Feedback lays down the law on GM-Ikaan (and myself?!)

[Liberi Fatali]

Here's the e-mail I sent to feedback:


Dear sirs:

Three nights ago I was subject to a lamentable lack of customer courtesy and what I feel was an unnecessarily heavy-handed approach to enforcing policy within the game.

While my character (and my play style) are sometimes rowdier than is perhaps ideal, I have never in what I estimate to be ten years of gameplay received a warning for vulgarity; I consider myself generally skillful in selecting more appropriate (and/or humourous) words to express frustration.

Regrettably, I failed to do so on that night (15/4/07) and typed out of haste. I was in relative seclusion with one other person. Having been companions for quite some time, I'm certain that person did not complain.

Despite my record being clean of any mentions of vulgarity, as the GM Ikaan later admitted, I was given a warning and an official notation on my account history due to an accidental blurting. While I cannot justify the word I used, I am very unhappy that I did not receive the lenience for language that other players commonly do, namely the "soaping" mechanic or even a gentle SEND.

While the warning is valid under your policy, I feel ill-served by it, and would ask that a little more discretion be exercised when determining how strong of a deterrent to employ with your players, whether senior or new to the game. I ask as well that my warning for vulgarity be reviewed, and if not removed, then adjusted to record that it was my first warning for it and that I received no reminders or other leniency that such a warning would imply I had ignored.

Thank you for carefully considering my request, and I look forward to your response. I have the honour of being,

Very Respectfully, Your Obedient Servant,

Tabor.


Their reply:

Good day,
I have reviewed the records pertaining to this official warning as issued by GameMaster Ikaan. First and foremost, the type of language used in this situation is something that can be considered a violation of policy. Whether a GameMaster chooses to give your character a soaping, a verbal caution or an official warning is up to the GameMaster themselves. This means that GameMaster Ikaan's choice to give your character an official warning is an appropriate method for addressing this matter and by no way did the GameMaster do anything wrong in doing so.
With that being said, I have discussed this matter further with the Senior staff in regards to the issuing of the warning. Our discussion tossed back and forth whether or not your account history warranted its removal. Your attitude towards staff in the recent past regarding issues has been less than exemplary and has been bordering on violating our Mutual Respect policy noted in NEWS 5 16. That behavior weighed in heavily in how we chose to address the matter of this warning issued to Jenovadeath.
We have decided to approve your request for removal of the warning and also provide you with an official caution to address your behavior else you will risk receiving future warnings that will not be removed. Verbally insulting and attacking staff is something we will not tolerate. Calling a GameMaster a coward in an attempt to get the type of response you want is not acceptable. Continuing behavior along this trend will find yourself receiving further official warnings for Disruptive Behavior and, ultimately, removal from the game will be warranted.
This is the only caution of this type you will receive as future incidents will result in official warnings being issued. This will be noted in your account records and the GameMasters will be provided handling instructions for future incidents.
The next time Jenovadeath is logged into the game, he will be placed into the referral queue. During the referral, he will have this official warning removed from his record. You will also be required to verbally agree to abide to all Simutronics policies in the presence of the GameMaster before being returned to the game. Agreement to this will act as your acknowledgement of this caution and the actions that will result should you continue. Failure to agree to adhere to these policies will result in the removal of your account from the game until you choose to agree.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

GameMaster Antavian Giantwind
Feedback, Simutronics Corporation

[Celephais]

So you decided to waste more game host time? Nice.

[Liberi Fatali]

So you decided to waste more game host time? Nice.

I'm actually at a loss for your lack of reading comprehension -- there was no mention of having to speak with a game host.

[Celephais]

I'm actually at a loss for your lack of reading comprehension -- there was no mention of having to speak with a game host.

Ah yes, sorry, no gamehost time wasted, the obviously less valuable gamemaster time. Glad you dodged the question though.

[Liberi Fatali]

Ah yes, sorry, no gamehost time wasted, the obviously less valuable gamemaster time. Glad you dodged the question though.

There was no dodging involved, love. I did not personally request a conference with a GameMaster -- again, more pristine reading skills would have concluded this. On the contrary, I merely asked feedback to review their choice at slapping a warning on my account.

[Celephais]

Oh, I would also like to state that you were given a WARNING. What part of that word do you not understand, I don't see why you would think you deserve to have a warning removed when it's literally an advicement to not do it again and you'll be fine, if you don't plan on breaking simu policy it has no effect. If you do plan on breaking simu policy again, then you clearly deserve repremanding. Simple.

[Celephais]

GameMaster Antavian Giantwind
Feedback, Simutronics Corporation


There was no dodging involved, love. I did not personally request a conference with a GameMaster

You wasted feedbacks time by making them deal with your ridiculous request... what part of what I said does not apply?

[Methais]

Celephais' posts

I wouldn't exactly consider it a waste of their time, since they agreed with him and removed the warning. Besides, it's not like they're doing anything else worth a shit I'm sure. Andraste is busy looking for conflicts to stick her nose in, Brauden is looking for more people to ban, Khaladon is busy admiring himself, etc.

Despite all that, this is the exact reason why they have a separate CE team and DEV team. Technically he's not wasting their time, he's giving them a job to do.

And for the record, Antavian has always rocked.

[LordKabaril]

He pays for the game too. If he has an issue that he feel needs to be addressed, let him address it. Who the hell are you to whine about? JD, bug the GMs for me, since I've assisted maybe five times in ten years of GS. Make em earn my money too :thanx:

[AestheticDeath]

I would say that is what feedback is for.. Responding to players. Not coding or something like that which feedback or questions would be pulling them away from.

But I think JD is fucked now. He got the warning removed, but basically was told hes a goner if he does anything else. So he has a tighter rein on him now than he would have if he had just taken the warning.

Anyhow - congrats on getting it removed.

[Kainen]

Personally I didn't see anywhere where they "layed down the law" on Ikaan. Looks more like they only layed it down on you. If you call removing the warning "laying down the law" then I think you are deluding yourself. Personally I agree with AestheticDeath, you basically called your bad behaviour to attention and invited them to do a cavity search anytime it comes to light. Just my opinion.

[SpunGirl]

GM Ikaan is a good guy, I've *never* had a negative dealing with him. I think Feedback pretty much fucked themselves on this one, especially given that you posted the correspondence - now every half-wit jerk-off is going to be writing letters demanding to have warnings removed. Good times.

-K

[Mr. Dallas]

I think it was the right thing to do - it gives the GMs an opportunity to learn also.

D.

[Artha]

Like JD or not, the warning was a pretty bullshit warning. This was a good decision on the senior staff's part.

[Khariz]

I agree that it was a bullshit warning. I'm happy for him.

[ELO]

Like JD or not, the warning was a pretty bullshit warning. This was a good decision on the senior staff's part.

I think it was a terrible decision. Them removing the warning was a slap in Ikaan's face. His supervisors need to give him their full support while he acts within the policy guildelines for disciplining trouble makers. Given Tabor's recent, and not-so-recent past, the warning was more than justified.

You can be sure if my supervisors pulled a stunt like this, it'd be followed up with my two week notice. (Though, it's a little different working in a jail.)

Grow a backbone, Simu.

[Kainen]

Grow a backbone, Simu.

That will never happen.

[Skirmisher]

Now that they have made it clear what will happen, please do continue testing and pushing the GMs.

It will be fascinating to see if they stick to their guns.

[Liberi Fatali]

I would say that is what feedback is for.. Responding to players. Not coding or something like that which feedback or questions would be pulling them away from.

But I think JD is fucked now. He got the warning removed, but basically was told hes a goner if he does anything else. So he has a tighter rein on him now than he would have if he had just taken the warning.

Anyhow - congrats on getting it removed.

Yes, I realised this as well. However, I believe it would be the same even if I hadn't e-mailed feedback -- I'm certain GM-Ikaan left some sort of note that I was speaking disrespectful to him that other GMs could note if I were to get in trouble again.

I wonder how feedback would have responded had I been polite after receiving the warning. Obviously I was a bit irked, though, but I suppose that does not give me the right to be wanker to the GM in question.

[Tsa`ah]

This should be a lesson learned. However, I doubt that's going to happen.

[Methais]

I think it was a terrible decision. Them removing the warning was a slap in Ikaan's face. His supervisors need to give him their full support while he acts within the policy guildelines for disciplining trouble makers. Given Tabor's recent, and not-so-recent past, the warning was more than justified.

You can be sure if my supervisors pulled a stunt like this, it'd be followed up with my two week notice. (Though, it's a little different working in a jail.)

Grow a backbone, Simu.

Yeah, I'm sure Ikaan is cutting his wrists over it and all.

[Liberi Fatali]

GM Ikaan is a good guy, I've *never* had a negative dealing with him. I think Feedback pretty much fucked themselves on this one, especially given that you posted the correspondence - now every half-wit jerk-off is going to be writing letters demanding to have warnings removed. Good times.

-K

I also agree that GM-Ikaan is a brilliant GM. In the thread where the actual log was posted, you can see that he refers to our prior engagements in a lengthy invasion he ran. We had quite a bit of RP going on, which is why I'm thoroughly confused as to his ruling on my slip of vulgarity.

I don't necessarily agree that everyone who receives a warning will try to justify a removal, nor do I believe the common GS player could compose such an argument (or write it with such eloquence, hoho). Regardless, as others have noted, that IS what feedback is there for. In fact, if you type HELP in game, it clearly states to send e-mails to feedback if you have a dispute with a GM -- it goes on to say, "After all, that's what we're here for!"

[Sean of the Thread]

Can we end this cry baby ass thread yet? You sound worse than Seany Digital crying when someone had stolen his coffee can turbo.

[Atlanteax]

I would say that is what feedback is for.. Responding to players. Not coding or something like that which feedback or questions would be pulling them away from.

But I think JD is fucked now. He got the warning removed, but basically was told hes a goner if he does anything else. So he has a tighter rein on him now than he would have if he had just taken the warning.

Anyhow - congrats on getting it removed.


I think it was a terrible decision. Them removing the warning was a slap in Ikaan's face. His supervisors need to give him their full support while he acts within the policy guildelines for disciplining trouble makers. Given Tabor's recent, and not-so-recent past, the warning was more than justified.

You can be sure if my supervisors pulled a stunt like this, it'd be followed up with my two week notice. (Though, it's a little different working in a jail.)

Grow a backbone, Simu.

One can only hope that JD is dealt with as harshly as he deserve to be for his often repeated "high maintance character" antics.

I echo ELO's desire for a backbone, where Feedback's response should had stated something like "In light of your consistent attitude of disrespect and lack of courtesy towards our staff, we decline to remove your Warning. Please be advised that such behavior is not condoned in the game, and further incidents will result in the removal of your account."

[Liberi Fatali]

One can only hope that JD is dealt with as harshly as he deserve to be for his often repeated "high maintance character" antics.

I echo ELO's desire for a backbone, where Feedback's response should had stated something like "In light of your consistent attitude of disrespect and lack of courtesy towards our staff, we decline to remove your Warning. Please be advised that such behavior is not condoned in the game, and further incidents will result in the removal of your account."

A bit harsh, no? I merely stated a vulgar term in front of RHETT -- I was not in TSC and swearing in front of new players to the game; I was not encouraging people to swear and follow my lead; I was not killing random, innocent people; I was not abusing mechanics; I simply stated a vulgar word in front of a close friend in a secluded place on Teras.

[Sean of the Thread]

Sooner or later they were bound to get tired of your constant retarded bullshit and lay it down. It appears that you've reached that point.

Now stop being a cry baby cunt and move on.

[Tsa`ah]

Secluded, but not private ... which is really the key.

[Liberi Fatali]

Secluded, but not private ... which is really the key.


True, but there are no 'real' private rooms on Teras.



Now stop being a cry baby cunt and move on.

You continue to impress me with your incompetence. Why would I be CRYING when I'm getting my warning REMOVED? Idiot features.

[Gan]

I think I see a HMC label eminent. I'd be careful from this point on JD. It seems like its going to be a little downhill from now on, only on the wrong side of the hill.

Perhaps a little more discretion in your gameplay might be warranted. At least with regards to walking the fine edge of the rules and how the GM's exercise their right to the discretionary authority that they wield.

[Sean of the Thread]

Awaiting proof of said removal.

[Liberi Fatali]

Awaiting proof of said removal.

Hahahahahahahaha.

YOU THINK I MADE THIS UP?

My, my, that's the most amusing thing I've ever read from you. You certainly have out-done yourself.

ROFL @ awaiting proof.

Cor feckin' blimey, you're retarded.

[Atlanteax]

A bit harsh, no? I merely stated a vulgar term in front of RHETT -- I was not in TSC and swearing in front of new players to the game; I was not encouraging people to swear and follow my lead; I was not killing random, innocent people; I was not abusing mechanics; I simply stated a vulgar word in front of a close friend in a secluded place on Teras.

You are looking at it, from the perspective of this incident only.

You are conviently neglecting to factor in all your past antagonistic behavior.

You seriously cannot see how negative your history of interaction with Staff (and other players) when you put together all such incidents?

Oh wait, you probably only recall the "positive moments".

[Sean of the Thread]

At your convenience.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/Cry-Baby.gif

[Atlanteax]

Awaiting proof of said removal.


Hahahahahahahaha.

YOU THINK I MADE THIS UP?

My, my, that's the most amusing thing I've ever read from you. You certainly have out-done yourself.

ROFL @ awaiting proof.

Cor feckin' blimey, you're retarded.

He wants to see your log with the GM (recall how you are to be placed in the referral queue?) where your Warning is to be removed.

*That* "proof".

[Sean of the Thread]

Bingo.

[Makkah]

Tabor's threads always turn out fucking money. People find the most awesome ways to show their asses in them... it's great.

[Ignot]

I think the GM's have a stick up their ass and are to harsh at times. It's just a game. Im glad you got it removed. Fuckem.

[Liberi Fatali]

He wants to see your log with the GM (recall how you are to be placed in the referral queue?) where your Warning is to be removed.

*That* "proof".

Wow, thank you for elaborating with pristine clarity as to what his desires were -- I sure as hell couldn't deduce that from his ignorant style of posting.

I certainly will post the log. I still, however, find it overly obtuse of him to call me a 'cry baby' (no tears were shed in this thread; the OTHER thread, yes) and then realise that they are removing my warning. This makes him look even more naive than he already appears.

[Liberi Fatali]

You are looking at it, from the perspective of this incident only.

You are conviently neglecting to factor in all your past antagonistic behavior.

You seriously cannot see how negative your history of interaction with Staff (and other players) when you put together all such incidents?

Oh wait, you probably only recall the "positive moments".

I was not neglecting any factors. Despite your (and others) negative perception of my character, the truth remains that I have not received a single warning since 2000. That's seven years, Atlanteax. If I was such a terrible character, they sure as hell would have removed me from the game ages ago, no?

Just because I post logs of 'negative' (in your view) interactions with other players and sometimes GMs does not deem me as having antagonistic behaviour.

Besides, I thought the general perceived notion of Jenovadeath was that he was a powerhunter. How do I have time to interact and cause SO much hassle to the staff and everyone I come in contact with if all I'm doing is hunting?

Again, if I was as nefarious as you make me out to be, I would have been banned long ago.

[Parkbandit]

A bit harsh, no? I merely stated a vulgar term in front of RHETT -- I was not in TSC and swearing in front of new players to the game; I was not encouraging people to swear and follow my lead; I was not killing random, innocent people; I was not abusing mechanics; I simply stated a vulgar word in front of a close friend in a secluded place on Teras.

Your past retardation in the game should be sufficient enough to ban you from the game.

You are a dicksplash and Simutronics is so worried about your $15 bucks a month that theywon't do shit about you.

[Parkbandit]

Tabor's threads always turn out fucking money. People find the most awesome ways to show their asses in them... it's great.


Tabor's threads always turn out fucking money. Some people find the most awesome ways to show they will suck his dick and defend him no matter what... it's great.

[Liberi Fatali]

Your past retardation in the game should be sufficient enough to ban you from the game.

You are a dicksplash and Simutronics is so worried about your $15 bucks a month that theywon't do shit about you.

lol @ dicksplash

You sir, are a clever-trousers.

[Nieninque]

He plaguarised that insult.

[Doyle Hargraves]

You are looking at it, from the perspective of this incident only.

You are conviently neglecting to factor in all your past antagonistic behavior.

You seriously cannot see how negative your history of interaction with Staff (and other players) when you put together all such incidents?

Oh wait, you probably only recall the "positive moments".

Are you still a Gamehost?

Also, JD seems to have good luck with feedback. Didn't you spam them 5728904527 times a day over that gremlin slayer sword or some e-wave sword or something after it got lost, and they ended up creating a new one for you eventually? If I remember right, the original was still floating around somewhere too.

[Sean of the Thread]

Tabor's threads always turn out fucking money. People find the most awesome ways to show their asses in them... it's great.

If you mean Tabor turns out to be the ass then I concur. Pure comedy gold.

[Sean of the Thread]

I still, however, find it overly obtuse of him to call me a 'cry baby' (no tears were shed in this thread;.

You're one of the biggest GS wahhh wahh cry babies that I can think of.

IF you are able to provide one other on these boards that can trump yourself .... I'll gladly retract.

As it stands a vote will surely show that in the very least there is a perception of you being the cry baby douche of GS.

[Landrion]

You're one of the biggest GS wahhh wahh cry babies that I can think of.

IF you are able to provide one other on these boards that can trump yourself .... I'll gladly retract.

As it stands a vote will surely show that in the very least there is a perception of you being the cry baby douche of GS.

She who must not be named?

Although in all fairness, shes not around anymore.

[LeftOverForGood]

I don't necessarily agree that everyone who receives a warning will try to justify a removal, nor do I believe the common GS player could compose such an argument (or write it with such eloquence, hoho).

This makes me laugh.. As if a bunch of BS is eloquent.

[Khariz]

Erm, it was most definitely eloquent.

Bullshit and Eloquence are not mutually exclusive.

[Artha]

If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. Etc.

[Liberi Fatali]

Awaiting proof of said removal.

http://hometown.aol.com/WIL%20WIL%2005/Ireland/warningremoved.JPG

[Khariz]

hahahaha! Never removed a warning before.

I think that proves the eloquence...or something...like...um...the bogusness of the warning.

[Meges]

Grammar...


Meges

[Asha]

You're one of the biggest GS wahhh wahh cry babies that I can think of.

IF you are able to provide one other on these boards that can trump yourself .... I'll gladly retract.

Nodyre.
What do I win?