What the heck is going on with Jesse/Querthose? (If you care)

[Necromancer]

I'm posting this because lots of people have asked, and I'm starting to feel bad because I think people think I'm about to die/starve to death/etc.

I'd also prefer that people didn't think I was a huge sellout. These are our personal items and characters, but they affect the community. Especially since the community is so small these days, and I think we all get a little freaked out when someone goes.

So, if you give a crap, you're welcome to read what's up. And if you don't, I'd just close the window now. I wouldn't blame you. I don't normally read these kinds of posts either! (mostly because I'm too ADD to get through them)

This is super long and dramatic/lame and highly personal, but as those who know me through psinet, tinychat, etc know...I don't shy from sharing personal details <g> Some of you know some of the details of the story. But seriously, omg, it's so long. Just skim.

Three years ago I dropped out of my MA program at Stanford U. I did my BA work there as well, and it was still open when I left (I used it to swing some badly needed undergraduate financial aid during my first quarter of my MA). I signed up for all of the units that I needed, and I made it until the last quarter of my MA year. I left with one thesis and two papers necessary to complete both degrees. I had always planned (and still do) to attend law school and become a law professor one day.

I didn't know why I left at the time. I was suffering from a pretty severe case of panic disorder, and none of the treatments were helping. I was barely functional from it. I had also shown up to my MA being promised all of the aid I needed (I'm one of those kids who was always on about $40,000 in financial aid every year...no one in my family has ever even gone to high school so you can imagine there wasn't a lot of financial support coming from them!), but a few weeks in they told me I wouldn't be able to get the loans I needed, and that I would have to promise to leave after the 2nd quarter and not show back up for the third (my aid could cover only 2 quarters) for them to disburse what I did already have. I spent the first quarter eating once every few days because I had no money, and I was trying to find some way to squeeze the money out from the school or an outside source (I finally managed through holding my BA open and convincing them to count me as an undergrad for a quarter so I could get $12k in grants). So, at any rate, everyone assumed that's why I was having bad anxiety problems.

What people didn't realize was that I had never read a single book for school since the beginning of high school. At first I thought I just didn't want to (it's very painful to me for a number of reasons but also often boring, let's face it), but I got to the point where I wa really interested in what I was learning and desparately wanted to read the assignments...but I couldn't read for long, and even when I made myself I couldn't understand what I was reading. The real problem was that I had severe ADHD and a few mild to moderate learning disabilities (including a reading disability) that I had been compensating for all of my life, and it was getting increasingly difficult to compensate. But, I was at Stanford, and I had a 3.5, so who was going to assume I had any LDs? (I didn't even think it- which is the funny thing about LDs...you just assume everyone else deals with the same things you do; they're just better at it/less lazy/smarter/etc).

At first, I knew I had to get some medical treatment, but I had $60,000 in loans, no money, and no insurance. So I spent the first year desparately trying to find medical care (finally talked my way into the Department of Mental Health...scary place!!), and then once it dawned on me that maybe I had some attentional/learning problems (mom finally tells me she was diagnosed with ADHD 7 years ago, thanks mom!) I spent my time and energy trying to find someone who'd assess me. Surprise, surprise...a 24 year-old gay male from Stanford University with a meth-addicted sister calls up and claims possible attentional and learning disabilities that guarantee you access to amphetamines raises a few red flags. Go figure. Add to that not having money to pay for it or insurance....you get the picture.

I finally found a place that did low-fee work for me (and by that I mean $600 evaluation and $100-140 an hour of ADD therapy instead of $2500 and $185-225 an hour). They were actually the experts in dealing with gifted ADHD and LD adults, so it was perfect, and they knew just how to help me out. This was at the end of year 2. So the last year I took a management position that finally gave me insurance, and I started paying a crap load of money to get things fixed and to figure out what my academic problems were. Medical bills shot up to about $600-800 a month, rent is at $900 a month, and loans are at $500 a month. So as you can probably guess, I've been falling behind in finances quickly. A student loan hit default, I almost lost my apartment, etc. I wasn't able to do any of my work for Stanford because of the ADHD/LDs, and I was always so exhausted from working 50 hours a week on my feet that I didn't have the mental energy. We finally figured out the reading problems just a few months ago, and the software and such that I need is about $800 a program (I need two), and the audiobooks are about $280 for membership fees and playback equipment.

Stanford refused to help me because I am no longer a student, but they won't re-admit me as a student until my work is done, and I have paid them about $5,000 (most of which is for 3 units they are requiring me to take before I graduate because of an obscure rule that states that all graduates must be enrolled in at least 3 units before graduation). Students who have their disabilities documented at Stanford get all of that software and the books and equipment for free. They also get things like thesis advisors and readers, which they refuse to give me. (so they basically said "You have to find some way to write a full thesis that's ready to be turned in without any academic support"...something most non-LD students can't do, let alone LD students!)

Then about two weeks ago I lost my job. At the same time, I had been going to various local schools and government aid offices and begging them to help me with academic support. I finally got a school to promise to give me access to their assistive technology resources and academic help (wooooo!! I'm not even a student there!) because they felt bad for me. Another governmental office said they could probably find money to pay Stanford back....but I'd have to get my loan out of default first since you can't get services from one part of the federal government while you owe another. I applied for unemployment, but it won't cover more than my rent and medical expenses....no food, no cell, etc. (yes, I'm finally getting to my point!)

So, I decided that there are two months left of school (i.e. the assistive learning technology lab is open 24 hours a day during the school year but is closed during the summer), and since one of my papers MUST be in by the summer (professor is retiring) that now was the time to take two months off to focus just on my school work and finally finish.

For the first time in three years I've got the medication, I've got the information I need to manage my inattention and my reading and writing disabilities, I've got access to the equipment I need to deal with these things, I actually have academic access, and I have a chance to get funding to pay Stanford back an amount that I will need years to find. Selling the wand was to come up with money to eat for the next two months. Selling Querthose is to get enough money to offer to the loan holders to get the loan out of default so I can add it to my consolidation loan and to make a small payment on the latter before it hits default. And all of this can be done in time for me to re-take my LSAT (now that I have adderall, study skills, reading compensation, etc) and apply to law school in the fall. 3 years of struggling and fighting, and it could all finally be over!

In just two months I won't have half of this going for me any longer, and as soon as I start working again I have to go back to serving because it's the only thing that will pay my bills that doesn't care that I don't have my degrees.

So, it's not that I'm going to die. My house didn't collapse on me (though I did almost lose my home for not being able to pay rent). I'm also not just bored, and I'm not just deciding that now is a great time to go play in Hawaii.

I just finally have a shot to crawl out of the hole I landed in. And I've worked so damn hard, and I've just wished and wished for a month or two to sit down and just focus on my school work, and it's finally here!

If I end up having to leave GS, I'll miss all of you freaks, I really will. But you gotta take care of yourself, and the stars have all aligned perfectly for me right now. And I got from being a poor, self-hating homo kid from Arizona who had never heard of Stanford to where I am now by utilizing every single opportunity I saw in front of me (and a few I didn't see, heh). So there we are.

Jesus H. Christ that's so effing long that I don't even want to go back over it and edit it to make it shorter. Eh, just skim.

Jess

[Ignot]

Good luck with everything.

[Asha]

x2 man

[Necromancer]

Thanks y'all. Now that the wand is selling, my most immediate problem (finding $900 for rent in 9 days with unemployment possibly not arriving until after the 9 days) is solved. So I'm not going to lose my apartment.

So, from here on out good luck is all I'm going to need.

[Nieninque]

Take care Jesse :)

[GS4Clagg]

Hey man,

Congratulations and Good luck on everything. Hope you are able to hold on to Q now that the wand is selling.

[Necromancer]

Yeah, I'm going to be doing the silvers and such through paypal.

Ha, KDLMaj@gmail.com

It's not a made up story, though I certainly wish it were some days.

But, all things considered, it's not ending nearly as badly as it could.

[Back]

You’re definitely doing the right thing. Thanks for the read and you’ll do well.

[Stanley Burrell]

Careful with the benzos. Don't self-medicate. If you can do any CBT for panic attacks or DBT for anxiety, I would strongly suggest doing so with dedication.

Good luck x infinity.

[Gan]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Good luck bub.

[Nilandia]

Good luck to you, Jesse. Knowing you, you'd seize upon any chance you're given, and it sounds like you've found just that.

We'll be here if you ever stop by again.

Gretchen

[Divinity]

We've had few interactions together, so I barely know you.. just wanted to say good luck and I hope the the best for you.

[Warriorbird]

Good luck, Jesse. You're a whole hell of a lot smarter than I am...except when you're not.

You'll be fine.

[Necromancer]

Thanks everyone! Very much appreciate the support. And, it looks like when all is said and done....you may still have me around. Thanks to the generosity of a few. It depends on how things go in the end, but we'll see.

And thanks for the advice Stanley; actually it turns out I never had actual panic disorder...it was just a side-effect of untreated ADHD (the "OH MY GOD" you get when you can't make your brain motivate itself to take care of things that need to be taken care of). Now that it's treated, I wouldn't even qualify for an anxiety disorder. Not bad, eh?

[Augie]

Take care and good luck Jesse. I know that things will work out for you.

[Kainen]

I hope you don't have to go. And if you do i hope you dont have to sell Querthose. I have had so many interactions with you IG and not just on Senja. I am gonna miss you IG. I hope that everything turns out well for you and that you get what you need to get to where you want to be.

[FinisWolf]

Good Luck Jesse, may the sun warm your shoulders, and the wind always be at your back.

Finis

[Aaysia]

Even though Aaysia only had a few interactions and hunting experiences with Querthose, they were thoroughly fun for me, I would be sad to see him change.

It's great that things seem to be falling into place for you after you struggled, so go for it. I really do hope everything works out for the best. Good luck.

[Alfster]

What people didn't realize was that I had never read a single book for school since the beginning of high school. At first I thought I just didn't want to (it's very painful to me for a number of reasons but also often boring, let's face it), but I got to the point where I wa really interested in what I was learning and desparately wanted to read the assignments...but I couldn't read for long, and even when I made myself I couldn't understand what I was reading. The real problem was that I had severe ADHD and a few mild to moderate learning disabilities (including a reading disability) that I had been compensating for all of my life, and it was getting increasingly difficult to compensate. But, I was at Stanford, and I had a 3.5, so who was going to assume I had any LDs? (I didn't even think it- which is the funny thing about LDs...you just assume everyone else deals with the same things you do; they're just better at it/less lazy/smarter/etc).

At first, I knew I had to get some medical treatment, but I had $60,000 in loans, no money, and no insurance. So I spent the first year desparately trying to find medical care (finally talked my way into the Department of Mental Health...scary place!!), and then once it dawned on me that maybe I had some attentional/learning problems (mom finally tells me she was diagnosed with ADHD 7 years ago, thanks mom!) I spent my time and energy trying to find someone who'd assess me. Surprise, surprise...a 24 year-old gay male from Stanford University with a meth-addicted sister calls up and claims possible attentional and learning disabilities that guarantee you access to amphetamines raises a few red flags. Go figure. Add to that not having money to pay for it or insurance....you get the picture.

Jess

I'm not even going to act like I read everything, i only read these two paragraphs.

>>>>>>>I didn't even think it- which is the funny thing about LDs...you just assume everyone else deals with the same things you do; they're just better at it/less lazy/smarter/etc).<<<<<<<

You probably didn't think it because you don't have a problem.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(finally talked my way into the Department of Mental Health...scary place!!)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

There's your real problem

>>>>>>>>> Surprise, surprise...a 24 year-old gay male from Stanford University with a meth-addicted sister calls up and claims possible attentional and learning disabilities that guarantee you access to amphetamines raises a few red flags. Go figure. Add to that not having money to pay for it or insurance....you get the picture.<<<<<<<

THe first line of that is hilarious. Yes, the second you walked into the office they KNEW you were gay. No one cares anymore if you're straight, gay, bi...and if you don't have the money to pay for it, why the hell are you bothering with it?

[Drew2]

That was a lot of text to say "I'm too unmotivated to do my schoolwork on my own".

I, unlike you, dropped out of school until I felt I had the necessary motivation to return. What I also didn't do is blame anyone/anything other than myself for it too. I'm sure you left out parts to your story like "Instead of writing papers and reading my books, I would play Gemstone/other game(s) for hours on end". But I'm sure it was due to your "ADHD/LD", and is no fault of your own.

[Trouble]

actually it turns out I never had actual panic disorder...it was just a side-effect of untreated ADHD (the "OH MY GOD" you get when you can't make your brain motivate itself to take care of things that need to be taken care of). Now that it's treated, I wouldn't even qualify for an anxiety disorder. Not bad, eh?

Hmm interesting. I always thought I had an anxiety/panic disorder but my situtation sounds similar to yours. I just lock up sometimes when I feel overwhelmed (hell, I've even locked up doing a healing rotation in WoW in the past, heh), but it's not really a panic in the sense I'm not actually dreading anything. It's a lot easier/safer to put ADHD on your record than an anxiety disorder, so maybe I'll get it checked out.

Good luck with your ordeal!

[Drew2]

The rest of the world calls that lazy.

[CrystalTears]

Heh. "Fuck ADHD. If they didn't have it when I was growing up as a kid, fuck you it isn't real." - Carlos Mencia

Good luck with everything. Regardless of what "disorder" you decide you have, just get the help you need to continue with your life and get it going.

[Trouble]

The rest of the world calls that lazy.

You talkin to me?

[Ilvane]

Wow, quite a story.

I wish you luck. ADHD is nothing to laugh or joke about, or even say someone is "lazy". It's sad that the presumption is still that a person needs to "try harder" to get better from something like this. It's not a switch you turn off and on, and besides that, it comes in varying degrees, much like layers of depression or anxiety. So one person may have ADHD and not have it nearly as bad as Jesse does..so no judging unless you are in his shoes.

Good luck with everything, Jesse. I don't know you well, but I do hope you get things straightened out.

Angela

[Tea & Strumpets]

Wow, quite a story.

I wish you luck. ADHD is nothing to laugh or joke about, or even say someone is "lazy". It's sad that the presumption is still that a person needs to "try harder" to get better from something like this. It's not a switch you turn off and on, and besides that, it comes in varying degrees, much like layers of depression or anxiety. So one person may have ADHD and not have it nearly as bad as Jesse does..so no judging unless you are in his shoes.

Good luck with everything, Jesse. I don't know you well, but I do hope you get things straightened out.

Angela


I think it's fiction, like a lot of psychological disorders. Our society just gives people excuses to do/not do whatever the hell they want, and there is a killer fucking profit in it. I fucking cracked up laughing when I saw a drug commercial the other day for "restless leg disorder".

Don't pay attention in school -- ADHD
Feeling sorry for yourself -- Depression

I guess that's pretty offensive, but that's just my experience with friends/family that have gotten diagnosed with the 2 above.

[Warriorbird]

Have you ever actually taught? Crazy psychological nonsense runs havoc in the schools. While I used to think some of the stuff was fictional (and I still think some of the diagnoses are) there are some kids with really distressing problems.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Have you ever actually taught? Crazy psychological nonsense runs havoc in the schools. While I used to think some of the stuff was fictional (and I still think some of the diagnoses are) there are some kids with really distressing problems.

I think that's because it's excused. "It's not your fault, have some of these drugs to deal with your medical issue that you are in no way responsible for. After all, you wouldn't get punished for catching a cold!"

[TheEschaton]

I sometimes wonder if some of these psychological diseases aren't self-perpetuated. IE, diagnose with ADHD, subconsciously allows a child to present serious "symptoms" of ADHD.

But this is neither the thread nor the time.

-TheE-

[Trouble]

I think it's fiction, like a lot of psychological disorders. Our society just gives people excuses to do/not do whatever the hell they want, and there is a killer fucking profit in it. I fucking cracked up laughing when I saw a drug commercial the other day for "restless leg disorder".

Don't pay attention in school -- ADHD
Feeling sorry for yourself -- Depression

I guess that's pretty offensive, but that's just my experience with friends/family that have gotten diagnosed with the 2 above.

While I agree that American society today is overly quick about diagnosing and (over) medicating issues (be they physical or mental), I do feel that a certain percentage of people really do have medical conditions. Like you say, there's a huge profit in it and the fact that pharmaceutical companies now market directly to the consumer make it much tougher for correct diagnoses to be made. Now that everyone has Wikipedia, WebMD, and the barrage of commercials we face every day, it's easy to see how people would either consciously or subconsciously will themselves to show precisely the symptoms needed to obtain the drug they think they want/need.

I don't see anything wrong with someone seeking help for things like depression, ADHD, or whatever, as long as they do actually seek out and apply any offered help. Giving a name to something makes it a lot easier to deal with it, even if it is just 'all in your head.'

[Ilvane]

It's not supposed to be treated like a cold, it's something that has to be actually treated, not just thrown drugs at. That is where the big issue comes in. It's not just an excuse, just as depression isn't just an excuse for being sad..it's something that sometimes needs to be medicated, sometimes can be cured by talk therapy a hell of a lot better.

:shrug: I'm not a big fan of the throw drugs at it way myself, because I'm more interested in holistic and herbal healing.

Angela

[Stanley Burrell]

I sometimes wonder if some of these psychological diseases aren't self-perpetuated. IE, diagnose with ADHD, subconsciously allows a child to present serious "symptoms" of ADHD.

But this is neither the thread nor the time.

-TheE-

Self-fulfilling prophecy, from a strict psychological standpoint, is taught from some of the most beginner's psych courses/high school classes because it absolutely ties into the idea of sociocultural impacts of overdiagnosing.

During the 80s Ritalin craze, and still, many psychiatrists (non-PhD more often than not, I'll venture), make a misdiagnose attention defecit with a hyperactivity component and use meds like dexedrine and Ritalin to create a paradoxical effect whereas, in reality, stimulants are about the worst thing a young child with a clinical anxiety predisposition could be subjected to.

I was given an ADHD diagnosis by a substitute teacher at nursery school and then, inherently, by my parents, at age 4. I was then given Ritalin while everyone stood by agog that instead of DSM correlated hyperfocus, I was a jillion times more jittery than usual.

One serious issue, not to be disrespectful to practicing psychiatrists, is that the extra year of residency is usually spent on a ward that in no way matches the human interaction one should, imho, ideally need to begin embarking upon the subject and respective treatment of child abnormal psychology. There is then that much more of an inadequacy in the child component field of medical practice as a result. Special emphasis seriously, seriously, seriously needs to somehow be placed on: A) Very clearly seperating the gaps between adult, adolescent and child psych. And B) Applying modern day censorship and education to realms of the FDA's marketing department that cater specifically to parents of young children in general.

Many people have an antithesis against this viewpoint ready to lash out and I can't really blame them since finding the balance between an asswhooping and a fifteen medication cocktail for a 3 year old with X problem is going to be held with some aspects of taboo no matter how you really skew it.

I'm starting to see a bit of the Ritalin craze in those Restless Leg Syndrome commercials, which are absolutely fucking hysterical. You don't need a Harvard degree, let alone a GED, to get the jist of crippling anxiety in a young kid.

This really wasn't the thread or the time. My b :blush: If the mods want to baleet/move, feel free. I just need to sublimate sump'times.

[Sean]

Did you ever consider getting a roommate ... so you don't have to pay $900 in rent?

[Hulkein]

I wish I was allowed to take adderall while taking the LSATs.


I'm sure you left out parts to your story like "Instead of writing papers and reading my books, I would play Gemstone/other game(s) for hours on end"

Hahahahaa

[Necromancer]

>You probably didn't think it because you don't have a problem.

I don't?

>Yes, the second you walked into the office they KNEW you were gay. No one cares anymore if you're straight, gay, bi.

That's actually half a joke; the meth problem among gay men in DC is staggering, and it's become a public health concern among many of the agencies. As such, there are clinics and doctors who specifically work with the gay community...those were among the first places that I tried as I figured I'd get more sympathy and a lighter client load.

[CrystalTears]

I thought it was your sister on meth, not you.

[Atlanteax]

The explosion in drug treatments and "diagnosis" of ADHD/etc ... is why a national health care system is a very bad idea for the United States, where the status quo for the general American public is that anything "wrong" is someone's else fault (ie personal responsibility does not exist).

[Necromancer]

I'm not sure this is the thread for discussing whether or not ADHD exists, but someone just started another thread for it, so let's move that part there?

[Drew2]

Staying in school to ultimately not succeed and starving yourself is definitely something a "gifted" person would opt to do. (Read: you're stupid)

As for working 50 hours a week ON YOUR FEET, big deal. Many people, including myself, have done or do that.

And I'd spend 3 days looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear too if it meant it wasn't my fault anymore.

Also, whether or not ADHD exists, the medication for it has definitely NOT always existed. Therefore, it can be overcome by getting your fucking act together and not feeling sorry for yourself. Or something.

[Necromancer]

Like I said, I used to say all the same things about myself. Even once I got the diagnosis, I argued with them constantly and told them that ADD or not I was just lazy. So I'm not going to get mad at anyone else for having the same misunderstanding.

I also told them that there was absolutely no way that I had a reading disorder...and all the while couldn't get the text on the page to sit still and often become physically ill reading because of it.

It's funny the ways we'll beat ourselves up over things instead of just accepting them and building a bridge around them. In retrospect, my unwillingness to admit that I had these problems (because I was smart damnit, and I was not going to be one of those "stupid" special education kids) and my strict refusal to explore alternatives (like audio-based formats for books, text-to-speech and speech-to-text software, etc) was lazy and misguided.

[mgoddess]

Best of luck and continued uphill-goodness to you man.

[Ilvane]

I started a new thread on the ADHD debate if anyone is interested.

[Artha]

I'm curious, with a bunch of reading disorders and stuff, how'd you get so into a text based game?

Just to prevent any possible misunderstandings, I'm legitimitely curious and not doubting your story.

[Celephais]

I'm curious, with a bunch of reading disorders and stuff, how'd you get so into a text based game?

Gemstone doesn't require reading...

[CrystalTears]

It would explain how he couldn't tell the difference between he and she in the character descriptions and actions...

[Necromancer]

That's actually a good question. I asked it myself when they were testing me.

I'm what they refer to as a partially compensated dyslexic (specifically what they're now calling Stealth Dyslexia). Historically I used GS as a self-medication for my untreated ADHD (even with medication, I can't be in my apartment and not doing anything, but before my medication I'd go crazy after 5 minutes at home if I wasn't playing GS or interacting with someone), but I actually credit it with helping me immensely with both my spelling and my ability to sight read. When I first started, my spelling was so bad that people had a hard time figuring out what I was even saying, and I missed EVERYTHING that was going on because I was reading so slowly.

But as we all know, we don't read most of GS's text, we just skim. A lot of my recognition is based on passage shape and length (to the point where I grossly misread things in GS sometimes just because the text looks like a similar and more common block of text), but I think that's the case with most of us. But constantly being exposed to different words and learning what they look like as well as constantly having to learn the correct spelling of different words over the years has helped me substantially. YAY GS!

Unfortunately my visual processing problems are still the same. Extreme problems with contrast sensitivity and right neglect remain. But a computer screen allows me to adjust contrast, and GS has a huge advantage for me in that it is based on white text against a black screen as opposed to a black screen against the white page. Like many people with RDs, my brain can't process the bright white. It overloads me, and it's one of the reasons why the text begins to move and I begin to get sick. Also crowding is a huge problem; my brain has serious difficulties picking out one object against a backdrop (like one word in the midst of many words), and in GS the text is more spaced out with more blank space period, so it's not as difficult for me to process.

There are a couple dyslexics running around GS, and I think we'd all tell you that GS helped us out a ton.

[Celephais]

But as we all know, we don't read most of GS's text, we just skim. A lot of my recognition is based on passage shape and length (to the point where I grossly misread things in GS sometimes just because the text looks like a similar and more common block of text), but I think that's the case with most of us.

Definatly agree, GS requires very very little actual reading to get by, but it certainly helped me learn several useful recognition skills as you stated. I also credit it entirely for my typing ability.

I also think I've read a total of two or three room descriptions my entire GS career. I'm sure I'll get yelled at for that. :help:

[Ilvane]

Jesse, you seem like a very intelligent person, and I hope that you succeed with everything.

Angela

[mgoddess]

I also credit it entirely for my typing ability.

I tend to give a lot of credit to GS for my typing skills as well. Back in high school, I took so many typing classes, and none of them worked. When I started playing GS though, I was forced to watch the screen while typing what I was wanting to do... thus, my hands started to learn how to type on their own without need of the eyes watching them (though, every now and then, my hands get one key column over, so everything I type is off by a letter... kinda funny-annoying).

[Nieninque]

It would explain how he couldn't tell the difference between he and she in the character descriptions and actions...

Winner!

I got it CT, even if no-one else did.

:lol:

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd say my typing skills were outstanding prior to GS. (thanks ritalin) However GS certainly gave me the ability to read very quickly at a glance. I can absorb a paragraph in seconds since GS.

[Fallen]

GS is most definitely responsible for my ability to type well, and the current state of my grammar/vocabulary. Is it perfect? No. However, I am certainly better off because of the game.

[Nieninque]

I'd say my typing skills were outstanding prior to GS. (thanks ritalin) However GS certainly gave me the ability to read very quickly at a glance. I can absorb a paragraph in seconds since GS.

I wish I could say the same.

I have to have certain words highlighted in different colours for it to make any sense to me

:whistle:

[Sean of the Thread]

I heard Tsin has Fisdan highlighted in pink.

[Nieninque]

I dont get it

[Sean of the Thread]

Lol. Fisdan is one of the more notable "cybah' Lovah's" of GS history.

I guess you either get it or you don't. Made me laugh hehehehe.

[Artha]

I credit a childhood of GS for my 780 SAT Reading score. I wish they hadn't changed it, I probably would've 800ed it.

edit: And thanks for the answer, that makes a lot of sense and satisfies my curiosity.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by CT
It would explain how he couldn't tell the difference between he and she in the character descriptions and actions...

Come on now CT to be fair it takes a substantial amount of time to keep creating PC accounts to defend yourself.

[Zarli]

I competely read through the first post, and a few pages of the replies until it started to annoy me.

I have a 14 year old daughter is is ADHD, I never have put her on medication for it. We work through it together, her frustration, her tears.. her ability to ace a test and fail miserably on homework and school work because she can't focus. Dont say it's not real.. she has spent many days and nights crying her eyes out because she wants to "do better" but just can't focus. Her mind races, going in and out of different subjects making it hard for her to do what is expected of her in school. Those of you without ADHD, without family of people with ADHD have no idea what a difficult thing it can be.

Maybe it didn't act 20 years ago like it does now, maybe it's evolving, maybe these kids are just different than us, it doesn't really matter what the word for it is that society has put out there. Whatever you want to call it, it's very real and very frustrating for the people that have this problem and the people that love them.

I talk to my daughter, she knows why she has special problems concentrating and she works VERY hard to get past them.

Good luck with school and your future Jesse, you seemed to have overcome quite a bit yourself and you're working towards more, you should be very proud.

[Necromancer]

Thanks Zarli. I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. It's not easy dealing with an ADHD child as a parent. Both in terms of the immense amount of work it generally takes just to get your child on a basic daily routine (sleeping, eating, remembering where their backpack is, etc) and because you can see the invisible barriers holding them back that no one else sees.

Props to your daughter for continuing to struggle. I took the easy way out and simply stopped doing work entirely because I was so tired of feeling so stupid afterwards.

I would say, though, I highly suggest using medication. Alone medication is fairly effective, but it sounds like you're actually doing a lot of the other necessary work (behavior modification, coming up with creative methods that work for your child, etc) that when combined with medication creates the optimal effect. She's always going to struggle with these things, and life will only get more demanding. You don't want her to burn out!

I wish someone had figured things out for me at an early age and helped me through it so I didn't spend my whole life feeling like I was pretending to be smart while actually pretending to be lazy just so no one would "figure out" how stupid I really was. And I know that without medication, all of my coping skills start failing me. They work best when I've got my brain working with me instead of against me.

Best of luck to you as well.

[Hulkein]

I have a 14 year old daughter is is ADHD, I never have put her on medication for it. We work through it together, her frustration, her tears.. her ability to ace a test and fail miserably on homework and school work because she can't focus. Dont say it's not real.. she has spent many days and nights crying her eyes out because she wants to "do better" but just can't focus. Her mind races, going in and out of different subjects making it hard for her to do what is expected of her in school. Those of you without ADHD, without family of people with ADHD have no idea what a difficult thing it can be.


Beat your daughter more imo.

[Drew2]

LOL Hulkein. I think we were raised by the same parents or something, because that's EXACTLY what I was going to type until I got to your post and saw you beat me to it.

[Hulkein]

Haha. I wasn't really hit that often (rare exceptions), I was just trying to elicit an outraged response from her to tell the truth.

[TheEschaton]

It seems to me that "ADHD" in the old days was considered "genius".

I mean, hell, every great mind ever was scatterbrained and couldn't really focus. Einstein? That cat practically failed out of school. Don't label it as a disease and make people all psychologically uptight about it. Recognize it for what it is: a different, often unique way of thinking which lets you see the world in a different way.

-Thee-

[ViridianAsp]

Good Luck Jesse, if you do leave GS I hope you have great success in life.

Sammie/Hadya

[Skeeter]

when I was a kid you didn't have ADHD if you failed, you were just dumb.

[Dropped_In]

Depression is directly correlated to low levels of serotonin, dopamine, and/or norepinephrine. ADHD has been directly shown to be genetically inherited, and the same syptoms arise frequently following brain trauma. Denying their existence because you are an arrogant moron who took college biology for English majors will cause the majority of the waking world to laugh in your face. You are not a psychologist and are in no way qualified to be skeptical "just because". We knows you earned evry penny you eva made, cause thas how this place turns. Them hypers is just a complainin.

AIDS doesn't make people die. The world looks flat. You are an idiot.

[Alfster]

wow.

[StrayRogue]

when I was a kid you didn't have ADHD if you failed, you were just dumb.

Amen.

[Dropped_In]

In 1950 they didn't have computers. In 1850 they didn't have cars. In 1750 you probably couldn't read this page and your leisure time would be spent daydreaming what you could do with another ox. People may die. Ideas may die. Stupidity is forever.

[StrayRogue]

So are excuses.

I do believe in psychological disorders, certainly. However they and a whole host of other physical or mental problems are batted around so commonly these days. Everyone has something wrong with them, it seems.

What the decent thing to do is to just get the fuck on with it. Instead most people use it as a crutch, blaming it for all their problems and failings.

[Necromancer]

I think people need to take a moment to consider what an "excuse" really is.

People getting the help and resources they need isn't an excuse; it's the opposite of an excuse. It's being realistic about one's limitations and finding an alternate route to the goals in their lives.

Lazy is ignoring a problem and refusing to treat it. Stupid is pretending that if you continue to hit your head against the same brick wall over and over again, one day it'll turn out differently.

Is a dyslexic lazy for getting audio format books and not reading everything one agonizing word at a time? Are they stupid for this? No, they're not any more so these things than the diabetic who takes insulin injections instead of "toughing it out" or whatever it is people seem to believe.

And if your body can fail to produce insulin in necessary levels, then your body can fail to produce dopamine and norepinephrine in necessary levels. It's as simple as that. Unless you think that maybe god or the heavens above provide some divine protection to the physiological processes involved in the creation of neurotransmittors? Or maybe that the soul and jesus are responsible for our brain's ability to process information and activate itself? If so, there's no point in continuing this discussion ;)

I'm a big fan of not making excuses myself. If you have untreated ADHD, take your dopamine and norepinephrine supplements (i.e. stimulant medication) so you can stop complaining that life never gets any easier and that no matter how hard you try you fail again and again. Then go get your cognitive behavioral therapy to learn how you have to do things to work around your neurological differences and achieve your goals.

It's ironic that some people will suggest that an individual do none of this and call it "smart" and "hard working".

[LordBacl]

I have a 14 year old daughter is is ADHD, I never have put her on medication for it. We work through it together, her frustration, her tears.. her ability to ace a test and fail miserably on homework and school work because she can't focus. Dont say it's not real.. she has spent many days and nights crying her eyes out because she wants to "do better" but just can't focus. Her mind races, going in and out of different subjects making it hard for her to do what is expected of her in school. Those of you without ADHD, without family of people with ADHD have no idea what a difficult thing it can be.

I am ADHD.

I don't want to argue pro-medication nor anti-medication. My rule is in this matter, "If it works for you, then it works." Here, however, is the simple facts of my own ADHD experience.

I was first diagnosed in second grade and was put on ritalin. I hated taking it, hated the way it made me feel, and didn't believe it did me any good. School was still a nightmare, my grades sucked, I was unpopular and not very happy. I refused to keep taking it, and actually had parents who respected my wishes.

In fourth grade I was diagnosed again as being ADHD and put on imipramine. Second verse, same as the first.

I would test into the gifted programs and then flounder there, never listening to the teachers or doing a shred of homework. By high school I was the only one in my graduating class not going on to college (graduating class of 40-50 students of a gifted magnet program for studies in zoological and biological studies). Instead I went to junior college, got barely passing grades, and then dropped out.

And then I went back.

I worked my ass off to make up for my missed semester, and though I still floundered in most GE classes, I found that I excelled in the English and Composition classes. I met my transfer requirements, and transferred to San Francisco State University as an English major.

At State I made the Dean's list every semester but one, was the assistant editor in chief of the university literary magazine for over a year, and even got to work as a teacher assistant for a Craft of Fiction class (something only graduate students had ever been allowed to do in my department).

I also met and fell in love with the woman who is now my wife.

As I got ready to graduate, I applied for several master's programs, and failed to get into any of them. My now wife got accepted into the University of Arizona, and so I moved out to Tucson to follow her. Unable to find good work there, I ended up doing a million shit jobs including working the drive-thru window at Jack-In-The-Box during the graveyard shift (ah, the things a BA in English can bring you). I worked my ass off again, this time on revising my graduate school application and portfolio, and got accepted into the University of Arizona.

I was given two freshmen English classes to teach while I got my graduate degree, which turned me onto the joys of being a teacher. After I graduated, I worked as an adjunct at several great colleges in Arizona and California. I then got an offer to teach at Tsinghua University in Beijing, China, which is one of the top schools (if not the top) of that country.

And that's where I finally asked that woman I now call my wife to marry me!

We got married, I finished my novel, started on the second, and began travelling around Asia (mostly China) as English teachers.

So that's where this little ADHD child ended up. My wife and I currently teach in Nanjing, and are looking to move to Barcelona this summer. And yeah, there's talk of kids in the not too distant future. And yeah, I am still ADHD. It's who I am. I don't take medication for it, and I don't see therapists or psychologists or psychiatrists about it. I deal with it in my own way, and that's what works for me. But that's me, not necessarily you or your kids. Everyone has their own story.

[StrayRogue]

Well put, both of you. Part of life is overcoming what's thrown at you. What pisses me off, especially in this country, are the fucks who have these conditions, don't bother to do anything about it, then claim disability from it. They get asked why they fucked up school (and in turn, their adult lives), and they blame ADHD or whatever as if it was like completely down to genetics. These are the fucking moron's I have no sympathy for.

[Skeeter]

so the moral of this story is, you can work your ass off and succeed, or you can play GS and WoW all day, never read a textbook, fail out of school and call it a day.

[Skeeter]

You are not a psychologist and are in no way qualified to be skeptical "just because".

I actually do have a degree in psychology. Guess I am qualified to be skeptical "just because."

[Nieninque]

Depression is directly correlated to low levels of serotonin, dopamine, and/or norepinephrine. ADHD has been directly shown to be genetically inherited, and the same syptoms arise frequently following brain trauma.

Source please?

[ViridianAsp]

when I was a kid you didn't have ADHD if you failed, you were just dumb.


Wow, my cousins have ADHD, they have batttled with it all their lives, they are the brightest damn kids and despite their disadvantage they overcome it and make straight A's but because of their ADHD certain excetptions had to be made.

I have dyslexia, I was classified as a "slow learner" as a child. When my parents learned what dyslexia was, they had me tested. I wasn't a slow learner, I just didn't know how to learn with my disability. So, if you think people are simply stupid because they have a certain learning disability, you are wrong. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

[Jazuela]

When I was in 2nd grade we had to read our classbooks out loud. The whole ridiculous "Fun with Dick and Jane" stuff that probably kids now don't have to endure. I always choked when it was my turn, I'd stutter like crazy and trip over the words and all the kids would laugh at me. My parents were told I had severe reading problems and sent me to a speech pathologist and a special reading disabilities counselor. Turns out, I wasn't just NOT reading disabled, I was reading gifted. I was a natural speed-reader, with full comprehension of the words. The trouble, was that my mouth can't keep up with my eyes, so I just can't read aloud without stuttering. But if I'm reading silently, I read faster than the the higher of the "average" spectrum. They tried to teach me to slow down my mind...a futile attempt. And why would someone want to SLOW you down, when you're gifted, anyway? To me it's the same thing as subduing someone with ADD. If someone has a mind that sucks up more data than average, why try to subdue it? Why not teach that person how to filter it instead, so they can pick and choose which bits of data they want to concentrate on? Why try to dull overactive senses, when they could just teach a person how to enjoy those overactive senses and use them to their advantage?

That's the thing that bugs me about the medical community's chemical "solutions" to ADD. It makes ADD an illness rather than an odd quirky skill that should be encouraged and trained, rather than subdued.

[Necromancer]

Eh, that's a common misunderstanding about ADHD- that you process things quickly. Actually, the opposite is true. One of the typical patterns on IQ testing for people with ADHD is low processing and low working memory scores. The reason is that the part of the brain impaired in ADHD, as it deals with attentional regulation, has difficulties prioritizing incoming information and determining what to disregard and what to retain. Also, being smaller and having fewer neurotransmittors than normal, it has difficulty adjusting to new information and switching tasks.

For me, my output is very fast. And that's because my brain is going a hundred miles a second (partially from IQ, partially from hyperactivity), but my input is s-l-o-w. I pity the person who switches their walking direction in a way that relies on me to move out of their way...odds are by the time I've figured out that they've moved, that they're coming my way, that I should move, and which direction I should move in...they've already passed me with an irritating glance <g>

[Skeeter]

So, if you think people are simply stupid because they have a certain learning disability, you are wrong.

where did I ever say that?

[Zarli]

Right Jesse.. Little things just never make it in with my daughter. I'll say "hey, do such and such at 2:30" lol within 15 minutes, that's completely gone from her head. I know that some of that is just being a kid, dont get me wrong, but her ability to listen and retain stuff is pretty slim because for one, she never shuts up long enough to actually hear me.

Her test scores on state tests have been WAY above average, and when she's really interested in something, like drawing.. that's her thing, she can actually spend hours doing it.

If she ever choses to take meds for it that'll be up to her, but while she's still my responsibility, we'll keep doing what we do with refocusing her, tons of reminders and help finding ways to get her to remember things. There's lots of creative ways to do so. Find something she's interested in and somehow relate it to what needs to be remembered works very well.

For those idiots who were trying to get me riled up.. whatever, you dont really matter enough to go there.

For the other people it's actually nice to hear what you all had to say about your own experiences.

[Necromancer]

I'd suggest giving her omega-3 supplements (it has to be fish oil, the flax seed-based stuff won't do it...and this is coming from a strict vegetarian! Also, it takes 3 months or so before it really kicks in, so you have to be patient), a high protein diet (helps her body produce dopamine and norepinephrine), and exercise! If she has any interest in sports, get her into some activity that lets her pursue that interest (if she isn't already). If she's like me and has little interest in team sports, get her a piece of exercise equipment like the Balley's Twist Board. It's really easy (and actually fun) to use- and I hate the gym! Exercise increases her dopamine release, and it helps work out excess energy (particularly useful at night).

And, of course, never underestimate the power of a coke here or there. Caffeine and adderall release many of the same chemicals.

[Necromancer]

Testing and LDs are an interesting subject. The wrong test battery, and your kid may never get properly diagnosed. And so many people are using the same standardized method of testing assessment...and the trends they look for are really only accurate for people in the 90-110 IQ range (which, to be fair, is most people).

They tested me as a kindergardener because they highly suspected mental retardation. The scores came out in the gifted range, and they just assumed I was bored. All they gave me was a general IQ test, and since I didn't show the usual ACID profile (low scores in Arithmetic, Coding, Information, and Digit Span) for ADHD or the usual dyslexia profile (low processing speed, average to high working memory), they just assumed I was fine.

But kids who test in the 130+ IQ range almost never show those profiles. They generally have some of their highest scores in the ACID test mix, and highly gifted dyslexics often show average or even above average reading comprehension and few, if any, phonology issues. To this day, my reading assessments show slower than average reading but slightly above average comprehension and "word attack" skills. And Arithmetic and Coding were two of my highest IQ scores.

If the place I went to hadn't also tossed in a test of verbal/auditory memory and verbal fluency tests, no one in their right mind would've diagnosed me with either a reading disability or ADHD. But my auditory short-term memory put me at the equivalent of a 55 IQ! And my verbal fluency scores hit the ceiling, which means they were higher than the actual max score. Something is very wrong with someone whose verbal IQ scores are in the top 1% but who can't remember a short list of words just seconds after they're said. And something is very wrong with someone who has off-the-chart abilities to recall words and their definitions from long-term memory at a second's notice who can barely hit age appropriate norms for written material (and that's after graduate work in the social sciences!).

It's all a crazy game. Diagnosing this stuff is still as much Art as science. Hopefully the next generation or two won't have to face the uphill battle that the rest of us had to face.

[Stanley Burrell]

I wish I was allowed to take adderall while taking the LSATs.

Wait, what? Er. If you're clinically AD(H)D, how could you legally be told, let alone forced not to? Last I heard, blood screenings weren't needed for the LSATs/SATs/MCATs/etc...?

That's some serious horseshit otherwise.

[Necromancer]

Technically you have to apply to LSAC to get approval to take your stimulant medication. And they turn down over half of the people who apply for accommodations (I was flat out rejected personally, and all I asked for was the ability to take my meds and movement breaks between sections!).

Of course, everyone still takes their meds anyway <g>

[Stanley Burrell]

If an individual's GAF rises and can help the world that much more, even as a beuracratic paperpusher/lawyer, then my horseshit sentiment sticks like Elmer's.

That is absolutely fucking propostrous to insinuate. Granted, I've needed the exact opposite course of psychotherapeutic central nervous system approach to examinations, not to mention a mild addiction, it seems that I am still obliged to blow hot air at this inconceivable feces. Wow.

[Necromancer]

Some links if people are interested:

http://www.helpforadd.com/medical-treatment/
(Duke Professor's short article on the effectiveness of stimulant medication)

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p991201b.html
(Article comparing two conflicting studies, each dealing with risk for substance abuse with stimulant therapy- the article seems to side more with the idea that stimulant therapy is risky and can lead to SUDs later in life)

(Quick note on the substance abuse theory: the vast majority of medical professionals and associations actually agree that early treatment with CNS stimulants like ritalin and adderall helps prevent substance abuse problems later. In fact, these stimulants have been used to help with cocaine addiction in adults with moderate to severe untreated ADHD by curbing their craving for cocaine in the same way wellbutrin has been used to curb cocaine and tobacco cravings. So this article finds itself in the minority, though it had a good critique of the study it seemed somewhat against. Finally, so people know...cocaine, tobacco, and dopamine (as released in ritalin and adderall) all use the same neuro-receptors in the brain. So cocaine use and smoking are very common in untreated adults with ADHD)

http://add.about.com/cs/biologyofadd/a/immunesystem.htm

Just a quick article about new links between ADHD and the immune system. For those that don't know, dyslexia and dyspraxia have both got long-standing links to immune systems disorders; which further points to them being broad neurological conditions and not simply isolated reading/movement problems.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=143465

This is a great NIH page that outlines the current research on ADHD and genetics. Generally, ADHD is considered to be 90% inhereted.

And I couldn't find the article I read that outlined the history of amphetamines in treatment of ADHD. But, so people are aware, it actually came out of asthma medications. They noticed that the hyperactive kids on asthma meds all seemed to do a lot better once they used their inhalers. They totally calmed down, and they were more focused. That's when they realized that these kids were benefitting from the stimulant medication in the inhalers, and dexedrine eventually came out of it. So it's not that people said "Oh, we have ADHD...let's give them amphetamines!" It was "Hey, this is odd...these hyperactive kids are a LOT calmer on this medication. Why is that?".

[Stretch]

Somewhere, Tom Cruise is crying.

[Necromancer]

I hope so.

Okay, this is my last day in GS for a while. Good luck kids.

[Xaerve]

The irony in your last response is crushing ;)

Take care.

[Eoghain]

I wish I could say the same.

I have to have certain words highlighted in different colours for it to make any sense to me

:whistle:

Here's your chief problem. It's *COLOR* YOU EFFIN NON-AMERICAN. GO back to England, ya limey.

The Letter is pronounced ZEE, not ZED. Go back to Canadia (yes, it's the 51st state) ya effin floppy-headed bastid!

Let's see, who else spells things funny...

KIWIS SUCK! (Unless you're Xena).

Do australians spell like that? If so, I'd love to come to Sydney and experience your culture. Plz to be purchasing my plane ticket? :)

:D

<3,
Eoghain