miss.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

100 TD:

You gesture at Sorcerer.
CS: +188 - TD: +176 + CvA: +15 + d100: +54 - -5 == +86
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

200 TD:

You gesture at Sorcerer.
CS: +183 - TD: +176 + CvA: +15 + d100: +54 - -5 == +81
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

300 TD:

You gesture at Sorcerer.
A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses Jyp.
CS: +194 - TD: +176 + CvA: +15 + d100: +58 - -5 == +96
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

400 TD / CS: (This one hurt some)

You gesture.
CS: +164 - TD: +124 + CvA: +15 + d100: +58 - -5 == +118
Warding failed!
... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to your neck!!
Something snaps!
You are stunned for 6 rounds!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

700 TD / CS:

You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Blood Burst...
Your spell is ready.
!>
You gesture.
CS: +159 - TD: +152 + CvA: +15 + d100: +28 - -5 == +55
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Sorcerer uses a 4X shield and 4X robes.

I have to say, I love this build. I have a good CS for my level, and my DS, well ... lets just say against like level and within 5 level critters, they are not going to touch my sorcerer. Any combat manuevers would have to be my weakness (Which seems to hold true for all the pure classes.)

Enjoy, and I hope this helps in some way or another.

Finis

[Akari]

There are sooo many ways to train a sorcerer and them still be functional... in fact, I had totally changed during that last fixskills to thrown weapons and 1x stalking and hiding... I hated it, but... I still hunted just fine even though my CS was about 20 lower...
I don't infuse scrolls much... I have several chars and since I do.. I have them cast every castable spell on him. My wizard imbeds, and my cleric does holy recepticle... I wouldn't suggest this training path for everyone but it works for me and gives me great hunting ability. Without all of the chars for outside spells, I would be geared more towards infusing.
Once I cap, I will start investing in more demonology, Necro, MIU, AS, and Mana controls... I feel this training plan will help me get to cap fastest as hunting is a breeze
AND I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT I DO NOT TRAIN FOR RUNESTAFF DS, BUT I HAVE NO DS PROBLEMS...



Level 0 Stats for Akari, Dark Elf Sorcerer

Strength (STR): 55
Constitution (CON): 50
Dexterity (DEX): 65
Agility (AGI): 85
Discipline (DIS): 60
Aura (AUR): 80
Logic (LOG): 80
Intuition (INT): 85
Wisdom (WIS): 80
Influence (INF): 20





Name: Akari Race: Dark Elf Profession: Sorcerer (shown as: Warlock)
Gender: Male Age: 330 Expr: 4916670 Level: 75
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 68 (9) ... 68 (9)
Constitution (CON): 69 (4) ... 69 (4)
Dexterity (DEX): 94 (32) ... 94 (32)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 88 (9) ... 88 (9)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Intuition (INT): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 65 (2) ... 65 (2)
Mana: 274 Silver: 659



Akari (at level 75), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Spell Aiming.......................| 254 154
Harness Power......................| 213 113
Elemental Mana Control.............| 102 24
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 58 12
Perception.........................| 176 76
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 111 27

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 119




THIS IS ALL WITH NO OUTSIDE SPELLS AT ALL... KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS THE LOWEST THIS WILL BE AT ANYTIME... BECAUSE I ALWAYS HAVE OTHER SPELLS
Guarded...

Xxxxx swings a closed fist at you!
AS: -29 vs DS: +563 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +2 = -573
A clean miss.

Offense...

Xxxxx swings a closed fist at you!
AS: -29 vs DS: +444 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +39 = -417
A clean miss.

100's TD...

Xxxxx gestures at you.
CS: +320 - TD: +364 + CvA: +12 + d100: +55 - -5 == +28
Warded off!

400's TD...

Xxxxx gestures at you.
CS: +336 - TD: +375 + CvA: +12 + d100: +26 - -5 == +4
Warded off!

700's TD...

Xxxxx gestures at you.
CS: +404 - TD: +378 + CvA: +12 + d100: +100 - -5 == +143
Warding failed!
A ragged wound rips open your jugular, which begins spurting blood.

Bolt AS...

You gesture at Xxxxx.
You shoot strands of webbing at Xxxxx!
AS: +484 vs DS: +462 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +86 = +151
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Vertigo! Xxxxx clutches stomach.
Xxxxx is stunned!
The guiding force leaves you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

100's CS

You gesture at Xxxxx.
CS: +318 - TD: +347 + CvA: +14 + d100: +75 - -5 == +65
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarde

400's CS

You gesture at Xxxxx.
CS: +371 - TD: +360 + CvA: +14 + d100: +25 - -5 == +55
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

700's CS

You gesture at Xxxxx.
CS: +410 - TD: +333 + CvA: +14 + d100: +39 - -5 == +135
Warding failed!
Xxxxx is suddenly surrounded by a blood red haze.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


and this is what "other" spells can do for you...


You gesture at a snow crone.
A snow crone is awakened by your attack!
You shoot strands of webbing at a snow crone!
AS: +554 vs DS: +125 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +21 = +502
... and hit for 221 points of damage!
Strike to arm spins opponent like a top. The snow crone is stunned.
The guiding force leaves you.
A snow crone is firmly webbed in place.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


Xxxxx swings a silver-capped orase runestaff at you!
AS: +39 vs DS: +761 with AvD: +12 + d100 roll: +92 = -618
A clean miss.

[Rune]

Thanks for the help everyone. Though I'm surprised to see people who are actually less than 1x in arcane symbols/MIU, and some people with no spell aiming at all. I guess there really are a lot of different ways to make a viable sorcerer.

Since I played mostly during GS3, I guess I'm still a bit in shock at the far lower DS averages in GS4. It's more noticable on my cleric who had 400+ self cast DS at title in GS3, and is just now reaching that mark at 38 in GS4.

Right now I hunt hill trolls in the Landing and occasionally I head to Icemule and hunt grahnks and things in the cellar because they have decent cash.

Any advice on spell training paths? I was going to 1x sorcerer and minor elemental and .5x minor spirit until I get 430, then switch to 1x sorcerer and 1x spirit til I get 130.

Anyways, thanks for the responses everyone.

[FinisWolf]

As you saw in my plan, I am a 3X spell with my sorcerer.

As you already saw with the difference in plans, it's really up to you with want you want to do, and what you will find to be the most fun. :)

Finis

[FinisWolf]

I want to add that my 100's will stop at 130 until level-ish 60 to 70 then it will move to 140. Then after I have met my goals for the 400's and 700's, I will drop the last 29 ranks I have available for spells into the 100's giving me 69 ranks in the 100 circle.

400's will stop at 74 ranks.

700's will stop at 160 ranks.

Finis

[AestheticDeath]

Akari, were you using 140 in the self spelled portion? If not I dont see how you got that much DS. I had a lvl 91 sorcerer who barely got that high with more runestaff ranks. And then with shield/brawl I think.

[Akari]

Akari, were you using 140 in the self spelled portion? If not I dont see how you got that much DS. I had a lvl 91 sorcerer who barely got that high with more runestaff ranks. And then with shield/brawl I think.

yes, I was usuing 140... it is one of my defensive spells, and self cast... alot of people overlook 140, but the fact of the matter is if you are COL and use your brains while you hunt, you can use 140 nonstop if needed... it lasts for 2 minutes and my average hunt is about 3 minutes... I never run outta mana if I use it... I can even go for a long hunt and cast it 3-4 times and still be ok for mana... of course I only do this when overhunting by about 20 trains, otherwise I don't need it

Also, remember that is self spelled... so if you add 611, 618, 503, 911, and anything else from scrolls or magic items... then DS is NEVER a problem and 140 isn't even needed...

but that is my point... runestaff DS is overrated... I don't even worry about it and have no DS problems... I beleive the best defense is offense, therefor I have other things I put my time into like sorcerer spell ranks and 2x spell aiming...
Of course, if I went brawl/shield or I trained more in MIU and AS + mana controls I would have more DS... but do I need it? nothing in the game can come close to touching me with a physical AS (except invasion critters) , so why bother...

[AestheticDeath]

Are you hunting OTF yet? It is a bit different from other hunting grounds.

[RichardCranium]

Akari do you hunt open-handed or holding a rune staff?

[Akari]

I hunt OTF, and the Bowels... and I use a runestaff... I CAN go open hand, and have when hunting around the heralds, but so far everytime I've been disarmed I just pick up my staff and continue to fight once the rt is over...

Trying to stay out of the Teras Temple for a few more trains... I've been there but I don't think I'm ready to hunt it consistantly yet.

[Archeagle]

drop the armor, raise the physical training, reduce the arcane, and MIU, increase spells, add to yer climbing and swimming, and you should be okay. According to the runestaff DS minimum, in magical training arena is 8 per train, to be more proficient 10.5 magical per train is sufficent, anything over that is over kill. Raise your lore etc.. if you have enough points, but arcane and miu, why would you have more than your level of train? It is pretty much like your spells, if you are 17, you can't cast above level 17 spells, so why waste it; same as with arcane and miu, 1x per level of training is sufficent, so use the points in other magical arena where it will be more benficial specially in the long run!

[Akari]

drop the armor, raise the physical training, reduce the arcane, and MIU, increase spells, add to yer climbing and swimming, and you should be okay. According to the runestaff DS minimum, in magical training arena is 8 per train, to be more proficient 10.5 magical per train is sufficent, anything over that is over kill. Raise your lore etc.. if you have enough points, but arcane and miu, why would you have more than your level of train? It is pretty much like your spells, if you are 17, you can't cast above level 17 spells, so why waste it; same as with arcane and miu, 1x per level of training is sufficent, so use the points in other magical arena where it will be more benficial specially in the long run!

There is so much wrong with this advice that I really wish I knew who this was because they need a hug, or Jesus, or something...

First off, Archeagle is telling you what to do with YOUR sorcerer... there are a million ways to train a sorcerer and not one of them can be considered incorrect...
Secondly, you were asking about DS... most of Archeagles answer had nothing to do with DS...
Thirdly, Archeagle began the whole thing wrong... with "drop the armor" he didn't even ask what type of armor "YOU" prefer, or plan to wear... (if you are planning to wear doubles, you will need 8 ranks of armor use for minimum hindrance)
Fourth, Archeagles says "raise the physical training" ROFL the sorcerer is question is maxed in physical training for thier level, WTF?

there is more that I'm not going to get into (like needing more climbing and swimming at 17 trains)... like I said though, it's a matter of opinion... and if that is what Archeagle wants for his sorcerer... then let Archeagle have that for his sorcerer, but I would suggest not following any of that advice that was given... In fact, if you are clueless about sorcerery and trying to find a good training plan... best thing you could do is act like what he/she said here doesn't exist...