One reason I love being a sorcerer!

[Akari]

Spelling up a poor defensless child while I torment the moulis in the next room... I can't make up my mind... Is Akari good or Evil?


[Maaghara Labyrinth]
The size of the tunnel becomes constricted with vine-like roots. Part of a dusty old spider web dangles from the wall. Strands of old web cling to the hanging roots, gathering dust while bone fragments and smaller stones rest along the wall. You also see a young elven child, the translucent Lamie disk and a massive root.
Also here: Lamie
Obvious exits: north, southwest

You nod to Lamie in greeting.

You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +406 - TD: +233 + CvA: +25 + d100: +42 == +240
Warding failed!

Lamie gestures at a young elven child.
A young elven child looks considerably more imposing.

Lamie smiles.

A sudden flare of bright light bursts in front of you!

You gesture at a young elven child.
A light blue glow surrounds a young elven child.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Lamie softly asks, "Need help with something?"

You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +406 - TD: +233 + CvA: +25 + d100: +83 == +281
Warding failed!

Lamie peers quizzically at you.

You gesture at a young elven child.
A deep blue glow surrounds a young elven child.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You shake your head.

You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +406 - TD: +233 + CvA: +25 + d100: +42 == +240
Warding failed!
You feel the presence take the moulis's life.
>
Lamie smiles.

Lamie nods.

You gesture at a young elven child.
A young elven child suddenly looks more powerful.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You nod.

The surface of the wall suddenly seems to writhe and buckle! Woody tubers spring outward, flailing, to be followed by smaller roots and hair strands as a moulis scuttles into view!

You wave.

Lamie recites a series of mystical phrases while raising her hands...

You gesture at a moulis.
CS: +406 - TD: +311 + CvA: +25 + d100: +55 == +175
Warding failed!
Its eyes flash with a searing jolt of light!
It is heavily stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Lamie gestures at a young elven child.
A young elven child begins moving faster than you thought possible.
>n
[Maaghara Labyrinth]
Thin roots hang from the ceiling down toward the tunnel floor like long strands of hair. A few patches of green luminous slime growing on the wall bring some relief from the oppressive darkness. You also see a moulis scraping and a moulis that appears dead.
Obvious exits: east, south, northwest
>loot
You search the moulis.
It had 183 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 183 coins.
It had nothing else of value.
A moulis crumbles into a putrid compost.

[Xaerve]

I don't get it :(

[Kainen]

It's an Akari thing.

[Necromancer]

He was holding a conversation while simultaneously killing a creature in another room. One of the perks of sorcery.

[Asha]

I honestly used to think the same. Which abruptly ended when hunting OTF with pretty much no defence against maneuvers.
Good ride till then though.

[Fallen]

Ash..you were an archer! Pile on the padding, Get an animate to kill things while you are stunned, have 717/719 in your cloak with a high CS, keep encumbrance down to min with Phase, and Spell tank with Scroll infusion.

I have died since going MCP. Both times were completely my fault, and had nothing to do with maneuvers.

[Asha]

I dunno, we both had that divide where being dangerous or defensive was our goals.
I definately believe as an archer sorc there's no other sorcerer who could take a griffin down faster. That was the RT defense I had.
You are a defense sorcerer and in the end I suppose you're right. With all your defenses you're as nails as a so-so trained rogue. But I promised myself from the beginning I would never hunt with anything I couldn't cast myself.
There was RP at the beginiing where that was important and I kept it that way till the end, like instantly decaying so no one could touch his body.

In retrospect, you're right. Being a sorcerer was pretty awesome.

[Fallen]

Yeah. Most self-reliant profession in the game.

[Asha]

:D

[Drew]

Yeah. Most self-reliant profession in the game.



Huh? Every profession can make it through the whole game without outside help.

[Fallen]

Can anyone else check for traps and open 3/4th their own boxes, even without a single rank of Disarm/unlock? 400's circle and 100's circle access allows for this. Can anyone else hunt with nearly every defensive spell in the game without using other people to get them? We can make our own hunting partner via 730. We can travel anywhere we please instantly. We can scout an area without moving. We can deliver items/messages and track those hidden/invisible from afar.

Other classes can do some of these things without aid. A Sorcerer can do them all. Self reliance extends beyond being able to just get by. Getting by without MAing, that is.

[Drew]

Guess I'd rather be a ranger where we have almost all those abilities except we don't need to spell tank to play.

[Drew]

Not to mention level 4 critters can't maneuver us and give us bleeders:

[OOC]-Akari: "A whiptail spins a web at you! You get caught by the webbing at an inopportune moment causing you to trip and fall! As you fall, you land awkwardly on your arm, something snaps and waves of pain shoot up your arm!"

[StrayRogue]

lol @ being able to open 3/4 of all boxes in the game. Thats hardly a feat, considering there's not one, not two, not three...but five professions with the elemental sphere available to them.

All the sorc's abilities are replicated in other ways as well.

[StrayRogue]

I'd personally say empath's are the most self-reliant. They have far more hunting and training options than any other pure (except maybe wizard), make shit loads of money and never have a lack of exp. Smack a sorc in the arm and he's fucked etc etc.

[Fallen]

Heh

Herbs > Empath

I wont lie, though. I love using Ranger and Empath spells. I keep nearly all of them on hand. As for boxes, without the ability to check for traps, you end up zapping yourself all the time with Call lightning reflecting, not to mention passing up all the treasure on traps you could have disarmed. Being a wizard with no access to Call Lightning, any trap that is lethal will either have to be taken to a locksmith, or you risk your life trying to disarm it.

[Necromancer]

Not surprisingly I agree with Evarin. A sorcerer is the only profession that can find hidden and invisible people. They're the only profession that can break sanctuaries. They're the only profession that can kill from another room. They're the only profession that can make you unable to use your own items (curse). They're the only profession that has a chance to stop a pickpocket without a single rank of pick pocketing. They're the only profession that can kill any single stunnable creature in the game, regardless of level. They can reduce their own encumbrance far beyond that of any other profession, if need be. They can transport across realms without any outside aid, and they can do so 8-9 times a day for what it would cost any other profession to do it twice. They have the most offensively powerful 'pet' spell in GS (cute singing sword you have there...wanna see my singing claidhmore?). They can kill an enemy simply by being hit. They can heal themselves while simultaneously killing another creature. They are the best equipped to deal with spell casting creatures. They have the longest duration stun in the game (and cheapest).

The new owner of Quert was in shock for days after I gave him the tutorial on being a sorcerer. His head was spinning over all of the things he never realized sorcerers could do if trained properly, and if their player was knowledgable. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of balancing that goes into it ($$$), but I don't think most people realize just how many bags of tricks a given sorcerer has.

[Fallen]

Ya know what? Nevermind. I'm completely wrong. All other classes = Better than sorcerers. Nothing to see here, folks.

[Paradii]

Not surprisingly I agree with Evarin. A sorcerer is the only profession that can find hidden and invisible people.

Rangers have sunburst and dispel invisibility...

78 percent of facts are made up on the spot.

[Fallen]

I love sunburst. Great spell.

[Tea & Strumpets]

A sorcerer is the only profession that can find hidden and invisible people.

How, some kind of demon thing?

[StrayRogue]

All the sorcerer's abilities, save one or two are replicated in GS by items and other abilities.

[Fallen]

Well, lets break it down:

Scroll Infusion = Charge item?
Planar Shift = Navigator Orbs
Minor Summoning = Call Familiar
Animate Dead = Sing Sword/Animal Companion
Eye Spy/Minor Summoning Combo = Call Familiar
720 = Spikethorn, perhaps Meteor Swarm
712 < Beseech, /= Bard Rally, Troll's Blood, =Temporal Reversion

So yeah, if you're willing to lay down some silver and are a wizard, Ranger, or Bard, you can emulate most of the sorcerer's abilities without much outside aid.

[CrystalTears]

The debate of which class is best is always a problem because it's about preference, imo. However stating that sorcerors are the most self-reliant class is really pushing it as all classes are capable of doing everything on their own by several means.

[B4Hand]

Heh

Herbs > Empath




Blah..That's all I have to say about that.

[Akari]

anyone that does not think sorcerers are superior in almost every way... has either not played one... (I have a char of every profession, and ALL are atleast to title)
OR, they didn't know what the hell they were doing when they did play one... If you are not trained right, your sorcerer will suck... probably moreso then any other profession.
anyways... I'll give another example of why I love being a sorcerer (a well trained one...)

WHEN SOMEONE HAS 20 TRAINS ON YOU, THEY SHOULD STILL NEVER UNDERESTIMATE YOU...


Xxxxxx steps forward and challenges you to a duel to the first stun as a test of skill!
You have the option of using CHALLENGE ACCEPT or CHALLENGE REFUSE.

Xxxxxx whistles tunelessly to himself.

You chant the words for Dark Catalyst which causes your skin to turn shadowy for a brief moment.

You accept Xxxxxx's challenge!

An animated human marauder stares, seething in anger!

Xxxxxx laughs at you!

Xxxxxx laughs at you!

Xxxxxx laughs at you!

You grin.

Xxxxxx asks, "Are you serious?"

Xxxxxx starts chuckling at you!

You shrug.

You gesture at Xxxxxx.
CS: +410 - TD: +318 + CvA: -21 + d100: +45 == +116
Warding failed!
His eyes flash with a searing jolt of light!
He is lightly stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

Xxxxxx is stunned! You have prevailed!

You say, "I win."

An animated human marauder scowls angrily.

Some other guy laughs!

You gesture at Xxxxxx.
Xxxxxx is able to move again.
The glazed look leaves Xxxxxx.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Xxxxxx falls to the ground laughing hysterically!

An animated human marauder shifts around, looking indecisive.

Xxxxxx rolls around on the ground laughing hysterically!

[Fallen]

I think people are willing to acknowledge that sorcerers are self-reliant characters, but they truly believe that they can be outperformed in certain areas without outside aid. Rangers recently lost a step to me with the global thought net release. Yes, PSInet was already in place. Before that was IMs. However, now it is perfectly IC to talk to someone else who is realms away IG. 605 needs an uptweak.

What were one of the main suggestions given? Allow the spell to have the person be able to whisper a message back to the caster...just like in Minor Summoning.

[Tea & Strumpets]

WHEN SOMEONE HAS 20 TRAINS ON YOU, THEY SHOULD STILL NEVER UNDERESTIMATE YOU...



You've gotta be shitting me. Warding a rogue or warrior that has 20 levels on you in no way proves anything about sorcerors.

Sorcerors aren't the super class regardless of your bias. although they do have some nice utility spells. I've killed NPC's with 180 levels on my character that were intended to be unkillable, but to present that as proof that my class is obviously the best would be assinine.

[Akari]

So, your char has killed something that was intended to be unkillable... congratulations on achieving something that sorcerers can do easily.
Oh, and refer to my comments
1: has either not played one...
2: OR, they didn't know what the hell they were doing when they did play one...

As I have said, I play chars of every profession... I am very aware of game mechanics and training plans for all professions... I feel that Fallen has given several reasons as proof... however, I feel that trying to explain this to someone who has not experienced for themselves is a lost cause.

quote Sorcerors aren't the super class regardless of your bias. unquote

I'd say my opinion is far from bais as within my 16 years of GS I have played (and still play) every profession... (36 chars) And every char I have is well trained (a few mutant chars may be arguable)

So, I would say my opinion is far from bias... maybe the ones that argue that sorcerers aren't superior are the bias ones? sounds like it to me...

hmmm, maybe you don't know what you are missing out on... fine by me, I'm definately not missing out on any profession

[CrystalTears]

Hope you're not getting a nosebleed from that high perch you're sitting on.

[Akari]

I don't think anyone can deny that a 410 CS at 75 trains is lovely... and besides it wasn't just the fact that I warded a char 20 levels over me... it's the fact that I only had to roll a 30 to do it... regardless of the plate CvA...

[Akari]

Hope you're not getting a nosebleed from that high perch you're sitting on.

simply stating facts...

[CrystalTears]

Opinions aren't facts.

[Akari]

OK, it's an opinion that I have chars of every profession... It's an opinion that I've been playing for 16 years... I give... it's ALL opinion
like I said... it's a lost cause to try to make someone else understand, so I gracefully bow out... all professions are better then sorcerers. Happy?

[CrystalTears]

I'm just saying you're entitled to believe that sorcerors are the best. I'm also saying that people who don't agree with you are also entitled to their opinion of which class is best. What you're doing it insulting those who don't agree with you. So yeah, the ego was starting to bug me.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I'm just saying you're entitled to believe that sorcerors are the best. I'm also saying that people who don't agree with you are also entitled to their opinion of which class is best. What you're doing it insulting those who don't agree with you. So yeah, the ego was starting to bug me.

Maybe you are just afraid to admit the truth about sorcerors!

Since you can easily kill level 300 characters simply by mentioning to them that you are a sorceror, Akari, how many lvl 300 NPC's have you killed with your 32 characters and 16 years of play?

[Martaigne]

36 characters.

Yay for me, I contributed!

[CrystalTears]

Where's Soulpieced when you need him when years played come up? :D

[Asha]

I love when years of play is put out there like it's a good thing.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Lou Bega
I don't think anyone can deny that a 410 CS at 75 trains is lovely... and besides it wasn't just the fact that I warded a char 20 levels over me... it's the fact that I only had to roll a 30 to do it... regardless of the plate CvA...

I used to cast blind on Edaarin when he was spelled up and post capped when I was ~80. Obviously this is irrefutable proof that Clerics are the best profession in the game. I mean stunning older squares with ease is certainly proof enough.

[CrystalTears]

Pft, empaths can sanct a whole room at will at any level.

[Celephais]

Is meteor swarm level based?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Nope.

[Kainen]

Haha at the Lou Bega thing, but this subject is just a stupid one to begin with. Everyone has thier own opnions and no ones going to give ground. How many times we gotta have this arguement anyways?

[Necromancer]

Sunburst is great; Querthose always kept a scroll of it on his person.

However, you misunderstand my statement. I never said sorcerers were the only profession who could bring hidden/invisible people out of hiding. I said they were the only profession that can *find* hidden and invisible people. That is to say that you can hide or go invisible and run from a sorcerer, but that sorcerer has the means to track you down and find you anyway. Assuming he has some combination of knowledge, luck, and skill.

And all professions are self-reliant in GS, that's true. But that doesn't mean they're equally self-reliant. A sorcerer is the *most* self-reliant profession in the game; largely due to 714. But I think it would be fair to say that since all professions are largely self-reliant, that doesn't necessarily mean a ton (or, rather, as much as it would mean if some professions weren't self-reliant at all).

And Akari's point is a key one. Sorcerers are on a broad range from a less interesting version of a cleric to arguably the most powerful characters in GS. It used to be that what one feared was the sorcerer with the highest CS. But things have shifted in the past couple of years. The big name sorcerers whom you'd least want to screw with have two things in common: 1. they're total bastards on the boards (ha) and 2. they're the ones with the largest mental store of sorcery information in their heads. And, sadly, there is no profession in GS whose members are as collectively ignorant about their class skills and abilities as sorcery. But, if you do manage to hit a decent level (75+), and you train your sorcerer (and yourself) properly...yes, you're looking at one of the most dangerous characters in the game.

It just so happens there aren't many out there who do meet these requirements.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Haha at the Lou Bega thing, but this subject is just a stupid one to begin with. Everyone has thier own opnions and no ones going to give ground. How many times we gotta have this arguement anyways?

Arguing about nonsense is good, clean fun.

[StrayRogue]

How can you be self-reliant if you need outside items (ie herbs) to keep yourself alive?

[CrystalTears]

Haha at the Lou Bega thing, but this subject is just a stupid one to begin with. Everyone has thier own opnions and no ones going to give ground. How many times we gotta have this arguement anyways?
You say this a lot about different discussions on these boards. What exactly is worthy of discussion for you?

Besides, your boy started it.

[Necromancer]

I would say it's not very outside if you have a spell on your primary list that specifically works with said item.

[Stanley Burrell]

The only time warriors should be using scrolls is to roll them up and beat people with crit weighted papyrus.

I'm on a warrior tangent today, my apologies in advance.

[Stanley Burrell]

And just for kicks, the fact that you can have a warrior training in MIU or Scroll Reading to get a meteor swarm card doesn't make it "O.K." to fit their hunting regime.

Sorcerers don't guild train to learn focused implosion. Warriors getting "you've got the Warcry/Berserk/Wtrick Guzzle option, stop complaining", is why they (warriors) are sucking the rolton pp as we speak :(

[Fallen]

How can you be self-reliant if you need outside items (ie herbs) to keep yourself alive?>>

Are we defining self-reliant as not selling things to stores to gain silver? I mean, you are relying on the NPC store clerk for the exhange.

With scroll infusion, I do not need a wizard to get a wizard spellup, and I can use nearly every spell level 1-19 that any class can use. If I have 3 instances of 503, 507, 905, and 508 on scrolls, that means I have ATLEAST 60 uses of those spells. With any luck, and odds willing, I will get closer to 80. You can split hairs if you wish. I have hunted with 503 every hunt of OTF. Why? The spell is all but mine. I do not MA for it as most warriors/rogues do. I obtain them from the treasure system, or from the pawnshop. Again, if you want to call buying stuff from NPCs as not self-reliant, then yeah. Heh, I guess you win. Empaths hands down.

[Kainen]

Arguing about nonsense is good, clean fun.

Ok you have a point there :D

[Drew]

Scroll infusion is not self reliant. Anything you can't count on 100% of the time is just a bonus but should never be used as a hunting strategy IMO. This is why my character doesn't train in dodge, a 15% chance of dodging something is, from the way I play the game, worthless. Scrolls run out and therefore can't be counted on. The only abilities that you can rely on are those that your character can cast himself and static abilities (DS, CvA etc). You can play in a way that leaves it up to chance or relies on outside help but people who play like that tend to die a lot more than people who focus on the fundamentals.

[Celephais]

Scroll infusion is not self reliant. Anything you can't count on 100% of the time is just a bonus but should never be used as a hunting strategy IMO. This is why my character doesn't train in dodge, a 15% chance of dodging something is, from the way I play the game, worthless. Scrolls run out and therefore can't be counted on. The only abilities that you can rely on are those that your character can cast himself and static abilities (DS, CvA etc). You can play in a way that leaves it up to chance or relies on outside help but people who play like that tend to die a lot more than people who focus on the fundamentals.

This is really dumb... You're in favor of instant kill manuevers then instead of any sort of attrition? Dumb...

My character (pure) likes static bonuses a lot, but I'm not going to turn down a chance bonus (520/540) because it's based on percent... better not be wearing armor with hiderance, it has a percent chance to fail... better not cast spells that can fumble, you can't count on those 100%.

Sheesh... and as Fallen said, he gets enough scrolls to the point where he can keep 503 up 100% of the time... it's like if you got an enhancive with a 1 pt recharge cost that upped your DS by 100... but it's not 100% reliable because you have to keep charging it...

[Drew]

An extra chance is nice but you can't devise a successful hunting strategy around it. If you build a hunting strategy around your static bonuses then any extra chances are just gravy. If Fallen gets dispelled he can't recast 507 without going empty handed, this is why it's not something that can be counted on IMO. I've hunted shan, pinefar, and stronghold self-spelled and rarely ever died (except for one stretch right after I fixskilled), the worst I ever did was two deaths in a level (level 56 illoke shaman got me twice), and I was on a 17 level stretch at one point without dieing from hunting. I know a lot of people arguing the opposite side can't claim anywhere near that kind of success while being absolutely spell tanked.

[Fallen]

An extra chance is nice but you can't devise a successful hunting strategy around it. If you build a hunting strategy around your static bonuses then any extra chances are just gravy. If Fallen gets dispelled he can't recast 507 without going empty handed, this is why it's not something that can be counted on IMO. I've hunted shan, pinefar, and stronghold self-spelled and rarely ever died (except for one stretch right after I fixskilled), the worst I ever did was two deaths in a level (level 56 illoke shaman got me twice), and I was on a 17 level stretch at one point without dieing from hunting. I know a lot of people arguing the opposite side can't claim anywhere near that kind of success while being absolutely spell tanked.


I can and do recast all of my Non Self-reliant! spells in the field. Minor Sanctuary scrolls rock, but I can't rely on those either!!! Every single hunt, I throw up 1601 601 202 303 503 507 and 508. These spells are all commonly found on scrolls. I have satchels full of them in my locker. I am never without them. There is a reason many consider 714 to be the most powerful spell in the game.

Scroll invoking scripts are your friend! I even use offensive scrolls in the heat of battle. COL scrolls are fun. As are Tangleweed, and Hurl Boulder. But honestly, folks, I am done trying to convince people. The less sorcerers there are around, the better off I am. All professions are equally if not more powerful and all that.

[Asha]

One reason I hate being a sorcerer is Ithzir / Empathic dispel

[Fallen]

Which is a big reason why not to hunt self spelled. If they grab Cloak of Shadows and Spirit Barrier while your in RT from a screech, you're fucked. Not quite as bad, though, if you are wearing 503, 905, and 507.

[Sean of the Thread]

This thread is funny.

[Asha]

Which is a big reason why not to hunt self spelled. If they grab Cloak of Shadows and Spirit Barrier while your in RT from a screech, you're fucked. Not quite as bad, though, if you are wearing 503, 905, and 507.

Why I spelled up with all the useless in battle spells.

[Asha]

And yeah this thread is funny.

[AestheticDeath]

Pft, empaths can sanct a whole room at will at any level.

Bards can sanct before empaths.. or clerics.

[AestheticDeath]

Scroll infusion is not self reliant. Anything you can't count on 100% of the time is just a bonus but should never be used as a hunting strategy IMO. This is why my character doesn't train in dodge, a 15% chance of dodging something is, from the way I play the game, worthless.

Your kiddin me right? You dont train in dodging because you dont like the small chance of evading something? Did you forget about the DS bonus it provides? Its a constant bonus..

Dodge is the best fucking skill you can train in beyond physical fitness.(kidding but really there is no reason not to train in it if you can afford it.)

[Drew]

Your kiddin me right? You dont train in dodging because you dont like the small chance of evading something? Did you forget about the DS bonus it provides? Its a constant bonus..

Dodge is the best fucking skill you can train in beyond physical fitness.(kidding but really there is no reason not to train in it if you can afford it.)


.6 offensive DS per training of dodge. 7/5 training cost for dodge. That's 8.6/6 ranks for 1 DS. Since I don't count on the evade % it's a waste of points at that cost when there are better skills to train in. After cap I certainly will pick it up.

[Drew]

The less sorcerers there are around, the better off I am. All professions are equally if not more powerful and all that.





Hah! A little too late for that, sorcerer is one of the most popular professions.

[Asha]

Delf sorc. Not too many of those. Not too many post 10m exp. pfft.
Plus threads like this will prob make noobs think 'shit I'm gonna be dark elf sorcerkiller'.

You'll fall to the rogue side one day Ev.

[Fallen]

Eh. Rogues are boring unless they engage in a lot of CvC. Most of their profession specific CMANS seem almost geared for it. Garrote? Groin Kick? ::shrugs::

[Asha]

Yeah. CvC. PvP.
Only reason we hunt critters is to make ourselves stronger for that.
I thought that was the point in Gemstone.

[Drew]

Love your avatar Ash.

[Asha]

Cheers mate
Yours scares me, then makes me hungry, then goes back to scaring me.

[StrayRogue]

Rank 2 arm wound to sorcerer = sorcerer out of action without herbs. BUT OMG the sorcerer hasn't got the particular herb he needs which equals one useless sorcerer.

[Fallen]

Which is why sorcerer worth his salt carries around every healing herb x50 without any added encumbrace.

[StrayRogue]

Which is adding a conditional to your summation. Which is stupid. Thats like me saying as a square I'm self-reliant because I carry around a 130 item and a ruby amulet for emergencies. You're not relying on your own power. Not in the least.

Self-reliant is being dropped naked into the field. A sorcerer isn't shit without crystals, scrolls, herbs and all the other pointless little fluff they need to survive.

[Fallen]

Ok.

[StrayRogue]

A typical response.

There is no way you can say that a sorcerer would do the best in a situation where they have no equipment or time to prepare (to ergo be totally self-reliant). In fact I'd say sorcerer's are the most reliant in this regard. They need all their little toys.

[Fallen]

Any other pure class besides Empaths would be put out of comission with a rank 2 arm wound, or a rank 2 head/nerve wound, unless they carried the herbs that the sorcerer was carrying. Except they would have all the extra encumbrance.

Any other class could have access to the same defensive spells as a sorcerer, except none of them have remotely the same degree of ease of gaining said outside Defensive/Offensive/Utility spells as the sorcerer. Even if they did, they would still have to carry them about. Are scrolls and magical trinkets light? Is encumbrance a major factor in combat? ::shrug::

Any other class can go to the Chronomage to travel across the realms, but they are going to pay out the nose for it, especially if they want to do it twice in 24 hours. Sorcerers can travel from nearly wheverever they want, to wherever they want for a fraction of the cost.

Most classes can hunt effectively. A sorcerer can kill nearly anything magical in one hit with 719, and most everything else in one hit of implosion. Can a cleric reliably do that? An empath? a Bard? A ranger? What is more effective versus your average opponent, spike thorn or implosion?

I could go on, but yeah, Stray, if you drop an empath entirely naked in a hunting ground, I guess they would do best afterall. I was more gearing my scenario off of the average player. I dont know too many people hunt naked.

Thing is, I dont want to go in circles with you, and I dont care if you think sorcerers are the worst profession in the game. It is pretty damn clear to me who is the clear cut winner, and that's all that matters.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, it's pretty clear you don't understand what "reliant" means.

I'm pretty sure I could still swing a weapon even with a rank 2 arm wound.

[Fallen]

I meant self reliant in that they can most efficiently gain the use of outside spells without MAing or asking for them, they can travel freely throughout the ream and to other realms without prohibitive costs, can hunt the fastest without the aid of others, and have the most useful utility spells which aid in gaining the most abilities without relying on other PCs, Auction/non-off the shelf items, or MAing.

You mean prep, cast, and that's it. Yes, in that sense, an empath wins.

Sorcerers have to use components for nearly everything, but they also have the means for those components to not at all hinder their movement/hunting. You think that is being reliant on components, which I will agree to. I meant being able to do the most things with their own, or by exploiting their own abilities.

[Necromancer]

Actually, a sorcerer could be missing both arms and still kill you.

[Fallen]

And a sorcerer could still swing a weapon with a broken arm. Does it matter? No. I dont think anything is going to change people's viewpoints on the matter. No need to nitpick.

[Sean of the Thread]

Sorcs have the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away, with mind bullets..

[Rathain]

A sorcerer can kill nearly anything magical in one hit with 719, and most everything else in one hit of implosion. Can a cleric reliably do that?

Actually, yes. The 317 plasma flare kills about 75% of the time. Rarely do the lightning flares get a chance to kick in anymore, at least for my cleric.

I do agree - sorcerers are quite self reliant (by that, I mean no need to MA). It's pricy in out of pocket silver to keep them operational, and I suppose that's the balance point.

All classes are about the same really, not in functionality but in efficacy. It's just that sorcerers have the most diverse arsenal capable of embarassing another PC, so their players exalt their potential. Just like with any other class in GS, it's about as hard to play a sorcerer effectively as flipping a coin. If it makes you feel better to insinst that sorcerers require a higher learning curve to play at a "higher level" than other classes, by all means.

[Asha]

It doesn't take a lurning curve to hunt a high trained sorcerer unless you've bought it. Even then how hard can it be to not stance dance, ever, just prep cast 720 or 719?
It's common knowledge that sorcerers are piss easy to hunt with.

What's the argument here? Sorcerers are the most self reliant profession in game? Well their obviously not lol.
Sorcerers have the best CvC or PvP ability, no again.
Glad you love being a sorcerer though. They are fun to play.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Sorcerors are OK. They are by no means the elite hunting force. They die to every maneuver under the sun. I've seen sorcerors killed by sneezes.

[Martaigne]

I think the issue you guys are having is the definition of "self-reliant". Fallen is saying one can be self-reliant by using one's own skills, and one's own gear, and items which are easy for one to obtain (small statues, crystals, scrolls, herbs). Strayrogue's definition obviously differs in that he believes self-reliant means one may only rely on the skills and spells they possess, without utilization of gear or items.

Both are valid definitions, but in reality, who hunts naked? Then again, Fallen's definition can be applied to ANY profession, and any profession can then be self-reliant by carrying a sack of herbs and a few trinkets from the pawnshop's arcana table.

One thing about GS has never changed, and that's the golden rule of combat -- The best defense is a strong offense. He who strikes true, first, wins. By this principle, my level 20 warrior is completely self-reliant, and my level 30 pure combat rogue is also self-reliant. But without their gear, they'd be dead meat... well, the rogue could hide.

All in all this argument is pretty moot, and pointless.

[Necromancer]

No learning curve, eh?

Alright. Tell me, where does one find moonflowers for animation? At forty necromancy ranks, which troll blood should one be harvesting? How do you bond to a 740 book and get an image of the third rune on your components page so you can ensure that it will take you to salt water? If I need to have a real-time conversation with a friend who is a short distance away and has no amulet on, which demon do I need, and which valence are they from? With my sixteen demonology ranks, what are my odds of success? If I'm in the Solhaven area, where is the nearest summoning chamber? How do I find it exactly? If I have a scroll with Minor Sanctuary, Boil Earth, and Life Restoration...how can I ensure that I only unlock the minor sanctuary spell? If I'm level 45 and 1x in each mana control and .3x in MIU, am I better off having someone else infuse it, or will I be sufficient? How many necromancy ranks would I need to animate an Ithzir Scout at level 91? What's the formula to use corrupt essence to determine the exact level of the scout in front of me? I can't seem to get my grantris from lorae'tyr to deliver my message to my dwarven friend hunting in Bonespear, why not? If I know the rune for the room I am in is twilight grey, and I need to go to the Shadow Valley...which chalk type should I use?

Yeah, tell me another profession that requires that kind of a learning curve to get the most out of it.

[Tolwynn]

Sorcerers are 2000% more proficient at stroking the e-peen and trying to convince everyone else they are teh most uber leet thing evar. You'd almost think it was a guild skill or something: Go forth and bloviate about your greatness, you must perform this task 6 times.

[Asha]

It doesn't take a lurning curve to hunt a high trained sorcerer unless you've bought it...
...It's common knowledge that sorcerers are piss easy to hunt with.


No learning curve, eh?

Alright. Tell me, where does one find moonflowers for animation? At forty necromancy ranks, which troll blood should one be harvesting? How do you bond to a 740 book and get an image of the third rune on your components page so you can ensure that it will take you to salt water? If I need to have a real-time conversation with a friend who is a short distance away and has no amulet on, which demon do I need, and which valence are they from? With my sixteen demonology ranks, what are my odds of success? If I'm in the Solhaven area, where is the nearest summoning chamber? How do I find it exactly? If I have a scroll with Minor Sanctuary, Boil Earth, and Life Restoration...how can I ensure that I only unlock the minor sanctuary spell? If I'm level 45 and 1x in each mana control and .3x in MIU, am I better off having someone else infuse it, or will I be sufficient? How many necromancy ranks would I need to animate an Ithzir Scout at level 91? What's the formula to use corrupt essence to determine the exact level of the scout in front of me? I can't seem to get my grantris from lorae'tyr to deliver my message to my dwarven friend hunting in Bonespear, why not? If I know the rune for the room I am in is twilight grey, and I need to go to the Shadow Valley...which chalk type should I use?

Yeah, tell me another profession that requires that kind of a learning curve to get the most out of it.

You could have saved yourself the long rant if you'd read my post properly, Jesse.
But I think you were looking for an excuse to BIG up your awesome knowledge in your ex-profession so you would have probably done it anyway.

[CrystalTears]

All I read in Necromancer's post was a lot of fapping.

[Akari]

Sorcerers are 2000% more proficient at stroking the e-peen and trying to convince everyone else they are teh most uber leet thing evar. You'd almost think it was a guild skill or something: Go forth and bloviate about your greatness, you must perform this task 6 times.

OK, I actually laughed outload on that one... nice observation! (not being sarcastic like usual, this was actually funny)

[Asha]

Except they fail at audience.

[Necromancer]

Actually Ash, this may come as a HUGE shock to you...

But I wasn't replying to your post. It's not all about you.

[Kainen]

To some people it's not always about who is more self-reliant. Like me. I just like playing my sorcerer. I have a titled rogue and empath and they are fun too, but I definately have more fun on my sorcerer.

[Sean of the Thread]

I liked my 50's empath a lot. Changed her to an archerpuff for a bit and that was great. Fun as hell. Not my favorite however.

I loved my rogues. They were fun as hell. Not my favorite.

My wizard was great for.. well.. enchanting. Boring. Wizards were my least favorite.

Sorc.. hands down my favorite and most played.

[FinisWolf]

My fav's are Wizard, rogue, and sorcerer in that order. They are all just fractions of percentages away from each other in the fun catagory in my opinion.

Maybe my opinion will change once I get my sorcerer past level 60ish.

Finis

[Asha]

rogue has proven most fun for me.
the sorceror was almost a rogue anyway so it was inevitable I would eventually nick stays idea.

[Rathain]

No learning curve, eh?

Alright. Tell me, where does one find moonflowers for animation? At forty necromancy ranks, which troll blood should one be harvesting? How do you bond to a 740 book and get an image of the third rune on your components page so you can ensure that it will take you to salt water? If I need to have a real-time conversation with a friend who is a short distance away and has no amulet on, which demon do I need, and which valence are they from? With my sixteen demonology ranks, what are my odds of success? If I'm in the Solhaven area, where is the nearest summoning chamber? How do I find it exactly? If I have a scroll with Minor Sanctuary, Boil Earth, and Life Restoration...how can I ensure that I only unlock the minor sanctuary spell? If I'm level 45 and 1x in each mana control and .3x in MIU, am I better off having someone else infuse it, or will I be sufficient? How many necromancy ranks would I need to animate an Ithzir Scout at level 91? What's the formula to use corrupt essence to determine the exact level of the scout in front of me? I can't seem to get my grantris from lorae'tyr to deliver my message to my dwarven friend hunting in Bonespear, why not? If I know the rune for the room I am in is twilight grey, and I need to go to the Shadow Valley...which chalk type should I use?

Yeah, tell me another profession that requires that kind of a learning curve to get the most out of it.


Alright then. At what gem value does the brimstone gem start effecting 2,3, and 4 other critters ? At what gem value threshold does a chrism gem eliminate or partially eliminate the death's sting effect on those who have died multiple times in succession ? At what rank in religion lore can a cleric begin to reliably determine the deity of the linked target ? At what ranks in blessing lore, do the backlash effects of Fervent Reproach cap ? At what ranks in blessing lore can a cleric attain +10 to their wisdom stat from a backlash effect, and how long will it last ? How many ranks in Arcane symbols are necessary to reliably use living spell to attain a elemental spellup, and still spell steal self control from a ranger ? How can a cleric attain a final casting strength of 585 ?

Profession specific questions like these exist for many professions. Knowing one class well in a game, only really makes that class more special to you. Learning curve exists for every profession. It's just not as high as you think.

[Sean]

Alright then. At what gem value does the brimstone gem start effecting 2,3, and 4 other critters ? At what gem value threshold does a chrism gem eliminate or partially eliminate the death's sting effect on those who have died multiple times in succession ? At what rank in religion lore can a cleric begin to reliably determine the deity of the linked target ? At what ranks in blessing lore, do the backlash effects of Fervent Reproach cap ? At what ranks in blessing lore can a cleric attain +10 to their wisdom stat from a backlash effect, and how long will it last ? How many ranks in Arcane symbols are necessary to reliably use living spell to attain a elemental spellup, and still spell steal self control from a ranger ? How can a cleric attain a final casting strength of 585 ?

Profession specific questions like these exist for many professions. Knowing one class well in a game, only really makes that class more special to you. Learning curve exists for every profession. It's just not as high as you think.

Let me know when you figure out the learning curve to get anything tangible from commune.

[Tolwynn]

Let me know when you figure out the learning curve to get anything tangible from commune.

No learning curve involved, just strap on the kneepads and you're good to go.

[Necromancer]

The key difference between the set of sorcery questions and the set of cleric questions is that as a sorcerer, if I don't know the answer to those questions, I can't use the spells/systems in question. As a cleric, if I don't know the answer to those questions, I can still use those spells. I don't have to know what gem value moves me to what brimstone modifier to make a brimstone gem. And I don't need to know how religion lore factors into well of life deity messaging to get that messaging. I do need to know which 714 rune does what in order to unlock a scroll. I do need to know where moonflowers are to animate a creature. And I most certainly need to know which demon type can deliver messages in 'real time'; which valence they come from; and what conditions are necessary to activate that message system if I want to use it.

There's a world of difference.

[Sean of the Thread]

Mind bullets people.. mind bullets.

[Alfster]

lol @ necromancer

[Asha]

STFU Alf it's fucking serious business.
Pfft.

[Drisco]

Guys... Like were all Balanced. Duh....

[Sean of the Thread]

Seriously.... 200 yards... yak.. dead yak... MIND BULLETS.

[Rathain]

The key difference between the set of sorcery questions and the set of cleric questions is that as a sorcerer, if I don't know the answer to those questions, I can't use the spells/systems in question. As a cleric, if I don't know the answer to those questions, I can still use those spells. I don't have to know what gem value moves me to what brimstone modifier to make a brimstone gem. And I don't need to know how religion lore factors into well of life deity messaging to get that messaging. I do need to know which 714 rune does what in order to unlock a scroll. I do need to know where moonflowers are to animate a creature. And I most certainly need to know which demon type can deliver messages in 'real time'; which valence they come from; and what conditions are necessary to activate that message system if I want to use it.

There's a world of difference.

I thought the topic was learning curves, eh ? I'll take that as you not knowing the answer to those cleric questions, and acknowledging it by bringing up questions you do know the answer to. Professions outside of sorcery have quirks and factors that can complicate the end goal effect, with systems as hard, or even harder to decipher than those in sorcery - in other words, a comparable learning curve. Not even answering your question can stop you from this fascination you have of fellating sorcery, so have at it.

Anyhow, Sean2 wins this thread - mind bullets for the win.

[Asha]

Not even answering your question can stop you from this fascination you have of fellating sorcery, so have at it.


ZING

[Kainen]

ZING


You mean YAWN. See I have it figured out.. if you LIKE being a sorcerer and say so then you are "fellating sorcery" but, if you don't then every chance you get you HAVE to call sorcery overpowered and you have to say that all dark elf sorcerers are the same .. oh and don't forget that anyone who plays a sorcerer bitches about everything. Hmm I think that about covers it.

[Sean of the Thread]

Mind bullets Kainen.. mind bullets. Nuff said.

[Fallen]

What was that line from that shitty band again? I missed it the first four times.

[Asha]

You mean YAWN. See I have it figured out.. if you LIKE being a sorcerer and say so then you are "fellating sorcery" but, if you don't then every chance you get you HAVE to call sorcery overpowered and you have to say that all dark elf sorcerers are the same .. oh and don't forget that anyone who plays a sorcerer bitches about everything. Hmm I think that about covers it.
I think I've managed to avoid every one of those categories.
But still, the ''fellating sorcery'' tag is timeless. Innit.
Edited to add : I can't believe all this came from one persons opinion on how much they love their profession lol

[Rathain]

You mean YAWN. See I have it figured out.. if you LIKE being a sorcerer and say so then you are "fellating sorcery" but, if you don't then every chance you get you HAVE to call sorcery overpowered and you have to say that all dark elf sorcerers are the same .. oh and don't forget that anyone who plays a sorcerer bitches about everything. Hmm I think that about covers it.

Actually, the distinction in this thread is those that say "Sorcerers are teh supr special uber deluxe profession" (see the quote below)


anyone that does not think sorcerers are superior in almost every way... has either not played one... (I have a char of every profession, and ALL are atleast to title)
OR, they didn't know what the hell they were doing when they did play one

vs.

those that say, "eh, whatever.".

So in case you purposely skipped over about 20 posts, you would notice that no one said sorcerers are overpowered. The only people suggesting that they are overpowered, ironically, are those that are saying "it's so hard to use one to it's fullest, and requires a higher learning curve than any other profession." All anyone else has said is eh. I'm not as impressed. See the distinction between fellating sorcery, and those that don't care ? It's not anything in the deluged categories you offered up. If anything, most have fallen outside of it.

[Fallen]

Clerics suck. That is all.

[Rathain]

Clerics suck. That is all.

heh. well, there ya go.

[Fallen]

Honestly. They can hunt and all that, but there isn't anything about them that makes them appealing. Spirit Slayer is hot. I will give you that. 340 and 350 need to be amazing spells. Maybe they can call down an avatar of a deity to fight along side them for a short while.

Rathain just arrived with Kai following behind him.

[Asha]

Yeah great idea. Get all the arkati to come down with all the lornon with a room full of their respected clerics all mowing down the Temple.
Then they can all glance at eachother and realise what's going off and they can turn on eachother and Elanthia with explode.

I like that idea and yeah clerics do fucking suck.

[Fallen]

Hah. That would be funny if two cleric's avatars that didn't like each other starting going at it.

[Rathain]

Yeah, I can't say I disagree with you. If you want, post your sentiment in the cleric's folders - it's usually just the same people talking about the same old stuff. Some players have been complaining about it for a while, but maybe some new voices may help sway Estild's opinion.

[Necromancer]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had to spell out every single step of the argument Hakw- erm Rathain.

Yes, it's about learning curve. And the learning curve is far steeper when you *must* know 100 pieces of information for basic functionality than it is when you can get basic functionality without knowing those 100 pieces. Are we going to pull out Webster's now?

And, as far as your erroneous concern with whether or not I know the answer to your clerical questions...amusingly enough half of those questions can't be answered (or haven't been answered) by players. (Before you go looking up the krakiipedia articles- the brimstone page is incorrect and has been from day one- bet you didn't know that!)

And, hey, crazy, if you don't want to hear people espouse their love for sorcery, maybe you should avoid threads titled ONE REASON I LOVE BEING A SORCERER.

Jesus, you sure you don't post on the sorcery officials?

[Fallen]

Yeah, I can't say I disagree with you. If you want, post your sentiment in the cleric's folders - it's usually just the same people talking about the same old stuff. Some players have been complaining about it for a while, but maybe some new voices may help sway Estild's opinion.

I have the folder open and read the posts, but it is pretty dead most of the time.

[Rathain]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had to spell out every single step of the argument Hakw- erm Rathain.

Yes, it's about learning curve. And the learning curve is far steeper when you *must* know 100 pieces of information for basic functionality than it is when you can get basic functionality without knowing those 100 pieces. Are we going to pull out Webster's now?

And, as far as your erroneous concern with whether or not I know the answer to your clerical questions...amusingly enough half of those questions can't be answered (or haven't been answered) by players. (Before you go looking up the krakiipedia articles- the brimstone page is incorrect and has been from day one- bet you didn't know that!)

And, hey, crazy, if you don't want to hear people espouse their love for sorcery, maybe you should avoid threads titled ONE REASON I LOVE BEING A SORCERER.

Jesus, you sure you don't post on the sorcery officials?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure i don't post on the official boards much. Haven't posted in the sorcery folder at all, if that alleviates your concern.

Sorry you had to spell out your argument, and still miss the point. You do realize it doesn't take 100 pieces of effective information to use any profession in an effective manner, right ? It might rout your nerves to realize other sorcerers don't know as much as the specifics as you, and just don't care, as it doesn't effect their gameplay. You espouse your own affinity with "effectiveness" with the need to exault a hoarde of game knowledge - why ?
To make all the time you've spent in the game seem more worthwhile ?

You do have a point though. There aren't as many older clerics around that haven't sold out at some point recently, so yeah, not many are in a position to test and answer those questions. But to think that Krakipedia is the basis of known knowledge by cleric players is a poor assumption. For instance, clerics that have been around know where the best orb gem hunting spots are. And yes, a few exist in Elanthia, that yield orb gem quality an obscene percentage of the time.

"Is it on Krakipedia ?""
"No ??!! Then of course it can't be answered and does not exist !"

As far as the answer to those questions I asked, yeah, they do have answers. Specfically, of those seven questions I asked, all are known but two - perhaps just not by you.


And, hey, crazy, if you don't want to hear people espouse their love for sorcery, maybe you should avoid threads titled ONE REASON I LOVE BEING A SORCERER.

see below.


anyone that does not think sorcerers are superior in almost every way... has either not played one... (I have a char of every profession, and ALL are atleast to title)
OR, they didn't know what the hell they were doing when they did play one

Again, fellating sorcery /= espousing's one love for sorcery.

[Asha]

This thread is the absolute definition of what's fucking stupid about the arguing of the best professions in a text adventure game.

[Rathain]

This thread is the absolute definition of what's fucking stupid about the arguing of the best professions in a text adventure game.

... yeah, I'm done with it. Can't say any more without being repetitive.

[TheEschaton]

Clerics are awesome, and I love them. It took me five years to correct the fact that I put my lowest roll in my slowest growing stat, but after that, it's been peachy keen.

But I've had a couple of successful communes, so I'm of the "330 doesn't totally suck" category.

-TheE-

[Fallen]

But I've had a couple of successful communes, so I'm of the "330 doesn't totally suck" category.

-TheE- >>

I have it on a scroll. I am very, very happy about that. I dont care what other people say. That spell is awesome.

[Asha]

Say it with me, Jenova. CRIT PADDING.

Say it WITH ME EVARIN!
FUCKING [QUOTE]

[TheEschaton]

I got an altered tattoo out of one (a burn mark seared into my neck), and my chalice in one ceremony inlaid with a blue sapphire trident. Well worth it for the 4 or 5 times I've ever cast it. ONce Tijay and I communed to the god of the kobolds, and that one was answered by Arachne.

She was a bitch, and tried to kill us with major spiders, which we laughed and easily dispatched.


-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

I've got my hater blockers on.

[thefarmer]

Wow. This thread was funny.

[thefarmer]

And I've always been of the opinion that whoever has the best toys(armor/weapon/green eye of death, etc) wins both in PvP/CvC/Hunting.. Regardless of profession or training.

I would consider that self-cast/self-reliant, if you're willing to consider scrolls and such the same.

[Fallen]

So a scroll is the aquivalent of say...35 pound 10x HCP Full plate? Good to know.

[thefarmer]

How can you be self-reliant if you need outside items (ie herbs) to keep yourself alive?>>

Are we defining self-reliant as not selling things to stores to gain silver? I mean, you are relying on the NPC store clerk for the exhange.

With scroll infusion, I do not need a wizard to get a wizard spellup, and I can use nearly every spell level 1-19 that any class can use. If I have 3 instances of 503, 507, 905, and 508 on scrolls, that means I have ATLEAST 60 uses of those spells. With any luck, and odds willing, I will get closer to 80. You can split hairs if you wish. I have hunted with 503 every hunt of OTF. Why? The spell is all but mine. I do not MA for it as most warriors/rogues do. I obtain them from the treasure system, or from the pawnshop. Again, if you want to call buying stuff from NPCs as not self-reliant, then yeah. Heh, I guess you win. Empaths hands down.

Well, the properties of the gear used is owned/always usable by the character. And, usually the really uber gear is obtained from a merchant/auction.

Is a 2lb scroll comparable to 35lbs 10x HCP full plate? Of course not. One is clearly more powerful than the other. Though, I will point out, that not all scrolls are equal either. A scroll with prescence (402) isn't worth as much as say a scroll with Prayer (313).

I wasn't looking to start anything in particular. I just wanted to point out that if you're counting toys and trinkets (scrolls, herbs) as being self-reliant, (which I happen to agree with you mostly) I think gear should count toward that equation.

[Fallen]

I would agree, if every profession in the game had the spells 704 and 714.

[Sean of the Thread]

Do I even need to say it?

[RichardCranium]

Mind Bullets?

[thefarmer]

I would agree, if every profession in the game had the spells 704 and 714.

I'm curious.

I've seen 704 scrolls, I think. Or at least I thought I have. So I would think that this gives any profession access.

As far as 714, being able to infuse scrolls is a great skill, I'll agree. Is it really that important though? I pick up scrolls from playershops and the various pawns all the time. I use them them every hunt and haven't felt the need to get them infused. Yet I rarely run out of the main spells I use.

[Fallen]

704 on a scroll is next to useless. However, like others have said in a fairly valid attempt to derail the thread, there is really no point in arguing.

That and Mind Bullets. Now everyone laugh, I quoted a whitesploytation band.

[thefarmer]

It was curiousity, more than wanting to start an arguement. I just wanted to know if I was missing something about 714 is all.

[Fallen]

As far as 714, being able to infuse scrolls is a great skill, I'll agree. Is it really that important though? I pick up scrolls from playershops and the various pawns all the time. I use them them every hunt and haven't felt the need to get them infused. Yet I rarely run out of the main spells I use. >>

To me, it is the diference between saving those scrolls for invasions, or infusing them, and using them on every hunt. You basically have MUCH more access to those spells, as opposed to situational access where most of the time you go without.

[Sean of the Thread]

714 is prolly one of the top 3 spells in game.

[Akari]

OMG... first of all, I would like to apoligize to everyone for my post... I never realized I would start a complete post fight (like a bar fight, but in posts). And now that I have apoligized and I no longer feel guilty for all of this... Isn't Chuck Norris a sorcerer?

[Sean of the Thread]

All the haters come out of the woodwork when sorc discussions come up. Jealousy is a bitch.

[RichardCranium]

The Sorcerers Guilds were devised to keep Chuck Norris out. They failed miserably.

[Kainen]

OMG... first of all, I would like to apoligize to everyone for my post... I never realized I would start a complete post fight (like a bar fight, but in posts). And now that I have apoligized and I no longer feel guilty for all of this... Isn't Chuck Norris a sorcerer?

Sorry.. a sorc could WTFPWN chuck norris in a heart beat, thank you very much.

[TheEschaton]

blasphemy!

Chuck Norris is so tough, if he looks at you, he tears the Veil.

[Alfster]

Chuck Norris jokes were never funny

[TheEschaton]

Neither were you.

[GuildRat]

[Roll result: 584 (open d100: 74)]
Chuck Norris swings his rigid hand at UberSorc's throat!
UberSorc chokes silently clutching his throat!

[Roll result: 582 (open d100: 87)]
Chuck Norris crouches, sweeps a leg at UberSorc and connects!
UberSorc falls to the ground! Chuck Norris deftly regains his footing.
>

Chuck Norris swings a closed fist at UberSorc!
AS: +1179 vs DS: +545 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +65 = +613
... and hit for 98 points of damage!
Tremendous blow crushes skull like a ripe melon.
Ubersorc falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
<mucho spells dropping>


Chuck Norris glances at UberSorc and folds his arms over his chest.

Chuck Norris smirks.

[thefarmer]

Now THAT was funny!

[Alfster]

Neither were you.

Oh come on now, I'm at least funny looking.