Officials Crosspost - Combat Maneuver Review

[Landrion]

GS4-Coase

We have recently conducted a full review of the Combat Maneuver List (CML) system and have made numerous changes to the various maneuvers. Below is a list of each maneuver and the changes we have made to it. All these changes will go live on Monday, April 9.

Due to the volume and significance of some of these changes, we are offering a special CML fixskills option. Starting April 9, all players will have access to one use of the new CMAN FIXSKILLS command. This command will instantaneously migrate all unlearned CMP that the player may have. Players are free to exercise this option at any time between April 9 and May 20, when the option to use this command expires.

Note: use of #/#/#/#/# indicates a references to the costs or benefits of ranks 1/2/3/4/5 of the respective maneuver.

Combat Movement

When activated, this maneuver will now be displayed in Stormfront's active spell window and the SPELL ACTIVE command.




Combat Focus

When activated, this maneuver will now be displayed in Stormfront's active spell window and the SPELL ACTIVE command.




Combat Mastery

The CMP cost for learning this maneuver has been reduced from 4/6 to 2/4.



Quickstrike

The AS (attack strength) penalty for using this maneuver has been reduced from -20/-15/-15/-10/-10 to -20/-15/-10/-5/0. The base/minimum stamina cost for using this maneuver has been reduced from 12 to 8 and the maximum stamina cost has been capped at 25. Weapon weight is no longer a factor in the stamina cost of this maneuver.



Shadow Mastery

A cooldown period of five minutes has been added to this maneuver. If Shadow Mastery is refereshed or reactivated during this period, its stamina cost increases to 60. Also, when activated, this maneuver (and its cooldown period) will now be displayed in Stormfront's active spell window and the SPELL ACTIVE command.




Bearhug

No changes.




Dirtkick

A bug in the determination of the roundtime penalty for the target of this maneuver has been fixed. Previously, targets were receiving up to 15 seconds of RT instead of the intended maximum of 6 seconds. However, the minimum and average durations of the non-RT effects of this maneuver have been increased. In addition to its existing effects, Dirtkick will now also reduce its victim's chance to Evade, Block, and Parry (EBP) incoming attacks by 15%/20%/25%/30%/35%.




Shield Bash

The results of this maneuver have been tied much more heavily to the endroll result. Previously, one could succeed by large margin of success with this maneuver and only deal minor damage, or only succeed by a small margin and deal critical damage. This degree of randomness has been significantly reduced, so that the result of a successful shield bash should now be much more predictable.



Shield Charge

As with Shield Bash, the results of this maneuver have been tied much more heavily to the endroll result. The chance for a fumble (bad recovery) after a successful Shield Charge has been removed. Instead, fumbles will start at a -50 or lower end result instead of the previous -100 end result.




Twin Hammerfists

The minimum RT for executing this maneuver has been reduced to 4 seconds from 5 seconds. The stamina cost for this maneuver has been reduced from 10/12/15/15/15 to 7/7/9/12/12. Also, the attacker's weapon/arm armor will be given a chance to flare.




Mighty Blow

The RT penalty for using this maneuver has been reduced to a flat +1 second RT for all ranks. The base stamina cost for this maneuver has been reduced from 30 to 25 and the additional stamina penalty for using two-handed or two-weapon attacks has been reduced from +10 to +5.




Sunder Shield

The Mighty Blow prerequisite for this maneuver has been reduced from 2 ranks to 1 rank.




Disarm Weapon

No changes.




Sweep

No changes.




Feint

The maximum stance change caused by this maneuver has been increased from 50% to 100%. However, attempting a feint against a target that is already under the effect of a previous feint will now automatically fail.




Hamstring

The minimum RT for executing this maneuver has been reduced to 3 seconds from 5 seconds.




Headbutt

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb.

Tackle

No changes.




Haymaker

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb. On barehanded attacks, the attacker's arm armor is now given a chance to flare.




Charge

As with Shield Bash and Shield Charge, the results of this maneuver have been tied much more heavily to the endroll result. The chance for a fumble (bad recovery) after a successful Charge has been removed. Instead, fumbles will start at a -50 end result instead of the previous -100 end result.




Precision

No changes.




Garrote

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb.




Subdue

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb. The stamina cost for this maneuver has been reduced from 15/18/21/25/30 to 14/16/18/20/20.




Stun Maneuvers

No changes.




Cheapshots

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb. This maneuver has been fixed to only prevent Cheapshot use on hit locations with plate coverage, as opposed to the previous plate or armor accessory coverage immunities.




Groinkick

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb. In addition, the attacker's leg armor is now given a chance to flare.




Subdual Strike

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb.




Silent Strike

Overall success rates for this maneuver have been slightly increased. The increase in success rates should be most noticeable for players with less than 5 ranks in Silent Strike.




Berserk

No changes.




Weapon Specialization

No changes.




Multifire

No changes.




Spin Attack

The base/minimum stamina cost for using this maneuver has been reduced from 12 to 8 and the maximum stamina cost has been capped at 20. Weapon weight is no longer a factor in the stamina cost of this maneuver.




Side by Side

No changes.




Sucker Punch

This maneuver has been updated to use the revamped height system already present in the AMBUSH verb. The stamina cost for this maneuver has been reduced from 6/8/10/12/12 to 3/5/7/7/7. This maneuver will now always result in stun (if the target is stunnable) on any success. As well, barehanded attacks will now give the attacker's arm armor a chance to flare.




Crowd Press

Weapons with a base weapon speed of 3 or less will now see benefits from use with this maneuver (as opposed to the previous cutoff limit of 2 or less).




Coup de Grace

The stamina cost for this maneuver has been reduced from 20/25/30/35/35 to 15/20/25/30/30. The AS boost from a successful coup de grace has been increased from 30 seconds to 90 seconds. The average magnitude of the AS boost has also been increased.




Weapon Bonding

No changes.




Combat Mobility

No changes.




Combat Toughness

This maneuver's boost to maximum hit points (HP) has been changed from a temporary activated boost to a permanent passive boost. As such, this maneuver's CMP cost has been increased from 4/6/8 to 6/8/10.




Truehand

The base/minimum stamina cost for using this maneuver has been reduced from 12 to 10. Weapon weight is no longer a factor in the stamina cost of this maneuver. In addition, instead of a growing stamina penalty for weapons with a base weapon speed above 5, the stamina penalty per second of base weapon speed remains a constant +1 per second.





Bullrush

No changes.





Surge of Strength

It has been our observation that many players are able to constantly keep this maneuver up for the entire duration of their hunting time. The ability to keep this maneuver up constantly without significant drawbacks was never the design intent. As such, this maneuver has been significantly redesigned. The new Surge of Strength is as follows:

Skill Name: Surge of Strength
Mnemonic: surge
Hostile: No
Stamina Cost: 30, with a cooldown period during which the reactivation cost doubles to 60. At Rank 1, the cooldown period is 5 minutes, Rank 2 is 4 minutes, Rank 3 is 3 minutes, Rank 2 is 2.5 minutes, and Rank 1 is 2 minutes.
Other Requirements: None.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
*None
CMP Cost:
*Rank 1: (Squares) 2 (Semis) 3
*Rank 2: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6
*Rank 3: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9
*Rank 4: (Squares) 8 (Semis) 12
*Rank 5: (Squares) 10 (Semis) 15
Description: Increases your Strength Bonus by a base amount of 6 points, plus an additional 2 points per rank, for 90 seconds (refreshable).

Also, when activated, this maneuver (and its cooldown period) will now be displayed in Stormfront's active spell window and the SPELL ACTIVE command.




Staggering Blow

The chance to knock the target into an adjacent room has been significantly increased.




Trip

The stamina cost for this maneuver has been reduced from 10/10/12/15/15 to 10/10/10/12/12.




Parry Mastery

No changes.




Block Mastery

No changes.




Cutthroat

The attacker's weapon will now be given a chance to flare.




Coase

This message was originally posted in Hunting and Combat, Combat Maneuvers Discussion. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=4&topic=4&message=10041

[Latrinsorm]

Surge got JACKED UP.

Shadowmastery, lol.

Sbash/scharge/charge, about time.

Feint I'll have to look into.

Coup, qstrike, and sblow look better.

All in all, Coase is apparently done playing. FTW.

[Landrion]

Apologies for the formatting, that is how Coase himself posted it. Ill go in and edit some line breaks or something.

<There, thats a little better>

[Back]

sbash was already pretty cool. Looks like it got better.

[StrayRogue]

They've fucked up Shadow Mastery.

Not sure on the changes to Surge. Nice additions to subdue, coup and toughness though.

[The Ponzzz]

The changes broke thrown with sruge and smastery.

[Tea & Strumpets]

They're still great at fucking up over there. Nice nerfs to shadow mastery, feint, and surge of strength.

[ELO]

Fuck this. The only two maneuvers I used were smastery and surge.

Edited to add: They're sacrificing "fun" for "balance".

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, surge got fuckered. Oh well here's to giving squares unique spell-like abilities!

[Dropped_In]

Stacking feint was a bitch and a half of cheapness anyways. Too bad warcries still stack.
Don't know why they nerfed ssurge or shadow mastery.
Everything else looks ok.

[Landrion]

Yeah the surge thing fucks me pretty royal too. I was running it constantly. I guess its nice not to have to feint so much now. Plus the savings on some of the other ones like truehand, spinattack and quickstrike will make me more likely to use them now.

[mgoddess]

They royally jacked/jipped/nerfed Surge, and it blows nuts...

Other then the fuck-up with Surge though, I'm fairly happy with how they "balanced" the list out. (I have a feeling if I used SMastery, I'd probably be a bit pissed about that, though.)

[StrayRogue]

In essence, they fucked rogues big time.

[Asha]

Surge and smastery are now fucked. That is horrific for any young rogue.

[Asha]

Fuck this. The only two maneuvers I used were smastery and surge.

Edited to add: They're sacrificing "fun" for "balance".

Absolutely says it all.
Typical Simu BS.

[Anebriated]

So where should i be focusing my cmans now as a warrior? Dont think ill keep surge as id rather rely on a constant AS rather than spike damage. Guess ill pick up quickstrike and feint(until i get enough ranks in tricks anyway) or something else to put mobs in rt...

[Drew]

Smastery is still acceptable, especially for my ranger, stamina recharges so fast that 60 isn't a killer amount. At earlier levels this will probably be more of an issue.

[Asha]

Still a young rogue who relies on their hiding (some do at low levels) will be hurting from this. It's not an improvement for those it's simply an addition of a few pains.
Wonderful.

[Drew]

Well, to be fair, a ton of maneuvers were improved.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. I'd be okay if they hadn't subtracted from Surge's total bonus...and if Smastery's cooldown period worked like Surge's.

[mgoddess]

Eh. I'd be okay if they hadn't subtracted from Surge's total bonus...and if Smastery's cooldown period worked like Surge's.

Exactly. I'm fine with Surge's cooldown period. It's that +4 that they subtracted that I'm pissed about... makes half of Surge useless to the one character that actually was depending on it.

[TheEschaton]

Ummm, does the 2 minute cooldown start when Surge is activated, or when it drops?

Because 30 seconds cooldown at rank 5 doesn't seem that bad. Judging from the responses, I guess it's the latter?

-TheE-

[Danical]

I think the nerf to surge had been coming for a long time.

Simu has a hard time releasing enhancive items that give more than a +20 Stat, let alone Bonus, and it was easy to keep surge up constantly.

Shadow Mastery though . . . didn't really see that one coming. Simu should get to the root of the matter and re-evaluate the hiding skill instead.

[Belnia]

I'm quite pleased with Combat Toughness becoming a permanant passive when trained. That's a major win.

All the manuevers that now have a chance to flare from reactive armor will definately make reactive armor more desirable. Cutthroat flare chance, can you say feras dagger?

All in all, I think Surge had this coming for a long time, but I don't understand why Shadow Mastery got hit so hard.

[Drew]

I've changed my view on smastery for rangers, it's really over the top when you consider that rangers have to use 50 levels of CM points to master it.


I can't see how anyone who used surge didn't see this coming though.

[Latrinsorm]

Oh no my particular maneuver was downtweaked SIMU SUCKS NERF FUCKED BROKEN RUINED THE GAME.

[Paradii]

Well, at least they let us unlearn the cman's instantly. Now I get to decide what to do with all my ranks i had in smastery...

[AestheticDeath]

So whats the permanent passive thing with Toughness? I never used it to begin with.

This mean that before the change, it was Add X HP to your total, and once it was gone, it was gone unless you refreshed? And now, it will raise your max by X, and you can heal back to that total while its active?

Or it now means that say a giant can have a permanent increase to HP over 235?

[AestheticDeath]

And.. my halfling archer just went down the drain with the surge change. No way I am gonna try to bum strength every hunt.

Good thing I wasn't very far along with him.

[Bobmuhthol]

Wow those changes are fucking retarded.

[RichardCranium]

Wow those changes are fucking retarded.

You should see all the knob slobbing going on over on the officials.

[Fallen]

No more feint locking. Rogues can now Cutthroat with a feras weapon, though, making them a lot harder to tease about getting nerfed.

[Bobmuhthol]

Stamina Cost: 30, with a cooldown period during which the reactivation cost doubles to 60. At Rank 1, the cooldown period is 5 minutes, Rank 2 is 4 minutes, Rank 3 is 3 minutes, Rank 2 is 2.5 minutes, and Rank 1 is 2 minutes.

I don't quite understand this, especially with Simu's backwards way of rewarding people for having less ranks. The cooldown I assume goes down per rank, so is the 2.5 minute cooldown supposed to correspond with rank 4, and 2 minutes with rank 5? It should be pretty obvious but I can see Simu saying, "Well the cooldown should be lower if you have less ranks because you don't get as much of a bonus LOL!"

[Fallen]

I believe that was already stated as a typo by the GMs.

[Bobmuhthol]

I don't read the officials, though, so I don't know which way it's supposed to be.

And wait a minute, WTF, you can use it while it's in cooldown you just have to spend more stamina??? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[Fallen]

Reverse of that. 2 mins at rank 5.

[Bobmuhthol]

Thanks!

[Stanley Burrell]

That is pretty strange since Surge of Strength's ability to stack properly with class and item-specific enhancives is still rather fucked and unattended -- I had three long, tedious queues turned referral only to have GMs create roltons for me before they asked me if I didn't mind having more procrastination thrown in the mix.

Let us also applaud subdual strike for working on shorter and taller kiramon, now.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. My Warrior'll be just fine. I'm seriously reconsidering even playing my Rogue.

[LMingrone]

Time to turn my throwing gnome rogue into another lockpicking zombie.

[Warriorbird]

"Oh no my particular maneuver was downtweaked SIMU SUCKS NERF FUCKED BROKEN RUINED THE GAME.
-Latrin"

You, like the player of Eugenides et al, are one of those I played a square with no guild skills, no DFredux, no combat maneuvers, and liked it type of people. There's clearly no room for you in Simutronics except as an SGM in charge of "game balance."

You are not everybody. The hate is lame.

[Bobmuhthol]

... are you retarded?

[Asha]

... are you retarded?

x2

[Stunseed]

Time for an open-profession CMAN list, plz.

[Asha]

lol yeah.. sorcerer Smastery ftw.

[Stunseed]

If your sorceror can 2x hiding.

[Bobmuhthol]

Rogues can get it even if they have no hiding at all, so that's a little unfair.

[Stunseed]

Here's the schway. If you can 2x in hiding, then you can get it. You cannot learn the cman unless you meet the requirement.

Any profession who can 2x in brawling should get haymaker, twin hammerfists, etc.

[Bobmuhthol]

That kind of thinking goes against the core of maneuvers in the first place:

Not every profession can 2x CM, so wouldn't that in effect suggest that those professions shouldn't get CMs at all?

[Stunseed]

No, but it would open up more professions to unlock more manuevers. Wizard wants to feint? Sure, just 1x in a weapon, etc.

[Bobmuhthol]

You can be absolutely terrible at using a weapon to attack someone but still know how to feint, though.

[Stunseed]

Brawling, included.

( Playing devil's advocate )

[Warriorbird]

The point of the list was to add flare to Square professions.

[StrayRogue]

Which it does: unless you are a rogue.

[Bobmuhthol]

What are you talking about? Rogues can hamstring in THREE SECONDS now.

[Fallen]

And Cutthroat with a flaring weapon. Most of their maneuvers now can flare, making flaring accessories much, much more appealing.

[GuildRat]

It would've been nice if they'd at least extended the duration of surge to 3 minutes. I guess I wouldn't mind the 2 minute cool down so much if it wasn't such a short duration enhancement. To me, it's just punishing those players that worked to get max stamina and discouraging others that may have tried otherwise. That's just MHO.

And who the F cares if the CMs show up in the spell active list? I've got the strings of them dropping highlighted, what's the use? Who's gonna check if something that lasts 90 seconds is active anyhow?

Great tweak there, Coase. You moron. Way to waste time coding on something completely trivial and useless.

[Asha]

I can't see how anyone who used surge didn't see this coming though.

Nope, with its short duration I thought it was perfect.
I don't know wether to be happy or sad when they bring out an over powerful idea then nerf it later when I'm enjoying it.
Ahh well. Coup can be a slight 'keep up' with the AS while the Surge cool down is in effect.
Becouse Coup looks good now.

[GuildRat]

Coup de Grace would be nice......If you weren't killing your foe in 1-2 shots in the first place. I guess it works for warriors moreso than it'd work for rogues. Personally, as a rogue, I wouldn't pick it up just for the stamina decrease or for the duration of the added AS.

[GuildRat]

I've changed my view on smastery for rangers, it's really over the top when you consider that rangers have to use 50 levels of CM points to master it.


I can't see how anyone who used surge didn't see this coming though.

Why release it in the way that they did then? Surge is just as much defensive as it is offensive. Notice the drop in DS when surge falls off? Or the increase in RT that leaves your ass in the breeze? Not to mention how much more vulnerable you become to maneuvers?

To me, it's a change that wasn't necessary with all the other changes that GMs have been talking about. A complete waste of resources at this point in time.

For F's sake....leave well enough alone and fix the shit you've been promising for years(to the GMs)!!

[Asha]

To be completely fair, my hunt is over by the time smastery wears off. It's Surge changes that are a pain in the ass.
The cooloff period should be negated with the highest rank in the skill.
Whatever, I'll be dropping surge. I have to refresh it about 3 or four times in one hunt. It's now pretty useless.
Sod it, i'll take up spin attack.

[Stretch]

Surge was too good to be true anyway.

Besides, squares did fine in GS IV before maneuvers were ever released, so it's not like they're unplayable now.

It would suck pretty hard not to be able to maintain 3 second fire time without getting strength, though.

[Gan]

Smastery tweak - sucks royally. :(

Surge tweak - ah well, figured it was coming eventually. Makes me rethink my investment in it.

Cutthroat - nice to have the flared potential, would rather traded this in for them leaving smastery alone though.

[GuildRat]

Surge was too good to be true anyway.

Besides, squares did fine in GS IV before maneuvers were ever released, so it's not like they're unplayable now.

It would suck pretty hard not to be able to maintain 3 second fire time without getting strength, though.

Not nearly unplayable....but with everything we've been promised..eg. monks, savants....yada yada...do you really think this is a good time to be wasting time to re-code shit like CMs?

[Danical]

Yes, the cooldown will be reset if the maneuver is reactivated. I should note that the cooldown periods for both Surge and Shadow Mastery run concurrently with the maneuver's effects, so a rank 5 Surge will boost strength for 90 seconds and then have its cooldown period run out 30 seconds later.

30 seconds people . . . It still isn't that big a deal.

>How is feint going to work with the possibility of 100% stance force? Will we still get 100% stance force and 8 RT with a 150 outcome?

The stance reduction formula was simply uncapped. It will take a 200 outcome to force full defensive into full offensive.

Not exactly pleased but I can live with it.

[TheEschaton]

See, 30 seconds is not bad at all. I can usually defend for a bit for 30 seconds while I cooldown from Surge.

Will there be messaging to know when the cooldown is done for those of us who don't use ShitFront?

-TheE-

[Bobmuhthol]

People with 5 ranks of surge should be able to afford the doubled stamina cost anyway. It's not like the cooldown matters at all, since Simu doesn't understand what a cooldown is.

[The Ponzzz]

Surge was too good to be true anyway.

Besides, squares did fine in GS IV before maneuvers were ever released, so it's not like they're unplayable now.

And creatures's were upped(AS, DS, perception, etc) accordingly.

[Asha]

Creatures were up tweaked after Maneuvers were released? I thought that happened once and that was during the change from GS3 - 4.

[RichardCranium]

Will there be messaging to know when the cooldown is done for those of us who don't use ShitFront?

-TheE-


Yes.

[RichardCranium]

Creatures were up tweaked after Maneuvers were released? I thought that happened once and that was during the change from GS3 - 4.

They've been adding creatures to the BCS for a while now.

[Gan]

We have discussed the issue of Shadow Mastery and have decided to slightly modify our plans regarding it. The Rank 5 benefit of Shadow Mastery, the second -1 RT to Sneak, will be made into a passive benefit. The initial Rank 3 Sneak RT reduction will remain an activated benefit, along with the Hide RT reduction and all other benefits. The cooldown period will remain as previously announced.

Coase

This message was originally posted in Hunting and Combat, Combat Maneuvers Discussion. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=4&topic=4&message=10419 (http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=4&topic=4&message=10419)


__________________________________________________ __

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=1&topic=1&message=1470

[Latrinsorm]

You, like the player of Eugenides et al, are one of those I played a square with no guild skills, no DFredux, no combat maneuvers, and liked it type of people. There's clearly no room for you in Simutronics except as an SGM in charge of "game balance."

You are not everybody. The hate is lame.To expound upon the responses of Bob & Ash (wb 2x!), I was mocking the ridiculous (and self-centered) overreactions of certain parties. By my will, "hate" does not exist. You, like the player of Nodyre (assuming Nodyre kicked up a fit, which seems pretty fair) et al, are one of those "anything that benefits my character's profession is good and anything that is to its detriment is bad" people. There's clearly no room for you in GS except as a disgruntled whinger on a message board.

Or, instead of being moronic and extremist, we could just say "these updates strike a good balance between keeping professions at a level playing field and keeping professions fun".
Great tweak there, Coase. You moron. Way to waste time coding on something completely trivial and useless.Several people on the officials have asked for CMANs to show up in some way, duration-wise.
Notice the drop in DS when surge falls off? Or the increase in RT that leaves your ass in the breeze? Not to mention how much more vulnerable you become to maneuvers?Unless you play a crappy race, I don't really see how your character gets so overwhelmingly encumbered. If you're cash-hunting, just take more breaks.

I'm sure WB is going to have some firm words with you regarding those personal attacks though. Hate is bad. :no:

[RichardCranium]

You, like the player of Nodyre (assuming Nodyre kicked up a fit, which seems pretty fair) et al, are one of those "anything that benefits my character's profession is good and anything that is to its detriment is bad" people.

Actually Nodyre's one of like three arguing the validity of the changes. Even before the compromise to Shadow Mastery. Figure that one out.

[Anebriated]

I like how they handled the smastery change with the update ganalon posted. Wish they would do the same for surge. Have the cooldown as announced unless you have 5 ranks then make it a passive bonus.

[Makkah]

Passive STR bonus? Yea fucking right.

[Latrinsorm]

Figure that one out.Yeah, I did not expect that. Sorry, Nodyre's player, wherever you are!

[Stunseed]

It's because he doesn't play Nodyre anymore, I'd wager.

[Paradii]

how does smastery affect camouflage? I only have 3 ranks of smastery and I think I retain 33%(not completely sure) of the AS bonus if I sneak to another room. Do you retain more of the bonus as smastery ranks increase?

[Stunseed]

No, that's your lore training, I tink.

[Danical]

Camouflage also provides a bonus to the ranger who has acquired the Shadow Mastery combat maneuver (CMAN) skill. While SNEAKing, the caster retains 10% of the AS bonus per Shadow Mastery rank. The results are cumulative, so every room that the ranger sneaks will reduce the AS bonus retained until it reaches zero.

[Stunseed]

Huh. Color me corrected. Good thing I don't use Smastery.

[Warriorbird]

Kinda funny, Latrin. I've argued for downtweaks to more than one profession I played/maneuver I used. I was one of the ones who got Trip severely downtweaked...and I backed similar for Mstrike, given some data that existed about its viability with small brawling weapons. I also suggested that unless damage weighting was downtweaked in GS4...that those black ash mattocks would be the most frightening weapons in the game.

I've always been a big supporter of the maneuver list...I won't lie about that...but I also supported making the training limited if you wanted truly great maneuvers. I don't feel that way about Smastery and Surge now. They aren't worth my points (On my Rogue...my secondary character). My Warrior may actually come out much more frightening given the tweaks to Coup. I think I'll be about 15 AS above what I was before at the end of all this with him.

They must have seen some validity in what people were saying...given the Smastery re-edit. That...or Tsoran blackmailing Simu really is the ultimate anti Warden weapon.

[Danical]

. . . those black ash mattocks would be the most frightening weapons in the game . . .

el oh el.

Damage Weighting has always sucked.

[StrayRogue]

Nodyre's happy because he's the only gimp in the entire game who uses cheap shot to hunt.

[StrayRogue]

BTW are these changes live yet?

[ELO]

BTW are these changes live yet?


Not yet.

[The Ponzzz]

REJOICE FOR FIXSKILLS!

[LeftOverForGood]

At least they were smart enough to do it this close to the annual fixskills.. as well as roll out that limited CMan fixskills.

Of course they were probably more worried about their pocketbook than actually caring about the player base's feelings...

[Jolena]

Welp, after hunting Jolena in Maaghara Tower tonight for the first time since the CMAN changes rolled out, I can honestly say that the Smastery changes aren't really affecting me.

I have 111 stamina and while I run Surge and Smastery at the same time, refreshing Smastery at 60 stamina to keep it up constantly really isn't hindering me. I regain stamina so quickly anyhow (and that's without aid of trinkets like the hazy glass rings), that it isn't causing an issue. Also, Surge's cool down period is only a minute or so after it expires. I'm not seeing a huge issue with that either, because hitting one or two creatures at the most without it isn't bothering me.

And actually, I could probably manage to run Surge constantly at the amount of stamina I have simply because I regain it fast enough to keep them both going even with penalties. :shrug:

[Anebriated]

Additional fixskills were granted for the changes and i think they were already implimented.

[Stanley Burrell]

The QSTRIKE and Coup de Grace are da bombiest, though.

[AestheticDeath]

They gave fixskills rather than cman reallocations?

[Gan]

REJOICE FOR FIXSKILLS!

REJOICE! REJOICE!

And all is well with the world.

[Gan]

They gave fixskills rather than cman reallocations?


You get a fixskills now as well as instant cman unlearn/learn ability if you dont need the fixskill to fix your cmans (no migration period).

You'll get another fixskills on 5/20 providing they dont nuke that option. This should give people the opportunity to experiment with any build theories and then fix them/tweak them on 5/20 with the annual fixskill.

On the lighter side, this just temporarily fucked up the fixskill potion market. :lol:

[Landrion]

Welp, after hunting Jolena in Maaghara Tower tonight for the first time since the CMAN changes rolled out, I can honestly say that the Smastery changes aren't really affecting me.

I have 111 stamina and while I run Surge and Smastery at the same time, refreshing Smastery at 60 stamina to keep it up constantly really isn't hindering me. I regain stamina so quickly anyhow (and that's without aid of trinkets like the hazy glass rings), that it isn't causing an issue. Also, Surge's cool down period is only a minute or so after it expires. I'm not seeing a huge issue with that either, because hitting one or two creatures at the most without it isn't bothering me.

And actually, I could probably manage to run Surge constantly at the amount of stamina I have simply because I regain it fast enough to keep them both going even with penalties. :shrug:

Yeah exactly, I can push through the surge cooldown if I really want to, but doing every third combat without it isnt a huge chore. In fact, I just take the stamina I would have used on it and throw a truestrike or spinattack instead. I'll probably be leaving the vrael alone for a little while now that I cant double feint, but other than that it hasnt made much of a difference to me at all.

[AestheticDeath]

On the lighter side, this just temporarily fucked up the fixskill potion market. :lol:

I am actually glad about this one.. I have one I could sell, and I know others do - and I don't want them to tank neccessarily. But this gives the power-BG guys a chance to save up for fixstats. I still haven't actually heard of one selling on the open market. The only two I saw put up for sale were used by the owner.

Hopefully a few will be around soon.

[Gnomad]

So now what's the balance between getting more WSPEC and SURGE? They both provide +2 AS for the same cost, but WSPEC gives a bonus to CML and is passive, while SURGE gives you the encumbrance bonus, lowers your refresh time, and works on all weapon types.

To be honest, WSPEC looks more appealing to me, since I almost always hunt with my bonded weapon anyway, and rarely get enough treasure to make the encumbrance bonus worth it.

[The Ponzzz]

Well full surge is +14, where full wspec is +10 for the weapon base only.

I agree, for AS, wspec is the way to go. I never used Surge for AS though seeing thrown got HALF the bonus for surge. I used it PURELY to overcome the problems with encumberance and thrown.

[Gnomad]

Well full surge is +14, where full wspec is +10 for the weapon base only.

I agree, for AS, wspec is the way to go. I never used Surge for AS though seeing thrown got HALF the bonus for surge. I used it PURELY to overcome the problems with encumberance and thrown.True, but ROI is the same for them.

I'm sure if I ever get back to a hunting area that gives treasure worth a damn, I'll want Surge again.

I suppose this is the appropriate place to ask: are there any hard stats on Side-by-Side bonuses anywhere? I've never seen any numbers for it.

[Jolena]

I honestly wish I had it, as I get asked this question a lot. I have seen my bonus go as high as 25 using sidebyside, but normally if I am in a group large enough to do this for me, there are other things going on like bard songs or cleric spells. I really do need to just get a huge group of people together who have A) some sidebyside ranks (ranging from 1 rank to 4, but not mastered), B) don't have sidebyside but DO have Cman's of some sort, C) have no cman's at all, and D) have mastered sidebyside. That way, I can throw in all the different factors and try to determine what type of bonus is yielded with each one, because each one *does* make a different bonus come into play.

[Danical]

IIRC -- Mestys said a specific amount is given per rank. Up to two other players joined with you can increase this by amount based on their SbS ranks and CM ranks.

I think the max is around 25 or so.

[Stunseed]

With 4 ranks of sbs and with Jolena in Stunseed's group, he gains 10 AS. If Keyvon is in their group ( 0 CM's ), it is 11 AS. I believe it is 15/16, respectively.

[StrayRogue]

Do you get a sbs bonus if grouped with someone with no ranks in the skill?

[Jolena]

Yes, Keyvon has no ranks of CM (and obviously no CMAN's, so no Sidebyside) yet we get a +1 to our AS just because he's in our group.

[StrayRogue]

+1 for how many ranks of the skill?

[Danical]

I seem to remember not getting the SbS bonus when I aim my attacks . . . still true?

[Jolena]

+1 for how many ranks of the skill?

Stunseed has 4 ranks, I have 5, and Keyvon has zero (because he has NO Combat Maneuver training at all). Both Stunseed and I get the same +1 bonus, so it doesn't seem to be dependant upon how many ranks we have of Sidebyside. Just that we have ranks will give us a +1 bonus if someone without ANY CM's or CMAN ranks joins our group.

[Jolena]

I seem to remember not getting the SbS bonus when I aim my attacks . . . still true?

No. If you ambush from the open, or ambush from hiding while stalking a group leader, you still get your bonus from sidebyside. The only thing that doesn't let you get the bonus is mstrike, or some other CMAN based attack.

[Danical]

No. If you ambush from the open, or ambush from hiding while stalking a group leader, you still get your bonus from sidebyside. The only thing that doesn't let you get the bonus is mstrike, or some other CMAN based attack.

Halleluiah!

[Stanley Burrell]

You'll get another fixskills on 5/20 providing they dont nuke that option.

How sound = this?

[Back]

Shield Bash

The results of this maneuver have been tied much more heavily to the endroll result. Previously, one could succeed by large margin of success with this maneuver and only deal minor damage, or only succeed by a small margin and deal critical damage. This degree of randomness has been significantly reduced, so that the result of a successful shield bash should now be much more predictable.



cman sbash is a must for sword and boards...


You lunge forward at a dark shambler with your Vaalorian kite shield and attempt a shield bash!
[Roll result: 253 (open d100: 162) Penalties: 5]
Awesome bash and a dark shambler flips end over end and lands on its head!
... 25 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the dark shambler's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The dark shambler screams evilly one last time and goes still.
A dark shambler appears less distracted and conflicted.
Roundtime: 5 sec.