If Iraq Says Leave, "We Would Leave."

[Hulkein]

President Bush said today if the Iraqi government were to ask the United States to leave Iraq, he would grant the request.

"We are there at the invitation of the Iraqi government. This is a sovereign nation. Twelve million people went to the polls to approve a constitution. It's their government's choice,’’ the president said during a Rose Garden news conference. "If they were to say leave, we would leave."

Last week, The Politico reported that some Republican leaders in Congress held the same view.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/24/politics/politico/thecrypt/main2848888.shtml

Thoughts? Think we really would? Any chance they ask us to leave while Bush is still in office?

[Back]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/24/politics/politico/thecrypt/main2848888.shtml

Thoughts? Think we really would? Any chance they ask us to leave while Bush is still in office?

I doubt this administration would even if the Iraqi people and the government asked us to leave.

[Gan]

I doubt this administration would even if the Iraqi people and the government asked us to leave.

You're hatred for this administration really has blinded you hasnt it?

[Hulkein]

If their government asked us to leave then I'd have to say we need to leave, especially after this statement was made.

Seems like it would be a good way to leave. It'd be nice if they did ask, we left, and their government was able to remain somewhat stable. That's probably not going to happen, but it'd be nice.

[Back]

If their government asked us to leave then I'd have to say we need to leave, especially after this statement was made.

Seems like it would be a good way to leave. It'd be nice if they did ask, we left, and their government was able to remain somewhat stable. That's probably not going to happen, but it'd be nice.

It sure would be. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen polls showing the majority of civilians want us gone and I’m also pretty sure I’ve read that the majority of the government wants us gone as well. I’ll see what I can dig up later.

The reason why I am skeptical that this administration, the GOP candidates and most of the Republican party would actually leave is because the language that they use when talking about the government there is about “we want” and “I would have them do such and such”. Plus, how many people have said we should leave already and they just have not listened.

Whats even more worrying than that is the war drumming for Iran. I would not put it past the administration and the GOP to actually start something there and that is fucking stupid crazy.

[Parkbandit]

It sure would be. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen polls showing the majority of civilians want us gone and I’m also pretty sure I’ve read that the majority of the government wants us gone as well. I’ll see what I can dig up later.

The reason why I am skeptical that this administration, the GOP candidates and most of the Republican party would actually leave is because the language that they use when talking about the government there is about “we want” and “I would have them do such and such”. Plus, how many people have said we should leave already and they just have not listened.

Whats even more worrying than that is the war drumming for Iran. I would not put it past the administration and the GOP to actually start something there and that is fucking stupid crazy.


Yea.. we should just let them manufacture nuclear weapons. It's only fair.. we have them, why can't they!

Welcome to Stupidville.

[Back]

From PIPA, September 2006.

71 Percent Of Iraqis Want U.S. Forces To Withdraw Within A Year (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/27/iraqis-poll/)

[Back]

Yea.. we should just let them manufacture nuclear weapons. It's only fair.. we have them, why can't they!

Welcome to Stupidville.

One man owns a gun. Another man actively seeks a gun. The man with the gun shoots the man without one just because he was looking to get one.

Smartville? Nah, homicide murder land.

[Parkbandit]

One man owns a gun. Another man actively seeks a gun. The man with the gun shoots the man without one just because he was looking to get one.

Smartville? Nah, homicide murder land.

So.. you believe that it is any country's right to manufacture any weapon or weapon system they want to?

[Back]

So.. you believe that it is any country's right to manufacture any weapon or weapon system they want to?

Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. If China develops a disintegration ray satellite should they use it against us if we try to get one also?

[Parkbandit]

Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. If China develops a disintegration ray satellite should they use it against us if we try to get one also?

And thus the reason you and your ilk shouldn't dabble in things you clearly cannot grasp. Great foreign policy there chump. "WMD? Feel free, just promise you won't use them, ok? Let's hug on it!!"

[Parkbandit]

Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. If China develops a disintegration ray satellite should they use it against us if we try to get one also?


Here's a new avatar for you that is MUCH more accurate that the one you currently use:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/Top_Pun_US_Government_Approved_Paci.gif

[Back]

This isn’t the movies, Rambo. Its real life. You are advocating attacking a nation who does not have WMDs. Innocent people, men, women and children die in those explosions you see on TV, they aren’t stunt doubles and special effects.

[Daniel]

Well, then maybe they shouldn't support their country building weapons capable of killing millions of people.

[Back]

Well, then maybe they shouldn't support their country building weapons capable of killing millions of people.

Oh thats rational. You just condemned innocent Americans to death. Not to mention children.

[Daniel]

America isn't Iran.

America has nuclear weapons and has had them for some time. It can't simply just give them up. On the same side, that doesn't mean that other people should be allowed to pick them up.

If Japan had decided to attack the US before it used a Nuke, (I hope you get the contextual clues i'm giving) then maybe it would have been justified.

[Divinity]

Didn't the Iraqi government already ask the US to leave already? 0_o?

I thought they did. Yes, I'm somewhat misinformed about this whole topic. I blame Fox media.

[Back]

Didn't the Iraqi government already ask the US to leave already? 0_o?

I thought they did. Yes, I'm somewhat misinformed about this whole topic. I blame Fox media.

Makes you wonder what our media is up to. Real information or the shareholder’s bottom line?

PS. Don’t let that “liberal-media” bullshit spin you. Media has been complacent, directed, and are the lap dogs of the major corporations whose profits put tons of money into politicians pockets.

[Tsa`ah]

If their government asked us to leave then I'd have to say we need to leave, especially after this statement was made.

Seems like it would be a good way to leave. It'd be nice if they did ask, we left, and their government was able to remain somewhat stable. That's probably not going to happen, but it'd be nice.

The thing is ... well, it's a pretty safe statement to make. It's an almost pointless statement outside of raising approval ratings.

The administration won't listen to the general Iraqi populace, rather the government. The government isn't going to ask, nor are they going to push for a US withdraw simply because the moment that last US military boot leaves Iraqi soil ... the government is going down and it would be bloody.

No, Iraq isn't going to ask us to leave in the near future. The moment their internal forces are capable of defending an outright revolt, quelling a potential all out civil war, or an unwanted foreign invasion ... they'll start making noise.

As it stands right now, I doubt many Iraqi citizens are thrilled about government death squads.

[Apathy]

We'd leave....right through Iran.

[Parkbandit]

This isn’t the movies, Rambo. Its real life. You are advocating attacking a nation who does not have WMDs. Innocent people, men, women and children die in those explosions you see on TV, they aren’t stunt doubles and special effects.


This isn't a Fairy Tale, Bambi. It's real life. You are advocating allowing a nation who is run by extremists to have weapons of mass destruction. Innocent people, men, woman and children die in those explosions you see on TV, they aren't stunt doubles and special effects.

[Gan]

We'd leave....right through Iran.

Can I apply to be on the glass highway comittee?

[Danical]

Glass highway . . . ha!

My friend who's a nuclear propulsion officer on a boomer jokes about that.

[Warriorbird]

Right...because nuking the Middle East is totally the answer.

:rolls eyes:

The government that we installed (and is dealing with a rebellion/serious issues with 30% of the population) isn't likely to tell us to go...so this is pretty much just dead air from the Republicans.

[Gan]

Right...because nuking the Middle East is totally the answer.
But think of how many American lives it would save. Think of how inexpensive it would be. Think of how effective it would be if we took out everything that might even be considered to be a terrorist. It worked on Japan didnt it?


The government that we installed (and is dealing with a rebellion/serious issues with 30% of the population) isn't likely to tell us to go...so this is pretty much just dead air from the Republicans.
And yet it still needed to be said. Its funny how folks trot out polling numbers saying that the Iraqi people dont want the US over there (to which I seriuosly question the validity of the polls) and yet at the same time accuse Bush of blowing empty air when he says we'll leave if they tell us to. :wtf:

[Apathy]

80% of all forum statistics are made up on the spot.

[Sean of the Thread]

80% of all forum statistics are made up on the spot.

I'd say closer to 74%

[Krendeli]

Either way, we're all 100% fucked.

[Gan]

Either way, we're all 100% fucked.

Elaborate. Because all I see is 'gloom and doom' when I read your posts of late (see ethanol thread as well).

I'll have to wait and check for an answer when I get back later on this weekend. Please try not to fall into any deeper of depression, I would hate to think that anything bad were to happen as a result of participating in gloominess and doominess on these threads... :lol:

[Tolwynn]

Whats even more worrying than that is the war drumming for Iran. I would not put it past the administration and the GOP to actually start something there and that is fucking stupid crazy.

As much as you hate Bush and the GOP, how many times have they come out and said, yes, we're going to start a war with Iran just because? How many times have they said we're going to launch tens of thousands of missiles a day? How many times has Bush announced death to Iraqis or Iranians to cheering throngs? How many times has he said everyone in the Middle East should be destroyed, or that all Muslims and their states should be made to disappear?

Here's the thing, the US has the arsenal to wipe out Iran and the Middle East hundreds of times over, but... somehow we haven't. Our government, much as you hate it, doesn't go saying crazy shit like the Iranian government does, either.

So you've got the Iraninan government saying all these things, but currently lacking the means to do so. Do you really think they should be given the means to those ends?

If you honestly believe that... heh, the space shuttle couldn't get as high as you.

[Krendeli]

Elaborate. Because all I see is 'gloom and doom' when I read your posts of late (see ethanol thread as well).

I'll have to wait and check for an answer when I get back later on this weekend. Please try not to fall into any deeper of depression, I would hate to think that anything bad were to happen as a result of participating in gloominess and doominess on these threads... :lol:

That was done tongue-in-cheek with Apathy's post on statistics. I'm in a rather jolly mood this weekend.

Hurray for 3 day weekends!

[ElanthianSiren]

Tolwynn, apparently you never got the memo: the PC is strictly a no logic zone. Violations will be rigidly enforced with a cattle prod.

[Dropped_In]

The Iranians, Iraqis, etc. are acting the exact same way as people have for thousands of years. A generation of young Iraqis have almost grown up around US occupation and involvement in their country, and foreign occupation that can't be fought by normal means breeds a sense of nationalistic claustrophobia that leads to extreme and logically unsound courses of action.

Al Qaeda and other extremist groups won't stop their attacks either way, but following a US withdrawal, they would very quickly lose local popular support. Iran is a bit more slippery, but short of a full scale occupation, there really isn't any way to keep them from producing nuclear-based energy/weapons, and at the moment it would certainly seem like a good deterrant to US invasion from their perspective if they had nuclear power in their possession.

Granted homeboy in Iran is a little bit nuts, but no government can operate without the support of a *large* portion of the population, whether implicit or explicit. Really it just underlines growing resentment against the US worldwide, and preventing Iran from obtaining weapons of any kind will in no way make us any safer.

[Back]

As much as you hate Bush and the GOP, how many times have they come out and said, yes, we're going to start a war with Iran just because? How many times have they said we're going to launch tens of thousands of missiles a day? How many times has Bush announced death to Iraqis or Iranians to cheering throngs? How many times has he said everyone in the Middle East should be destroyed, or that all Muslims and their states should be made to disappear?

Here's the thing, the US has the arsenal to wipe out Iran and the Middle East hundreds of times over, but... somehow we haven't. Our government, much as you hate it, doesn't go saying crazy shit like the Iranian government does, either.

So you've got the Iraninan government saying all these things, but currently lacking the means to do so. Do you really think they should be given the means to those ends?

If you honestly believe that... heh, the space shuttle couldn't get as high as you.

Simply put, I don’t think preemptive war with Iran is the answer. There is no way we could sustain it right now and there sure as hell is not enough support here at home and in the global community. Its an incredibly myopic view to suggest that we could and even moreso to even think we should.

If a country is not allowed to make weapons thats for the global community to decide not just us.

[Sean of the Thread]

Forget a preemptive war. Preemptive STRIKE is the key word.

Much like our diplomacy efforts now are preemptive. The espionage is preemptive.. that failing STRIKE.

The only thing we'll have to lose is a few JDAM's or tomahawks.

[Warriorbird]

But think of how many American lives it would save. Think of how inexpensive it would be. Think of how effective it would be if we took out everything that might even be considered to be a terrorist. It worked on Japan didnt it?

Sadly the Middle East is not an island. We have allies over there. Smaller strikes would merely galvanize hatred of America forever. "A strike to kill all terrorism." is impossible.

[sst]

Simply put, I don’t think preemptive war with Iran is the answer. There is no way we could sustain it right now and there sure as hell is not enough support here at home and in the global community. Its an incredibly myopic view to suggest that we could and even moreso to even think we should.

If a country is not allowed to make weapons thats for the global community to decide not just us.

It worked for Isreal a few decades back.

Bunch oh bombs and we are good to go no more nuke factories.

[Artha]

If a country is not allowed to make weapons thats for the global community to decide not just us.
I thought this was one issue the global community pretty much agreed on? Didn't the UN pass resolutions to stop Iran from enriching uranium?