No more Army blogs?

[Gan]

The U.S. Army has ordered soldiers to stop posting to blogs or sending personal e-mail messages, without first clearing the content with a superior officer, Wired News has learned. The directive, issued April 19, is the sharpest restriction on troops' online activities since the start of the Iraq war. And it could mean the end of military blogs, observers say.

Military officials have been wrestling for years with how to handle troops who publish blogs. Officers have weighed the need for wartime discretion against the opportunities for the public to personally connect with some of the most effective advocates for the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq -- the troops themselves. The secret-keepers have generally won the argument, and the once-permissive atmosphere has slowly grown more tightly regulated. Soldier-bloggers have dropped offline as a result.

The new rules (http://blog.wired.com/defense/files/army_reg_530_1_updated.pdf) (.pdf) obtained by Wired News require a commander be consulted before every blog update.

more...

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/army_bloggers

____________________________________

Does this mean no more pics and stories from Dave?

[Celephais]

Wow... that sucks... what a dick move. Hopefully by "approval" they just mean the SO saying "You posting where we are" "no" "carry on"

[Keller]

I have a buddy who is an officer on the ground in Iraq. He regularly posts highly critical blogs.

I wonder if that's part of it?

[Back]

Wow. Just wow.

Yes, I believe this will restrict Dave including posting on this very message board. That sucks. Not matter how much I disagree with him at times I’ve enjoyed his contributions and pics.

[Asha]

If I was Al-Qaida this would be the first place I'd look for sensitive intelligence.
Then Myspace.

[GuildRat]

Wow. Just wow.

Yes, I believe this will restrict Dave including posting on this very message board. That sucks. Not matter how much I disagree with him at times I’ve enjoyed his contributions and pics.

SST's posts haven't violated any COMSEC that I can tell...

There's a couple of reports that the Army uses to figure out what the enemy is doing/planning, the SALUTE is the most frequent.

SST hasn't:

S-size...described the size of his unit
A-activity....said what his unit was doing(at least no more than CNN or Fox News)movements, actions
L-location...where his unit is operating
U- unit...identity of his unit, tho patches give it away if you know what you're looking for.
T-time...self-explanatory
E- equipment...his unit's capabilities as far what they're toting into battle.

There's another report the METT-T report that covers about the same.

I think his posts would be well within what the Army would consider acceptable communication.

[mgoddess]

Hopefully by "approval" they just mean the SO saying "You posting where we are" "no" "carry on"

If it's anything past this, it's a complete dick move.

I can understand the military not wanting soldiers to post where they are, but restricting soldiers from blogging/emailing anything past that is just absurd.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd say Dave is guilty of several of those.

He often tell us the location of the picture for one.

[Celephais]

He often tell us the location of the picture for one.

I think the opposition is aware that the army is in whatever broad terms he's used to describe them. saying "I took this picture while in patrol of <town>" isn't as bad as saying "We've set up our overwatch positions on this street in this window".

But you're right, he could just say "I took this picture" and it wouldn't bother any of us to not know the town (cause it's not like I know those fucking towns anyway)

[CrystalTears]

Heh, y'all are just looking for excuses for Dave to not post here.

[Back]

Those dyed chicks could be part of a super secret strategy.

[Back]

SST's posts haven't violated any COMSEC that I can tell...

There's a couple of reports that the Army uses to figure out what the enemy is doing/planning, the SALUTE is the most frequent.

SST hasn't:

S-size...described the size of his unit
A-activity....said what his unit was doing(at least no more than CNN or Fox News)movements, actions
L-location...where his unit is operating
U- unit...identity of his unit, tho patches give it away if you know what you're looking for.
T-time...self-explanatory
E- equipment...his unit's capabilities as far what they're toting into battle.

There's another report the METT-T report that covers about the same.

I think his posts would be well within what the Army would consider acceptable communication.

Is that part of this new deal?


The new version, in contrast, requires "an OPSEC review prior to publishing" anything -- from "web log (blog) postings" to comments on internet message boards, from resumes to letters home.

How are they supposed to write home to their families now?

[GuildRat]

Is that part of this new deal?



How are they supposed to write home to their families now?

No, it's normally what the military looks at when considering OPSEC. Writing home to families is much different than airing blogs.

E-mail and IMs are still accepted forms of correspondence but every pre-deployment briefing will cover COMSEC and what is acceptable and what is not accptable electronic correspondence.

Every e-mail and every IM I wrote was subject to monitoring, it said so right at the computer station I wrote them from. We weren't allowed personal internet service in the unit I supported during the last 3 months of my deployment, tho we were at my parent unit.

[Sean of the Thread]

I think the opposition is aware that the army is in whatever broad terms he's used to describe them. saying "I took this picture while in patrol of <town>" isn't as bad as saying "We've set up our overwatch positions on this street in this window".

But you're right, he could just say "I took this picture" and it wouldn't bother any of us to not know the town (cause it's not like I know those fucking towns anyway)

I was pretty much making reference to the broad terms of the restrictions. Could basically be used to censor/block anything imo.

[Celephais]

I was pretty much making reference to the broad terms of the restrictions. Could basically be used to censor/block anything imo.

Ah, okay, in that respect I agree with you completely.

[Stanley Burrell]

I saw this yesterday.

This couldn't be monitored. Ever. No drill sergeant has the brains to begin lecturing the militaristic inefficiencies of whys and hows recruits using the internet have tertiary effects on the battlefield.

Yelling "none of that internet shit" might work in some instances, but I doubt this is actually a plausible idea in any aspect of physical implementation whatsoever.

[Back]

In this day and age, thank mankind, it could never be enforced to the letter.

[Stanley Burrell]

In this day and age, thank mankind, it could never be enforced to the letter.

You take the good with the bad, I guess.

[Alfster]

These are the types of rights you get taken away when you sign your life over to the man.

[Back]

These are the types of rights you get taken away when you sign your life over to the man.

QFT

A shame though.

[Daniel]

SST's posts haven't violated any COMSEC that I can tell...

There's a couple of reports that the Army uses to figure out what the enemy is doing/planning, the SALUTE is the most frequent.

SST hasn't:

S-size...described the size of his unit
A-activity....said what his unit was doing(at least no more than CNN or Fox News)movements, actions
L-location...where his unit is operating
U- unit...identity of his unit, tho patches give it away if you know what you're looking for.
T-time...self-explanatory
E- equipment...his unit's capabilities as far what they're toting into battle.

There's another report the METT-T report that covers about the same.

I think his posts would be well within what the Army would consider acceptable communication.

METT-C has absolutely nothing to do with the reporting information. What the fuck are you talking about.

[GuildRat]

Mission, Enemy, Terrain, Troops and equipment, and Time available- tho it deals with reporting unit status in this case.

You sure you were ever in the army?

[Daniel]

METT-C is a planning matrix. Used for internal purposes. You sure YOU were ever in the Army?

Ask yourself what time available, mission and troops has to do with what the enemy is doing.

[GuildRat]

Good god, I guess you never had to read FMs?

Tell me what the acronym stands for then? I've never heard of it, and I guarantee my 19+ years and still going dwarfs your 3-4.

[Daniel]

Good job. You got the acronym right. However, you completely missed the context. METT-C is a decision making framework and is the things you have to consider when making a decision.

You're on patrol and all hell breaks loose? What do you do? Well you consider first What your mission is, the enemy situation, the Terrain, available troops, time available and civilian situation.

I'm guessing that in your 18-19 years of military service the closest you've came to "reporting information" is to call the MP's on some punk playing his music too loud.

[GuildRat]

Good job. You got the acronym right. However, you completely missed the context. METT-C is a decision making framework and is the things you have to consider when making a decision.

You're on patrol and all hell breaks loose? What do you do? Well you consider first What your mission is, the enemy situation, the Terrain, available troops, time available and civilian situation.

I'm guessing that in your 18-19 years of military service the closest you've came to "reporting information" is to call the MP's on some punk playing his music too loud.


Yup you're right, it was rough on me. Having been in every deployment since Panama except Somalia. What? You spent a whole tour as a grunt? Amaze me man.

Justify your fuck up if you feel the need.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm guessing that in your 18-19 years of military service the closest you've came to "reporting information" is to call the MP's on some punk playing his music too loud.

lol pwnt

[GuildRat]

lol pwnt

WTF...the asshole doesn't even know how to make a standard infantry report?

Yea, I was pwnt for sure, dumb ass.

[Alfster]

Another classic GuildRat retarded thread!

Where's that damn popcorn?

[DrZaius]

http://www.missoulian.com/specials/salute/posters/posters-print/LooseLipsSinkShips.gif

[GuildRat]

Another classic GuildRat retarded thread!

Where's that damn popcorn?

Fuck off ass-munch...he retorted some horse-shit because he got busted knowing his ass from a hole in the ground.

Then didn't expect someone that's ex infantry to reply...so go die or flame someone else.

[Alfster]

:popcorn:

[GuildRat]

That's what I thought. No comment because you've nothing to comment on.

[Alfster]

That's what I thought. No comment because you've nothing to comment on.

Clearly, that's it.

:popcorn:

[GuildRat]

Clearly dumb ass.

[Sean of the Thread]

Then didn't expect someone that's ex infantry to reply.

Yeah and you made an ass out of yourself.

[GuildRat]

Yeah and you made an ass out of yourself.

How so? I didn't flame myself with FUBAR'd info.

You know what about the military...they wear green? Or in our case, digital camo?

You know absolutely fucking nothing.

The only person I feel has a reason to speak his mind, and that's because he's been the basis of my posts, is SST.

Daniel has proven himself a moron. And you, Sean the second....check this acronym...GFYSYFREMF.

[Celephais]

How come it's not METTT-C instead of METT-C ... you both said "Mission/Enemy/Troops/Terrain/Time/Civilian" ... but you both said "METT-C"

Anyway GuildRat I'm under the impression what he said seemed acurate "what does it have to do with reporting", and then you started the internet cock measuring contest :(

[GuildRat]

How come it's not METTT-C instead of METT-C ... you both said "Mission/Enemy/Troops/Terrain/Time/Civilian" ... but you both said "METT-C"

Anyway GuildRat I'm under the impression what he said seemed acurate "what does it have to do with reporting", and then you started the internet cock measuring contest :(

The Army acronym is METT-T....there's no C. There was no cock measuring contest until he started talking shit. Then it was more of him showing his ignorance.

[GuildRat]

The Army acronym is METT-T....there's no C. There was no cock measuring contest until he started talking shit. Then it was more of him showing his ignorance.

I correct myself....there is a C now. It makes sense...civilian casualties aren't in anyone's best interests.

[Celephais]

You sure you were ever in the army?


I guarantee my 19+ years and still going dwarfs your 3-4.

I had though for sure you said METT-C at one point too...
Still wondering why it's not triple T, I understand sometimes acronyms get messed up when they're unpronoucable and then they get made pronoucable and someone hears them and writes what they hear and that's what it becomes, that the case?

[GuildRat]

I had though for sure you said METT-C at one point too...
Still wondering why it's not triple T, I understand sometimes acronyms get messed up when they're unpronoucable and then they get made pronoucable and someone hears them and writes what they hear and that's what it becomes, that the case?

Seems the new, more digestable acronym is METT-TC now.

[Celephais]

Seems the new, more digestable acronym is METT-TC now.

Huzzah! It seems my 0- experience in the army trumps your two combined 22+ years!

[Alfster]

Huzzah! It seems my 0- experience in the army trumps your two combined 22+ years!

yhahahahaha

[GuildRat]

Huzzah! It seems my 0- experience in the army trumps your two combined 22+ years!

Not really as there's nothing in the current literature to show so.

The civilian part, makes sense, as I said. The army's not throwing 155mm shells in an area that civilians are going to be in, doing their day to day business.

Nice catch tho, especially if you googled it.

[GuildRat]

yhahahahaha


You're yap is still open? For the sake of Pete.

[Alfster]

You're yap is still open? For the sake of Pete.

Don't think I was talking to you.

Typing maybe.

[GuildRat]

Don't think I was talking to you.

Typing maybe.

True, if you were yapping, it would've been gargled by your boyfriend's cock.

Tho typing you're still a certified idiot.

[Alfster]

What's with all this homo-erotic talk you have going on in your posts?


Dude, if calling someone an asshole and/or a dick is homo-erotic....OMFG you're a cunt and a sagging set of titties. Is that better for you...paint a better mental?


Sheesh.


True, if you were yapping, it would've been gargled by your boyfriend's cock.

Tho typing you're still a certified idiot.


sorry dude, i'm straight.

Methinks someone here was glad they implemented the don't ask don't tell policy

[GuildRat]

Just moan MMMPH and swallow...he'll like that, bitch.

[Alfster]

Just moan MMMPH and swallow...he'll like that, bitch.

Keep your bedroom antics out of this thread please.

[Celephais]

Nice catch tho, especially if you googled it.

Nope, I just looked at it and saw you guys were saying three things with a T and one thing with a C...

Common sense > 22+ years military experience (or > "what's availible in the current literature")! Huzzah!

... and now I just googled it. It is METT-TC according to the Defense Technical Information Center (I'd call that "current literature"). They list it as: mission, enemy, terrain and weather, time, troops available and civilian

[GuildRat]

Keep your bedroom antics out of this thread please.

dude....BURN...you rock!!

[Alfster]

I'm not the one giving advice on what guys like.

[GuildRat]

Nope, I just looked at it and saw you guys were saying three things with a T and one thing with a C...

Common sense > 22+ years military experience (or > "what's availible in the current literature")! Huzzah!

... and now I just googled it. It is METT-TC according to the Defense Technical Information Center (I'd call that "current literature"). They list it as: mission, enemy, terrain and weather, time, troops available and civilian

The current FMs....that Daniel hasn't read, don't mention the C....it's all METT-T.

If you really want a hard copy, PM me and I'll mail you one. The DoA is not the fastest at getting out information.

[GuildRat]

I'm not the one giving advice on what guys like.

I'd think you were. Closet door...you curled in the fetal with your man just outside.

Sheesh, just come out.

[Celephais]

The current FMs....that Daniel hasn't read, don't mention the C....it's all METT-T.

If you really want a hard copy, PM me and I'll mail you one. The DoA is not the fastest at getting out information.

Appreciate the offer, I'm actually kinda surprised they're publicly availible (are they?). Wouldn't learning the enemy tactics be kind of... a good idea for our adversaries?

I have no idea where the DTIC fits into all of this, when I googled it I saw a result in a .mil toplevel domain, since those are limited to US Military usage I figured it'd be pretty reputable.

[GuildRat]

Appreciate the offer, I'm actually kinda surprised they're publicly availible (are they?). Wouldn't learning the enemy tactics be kind of... a good idea for our adversaries?

I have no idea where the DTIC fits into all of this, when I googled it I saw a result in a .mil toplevel domain, since those are limited to US Military usage I figured it'd be pretty reputable.

You'd be suprised what's available publicly, you just have to know where to find it.

[Sean of the Thread]

All I can do at this point is laugh at him.

[Alfster]

I'd think you were. Closet door...you curled in the fetal with your man just outside.

Sheesh, just come out.

You remind me of Cartman in the Southpark where he took a picture of Butter's weiner in his mouth because he thought that would make Butters gay.

[GuildRat]

You remind me of Cartman in the Southpark where he took a picture of Butter's weiner in his mouth because he thought that would make Butters gay.

And you remind me of some ass that knows nothing about the thread they originally posted in.

You're a real wiz, you've nothing pertinent to say. Not to mention you liken real life to a cartoon.

Find something worthwhile to post, moron.

[GuildRat]

All I can do at this point is laugh at him.

What the fuck have you contributed you stupid fuck?

[GuildRat]

Pretty much what I thought. Neither of you had shit to say on the subject at hand because neither of you know anything about it.

[Sean of the Thread]

Still laughing.

[GuildRat]

Still laughing.

And you think I give a rat's ass?

Laugh all you want dickhead.

You've still not contributed to anything that this thread is about.

[DrZaius]

And you think I give a rat's ass?

Laugh all you want dickhead.

You've still not contributed to anything that this thread is about.

You've been in a pissing contest for 3 pages. I don't think you have room to speak on the subject.

[GuildRat]

You've been in a pissing contest for 3 pages. I don't think you have room to speak on the subject.

It wasn't a pissing contest. I'm sure you know a heap about the military. I'll refrain from flaming at this point.

[GuildRat]

Oh wait, you've got so much going in this thread, how could I miss you're being a dumb ass? Because you're obviously a general or a colonel at least.

Good God, please let your infintesimal knowledge reign!!

[DrZaius]

Oh wait, you've got so much going in this thread, how could I miss you're being a dumb ass? Because you're obviously a general or a colonel at least.

Good God, please let your infintesimal knowledge reign!!

With that kind of attitude, you'll never make OCS.

[GuildRat]

Doh...please keep me from being lobotomized.

[GuildRat]

19 years in...a bachelor's degree...if you think I care about being an officer you're so wrong.

[Ignot]

I bet i could post anything and guildrat would respond with a rant filled with curses and name calling. let's find out!

............

[Daniel]

Fuck off ass-munch...he retorted some horse-shit because he got busted knowing his ass from a hole in the ground.

Then didn't expect someone that's ex infantry to reply...so go die or flame someone else.

Actually, I went out, had a few drinks and got some ass.

But for the record:

Uh. I hate infantry. I'm a fucking scout. I don't give a shit about what you think you know. I.e. You still don't know Mett-c and what it is for. Feel free to prove me wrong.

bust out a couple of those FM's you were talking about.

[Daniel]

I correct myself....there is a C now. It makes sense...civilian casualties aren't in anyone's best interests.

Yea. There has been a C for like 6 years now.

Good job!

[Daniel]

The current FMs....that Daniel hasn't read, don't mention the C....it's all METT-T.

If you really want a hard copy, PM me and I'll mail you one. The DoA is not the fastest at getting out information.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-94/c02.htm#sectionii


This is what we use. Notice, METT-TC

[Celephais]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-94/c02.htm#sectionii


This is what we use. Notice, METT-TC

You missed the part of the thread where I pwn'd both of you :(

[Daniel]

You missed the part of the thread where I pwn'd both of you :(

You missed the part where I didn't really care enough to double check the correct spelling of the acronym.

[Celephais]

Yea. There has been a C for like 6 years now.

Maybe he didn't care either...


This is what we use. Notice, METT-TC

Apparently you did care enough...


You missed the part where I didn't really care enough to double check the correct spelling of the acronym.

Nobody really cares about any of this... it's all just smoke... and some people are taking it way too serious, but they're helping the popcorn industry.

[Hulkein]

GuildRat, you would get your point across much better if you didn't respond to every single post that may be critical of you.

[sst]

For those who dont like reading my post, alas this wont effect me. The purpose is a stop gap measure for people who violate operational security regularly in their bolgs, emails etc. The army has had a problem with "Joe" talking about things that are not public knowledge and should not be. We all signed away our rights when we joined, its just part of the package deal... Low pay, life threatening situations daily, no freedoms, all so we can serve our country.

[TheEschaton]

Aren't you a fucking martyr?

[Celephais]

... all so we can serve our country.

And memorize acronyms.

... And shut up TheE. What's with the pisspoor attitude lately? I'm almost under the impression you're hitting the bottle real hard due to depression.
(If this needs to be discussed further, please take to another thread... title as you please... I'm sure it'll be angry)
*nevermind, made the thread for you.

[sst]

Aren't you a fucking martyr?

Am I a martyr, nope.

I'm here because I want to be and I feel it's a necessity. Do I enjoy it, fuck no, I hate every second of it. Would i rather be at home with the ones I care about/love? Yep you bet your ass I would.

[sst]

[QUOTE=Celephais;580614]And memorize acronyms.[QUOTE]

I hear METT-TC all the time, but honestly could not tell you what it means
I keep quick enemy reporting sent up to SALT
Size
Activity
Location
Time

So much easier and quicker to get across on FM

[Daniel]

Maybe he didn't care either...



Apparently you did care enough...




If it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Celephais]

If it makes you feel better about yourself.

It sure does, I'm a champion!
http://www.deathrowtshirts.com/images/products/DONKEY-PUNCH_DR.jpg

[Daniel]

It's not nice to punch other guys.

[Celephais]

And memorize acronyms.

I hear METT-TC all the time, but honestly could not tell you what it means
I keep quick enemy reporting sent up to SALT
Size
Activity
Location
Time

So much easier and quicker to get across on FM

Yeah, a lot of my work acronyms I slowly start forgetting what they stand for and just know what the gyst of it is (like how some people think of "scuba"). And I can't imagine under the pressure of combat you'd be like:

"Hey, isn't there another T? You're supposed to consider something else, THREE T's!"
"Oh yeah, I always forget that one, I use Old School to remember... Well, actually, pretty nice little Saturday. We're going to Home Depot. Buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring. Stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath and Beyond, I don't know. I don't know if we'll have enoughtime!"
"That's it!"

Anyway I do appreciate your sacrifices, and I think if anyone deserves a donkey punch in this thread (despite GR's anger) would be TheE if he ever said that in person to a uniformed.

[Stanley Burrell]

Why should we be pissed at soldiers for doing their job?

I have a tremendous problem with this war. That has absolutely no bearing whatsoever regarding the duties and age-old-dating-back-to-Sun-Tzu-style of military personnel.

If anyone wants to flip the "martyr" jab at our uniform, I'd suggest rationing it out a hell of a lot more at those initially responsible for the causality of this bullcrap in the first place. Or perhaps those who wear their Texas Air National Guard somehow turned Air Force colors for TV cameos.

This is like, reminiscent of the "baby killers" sentiment from 'Nam. That was some harsh shit. Can you imagine being drafted and then finally returning home after involuntary servitude, two or three limbs missing, only to be bitchslapped as a child murderer?

And no, this isn't specifically directed at TheE. At all. I just got tangent-y, visibly as I click rightaboutnow on Quick Reply, with a bigger and greater mentality that upsets me in general, my bad :blush:

[Gan]

Aren't you a fucking martyr?

This is probably the shittiest and stupidest thing I've heard coming from the mouth of someone who's an immigrant born with a silver spoon in their mouth, whilest enjoying all the benefits of US society and education.

[Sean of the Thread]

Aren't you a fucking martyr?

Wow. Just wow.

[Parkbandit]

This is probably the shittiest and stupidest thing I've heard coming from the mouth of someone who's an immigrant born with a silver spoon in their mouth, whilest enjoying all the benefits of US society and education.

/agree

You know TheE.. I gained alot of respect for you when you took time out of your silver spoon life to join the Peace Corps or whatever you did. While I don't agree with anything you say politically or socially.. it showed me that you are capable of walking the talk. Granted, this is the internet.. so who really knows. I still gave you that respect.

You took all that respect I had for you, and in one single post, you became nothing but a shitstain to me. What a really, really fucking pathetic thing to say.

[Keller]

Re: TheE's "Martyr" comment:

Dave's comment was martyr'ish. The free-market determines what jobs people take. Dave chose to join the army. He didn't have to. In his post he mentioned (I would say complained, but I don't know his state of mind) how the new limits on blogs are another example of limited freedoms to those in the military. Then, at the end, he said, "all so we can serve our country." That can either be taken as, "I'm fine giving up these freedoms because I know it keeps me safer" or "I'm serving our country and I can't even do x, y, z." TheE, in a finals-induced mood, having many previous interactions w/ Dave and an informed opinion of the tone of his posts, concluded that it was the latter Dave was trying to communicate.

TheE never came on these boards mentioning (or complaining) about the forebearances (included was his safety, although in a different respect) from joining the Peace Corp. He join the PC because it was the right thing (according to him) to do. If anyone on this forum has the "right" to call Dave a martyr for what he said it's definately Alok.

I'm not saying it was right, but I understand.

[Gan]

For those who dont like reading my post, alas this wont effect me. The purpose is a stop gap measure for people who violate operational security regularly in their bolgs, emails etc. The army has had a problem with "Joe" talking about things that are not public knowledge and should not be. We all signed away our rights when we joined, its just part of the package deal... Low pay, life threatening situations daily, no freedoms, all so we can serve our country.


Aren't you a fucking martyr?


Am I a martyr, nope.

I'm here because I want to be and I feel it's a necessity. Do I enjoy it, fuck no, I hate every second of it. Would i rather be at home with the ones I care about/love? Yep you bet your ass I would.


Re: TheE's "Martyr" comment:

Dave's comment was martyr'ish. The free-market determines what jobs people take. Dave chose to join the army. He didn't have to. In his post he mentioned (I would say complained, but I don't know his state of mind) how the new limits on blogs are another example of limited freedoms to those in the military. Then, at the end, he said, "all so we can serve our country." That can either be taken as, "I'm fine giving up these freedoms because I know it keeps me safer" or "I'm serving our country and I can't even do x, y, z." TheE, in a finals-induced mood, having many previous interactions w/ Dave and an informed opinion of the tone of his posts, concluded that it was the latter Dave was trying to communicate.

TheE never came on these boards mentioning (or complaining) about the forebearances (included was his safety, although in a different respect) from joining the Peace Corp. He join the PC because it was the right thing (according to him) to do. If anyone on this forum has the "right" to call Dave a martyr for what he said it's definately Alok.

I'm not saying it was right, but I understand.

I took it as Dave not complaining but stating that 'thats just how it is'. And I also equate the Peace Corps very different from serving in a country's military. One being humanatarian based servitude not country/patriotic servitude; harms way comparisons aside. And while admirable, I think (hypothesize) the motivation behind TheE's PC tour and Dave's military tour are both as a means to an end (one being extracirricular advantages to acceptance into college/law school and the other being financial, when looked at in each circumstance (TheE/Dave) respectively).

[TheEschaton]

A) The PC did nothing-to-very-little for my acceptance to law school - maybe if I wanted to do International Relations, Public health, or something. Law is so American-centric that international experience before school - not really relevant. As far as I can tell. Maybe it helped at BC, which prides itself on having publically-minded students, but who knwos.

B) Dave's post came off as if he's lamenting how much he sacrifices in order to "protect us all". I'm very familiar with how he posts, and it didn't strike me as anything else. You know that bit in the Bibles about the hypocrites who stand on the corner loudly proclaiming their misery as they fast? I consider it an apropos analogy here. Sacrifice is, for the most part, silent.

C) I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I was born in New Delhi, and was brought up for three years in Moorigate, one of the poorest areas of the city, and Lusaka, Zambia. When we moved to Philly in the States, we lived in West Philly, on Walnut street. The Osage Ave fire bomibg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE) happened a few blocks up, if you want an idea of the neighborhood. When we moved to Buffalo in 86, we lived in a duplex infested by rats with our shotgun toting neighbor, who liked to sit on the stoop, drink beer, and try and kill them. Since then, yes, we've been very upwardly mobile, but please, don't say I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

D) Luckily, the respect of you, PB, means nothing to me. I, while I understand they're "doing their job", unlike most liberals, do not automatically excuse soldiers for their actions, which, fundamentally, are wrong. Call it supercilious righteousness, moral naivety, whatever, but it's a choice every one of them made, and therefore they should accept responsibility for that choice. If it weren't for the fact that many soldiers see the armed forces as the only way to an adequate education (which is true for many of them) and feel they are "forced" to do it for a college education, I'd be for their complete accountability. As it is, I don't think they can be held accountable, given the economic situation of our country, but we both know Dave doesn't fall into this category.

E) I appreciate the benefits of what American society has given me. That's why I'm an economic liberal, and support social systems which support the middle/lower classes. And why I don't support a system which forces kids into wars just to try and break out of their class.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

B) Dave's post came off as if he's lamenting how much he sacrifices in order to "protect us all". I'm very familiar with how he posts, and it didn't strike me as anything else. You know that bit in the Bibles about the hypocrites who stand on the corner loudly proclaiming their misery as they fast? I consider it an apropos analogy here. Sacrifice is, for the most part, silent.
I agree with you. If this were a one time deal for him I would have shrugged it off, but that's typical Dave banter. I honestly didn't have a big problem with what you said because I understood where you were coming from.

I respect soldiers. I don't respect Dave for his views on several issues. Just because he's a soldier doesn't mean I should automatically respect him as a person. I'm proud of him for being brave and for serving our country, but quite frankly, he's still an asshole. The military hasn't helped curb that. I've said dick things to him too, and I've gotten heat for it.

[Parkbandit]

A) The PC did nothing-to-very-little for my acceptance to law school - maybe if I wanted to do International Relations, Public health, or something. Law is so American-centric that international experience before school - not really relevant. As far as I can tell. Maybe it helped at BC, which prides itself on having publically-minded students, but who knwos.

B) Dave's post came off as if he's lamenting how much he sacrifices in order to "protect us all". I'm very familiar with how he posts, and it didn't strike me as anything else. You know that bit in the Bibles about the hypocrites who stand on the corner loudly proclaiming their misery as they fast? I consider it an apropos analogy here. Sacrifice is, for the most part, silent.

C) I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I was born in New Delhi, and was brought up for three years in Moorigate, one of the poorest areas of the city, and Lusaka, Zambia. When we moved to Philly in the States, we lived in West Philly, on Walnut street. The Osage Ave fire bomibg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE) happened a few blocks up, if you want an idea of the neighborhood. When we moved to Buffalo in 86, we lived in a duplex infested by rats with our shotgun toting neighbor, who liked to sit on the stoop, drink beer, and try and kill them. Since then, yes, we've been very upwardly mobile, but please, don't say I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

D) Luckily, the respect of you, PB, means nothing to me. I, while I understand they're "doing their job", unlike most liberals, do not automatically excuse soldiers for their actions, which, fundamentally, are wrong. Call it supercilious righteousness, moral naivety, whatever, but it's a choice every one of them made, and therefore they should accept responsibility for that choice. If it weren't for the fact that many soldiers see the armed forces as the only way to an adequate education (which is true for many of them) and feel they are "forced" to do it for a college education, I'd be for their complete accountability. As it is, I don't think they can be held accountable, given the economic situation of our country, but we both know Dave doesn't fall into this category.

E) I appreciate the benefits of what American society has given me. That's why I'm an economic liberal, and support social systems which support the middle/lower classes. And why I don't support a system which forces kids into wars just to try and break out of their class.

-TheE-


At least you didn't pretend to support the troops as most liberals do today.

Still a dickface thing to say imo.

[CrystalTears]

So because you don't agree with ONE soldier, you don't support the troops?

[TheEschaton]

In fact, I said I give a non-committal "eh" to those in economic situations where they feel forced to go into the armed forces to get a better education. I don't think it justifies or absolves them, but I can understand why they would do that.

Dave, on the other hand, did it because he felt it was his patriotic duty, and I strongly disagree with the idea that it's EVER a patriotic duty to kill someone.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

Er.. okay.. nevermind. I retract my previous statement.

[Gan]

...and I strongly disagree with the idea that it's EVER a patriotic duty to kill someone.

-TheE-

:wtf:

[TheEschaton]

"Violence in the name of justice [or insert any good cause you want here] is still violence."

You should be able to figure out who I tend to quote by now.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

"Violence in the name of justice [or insert any good cause you want here] is still violence."

You should be able to figure out who I tend to quote by now.

-TheE-


I would of sent troops in, in force, to extract Osama Bin Laden from Afghanistan. Preferably to bring him to trial in the West somewhere, but, if he resisted - oh well. Dismantle the Taliban? Eh, I dunno, considering how awful the Northern Alliance is. I would stop funding the Taliban, though.

I would dismantle Al Qaeda in that country (which, I suppose, is akin to dismantling the Taliban, so sure, why not), sure as HELL not be such close bedfellows with Pakistan, and instead be closer friends with India, with whom I'd put more political pressure on Musharraf to dismantle Al Qaeda in his own country.



-TheE-

Man, I wish I knew which TheE would post next...

[Tea & Strumpets]

"Violence in the name of justice [or insert any good cause you want here] is still violence."

You should be able to figure out who I tend to quote by now.

-TheE-

It's easy to have that outlook when other people are defending your borders. If you honestly think that there's never a time for violence, then there's really no point in wasting time explaining reality to you. I just find it incredibly pompous and self-delusional.

[TheEschaton]

That's me equivocating on my personal beliefs for a larger good. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take it badly.

There has to be a separation between your beliefs, and, if you are a leader, the practical solutions. As a leader, in that hypothetical situation, I would have accepted the onus of every death caused in that action in the proportion that my decision caused it.

-TheE-

[GuildRat]

Unfortunately for us, life is not hypothetical.

[Latrinsorm]

If you honestly think that there's never a time for violenceduty != time

"Military service is a patriotic duty" versus "military service is a horrific necessity".

[Tea & Strumpets]

duty != time

"Military service is a patriotic duty" versus "military service is a horrific necessity".

Look at the quote I was responding to, Captain Nitpicker for the sake of nitpicking. There's nothing about duty in it, and to be honest, I'm not even sure what your vs. sentence is about either.

[Parkbandit]

Look at the quote I was responding to, Captain Nitpicker for the sake of nitpicking. There's nothing about duty in it, and to be honest, I'm not even sure what your vs. sentence is about either.

Welcome to reading Latrinsorm's posts.

[Latrinsorm]

Look at the quote I was responding to, Captain Nitpicker for the sake of nitpicking. There's nothing about duty in it, and to be honest, I'm not even sure what your vs. sentence is about either.Look at Eschaton's posts, Leftenant d'Feisty. There's nothing about not doing something in the one you explicitly quote, leading me to assume you were responding to his entire train of thought. The vs. sentence constrasts two positions: neither is one you responded to, but one is Eschaton's.

[CrystalTears]

You're starting to sound like Stanley, Latrin. Stop it. :cry:

[Latrinsorm]

Didn't you read the other thread? I'm taking finals now, I can say whatever I want!!!!!!!!!

[Daniel]

Dave, on the other hand, did it because he felt it was his patriotic duty, and I strongly disagree with the idea that it's EVER a patriotic duty to kill someone.

-TheE-

Hence you being a jackass.

[Tsa`ah]

Re: TheE's "Martyr" comment:

Dave's comment was martyr'ish. The free-market determines what jobs people take. Dave chose to join the army. He didn't have to. In his post he mentioned (I would say complained, but I don't know his state of mind) how the new limits on blogs are another example of limited freedoms to those in the military. Then, at the end, he said, "all so we can serve our country." That can either be taken as, "I'm fine giving up these freedoms because I know it keeps me safer" or "I'm serving our country and I can't even do x, y, z." TheE, in a finals-induced mood, having many previous interactions w/ Dave and an informed opinion of the tone of his posts, concluded that it was the latter Dave was trying to communicate.

TheE never came on these boards mentioning (or complaining) about the forebearances (included was his safety, although in a different respect) from joining the Peace Corp. He join the PC because it was the right thing (according to him) to do. If anyone on this forum has the "right" to call Dave a martyr for what he said it's definately Alok.

I'm not saying it was right, but I understand.


I agree with you. If this were a one time deal for him I would have shrugged it off, but that's typical Dave banter. I honestly didn't have a big problem with what you said because I understood where you were coming from.

I respect soldiers. I don't respect Dave for his views on several issues. Just because he's a soldier doesn't mean I should automatically respect him as a person. I'm proud of him for being brave and for serving our country, but quite frankly, he's still an asshole. The military hasn't helped curb that. I've said dick things to him too, and I've gotten heat for it.

Yup

[sst]

When have I ever complained about my treatment in the military?

All people in the military sacrifice things others take for granted for a good bigger than themselves. TheE did the same with his time in Africa, just in a different way.

As to CT If anything I'm even more of a prick now than I used to be. I assure you that has not changed in the least. I get the job done, and have been successful in my lane of work so it works for me. (the military does not help people to be nice, ask anyone who has served, it goes the other way.)

[Parkbandit]

I get the job done, and have been successful in my lane of work so it works for me.


This is true, as seen in a recent photo:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/adave.jpg

[Sean of the Thread]

All people in the military sacrifice things others take for granted for a good bigger than themselves.



I suggest you make immediate use of the GI Bill funds upon discharge.

[Keller]

(the military does not help people to be nice, ask anyone who has served, it goes the other way.)


cf. GuildRat

[GuildRat]

cf. GuildRat

HUH?

Don't you need to study so you can be the world's best PD?

[Parkbandit]

HUH?

Don't you need to study so you can be the world's best PD?

HuH?

I always thought Keller was going to be a lawyer, not a Penis Doctor. Oh well, he went with his first love I guess.

pwned.

[Keller]

HUH?

Don't you need to study so you can be the world's best PD?

If I got a job at the PDs office I'd have to move out of my mom's house, quit my job as a waiter, and probably be more satisfied with my life. And then I couldn't use the PC to vent my self-hatred on you.

[Keller]

HuH?

I always thought Keller was going to be a lawyer, not a Penis Doctor. Oh well, he went with his first love I guess.

pwned.

The best part about being a penis doctor is the self-confidence you gain by seeing other people's little wangs.

Wait, I think I just threw-up a little in my mouth.

[TheEschaton]

Because you're afraid everyone else's'll be bigger, or because you'd be viewing cock all day long?

-TheE-