RP Pet Peeve

[Drisco]

My biggest Pet Peeve is when people correct me on my spelling IG.

ex.

thier - there
its- it's
didnt - didn't
ect. ect.

Its stupid as hell to correct it because they sound the same as if you were talking so to correct it is toatly OOC. So people should stop effing doing it casue It's driving me crazy.

[Nieninque]

Or you could learn to spell

[Ignot]

yeah, it's just easier on the eyes when you spell it correctly. of course....im horrible at spelling so i bet people hate me.

[RichardCranium]

Of your three examples only one is a spelling correction.

Just saying.

[Artha]

Or you could learn to spell

QFT. You're playing a text based game, god.

[Tenzle]

When they correct you, they are correcting your pronunciation, not your spelling. Which would not be unheard of rp for a good many types of characters.

[Bobmuhthol]

Etc., not ect.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<When they correct you, they are correcting your pronunciation, not your spelling.>>


they sound the same

[Drisco]

It doesn't matter wheather I'm spelling it right or not It's OOC ethier way, they sound the same.. It may be a text base game, but once again it's as if you speaking it IC so you can't tell the diffrence. OOC no matter how you twist it. Like imagine if you said go over their to you friend and he was like its spelt t-h-e-r-e ud be like wtf?

[Nieninque]

Your spelling makes my eyes bleed. I wouldnt want to RP with you because it's too much of a distraction.

l2spell

[Khariz]

It doesn't matter wheather I'm spelling it right or not It's OOC ethier way, they sound the same.. It may be a text base game, but once again it's as if you speaking it IC so you can't tell the diffrence. OOC no matter how you twist it. Like imagine if you said go over their to you friend and he was like its spelt t-h-e-r-e ud be like wtf?

I'm gonna start doing that to people now.

[Ignot]

Your spelling makes my eyes bleed. I wouldnt want to RP with you because it's too much of a distraction.

l2spell

wouldn't

[Drisco]

Originally Posted by Nieninque
Your spelling makes my eyes bleed.

Well then you've made me happier.


I wouldnt want to RP with you because it's too much of a distraction.


You should shut up your being hypocritical.



I'm gonna start doing that to people now.

Clearly RP'ing has gone out the window.

[Ignot]

Bah, Rping is overated anyways.

[SpunGirl]

LOL @ "your" being stupid.

When you use punctuation and grammar correctly, and can spell lots of words, it's nice. I've seen some very intelligent people come off as total idiots because of an extremely weak grasp of the English language.

Correcting someone's "spelling" IG is OOC, however. Just say, "you need to speak more clearly, I can't understand a damn thing you're saying."

-K

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Clearly RP'ing has gone out the window.>>

Clearly your reading comprehension is failing.

[Celephais]

So when people correct you they should do so in OOC whispers, would that make you happier?

Eef eye plaide thu gayme an tie-ped lyeke this eye hoepe peeple wood corerect me.

[Drisco]

Originally Posted by Drisco
I'm not a grammer kinda guy and Ill be the first to admit it. I usually speak and write in french.

Thats my excuse wheres everyone else?

I don't see how I need to spell correctly every little thing I write when people can grasp what I am saying. I dont see what the hells the problem?

[Drisco]

Eef eye plaide thu gayme an tie-ped lyeke this eye hoepe peeple wood corerect me.

I wouldn't correct you because it looks like you are rp'ing a speech impediment.

[Bobmuhthol]

Vous etes francais? Oh mon dieu!

[Alfster]

French, rofl

[Celephais]

Everybody else doesn't need an excuse, because they know how to spell. I make the occasional spelling/grammar mistake and people don't bother me about it, you must be pretty consistently F'n up if being corrected has become a pet peeve, and if that's the case you should be corrected so that you stop. I bet there are more people with a pet peeve of people who can't spell than have your problem.

And being french isn't an excuse, you're playing an english game.

[Celephais]

I wouldn't correct you because it looks like you are rp'ing a speech impediment.

I'm pretty sure the GMs don't want people RPing any speech problems by typing them. Infact I seem to recall someone getting yelled at for speaking with an accent. There are speech verbs for this very reason.

[Drisco]

Heh your second sentence is fine but the first one is wrong. For the future heh etes is summer.


And being french isn't an excuse, you're playing an english game.

Hmmm wondering if that even requires a comment.



you must be pretty consistently F'n up if being corrected has become a pet peeve,

Nope not at all, I've only been corrected by a few people and it is not that I mind getting corrected, it is how people do it as an insult to my rp'ing when really they are being OOC for correcting it.

[Danical]

1 star

:(

[Bobmuhthol]

hahaha, I love this guy. I took 4 years of French and he's trying to tell me that I don't remember how to conjugate etre.

&#233;t&#233; is summer, tyvm.

PS. I don't have accents on my keyboard since I don't live in France, which probably caused the confusion. Etes (you are) and etes (summers) look pretty similar in plain Arabic letters.

[vontez]

you are all awful, and VERY anal retentive. Who cares if someone's spelling is a bit off? It's a game, and a roleplaying game...the fact that someone is actually roleplaying should make you much happier than someone who never roleplays, but has perfect grammar.

Also, I believe Drisco has indicated that English isn't his first language...many of you do not, so perhaps you should put yourself in his shoes before you lambast him for a few minor misspellings.

[Nieninque]

You should shut up your being hypocritical.

a) "You're" or "you are", not "your".
b) I would only be hypocritical if I made a thread here about how my pet peeve was people correcting my spelling, punctuation and grammar on the forums, despite the fact that they know what I am trying to say.
c) You're stupid.

[Nieninque]

Thats my excuse wheres everyone else?

I don't see how I need to spell correctly every little thing I write when people can grasp what I am saying. I dont see what the hells the problem?

The problem is that you created this thread.
You said it was a pet peeve because people keep correcting you.
You then said only a few people corrected you.
You don't appear to have a clue what you are on about.

There is a difference between making mistakes from time to time and just being too fucking lazy to learn to use the English language correctly.

If French isnt your first language, take the time to learn when people correct you so they dont have to do it again...or maybe try and find a french speaking game.

[Bobmuhthol]

If French isnt your first language, take the time to learn when people correct you so they dont have to do it again...or maybe try and find a french speaking game.

This needs to be saved based on your previous posts.

[Drisco]

If French isnt your first language, take the time to learn when people correct you so they dont have to do it again...or maybe try and find a french speaking game.

You're just fucking up. Seriously I think you are the idiot... no offence



I would only be hypocritical if I made a thread here about how my pet peeve was people correcting my spelling, punctuation and grammar on the forums, despite the fact that they know what I am trying to say.

Didn't you call me out for my spelling? Saying it makes your eyes bleed?

[Bobmuhthol]

Je suis si francais!!

[Celephais]

You're just fucking up. Seriously I think you are the idiot... no offence

hah, no offence... just offend, sheesh.

missing apostrophes, not capitalizing the first letter of a word, not putting a comma in, or random typos I don't think anyone really cares in game, but consistently using the wrong homophone might make me whisper to you just to make sure you knew, because honestly if I saw it I would just assume you didn't. If they said it outloud and actually tried to RP a "teacher" type mentality, yes that's freaking stupid, but if they're just correcting you then the obvious way to make the corrections stop is to get it right.

Oh, I also had to laugh at Bob for thinking four years in a language makes you infallible, especially when that correction is coming from someone claiming it as a first language (if he's wrong about the correction, you can make fun of him for that but a "please, I took four years!", rofl).

[Danical]

Who the hell rated this a 5 star thread?

[Drisco]

Technically Im not french but I moved to Quebec when I was 5 and it was all I learned.

Oh by all means correct me in a whisper if I keep doing it, but to insult me about it IC and in public trying make me feel my rp'ing is stupid is just plain retarded.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Oh, I also had to laugh at Bob for thinking four years in a language makes you infallible, especially when that correction is coming from someone claiming it as a first language (if he's wrong about the correction, you can make fun of him for that but a "please, I took four years!", rofl).>>

It's the conjugation of the verb for "to be." You learn it pretty fucking quickly. My post also had an underlying irony -- a guy who speaks French as a first language *should* know better than someone that studied it for a few years. I never said I was infallible, I just know how to conjugate a fucking verb.

[Khariz]

<<Oh, I also had to laugh at Bob for thinking four years in a language makes you infallible, especially when that correction is coming from someone claiming it as a first language (if he's wrong about the correction, you can make fun of him for that but a "please, I took four years!", rofl).>>

It's the conjugation of the verb for "to be." You learn it pretty fucking quickly. My post also had an underlying irony -- a guy who speaks French as a first language *should* know better than someone that studied it for a few years. I never said I was infallible, I just know how to conjugate a fucking verb.

Yeah this is like me using the spanish word se, and getting corrected.

edit: and I mis-type! I meant "es".

[Bobmuhthol]

J'ai baise la mere de Celephais. HO HO HO HO HO le francais est le victeur!

[Daniel]

Where is Xcalibur when we need him

[Snapp]

Please don't even mention him... he might show up.

[Jazuela]

It bothers me when people don't make some *attempt* to spell and punctuate correctly. I make plenty of typos and mistakes when I RP on text games, especially when I'm in a rush to get the text to the game world and off my buffer (or when I'm really tired). But in many games, players come from all over the world and English isn't a guaranteed first language for anyone you might come across in-game. So it helps to be tolerant to a point.

If the words are so badly mangled that you are sincerely unable to understand what the message is, then sure a quick private OOC might be in order.

If you notice a person is constantly typing in l33t sp34k (or however it's spelled), a heads up to the staff, or a private message/e-mail explaining - gently - that people might not want to interact with him if he continues treating the game as his personal chat-room might help.

Or, if you come across a lot of people doing the same kinds of "lazy" mistakes, posting in a forum like this would be useful. Assuming that those "lazy" typists even bother reading forums :)

But as Spun Girl said, correcting someone's spelling and punctuation isn't an IC thing. Correcting their pronunciation, or just plain roleplaying through the situation would be the best and quickest way to deal with it, if you want to prevent a potentially fun RP event to turn into a battle of syntax.

[Ignot]

I actually like it when people don't correct themselves too.

example:

Borat says: I think teh mountains are pretty.

Borat says: the

we know what you mean and we don't need more scroll. This isn't really a pet peeve so I'm not sure why I posted it.

[The Ponzzz]

These thread is they're bomb!

[Drew]

I actually like it when people don't correct themselves too.

example:

Borat says: I think teh mountains are pretty.

Borat says: the

we know what you mean and we don't need more scroll. This isn't really a pet peeve so I'm not sure why I posted it.



I agree, unless I really botched it then I'll correct it because I assume at this point my character has stumbled over the word like:

Borat says, "I think the mountads are pretty."

Borat says, "Mountains even."

[Daniel]

Please don't even mention him... he might show up.

ho ho ho

[Nieninque]

You're just fucking up. Seriously I think you are the idiot... no offence

I read a paper written by a professor of English at one of the Oxbridge universities a little while back. His debate was how the use of apostrophes is becoming unnecessary and that within a period of time, people will not use them at all.

I kind of liked that idea and am doing my part to further that cause and undermine the work of the Apostrophe Protection Society as being archaic.

My lack of apostrophes are a mixture of willful omission and laziness. It is not correct written English, I concur, but it isnt fucked up spelling. So therein lies a difference.


Didn't you call me out for my spelling? Saying it makes your eyes bleed?

I didnt call you out on it, you made a thread about it and cried because lots of (some) people corrected you about your spelling. Your spelling in your first two posts in this thread was appalling.

"ud be like wtf?"

"Ud"? You want to be able to spell like that in a thread where you are crying about people correcting your poor English? Give me a break.

[Nieninque]

This needs to be saved based on your previous posts.

As long as it gives you something to do, that's fine.
I doubt it could ever be used as well as the quote from you about resorting to the way someone looks, but whatever makes you happy, sweetheart.

[Ilvane]

Yeah, none of us are perfect. I would say try to spell the words correctly, but there is no rp way of correcting that, especially if they sound the same.

Angela

[Fallen]

As long as it gives you something to do, that's fine.
I doubt it could ever be used as well as the quote from you about resorting to the way someone looks, but whatever makes you happy, sweetheart.

You jump down people's throats all the time, Nieninque. Often for little to no reason. I wouldn't be so surprised if someone actually took the time to start randomly correcting and commenting on your various fuck ups.

[Bobmuhthol]

I don't even know what the fuck she's talking about so it doesn't bother me much.

[Ignot]

Yeah, none of us are perfect.

Speak for yourself.

[Nieninque]

You jump down people's throats all the time, Nieninque. Often for little to no reason. I wouldn't be so surprised if someone actually took the time to start randomly correcting and commenting on your various fuck ups.

I wouldnt be surprised either.
I would, however, be amused.

QQ

[Rue]

You know, the spelling and grammar errors never really bothered me. Not my pet peeve but I understand how it can be others, it is others choice to play with my character still or not just as it is my choice to play with others or not for whatever reasons. Usually I just pawn it off as poor common since I am guilty of such errors, especially when I am overly tired or have been um... drinking, yea that’s it drinking... ANYHOW!

My personal Pet Peeve would be overly ooc crap. I know there is always going to be some OOC and some is good, but if you want to chat with me ooc'ly just ask for my AIM and no, I don't use PSnet either.

Rue~
:flames:

[Apathy]

PS. I don't have accents on my keyboard since I don't live in France, which probably caused the confusion. Etes (you are) and etes (summers) look pretty similar in plain Arabic letters.

Wha in the hell r u talking aboat, you don't live in Arabia, you lives in AMERICA.

[Bobmuhthol]

Oh shit I meant American letters since Americans invented the alphabet.

Just caught the fact that I confused Arabic numbers with Latin letters. My bad.

[Ignot]

My pet peeve is people who roleplay to much.

[Stunseed]

(too)

+1!

[SpunGirl]

Hahaha, we have Xcalibur part deux. Awesomeface.

Not that I don't have sympathy for people whose first language is not English, but it can get pretty fucking ridiculous at times. If you've ever talked to Foxs you know what I'm talking about.

-K

[Fallen]

Not that I don't have sympathy for people whose first language is not English, but it can get pretty fucking ridiculous at times. If you've ever talked to Foxs you know what I'm talking about. >>

See, i've dealt with Foxs (the Faendryl, right?). I had pretty good interactions. Perhaps her poor grasp of the english language shows itself more in prolonged conversations.

[CrystalTears]

I think it's funny how people get upset with those who want a TEXT game to have correct spelling.

I'm sure if Nien were making constant, blatant mistakes in the game, she would want to know about it (however in a whispered OOC setting.. I'll agree that just blurting it out in public doesn't help matters).

You may have the most brilliant and original RP concept, but if your spelling and/or grammar sucks badly, some people won't take the time to appreciate the RP. Sure they could be cheating themselves of a good RP experience, however if just having to try and read what you have to say is ruining their experience already then the RP grandeur is moot to them.

[Nieninque]

I think it's funny how people get upset with those who want a TEXT game to have correct spelling.

I'm sure if Nien were making constant, blatant mistakes in the game, she would want to know about it (however in a whispered OOC setting.. I'll agree that just blurting it out in public doesn't help matters).

You may have the most brilliant and original RP concept, but if your spelling and/or grammar sucks badly, some people won't take the time to appreciate the RP. Sure they could be cheating themselves of a good RP experience, however if just having to try and read what you have to say is ruining their experience already then the RP grandeur is moot to them.

Absolutely. There is a huge difference between someone constantly correcting every typo in the game out loud, and Someone pointing out discretely that someone's use of the English language, in a game that relies on the English language, is fucking shit.

Presentation is everything, so they say, so if you want to be taken seriously as a great roleplayer, make sure your language doesnt make people want to stab themselves in the eyes with a rusty spork.

Spelling mistakes in text, jump out at me, so it's really distracting to be spotting constant errors and poor language use when I am reading something (that doesnt mean I dont make mistakes, or feel the need to correct everyone all the time. Oh look, another apostrophe omitted).

[CrystalTears]

They make metal sporks? :D

[Martaigne]

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/spork2.jpg

And that is my contribution to this thread.

[Nieninque]

haha youre not the first person to say that about rusty sporks :P


Sporks can be made from plastic, metal, or wood. Plastic sporks are often disposable, but metal and wood sporks are meant to be cleaned and reused. Metals such as stainless steel, silver, lightweight aluminum and even the very lightweight (but costly) titanium, as well as "unbreakable" polycarbonate plastic have been used in spork manufacture.

From Wikipedia...the font of all spork knowledge.

[TheEschaton]

I had actually not considered a non-metal spork before.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/IM-IN-UR/grahmar.jpg

[Celephais]

From Wikipedia...the font of all spork knowledge.


Let me know when they make a spork out of bone...
Nobody messes with
http://www.wrestlingworld.it/Historical/Approfondimenti/wrestlingecomics/BonesawMcGrawSavage53.JPG
BOOOooOONESPORK!

[Dropped_In]

If someone thinks it is in-character to correct spelling, then go all in-character violent reaction.

"BUT UR VIOLENCE R OOC"
"NUH UH U R TRY CORRECT ME IN GAME"

[Celephais]

If someone thinks it is in-character to correct spelling, then go all in-character violent reaction.

"BUT UR VIOLENCE R OOC"
"NUH UH U R TRY CORRECT ME IN GAME"

... good idea, perpetuate the idiocy, instead of just ignoring them. Bonespork approves.

[Dropped_In]

You take yourself very seriously.

[Nieninque]

You miss the joke.

[Celephais]

You take yourself very seriously.

You're right, respect teh spork.

http://www.qwantz.com/fanart/DinoComicInternetSerious.png

[DarknessWithin]

Not that I don't have sympathy for people whose first language is not English, but it can get pretty fucking ridiculous at times. If you've ever talked to Foxs you know what I'm talking about. >>

See, i've dealt with Foxs (the Faendryl, right?). I had pretty good interactions. Perhaps her poor grasp of the english language shows itself more in prolonged conversations.

You were either extremely lucky or it wasn't really her. I've had numerous run ins in the past with her and to me it seems like she has moments of lucidity but those are far outnumbered by her...oddness. Case in point, I had been cornered by her and she would not stop "talking." I say "talking" because it was clearly evident she was copy and pasting HUGE chunks (I'm talking 5-9 lines of text) into everything she said from offical docs. When she wasn't doing that, she made no sense. Words out of order, misspelled, etc. I had actually walked away from the computer for a good 10-15 min and when I came back she was STILL talking. She had no idea I wasn't there. Yet other times she seems...normal.

On a different tangent, why are dark elves using "dhu" for "you"? It makes em sound like they had their tongue hacked off. Now...if they had their tongue cut off sure...I'd buy it.

[Fallen]

On a different tangent, why are dark elves using "dhu" for "you"? It makes em sound like they had their tongue hacked off. Now...if they had their tongue cut off sure...I'd buy it. >>

Pidgeon speak. It is Dhe'nar-si. It is like when characters ha' ta tal' like tha'

[Fallen]

It took me a while to realize that accents are best left to one's imagination, not actually used IG. They are eventually going to develop an accent mechanic to accompany speech, and I will simply make use of that.

I Rp'd Evarin taking the time to rid himself of the accent. Right after his brush with your Zealot and one of those Nalfeins who aren't playing anymore.

[Khariz]

On a different tangent, why are dark elves using "dhu" for "you"? It makes em sound like they had their tongue hacked off. Now...if they had their tongue cut off sure...I'd buy it. >>

Pidgeon speak. It is Dhe'nar-si. It is like when characters ha' ta tal' like tha'

I've found a dark elf in game who speaks in Forgotten Realms Drow. That drives me up the fucking wall.

[Fallen]

I've found a dark elf in game who speaks in Forgotten Realms Drow. That drives me up the fucking wall. >>

That may be reportable, as it is not just gibberish made up for GS, but an official language of sorts. Not sure.

[Nieninque]

You would report someone for that?

[Fallen]

Me personally? It would depend. It seems to be bothering this person. If someone's rulebreaking is affecting one's ability to enjoy the game, then they should Assist/Report.

[Asha]

I'd report anyone for speaking OOG or OOC if they continued to do it in public for long.
Wouldn't Drow be included in those categories?

[Khariz]

The thing is, I didn't know it was drow until I started looking up the words on the internet. I thought it was made up gibberish for a while.

It doesn't really *bother* me, more like makes me cringe.

[Fallen]

Like I said, that would be a GM's call to make.

[Nieninque]

what's drow?

Nevermind, I looked it up.

It makes as much sense to me as the shit the Dark Elfs speak to each other in GS. Reporting for that is retarded, but then maybe I'm too used to being able to ignore and avoid someone.

/shrug

[Asha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drow

[Nieninque]

saw it and edited my post

[Asha]

Huh? Drow is obviously not specificly GS like the recognised Delf accents and slangs which are.
Unless I've missunderstood you Nieninque, I'd definately see the difference between them. And one of them deserves reporting.

[Nieninque]

I could never understand half the people who used accents and variations on language in GS...including the Dark Elfs, and the halflings who had some kind of speech impediment (Tallybelle? I could never understand a word she said...Snowy just used to look at her wierd). Drow to me would be no different. If someone took the time to learn all that shit and could get people to understand them when they are talking it, I dont see how that detracts from anyone elses enjoyment any more than someone adding "ths" to the end of every word.

Anyway, why are you up at this time of day?

[Asha]

Fair enough.
And I've been up since 3 for some reason and I know I'd never sleep again before work.
Why are you heh. I was thinking the same thing about you and Stray.

[Nieninque]

I forgot to go to bed

[Latrinsorm]

Would you be ok with someone speaking German in GS, Nien? (How the heck do you forget to go to bed? Do we need to do an insomnia intervention for you or something?)

[Methais]

My biggest Pet Peeve is when people correct me on my spelling IG.

ex.

thier - there
its- it's
didnt - didn't
ect. ect.

Its stupid as hell to correct it because they sound the same as if you were talking so to correct it is toatly OOC. So people should stop effing doing it casue It's driving me crazy.

My biggest pet peeve is when people don't know how to spell, and take offense to corrections.

[Asha]

My biggest pet peev is when methais doesnt use hillarious pictures to make his point.
Doo eeet.

[Methais]

Right, sorry. My biggest pet peeve is when people don't use this when they need one.

http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/Albion/Annotations/Albion5/speak-n-spell.jpg

[Asha]

Methais.. wins. :)

[Methais]

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/awinnerisyou-37081.jpg

[Nieninque]

Would you be ok with someone speaking German in GS, Nien? (How the heck do you forget to go to bed? Do we need to do an insomnia intervention for you or something?)

I would have more chance at understanding someone speaking german than someone speaking denarsi or however you say it.

[Fallen]

I would have more chance at understanding someone speaking german than someone speaking denarsi or however you say it. >>

It is completely out of genre. As is any form of Drow, or Klingon. Even having an accent in a foreign language is against the rules. Obviously, having an medieval or intirely unique accent is permitted.

Your human character doesn't know elvish when it is spoken around them, nor would my Dhe'nar understand Sylvan, or Teheri (Both player made languages). That doesn't make it against TOS. Speaking in spanish, or italian (Beyond what words are common place in our language) is.

[Nieninque]

Yeah I get it...and I am reminded of how GS lost it's appeal.

QQ

[Fallen]

I agree. Not being able to speak in French is likely what keeps the masses away.

[Nieninque]

Because that's so what I was talking about.

GG

[CrystalTears]

Just funny that people are able to create a whole new language that no one understands, but use another language that is known in the game and it's OOC. It's very bizarre.

Personally I hated the alternate Dhe'nar language.

[Khariz]

\Even having an accent in a foreign language is against the rules.


THe one thing I never understoof about this was: Warrior's guild NPC guildmasters. Witt, anyone?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Your human character doesn't know elvish when it is spoken around them, nor would my Dhe'nar understand Sylvan, or Teheri (Both player made languages).>>

Speaking not English while in Common mode is super OOC no matter what, actually.

[Latrinsorm]

Just funny that people are able to create a whole new language that no one understands, but use another language that is known in the game and it's OOC. It's very bizarre.The language isn't known in the game, that's the whole point. The language is known by the players, who are outside the game. There are neither Drow nor Ger-men in Elanthia: it is therefore Out of Character to speak in Drow or German.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah there was missing punctuation there. "Use another language that is known, in the game" meaning that it's a known language by the players, yes. However considering how many things in the game are OOG or whatnot, I wouldn't report someone speaking Drow or German.

[Fallen]

Just funny that people are able to create a whole new language that no one understands, but use another language that is known in the game and it's OOC. It's very bizarre.

Personally I hated the alternate Dhe'nar language. >>

How is it out of character to come up with a language specifically designed for a race? Dhe'nar-si may be stupid, retarded, gay, etc but it certainly isn't OOC. Out of character is speaking french. And honestly, There were about 4-5 people that could speak Dhe'nar-si fluently, and I sure as shit wasn't one of them. I ain't that smart. Aside from a few token phrases, it isn't some widely used system.
As it stands now, there are 3 other player created languages that are used just as much, if not more than dhe'nar-si. There is nothing OOC about that at all. You may not like it, but it doesn't make it wrong.

As to the guildmaster thing in the Warrior guild, who knows? I have heard people talk about it on the officials but it never changes. Likely just grandfathered in.

Just to clarify, I understand you are saying you know it is NOT ooc to do so, I am just failing to understand why you think it is so bizzare. Someone is furthering roleplay specifically built and engineered for their character. They are not taking something that is completely developed, and completely out of genre in terms of context, and applying it to their character.

[Ignot]

Someone made up a language just for GS? and people became fluent in it?

.....MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That is the dorkiest thing ever.

[Fallen]

I think Dhe'nar-si was the most developed. Ingrak(sp) was a linguist who made it. There is also Krolgresh(?) which is the Krolvin language, Sylvans have a bit of a language, and Tehiri definitely has more than a few sentences worked out as well. There may be others, though those are the ones I know.

[Bobmuhthol]

Except the krolvin and troll languages are made by developers.

[Fallen]

Except the krolvin and troll languages are made by developers. >>

And Sylvan, Tehiri? If you want to count race languages, Ithzir are on board as well. Also, more than a few Dhe'nar characters became GMs, and had merchants and such who spoke fluent Dhe'nar-si. Good stuff, eh, Bob?

[Bobmuhthol]

Uh.

I don't know what the fuck Sylvan and Tehiri are, so I can't really comment. Sylvan is like, a game language, so uh.. I don't even understand how it can be made into a separate language since it already exists.

And just because some people are queer doesn't mean everyone is. GMs aren't exactly cool people, so that doesn't justify using Dhe'nar-ghey.

[Fallen]

Heh. Right on, Bobo.

There are several examples of elvish writing/speech being translated into common officially. Sylvankind was developed by the players of, so I am guessing you wont like that. Next up is Tehiri, The Tehir are a culture of the human race. They have their own language, and a TON of player created lore, likely as much if not more than the Dhe'nar.

[Fallen]

To get this thread back on topic, IG player created languages and accents are my RP pet peeve. Purposeful misspelling of words to mimic an accent makes me a sad panda.

[Methais]

Andraste is my RP pet peeve.

[Nieninque]

How is it out of character to come up with a language specifically designed for a race? Dhe'nar-si may be stupid, retarded, gay, etc but it certainly isn't OOC.

Because when it isnt one of the "in-crowd" it becomes OOC. Only when one of the little clique that the likes of you is a part of does it become something that is "Oh wow, I'm going to learn that" rather than "Oh goodness, I'm going to report that!"

[Fallen]

ecause when it isnt one of the "in-crowd" it becomes OOC. Only when one of the little clique that the likes of you is a part of does it become something that is "Oh wow, I'm going to learn that" rather than "Oh goodness, I'm going to report that!" >>

heh. That rant made no sense, but ok.

Let me explain for you again.

German = OOC
Dhe'nar-si = IC
Real world languages = OOC
Languages made specifically for Gemstone = Acceptable

You may think them retarded, lame, or whatever else, though that doesn't make it Out Of Character. You can even call it poor roleplay if you wish, but not OOC. As with anything player created Lore wise, a GM/NPC can instantly debunk all of your work by contradicting with a published document or a dismissal of your roleplay. That doesn't mean players should never attempt to improve upon their culture/race/deity or other such areas of interest. Languages included. I simply have grown to dislike them.

[CrystalTears]

As with anything player created Lore wise, a GM/NPC can instantly debunk all of your work by contradicting with a published document or a dismissal of your roleplay. That doesn't mean players should never attempt to improve upon their culture/race/deity or other such areas of interest. Languages included. I simply have grown to dislike them.
I hate to break this to you, but if the game programmers/developers decide that the language or culture improvement that the players created goes against what they planned for said culture, then sorry, it becomes OOC.

And personally, when I said I found it bizarre and that I didn't like Dhe'nar, is because players took it upon themselves to make it a "special" language like Nien stated. I'd rather people stick with the languages that are provided with the game. Work on improving your character rather than the cultures already provided and outlined.

[Nieninque]

Let me explain for you again.

German = OOC
Dhe'nar-si = OOC
Real world languages = OOC
Languages made specifically for Gemstone that are liked by the self-appointed great and good = Acceptable regardless of being OOC.

Fixed for you.

p.s. Is it so fucking difficult for you to use the quote tags, instead of <<?

[Khariz]

I hate to break this to you, but if the game programmers/developers decide that the language or culture improvement that the players created goes against what they planned for said culture, then sorry, it becomes OOC.



Erm...Did you think you were contradicting what he said? He said it's in character for a culture without a language/documentation to make up/flesh out their own culture/language when in game mechanics/documentation does not provide it for them. He then stated that "a GM/NPC can instantly debunk all of your work by contradicting with a published document or a dismissal of your roleplay", which means "If the language is later officially released, or something else occurs to make your player-created language/culture meaningless, it invalidates your effort", which is true.

You essentially just agreed with what he said under the guise of arguing with him.

And Nieninque, you didn't "fix" squat. If you play a race/culture combination that's officially available but has no official language or history, are you just supposed to act like you have no cultural language or cultural history? Hell no, you have to roleplay it out, that is, if you give a flying shit about roleplaying. If a group of like-cultured adventurers, all without official language and culture want to get together and roleplay a common background and language, that's not OOC unless and until such official language and documentation comes out. If it contradicts what they have been roleplaying, oh well.

I think Simu struck a good Balance with the Dhe'nar. They gave them their language in game (way after offering them as a culture), and gave them a background that explains their existance without completely raping the existence of the houses of the elves. There's no longer any reason for the Dhe'nar to go around speaking Dhe'narsi in common, as they have their own language. Before having their own language, they had no choice but to do this if they wanted to speak in their native tongue. Unless of course you would have had them use the act verb to speak in Dhe'narsi all along, which would have been retarded and have let everyone else see what they are saying.

Seriously though...people have creative license when they roleplay, that's what this game is all about.

[CrystalTears]

That doesn't mean players should never attempt to improve upon their culture/race/deity or other such areas of interest. Languages included.
That's what I was disagreeing with.

[Nieninque]

And Nieninque, you didn't "fix" squat. If you play a race/culture combination that's officially available but has no official language or history, are you just supposed to act like you have no cultural language or cultural history? Hell no, you have to roleplay it out, that is, if you give a flying shit about roleplaying. If a group of like-cultured adventurers, all without official language and culture want to get together and roleplay a common background and language, that's not OOC unless and until such official language and documentation comes out. If it contradicts what they have been roleplaying, oh well.

I fixed it completely.

If one of the RP Nazis like Fallen decides that what they are doing is RPing a genuine language/history for their character, it is OK. In addition, because they have their lips soutred to the rectal tissue of the GMs, they are more likely to get away with it and have it included.

If one of the RP Nazis like Fallen sees someone outside of their little clique doing something similar, the chances are they will follow a line of reasoning somewhat similar to "Avast, yon scoundrel is inventing languages that have nay place in these lands, I muste relay these tidings to my lordes and masters yon jee emmes."

[Fallen]

Hehe. Same old same old. You guys dont get, and apparently you never will. Even with the introduction of Dhe'nar-si as an official language, it didn't make the prior form of the language OOC. You keep throwing that acronym around, but it doesn't apply to anything but speaking german in game.

I know you dont like me, or the Dhe'nar, but that doesn't mean you have to sit there and try to argue something that is clearly incorrect until you're blue in the face. Name one language that people have created for gemstone that has been officially labled OOC. I will give you a BIIG hint. Dhe'nar-si isn't one of them.

[CrystalTears]

You keep missing the point that certain people creating a language for the game is apparently okay, but others introducing an already known language into the game is not. As far as I'm concerned either they're both okay or neither one is. Personally I'd rather people just use the languages that were provided. Not sure about Nien but that's my argument.

[Nieninque]

Hehe. Same old same old. You guys dont get, and apparently you never will. Even with the introduction of Dhe'nar-si as an official language, it didn't make the prior form of the language OOC. You keep throwing that acronym around, but it doesn't apply to anything but speaking german in game.

OK...sounds fair.


That may be reportable, as it is not just gibberish made up for GS, but an official language of sorts.

But it isnt German. Someone claims it is a language from another shitty game Simu run, and your first response was to report. This is the crux of the matter. If YOU made it up, it would be OK. If someone else did it, REPORT!


I know you dont like me, or the Dhe'nar, but that doesn't mean you have to sit there and try to argue something that is clearly incorrect until you're blue in the face.

Like you? Not especially.
Like the Dhe'nar? Couldn't give a toss. They are little pixies in a fantasy game. If you think your little made up world has any bearing on how stupid you sound when you try and justify your petty little tell-tales, you are even more deluded than I originally thought. Just be aware that people dont disagree with you because they dont like you. They usually disagree with you because you are talking shit.

[Celephais]

The fact is there is a mechanic in GS for languages. If your language doesn't exist within that mechanic, your language doesn't exist in the game*. If your culture doesn't have a mechanic supported language, then your culture doesn't have it's own language. It's one thing for you to come up with lore, that's fine, it's also fine for people to roleplay something there is no mechanic for. If there is a mechanic for something then it should be used (akin to when Toy was doing rogue gambits, that was OOC).

Edit: I shouldn't say it doesn't exist in game... more that it's OOC for your character to use the language.

[Fallen]

I give up on Nein. She is just arguing from some form of petty angst/anger and not any specific point. I think she just isn't ready for when life attacks.

<<You keep missing the point that certain people creating a language for the game is apparently okay, but others introducing an already known language into the game is not. As far as I'm concerned either they're both okay or neither one is. Personally I'd rather people just use the languages that were provided. Not sure about Nien but that's my argument. >>

For a long time, there was a severely limiting language system. I agree with you now, though, with the current system player made languages aren't exactly "needed". Once the Tehir get their own language and document, that will pretty much rule out the current need entirely.

I understand your opinion on the matter, and will agree with you that it is a grey area. I will ask on the boards and see what the stance is on whether characters making up a language or a culture is acceptable in the current form of Policy/TOS/etc. As it stands now, though, policy is policy. I dont agree with many aspects of it, but I do follow it, or accept the consequences for not doing so. I also grasp now that you understand the rules, you just don't like them.

[Fallen]

The fact is there is a mechanic in GS for languages. If your language doesn't exist within that mechanic, your language doesn't exist in the game. If your culture doesn't have a mechanic supported language, then your culture doesn't have it's own language. It's one thing for you to come up with lore, that's fine, it's also fine for people to roleplay something there is no mechanic for. If there is a mechanic for something then it should be used (akin to when Toy was doing rogue gambits, that was OOC). >>

It is a fine line to walk, like I said. Sometimes, it will lead to a GM or an NPC coming down and saying, "everything you are doing is wrong. Stop." OR, you can be allowed to exist in that grey area of policy where it is neither supported nor against the rules. There are many instances of this beyond the Dhe'nar. If something is done well long enough, it is usually accepted into the norm.

One issue that has come up on the boards is pregnancy. I personally do not LIKE pregnancy IG, but, do not think it specifically violates any area of policy. What I think DOES violate mechanics is playing your character at an age younger than the age mechanics allow. Specifially 0-19. The youngest you can properly set your age for is 20 in GS. It isn't so much an issue when you want to say your character is 18. It is when you RP that your character is 8.

There are, however, institutions such as daycares and schools one could viably roleplay that they send their children.

[Fallen]

Here is a perfect example of a GM stepping in when roleplay (or discussion of) goes so far as to need clarification/correction.

----
<<Yeah, but "immature" or "extremely young" can be selected as descriptors, without displaying a number at all. It's one of my favorite things about the age set-up. As far as I'm concerned, a person who appears to be "immature" by definition appears to look less than 18, in many cases less than 12. I still don't see the problem.>>

I'd just like to point out that 20 is the lowest age selectable and there are several good reasons for that. Playing anything younger than that is definitely not supported. The assumption from a GM is going to be that your character is an adult.

<<The mechanics are entirely irrelevant; the descriptors say it can happen.>>

No, the descriptors are to be taken in context. The assumption is all rolled up PC's are adults. So if you have a character who looks "extremely young" the intent isn't that they're 10 or 15 years old, but that they look young for their age.

I know people still ignore all this and do whatever they want. But I think it's important for people who are thinking about it to know what the game supports, both mechanically and in RP terms.

I like George R.R. Martin myself and I don't recall any scenes with one of the young Stark kids beating The Hound in a swordfight. I feel he's quite realistic in his portrayals and I don't recall anything from his Fire and Ice series that could be used as backup for playing children adventurers here. (Not that it would carry any weight since this is a different fantasy world anyway.)

<<When you're dealing with the mundane, it has to ring true.>>

This is an excellent observation. I don't mean in relation to this topic specifically, but for the game as a whole. Very well said!

<<In my experience (limited as it is), bad roleplayers have no idea that they're bad. <shrug> They don't seem to realize that far from enriching the experience for themselves and others, they're detracting from it a great deal. I could rant at length about this, but I'll stop before I'm compelled to name names.>>

This is very true that bad RPers don't know they are bad. I know this because I was one of them. <grin> I came here for the express purpose to RP, so I figured I was pretty dang good at it! Reading my old logs tells a very different story, however. Heh. It's a learning process for everyone. You can't spring forth as a full blown, talented RPer from the getgo. Even Lylia, one of my RP heroes, remembered doing some really weird stuff when she was a rat hunter.

Zyllah

[Skeeter]

If a linguist created that dhe'nar language they're a terrible linguist.

Also if you're speaking dhe'nar while your tag says common you're being horribly OOC because if your tag says common, you should be speaking common.

I know it's a tough concept to understand.

[Fallen]

If a linguist created that dhe'nar language they're a terrible linguist.

Also if you're speaking dhe'nar while your tag says common you're being horribly OOC because if your tag says common, you should be speaking common.

I know it's a tough concept to understand. >>

Yet it was done, by GMs, and a great many players across a great many cultures. I know it will be hard for you to understand, as it is a tough concept, but you aren't completely correct.

[Fallen]

You don't say when you speak aloud, Speaking in Common, Evarin says, "Blah."

It just says Evarin says, "Blah."

Obviously, when you are using a different language, you aren't speaking in Common.

:(

Sometimes using very odd verbs will produce effects on the screen completely different than what the verb indicates. Try using tinker by itself IG to have a better understanding of these types of situations.

[Nieninque]

You don't say when you speak aloud, Speaking in Common, Evarin says, "Blah."

It just says Evarin says, "Blah."

Obviously, when you are using a different language, you aren't speaking in Common.

:(

So on one hand you are saying that the mechanics of the game set what is and isnt OOC, and on the other hand you are saying you can bend the rules when it suits you?

[Fallen]

So on one hand you are saying that the mechanics of the game set what is and isnt OOC, and on the other hand you are saying you can bend the rules when it suits you? >

No, I am not. For further clarification, read previous posts.

[Nieninque]

I give up on Nein. She is just arguing from some form of petty angst/anger and not any specific point. I think she just isn't ready for when life attacks.

Boohoo...Nien wont play fair therefore I'm not playing.

[Fallen]

I'm sorry, Nien. Your leet arguing skills are just too much for me. I am PWNT.

[Xandalf]

So on one hand you are saying that the mechanics of the game set what is and isnt OOC, and on the other hand you are saying you can bend the rules when it suits you?

That's not what he's saying at all.

'Common' is anything you want that's not race/profession specific. I can jump in game and speak french or german in common. It wouldn't make much sense and IMHO would be OOC since there's no such thing as French People or German People in Elanthia.. but you could do it.

If you wanted to try to speak Krolvin in Common speech, then you ARE speaking the Krolvin language. Look at it more from a logical standpoint than a mechanics standpoint. Someone standing around speaking words... you can't SEE what their speaking, you can only HEAR it. Whether you hear gibberish in common or 'something you don't understand' in Dhe'nar-si, there is no difference to the character.

At the end of the day this discussion boils down to one simple concept:
Dhe'nar exist in Elanthia and therefore Dhe'nar-si is IC. French and Germans do not exist in Elanthia and therefore French and German is OOC.

[Nieninque]

So on one hand you are saying that the mechanics of the game set what is and isnt OOC, and on the other hand you are saying you can bend the rules when it suits you? >

No, I am not. For further clarification, read previous posts.

I am reading the previous posts.
You posted a discussion that a GM intervened in on the officials to show that the rules of what is and isnt OOC is set by the mechanics (in your example - age)

You then went on to say that, despite the fact that when people speak in common they are speaking in common, it is OK for you to be speaking something else...contrary to mechanics.

Personally, I could care less either way...but my point is that you dont apply that across the boards. You have an "us and them" attitude whereby if it is someone whose ideas you like, it becomes acceptable, whereas, if you dont take a fancy to the work they have done, you report it.

[Fallen]

WHO R U TO TELL US WHAT RULZ ARE, NAZI! STOP SEXORING GMs!

How did I do, Nien?

[CrystalTears]

But he will report you for speaking German! He can speak Dhe'har'pig'latin but you can't speak French! ZOMG REPORTED.

For a long time Dhe'nar was something that was player invented. For a long time it pissed people off that this elite group of self-righteous people were getting away with their own language that no one else could decipher unless you were part of the club. For a long time people were pissed off that the GMs sanctioned the whole thing. It's one of the things that started turning me off to GS.

[Nieninque]

WHO R U TO TELL US WHAT RULZ ARE, NAZI! STOP SEXORING GMs!

How did I do, Nien?

On a par with how you normally do.

[Fallen]

As I said, read above posts for further clarification. You could ask Xandalf to dumb it down further for you if that is required, but I would take that to U2U's as that might be a bit embarrassing.

[Nieninque]

But he will report you for speaking German! He can speak Dhe'har'pig'latin but you can't speak French! ZOMG REPORTED.

For a long time Dhe'nar was something that was player invented. For a long time it pissed people off that this elite group of self-righteous people were getting away with their own language that no one else could decipher unless you were part of the club. For a long time people were pissed off that the GMs sanctioned the whole thing. It's one of the things that started turning me off to GS.

Exactly.

If it's in with the 'in crowd' it's in.
If it's out with the 'in crowd' its reportable.

[Fallen]

But he will report you for speaking German! He can speak Dhe'har'pig'latin but you can't speak French! ZOMG REPORTED.

For a long time Dhe'nar was something that was player invented. For a long time it pissed people off that this elite group of self-righteous people were getting away with their own language that no one else could decipher unless you were part of the club. For a long time people were pissed off that the GMs sanctioned the whole thing. It's one of the things that started turning me off to GS. >>

Awesome. You are holding a grudge, and that's fine. It doesn't make what you are saying correct. For a long time, people could point to every Dhe'nar character they saw and say, "You are a very crazy Faendryl, and I pity you." And they would be correct, as the race didn't exist yet. However, them RPing that they are a race apart wasn't OOC. It just wasn't supported by the official documentation.

Personal insults aside, Nien/Crstaltears, you're wrong. I know you're jaded, but you're still wrong.

[Xandalf]

But he will report you for speaking German! He can speak Dhe'har'pig'latin but you can't speak French! ZOMG REPORTED.

For a long time Dhe'nar was something that was player invented. For a long time it pissed people off that this elite group of self-righteous people were getting away with their own language that no one else could decipher unless you were part of the club. For a long time people were pissed off that the GMs sanctioned the whole thing. It's one of the things that started turning me off to GS.

Like I said in my previois post - Dhe'nar exist in Elanthia and therefore Dhe'nar-si exists.

I'm yet to see a German homeland or a French quarter in a town, therefore French and German do not exist in Elanthia.

Despite what most people seem to think, knowing Dhe'nar-si does NOT make your character a Dhe'nar. I don't care if you spend years learning the language fluently. Knowing the langauge doesn't make the characters RP.

I can see why people speaking their own private language would be annoying to some people. Heck, Xand gets annoyed when people speak Sylvan in-game and he can't understand it. But THAT'S PART OF THE GAME! People speak different languages. The original Dhe'nari players RP was that they were a unique race coming from a unique location. Their history and lore was all carefully thought out and told openly to the public on many occasions. Of course they will have their own language to go along with that RP backstory.

And as a final side note - in the past ALL Dhe'nar-si was gibberish that was uttered from one player to another, after which the translations were whispered for the player's benefit. Only slowly has the staple of words/phrases/sentences grown. Few if any in the game today know more than I do and I certainly don't know nearly enough to hold a real conversation.

[TheEschaton]

how has this thread extended to now 145 posts?

[Skeeter]

I'm going to have to agree with the ladies, your whole argument boils down to, it's ok for me to break the set rules because xyz.

It's not ok for you to break the same rules because abc.

or to dumb it down for you. IR LEET GOTZ GM FRINDZORZ U R NOT LEET UR TEH SUCK NO FAKE WURDS 4 U

[Nieninque]

But he will report you for speaking German! He can speak Dhe'har'pig'latin but you can't speak French! ZOMG REPORTED.

For a long time Dhe'nar was something that was player invented. For a long time it pissed people off that this elite group of self-righteous people were getting away with their own language that no one else could decipher unless you were part of the club. For a long time people were pissed off that the GMs sanctioned the whole thing. It's one of the things that started turning me off to GS. >>

Awesome, Nien.

That was CT. Keep up Einstein.


You are holding a grudge, and that's fine. It doesn't make what you are saying correct.

Of course not! Anyone who disagrees with the great Evarin clearly holds some kind of personal grudge and therefore is automatically incorrect.


For a long time, people could point to every Dhe'nar character they saw and say, "You are a very crazy Faendryl, and I pity you." And they would be correct, as the race didn't exist yet. However, them RPing that they are a race apart wasn't OOC. It just wasn't supported by the official documentation.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt that make it OOC? The fact that you managed to suck up to some GM's who decided to run with your idea doesnt make it any more IC than the guy who wanted to start a dragon hunting PRO. Both are OOC because they are not supported by the mechanics nor the lore of the game.

Kudos for changing things, but that only goes to emphasis the point I have been making all along.


Personal insults aside, Nien, you're wrong. I know you're jaded, but you're still wrong.

It's good that you decided to leave the personal insults aside. It clashes with your vain pseudo-intellectual arguments.

[Xandalf]

I'm going to have to agree with the ladies, your whole argument boils down to, it's ok for me to break the set rules because xyz.

It's not ok for you to break the same rules because abc.

or to dumb it down for you. IR LEET GOTZ GM FRINDZORZ U R NOT LEET UR TEH SUCK NO FAKE WURDS 4 U


What rules are being broken, exactly?

[CrystalTears]

Why can't there be a French speaking area somewhere that you haven't discovered yet? Lots of people make up geography to explain where they come from and that seems to be alright with everyone. Why is it OOC/OOG to assume that perhaps there are places that speak languages that our known towns don't know about? It's like speaking to people in Pleasantville.

All I'm saying is, despite the fact that I didn't agree with the Dhe'nar concept (no I'm not bitter or holding a grudge, that's hilarious, btw) is that it's presumptuous to say that creating a whole new language is okay but bringing in one is wrong and reportable. Had the "report" never exited your fingertips, this conversation probably would have ended ages ago.

[Nieninque]

Keep up Xan.

The RP god himself has admitted that when he and his band of merry nerds started playing Dhe'nars they were not part of the game. They were able to intellectualise their existence and convince some GMs to run with their idea thereby making it part of the game.

On the other hand, they also say that if anyone else does anything similar, that people shold report them because it is OOC as it is not an official part of the game.

See now?

[Nieninque]

Had the "report" never exited your fingertips, this conversation probably would have ended ages ago.

QFMFT

[Xandalf]

Why can't there be a French speaking area somewhere that you haven't discovered yet? Lots of people make up geography to explain where they come from and that seems to be alright with everyone. Why is it OOC/OOG to assume that perhaps there are places that speak languages that our known towns don't know about? It's like speaking to people in Pleasantville.

All I'm saying is, despite the fact that I didn't agree with the Dhe'nar concept (no I'm not bitter or holding a grudge, that's hilarious, btw) is that it's presumptuous to say that creating a whole new language is okay but bringing in one is wrong and reportable. Had the "report" never exited your fingertips, this conversation probably would have ended ages ago.

There could be. The day that a character comes waltzing into the Landing with a backstory and some real information on where they came from and their language from their homeland is FRENCH, my character would accept it with very little hesitation. It wouldn't make any sense to ME the player since I of course know that French doesn't exist in Elanthia but Xand would accept it and be generally apathetic to it.

But random characters walking around speaking French = OOC. It just doesn't exist in Elanthia.

[CrystalTears]

I also find it awesome that someone who chooses Dhe'nar as their culture, and speaks Dhe'nar doesn't make them Dhe'nar. That's just fucking fascinating.

[Skeeter]

I can't remember how the dhe'nar thing started. I don't remember if there was already a race identified in doctrine or if it was completely made up subset of the delfs.

regardless we'll assume it existed and wasn't fleshed out. So pick a race that has subsets we'll say those ridiculous little fairy things that helped ruin GS. We'll quickly flesh out their history and say that one subset that was kept under oppression started their own sub-set and dialogue.

We'll say they called themselves teh frogs as a matter of solidarity. Since they needed a way to communicate without being caught they created their own language. It just happens that this language is French. Since France doesn't exist in game it's just as viable as a made up language as dhe'nar.

I get about 15 of my friends to roll up bugs call themselves frogs and we speak french to each other. by your standards we are 1337 roleplayers, yet it's likely we'll be reported constantly and a gm will come down and make us stop.

Now say one of my friends in my original group of 15 happens to be oh we'll say Khaladan just to throw a name out there. Now we have acceptace from the GMs and he'll bring other GMs on board and all the ass lickers will want to join our group because they want to suck up to a GM when they get the chance.

So we go from being horribly OOC to being IC just because a GM showed poor judgement. Sounds just like Dhe'nar to me.

[Xandalf]

I also find it awesome that someone who chooses Dhe'nar as their culture, and speaks Dhe'nar doesn't make them Dhe'nar. That's just fucking fascinating.

Not to my character. Not at all. Not even slightly.

Please explain to me how my character would possible 'know' that charcter XXX is a Dhe'nar. He doesn't walk around with a sign on him that says 'I R DEE'NUR'. (Thankfully). It's rather assanine to assume that my character knows what race someone clicked on when they started a character. If you don't look/act/speak/smell/taste like a Dhe'nar, why would he assume that you are?

The Obsidian Tower has a series of methods to 'prove' that a character is a Dhe'nar. These would be the only methods that my character would accept to prove that someone is a Dhe'nar.

[Nieninque]

LOL

[CrystalTears]

Heh, yeah, thanks for explaining why I couldn't stand Dhe'nar then and now.

[Xandalf]

We'll say they called themselves teh frogs as a matter of solidarity. Since they needed a way to communicate without being caught they created their own language. It just happens that this language is French. Since France doesn't exist in game it's just as viable as a made up language as dhe'nar.

I get about 15 of my friends to roll up bugs call themselves frogs and we speak french to each other. by your standards we are 1337 roleplayers, yet it's likely we'll be reported constantly and a gm will come down and make us stop.

Now say one of my friends in my original group of 15 happens to be oh we'll say Khaladan just to throw a name out there. Now we have acceptace from the GMs and he'll bring other GMs on board and all the ass lickers will want to join our group because they want to suck up to a GM when they get the chance.

So we go from being horribly OOC to being IC just because a GM showed poor judgement. Sounds just like Dhe'nar to me.


This is a joke, right? Maybe you missed the part where I said that I don't care if your character can speak Dhe'nar-si. That little to no effect on your RP as a whole.

[Xandalf]

Heh, yeah, thanks for explaining why I couldn't stand Dhe'nar then and now.

Happy to be of assistance.

[Fallen]

Heh. Fuel to the fire, Xandalf.

Speaking French/German whatever else IG is wrong because the GMs say it is wrong.

Speaking Dhe'nar-si, or some newly created gnomish cultural language in game is not wrong until a GM says it is.

If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. I didn't make them up, and I have no power beyond bringing someone violating the rules of the game to a GM's attention.

Beyond that, I haven't anything more to say on the issue of languages unless someone makes a statement beyond what is already known as wrong by the guidelines of TOS/Policy/ETC.

----
On the Dhe'nar. Tower Dhe'nar are not the "real" Dhe'nar of gemstone. Even before the culture was accepted, they were not the "real" Dhe'nar of gemstone, as a GM could have just as easily stepped in and said what you are doing is wrong. Stop.

You can roleplay your Dhe'nar any way you want. You can totally contradict the Official documentation and call yourself a Dhe'nar. You slapped on the cultural label, this makes you a Dhe'nar. Period. That is the rules. I didn't make them, and I think they were poorly implimented, but they are the rules all the same. We all must follow them.

Our characters can think whatever they wish, however. It is not against policy for my character to doubt the legitimacy of your charater's claim to be First born. If he was doing so while speaking french...It would be.

Simple.

[Celephais]

If you don't look/act/speak/smell/taste like a Dhe'nar, why would he assume that you are?

I agree, it's like the whole seeing someone's profession just by looking at them, how exactly did I look at you and glean the fact you can cast massies?

What with certain cultures (Burgal gnome one, I forget) being able to fake their culture, I think that it's perfectly reasonable IG to not trust someone's culture listed. If they selected it when they started they ARE dhe'nar, but being a culture doesn't mean you act/are treated like that culture.

... and nien your debating skills are terrible, and fallen LTQuote.

[Fallen]

I'm going to have to agree with the ladies, your whole argument boils down to, it's ok for me to break the set rules because xyz.

It's not ok for you to break the same rules because abc. >>

Skeeter, you are, as far as I am aware, allowed to make up any language you please, any culture or race you please and roleplay it to your heart's content.

There are instances where you cannot. Bringing Established languages into the game (drow, Italian, pig-latin, etc) is one of them. I believe it is within TOS to roleplay something that is completely false. Such as your halfling saying he is a Kobold. It is not against the rules to do so, all it means is it isn't true.

If GMs were to decide that halfling Kobolds are infact a good idea, and make it official, no player could call into question your roleplay. Characters still could all they wished, though they would be in the wrong.

I know people like to harp on the Dhe'nar, and with good reason. However, people making up entirely new cultures is nothing new, and has gone on and CONTINUES to go on to this day. They make up their own languages, which is allowed, as long as it is not an already established language. Until the day their culture/RP becomes officially adopted by GS, it is just that. Not official. Once a GM PERSONALLY decides your roleplay is OOC/OOG/incorrect, that is when it can be labeled as such.

Not when I do it, not when another player does it. When a GM has done it. They have made such a decision when it comes to bringing RL languages into the game. They have NOT made that decision about making up your own language.

[Asha]

To save me reading this whole thread of back and forths, could someone possibly tell me the difference between someone speaking Dhe'nar'si after typing ''speak Dhe'nar'' and someone speaking Dhe'nar'si after typing ''speak common''?

If your non Delf counterparts could have understood the ''Speak Dhe'nar'si'' language.. then the speaking of it in ''Common'' would no longer be needed.
So yeah, what's the difference again?

[Skeeter]

so people should've reported the dhe'nar every chance they got until the GMs made it official? <maybe they did, I don't know>

You and your ilk of all people should be even more lenient to someone else making things up on the fly since your group did this. Seems like it would be more consistent for you to support someone speaking French IG.

French doesn't exist in game I am aware of that, so by that logic for it to be spoken in Elanthia it equals a made up language same as dhe'nar.

Now this part isn't an argument towards fallen or xandalf but saying it's ok to make up a pretend language that doesn't exist ig is ok but using a language that is already established isnt is well, hypocritical. They're both made up languages as far as Elanthia is concerned.

back to you obsidan tower people, perhaps you should go out of your way to support someone who is rping something completely pulled out of their ass <like dragon pro guy> since that's how the obsidian tower was started. Unless of course you feel only you and your friends can add depth and richness to the game.

[Tolwynn]

Speaking drow is against the rules, but acting like warmed-over imitations of them isn't. In fact, the latter was acceptable enough to get made part of the Elanthian mythos, no less.

That's one of my biggest peeves, that the official cultures/races/religions are still to this day woefully underdeveloped, despite their utter pervasiveness in the game world.

Instead we get more shiny new things slapped on: rehashed drow, bondage fairies (and why a second slave race was so desperately needed when there's already sylvans, I'll never know), and strangers from the mysterious Far East because people had such a hardon for katanas.

[Fallen]

so people should've reported the dhe'nar every chance they got until the GMs made it official? <maybe they did, I don't know>

Perhaps. In my mind there are two types of wrong in Gemstone:

Technically wrong: You are technically in the wrong to claim you are something that does not exist in the official documentation of the game. Until the point that GMs decide to label your roleplay as completely OOC/OOG you are free to engage in it, but it can be denounced in every which way possible.

Absolutely wrong: Speaking in french or German, or claiming your character is from mexico is completely wrong. Doing so is implicitly against the rules, and you will be corrected upon it to the point of being told to stop by the GMs.

The Dhe'nar, up to the moment they were inducted as an official culture were technically wrong. It wasn't absolutely wrong to claim you were one, but it was not supported in any way.

<<<Instead we get more shiny new things slapped on: rehashed drow, bondage fairies (and why a second slave race was so desperately needed when there's already sylvans, I'll never know), and strangers from the mysterious Far East because people had such a hardon for katanas. >>> - Tolwynn

Fair enough, Tolwynn. I can understand people's dislike of the culture for various reasons, but it is still official. I personally think all of the new races except for the Half-krol were a wasted opportunity.

[Nieninque]

Technically wrong: You are technically in the wrong to claim you are something that does not exist in the official documentation of the game. Until the point that GMs decide to label your roleplay as completely OOC/OOG you are free to engage in it, but it can be denounced in every which way possible.

Oh gimme a break. Are you telling me that if you start a PRO called the New York Jets and invented a sport that involved projecting an odd shaped ball around a field with the hand and called it football, that it would be OK to do so, until the point that a GM intervened?

[Celephais]

Obviously there are restrictions Nien, you're completely missing his point to try to "win". Do you honestly think he was encouraging something like that?

I'm starting to agree that if it's something "reasonable" but there exists no mechanic, it's okay to do the best you can, as that's about the only way to influence GMs to one day implement it.

Although.. I do see the negative implications...
>Impregnate Turboslut
You have offered to impregnate Turboslut, she has 30 seconds to accept or deny your offer.

Somedude has offered to impregnate you, type PREGO CONFIRM in the next 30 seconds to ruin your life.
>Prego Confirm
You are already knocked up, Somedude doesn't know it though, so you can pretend it worked.
>inc 405
You detect a fetus is currently tempering in your womb, and is a project of Alfster's.
>Get hanger
You remove a rusty hanger from your backpack.
>turn hanger
You push the hanger inside you and pull out the offending fetus
>'try again.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Oh gimme a break. Are you telling me that if you start a PRO called the New York Jets and invented a sport that involved projecting an odd shaped ball around a field with the hand and called it football, that it would be OK to do so, until the point that a GM intervened?

Is this considered "GM intervention"? POLICY 2:

GemStone IV is a Role-playing Game. This means that players interact in the world playing the part of their characters in a medieval fantasy environment. This is known as "in character" (IC) and means that the player is acting out the part believably. The term "out of character" (OOC) means that the player is behaving inconsistently with their character's situation in the game (such as discussing the latest sports event, singing the latest music release, playing the part of a starship captain, or communicating in French, Swahili or any earthly language other than English (Elanthia's Common tongue).

While it doesn't mention something like the Jets specfically, I think it's pretty close to it.

[Nieninque]

OK, the name maybe a little off, but there are suggestions that games similar to football were established back as far as 400BC. That should cover the medieval part.

That in fact has more basis within the confines of the game than the originators of the Dhe'nar lore did.

[Khariz]

At the end of the day this discussion boils down to one simple concept:
Dhe'nar exist in Elanthia and therefore Dhe'nar-si is IC. French and Germans do not exist in Elanthia and therefore French and German is OOC.

That's what I was trying to say in my previous post. If a culture is allowed to exist without a language, I find it wholly acceptable that the culture comes up with its own language. Especially until such language is put in with mechanics.

Dhe'nar-si is MUCH different than German or French.

[Celephais]

OK, the name maybe a little off, but there are suggestions that games similar to football were established back as far as 400BC. That should cover the medieval part.

You're aware that real history timeline != GS history timeline. That said someone making a game that might resemble it is walking a thin line, but if the name of your PRO were "The Giants", I imagine it's perfectly acceptable... nothing out of genre or out of character. So long as you make no references to New York or to football.

[Fallen]

Oh gimme a break. Are you telling me that if you start a PRO called the New York Jets and invented a sport that involved projecting an odd shaped ball around a field with the hand and called it football, that it would be OK to do so, until the point that a GM intervened?

With a few tweaks, I think that yes, a sports oriented PRO would be within the rules of the game. If you could prove that the sport is in Genre, and adjust it to fit well enough into Elanthian standards, it could fly.

I wouldn't join, though.

[CrystalTears]

OK, the name maybe a little off, but there are suggestions that games similar to football were established back as far as 400BC. That should cover the medieval part.

That in fact has more basis within the confines of the game than the originators of the Dhe'nar lore did.
Playing the game is fine, as long as you don't yell positions or numbers in German. :D

[Tolwynn]

If modern skating pavillions, cruise ships, sunglasses and slot machines (among many, many other things) are ig enough to meet Elanthian standards, I can't imagine how a sport or game couldn't be made to fit.

[Celephais]

Playing the game is fine, as long as you don't yell positions or numbers in German. :D

German(ia) also happened to exist back in midieval times, anything earth specific is out of genre until it's introduced officially. (For all we know there is no such thing as being pregnant in GS! ... unless the father is a moullis(sp))

[Latrinsorm]

I'd rather people stick with the languages that are provided with the game. Work on improving your character rather than the cultures already provided and outlined.Trying to divorce players from creative input on the game itself is a really terrible idea. If anything we should be encouraging a decreased division between GM and player authority.
You keep missing the point that certain people creating a language for the game is apparently okay, but others introducing an already known language into the game is not.This is actually different from what you said before when I pointed out why this point doesn't make any sense. To review, you added "However considering how many things in the game are OOG or whatnot, I wouldn't report someone speaking Drow or German." Though I don't think that's a fantastic course of action, it at least makes sense. What you said later just doesn't cohere for the reasons we've already agreed upon.
For a long time it pissed people off that this elite group of self-righteous people were getting away with their own language that no one else could decipher unless you were part of the club.Honestly, you couldn't be bothered to google it? :\
Heh, yeah, thanks for explaining why I couldn't stand Dhe'nar then and now.I was fortunate to meet a pleasant gal from South Africa last semester. I couldn't tell by looking at her she was from South Africa, and I humbly submit that you wouldn't have been able to either. Why should our characters be particularly more insightful?
I fixed it completely.
They're both made up languages as far as Elanthia is concerned.I don't see your reasoning. Dhe'nar-si was created ex nihilo specifically for IC use, how can it be any more OOC than an altered gown? Certainly the process of creating a new language or getting an alter is OOC, but that doesn't flow down into the result. More on this later.
The fact is there is a mechanic in GS for languages. This is the best argument that can be made against Dhe'nar-si (and its ilk), but it's still flawed, and here's why: mechanics establish what the genre is and how the world works (for instance, there are no adventurers under 20). Mechanics in no way describe what is in or out of character, and this is a very important distinction to make. An examination of intent is the only way to establish that. For instance, a character who claims to have wandered into an obscure, out of the way merchant cannot be shown to have used OOC knowledge without testimony (specifically, of the person who told them about it). People lie though, so we're often reduced to an examination of plausibility. A character can claim that they personally invented a language that happens to coincide exactly with Drow (or French), but that's just not plausible.

Similarly, that Toy was doing cartwheels is not OOC by any stretch. That Toy was doing cartwheels with the exact same messaging as Rogue Gambits smacks heavily of OOC.

[CrystalTears]

Trying to divorce players from creative input on the game itself is a really terrible idea. If anything we should be encouraging a decreased division between GM and player authority.
If Gemstone were a free form game, I would agree with you. However it's not. The GMs, whether we feel they are a good thing or not, still have authority of this game that we as players can't control.

I have no idea what you're getting at with the rest of it, but basically, for me, my opinion, is that saying that creating another language is okay yet incorporating a player known language is hypocritical. If there is a good roleplaying reason for speaking French or German, why can't it be done without some precious Dhe'nar reporting it and saying nu uh, you can't do that?


Honestly, you couldn't be bothered to google it? :\
If I remember correctly, for quite a long time the language wasn't posted publicly for not wanting just anyone seeing it, so no, it was not available through Google.


I was fortunate to meet a pleasant gal from South Africa last semester. I couldn't tell by looking at her she was from South Africa, and I humbly submit that you wouldn't have been able to either. Why should our characters be particularly more insightful?
I'm not saying that someone should just see someone else and immediately know where they were from. What I find fault with is someone who sees someone look rather Dhe'nar-ish, speak Dhe'nar, but assumes they are not simply because they don't follow some Tower code. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Jolena]

I think what people are not seeing is that T.O.S. doesn't support the use of languages already established on earth. Making up an entirely new language for the use of a character is something that may or may not get implimented into the game, but it would depend on how well it is used, how long the people involved stick to it, and I would assume, how many people used the made-up language.

While, yes, someone who came to the Landing and said "I hail from this place far, far away that noone has ever heard of, and this is how we roll yo" would be fine and within T.O.S, if that same person ALSO spoke in a language already developed and established on earth, then it would be OOC.

The difference is quite simple - languages already associated, established, and spoken on Earth = OOC. Languages made up for the game that are not associated, established or spoken on Earth = OK and might even get integrated into the game at some point if you work hard enough on it and enough people use it well.

[Latrinsorm]

If Gemstone were a free form game, I would agree with you. However it's not. The GMs, whether we feel they are a good thing or not, still have authority of this game that we as players can't control.You have suggested a false dichotomy. There's plenty of middle ground between free form and dictatorial GM control, and as in most things we should shoot for the middle.
What I find fault with is someone who sees someone look rather Dhe'nar-ish, speak Dhe'narI'm reminded of that NAACP guy claiming Donovan McNabb didn't play QB like a black man. How exactly does one "look rather Dhe'nar-ish"? If I were to let some German rip, would you assume I was German or would you assume that I spoke German?

Google indicates that Dhe'nar-si has been available online for at least 3 years. I remember at least two other sites that have since gone down that also had information.
I have no idea what you're getting at with the rest of it, but basically, for me, my opinion, is that saying that creating another language is okay yet incorporating a player known language is hypocritical. If there is a good roleplaying reason for speaking French or German, why can't it be done without some precious Dhe'nar reporting it and saying nu uh, you can't do that?Because, once again, you're conflating IC and OOC. Dhe'nar-si and French were both created by people. French was created by people for people, whereas Dhe'nar-si was created by people for characters. A player can similarly claim to create a language that is exactly identical with French (a la Skeeter and his peculiar distaste for Aelotoi), but this is implausible, as described in the last post.

[Jolena]

Also, someone mentioned earlier that if someone played a character that said they came from a city/region that didn't actually exist in Elanthia (per Gemstone documentation), that their character would not know better and would be apathetic towards it but as a player they would consider it wrong. (I think it was Xandalf, but not positive). To this, I ask why?

Many areas of Elanthia have still not been explored or uncovered. That includes in documentation. I don't think for one second that there are not new areas being 'discovered' or 'mapped' in that little world, and it lends proof to that by all the new 'hunting areas' discovered over the years. So then, why is it not feasible for a character to come from a city that is not known? What if that character had several friends with him that were also from that area? Would you as a player then consider it okay? After all, that is similar to what has happened with Dhe'nar, is it not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not among the bitter who think that Dhe'nar or Dhe'nar'si was a bad idea for the game. I think that those additions, including Aelotoi, half-krolvin, and gnomes were great ways to expand the IC fantasy world of Gemstone. I also think its hot fucking damn cool that players can put such time and effort into creating their own language and cultural background (ie, they didn't copy it from a language and culture already existing on earth) and perhaps someday see it come to life and be supported in Elanthia. It doesn't happen often, and that's a shame, but its always cool when it does happen, I think.

Anyhow, I'm interested in your answer, Xand.

[CrystalTears]

Interesting that I haven't played Gemstone in almost 3 years. The Dhe'nar language was established long before I quit. I guess that means you justified what I said about not being able to Google it. Thanks.

[Xandalf]

Also, someone mentioned earlier that if someone played a character that said they came from a city/region that didn't actually exist in Elanthia (per Gemstone documentation), that their character would not know better and would be apathetic towards it but as a player they would consider it wrong. (I think it was Xandalf, but not positive). To this, I ask why?

Anyhow, I'm interested in your answer, Xand.

If a character came into Illistim claiming to be born in the far away land of France, I would very much consider that to be wrong, while Xand wouldn't care either way.

France does not and never will exist in Elanthia, I think we can all agree pretty clearly on that. I don't see it as an overly difficult concept to grasp, assuming you read the whole thread (I assume you did. You're usually on top of your shit Jol). France doesn't exist in Elanthia. There are no French people, and thus no French language. The example I used was specific only to locations in the world like France and Germany. If a random character walked up to Xand and claimed he was a Groph, a new race of Sylvans from the forests of Angband (I dunno, whatever), then I as a player would have no problem with that. See the distinction?

See Latrinsorm's posts for more detail. He summed it up pretty well.

[CrystalTears]

I don't think she means France specifically, just a city/country/region that current GS geography doesn't show or know about.

[Jolena]

My apologies for not being more specific in my post. Yes, I read the whole thread, and my question was about player characters who arrive and say they are from a region/city that they created themselves, not one that exists on earth but not in Elanthia (for example Angband instead of France). I misunderstood your post, and thought you were saying that if a character came to you with a player created (not france, or some other country that already exists on earth) region/city that you as a player would think it was wrong. MY BAD G.

[Methais]

What if someone rolled a character and said:

I WAS SENT IN A CAPSULE FROM A PLACE LONG FROM HERE
AND I CAME HERE FOR ONE REASON -- TO ATTACK, AND KEEP COMING
NOT TO ASK, BUT JUST TO GIVE
NOT TO WANT, BUT JUST TO SEE SEEING THE POWER OF THE WARRIORS TIL THEY BECOME SICK OF IT
WELL YOU'RE GONNA GET SICK OF IT, BECAUSE THIS FREAK OF NATURE RIGHT HERE IS JUST BEGINNING TO SWELL, AND WHEN I GET BIG ENOUGH BROTHER, THERE AIN'T GONNA BE ROOM FOR ANYBODY ELSE BUT ME AND ALL THE WARRIORS, FLOATIN' THROUGH THE VEINS, AND THE POWER OF THE WARRIORRRRRS!!!!!!!!!

I LOOK ABOVE TO THE GODS, AND WHEN YOU FALL OUT BELOW THE SKELETONS OF THE WARRIOR'S, PAST, THE POWER OF THE WARRIORS WILL BECOME THE 8TH WONDER OF THE WORRRRRRRLD!!!!!!!!!!!

NORMAL PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE THAT WALK THE STREETS EVERYDAY, WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND!!!!

THE FAMILY THAT I LIVE FOR, ONLY BREATHES THE AIR THAT SMELLS OF COMBAT
WITH OR WITHOUT THE FACE PAINT, I AM THE ULTIMATE WARRIORRR!!!!!!11

HOW MUST I PREPARE, YOU MUST ASK YOURSELF.
SHOULD I JUMP OFF THE TALLEST BUILDING IN THE WORLD? SHOULD I LAY IN THE LAWN AND LET THEM RUN OVER ME WITH LAWNMOWERS?SHOULD I GO TO AFRICA AND LET THEM TRAMPLE ME WITH RAAAAGGGGING ELEPHANTS?

IN MY FINAL MEETING WITH THE GODS FROM THE HEAVENS ABOVE, AS THEY SPOKE TO ME AND HIT ME WITH THE POWER OF THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR, THEY TOLD ME EXIT STAGE RIGHT! EXIT STAGE LEFT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN -- ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNT OUT!!!!

AAAAAGGGGAAAAGGGGGGGGAAAHHHH YOU CAN FEEL IT DUDE!!! YOU CAN FEEL IT!!
CARRY THE SPACESHIP AS FAR AS IT WANTS TO GO
AAAAAGGGHHHH THE HEAVENS HAVE OPENED UP FROM ABOVE AND THE WARRIORS HAVE SPOKEN WEVE GOT THE POWER THAT MAKES SKIES RUMBLE AND THE EARTH SHAAAKKE!!!!
LOAD THE SPACESHIP WITH THE ROCKET FUEL, LOAD IT WITH THE WARRIORS!

WITH THE COMMAND OF MY VOICE I RAISE THE LEVEL OF THE WARRIORS TO A LEVEL THAT CAN'T BE REPRODUCED
DIG YOUR CLOTHES INTO MY ORGANS, STRETCH INTO MY TENDONS, BURY YOUR ANCHORS INTO MY BONES, FOR THE POWER OF THE WARRIOR WILL ALWAYS PREVAIIIILLLLL!!!!!!

BY NOW ALL THE LITTLE WARRIORS KNOW THAT THE POWER OF THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANNA FEEL, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANNA TASTE, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WHEN YOU TURN ON THAT TV SCREEN OR WHEN YOU BUY A TICKET IN THOSE ARENAS, YOU KNOW THAT IT'S GONNA BE EXCITING!! AND IT MIGHT EVEN BE A LITTLE BIT FRIGHTENING!!

NOW YOU MUST DEAL WITH THE CREATION OF ALL THE UNPLEASANTRIES IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE AS I FEEL THE INJECTION FRM THE GODS ABOVE
I ONLY KNOW THAT THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR IS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

COME ON IN WHERE NIGHTMARES ARE THE BEST PART OF MY DAY,
I LIVE FOR ANGER AND FRUSTRATION, COMBAT IS WHERE I WILL BE

AS YOU...HULK HOGAN...TRAVEL TO WRESTLEMANIA
TAKE THE 2 PILOTS THAT HAVE ALREADY MADE THE SACRIFICE
SHOVE THAT CONTROL INTO A NOSEDIVE, HULK HOGAN!!!

....AND YOU WILL SOON BE CLOSE TO PARTS UNKNOWN"

Since he's from Parts Unknown, and warriors exist in Gemstone, this wouldn't be OOC either, assuming you substitute the few OOC references (Africa, lawnmowers, etc.) with something in GS. Right? RIGHT?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a162/DoyleHargraves/TheUltimateWarrior.gif

[Jolena]

Actually..yes. :D (Assuming you did remove the worldly references such as Hulk Hogan, lawnmowers, Africa, etc.) And if they didn't scream it in all caps constantly, which would just be annoying, not OOC.

[RichardCranium]

I have no idea what you're getting at with the rest of it, but basically, for me, my opinion, is that saying that creating another language is okay yet incorporating a player known language is hypocritical. If there is a good roleplaying reason for speaking French or German, why can't it be done without some precious Dhe'nar reporting it and saying nu uh, you can't do that?

For me the reason is that an established language like German, French, Spanish or Drow is jarring as fuck while a dialect made for Elanthia that flows with the medieval fantasy setting isn't.

[Methais]

Actually..yes. :D (Assuming you did remove the worldly references such as Hulk Hogan, lawnmowers, Africa, etc.) And if they didn't scream it in all caps constantly, which would just be annoying, not OOC.

But...he really is screaming. See?

www.myspace.com/ultimatelombardo

[RichardCranium]

But...he really is screaming. See?

www.myspace.com/ultimatelombardo

George 'The Animal' Steele pwns.

[Jolena]

You're an odd, odd man. :(

[Khariz]

For me the reason is that an established language like German, French, Spanish or Drow is jarring as fuck while a dialect made for Elanthia that flows with the medieval fantasy setting isn't.

Yeah...I think it was me complaining about people speaking in Drow that started the language-specific tangent.

The guy greets everyone with a Drow greeting. I googled it, saw that it was Drow, and was disppointed. I didn't feel it was my place to police the guy, but my character does ridicule him and treat him as if he's talking gibberish. My character does this because the guy is dark elf, makes verbal claims of being dark elf, yet speaks a language that is not Faendryl or Dhe'nar-si, neither of which my character is fluent in, but can tell the dialects apart.

As a player, I'm turned off by the other player speaking in Drow, and I think about it whenever he does it. Jarring is a good word.

[Skeeter]

so if I spoke Klingon, which isn't an established language ON EARTH I would be cool, I could even call it klingon because klingons don't exist in Elanthia therefore it's clearly made up. actually instead of calling it Klingon I'll just call it Nognilk maybe I can get my own CHE since I'm 1337 rper.

[CrystalTears]

So someone greeted you with something you didn't understand. So instead of roleplaying it and asking him what that means, and seeing if it roleplays into something interesting about his character, you googled it and decided it was jarring.

Okay then.

[Asha]

And the Nognilk language could have come from an ancient elven race called the Zaggin which were enslaved but evolved hair nets to aid them in their unfair and gruelingly cruel work.
Brilliant.

[Jolena]

so if I spoke Klingon, which isn't an established language ON EARTH I would be cool, I could even call it klingon because klingons don't exist in Elanthia therefore it's clearly made up. actually instead of calling it Klingon I'll just call it Nognilk maybe I can get my own CHE since I'm 1337 rper.


Ah but it is, as the Klingon language came from Star Trek, which is a movie. So..sorry, but its still OOC in my opinion.

[Fallen]

Why was this thread bumped again? It was made perfectly obvious where policy stands on this issue. If you have a problem with it, bitch to feedback, though honestly. You would be better served in just letting it go.

[Skeeter]

awww are you being upset by a discussion on a message board? so sorry if we hurt your feelings.

[Fallen]

Why would I be upset? You guys were wrong. It took about 5-6 people to point it out to you, but I had thought you figured it out. Apparently not. Some people would rather be ignorant to a fault, I suppose.

[Nieninque]

Why would I be upset? You guys were wrong. It took about 5-6 people to point it out to you, but I had thought you figured it out. Apparently not. Some people would rather be ignorant to a fault, I suppose.

You must have really good eyesight to be able to read all this with your head implanted so deeply in your bottom.

Just saying...

[Fallen]

One does what one can.

[Nieninque]

Delusion

[CrystalTears]

Khariz never explained to me why he felt it was better to google something and get upset about it rather than roleplay it out, since that's what is ruined now is the roleplaying. You didn't even know what it was, it was the perfect opportunity to get a discussion going.

I mean how did that thought process go? "He said something I don't understand. Let me be all OOC and google it instead of just asking him, because you'd think as a lawyer I'd use logic and common sense instead. Oh he's using an OOC language. Blast him for jarring my experience!" Um, yeah.

[Nieninque]

Khariz never explained to me why he felt it was better to google something and get upset about it rather than roleplay it out, since that's what is ruined now is the roleplaying. You didn't even know what it was, it was the perfect opportunity to get a discussion going.

I mean how did that thought process go? "He said something I don't understand. Let me be all OOC and google it instead of just asking him, because you'd think as a lawyer I'd use logic and common sense instead. Oh he's using an OOC language. Blast him for jarring my experience!" Um, yeah.

PWNT

But then he wouldnt have been able to report, Duh!

[Ignot]

You cant just come up with your own language. We RP a fantasy world and I get that but there is still a History involved.

So would it be okay for me to RP someone who speaks Faendrylinse, an ancient Faendryl language that only I know and that nobody knows about b/c it isnt part of Elanthia?

we cant have a bunch of people all speaking different made up languages. That is just retarded. Not to much all the time and effort into something like that makes you the Ultimate Geek of the Universe.

[Fallen]

You cant just come up with your own language. We RP a fantasy world and I get that but there is still a History involved.

So would it be okay for me to RP someone who speaks Faendrylinse, an ancient Faendryl language that only I know and that nobody knows about b/c it isnt part of Elanthia?


Yes. You could. And everyone would have the right to say you're nuts, and telling lies. Anything unofficial can be immediately overturned by a GM or NPC, not to mention you wouldn't have a shred of anything resembling proof to substanciate your claims.

But you certainly could do so.

[Khariz]

Khariz never explained to me why he felt it was better to google something and get upset about it rather than roleplay it out, since that's what is ruined now is the roleplaying. You didn't even know what it was, it was the perfect opportunity to get a discussion going.



I didn't explain myself to you because you jumped to a false conclusion which you based your post on. My previous post was about my PLAYER REACTION.

My CHARACTER responded wholly appropriately to hearing words that he didn't understand. I interacted with him for days as a CHARACTER until I decided as a PLAYER to google it because of how consistent he was with what he was saying.

So nice job jumping to a rediculously retarded conclusion because I decided to post as a PLAYER on a PLAYER'S message board about people speaking Drow.

[CrystalTears]

My apologies. You never stated what your character did. You could have cleared it up then. I'm sorry if I'm not clairvoyent enough to know what your character did when all you said was what you as the player overreacted to.

[Khariz]

My apologies. You never stated what your character did. You could have cleared it up then. I'm sorry if I'm not clairvoyent enough to know what your character did when all you said was what you as the player overreacted to.

Sorry. I didn't think to clear it up because I didn't know I was supposed to be talking about my character's reaction in the first place. I was always thinking of this issue as a "should people be speaking languages that don't exist" issue.

[ElanthianSiren]

I was always thinking of this issue as a "should people be speaking languages that don't exist" issue.

This issue will come up sooo much if you continue with that line of reasoning because we have a romance language assembled from other languages in English, which is known as common in GS. Do you get pissed if someone says croissant? Vis a vis? corpus? Winter? Finger? Hand? Ring? -Just saying. The language policy has always been a slippery slope because of some weird pathological insistance that English is not an assembled language; if you remove the roots, it's no longer English/Common.

Where you might have a case is that Zulkata (and this is going back YEARS) once made a post saying that alternate languages are okay as long as the GMs can get the gist of what you're saying (because people were apparently using foreign langauges to discuss alternate games). If you can't get the gist of drow, you might be able to report and have the people observed.

Personally, I feel switching to the straight English insistance took quite a bit from the game, but that's just me. Consider, if Dhe'narsi wasn't already an established player language at the time that they made this policy, a person could be warned for speaking it. It all comes down to the GM, as always.

[StrayRogue]

Half the weapon names in GS are European, so by making it English (or American) you'd pretty much be boiling things down to very little. Sword and Axe would have to cover a whole gamut of things.

While I agree speaking French is pretty fucking dumb, sometimes the integrity of the RP environment has to be compromised for simplicity.

If someone want's to come up with their own language (like the drow...er Dhe'nar), fair play to them. There's already a number of other language's in the game (troll, orc, ithzir etc).

[Drisco]

This thread just wont die! But yah making up your own language is taking it to far. You need to have some limits and the history is what makes the limits.

[thefarmer]

This is one of mine.

You ask, "Locksmith for stronghold?"

XXX asks, "Hmmm, what trains are those?"

You see XXX.
She appears to be a Half-Sylvan.
She appears to be youthful and taller than average. She has piercing pale blue eyes and tanned skin. She has shoulder length, straight black hair dyed pure white at the tips. She has a small nose and a narrow waist.
She has a thin dark diamond ring in her right nostril.
She is in good shape.
She is wearing a braided black spidersilk harness, a low-cut black silk blouse, a chain linked veniom lockpick, a dark leather locksmith's pouch, a black locksmith's belt, some elegant black leather armor, a tiny latched silver cigar case, some thigh-high black leather boots, a silver-edged deep black cloak, a gold ring, and some fitted black leather pants.

You shrug.

XXX says, "A guess is good."

You say, "I've never asked one how well trained it was."

You chortle.

XXX says, "Ok, thanks."

XXX says, "Hah."

XXX rolls her eyes.

I guess I could say something along the lines of someone over legend could learn from them , or tell her OOC-ish, but.. somehow the questions just screams OOC in the first place. Maybe it's just me.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah best to just ask from what creature the box was found, or at least which area. Asking how many trains is rather odd-sounding.

[Asha]

Asking how old the creature was made no sense too.

[Methais]

My RP pet peeve is when dwarves beat off in public, and say it's ok because they're a dwarf.

[Ignot]

My RP pet peeve is when dwarves beat off in public, and say it's ok because they're a dwarf.

Alright, I'll stop. Sheesh.....