Returning (Maybe) To GS IV

[Baerlynd]

Hello all. I have been gone from GS for quite some time. I have considered, lately, returning. I have missed the roleplaying you can find on Gemstone as compared to the graphical games I've played of late.

I noticed that there have been some changes, like the Adventurer's Guild. I also noticed that the main Psinet page I used to use is down. Anyway, some general questions:

What's the average prime time server population like?

Is Psinet still useable? I loved the spellups, etc.

Have there been any changes to PvP?

Is the game still fun?

How well can a wizard expect to solo? A Bard?

Has item breakage been implemented yet?

Has River's Rest gotten any higher level hunting levels in the past year or two?

Finally, what's your favorite aspect of GS?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[Bobmuhthol]

The game is not still fun, sorry.

[Celephais]

>status
Active Players: 478
Staff on duty:
GameHost Argellion
Use WHO HELP for more options.

No idea on psinet... it went down recently, not sure if it's back up.

Game hasn't really changed a ton, the adventurers guild certainly adds much needed flavor to hunting.

Wizards can solo easily, as can pretty much any class...

No breakage.

My favorite aspect is the transparency of the mechanics :) ... not roleplay.

[Baerlynd]

The game is not still fun, sorry.

Damn. What ruined it for you Bob? No more free cybersex?

[Bobmuhthol]

Pretty much. The game got less and less fun consistently, I pretty much only sat around on PsiNet for a very long time. Then my connection with Simu slowed down to the point where I couldn't reasonably play the game at all, which was totally inexplicable but convinced me to cancel my subscription.

[Baerlynd]

Sorry to hear that, Bob. I always enjoyed you on PsiNet.

[Jolena]

What's the average prime time server population like?

Around 500 or so at most times.



Is Psinet still useable? I loved the spellups, etc.

Yep, I am using it right now.



Have there been any changes to PvP?

PvP is against policy. CvC, however, is allowed in some areas such as the boulder.




Is the game still fun?

Absolutely, but its not for everyone. I honestly think the game is what you make of it. :shrug:



How well can a wizard expect to solo? A Bard?

Just as well as any other class can expect to solo. It takes some work, ingenuity, good training, and time.




Has item breakage been implemented yet?

RSN. (In other words, no. )



Has River's Rest gotten any higher level hunting levels in the past year or two?

Nope, but Teras has.



Finally, what's your favorite aspect of GS?

Roleplay and the ability to customize my character in a way no other game offers.

[Burnt out Priestess]

psinet is back up now and welcome back if /when you return

[Askip]

Were you playing when runestaff defense was implemented? My casters have found runestaves to be the best thing since sliced bread. All the TPs spent on sword/board can now be spent elsewhere.

:D

[Tea & Strumpets]

Game hasn't really changed a ton, the adventurers guild certainly adds much needed flavor to hunting.


GS4 may not have changed a ton, but the change from GS3 to GS4 totally ruined the game in the name of "balance". Pre-conversion, levelling up had very nice perks.

If you were never high level in GS3, then you don't realize how much everything got nerfed. I was only around lvl 130 when the switch came, so I was lucky enough to only lose 1/3 of my levels (whew!). I imagine it was even worse for those capped, or over the cap, at the time.

I still can't believe a few dopes do the post lvl 100 hunting for TP's. The game is already a huge time sink for little reward at higher levels, and it gets progressively worse the higher you level up.

To sum up, Melissa and especially Warden are imbeciles.

If you don't give a shit about mechanics and just want to pretend you're a dark elf, then the game might still be fun for you.

[Celephais]

Hmm.. I got the impression from the OP that they were there for the GS4 switch... not sure why. Actually I don't even feel the GS4 switch was that big a deal if you were under the cap.

[Davenshire]

Absolutely, but its not for everyone. I honestly think the game is what you make of it. :shrug:

Exactly. My experience from gs3-gs4 there have been a lot of improvements. Spell casters made out with spell durations being improved. BIG PLUS for lower level characters so you dont have to stack spells constantly when yer resting.

I think bitterness might come from folks who play/played the game WAY to much and look back on it and are upset with how much time they spent in it. I know I took a couple years off, and anytime I start feeling like that I change it out.

The game is a lot of fun, and all classes have seen a lot of changes. I'd suggest it is well worth trying out.

[Tea & Strumpets]

What level were you two when the conversion happened?

[CrystalTears]

I think bitterness might come from folks who play/played the game WAY to much and look back on it and are upset with how much time they spent in it. I know I took a couple years off, and anytime I start feeling like that I change it out.
Yeah, that's exactly why some of us quit.

Not.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Spell casters made out with spell durations being improved. BIG PLUS for lower level characters so you dont have to stack spells constantly when yer resting.



That's just insane. One cast of a defensive spell on myself lasted 2 hours in GS3. Spell durations did not improve.

[Davenshire]

That's just insane. One cast of a defensive spell on myself lasted 2 hours in GS3. Spell durations did not improve.


Well I get you'd have to look at it OVER ALL, and not from the conspiracy theorists view that warden and gang were trying to screw over anyone over 100th level.

MINIMUM spell duration times were introduced. lets find an example...
601 · Natural Colors [NTRCOLOR]
Duration: 600 seconds +20 seconds for every Ranger spell known, stackable

what was it pre GS 4? 1 minute a level? Now as a young ranger you can throw it up before a hunt, without having to refesh it every minute + constantly.

Please tell me if I am wrong, but wasn't the spell rollover cap removed with the advent of GSIV?

My 63rd level wizard can easily do 4 casts of guards/blurs and give everyone in the group 4 hours worth. No fear of screwing someone over by going over what was it 2 hours before? Any of my other spells I can slap a cast on between hunts of whatever to keep the four hours going in case I am short on mana at a later time.

I am currently 2x in HP with my wizard, and can pull out all kinds of goofy stuff on a hunt and still not run out.

Young casters and casters overall have benefited quite a bit from the changes. Sorcerers kick even MORE ass now :( Wizards will be even nicer I am hoping after the lore review :)

Runestaves have made training in shield sword or whatever a thing of the past. Unless you still wanna go mutant haste swinger route, you still can. Giving us a lot more options. Helle veryone has a lot more options in GS4.

[Fallen]

Well, on durations, they just nerfed the hell out of Crystal Amulet usages. It definitely adds a perk to being in COL. Just spam sign of thought for 20 mana as opposed to rubbing a Crystal Amulet that many times.

[Artha]

When I played last month it felt like a ghost town.

[Celephais]

The spell cast duration only hurt people who it doesn't "hurt" to have the duration reduced. At cap you can afford to cast a spell three or four times for four hours. Low levels spells with duration sucked... not only did you have less mana (because now you get a starting base mana), but you couldn't actually build a duration prior to a hunt (even worse in earlier GS3 when it was 10/20% instead of 15/25% mana per pulse).

[Tea & Strumpets]

Well I get you'd have to look at it OVER ALL, and not from the conspiracy theorists view that warden and gang were trying to screw over anyone over 100th level.


I don't think they were trying to ruin the game for the high level players, they just didn't give a fuck since it was such a small portion of the game's population. The rest of you never played the funnest part of the game (mechanics wise) which was character customization that makes the current game's version of it laughable.

I'd be more interested in some of the other high level player's opinions, like Atlanteax or Methais. I know they were both higher level players at the time of the switch, and I'd guess they'll agree that today's game is a cheap imitation in regards to character customization.

I guess it's human nature to look at things from your own point of view, but I don't understand why some of you think that players losing 60 levels and the associated training points is "no biggie" just because Simu threw you some table scraps.

I guess I'm the same way because to be honest with you, I couldn't give a flying fuck if level 10 wizards now have better spell durations.

Also, grats on getting to spend training points to gain mana now. What a buff!

[Meges]

Exactly. My experience from gs3-gs4 there have been a lot of improvements. Spell casters made out with spell durations being improved. BIG PLUS for lower level characters so you dont have to stack spells constantly when yer resting.

I think bitterness might come from folks who play/played the game WAY to much and look back on it and are upset with how much time they spent in it. I know I took a couple years off, and anytime I start feeling like that I change it out.

The game is a lot of fun, and all classes have seen a lot of changes. I'd suggest it is well worth trying out.

For the characters you speak of, you're totally wrong as already stated. ALL of my spells lasted for a least 2 hours per cast in GSIII. Spell duration got totally nerfed if you were over a certain level, and that level wasn't any where near cap.

Bitterness came from a variety of directions. Personally, I was pissed off because, overnight I lost a HUGE level gap over most of the players. Spell duration was another area that pissed me off. I no longer could gain levels, so yeah, I'm one of those TP hunters (to include fame and silver). Although, I do play a lot of other characters; higher and mid-level. I just recently trained my new sorcerer to level 30. So I do offset being ticked off by the massive changes by having variety of my own that I can fall back on. The 100 level cap was/is a pain in the rear too, because you can only go so far then you're forced to diversify, because your primary skill is maxed. It gets kind of frustrating to see the same AS or CS over and over knowing it'll never go up. Then again, I'm kind of numb to that with my older characters.

There's likely a few more areas, but I honestly haven't thought about it for a number of years now and at this point could care less. At least until people who have no clue as to what they're talking about chime in with a bunch of crap.


Meges

[Latrinsorm]

the change from GS3 to GS4 totally ruined the game in the name of "balance". lol
If you don't give a shit about mechanics and just want to pretend you're a dark elf, then the game might still be fun for you.lol harder.
The rest of you never played the funnest part of the game (mechanics wise) which was character customization that makes the current game's version of it laughable.Are you seriously suggesting that in the pre-fixskills, pre-migration era it was easier to customize a character? Can you seriously suggest that a warrior in the open would have anywhere near the success he or she would have in GSIV? Regale us with tales of how your capped runestaff bard did, won't you?
but I don't understand why some of you think that players losing 60 levels and the associated training points is "no biggie" just because Simu threw you some table scraps.Maybe some of us don't think an arbitrary level scale really matters. What if you were level 1000 now instead of 100? How about 10? How about 23? If these are all the maximum level requiring the same amount of effort, how are they at all different? But no, it must be because of those dratted "table scraps". Nobody gets it except people who played capped characters, &c.
The 100 level cap was/is a pain in the rear too, because you can only go so far then you're forced to diversify, because your primary skill is maxed. It gets kind of frustrating to see the same AS or CS over and over knowing it'll never go up.You recognize that this (and only this) allows for an infinite, continuous hunting environment, right?

[Celephais]

I think the worst change with GS3 was fixskills and skill migration. I liked the fact that in order to be truely powerful you had to make sacrifies early, you couldn't just take the easy route and then switch to the powerful caste when it comes to maturity.

I understand capped player frustration at losing levels, but I'm sure you guys understand why they had to do it... would it have been less painful if the cap was actually "softly" enforced (IE something like they make it so picking/healing/raising/trashman only gives exp if the critter that caused the wound/death/box/trash would give exp... no exp for player caused whatever, and then they only had critters up to level 100... so you could get to level 110, but then there would be no sources of exp).

[Latrinsorm]

I liked the fact that in order to be truely powerful you had to make sacrifies early, you couldn't just take the easy route and then switch to the powerful caste when it comes to maturity.I don't see how hide/ambush required any "sacrifices" worth talking about early on in GSIII. I get what you're saying, but at least there are multiple viable (and even powerful) builds now. I also don't totally get what you're saying, because if you work your way up with archery (or whatever), how is what you did cheapened by someone else fixskilling their character in at level 60 (or whatever)?

[Meges]

You recognize that this (and only this) allows for an infinite, continuous hunting environment, right?

If I'm understanding you correctly; are you speaking to more hunting grounds? If that's the case, you're joking right? One hunting area for capped players since EN was released is hardly "infinite" and "continuous." Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Perhaps you mean that we can at least gain EXP via hunting regardless of level currently. If that's what you meant, then I'd agree. However, I was still able to gain EXP rather easily even when I couldn't learn from critters any longer. So, that argument is a little weak to me.

Like I said before, I'm pretty much at the point where I could care less and I'm speaking from my perspective at the time of the change-over. Overall, I think the game is much better actually. It's a lot more diverse in many areas that bring enjoyment to most people and that's kind of the point of the game people pay for.


Meges

[Fallen]

I am firmly of the belief that the yearly fixskills should be abolished. Keep them for major game changes and the Adventurer's Guild.

[Celephais]

I don't see how hide/ambush required any "sacrifices" worth talking about early on in GSIII. I get what you're saying, but at least there are multiple viable (and even powerful) builds now. I also don't totally get what you're saying, because if you work your way up with archery (or whatever), how is what you did cheapened by someone else fixskilling their character in at level 60 (or whatever)?

Someone explained it in the perspective of the 3x spell cleric. There was a guy who had been leveling a cleric by dumping all his skills into 3x spells, couldn't afford even physical training. When that player capped he'd have the highest attainable CS for a cleric. Now if someone just sword and boarded to 50, fixskilled for CS, and capped with the same CS... that kinda sucks. It's nice to know that for a given power level, there can be only one way to get there. Sure I could do that now anyway, but why challenge myself when there is no reward?


I am firmly of the belief that the yearly fixskills should be abolished. Keep them for major game changes and the Adventurer's Guild.

That would be great. A step closer to removing them entirely... I liked them having no problem screwing people over (I got screwed over as a wizard who relied on Haste II... I wasn't made unviable, some of the sorc changes really hurt...).

[Fallen]

I dont know many that do Archery from day 1. Now add in all the mutant pures that do archery. How many did that from level 0? Getting rid of yearly fixskills wont stop that, but it wont be such a lock that you will be able to do so.

I dunno. It is a game and it should be fun and all that. But constantly completely changing everything about your character in 1 second's time atleast once a year seems a bit off. Color me old fashioned. No one can argue that yearly fixskills do not make the game easier.

[Latrinsorm]

Perhaps you mean that we can at least gain EXP via hunting regardless of level currently. If that's what you meant, then I'd agree.This was the one I meant.
However, I was still able to gain EXP rather easily even when I couldn't learn from critters any longer. So, that argument is a little weak to me.I could have done the same with one of my characters (a healer). To me it's not just about exp but the actual hunting experience. With my warrior, not being able to productively hunt anymore would have been awfully deflating, and I suspect that this is a prevalent sentiment. Even now when people can still have some production, people in this very thread talk about how it's not very appealing. Zero is certainly less than some.
Sure I could do that now anyway, but why challenge myself when there is no reward?It is not the mountain you conquer, it is yourself. :D

[Anebriated]

I dont know many that do Archery from day 1. Now add in all the mutant pures that do archery. How many did that from level 0? Getting rid of yearly fixskills wont stop that, but it wont be such a lock that you will be able to do so.

That was something that really bugged me when they first made the archery changes to make it easier. There had really only been a handful of archers around at any time before that and then it seemed everyone got to switch to what we were doing well with on a whim. Looking back on it now with a part time players view of it all im pretty happy with the changes. These last fixskills let me retrain my guys to better fit my current playstyles. The changes help out casual players immensely while only giving the hard core players little more advantage than they would have had anyway.

[Tea & Strumpets]

lollol harder.Are you seriously suggesting that in the pre-fixskills, pre-migration era it was easier to customize a character? Can you seriously suggest that a warrior in the open would have anywhere near the success he or she would have in GSIV? Regale us with tales of how your capped runestaff bard did, won't you?

Yes, with stat growth I had a shitload of "extra" training points even at level 90. That means all my core skills were fully trained, and I had plenty of TP's to diversify.


Maybe some of us don't think an arbitrary level scale really matters. What if you were level 1000 now instead of 100? How about 10? How about 23? If these are all the maximum level requiring the same amount of effort, how are they at all different? But no, it must be because of those dratted "table scraps".

I'm going to take a page out of your Jackassing 101 book and reply with "lol" here. "Arbitrary" level scale has nothing to do with it. At the higher levels, the time you spend leveling once, you would have leveled 2.5 times in GS3. That's 2.5x more stat growth, and 2.5x more training points. That's only true at the higher levels, but since the overall experience to cap didn't change, the simple FACT is that you get 60 levels less training points, and 60 less chances for your stats to grow with the same amount of effort. To call that arbitrary is assinine.


Nobody gets it except people who played capped characters, &c.You recognize that this (and only this) allows for an infinite, continuous hunting environment, right?

Not true, I get it, and I was only lvl 130 at the time. I was losing enough skills/stats that the nerf was completely obvious. I'd no longer be fully trained in two weapon sets while still keeping my core skills intact, and I'd no longer have a shitload of extra training points with which to customize my character.

What level were you when the conversion happened, Latrinsorm? It's obvious to me you weren't past level 50. I'm not saying that as some kind of dig...to a lot of people leveling isn't that important. My point is more along the lines of "you don't care because it didn't affect you then, and it will never affect you". I just got to enjoy the time when it was all steak and caviar, and I didn't want to eat hot dogs (that is GS4!). To you, the hot dogs taste great...you've never had steak.

2 other points...I agree with Meges, I don't really give a flying fuck anymore, I'm just bored at work. I also agree with Celephais, allowing everyone to reallocate/restat months before the GS4 conversion was a big mistake, because everyone optimized their characters for the first time...I know I did. Then they nerfed the shit out of everyone (although lower level characters didn't notice it since they got thrown some crumbs) a few months later.

[Celephais]

The stat growth/training is arbitrary... if they expanded instead of compressed the level tree, they would just tweak the monsters to expect skills/stats maxed to the new levels. It's all arbitrary, the only difference is they slightly reduced the number of plateus... and actually by doing so they improved the diminishing returns.

Lets say they raised the cap to 200, instead of lowering it, but they let diminishing returns carry past 1 bonus per skill... after 50-60 gets you 0.5 bonus... then 0.25 etc etc... what with all your stats capping out, they would just tweak the monsters to expect characters with maxed stats.

[Tea & Strumpets]

The stat growth/training is arbitrary... if they expanded instead of compressed the level tree, they would just tweak the monsters to expect skills/stats maxed to the new levels. It's all arbitrary, the only difference is they slightly reduced the number of plateus... and actually by doing so they improved the diminishing returns.

Lets say they raised the cap to 200, instead of lowering it, but they let diminishing returns carry past 1 bonus per skill... after 50-60 gets you 0.5 bonus... then 0.25 etc etc... what with all your stats capping out, they would just tweak the monsters to expect characters with maxed stats.

That's assuming you keep training the same skills, and those skills only. While my weapon skills may be getting diminishing returns, the extra 60 levels of stat growth (which was also nerfed in GS4) allowed me to customize, like picking up completely new skills, or strengthening secondary and tertiary skills (ie. first aid, magic item use, scroll use, physical training, perception, etc.).

[Jolena]

What level were you two when the conversion happened?


Not sure if this was directed to me, but since it came right after someone quoted one of my responses, I'll bite.

When the change from GS3 to GS4 rolled in, Jolena was 38ish I think (been a long time, and I don't remember exactly but that's a pretty good estimate I guess). I lost I think 3 levels total. I remember that it was not something that I was all up in arms over, even if it was inconvenient.

Why?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Why?

As I mentioned in a few later posts, I don't think that those that didn't experience the higher levels in GS3 can appreciate how much was lost on the change to GS4.

[Jolena]

Oh I knew quite a few people who lost their levels, and I thought it was horrible for them. You're right though, having not had to go through it, I can't truly appreciate how it must have felt for those people.

I still don't see what that has to do with my response to the OP, though. Unless, of course, you weren't asking in regards to that.

Edited to add: I still think that the game is fun, though its not for everyone, as I stated. (which is what was quoted by the person who posted before you asked what level we were when GS4 rolled in)

[Tea & Strumpets]

I still don't see what that has to do with my response to the OP, though. Unless, of course, you weren't asking in regards to that.

Edited to add: I still think that the game is fun, though its not for everyone, as I stated. (which is what was quoted by the person who posted before you asked what level we were when GS4 rolled in)

Yeah, I was vague. The "you two" wasn't directed at you, but towards Celephais and Davenshire.

[CrystalTears]

I think he was asking the two posters above him, as they were saying it wasn't a big deal, so I don't think it had anything to do with you.

[Jolena]

Aha! My bad, thanks for clearing that up, as I was confuzzled.

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, with stat growth I had a shitload of "extra" training points even at level 90. That means all my core skills were fully trained, and I had plenty of TP's to diversify.It's impossible to have "all" your core skills fully trained in III unless you fully trained them every single level. We couldn't make up lost ground back then. If your definition of customizable character is tacking MIU on, then I would agree that there's no real difference between 3 and 4. I was thinking more along the lines of a qualitatively different choice from spell tanking and hide/ambush.
What level were you when the conversion happened, Latrinsorm?I think 4? I came back after some time away for GSIV because III was so constricting. (Of course, the deadline was a little late so I fooled around a little in 3.)
My point is more along the lines of "you don't care because it didn't affect you then, and it will never affect you".How convenient that would be for your position if it was true. Alas!
To call that arbitrary is assinine.What you've said is a very nice illustration of inflation: the raw number is irrelevant. What matters is what you can get for that number. Having 2.5x fewer TPs doesn't mean anything if you can get a lot more breadth for it.

[DwarvenTank]

Umm.... GS3 had a HARD cap of 160, so no more AS, CS, DS, TD to gain once you capped period. The highest you could train hunting was 145, then you had to pick, heal, raise, or gld for the last 15. Post cap in GS4 you can continue to increase your strengths be it Combat defense, TD, CS, AS by maxing all the skills you couldnt fit in the original 100 levels of TPs. So all in all, GS4 cap is 100% better then GS3 cap.

I played around with a 126 sorcerer that got bumped to 84, sure I was pissed to lose CS, DS, the fact that any jackass 20th level rogue could rub a blue crystal and madness and ambush kill me, but bugs got fixed and the game continued to evolve and now I have to say is much better.

And to calling Davanshire WRONG for saying that spell duration change helped LOW level characters because your 130th level character already got 2 hours per cast? Umm he said LOW level? Not to mention I can still cast 2 hours a shot or more at cap so I dont see how I'm any worse off. Also I love not having to worry about the 4 hour rollover and putting up 6+ hours of spells and not thinking about them for two days.

[StrayRogue]

It still pisses me off I have the same DS now at 66 as I did at level 25 in GS3.

[DwarvenTank]

Same Defense stance DS maybe, but remeber how shitty offensive DS used to be? 500 Defensive stance DS (over kill) and a 80 offensive stance at level 20.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I think 4? I came back after some time away for GSIV because III was so constricting. (Of course, the deadline was a little late so I fooled around a little in 3.)

Unfucking believable.


Having 2.5x fewer TPs doesn't mean anything if you can get a lot more breadth for it.

You don't get a lot more breadth for it for the 10th fucking time. Are you just dense, or not bothering to read anything I've written? I lost roughly 45 levels on the switch to GS4. I have NOWHERE NEAR as many skills as I did in GS3. I leveled back up to 100 in GS4, and I have NOWHERE NEAR the skills I had in GS3 at level 100 (which would be roughly level 75 in GS4). For the 10th time, the nerfing of stat growth as well as the 60 less levels, as well as all the new skills you have to train in (dodge, 2 kinds of mana share, other stupid shit) = less training points.

I don't know how I could explain it any more simply. I guess it doesn't matter to you since you are only playing the first 10 levels of the game. I'm still stunned that you quit GS3 at level 4 because it was so limiting (lol).

This is just a waste of time. We both have our opinions, and they are both equally valid. Yours just happens to encompass the game up to level 4 in GS3, and mine is based on the game up to level 130, including the conversion to level 85ish.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Umm.... GS3 had a HARD cap of 160, so no more AS, CS, DS, TD to gain once you capped period. The highest you could train hunting was 145, then you had to pick, heal, raise, or gld for the last 15. Post cap in GS4 you can continue to increase your strengths be it Combat defense, TD, CS, AS by maxing all the skills you couldnt fit in the original 100 levels of TPs. So all in all, GS4 cap is 100% better then GS3 cap.


I can't believe that hunting a nerfed OTF for 3 years is promoted as a positive.

[Artha]

GS3 had a HARD cap of 160
Depends on when you're talking about. It used to have a soft cap somewhere in the 360s.

[Liberi Fatali]

Depends on when you're talking about. It used to have a soft cap somewhere in the 360s.

Does anyone know the precise date when GS3 switched to GSIV? I don't have the time at the moment to go through my logs to see. I did find, however, some skill shots that I thought were intriguing.

This is from 8/12/02, when I was rather ill-trained:

>skill
Jenovadeath (at level 134), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Bonus Rank
-------------------------------------------------------------
Armor Use : 93 [21]
Shield Use : 188 [88]
Combat Maneuvers : 117 [29]
Edged Weapons : 188 [88]
Climbing : 138 [39]
Swimming : 111 [27]
Disarm Traps : 128 [34]
Pick Locks : 128 [34]
Stalking & Hiding : 30 [6]
Perception : 167 [67]
Scroll Reading : 144 [44]
Magic Item Use : 149 [49]
Mana Sharing : 198 [98]
Spell Aiming : 220 [120]
Physical Training : 102 [24]
First Aid : 150 [50]
Picking Pockets : 117 [29]
Physical Training Points : 1
>info
An Ithzir janissary swings a spiral-hafted crystal-edged handaxe at you!
AS: +568 vs DS: +947 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +24 = -317
A clean miss.
Name: Jenovadeath Nattak Race: Dark Elf Profession: Sorcerer (shown as: Sorcerer)
Gender: Male Age: 3000 Expr: 6239484 Level: 134
Currently Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO): 79 .... 9
Dexterity (DE): 100 .... 35
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 15
Logic (LO): 84 .... 17
Intelligence (IN): 100 .... 30
Strength (ST): 89 .... 19
Reflexes (RE): 95 .... 27
Charisma (CH): 63 .... 1
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 30
Aura (AU): 100 .... 35
Mana: 368 Silver: 1402
>spell

Your spell lists:
Minor Elemental...77
Minor Spirit......76
Sorcerer Circle...154
Use SPELL ALL to view detailed list of spells.
>exp
Level: 134 Experience: 6239598
Next level at: 6250000 exp. Exp. until next lvl: 10402
Family Fame: 709438471 Character Fame: 709438471
Deeds: 32 Deaths this level: 1
Mana: 134/402 Max

Your mind can't take much more of this! You must rest!




I assume this is just after GSIV went live, as my stats are all maxed: 6/14/03:

Name: Jenovadeath Nattak Race: Dark Elf Profession: Sorcerer (shown as: Sorcerer)
Gender: Male Age: 3000 Expr: 6502890 Level: 140
Currently Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO): 100 .... 20
Dexterity (DE): 100 .... 35
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 15
Logic (LO): 100 .... 25
Intelligence (IN): 100 .... 30
Strength (ST): 100 .... 25
Reflexes (RE): 100 .... 30
Charisma (CH): 100 .... 20
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 30
Aura (AU): 100 .... 35
Mana: 104 Silver: 490
>Jenovadeath (at level 140), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Bonus Rank
-------------------------------------------------------------
Armor Use : 40 [8]
Shield Use : 241 [141]
Edged Weapons : 241 [141]
Climbing : 90 [20]
Swimming : 90 [20]
Perception : 241 [141]
Scroll Reading : 241 [141]
Magic Item Use : 241 [141]
Mana Sharing : 382 [282]
Spell Aiming : 382 [282]
Physical Training : 90 [20]
First Aid : 143 [43]
Physical Training Points : 53
Mental Training Points : 8
>spell

Your spell lists:
Minor Elemental...70
Minor Spirit......70
Sorcerer Circle...162
Use SPELL ALL to view detailed list of spells.




And lastly: 10/06/02:

>info
Race: Half-Elven
Profession: Wizard (shown as: Wizard)
Gender: Male
Age: 238
Expr: 10157191
Level: 213
................Currently..Stat Bonus
Constitution (CO)....85.......17
Dexterity (DE)......100.......30
Discipline (DI).....100.......20
Logic (LO)..........100.......25
Intelligence (IN)...100.......25
Strength (ST).......100.......25
Reflexes (RE).......100.......35
Charisma (CH)........90.......25
Wisdom (WI)..........85.......17
Aura (AU)...........100.......25
Mana: 230 Silver: 31
>skill
(at level 213), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill............................Bonus Rank
--------------------------------------------
Armor Use.........................128 [34]
Shield Use........................271 [171]
Combat Maneuvers..................200 [100]
Edged Weapons.....................271 [171]
Climbing..........................200 [100]
Swimming..........................200 [100]
Multi-Opponent Combat..............20 [4]
Disarm Traps......................171 [71]
Pick Locks........................171 [71]
Stalking & Hiding.................200 [100]
Perception........................242 [142]
Scroll Reading....................271 [171]
Magic Item Use....................271 [171]
Mana Sharing......................171 [71]
Spell Aiming......................528 [428]
Ambush............................128 [34]
Physical Training.................128 [34]
First Aid.........................200 [100]
Trading...........................242 [142]
Picking Pockets...................171 [71]
Brawling..........................128 [34]
>spell
Your spell lists:
Major Elemental...62
Minor Elemental...110
Wizard Circle.....191





Jadall

Level 245

Stats:
Constitution (CO): 100 .... 25
Dexterity (DE): 95 .... 27
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 20
Logic (LO): 100 .... 25
Intelligence (IN): 100 .... 25
Strength (ST): 100 .... 25
Reflexes (RE): 100 .... 35
Charisma (CH): 100 .... 30
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 100 .... 25
Mana: 735 Silver: 0


Skills:
Armor Use : 86 [19]
Shield Use : 344 [244]
Combat Maneuvers : 299 [199]
Edged Weapons : 343 [243]
Blunt Weapons : 5 [1]
Ranged Weapons : 10 [2]
Climbing : 151 [51]
Swimming : 138 [39]
Multi-Opponent Combat : 114 [28]
Disarm Traps : 253 [153]
Pick Locks : 281 [181]
Stalking & Hiding : 144 [44]
Perception : 232 [132]
Scroll Reading : 144 [44]
Magic Item Use : 234 [134]
Mana Sharing : 278 [178]
Spell Aiming : 166 [66]
Ambush : 149 [49]
Physical Training : 148 [48]
First Aid : 260 [160]
Trading : 140 [40]
Picking Pockets : 138 [39]
Brawling : 70 [15]


Spells:
Your spell lists:
Major Spirit......58
Minor Spirit......161
Empath Circle.....50
Use SPELL ALL to view detailed list of spells.

[Oniros]

Does any one else find this whole topic ridiculous? Gemstone III doesn't exist anymore except in your memories. Who cares how Gemstone III worked any longer? The option that we have is Gemstone IV with its rules and levels. To argue which is better or if the game has been improved is just an exercise in futility. Time to let the old game go. I know some people devoted much of their lives to that game but this is what you have so love it or leave it as far as Gemstone IV goes but let Gemstone III die please.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah I don't know why we would want to discuss how the game changed so drastically for some that it ruined the game for them enough to quit. Why fix something that some people don't consider broken, right Mr. Crazy? :tongue:

[Asha]

omg Virilneus' petition?
HE WAS GONNA LEAVE IF THEY DIDNT STOP THE CHANGES!
Simu shit their pants.

[Oniros]

The game is only broken if you look at it compared to Gemstone III and you thought Gemstone III was pretty well near perfect. Which, it appears, Simutronics thought it was far from.

I don't even speak french but here goes...ce la vie

It is like the cliched old men sitting around pining for the good old days. For better or for worse things have changed.

[Tea & Strumpets]

The game is only broken if you look at it compared to Gemstone III and you thought Gemstone III was pretty well near perfect. Which, it appears, Simutronics thought it was far from.

I don't even speak french but here goes...ce la vie

It is like the cliched old men sitting around pining for the good old days. For better or for worse things have changed.

You raise some very cogent points. Perhaps it would be more fitting if I found a more appropriate forum to share my thoughts on Gemstone.

[Oniros]

I am just saying that Gemstone III is dead. Even the title of this forum is The Gemstone IV Players' Corner...

Long live Gemstone III!

[Latrinsorm]

I'm still stunned that you quit GS3 at level 4 because it was so limiting (lol). If you'll recall, you asked what level my character was when the conversion happened. I noted that I had returned to GemStone, implying that I had been here before. When I returned, I didn't have any characters, so I only got one up to level 4. I didn't think this would need italicized explanations, but here we are. I had a repelling cleric and a polearming warrior back in the day. If you can tell me with a straight face that my experience then would have been substantially different and positive past the 40s (besides the gap) then I'm going to have to have a chortle at your expense.
I leveled back up to 100 in GS4, and I have NOWHERE NEAR the skills I had in GS3 at level 100 This is an equivocation on the number "100": put another way, this is a senseless comparison. Stat growth is different, TP calculations are different, etc.
as well as all the new skills you have to train in Nobody "has" to train in dodge or any of the mana controls.

It's especially baffling how you try to claim lesser customizability now when you note how we have more skills. How well do you think Gaerit's 3x dodge armorless warrior would have worked in GSIII? How is it that we have many more viable character archetypes now but less customizability?

[Tea & Strumpets]

It's especially baffling how you try to claim lesser customizability now when you note how we have more skills. How well do you think Gaerit's 3x dodge armorless warrior would have worked in GSIII? How is it that we have many more viable character archetypes now but less customizability?

What is baffling is that you have no experience or knowledge of the high level game, but continue to expound on why GS4 is better with less training points. Grats on your low level training paths being more viable.

I've told you repeatedly that I had to drop numerous skills (including one extra weapon set) in order to still be viable hunting, but I'm convinced you clamp your hands over your eyes every time I mention it. I mention the new skills you have to train in, such as mana share, and you make the brilliant response that I don't have to train in mana share. Well thanks a ton for that insight! Your solution is just to lose more skills and everything will be fine...great.

There is no comparison, GS3 allowed far more diversity. I've been level 130 in GS3, and level 100 in GS4. I was very aware of all the skills that I was losing. You've never even played the game where you need 125k experience to level, yet you continue to speak with authority on the subject.

Anyway, it's obvious we'll never agree, and arguing with you is like banging your head against the wall. You tend to focus on semantics and nitpicking, and ignore any inconvenient facts.

[Latrinsorm]

I've told you repeatedly that I had to drop numerous skills (including one extra weapon set) in order to still be viable hunting, but I'm convinced you clamp your hands over your eyes every time I mention it.I just couldn't figure out a diplomatic way to say you were stretching the truth. :sorry: It's ridiculously easy to be viable in GSIV.

Speaking of inconvenient facts, how is it that you've never addressed the builds I brought up that were absolutely unviable in GSIV but suddenly became viable after III? Or is that "nitpicking"?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Speaking of inconvenient facts, how is it that you've never addressed the builds I brought up that were absolutely unviable in GSIV but suddenly became viable after III? Or is that "nitpicking"?

Because they have nothing to do with the price of tea in china? I never denied that GS4 made some nice improvements. I also never claimed that GS3 had no problems and that it was perfect. My whole argument has been that the end-game was ruined on the conversion to GS4--that's my opinion. Your whole argument seems to be "it affected me positively, so who gives a flying fuck?"

What would you have liked me to say? That you're mentioning some guy that trains 3x dodge and no armor has convinced me that I didn't mind losing a truckload of skills? I know you think I'm a liar and that I didn't lose any skills, but it's the simple truth.

[Nilandia]

I've told you repeatedly that I had to drop numerous skills (including one extra weapon set) in order to still be viable hunting, but I'm convinced you clamp your hands over your eyes every time I mention it.
It occurs to me that part of the reason why you might have had so many fewer training points is because the way training points and stats were calculated.

Given you were such high level at the time of the conversion, I might suppose you rolled your character up at the time of the mangler, where you could just run a program and get stats that were much higher than what is currently possible. These higher stats could allow for more training points than the current stat placements would permit. You will, of course, correct me if I suppose incorrectly.

Something else to keep in mind is the way in which certain stats figure into the calculations of training points. In GS3, Aura and Discipline were crucial in determining your training points, since they counted for both your physical and mental point totals. Now, Aura and Discipline still factor into both point pools, but they only count for half of what they did, and a profession's primary stats are doubled in importance. Stat placements doubtless were affected in many cases, which may lead to different numbers of training points available each level.

In each case, I'm not entirely certain how much of an effect there might be upon the training point totals and stat placements, but they might be worth looking at.

One of my characters took a good hit to levels during the conversion as well, but I've also completely reconfigured stats and training, so I can't really compare between GS3 and GS4 too well. As it is, the character's doing splendidly, and I've been pondering clipping a few skills that I don't seem to need to put them into secondaries and tertiaries.

Gretchen

[Tea & Strumpets]

I just couldn't figure out a diplomatic way to say you were stretching the truth. :sorry: It's ridiculously easy to be viable in GSIV.


You're missing the point again. I know hunting is easy and it would be easy to make a viable character. You're telling a guy that crashed his Aston Martin (shoutout to my boy Tsin), "Just go buy a 1975 VW van. You'll still be able to get to work etc., what's the problem!?"

[CrystalTears]

T&S isn't the only one that lost quite a few levels to the conversion and noticed a difference in their play. Losing as little as 10 levels means losing ranks in skills you used to have no matter how you slice it.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Bit of a tangent here, but I feel there should be some kind of prize if you manage to work an Aston Martin analogy into a Gemstone conversation. And I mean a GOOD prize (that's a pre-emptive strike for any of you fuckers considering posting special olympics winners).

[Latrinsorm]

My whole argument has been that the end-game was ruined on the conversion to GS4--that's my opinion. Your whole argument seems to be "it affected me positively, so who gives a flying fuck?"If you want to say your particular character had a problem, then I wouldn't have argued with you. What I asked was "Are you seriously suggesting that in the pre-fixskills, pre-migration era it was easier to customize a character?" Numerous new builds (and no required rerolling) can only mean that it's easier to customize a character. That your particular build is no longer around is entirely irrelevant to how easy it is to customize a character.

I'm glad we cleared that up. :) What I'm "telling" you is that not everyone has to drive an Aston-Martin or a BMW anymore: now you can drive a Porsche, a Ferrari, a pickup truck, your beloved VW van, a scooter, a Saturn, a PT cruiser, a tractor-trailer, etc. The point is that the list is much, much longer now. Minus two plus eighteen is a positive number.

[DwarvenTank]

I can't believe that hunting a nerfed OTF for 3 years is promoted as a positive.

So not being able to continue to increase your skills at all like the hard cap of 160 is a better idea in your opinion? If you dont like the "nerfed OTF" then go to teras, wait for the 130th level hunting grounds, play in the Adventures guild, heal, pick, raise, etc. You could gain nothing from any of that in GS3 once you capped.


Depends on when you're talking about. It used to have a soft cap somewhere in the 360s.

True, but what a hand full of empaths and one lockpicking warrior actually passed the 160th level before the hard cap? You could only do so by picking, healing, and raising reliably, gld work was a joke.

[StrayRogue]

No one ever got over level 300 in GS3.

[Trouble]

No one ever got over level 300 in GS3.

Yeah, IIRC, the exp/mana pulse calculation involved the character's level divided by 300 (or something like that) so that once someone hit 300, the equation broke. When a couple of people started approaching that is when they started talking about implementing caps. I think.

[Baerlynd]

Hi! Anyone remember me? I was the OP. Anyway, we seem to have gotten sidetracked. At any rate, I started playing again 3 days ago and I am enjoying it a great deal. Sorry to stir up such a shitstorm with what i thought was a rather innocent enough question.

FWIW, I am liking the changes I have seen, and love the bounty system. Thanks for your input!

[Davenshire]

LOL Baelrynd!

Yer absolutely right. All the old GS'rs just jumped on the band wagon and pirated your thread! I think a new thread should be put up. Maybe "QQ, how gemstone3 to gemstone 4 ruined my life."


So what race profession did you pick! I'd highly suggest asking for guidance on the regular forums. It is usually safe to get help here also, just don't read past the 4th or 5th reply ;)

Givem hell ayas!

[Celephais]

Yeah, IIRC, the exp/mana pulse calculation involved the character's level divided by 300 (or something like that) so that once someone hit 300, the equation broke. When a couple of people started approaching that is when they started talking about implementing caps. I think.

Yes, infact the problem occured well before people started getting close to 300, because of the fact it was a "divide by 300" as people neared it their exp absorbtion really skyrocketed, so it actually became easier to level as you got higher level. I'm trying to remember the formula...

Something like 12 + (Amount in bucket / (50 - (level / 6))) absorbed a pulse. (Log and Int bonuses factored in too... maybe they added directly to your level, I forget)

With bucket sizes ranging up to 1000, at level 294 it meant you absorbed everything every pulse... at 240 you were absorbing 112 exp a minute... basically people were on perma-triple X, and with 50k exp levels, people could level more than once a day if they kept their head filled.

[Baerlynd]

LOL Baelrynd!

Yer absolutely right. All the old GS'rs just jumped on the band wagon and pirated your thread! I think a new thread should be put up. Maybe "QQ, how gemstone3 to gemstone 4 ruined my life."


So what race profession did you pick! I'd highly suggest asking for guidance on the regular forums. It is usually safe to get help here also, just don't read past the 4th or 5th reply ;)

Givem hell ayas!
I picked an Elf Wizard. I am enjoying it thusfar. I really like a wizards versatility. Yes, that sounds weird for a pure to say, but whatever. With a wide variety of utility, protection and damage spells they really are useful in a lot of situations.

The Adventurer's Guild is just great. I really like most of the tasks and as a time sink, it's not so horrid, especially given the rewards. At any rate, so far so good and thanks for the input.

[Methais]

I have missed the roleplaying you can find on Gemstone as compared to the graphical games I've played of late.

RP in GS these days consists primarily of watching people be afk.

[Davenshire]

It's not that bad methais you just have to look. All the old school folks get tired of waiting on healers/clerics/locksmiths. so they all either start multi accounting, or buy a bunch of chars and swap them out.

I somewhat have to agree with you though meth, it seems like Gemstone at times is a haven for 90% of the autistic people on the globe.

If oyu still look you can find people to grab ass with. its just hard, most dont have the patience to try and teach newbling turnip farmers the ropes, "yet again."

If ya have any questions on wizards please drop me a line bael, mine is currently 63rd and I am having a blast with him.

[Methais]

It's not that bad methais you just have to look. All the old school folks get tired of waiting on healers/clerics/locksmiths. so they all either start multi accounting, or buy a bunch of chars and swap them out.

I somewhat have to agree with you though meth, it seems like Gemstone at times is a haven for 90% of the autistic people on the globe.

If oyu still look you can find people to grab ass with. its just hard, most dont have the patience to try and teach newbling turnip farmers the ropes, "yet again."

If ya have any questions on wizards please drop me a line bael, mine is currently 63rd and I am having a blast with him.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it's just pretty rare these days. At least that's how it was when I started playing again for a few months this past fall. I'd come back from a hunt and everyone at the statue or wherever is afk 99% of the time.

The game just doesn't feel alive anymore.

[CrystalTears]

I think it's pretty sad that in a roleplaying game you're told that you have to really look for the roleplaying.

[Methais]

See Sean2's Simu motto in other thread.

[Baerlynd]

I have found some roleplaying already. The Bounty System has really made it more easy for me to roleplay. I should say rather, that it give me more time to. I am no longer locked into a pattern of hardcore hunt till fried, drop to becoming, spellup, repeat. I can now get saturated and then have an abundance of time to roleplay, hang out, pick fights, hit on married women and drink.

I am seeing more roleplay (perhaps because I am initiating it or looking for it?) than I have since than ever in GS4. It reminds me more of my GS3 days, actually. All in all I am thrilled I chose to come back.

Also, Daven, thanks for the offer of help! I pretty much know what I am doing until level 40. I played a wizard in GS4 until level 40 once before, and I have a training plan laid out already.

[RichardCranium]

What town have you started in?

[Baerlynd]

I started in Vaalor and will move to River's Rest as soon as I master CoL.

[Zarli]

There's actually a lot of RP in Vaalor surprisingly enough. There's also a lot of people that make you want to hurt them with their OOC, but I guess when you get a few that are honestly new to the game you have to expect a little at first. I've had some great RP experiences in my younger characters in Vaalor, good place to come back to.