I thought I moved away from this stupid shit

[Marl]

I thought I was moving away from south Atlanta to get away from the nut jobs such as these

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266310,00.html

which is 10 miles down the road from me...wtf

FYI this is the second time an idiot decided to go play duck hunt on campus kids in the past year..

[Artha]

This is what happens to universities that don't accept Artha.

[Skeeter]

Marcus Vick back for revenge?

[Makkah]

Number keeps rising. Shit's fucked up.

[Skeeter]

apparently the gunman is dead. Asian guy wearing a vest. Anyone heard from Stretch recently? New haircut put him over the edge?

[Artha]

There is that whole UVA vs VTech rivalry to consider.

[Back]

Horrible and depressing. Sounds like he had some heavy-duty automatic firepower.

[Nieninque]

GUNS AR....never mind.

[Stanley Burrell]

That shit is straight up caca balls.

Basically, the gun thing + Edaarin, although nothing can really stop mispent determination.

Go Terapins.

[Back]

More casualties and injuries than Columbine.

[Ilvane]

Considering according to CNN 21 killed plus the shooter, and 20 additional wounded.

That's 42 people..what kind of weapon could he have been carrying that no one noticed this guy walking through campus? How incredibly awful.

Angela

[Artha]

I heard it was a pistol.

[CrystalTears]

That's 42 people..what kind of weapon could he have been carrying that no one noticed this guy walking through campus? How incredibly awful.

What makes you think no one noticed? The school had been panicking since basically 7am.

[Ilvane]

NBC's Pete Williams said two law enforcement officials told him the gunman killed himself. They also said the gunman used two 9-mm handguns during the rampage, Williams reported. He said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was trying to track the weapons.


Wow, I don't know much about guns, how much did this guy have to reload?

Angela

[Marl]

32 dead now

[Marl]

What makes you think no one noticed? The school had been panicking since basically 7am.

Even my kids elementary schools have been in lockdown 10 miles away since 10am

[Celephais]

NBC's Pete Williams said two law enforcement officials told him the gunman killed himself. They also said the gunman used two 9-mm handguns during the rampage, Williams reported. He said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was trying to track the weapons.


Wow, I don't know much about guns, how much did this guy have to reload?

Angela

Legal clips allow for 10 round magazines*, although illegal clips can allow for around 15 rounds depending on the gun. They said he was wearing a vest covered in magazines...

*In some states, I have no idea about there...

[Gan]

NBC's Pete Williams said two law enforcement officials told him the gunman killed himself. They also said the gunman used two 9-mm handguns during the rampage, Williams reported. He said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was trying to track the weapons.


Wow, I don't know much about guns, how much did this guy have to reload?

Angela

Depends on the clip size. Some pistols have capacities to hold up to 13 rounds plus. And clips arent that difficult to load if you carry extras in a jacket pocket or pack of some sort.

This is bad news all the way around. Wonder what pushed him over the edge?

[Marl]

Depends on the clip size. Some pistols have capacities to hold up to 13 rounds plus. And clips arent that difficult to load if you carry extras in a jacket pocket or pack of some sort.

This is bad news all the way around. Wonder what pushed him over the edge?

word is "He was looking for his girlfriend"

[Ilvane]

My god this is so awful.:( I can't believe how bad it is.

Thanks for the explaining on the gun, I have no idea, never even seen one in person, thankfully.

Angela

[TheEschaton]

What's with this week in history? Wasn't Columbine on 4/20? As was Okhlahoma City? As was Waco?

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

Pot makes you paranoid?

[TheEschaton]

Actually, it's also Hitler's birthday, I think I remember reading some justification for the date of Columbine based on that. And OK city was simply done on the anniversary of Waco as a "protest" of gov't intervention.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

Actually, it's also Hitler's birthday, I think I remember reading some justification for the date of Columbine based on that. And OK city was simply done on the anniversary of Waco as a "protest" of gov't intervention.

-TheE-


I still remember how incredibly shocked and horrified I was when the OK city bomb went off. I could feel the vibrations while I was standing in a store shopping, and the next month of my life was horrible while waiting to find out if my best friend from childhood had survived. Unfortunately, she did not. Dental records take a while to utilize, it seems.

[Methais]

That's pretty horrible, but this part made me laugh:


'this is an emergency, everyone stay inside, we're looking for suspicious activity,"

The image of Frank Drebin appeared in my head when I read that for some reason.

[Marl]

I can only get a picture of 5-10 potheads smoking in some courtyard when 10's of 20's cops roll up sirens blazin...look on their face musta been priceles heh

[Krendeli]

I bet global warming caused it.

[Back]

So how does it break down? Lets say he had two 9mm with max clips of 15 rounds each.

31 dead, 24 wounded, 55 shots minimum...

At an accuracy rate of 50%, thats 110 shots fired, thats only a little over 6 clips used.

[Marl]

32 dead 28 wounded--- 60 shots minimum...but Alot more according to some vids I saw on tv

[Gan]

Pot makes you paranoid?

See: Backlash

[Parkbandit]

Legal clips allow for 10 round magazines*, although illegal clips can allow for around 15 rounds depending on the gun. They said he was wearing a vest covered in magazines...

*In some states, I have no idea about there...

I have a 31 round clip of the 9mm variety.

[Parkbandit]

My god this is so awful.:( I can't believe how bad it is.

Thanks for the explaining on the gun, I have no idea, never even seen one in person, thankfully.

Angela
You've never seen a gun in person?

What a sheltered little life you lead.

[Ilvane]

I'm actually thankful.

I've seen the kinds in museums and stuff, historical pieces, but not really guns that people carry around(handguns and the lot)

I'm all set.

Angela

[Parkbandit]

LOL

[Krendeli]

Semi-auto handguns just ain't classy. Gimme a nice revolver.

I <3 my .357 S&W.

[radamanthys]

S&W .357 is a great piece. I wouldn't want a revolver if I was on a rampage, though.

$50 says the anti-2nd amendment talking points start flying faster than any bullets could after this. *sigh*

[Anebriated]

If you take away guns from the innocent the only people left with guns are the criminals. I dont see any major changes happening to the 2nd...

[Stanley Burrell]

Stricter (not wanton) gun and armament laws can prevent illegal sales and at the very least, curb the trickle-down effects from their original owners.

It's been illegal for anyone non-task force to wear bulletproof where I've lived.

[Keller]

S&W .357 is a great piece. I wouldn't want a revolver if I was on a rampage, though.

$50 says the anti-2nd amendment talking points start flying faster than any bullets could after this. *sigh*

Anti-2nd amendment?

Next we're going to have MoveOn proclaiming that the movement to narrow the scope of the second amendment right to bear arms is the "pro-life" movement.

[Marl]

Stricter (not wanton) gun and armament laws can prevent illegal sales and at the very least, curb the trickle-down effects from their original owners.

It's been illegal for anyone non-task force to wear bulletproof where I've lived.

you can buy bulletproof/gasmasks/armor piercing rounds in gun shops all over the place...usually states that allow fireworks too...wierd

[Ilvane]

I hate hearing all the crying of gun owners worrying about gun control, when if they are responsible and honest gun owners they won't have any issue still having a gun in most proposed laws and changes.

Bottom line though, would this have even changed the situation here with this kid? Was he known as a threat to himself or others, and yet still got a gun?

Or was this just an insane man shooting randomly?

Honestly, I don't even think gun control can stop things like this from happening.

Angela

[Back]

The second amendment didn’t help those students.

[Drinin]

What a shitstorm. The shooter got off too easy.

[Marl]

Fucktards like this without a gun would just molotov cocktail the building or slam a plane into it or hell go on a chainsaw weilding rampage or horror...no matter what laws are intact shitheads will still find a way to go nuts. kinda like these guys

:hitwithrock: :hammer: :club: :hang:

[Sean of the Thread]

As PB stated there are large capacity (31 round) mags available. The most common above normal capacity for a 9mm are the 15 rounders however.

9mm are small cartridges and thus why it's common to have higher capacity magazines.

[Marl]

And to top all this off they cancelled my kids kindergarten play tonight AND his t-ball practice...asshat

[Drinin]

I foresee a lengthy email from my school about this at some point tonight. Too bad my conceal/carry isn't in effect on campus, heh.

[Artha]

That's just silly.

[Stanley Burrell]

you can buy bulletproof/gasmasks/armor piercing rounds in gun shops all over the place...usually states that allow fireworks too...wierd

We had an iron-fisted mayor. The fireworks were only an issue in Chinatown, usually.

I mean, friggin' ODB got thrown in the slammer at least one time for wearing bulletproof in a BK show.

And I would think as long as people go to the Home Depot to use gasmasks for cutting sheetrock, etc., that there's not really a good enough reason/case to prevent gasmask sales, er?

Am I badass for owning a painter's mask now? ::struts::?

Besides, who needs gasmasks, bulletproof armor, Roman candles and a BFG-9000 when you have the almighty duct tape?

[Xaerve]

The second amendment didn’t help those students.

A curtain doesn't help a cow either. Your above statement is pointless.

[Gan]

Semi-auto handguns just ain't classy. Gimme a nice revolver.

I <3 my .357 S&W.


A .357 is just classy any way you look at it.

My ankle piece was a Ruger SP101 (snub .357 hammerless). I loved that pistol. I sold it to my step-brother when I got out of law enforcement.

[Mabus]

word is "He was looking for his girlfriend"

All this over a nappy-headed ho? I blame Don Imus!

[Hulkein]

The second amendment didn’t help those students.

You're not allowed to carry concealed on school property (at least in PA.)

A rampage like that anywhere else in Virginia would've been cut short by someone carryin legally, I bet.

This is horrible that it happened. That guy is a piece of shit and I feel for the victims and families. I'm just wondering how he killed that many people without eventually being rushed by a group of people and subdued.

[Liberi Fatali]

You're not allowed to carry concealed on school property (at least in PA.)

A rampage like that anywhere else in Virginia would've been cut short by someone carryin legally, I bet.

This is horrible that it happened. That guy is a piece of shit and I feel for the victims and families. I'm just wondering how he killed that many people without eventually being rushed by a group of people and subdued.

Seriously. I'd have formed a group of students and advanced the flag of Dixie all over that bastard, Civil War style. Of course, you'd probably lose quite a few people with the charge, but eventually you'd be right up in his face to cease his activities -- JUST LIKE THE CIVIL WAR.

[Nieninque]

I can see the headlines now.

STUDENT REVOLT LED BY SUPERTWIG!

[Nieninque]

If you take away guns from the innocent the only people left with guns are the criminals. I dont see any major changes happening to the 2nd...

Funny, but this bloke was innocent until he killed a bunch of people.

[Bobmuhthol]

Man that made absolutely no fucking sense.

[Liberi Fatali]

I can see the headlines now.

STUDENT REVOLT LED BY SUPERTWIG!

Haa. I am completely serious, though. I would definitely have attempted to lead some sort of attack on him -- though, I doubt many people would be willing to rush someone and risk getting shot (as evident by no one doing it there, today).

The stupidity of these shooters amazes me. If you're going to get killed, why the hell would you go out in open public and start opening fire? You're bound to get fucked up sooner or later. If you were to conceal yourself with some high-powered sniping rifle at the top of a building or in a window -- you could easily pick off quite a few students and not even be recognized?! People would have to first find where the shots were being fired from, which would NOT be an easy task with everyone scrambling for safety. By the time someone would realize they were being shot at/sniped and called the cops, you could easily move to a different location and proceed again.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm pretty sure he went into it knowing he would die.

[Liberi Fatali]

I'm pretty sure he went into it knowing he would die.

I know, that's what I was saying. If you're in it to die, are you not also in it to get the most kills possible? If you go out their desperado style, it's only a matter of minutes before the cops are on the scene.

[TheEschaton]

32 seems to be pretty high, for going in all "desperado" style. You couldn't do that sniping at students inside a building.

-TheE-

[Liberi Fatali]

32 seems to be pretty high, for going in all "desperado" style. You couldn't do that sniping at students inside a building.

-TheE-

Yes, I suppose that's true.

I'm certainly glad they don't do this, but I would have assumed that a little strategy and effort would be put into these coup de grace fallouts. Such as those Columbine fucks -- didn't they plant bombs and shit?

[Bobmuhthol]

Their bombs kind of sucked, and I think only 1 actually worked, but yes.

They also had a lower death count, and overall, they did a poor job of mass murder.

[Krendeli]

Their bombs kind of sucked, and I think only 1 actually worked, but yes.

They also had a lower death count, and overall, they did a poor job of mass murder.

Truely spoken by the grand poobah of FMMA. (future mass murderers of america)

[Daniel]

Haa. I am completely serious, though. I would definitely have attempted to lead some sort of attack on him -- though, I doubt many people would be willing to rush someone and risk getting shot (as evident by no one doing it there, today).

The stupidity of these shooters amazes me. If you're going to get killed, why the hell would you go out in open public and start opening fire? You're bound to get fucked up sooner or later. If you were to conceal yourself with some high-powered sniping rifle at the top of a building or in a window -- you could easily pick off quite a few students and not even be recognized?! People would have to first find where the shots were being fired from, which would NOT be an easy task with everyone scrambling for safety. By the time someone would realize they were being shot at/sniped and called the cops, you could easily move to a different location and proceed again.

1. It takes about 5 seconds for even the most open and wide areas to be cleared the fuck out. ESPECIALLY if there are alot of buildings.

2. It's pretty easy to identify and block off someone shooting from a building.

[Back]

You're not allowed to carry concealed on school property (at least in PA.)

A rampage like that anywhere else in Virginia would've been cut short by someone carryin legally, I bet.

This is horrible that it happened. That guy is a piece of shit and I feel for the victims and families. I'm just wondering how he killed that many people without eventually being rushed by a group of people and subdued.

You’re right. Against the law to carry firearms on campus. Its an example of law abiding citizens getting screwed over by one non-law abiding citizen. Its not really a second amendment issue. If it had been an AK-47... that may have been another issue to discuss.

I’m still amazed one man could do so much damage with only 2 9mm pistols. Not even Tequila from Hard Boiled did that much damage in the opening tea room scene. Then again the students were unarmed in closed quarters.

We can try and come up with the most equal and fair laws, educate people about the issues, use security as a tool thats unintrusive... but one man out of his fucking mind can get around it all and do a lot a damage.

I’m starting to agree with Latrin in that we need to focus on what causes people to do this and nip that in the bud. Minority Report? No, thats not how I see it, but I will agree that it will be a long time before we are able to sort that one out.

[Marl]

Psych test at age of 13 they fail BOOM off to antartica to live with the penguins

[Anebriated]

Funny, but this bloke was innocent until he killed a bunch of people.

Pretty much. Thats why they cant do anything about the law, theres just no way of knowing until its too late.

[Nieninque]

Pretty much. Thats why they cant do anything about the law, theres just no way of knowing until its too late.

Funny how you can have two people with completely polarised views, aint it?

[Ignot]

Psych test at age of 13 they fail BOOM off to antartica to live with the penguins

poor penguins.

[Marl]

poor penguins.

Just think after 5 or so yrs alone out there those penguins will be the crazies bitches...mmmmm penguin love!

[Jolena]

I would imagine the majority of the reason why this man was able to kill so many was due to the close quarters of the classrooms he entered. The majority (ie. 1 in the dorms, 1 injured in the dorms, and 30 in the engineering building) were killed in one building, and from the eyewitness accounts I've seen live on ABC and CBS coverage interviews, the man simply entered the classrooms and opened fire. Many of the students were climbing out of windows from 2-3 stories up and jumping for safety, but imagine the chaos that ensued when 20+ in each room attempted that. Its assured that some would be shot while climbing out, some were most likely trampled in an attempt to climb out, and others who were too slow or weren't able to get through the mob to the windows were killed. Multiply that by a few rooms and its not so hard to see how so many died.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen/read on the media, the emails about the first shooting in the dorms were not sent out, or at the very least received, until around 9-9:30 am, so most of the students in the engineering building had no idea there was danger. The University staff was under the impression that the dorm shooting was a domestic, and isolated, incident and did not close classes or anything that would have probably prevented, or at the very least helped minimize, the death toll. Don't know that I really blame the University, however, as they go by what information they are given at the time. Though, on a slightly more skeptical/cinical note, I'm rather surprised that given the fact that the culprit of the first shootings wasn't captured, the University didn't go ahead and pull out all stops by shutting down classes until he was found.

The entire thing is just tragic and I feel very badly for the families of those killed, as well as the students that witnessed it and/or were injured.

[Keller]

Beyond my concern for the victims families and those who were injured, I'm very concerned with what will happen "Post 4/16".

First, copy-cats. Every news agency is almost glorifying the killings calling it "the biggest massacre in US history." How many crazy fucks are going to top this now? We don't need to keep record of the "largest massacres" like it's a fucking Guiness Record or something. Don't recognize this fucking douche and his terrible acts. Don't encourage copy-cats.

Second, I'm worried about what will happen to universities. Unlike public schools (edit: read Columbine), universities have "deep pockets" and will take costly precautions to avoid future liability. Will I have to take off my fucking shoes/belt/coat, remove my laptop from my bag, and throw away any liquid before I enter an academic building?

Also, in response to Jolena's concerns regarding why the university didn't take further precautions after the dorm incident, why should they? With hindsight being what it is, at the time it was a judgment call. Do they shut down the campus for what they assumed to be an isolated event? For how long? What part? Should they cancel finals? I don't blame the administration one bit. It is unreasonable to think a jilted lover who shoots his girlfriend and the witness will then become a raging psychopath and shoot up an academic building. It is a VERY remote possibility and does NOT warrant closing down the school.

[Bobmuhthol]

Antietam was the single bloodiest day of battle in American war history; should we not know something like this just for fear that more than 22,000 people will have a massive battle where they all die?

[Hulkein]

Also, in response to Jolena's concerns regarding why the university didn't take further precautions after the dorm incident, why should they? With hindsight being what it is, at the time it was a judgment call. Do they shut down the campus for what they assumed to be an isolated event? For how long? What part? Should they cancel finals? I don't blame the administration one bit. It is unreasonable to think a jilted lover who shoots his girlfriend and the witness will then become a raging psychopath and shoot up an academic building. It is a VERY remote possibility and does NOT warrant closing down the school.

I disagree completely. If someone is armed and loose on campus after already murdering someone, they should absolutely cancel classes until he is in custody.

That's not hindsight being 20/20, it's common sense.

[Sean of the Thread]

Antietam was the single bloodiest day of battle in American war history; should we not know something like this just for fear that more than 22,000 people will have a massive battle where they all die?

Which ironically with today being Emancipation day is one of my main problems with Lincoln.. who had a shit fit that Lee's army wasn't slaughtered.

As if there wasn't enough American blood poured already.

[TheEschaton]

To echo some of Keller's concerns - universities are much more open to outsiders - in fact, lots of people at universities, technically, ARE outsiders...commuters, people taking night classes, people taking a once a week class - all these people aren't regular enough to warrant recognizability, but will we start making sure they all belong here?

I'm at the law school right now in the library. Theoretically, any Joe off the street could come from the busy main street, into the law school, and into the library, and start shooting. Do we start checking IDs at every door? Post a guard at every entrance?

Oh, and the guy chained the front doors shut. That's how he got his kill count.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Wasn't the shooter a student there? Most of the shooters are students at said school. Checking IDs to make sure they're 'allowed' to be there wouldn't do anything.

[Bobmuhthol]

It wouldn't have prevented that particular incident, but there have definitely been a fair share of school shootings by people who weren't students.

[Mistomeer]

I'm at the law school right now in the library. Theoretically, any Joe off the street could come from the busy main street, into the law school, and into the library, and start shooting. Do we start checking IDs at every door? Post a guard at every entrance?

Student ID's could include a prox card used to open classroom doors, but anyone who is determined can and will do what they want.


Oh, and the guy chained the front doors shut. That's how he got his kill count.

-TheE-

Could have just as easily chained the doors at a mall and killed 30.

[Tsa`ah]

Haa. I am completely serious, though. I would definitely have attempted to lead some sort of attack on him -- though, I doubt many people would be willing to rush someone and risk getting shot (as evident by no one doing it there, today).

Once you realized your CS is worthless in the real world, you would act as anyone else unfamiliar with being shot at would ... run and or hide.


The stupidity of these shooters amazes me. If you're going to get killed, why the hell would you go out in open public and start opening fire? You're bound to get fucked up sooner or later. If you were to conceal yourself with some high-powered sniping rifle at the top of a building or in a window -- you could easily pick off quite a few students and not even be recognized?! People would have to first find where the shots were being fired from, which would NOT be an easy task with everyone scrambling for safety. By the time someone would realize they were being shot at/sniped and called the cops, you could easily move to a different location and proceed again.

Maybe, most likely no. Unless the shooter takes time to plan and obtain/build illegal accessories (silencer and something to muzzle flare) ... it wouldn't be that hard to pick out an amateur sniper's location.

Easy to pin down, hard to conceal movement (after all a rifle used for long range accuracy shots is not small), hard to not notice someone behaving erratically and moving in directions everyone else is not.

Moving into a building and chaining an exit shut ... going gangster with a pair of 9s ... like shooting ducks in a barrel as opposed to lining up shots and making each one count ... deer in a field surrounded by hedge rows.

If sniping were the most efficient way to get a body count, well Charles Whitman, John Muhammad Jr and Lee Malvo would have the record spots ... instead we have this guy, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold as the record holders.

Maybe you should limit your thinking in GS terms to GS.

[Keller]

Hulk:

Look at the facts. Dude killed his cheating girlfriend and the RA. It is irrational to then think he would go psychotic on an academic building. If they guy had shot people up indiscriminately to begin with then maybe locking down campus immediately becomes reasonable.

Say they didn't find the dude, do you cancel classes the next day? How about the next? Where do you draw the line?

[Jolena]

I disagree completely. If someone is armed and loose on campus after already murdering someone, they should absolutely cancel classes until he is in custody.

That's not hindsight being 20/20, it's common sense.

Thank you, Hulkein, this was my point entirely. Despite the assumption that the first shooting in the dorms was 'isolated', even if it were - if the shooter who is still considered armed is roaming campus, it absolutely should be shut down until they either A) find him or B) determine another option for the safety of the student body and faculty.

[Jolena]

Hulk:

Look at the facts. Dude killed his cheating girlfriend and the RA. It is irrational to then think he would go psychotic on an academic building. If they guy had shot people up indiscriminately to begin with then maybe locking down campus immediately becomes reasonable.

Say they didn't find the dude, do you cancel classes the next day? How about the next? Where do you draw the line?

No, if they had found 'the dude' then I would not have seen any reason to shut campus down unless for just recovery measures. However, in response to you saying 'It is irrational to think he would go psychotic on an academic building', You are right it is irrational. BUT - that doesn't mean that if you have a man who is pissed off enough to have killed his cheating girlfriend and the RA in an open setting, then runs from the scene, that he is now considered unthreatening to others. The chances of someone who knows nothing about it running into him and being shot out of simple trigger finger nervousness on the part of the shooter is high. And frankly, not a chance that I think is worth taking. Its just common sense to shut down the area until the shooter is caught, not leave it open for countless innocents to accidently 'run into him on his way out' or whatever.

[Keller]

So if OJ had killed other people would you say the LAPD should have shut down Los Angeles? Put everyone on lockdown?

It's a reasonableness standard. I say that's unreasonable. You say it's reasonable.

[Tsa`ah]

Hindsight tells us that shutting down the campus would have been the best course of action ... but I have to agree with Keller.

There was absolutely no reason to think that a man exacting specific revenge would go on an indiscriminate campus wide shooting spree.

If a person walks into a hospital to hunt down specific ER personnel on duty at the time his/her child/spouse/parent/sibling/whatever died ... kills 2-3 people and then walks out of the hospital, is that any reason to evacuate the hospital or all hospitals in the area? Not at all. Hospital officials and the police are going to view it as an isolated incident and start a man hunt.

This is no different.

[Keller]

I also want to know how long you shut down campus?

This dude was obviously a fucking psychopath. The fact that he had all the clips, chains, etc shows that he planned the massacre. What if he evaded the police for 2 days? Would you resume campus activity? If so, what if he then decided to go on his killing spree? Would you still blame the university for resuming activities while a killer was on the lose?

[StrayRogue]

Guns keep us safe.

[Kranar]

It's a reasonableness standard. I say that's unreasonable. You say it's reasonable.


That's a strawman argument. It's funny that you would say that this is about a reasonableness standard but then you present some incredibly unreasonable scenarios that are entirely dissimilar to this one.

All that's at issue here is whether shutting down a university for the day when you know a murder took place with a suspect on the loose is unreasonable. You can argue that shutting it down for a week, or shutting down Los Angeles because of OJ Simpson or bringing up other entirely unrelated scenarios all you want and argue how they are unreasonable... feel free.

But I think most people when they consider this scenario, would agree that if a murderer is on the loose somewhere and has not yet been caught, then that's not somewhere that a level headed, rational person who has an appreciation for their own life would want to be. In such a circumstance, keeping people away from the vicinity of that area is the logical thing to do. The reason why you shut down a university in this circumstance is precisely because you feel the people who normally attend it, would not want to be attending it knowing that two people just got killed by someone who is God knows where at the moment...

Would you go to a university if a murderer killed a fellow student and no one knew where the murderer went to? Would you go to work if a murderer came and killed his wife there and the police haven't yet caught him or even know where he is? If you would, what about most reasonable and level headed people?

This is, as you say... about being reasonable. And the best way to think about what's reasonable is to ask what a reasonable person would do and would expect to be done in a similar circumstance. I doubt many reasonable people would want to be near the vicinity of a murderer on the loose, regardless if it was suspected to be a domestic/targetted murder or not.

[Mabus]

But I think most people when they consider this scenario, would agree that if a murderer is on the loose somewhere and has not yet been caught, then that's not somewhere that a level headed, rational person who has an appreciation for their own life would want to be.

That would call for shutting down most (if not all) major cities in the USA. They all likely have muderers "on the loose". This university has what, 25,000-30,000 students and faculty? That's more people then the 9th biggest city in VA, Fredricksburg.

With rational thought comes acceptance. Not accepting the crime, but that crimes do occur. There are people with severe anti-social behaviors in any large population zone. We could shut down most of the top 100 population zones every time a murderer is on the loose and force people to stay locked in their homes, schools and places of employment, or we could try to continue normally with our lives and allow the legal authorities to do the job they were hired to do.

I know that loss of life, especially of the young, causes outrage and anger. Inevitably a living scapegoat or other point of blame will be sought as a target of these emotions. I do not think the university was malicious or neglectful in the decision that they made with the information they had at the time.

Blame the murderer. The decision to kill was his alone.

[Daniel]

I don't think its out of the ordinary to cancel classes when someone starts gunning down motherfuckers in a school. If for nothing else, then out of respect.

It's one day of CLASS it's not like your grinding to a halt the local economy.

[Mabus]

I don't think its out of the ordinary to cancel classes when someone starts gunning down motherfuckers in a school. If for nothing else, then out of respect.

It's one day of CLASS it's not like your grinding to a halt the local economy.

The original shooting was in a dormitory and was thought to be a crime of passion. It was not in a building with educational classes, as was the second set of shootings.

The school is closed today out of "respect". Faculty (essential personnel) are still required to report (from vt.edu).

here is the official Virginia Tech Timeline from their page: http://198.82.162.61/tragedy/timeline.php

[Daniel]

As I said, even if its a "crime of passion" (Even though he killed an RA, someone not related to this passion). Then there is no way you should have had continued classes later that day for various reasons, safety being one of them.

[CrystalTears]

The error is assuming you knew the guy's intentions from the get-go. It wasn't until much later on that it was found he was there for a purpose... to kill his girlfriend. Until then no one knew what was going on. If a murder occured in a school, there is no reason why the classes couldn't be cancelled for a day.

[Nieninque]

The error is assuming you knew the guy's intentions from the get-go. It wasn't until much later on that it was found he was there for a purpose... to kill his girlfriend. Until then no one knew what was going on. If a murder occured in a school, there is no reason why the classes couldn't be cancelled for a day.

Yeah. And considering:


Virginia Tech's Web site earlier said one shooter was in custody and officials searched for a second shooter as "part of routine police procedure," but during the press conference Monday, police said they believe there was only one shooter.

That at least shows that they were on some level concerned that there may be two at the outset and to a certain extent, in the dark about motives etc.

[Mabus]

If a murder occured in a school, there is no reason why the classes couldn't be cancelled for a day.

It occurred at a dormitory on a campus containing over 35,000 people, not within a classroom. Read the timeline, they did try to inform the students of the incident.

Should every town in the USA with a population of 35,000 shut down every time there is a murder? Should we hold the city government liable, or even negligent, if the murderer then kills others and they didn't lock the town down? As a previous poster said that would be unreasonable.

Finding a target for grief and anger is normal. Targeting the school is an attempt to seek a scapegoat to lay these emotions upon.

Either one would have to prove the school was malicious or negligent in their actions. Prove, not just believe. Anything other then that is just an irrational emotional response to grief, anger or fear on the part of the accuser.

We all know that over the course of the next week or so the media feeding-frenzy will blame everything from the school to violence in videos/games/TV/movies to the availability of guns, the war in Iraq, the death penalty etc. It will then turn back in and focus on itself "Did we cover this right? Could the media have looked at this differently?".

I am not saying that there is not room for valid review of all the matters involved. It is just my belief that it is far to early, with to many facts unknown, to try to place blame on the school.

[Hulkein]

Hulk:

Look at the facts. Dude killed his cheating girlfriend and the RA. It is irrational to then think he would go psychotic on an academic building. If they guy had shot people up indiscriminately to begin with then maybe locking down campus immediately becomes reasonable.

Say they didn't find the dude, do you cancel classes the next day? How about the next? Where do you draw the line?

I don't think it's irrational. When someone murders two people and is still armed, there is a chance he isn't exactly thinking straight. I'm going to cancel class until I know he is either caught or off the campus.

I'll agree that it is irrational to think he'd be loaded with as much ammunition as he was.

[Skirmisher]

The original shooting was in a dormitory and was thought to be a crime of passion. It was not in a building with educational classes, as was the second set of shootings.

The school is closed today out of "respect". Faculty (essential personnel) are still required to report (from vt.edu).

here is the official Virginia Tech Timeline from their page: http://198.82.162.61/tragedy/timeline.php

It doesn't matter much what they "thought" at this point as I'm sure that universities across the country wil soon have a standardized lockdown protocol following any kind of murder situation in the future.

[Daniel]

It's a college. Not a town. It's not the same.

[Hulkein]

Should every town in the USA with a population of 35,000 shut down every time there is a murder? Should we hold the city government liable, or even negligent, if the murderer then kills others and they didn't lock the town down? As a previous poster said that would be unreasonable.

You can't compare towns to a campus. In order to shut down a campus you send an e-mail to all the students via a listserv that has all their e-mail addresses, put signs on the buildings saying classes are cancelled and lock the classroom doors. That isn't possible with towns. Stop comparing the two, it's stupid.

[CrystalTears]

It occurred at a dormitory on a campus containing over 35,000 people, not within a classroom. Read the timeline, they did try to inform the students of the incident.
The dorm is still on campus.


Should every town in the USA with a population of 35,000 shut down every time there is a murder? Should we hold the city government liable, or even negligent, if the murderer then kills others and they didn't lock the town down? As a previous poster said that would be unreasonable. Why do you people insist on comparing a school, regardless of size, to a town? It's a ridiculous comparison.


Finding a target for grief and anger is normal. Targeting the school is an attempt to seek a scapegoat to lay these emotions upon. No, more like just finding the target, in this case, the killer.


Either one would have to prove the school was malicious or negligent in their actions. Prove, not just believe. Anything other then that is just an irrational emotional response to grief, anger or fear on the part of the accuser. I would consider them negligent if I heard that there was a killer loose in the school, even the dorms, and nothing was done to minimize the casualities. It's not a safe environment at that point. Either confirm that the killer is off campus grounds, or keeps the kids safe.


We all know that over the course of the next week or so the media feeding-frenzy will blame everything from the school to violence in videos/games/TV/movies to the availability of guns, the war in Iraq, the death penalty etc. It will then turn back in and focus on itself "Did we cover this right? Could the media have looked at this differently?". I really hate the media in times like this. The news sources were in such a tizzy to get the story out first that they threw information, not realizing that being even slightly off can cause more problems than necessary.


I am not saying that there is not room for valid review of all the matters involved. It is just my belief that it is far to early, with to many facts unknown, to try to place blame on the school. So if there are no facts, why would you err on the side of sorry rather than safe and not shut the school down for a day?

[Artha]

Why do you people insist on comparing a school, regardless of size, to a town? It's a ridiculous comparison.
Have you ever been to a school this size? It practically is a town, with all the amenities you'd expect of any respectable city.

[Back]

Seems to me shutting down for the day would be a reasonable thing to do.

[Tsa`ah]

Hind sight ... 20/20 .. wins every time.

[Mabus]

You can't compare towns to a campus. In order to shut down a campus you send an e-mail to all the students via a listserv that has all their e-mail addresses, put signs on the buildings saying classes are cancelled and lock the classroom doors. That isn't possible with towns. Stop comparing the two, it's stupid.

They sent an email to all students.

And the size of the campus does matter, whether people want to believe so or not.

Are those that say it is not a valid comparison saying that the 25,000-35,000+ people could have all been informed and all the class buildings closed in the 19 minutes from when the email was sent to the students to when the second set of shootings occurred?

In which world?

Even the hour and twenty five minutes from when the leadership team of the university first met to the second set of shootings would not be enough time to shut down a campus that is larger then many cities in the top 100 population list.

Do people honestly believe Bangor Maine, Wheeling West Virginia or Poughkeepsie New York could be totally locked down and all residents informed in an hour and a half? All those cities have comparable (or less) population then V-Tech.

If that belief is held it is unreasonable.

[Tsa`ah]

Shootings occur all the time ... even within the confines of colleges.

2 people were shot in a dorm ... loaded with possible targets. Tell me, what exactly would lead anyone to believe that a rampage would occur after if the shooter wasn't taking people out on his way in or out of the dorm?

How many shooting rampages are conducted by people shortly after shooting 2 specific targets in the US? I'm sure if anyone cares to research it they'll find that this shooting will end up on the only hand you'll be required to use.

The police and the college did everything they could with what they knew and the experience and training they had. Everyone can play college administrator and police chief with what they know in hindsight ... but the fact remains that in the given amount of time NO ONE would have suspected a rampage to occur let alone have the ability to lock down an area with 10's of thousands of people taking up several square miles.

No one suspected a second passenger jet impact on 9-11 ... a general evacuation wasn't ordered on the first impact either. Even if it had been ... there's no way the building could have been emptied in time. Just as ordering a campus lock down would have done little good in the time given.

[CrystalTears]

I'm sorry but I don't like assumptions to be made. "Oh he shot two people, he's all done and leaving the premises now. No worries." when no one even knew if it was one or two people involved in the first place. It's a really dangerous assumption.

In all seriousness, what is the harm is not conducting classes for a day and locking the doors to the classroom buildings? Are you telling me that in two hours they can't lock down the buildings?

[DeV]

Have you ever been to a school this size? It practically is a town, with all the amenities you'd expect of any respectable city.Very true. It's actually a valid comparison by any means.

[Daniel]

The shootings were 2 hours apart. not 19 minutes. They could have reasonably gotten the word out about it in that time frame.

It's not unreasonable to assume that if someone ran up into a major building in a small city and gunned a few people and he was still at large, that business would have ground to a halt as people figured out wtf was going on.

You keep things going when people might have had friends and relatives who were just gunned down @ the same location they are inhabiting.

[DeV]

I'm sorry but I don't like assumptions to be made. You say this and then ask why the entire school was not shut down because they didn't assume that the gunman would go on a second killing rampage.

[CrystalTears]

You say this and then ask why the entire school was not shut down because they didn't assume that the gunman would go on a second killing rampage.
Not when they were saying in the beginning that they weren't sure what was going on and initially believed there were two people involved.

[Tsa`ah]

The shootings were 2 hours apart ... everyone assumes the police and administration had 2 hours to act.

Not even remotely the case.

Keep in mind the the second shootings were a half mile away and he had been in the building for at least 30 minutes before he started blasting.

How exactly do you expect that sort of communication to spread in under 120 minutes while classes are in session?

[DeV]

How exactly do you expect that sort of communication to spread in under 120 minutes while classes are in session?Not only that, I'd like to know where this precendent has been set in the past where an entire University has been shut down because of what was initially believed to have been an isolated act of domestic violence?

I don't have time to research this, but if anyone else does feel free to post the appropriate links and info.

[Ilvane]

I think you have to give the administration of the Virginia a little bit of leeway here. You really think they had a clue this guy was going to turn around and kill 32 people? I'm quite sure they would have done anything to stop it, if they had knew or had any incline that anything this bad would happen.

Angela

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Why do you people insist on comparing a school, regardless of size, to a town? It's a ridiculous comparison.>>

Virginia Tech has about 9,000 students living on campus, including virtually all of the freshman class (5,000), with a student enrollment of over 28,000 (undergrad + grad). There are more people that attend Virginia Tech than live in my entire 3-town district, and it also has more establishments such as restaurants.

[Mabus]

The shootings were 2 hours apart. not 19 minutes. They could have reasonably gotten the word out about it in that time frame.

They did get the word out, by email to all the students.

The 19 minutes was from the time the email was sent to the time of the second shootings (from the timeline at the V-Tech website). It was about an hour and a half total from when the leadership team met to when the second shootings occured.

New from the Virginia Tech Website:

The Virginia Tech Police Department has confirmed the identification of the gunman responsible for the multiple fatalities at Norris Hall on the Virginia Tech campus Monday. Ballistics match at both crime scenes.

The individual has been identified as Cho Seung-Hui, 23. Cho was enrolled as an undergraduate student in his senior year as an English major at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va.

[Artha]

The last time they locked down campus it took 4 hours.

[Bobmuhthol]

Ban immigration.

[CrystalTears]

Fair enough. I didn't realize it took so long to close down the classroom buildings.

[Tsa`ah]

He was already in the building ... it wouldn't have made any difference other than outcries of the administration facilitating the shootings.

[Skeeter]

when a person was killed and another stabbed at the library at my college the entire campus went on lockdown. It happened in the evening, and my school is a bit smaller but they were able to keep a reasonable amount of security until the guy was apprehended.

Oddly similar Asian guy stabbed his cheating gf to death and an innocent bystander who tried to help.

Asian people are clearly insane. Ban Asians?

[TheEschaton]

Don't worry folks, the families of the 30 killed in the academic building will sue VTech, and the courts will decide it!

I say V Tech'll win. Keller's right, it's unreasonable to expect the University to panic and shut everything down.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

They sent an email to all students.

They didn't send the e-mail until 9 or so o'clock, when the second attacks were beginning.

They also didn't send an e-mail canceling classes, just notifying everyone of a murder.


Do people honestly believe Bangor Maine, Wheeling West Virginia or Poughkeepsie New York could be totally locked down and all residents informed in an hour and a half? All those cities have comparable (or less) population then V-Tech.

Those cities don't have everyone on a listserv. They also aren't comparable because you can't just go around locking up people's businesses, whereas you can lock up classroom buildings.

[DeV]

Skeeter, what college was this?

[TheEschaton]

Oh, and by the way, I don't think you all realize that VTech is a research school, and shutting down the University DOES cost a lot in lost profit, mainly from research. It might of been in the back of the admins heads, but even if it was, it doesn't make them irresponsible for keeping the place open.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

Is someone actually blaming the college for what happened? I never blamed them for any of this, I was just questioning why there was a delay in cancelling classes when the shootings began.

[Nieninque]

The last time they locked down campus it took 4 hours.

Lets hope they dont get bomb scares at any point then.

[Bobmuhthol]

Another post that makes absolutely no sense.

[Skeeter]

Skeeter, what college was this?

Wright St. University. I'm guessing somewhere around 96-97

[Mabus]

They didn't send the e-mail until 9 or so o'clock, when the second attacks were beginning.

When should they have sent it out, an hour before the first double murder?

The police arrived on the scene. They secured it. This takes time. They began questioning people. That takes time as well.

They then informed the university administration. The administration had to contact the leadership. The leadership had to meet. The risk had to be assessed.

Thirty five minutes after the leadership met (an hour and fourty five minutes after the 911 call) the police chief briefed them. They made their decision based on that briefing.

With twenty six minutes of the start of that briefing (which likely took more then a minute, no?) calls went out to all buildings, an emergency radio signal was broadcast and emails were sent to all students informing them of what had happened and to watch for suspicious activity.



Those cities don't have everyone on a listserv. They also aren't comparable because you can't just go around locking up people's businesses, whereas you can lock up classroom buildings.

By the time the briefing had taken place the murderer was already in the building where the majority of deaths took place. Locking the building would not have stopped the shootings.

Canceling classes at that time and clearing the buildings would have taken how long in your estimation? An hour, two? By then the second set of murders was over.

If the police chief had briefed them of a continuing threat to the lives of their students what cause would they have to allow the students to remain in danger? If you are putting forth the view that the staff of the university allowed these students to die for some reason then please state the reason.

[Warriorbird]

There's cell notification systems available for relatively cheap for major universities. Tech also has relatively smooth lockdown procedures in place which they used around the start of classes for that guy who shot a cop and was on their campus.

I'm not sure it would've stopped anything...but that's the grounds people are unhappy about.

[Back]

Well, there is also a fire alarm.

Maybe this is all 20/20 hindsight talk but hopefully change for the better comes of it.

[Kranar]

Wow, the number of fallacies and strawman arguments and just taking what people say and twisting it upside down in this thread is golden. I can't wait to see which single line of my post one of you skims over and decides to twist next. Bring it on.

Back on track, the population of the college is irrelevent. The difficulty in shutting down a place is not proportional to its population but instead has to do with the confinement of the area. You can not shutdown a city because it would be virtually impossible, not because of the population but because of the area.

There are stadiums that have a capacity of 100,000+ people, which far outsizes this university and many other towns... guess what, if a murderer killed someone before a soccer game and he wasn't yet apprehended and no one had any details about who the murderer was, what his motive was, how many murderers there were or any details... you better damn believe that canceling the game would be in order until the murderer was caught or was known to be out of the area.

This isn't 20/20 hindsight, it's asking yourself as a rational human being... if you knew a murder took place at a shopping mall and the guy wasn't caught yet, would you go shop there? If the murder was at a stadium, would you go see the game knowing the guy is still out there?

I think most rational level headed people who enjoy living would say "You know what... screw that, I'm going to pass on that for atleast today."

If a murder took place in a city or a town, would you still go do groceries? I think most rational, level headed people would say "Well, murders happen in this country but this won't stop be from doing groceries."

That's what makes shutting down the university reasonable and sensible as opposed to shutting down a city or a country or the universe... Reasonable and sensible people would not attend a university knowing that a murder had just taken place and so the university should respect the wishes of such reasonable people and act on it.

[Kranar]

I also want to comment about this notion that it takes 4 hours to shutdown a university and so shutting it down would have made no difference.

Perhaps shutting down a university in full would take 4 hours, but getting people the hell out of the university and making it clear that a murder took place takes not even one hour. It probably takes 30 minutes tops. Just as setting the fire alarm off takes 20-30 minutes tops to evacuate the university, same deal with a murderer on the loose.

Sure it would take another 3 and a half hours to go through whatever administrative crap is involved and to finalize the whole thing or whatnot... but the part of the lockdown that gets people to safety most certainly does not take 4 hours.

[DeV]

http://media.myfoxdc.com/Documents/vt_map.pdf

[Makkah]

I personally understand what you're saying and all, Kranar. Area makes all the difference in the world in this kinda thing... but it's interesting to note V-Tech is a "cow college." The city's last census population was 39,000 and the university constitutes for almost 3/4ths of that? Now, I know there might be a number of commuters from outlying areas, I just thought that was interesting. Blacksburg is not a very big town at all.

[DeV]

Sure it would take another 3 and a half hours to go through whatever administrative crap is involved and to finalize the whole thing or whatnot... but the part of the lockdown that gets people to safety most certainly does not take 4 hours.A lockdown is just that, a lockdown. You are required to stay indoors and as far out of sight as possible. Getting people to safety is another process altogether, but I do understand the point you're trying to make.

[Souzy]

apparently the gunman is dead. Asian guy wearing a vest. Anyone heard from Stretch recently? New haircut put him over the edge?

I was seriously thinking of the same thing, LMAO. That and that maybe Vinh was related to him. But since he's from S. Korea...that would be a no. :P

[Kranar]

I just don't see how someone in this thread could reasonably tell me with a straight face:

"If a double murder took place at my university and the murderer was still on the loose... I would still attend class."

I know I wouldn't, I wouldn't care if the population of my town is 40000, or 1 million. If the guy is still out there I'm staying home until there's more info on him.

If a random murder took place elsewhere like in a neighbourhood or someones basement or some other place and the guy was on the loose, sure I'd still attend class, but if it happened at the university, count me out for that day.

Am I really alone in this? If so, then so be it.

[Makkah]

Definitely not alone. The point I was trying to make is that it wouldn't be much different having a murderer on the loose in the town or in the college. I think it's safe to say 3 credit hours isn't worth your life.

[Gan]

I just don't see how someone in this thread could reasonably tell me with a straight face:

"If a double murder took place at my university and the murderer was still on the loose... I would still attend class."

I know I wouldn't, I wouldn't care if the population of my town is 40000, or 1 million. If the guy is still out there I'm staying home until there's more info on him.

If a random murder took place elsewhere like in a neighbourhood or someones basement or some other place and the guy was on the loose, sure I'd still attend class, but if it happened at the university, count me out for that day.

Am I really alone in this? If so, then so be it.

You're not alone in this. I would not be there unless it was my job to do so. Being a student at the university and abiding by the attendance expectations of classes does not stipulate a job nor does it warrant a school's expectation for students to disregard reports of a gunman loose on campus with crimes already comitted.

[Stanley Burrell]

That Israeli professor should be given the Medal of Honor, that's some balls.

[DeV]

What he did was a completely selfless act and extremely touching.

[Back]

Presidential Medal of Honor for sure. Or whatever its called.

[Parkbandit]

Oh, and by the way, I don't think you all realize that VTech is a research school, and shutting down the University DOES cost a lot in lost profit, mainly from research. It might of been in the back of the admins heads, but even if it was, it doesn't make them irresponsible for keeping the place open.

-TheE-

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt the President of VT was weighing the profits lost when deciding to lock or not lock down the entire campus.

[Parkbandit]

I can't wait to see which single line of my post one of you skims over and decides to twist next.

Twist... to funny. You really have no taste at all.

Don't disrupt my chocolate ice cream cone with that white boring vanilla.

God... what a fucking loser.

[Daniel]

The real question is why I can't get no damn vanilla chips in the choclate ice cream.

[Parkbandit]

I also want to comment about this notion that it takes 4 hours to shutdown a university and so shutting it down would have made no difference.

Perhaps shutting down a university in full would take 4 hours, but getting people the hell out of the university and making it clear that a murder took place takes not even one hour. It probably takes 30 minutes tops. Just as setting the fire alarm off takes 20-30 minutes tops to evacuate the university, same deal with a murderer on the loose.

Sure it would take another 3 and a half hours to go through whatever administrative crap is involved and to finalize the whole thing or whatnot... but the part of the lockdown that gets people to safety most certainly does not take 4 hours.

you assume an evacuation would get them to safety. "Just pull the fire alarms.. that will do it".

Yea.. it will put people on the street... grouped together. Then it's easy pickings.

Bottom line: Doesn't matter what the campus did or did not.. there is simply no way to stop someone who has already planned the killing spree out weeks in advance from carrying it out. If it happened in the classroom or on the street.. the guy was going to try and take as many people out as he could before turning the gun on himself.

[Parkbandit]

The real question is why I can't get no damn vanilla chips in the choclate ice cream.

Lack of an ice cream maker at home?

Better yet: Butterscotch chips in chocolate ice cream.

[Parkbandit]

I'm extremely shocked and somewhat disappointed that none of you crazy ass liberals blamed the 2nd amendment.. global warming.. or Bush for this tragedy.

[Atlanteax]

That Israeli professor should be given the Medal of Honor, that's some balls.

Way to include details...

[Celephais]

Way to include details...

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Culture/11184.htm

I haven't finished reading it, but the 75 yr old professor jumped between the gunman and his students.

[Alfster]

Bottom line: Doesn't matter what the campus did or did not.. there is simply no way to stop someone who has already planned the killing spree out weeks in advance from carrying it out. If it happened in the classroom or on the street.. the guy was going to try and take as many people out as he could before turning the gun on himself.

This needs to be repeated.

[Parkbandit]

This needs to be repeated.

ok, but not sure why you didn't get it the first time:




Bottom line: Doesn't matter what the campus did or did not.. there is simply no way to stop someone who has already planned the killing spree out weeks in advance from carrying it out. If it happened in the classroom or on the street.. the guy was going to try and take as many people out as he could before turning the gun on himself.

[Sean of the Thread]

That Israeli professor should be given the Medal of Honor, that's some balls.

NO fucking way. Absolutely worthy of merit and a citation. Just not the MOH by a very large margin.

[Liberi Fatali]

NO fucking way. Absolutely worthy of merit and a citation. Just not the MOH by a very large margin.

That link was a bit different than the AOL one I read (and consequently lost). The one I read said he stood in front of the door, holding it shut. Meanwhile, the students jumped out the windows to safety. Then, the shooter got pissed he couldn't open the door with the professor in the way, and capped the shit out of it and him.

Check this link out. Apparently, the killer was in some play-writing class and people SUSPECTED he was going to do something like this. Why the FUCK didn't anyone warn the authorities.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

[Jorddyn]

I'm extremely shocked and somewhat disappointed that none of you crazy ass liberals blamed the 2nd amendment.. global warming.. or Bush for this tragedy.

I'm extremely shocked that you're extremely shocked by us crazy ass liberals in all of these threads.

Jorddyn, blames the person who pulled the trigger

[Sean of the Thread]

It would take some balls to start spouting 2nd Amendment bullshit this early... give it time.

That being said some politicians (Mccain comes to mind) has already said shit like this has no relation to the 2nd.. every American has the right to legally obtain firearms. Including this douchebag.

[DeV]

Absolutely worthy of merit and a citation. Yeah, that.

Isn't the MOH awarded to military personel only?

[Sean of the Thread]

Yeah, that.

Isn't the MOH awarded to military personel only?

Yes.. however there were several civies awarded it long ago before they took that shit back later...


It's reserved for much more valiant deeds than Mr. Professor. (No offense intended but it's just not worthy)

[Celephais]

Check this link out. Apparently, the killer was in some play-writing class and people SUSPECTED he was going to do something like this. Why the FUCK didn't anyone warn the authorities.

I hate when people bring that shit up... if somebody goes on a murder spree people always bring up the "well they were weird... I had a feeling". If you suddenly went on some hate crime killing spree I bet the entirety of the forums would be like "gee, he did seem to be a bit of a racist, I saw that coming", but it's not like we're going to the authorities with it. Anyone can snap, and when they do, the only thing people remember are the aspects of that person that would personify their action.

but yeah...reading the first page of that Richard McBeef play... guy was messed up :-P (not worthy of going to the authorities though)

[Atlanteax]

I hate when people bring that shit up... if somebody goes on a murder spree people always bring up the "well they were weird... I had a feeling". If you suddenly went on some hate crime killing spree I bet the entirety of the forums would be like "gee, he did seem to be a bit of a racist, I saw that coming", but it's not like we're going to the authorities with it. Anyone can snap, and when they do, the only thing people remember are the aspects of that person that would personify their action.

Except this time... the Adminstration was already aware... the English department was already reviewing and was passing on up.

Situation was that he "went berserk" before Admin got around to removing him (if they, presumably, found him to be a threat).

[Liberi Fatali]

I hate when people bring that shit up... if somebody goes on a murder spree people always bring up the "well they were weird... I had a feeling". If you suddenly went on some hate crime killing spree I bet the entirety of the forums would be like "gee, he did seem to be a bit of a racist, I saw that coming", but it's not like we're going to the authorities with it. Anyone can snap, and when they do, the only thing people remember are the aspects of that person that would personify their action.

but yeah...reading the first page of that Richard McBeef play... guy was messed up :-P (not worthy of going to the authorities though)

I agree with your first paragraph.

...It was only after reading his murder-like plays that I think people should have warned someone about him.

[Parkbandit]

Yes.. however there were several civies awarded it long ago before they took that shit back later...


It's reserved for much more valiant deeds than Mr. Professor. (No offense intended but it's just not worthy)

I can't think of anything more valiant than holding a door shut to hold back a killer to allow others to escape.. knowing it will probably mean your life.

[Warriorbird]

Presidential Medal of Freedom'd be totally warranted.

The Medal of Honor suggestion was just not understanding what's given to civilians.

[DeV]

Yes.. however there were several civies awarded it long ago before they took that shit back later...Completely understandable.


It's reserved for much more valiant ordeals than Mr. Professor. (No offense intended but it's just not worthy)This is about as valiant an ordeal as one can get as a private citizen. He exhibited the ultimate and selfless act of bravery and resolve, which resulted in saving the lives of some of his students. I'd say its comparable, on a civilian level, if nothing else.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Celephais

I hate when people bring that shit up... if somebody goes on a murder spree people always bring up the "well they were weird... I had a feeling". If you suddenly went on some hate crime killing spree I bet the entirety of the forums would be like "gee, he did seem to be a bit of a racist, I saw that coming", but it's not like we're going to the authorities with it. Anyone can snap, and when they do, the only thing people remember are the aspects of that person that would personify their action.

You know when someone from GS finally snaps there will be all kinds of stories about how they used to lock themselves in their room all night and play violent online roleplaying games.

[Stanley Burrell]

Except this time... the Adminstration was already aware... the English department was already reviewing and was passing on up.

Situation was that he "went berserk" before Admin got around to removing him (if they, presumably, found him to be a threat).

That's touch and go, especially with a larger university like V-tech.

I mean, in all honesty, what're you going to do? Expel all English majors who write morbid poetry (put a terror color code on the threat of emo-ism/etc?)

The only way to "monitor" shit like this is making sure that we have a pretty decent social awareness on a larger scale than just the media blitzes, and that's still not going to do jackshit for all the quasi-schizos soon to turn schizo break because of X.

I will say, though, that while I might disagree with most clauses of the Patriot Act, a university professor in the land of the highest rate of mental illness, especially one concerned with an introspective humanity core, should keep an open mind and open communication with their students. 'Specially the tenured.

[Sean of the Thread]

Completely understandable.
This is about as valiant an ordeal as one can get as a private citizen. He exhibited the ultimate and selfless act of bravery and resolve, which resulted in saving the lives of some of his students. I'd say its comparable, on a civilian level, if nothing else.

Absolutely.

The award for civies is the Medal of Freedom.

[Sean of the Thread]

You know when someone from GS finally snaps there will be all kinds of stories about how they used to lock themselves in their room all night and play violent online roleplaying games.

Actually when I was at the bar for uhm "lunch" today I was listening to idiots across the island saying "REMEMBER THE DUNGEON AND DRAGONS CULTS? "

I thought of Zirth and Warclaidhm.

[Daniel]

Lack of an ice cream maker at home?

Better yet: Butterscotch chips in chocolate ice cream.

That's bullshit.

Racist motherfucker, why can't I get no Vanilla chips? They too good for some choclate ice cream?

[Parkbandit]

You know when someone from GS finally snaps there will be all kinds of stories about how they used to lock themselves in their room all night and play violent online roleplaying games.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/WarclaidhmPic-4.jpg

[Parkbandit]

That's bullshit.

Racist motherfucker, why can't I get no Vanilla chips? They too good for some choclate ice cream?


Baby steps... you aren't ready for pure white vanilla chips yet. Start with milk chocolate.. then peanut butter.. then butterscotch. Once I see how you handle that, we'll talk about old fashion vanilla and finally vanilla. If you handle them... we might even be able to talk about white chocolate chips.

[Back]

Its much more likely he played WoW.

[Parkbandit]

Its much more likely he played WoW.

Because he was from S. Korea?

You gold farmer hater.

[Back]

Racist. Because WoW has 8 million subscribers so if he was playing any on-line game chances are it was it.

[Bobmuhthol]

8 million? That's it?

[Ignot]

And all Asians play video games. That's fact.

[Skeeter]

when they're not doing math or crying about having a small wee-wee.

[Ignot]

right, or making their cars look like Fast and Furious

[Methais]

A friend of mine brought up an interesting point last night:

Xeniphite1: two kids with 2 semis and 2 shotguns
Xeniphite1: took out 12 people in columbine
Xeniphite1: now a single korean kid with a glock
Xeniphite1: takes out 32
Xeniphite1: It's one guy with less firepower taking out twice as many
Xeniphite1: 133t CS SKILLZ
Xeniphite1: PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

On a side note, did anyone read the plays the guy wrote? Richard McBeef and Mr. Brownstone? I fail to see what was so twisted and disturbing about them like the media is saying.

[Skeeter]

I wonder if his name is FPS Doug.

I bet he used a knife to run accross campus.

[CrystalTears]

On a side note, did anyone read the plays the guy wrote? Richard McBeef and Mr. Brownstone? I fail to see what was so twisted and disturbing about them like the media is saying.
Yes they had violence, but seeing as how they were for a playwriting class, I don't see the relevance unless every single play he submitted was in the same fashion. If it was just free writing, so what? Does that mean that any minute Quentin Tarantino will start shooting up Hollywood because he enjoys violent movies?

Besides, I'm sure everyone has a streak of crazy or pissed off in them, it's just that most are better at containing that than some. Anyone who went on a killing spree would have someone they "knew" finding things that would ultimately lead to their's demise. I don't think writing murderous plays or being a loner is a clear indication of future mass killings, but perhaps making bombs in the basement and joining Hitler youth groups is.

I've also heard that Jack Thompson is saying this kid was probably playing games. Good ole Jack, never missing a beat. Dickhead.

[Methais]

Considering that Jack Thompson is pretty much the laughing stock of everything unless you're Hillary Clinton, who is also the laughing stock of everything, I wouldn't worry too much about what he has to say.

I hope a gamer murders him someday with a flamethrower while helling HADOKEN!

[Kranar]

I thought his screenplays were dull.

The media made it seem like the plays would be really creepy and eerie, but I was very unimpressed.

[Artha]

His screenplays had really bad grammar for an English major, especially one at a decent school like Tech.

[CrystalTears]

His screenplays had really bad grammar for an English major, especially one at a decent school like Tech.
Very true, they were pretty bad. Rather unimaginative too.

[Methais]

I think his classmate that posted the plays and was talking about "We thought he was a school shooter the entire time omg omg omg omg omg!" is full of shit and looking for attention.

[Warriorbird]

I think his stalking complaints and mental health issues are far more valid to take note of.

[Stanley Burrell]

right, or making their cars rook rike Frast and Frurious

Fixed.

[Atlanteax]

He sent a "multi-media" package to NBC...

This includes his rants
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246

Pictures of him with guns and knives
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5114929/?GT1=9246

Video of him ranting
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=925BC281-CE20-439E-9682-8CC58066B2BF&t=c3557&f=06/64&p=hotvideo_m_vatech&fg=&GT1=9246

[TheEschaton]

I'm sorry, this guy wins. What he wins, I'm still unsure about. But having a media package of your psychoticness with statements like "You could of prevented this, but now the blood is on your hands" is amazing. Not so sure if it's awesome-amazing, or sickeningly-amazing.

-TheE-

[Kranar]

He wins in that he has made a complete fool of the media.

[Gan]

He wins in that he has made a complete fool of the media.

We can definately say that its not the first time this has happened. ;)

(Dewey wins!)

[Atlanteax]

He wins in that he has made a complete fool of the media.

This is not difficult.

The media is made a fool of on a regular basis... just about daily, I'd say.

[Marl]

And just think some nutjob somewhere is already planning to out-do this guy.
"32 casualties + a media package pfft, I goin for 100 and a head mounted video tape of it all!!!!"

[Stanley Burrell]

He wasn't psychotic.

[Marl]

He wasn't psychotic.

???? Anyone who can do something like this is disturbed in some way or other and is therefore classified by me as a nutjob

[Stanley Burrell]

???? Anyone who can do something like this is disturbed in some way or other and is therefore classified by me as a nutjob

Nutjob for sure, but the media sign-off on the above MSNBC was dubbed as his suffering from psychopathy.

Psychopathy makes you think the devil inhabits the soul of a dog and tells you to kill people or be killed.

A schizophrenic break does not have the over-elaborate process of ranting like a nutjob, sure, against the pangs of rich society as this emo bitch did and then go purchase a $600 dollar piece of metal and high def' martyrdom materials to record someone with a non-psychotic personality disorder.

While I'm also pissed off today, I don't really know why, but boy howdy I am angry, or at least less sleeped, I h8 the fact that that Axis II of the DSM is being lumped into the mood disorder categories because people can't have coveted buproprion.

[Marl]

Yep I agree he was a nutjob, not psycotic though, and btw I am pissed today from lack of sleep

Fixed your last post for ya :up:

[TheEschaton]

Psychotic behavior does not include making a premeditated speech to shift blame of his actions on other people.

-TheE-

[Stanley Burrell]

Psychotic behavior does not include making a premeditated speech to shift blame of his actions on other people.

-TheE-

What's weird is crim 101 popped into my mind before abby.

[Stanley Burrell]

Fixed your last post for ya :up:

An iguana's circadian rhythm kicking it at 5:20 in the morning and someone's being the highest point of easily climbable/scratchable tree-resemblance in the room will do that to a fellow :coffee:

[Gan]

Psychotic behavior does not include making a premeditated speech to shift blame of his actions on other people.

-TheE-


Thats more sociopathic.

[Atlanteax]

If Charlie Brown was Cho...