1115 - Wither

[Makkah]

The spell name has been disclosed as of today, although the exact proposal has not been posted.


TOONADICT2
Anyone know what 1115 is gona be?


Wither (1115).


TOONADICT2
Apparently its the new black... but does anyone know what its going to/supposed to do?


It is and it will cause your opponents to wither.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=26&topic=15&message=2841

[Gan]

to wither?

This is going to go over like a fart in church.

[Artha]

Empaths need more healing spells.

[Makkah]

"Wither" just seems more necro-sorcerer to me, but I guess empaths need a bit more cool shit. I dunno.

[Fallen]

Empathic assault good, Boneshatter, eh. Wither sounds straight out of a sorcerer's spell list. Can't judge a book by its cover, though. Lets see what they do with it.

[Marl]

You ask for healing and next thing you know your arm shrivels up. Sounds good.

[Gan]

Empathic assault good, Boneshatter, eh. Wither sounds straight out of a sorcerer's spell list. Can't judge a book by its cover, though. Lets see what they do with it.

:wtf:

Boneshatter is the bomb for fighting empaths. Its pure CS Chica style 'shattah yo face' action. It sums up all the aggressive nature opposite of their empathic ability to take/mend wounds. It gives them back, x10.

EA is a good spell too, and I use it frequently. But not as frequent as BS and Fire Spirit (fire bolt flares FTW - especially against noncorporeal undead).

[Jolena]

I always looked at boneshatter as the accumulated pain that an empath takes from wounds and focuses it into energy for the spell itself. Kinda like storing up negative energy from the wounds and lashing out with it against a creature. Probably not accurate, but its how I perceived it anyhow.

[Fallen]

I think it would be cool if they had a spell that damaged you by forcing too much blood back in your body. Overhealing you. Also, you could cause limbs and such to grow randomly out of someone's body.

[Gan]

They need one called exanguination (still similar to blood burst but you're not slicing the carteroid artery, you're removing the body's ability to clot and then pumping too much blood back into it). Graphic displays of blood spurting out of random orafices... etc.

[Fallen]

They need one called exanguination (still similar to blood burst but you're not slicing the carteroid artery, you're removing the body's ability to clot and then pumping too much blood back into it). Graphic displays of blood spurting out of random orafices... etc.

That could work as well. Anything that is more the opposite of healing, rather than random offensive spells.

[Gan]

/agreed

[Drew]

I imagine it's something like blood burst, just my guess. The anti-healing ideas are pretty cool.

[Stanley Burrell]

Anti-healing ideas are morning stars and lightning bolts, yo.

It was nice when GS was GS and SIMU was one of the few MMORPGs that had some sort of idea of what a healer actually was :-\

I tip my fitted Yankee to anyone who stayed a warrior :thumbup:

[Fallen]

I ALSO agree with that.

I believe that the empathic profession could be split. Pure healers with great utility spells and hunters who can heal to a small/moderate extent.

[Gan]

I ALSO agree with that.

I believe that the empathic profession could be split. Pure healers with great utility spells and hunters who can heal to a small/moderate extent.


blasphemy!

[Stanley Burrell]

I ALSO agree with that.

I believe that the empathic profession could be split. Pure healers with great utility spells and hunters who can heal to a small/moderate extent.

I always thought it was kinda weird that with all the new spell circle hype, boneshatter; and its main problem, DF, was reliant on first aid inherent to any empath's training. Even worse, the ability to rift hunt after crafting idle healscripts in non-map savvy populouses that took you from 40-90ish.

Whatever happened to Stealth anyway? ... Er, who checked out these forums three days ago?

[Drew]

I ALSO agree with that.

I believe that the empathic profession could be split. Pure healers with great utility spells and hunters who can heal to a small/moderate extent.


I've been for this for a while, the "paladin" of the healing profession. This can only work if HJ takes off and we get a bunch of new code ninjas in GS though. We've already got two crappy professions slated (although monks could fit this mode, for those of you who played Final Fantasy Tactics think 'chakra').

Healers have incredibly easy experience gain, especially now that they can hunt as easily as other classes. There's a reason capped healers outnumber all other capped classes.

[Makkah]

(carotid)

[Necromancer]

GS has the most brilliantly designed healing profession I have ever encountered in an MMORPG. I simply can't tolerate healing professions in other games, who do nothing but sit there casting heals and buffs and who are largely helpless otherwise. Also, the entire healing system fosters community and interaction, and THAT was astoundingly brilliant.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, but you all forget healing is fucking boring.

While hunting isn't exactly exciting anymore, the sum total of me healing someone boils down to two commands ;heal noob, ;scarz.

It's drivel, and I'm glad the days of no hunting spells save 115 and twisted wands are long gone.

GS healing will never beat WoW healing.

[Celephais]

I'm going to have to agree with Stray, while GS has a very clever healing scheme, it has not excitement, because there is no combat healing, no attrition (I never played a healer in WoW, but in EQ...), EQ had you timing complete heals and managing agro, dealing with disease and poison. *IF* I manage to get hurt in GS, healing for me is just hunting down a healer, asking for healing, throwing a few alms, and then forgetting I ever met them. Hell sometimes it's just going to the herb shop.

Now if they combined the two that'd be pretty cool (attrition and combat healing, as well as actual bodily injury)

[Latrinsorm]

If you choose to turn healing into dissociative scripting, then yes, as with most things, you're not going to get much out of it. You can also choose to join in the healing community, whether as a healer or a patient, and I think that's all a game ought to offer.

[Asha]

So glad I no longer care how Empaths are slowly becoming more CSpwne-tastic than Sorcerers.

[StrayRogue]

Healing community? Wtf are you talking about?

People want healing. They don't want a conversation while I casually remove their wounds over a period of five minutes. They want it done fast and efficiently.

[Celephais]

Healing community? Wtf are you talking about?

People want healing. They don't want a conversation while I casually remove their wounds over a period of five minutes. They want it done fast and efficiently.

I'm curious to if you think WoW healing (say raid healing, or some other situation where you're expected not to contribute to DPS, and it's infact discouraged due to agro) would be as exciting if someone wrote a plugin that timed it all out for you and managed your group/mana/agro appropiately. When I played a warrior and I set up a good warriorButton the game was literally "run around, find something, mash a single key".

You can easily take the fun out of any game if you try hard enough.

[Gan]

I'm my own damn healing community. ;)

[StrayRogue]

I doubt you'd find a plugin that would allow you to one-key play a high level and difficult dungeon for WoW. Too many variables, especially if you're in a raw, untried group. Perhaps in a small 5 man raid it would be possible. But in a larger one, with multiple healers where you have to content with the occasional D/C, poor pulls, others running out of mana, some noob forgetting he has the bomb and blowing up half the raid, some other noob being lax on healing on healing the MT etc etc etc, it would be too risky to just "script". As someone said "no plan ever survived contact with the enemy".

Healbot is perhaps similiar to what you're suggesting, and that doesn't make healing boring for me, it just makes it much more more user friendly and more efficient.

[Celephais]

I'm just prosing an extreme. All of those things have potential to be scripted (although to my knowledge not within WoW's supported language, and since The Warden buttrapes anyone's attempt to make their own I don't see it happening), but you're kind of saying "Because people are idiots, WoW is fun".

[Drew2]

Totally irrelevent, but I'd appreciate it if people stopped crediting Chica for the "shatter your face" quote.

That came from me, even she will tell you.

Thank you, have a pleasant day.

[Celephais]

Totally irrelevent, but I'd appreciate it if people stopped crediting Chica for the "shatter your face" quote.

That came from me, even she will tell you.

Thank you, have a pleasant day.

Yeah... but she gave the quote balls.

[Gan]

Totally irrelevent, but I'd appreciate it if people stopped crediting Chica for the "shatter your face" quote.

That came from me, even she will tell you.

Thank you, have a pleasant day.


Yeah... but she gave the quote balls.

:lolwave:

pwnnnd

[Miss X]

Hahahahaha.

<3 Drew.

[Drew]

No one is making you play a healer Stay, if you don't enjoy it, play another class. But there are plenty of people who do and it's really easy as evidenced by the number of capped idiot healers running around the game. Empaths shouldn't have their cake and eat it too.

[StrayRogue]

Exactly. I only heal when I'm not hunting. Which is the point. Relegating someone to a boring two-command existence isn't exactly fun. Hence why Warden has made the profession capable of hunting.

[Drew]

Exactly. I only heal when I'm not hunting. Which is the point. Relegating someone to a boring two-command existence isn't exactly fun. Hence why Warden has made the profession capable of hunting.


Which is why it's unfair, empaths can keep their heads topped off way longer than someone who has to hunt only. If you think healing is boring, don't be an empath. There are tons of players who love sitting around TC (I'm one of them to be honest, I find hunting boring, I play the game for the roleplaying), healers should be healers first and hunters a distant second.

[Necromancer]

No one in GS past level 25 has problems keeping their head full. So it's not much of a benefit. Also, as people pointed out, healing can get REALLY boring. And empaths as a profession are still relegated to only healing for the first part of their life unless they're making use of weapons.

They are trying to make the healing system more robust and to track empaths a bit more into healing versus combat specialization. That'll be a welcome change I think. But in the meantime, empaths went from being a very poorly designed profession (despite a really well designed healing system, all things considered) to being a really interesting profession.

The one complaint I have about empaths is that they've turned into old-style clerics in the sense that they can be viable swingers for a looooong time due to their AS boosts and group disablers. They need to be pushed back into the same restrictions other pures face. I think that'll come with they're moved to the mental list honestly.

[Drisco]

Any Ideas on what the spell will do? Or when it will come out?

[Drew]

I don't understand what you mean, no one has a problem keeping their head full? I have to cast a litany of spells, walk a long distance, fight creatures that are very likely to one-shot kill my character. This is a pain in the ass. Empaths can sit and have exp come to them. Which is easier?

[StrayRogue]

Explain how I can keep my head full (always) when there is no one in the area.

Explain how it's fun for me to sit around, alone, on the dais in the quite hours.

And another thing, you say I can get experience easily. Fair play. How do I get money? Or fame? Or nifty boxfounds?

Finaly I suggest you trying a sub level 20 empath who levels by healing alone. I'll do you a favour and send you a silver bullet: you'll be needing to shoot yourself from the boredom.

[Drew]

Finaly I suggest you trying a sub level 20 empath who levels by healing alone. I'll do you a favour and send you a silver bullet: you'll be needing to shoot yourself from the boredom.


I got mine through the first 10 which are the hardest levels.

[StrayRogue]

I got mine through the first 10 which are the hardest levels.

Doing nothing but healing? Sorry but I don't believe you.

[Orp]

Now that remark about empaths really bites. First of all there are plenty of other professions that can keep their heads full while not hunting, two that come to mind immediately are rouges and cleric's
I have never seen a rouge scorned because he/she were not picking or a cleric scorned because he/she were not raising.
Let me tell you from personal experience I have been sworn at, refused picking and refused a raise once because I did not come scurrying to tc when some idiot could not figure out what herbs to eat to stop bleeding, but I should have immediately dropped my hunting and gotten my ass back to tc to heal him.
I have been harassed to heal people when I just spelled up to go hunting and yelled at that I was not healing, I have never seen a rouge scolded or yelled at for not picking or a cleric for not raising, but I have seen plenty of healers harassed for not healing.
Healers heal because they want to, if they do not want to heal there are plenty of herbs on the bench that will heal a person up, most people have gotten to lazy to learn what herbs do what.

Finally most low level empath need to heal to train as it is difficult for them to hunt, and then when you get older unless you come in with a bunch of majors, it really is not worth my time to heal inmost cases as I do not learn. I heal because I want to.
I rarely take tips so I do not profit
I end up with scars and have to heal them down so I can go hunt while you have gone to hunt and come back I am still waiting on mana and the need to respell because I took the time to heal you
So before you go spouting off about empaths get your facts straight

Empaths are probably the hardest working characters in the game, and what's worse is they are expected to heal

My two and a half cents

[Drew]

Who doesn't have their facts straight?


Empaths have the easiest exp gain in the game. That's why there are so many capped empaths. Sure it might be boring to some people, but if you find the defining act of the class and the interaction associated with it boring, don't play that class.

[Orp]

must be the reason there are so many capped rogues as well as cleric's
I play a empath because I want to not because I am forced to heal, but because I CHOOSE to heal

[Drew]

Clerics and rogues don't get near the kind of non-hunting exp that empaths do. Maybe you didn't know this?

[Asha]

I don't think clerics can really constantly keep their heads full unless it's an invasion. Rogues don't always have the rooom to themselves for service so they don't really either unless you're Porcell.
Empaths I've seen are well busier.

[Gan]

Clerics and rogues don't get near the kind of non-hunting exp that empaths do. Maybe you didn't know this?

/confirmed


as the player of a capped empath and a level 87 rogue. :)

[Orp]

I know rouges that only pick and do not hunt and stay fried all day so thats a misnomer and same with clerics depends what town yer in
empaths do not have a room to themselves either....I would tend to say rouges do...as it is custumary for them to pick in seperate areas every where but Illi

[Asha]

So rogues don't have the tower in Landing and Empaths don't have the TSC?

[Orp]

you stated "Rogues don't always have the rooom to themselves for service so they don't really either unless you're Porcell"
even clerics have a room of their own....the temple or voln
As far as the landing would not know never hunted there nor spent anymore time there then it takes to run to Voln but am sure they have their own spots there as well

[Asha]

Don't ALWAYS have a room to themselves. And Porcell is Tsins box hoarding bitch.
He's still good people though.

You should listen to people who've experience in these matters such as Ganalon ect. Not including Landing in your assuptions is pretty stupid since it's one of the main populated areas in game.

[Orp]

my statement was rouges have there own spots other then the the dais, and as far as listening to anyone that knows about empaths I just have to refrence what I and friends who have puffs experiance if you have not played one maybe you should take the same advice you are giving

[Asha]

I have, and I'm trying to educate you. Much like your English teacher failed to do so.

[Orp]

well honey yours did not do a great job either so don't bother to teach me

[StrayRogue]

I'm still wanting to know how I can keep my head full permanently when the dais is empty.

Hey if you want to relegate empaths to full time healers only, fine. But then rangers have to be only able to use bows. Rogues can only steal and pick boxes. Clerics can only raise etc etc.

[Fallen]

I'm still wanting to know how I can keep my head full permanently when the dais is empty.

Hey if you want to relegate empaths to full time healers only, fine. But then rangers have to be only able to use bows. Rogues can only steal and pick boxes. Clerics can only raise etc etc.

Which is why I believe they should split the profession. Before, empaths could heal and be sub-par, but adequate if properly trained hunters along with having the ability to heal for experience. Now they can do both with ease. I personally think there is enough to the profession for it to be split into two full parts, and have both fully fleshed out. My guess is most will disagree.

[Drew]

Empaths could hunt only poorly for 14 years of the game's existence. The sorc-path is entirely new. I don't think that empaths should have to sit on ass all day, I do think that they shouldn't be as good as offensive classes. I'd like to see a split where the empath class got throttled back a bit in hunting ability to GS3 era skills and monks got limited healing skills but were more offensive (like paladins).

[Drew]

Haha your post was up when I opened the page Fallen. Great minds?

[StrayRogue]

There is a divide though. You either choose to be able to hunt well and heal shit, or heal well and hunt not so good. Rogues make the same choice with hunting and picking.

[Fallen]

There is a divide though. You either choose to be able to hunt well and heal shit, or heal well and hunt not so good. Rogues make the same choice with hunting and picking.


Past level 70, what is the difference, if any, that a healing oriented empath will have over a hunting oriented empath? Keep in mind I mean oriented in the sense that if there are cheap thresholds for gains to be made, the hunting empath will make them to be able to heal better, but the focus is on combat, and the reverse.

All I can think of is scar/wound healing RT. They will be able to take the same types of wounds, ect.

[Asha]

There is a divide though. You either choose to be able to hunt well and heal shit, or heal well and hunt not so good. Rogues make the same choice with hunting and picking.

Nah man I don't agree.
My rogue is fully cman and dodge, basicly everything you'd want a killing rogue and I triple disarm and pick.
THW rogue max hunter with max box skills.
If you're not gay with your PTPs you'll do it no prob.

By 90 she'll open any box in game and murder any creature.

So no, no choice having to be made on my part.

[Orp]

I'm still wanting to know how I can keep my head full permanently when the dais is empty.

Hey if you want to relegate empaths to full time healers only, fine. But then rangers have to be only able to use bows. Rogues can only steal and pick boxes. Clerics can only raise etc etc.


You can't I have sat there after a hunt with a full head early evening maybe had two people ask for healing which I let the empath on duty take
There are times that you can heal for 3 hours straight and other days your lucky if you get 3 heals in an hour.............all minors
:medieval:

[Gan]

The only town I've been able to keep a full head with only healing has been the landing and during normal US playing hours. Thats fogging out and doing rescues, since there are others who fight over wounds in TC.

[StrayRogue]

Exactly Ganalon. Considering the hours I play, the dais is either full of zombies or is empty all together.

Ash I'd need to see your training. Playing the original THW rogue I know for a fact you can't combine picking with max hunting skills. So unless you're not training in ambush, armour, PT or not tripling dodge (which would suggest your not maxing hunting skills), I don't believe you.

[Ignot]

I agree with Drew. Emapths should be healers first and combat second. I always pictured a fighting empath there not to crush everything but just as support to the group.

I am not saying that they should be confined to sit int TC forever but they should not be exceptional hunters either.

Empaths have an easier time keeping their heads filled with healing/hunting but really with the bounty system I am rarely ever not saturated anyways.

I still think they need more healing/support type spells and less attack spells.

[Celephais]

I think the problem is they have no really good way to encourage grouping, in a manner that would make it acceptable for a healer to go into "support mode". Obviously the population doesn't support a WoW style where solo exp is so crazy slower than grouping, but something where you get field exp directly into your til level (not into your head) if you kill in a group manner, and this can be capped in such a way as to prevent constant hunting (maybe a second absorbtion bucket?). This way people can still hunt solo, but if they opt to hunt in an area with critters that can be better group hunted (I'm thinking like a hydra, where you can "crit kill" it multiple times for it to die) they can exp faster.

[Gan]

I am not saying that they should be confined to sit int TC forever but they should not be exceptional hunters either.

Then neither should picking focused rogues, or enchanting focused wizards, or any other profession that has a basis other than hunting...

I dont agree with that logic.

Considering how little available (CM's) and how expensive hunting skills are for empaths, I think the current spell availability with the addition of a few extras are just peachy by me. Furthermore it makes perfect sense for the empath to be able to reverse the healing process on targets should the empath choose to do so. I'm all for additional spells and abilities that show a deeper knowledge of how the body works and how things can work against the body in an offensive manner.

[AestheticDeath]

I personally just don't like the profession system. Thats how GS works though.

I would prefer a system where your 'class' is determined by what you train in. You get tiers of TP costs. You could choose one tier for hunting, one for picking, one for thieving, one for healing etc.. And order them however you use them. The one you use the most, gets the cheapest training costs, and the one you use the least costs the most.

You could switch 'professions' at anytime. The less you use a skill you already have, the more rusty you become, and its like a phantom loss, that you could regain easily by using the skill.

Its been 5 or 6 years since I tried Dragon Realms, but I think they had something similar. Though you could join a guild or something.

[Celephais]

Hey, Enchanting focus' wizards are screwed... and it's not like they can get any reliable sort of exp gains off enchanting. If you focus on enchanting as a wizard you will have reduced (not completely nulled) combat effiency, because you can't train to make up for it (wizard spell ranks aren't nearly as good as either of the elemental spell ranks for combat effiency, and since 3x is the best you can do, you have to choose between enchanting or combat)

[Jolena]

Doing nothing but healing? Sorry but I don't believe you.

Honestly, the first 20 levels were the easiest for me with my empath. Strictly healed as well, not one swing out of it. I did that until 25, then started slowly experimenting with hunting, via Chica's training plan. Now, I heal and hunt about the same amount, and one of the main reasons that I don't heal alot more than I do is because healing isn't guaranteed. There are tons of time periods where I get MAYBE 1-3 patients per hour, and there's still no guarantee that any of them will have much more than minors. Whereas with hunting, I can pretty much gaurantee that I will find creatures to hunt. Its a good combination to give empaths hunting abilities, in my opinion. Mainly because patients are not gauranteed. You can literally sit in a gathering spot in a city for HOURS and not get more than a few patients at times. Othertimes it is swamped. :shrug: I think it works out rather fairly taking that into consideration.

[Jolena]

Who doesn't have their facts straight?


Empaths have the easiest exp gain in the game. That's why there are so many capped empaths. Sure it might be boring to some people, but if you find the defining act of the class and the interaction associated with it boring, don't play that class.

Woah, Drew babe, back up. It is not the ACT of healing that is boring, nor is it the interaction associated with it. Its the fact that there is NO guarantee that you have of a certain amount of patients coming in with a certain amount of wounds per healer. Healing is much MUCH different than hunting, in that respect.

Yes, healers have the ability to learn experience from healing others, and in most cases they enjoy it in general. However, non-healers can go out and into a hunting area and pretty much gaurantee they have creatures to hunt. Healers don't have that ability. Hunting suppliments that. Why is that such a hard thing to understand and give us? If we were gauranteed the patients and wounds that we need, just like hunters have entering a hunting area, than I could easily (and would) see your point. As it stands, we don't have that, and we spend hours with only seeing a few patients. We can't choose our hunting ground like you can. We can't just decide "Oh these people don't have many major wounds, so I'm going to go to spot X where the people always have those wounds so I can learn". You, however, can say "Oh I don't learn from these anymore, so I'll go to this hunting area". See the difference? I'm not complaining that you have that, so why complain that we now have the ability to choose an area to go to hunt so that we have the same chance you do to learn?

[Gan]

Hey, Enchanting focus' wizards are screwed... and it's not like they can get any reliable sort of exp gains off enchanting. If you focus on enchanting as a wizard you will have reduced (not completely nulled) combat effiency, because you can't train to make up for it (wizard spell ranks aren't nearly as good as either of the elemental spell ranks for combat effiency, and since 3x is the best you can do, you have to choose between enchanting or combat)

I had a level 60 wizard who had no issues with enchanting or hunting. I feel he was the most well balanced character I had in my stable up until I sold him to a friend, now he's not mine anymore. ;)

And I could also keep his mind pretty full with the bevy of 4x and under projects he had going on his list.

If you appy the logic to a profession based path for one profession, then you need to apply it to all the professions equally. Otherwise its just a sucky excuse for game unbalance.

[Kembal]

Maybe all these people complaining don't know that we're getting 1106 nerfed in exchange for getting 1115? (1106 will be boosted for lower levels but will flatten out for higher levels)

And if anyone ever harasses me about not healing them right away, they're getting an empathic assault bolt to the head. (In that sense, I like the Elven Nations. I never run into that there.)

[Celephais]

I had a level 60 wizard who had no issues with enchanting or hunting. I feel he was the most well balanced character I had in my stable up until I sold him to a friend, now he's not mine anymore. ;)

And I could also keep his mind pretty full with the bevy of 4x and under projects he had going on his list.

If you appy the logic to a profession based path for one profession, then you need to apply it to all the professions equally. Otherwise its just a sucky excuse for game unbalance.

Do sorcs get exp for scroll infusion? If we're going to we would have to include all the classes that have access to imbed as well, if you have 420 your hunting ability should be reduced. Don't Bards get exp for singing? I don't believe you included clerics in your original list either (hell, as it stands "raiser" focused clerics have some of the best CS). Rangers who infuse, I think they get exp for that (resistence?)... who're we missing, warriors can bash boxes, lets not forget them.

Every class has a means of alt-exp, but empaths have to make zero change to their hunting training plan to be able to sit, on a node, and have extra "top off" exp trickle in to them as they rest at no extra cost, in sufficent quantity to keep them friend for several hours (on a good day). Possibly clerics too. (rogues at least have to train in lockpicking, empaths/clerics don't have to train beyond normal skills, and a wizard would have to buy potions and have something to enchant, in my experience 4x crap doesn't sell well enough to recoup the cost).

[Gan]

Transformation lore and the reduction of RT while healing.

[Gan]

... in my experience 4x crap doesn't sell well enough to recoup the cost).

You seriously need to reevaluate your player shop markets then. :)

[Rathain]

exp trickle in to them as they rest at no extra cost, in sufficent quantity to keep them friend for several hours (on a good day). Possibly clerics too

Nope. An empath can take a wound from any character, and is awarded exp that is not dependent on level. If your cleric is raising someone 50 trains beneath them, the amount of exp awarded is substantially dwarfed. This does make a huge difference.

[Gan]

Hey, Mr. MPD reappears! (Lassiter506/Rathain).

:clap:

[Rathain]

Reappeared? Hadn't realized I left.

But thanks for the recognition.

[Gan]

Sure thing..... freak.

[Celephais]

Transformation lore and the reduction of RT while healing.

You don't need either of those to keep fried (I guess you don't need much training to do 4x enchants..)


You seriously need to reevaluate your player shop markets then. :)

I guess I'll have to... didn't realize they had any sort of resale potential

[Gan]

You don't need either of those to keep fried (I guess you don't need much training to do 4x enchants..)

Considering the amount of RT experienced when attmepting to heal down wounds transferred at a young age with little or no transformation lore, and how it can interrupt your ability to take on new customers, I'd say its a pretty large factor in maintaining a high state of bucket experience.

[Celephais]

I'm not talking about a young age. Even then, herbs are plentiful at most healing locations, and when I played my healing empath I had no problems just healing between customers... occasionally I'd be in a few seconds of RT when they asked for healing, but if you're not in a cutthroat vulture area that's no problem.

All I'm saying is it's really easy for a hunting empath to stay fried on a node (so absorbing ~50% faster) between bounties or whatever than a lot of other professions at no real training cost.

[AestheticDeath]

Empaths dont even need to heal scars beyond head/nerve, you can take wounds over scars. And you can get heal downs from other empaths so you only have lvl 1 scars or wounds to deal with.

If you get into the slave area of it.. you wouldnt ever really have to heal down.

Empaths have it much easier than any other profession. I am not gonna complain about it though. If I want it that easy - Ill play an empath.

[Latrinsorm]

People want healing. They don't want a conversation while I casually remove their wounds over a period of five minutes. They want it done fast and efficiently.There are two things wrong with this strand. First, it's still possible to have a social interaction alongside fast and efficient healing. Second, you're making an erroneous empirical claim about what "people" want. A more accurate and defensible claim would be "people like me want etc.".
I got mine through the first 10 which are the hardest levels.Mark down a third witness, except replace "10" with "45". In fairness, I had intended to run iron, but my empath couldn't muster enough strength to activate the bellows, which I found awfully funny.
then when you get older unless you come in with a bunch of majors, it really is not worth my time to heal inmost cases as I do not learn.I will assume for the purposes of this post that by "older" you mean "higher level". Healer level (and as Rathain mentioned, healee level) has absolutely 0 effect on experience gained from healing. I'm not positive if healer age does or not, but I'm leaning towards "not".
to keep them friend for several hours (on a good day).It's very unusual to stay fried for "several" hours. It's not hard to stay at muddled or better, but to be constantly fried is very difficult.

People do realize that "fried" only accounts for a 5% range of the bucket, right? For most people that amounts to 48 or so experience, or three pulses (tops). That means a healer can't go three minutes without healing over whatever period you want to suggest that they remain constantly fried. Does anyone here seriously think that there's a wounded character in TSC every three minutes of every day?

[Drew]

Yes, healers have the ability to learn experience from healing others, and in most cases they enjoy it in general. However, non-healers can go out and into a hunting area and pretty much gaurantee they have creatures to hunt. Healers don't have that ability. Hunting suppliments that. Why is that such a hard thing to understand and give us? If we were gauranteed the patients and wounds that we need, just like hunters have entering a hunting area, than I could easily (and would) see your point. As it stands, we don't have that, and we spend hours with only seeing a few patients. We can't choose our hunting ground like you can. We can't just decide "Oh these people don't have many major wounds, so I'm going to go to spot X where the people always have those wounds so I can learn".


I understand that healers don't have any sort of guarantee of wounds. Hunters do have "guaranteed" exp, I understand that as well. However hunting takes a lot more effort, as StrayRogue has pointed out healing can be as simple as two macros. I know from personal experience how easy healing is. Also how bad a large number of empath players are at hunting (because they've never had to hunt). I feel that it's a fair trade off: I have to spend a lot of effort to hunt but I get guaranteed exp. Empaths have to exert extremely little effort, but they have no guarantees. This hasn't stopped empaths from capping though, as I've mentioned. There are a ton of capped empaths who haven't hunted regularly ever.

What I don't agree with is that they have the option of getting the super easy exp or hunting just as well as my character can. That doesn't make any sense. My character can't hunt till fried then come in and keep a slow burn down of exp going on for a couple of hours (which is not very hard as an empath playing at a regular US hour), it's also much more efficient to sit on a node the whole time and keep that burn going than it is for me to go waste 15-20 minutes off node to refill my head (especially on triple x, as long as you keep your mind above fresh & clear and stay on node you are doing better than anyone who has to hunt off-node).

[Drisco]

When is this spell suppose to come out? I have my fixskill and Im wanting to use it, but if Boneshatter isnt gonna be my primary spell then I really dont wanna use it until wither comes out. Also is it going to be a Bolt spell and when it comes out are we going to get a Fixskill for it?

[Fallen]

No ETA

[Drisco]

Think we will get a fixskill when it comes out?

[Asha]

no

[Drisco]

damn

[TheEschaton]

You should be training in your empath circle anyways for your bone shatter. I doubt 1115 will require more than what Bone Shatter does, for it to be successful.

[Drisco]

Yah as long as it is CS im happy

[Drisco]

It's about time empaths get another attack spell tho. For the empaths who are pure CS we can only hunt things with bones and there is really no other attack spell for us in all of our spell circles. I just hope this new spell isn't gonna revolve around withering skin or something. I'm hoping it will be able to be used on anything.

[Fallen]

It's about time empaths get another attack spell tho. For the empaths who are pure CS we can only hunt things with bones and there is really no other attack spell for us in all of our spell circles. I just hope this new spell isn't gonna revolve around withering skin or something. I'm hoping it will be able to be used on anything.


Correct. They confirmed whether your target is Spiritual or Living, it can be withered.

[Asha]

It sounds like a really wank DS / AS / TD lowering spell along the lines of a curse.
Which in the end won't really do you any favours with boneshatter against shit with no bones. Just an assumption though.
Anyone know what this spell is actually meant to do?

[Drisco]

It sounds like a really wank DS / AS / TD lowering spell along the lines of a curse.

If this is true I'll be majorly pissed we already have enough of those.

[Kembal]

The only information that we have is that it will be an attack spell usuable on all classes of creatures in the game (living, corporeal undead, noncorporeal undead), something we didn't have with any of our spells except fire spirit.

And oh, guys, empaths on the official boards have been advocating that hunting empaths have their healing abilities whacked even more. Along with a healing experience review with the endgoal of reducing the exp from injuries. (Estild and Oscuro have that scheduled already.) Why? So we can gain better hunting ability for those who like hunting as empaths.

[Drisco]

How are they gonna tell the hunting empaths from the healing ones, and is the attack spell as in bone shatter damage spell or like Interference damage?

[Kembal]

Differentiated training paths, mainly using lores. Maybe introduce a stamina requirement...a healing empath would 3x PF, something a hunting empath cannot do. I dunno. There was a thread on the officials about it.

As for damage levels on the new spell, it's supposed to approach current Bone Shatter levels. (it better, anyway)

[Ignot]

All classes are the same anyways....when you think about it.

[Fallen]

eh. No.

No other class can summon a demon or animate the dead aside from 1 rattle, and that thing sucks in comparison. No one else can sacrifice.

No one can hide, ambush, or pick locks as well as a rogue. You can do it well, but not AS well.

No one else can have an animal companion. Familiars pale in comparison. Nor can anyone else imbue armor.

No one else can have access to Warcries, Guard/Protect, or Beserk but warriors.

etc etc

[Ignot]

I still think they are all pretty smilar and there is not enough class definition.

[StrayRogue]

I like that about Gemstone IV. If I want to be a magic wielding, full plate wearing claidh swinging rogue, I can be.

[Artha]

eh. No.

Most of these changes reflect flavor messaging or slight differences in mechanics. Thanks to Warden's GS, no class has any outstanding, useful abilities...because if one class is different from another, it might be unbalancing.

[Fallen]

Most of these changes reflect flavor messaging or slight differences in mechanics. Thanks to Warden's GS, no class has any outstanding, useful abilities...because if one class is different from another, it might be unbalancing. >>

All GS ever was is flavor messaging.

To expound:

Wizards - Enchanting, Magical Item charging
Sorcerers - Scroll infusion, X-realms Transportation
Rangers - Imbue, Magical Item creation (Not 420)
Bards - Loresinging
Empaths - Healing for EXP
Warriors - Profession exclusive Cmans/Abilities, Guard/Protect
Rogues - ... Usually considered jack of all trades. Sort of lacking in originality. Profession exclusive CMANS, the Spell casting squares class

Clerics - Blessed Gem creation is a lot like 420, but also has several unique effect to include Deity conversion, offensive gems, transportation, and Death's Sting lessoning. Resurrection as much as they want. Spell heavy

Paladins - Combat heavy, capable of generating the highest AS in the game, one big duplicate of Weapon bonding is Sanctify.

Clerics and Paladins are obviously a lot alike. It should be obvious why. Rogues dont have anything that makes them TRULY unique, but they are pretty well liked. Warriors have more than a few very profession specific tools.

All the other classes have very specific profession defining abilities. They also have abilities which share characteristics with others. No one else can enchant, however. No one else can infuse scrolls. Etc.

[Nilandia]

Small bit of news, but Estild's posted on the officials that Empaths will get a fixskills when 1115 is rolled in.

"Bone Shatter (1106) is being completely reworked, with only its concept remaining constant. And because these spells are the staple to empathic hunting, there could be significant training adjustments by players to make use of said tools."

Gretchen

[Artha]

To expound:

Wizards: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, enchanting.
Sorcerers: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, scroll infusion.
Empaths: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, healing.
Clerics: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, resurrection.
Rangers: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, access to cmans, cheap stealth.
Bards: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, access to cmans, loresinging.
Paladins: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty, access to cmans, resurrection, heavy armor.
Warriors: Access to a variety of cmans to kill shit with varying difficulty, guild abilities, heavy armor.
Rogues: Access to a variety of cmans to kill shit with varying difficulty, guild abilities, heavy armor, cheap stealth.

[Gan]

Small bit of news, but Estild's posted on the officials that Empaths will get a fixskills when 1115 is rolled in.

"Bone Shatter (1106) is being completely reworked, with only its concept remaining constant. And because these spells are the staple to empathic hunting, there could be significant training adjustments by players to make use of said tools."

Gretchen

This blows. :(

And now its going to nuke my saved fixskill since they dont stack.

**Nilandia, can you post the link to Estild's post? I didnt see it when I scanned the Empath folder.

[Celephais]

This blows. :(

And now its going to nuke my saved fixskill since they dont stack.

**Nilandia, can you post the link to Estild's post? I didnt see it when I scanned the Empath folder.

If you know when, or about when, the fixskills will be released, fixskill your stats to zero prior to the release, you'll have all the points to spend and you won't have to waste a fixskills to get it... another option for if you don't know when would be to fixskills yourself down to bare minimum, pretty much what you would have no matter what they do with skill requirements (IE your physical training, harness power, 2x spells, your brawl/shield or runestaff skills) and then when the fixskill is released and changes made you'll have points to spend as need be and a backup fixskill.

[Drisco]

Empaths: A variety of spells to kill shit with varying difficulty
.. Joking right?



Has he set a date or given any hints to when the spell will come into effect?

[Gan]

If you know when, or about when, the fixskills will be released, fixskill your stats to zero prior to the release, you'll have all the points to spend and you won't have to waste a fixskills to get it... another option for if you don't know when would be to fixskills yourself down to bare minimum, pretty much what you would have no matter what they do with skill requirements (IE your physical training, harness power, 2x spells, your brawl/shield or runestaff skills) and then when the fixskill is released and changes made you'll have points to spend as need be and a backup fixskill.

Excellent idea. I have always wondered if that would work (in the back of my head).

[Celephais]

Excellent idea. I have always wondered if that would work (in the back of my head).

I can confirm it does work (I fixskilled all of my alt toons to zero skills right before the fixskill came out and now it's like they have two fixskills)

[Nilandia]

**Nilandia, can you post the link to Estild's post? I didnt see it when I scanned the Empath folder.
Yup.

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=26&topic=18&message=1149

and

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=26&topic=18&message=1152

Gretchen

[Kembal]

Based on Estild's comments, my guess is that the only skills being affected are lores and possibly first aid. (since it ties into bone shatter's instakill ability) I suppose SMC and MMC are possiblities as well.

Estild did say though we would get all the necessary info before the spell was released (along with the fixskills) when I asked, so I'm not too concerned. Both him and Oscuro are very good at taking player concerns into account.

[Jolena]

I'm concerned to say the least. My empath relies on BS to hunt, though she also swings a brawler just for fun on occassion. Seems like BS might get a major nerf and if so, not sure what the future will hold for my buggy besides healing in TSC all day :(

[Nilandia]

Estild has posted that most people would see almost no change in 1106. It's only the people with a training to maximize it who might see anything.

Gretchen

[Gan]

I'm satisfied with the answer I got from Estid. The focus seems to be more on lores than on anything else. There might be some spillover into first aid training, but I dont think that it will be enough to merit nuking the skill, or the added benefit it has with skinning income.

Once we get closer to implementation date I'll probably push my healer's skills back to zero, let the new fixskill get applied and then walk my skills back up accordingly without losing the fixskill.

[Kyra]

I'm more concerned about the drop of the 200's(whenever it comes about) than the changes to BS, 1115 sounds like it will be a nice change(I hope).

~K

[Artha]

.. Joking right?
I wrote the guide, I think I know about Empaths. You have 1106, 1110 and soon 1115, plus 111 and 110 and any other minor/major spirit attack spells.

[Gan]

And 118 with the new changes.

[Danical]

I wrote the guide, I think I know about Empaths. You have 1106, 1110 and soon 1115, plus 111 and 110 and any other minor/major spirit attack spells.

I'm the Empath GM. So . . .

/Penelope

[Drisco]

For people who are pure BS casters 111 and 1110 is worthless. 110 is useless against older things as most are unbalance resistence and no one puts enough ranks in to even get their CS high enough to hit something with that spell. 1106 is the only spell we got and it is useless against things with no bones. Most empaths that cast are pure BS too...

[Latrinsorm]

It's not very difficult to train both Spell Aim and Empath circle to make 111 and 1106 useful.

[Drisco]

Yah but those tp's could go into making ur CS mutch stronger and things like trading, skinning, or lores.

[Latrinsorm]

Doubling Spell Aim would cost 909/303 at cap. At 32 MTPs a shot for the third spell rank, that's only going to get you about 25 more spell ranks, which would only get you about 8 more CS. That doesn't really seem "much" higher, and it's assuming an empath can only manage to double spell research while doubling spell aim, which is pretty conservative (even with some lores).

[Gan]

Most empaths that cast are pure BS too...

That would be disappointing if a majority of the empath community were simply overloading their skills to be only a pure BS caster (ala Gob build).

There is so much more diversity to having 111 and 1110 in your spell mix. My empath kills by casting. Brawl is simply used for DS until I can get him to finish Voln, then I'll be able to use it as an offensive alternative.

You cant imagine how frustrated I would be if I were a BS build with that kind of investment and when it comes down to crunch time in an invasion suddenly realize that your offensive ability has just been nuked by a BS immune target.

Give me alternatives and I'll adjust accordingly, every time.

[Drisco]

It is rotten when there is a invasion where they are BS immune but yah get over it. It is the price you pay I guess... But after switching from spell aim/BS to BS only, I dont regret it. Sure there is some things I can't hunt but the things I can, I can do well.

[Jolena]

:yeahthat:

Though I am in favor of diversifying, I simply found that with my particular empath, having a BS build with brawling for added DS when open-handed channeling as well as a (somewhat) viable option for weapons if I want or need to for mana preservation is the best way to go.

[Drisco]

100% Agree with Jolena

[Danical]

I dunno, I think the new web is really sexy.

If spell aim wasn't so retardedly expensive, my arachne paladin would web first then go to town with his weapon. With his summoning lore, it would be great but it's way too expensive to train in.

[Kembal]

I built Kembal with the ability to use spell aim and CS spells. Really, the diversifed options that gives makes it possible to pretty much anything.

I'm really looking forward to Wither coming out...not having to channel spells in offensive will probably reduce my deaths in half. (they already got reduced a ton when the new web came out...web bolt is a really good disabler.)

[Danical]

If you hunt with BS you can't hunt the lower floor of the temple because you can't hit Greater Water Elementals, Water Elementals, Sentries, and Defenders. You can however, hit Magi, Radicals, Sirens, Combatants, and Executioners.

I suppose if you only want to hunt the third level where radicals, sirens, executioners, combatants, and defenders spawn then you've got a good load of creatures to pick from.

[AestheticDeath]

Cant hit them because they dont have bones?

[Drisco]

Well when wither comes out we won't even have to worry about what we hunt.