Whose The Most Powerful?

[Drisco]

I was just wondering what Proffesion people thought to be the most powerful?

To me Pures Id say wizards
and non pures Id say Rogue

Just wondering what everyone else thought and why heh

Also what is the most powerful and usefull spell?

[Back]

Always been a semi fan myself. Clerics and Paladins.

Also been a mutant fan.

Fame lists say Sorc though.

[Fallen]

Sorcerers for self reliance and killing speed/ease
Rogue for just about everything else

[Izalude]

Wizards have the two most powerful spells in the game...

Enchant item = Permanent AS/DS strength to weapons and armor
Meteor Swarm = Pretty much guaranteed death to anyone unfortunate enough to get hit by it.

However, power is a relative term.

Wizards and rogues may be the two best utility classes in game, but Sorcerers are probably the most destructive.

[FinisWolf]

The one who hits enter first.

My opinion though:

Pure: Wizard
Semi: Paladin
Square: Rogue

The messed thing is, or the good thing balance wise, each profession has its perks, and each has its downfalls, so as more and more balance occurs in the game, there will be no true profession that is better then another.

:shrug:

Finis

[FinisWolf]

I forgot spell, I think open implode is by far the most powerful spell in game. My wee little level 16ish sorcerer, at the time, killed two level 40 chars and some other char about level 20 with open implode, where meteor swarm is just weak in my opinion and much more level based then open implode.

:shrug:

Finis

[Meges]

I'm going to have to say wizards. I've raised a few professions into high level and have always been impressed by the variety of killing power wizards have. Sorcerers are up there as well, but they're the one profession I haven't gotten past level 20 so my view is obviously a little skewed. I have a myriad of low level characters (< level 20), but I won't include those, save one.


Wizard = couple of titled, one 48 who's inactive, and one post capper (10.6 mil).
Rogue = level 28 and level 87.
Cleric = level 25
Paladin = level 70 and level 55.
Bard = level 20 and level 42.
Ranger = level 20 and 33.
Warrior = level 25 (the two paladins were once warriors at the current levels).
Empath = level 76 and level 56.
Sorcerer = level 11, heh. Trying to title him now, though. So far it sucks, but I'll admit that pures (wizards/sorcerers), at lower levels, suck for the most part.


Meges

[Artha]

Maxed out, I think a meteor swarm in TSSW would kill more people than an open implode anywhere else.

[Bobmuhthol]

Meteor swarm has a significant grace period so it's either a guaranteed injury/death or a guaranteed complete failure. Implode is more of a middle spell, which makes sense since it's instant cast.

[Meges]

The one who hits enter first.

My opinion though:

Pure: Wizard
Semi: Paladin
Square: Rogue

The messed thing is, or the good thing balance wise, each profession has its perks, and each has its downfalls, so as more and more balance occurs in the game, there will be no true profession that is better then another.

:shrug:

Finis

I kind of agree with this, to a point. However, I had my wizard in the last gladiator game and won every single one-on-one contest he was in, which includes one where he was out-classed by 10 levels. He has four medals against other professions and not one of them had a chance really. Then again, fighting other PCs versus fighting critters is a totally different realm altogether.

And yes, every profession has their perk(s), that's for sure. Although, I could say that some are arguably more desirable than others. Balance... I don't know. If you train the cookie cutter route, you could say they're balanced, but once you stray from the "common" path, balance can fly out the door a lot of times. I'd say the game is balanced somewhat fairly for the first 30-40 levels, but after that training choices can cause significant advantages and disadvantages. In my opinion though, that's what it's about, making the choice(s) that suits your vision and creates an environment you can enjoy.


Meges

[Meges]

Meteor swarm has a significant grace period so it's either a guaranteed injury/death or a guaranteed complete failure. Implode is more of a middle spell, which makes sense since it's instant cast.

You could cast something like 410 (435), 909 then 525 or whatever. I used it quite successfully hunting in Darkstone years ago, but I've never tried it against unwilling people who would give me intelligent resistance. Another nice thing about 525 is that it hits all surrounding rooms. So a quake imbed might be a better tactic.


Meges

[Fallen]

Meteor swarm was tamed a good deal with 620 Fire protection. You can actually live through them now.

[Meges]

Meteor swarm was tamed a good deal with 620 Fire protection. You can actually live through them now.

Want to get together and test that so I can see for myself?


Meges

[Fallen]

Get me a level 25 wizard with the spell and you bet ya.

[Meges]

Get me a level 25 wizard with the spell and you bet ya.

I don't think level plays a role in 525 from the caster's perspective, which is/was another reason it was deemed so powerful. It might help the one getting pelted by cosmic boogers, because of better stats and relevant skills, but that's it.


Meges

[Izzy]

I forgot spell, I think open implode is by far the most powerful spell in game. My wee little level 16ish sorcerer, at the time, killed two level 40 chars and some other char about level 20 with open implode, where meteor swarm is just weak in my opinion and much more level based then open implode.

:shrug:

Finis

How did you manage to cast a level 20 spell at 16?

Anyway, I'd say for power in a duel situation;
Pure: Sorcerer - much harder for most clases to raise TD than it is to raise bolt DS
Semi: Bards - Sonic disruption is sick, not to mention some sick attack speed and high AS, and ability to self-unstun
Square: Warriors - My vote on this one is based on cmans/guild skills. Granted, i don't have as much experience with the rogue guild skills, but warcries and skills like haymaker are pretty solid at disabling. And redux ftw.

[Ignot]

rapid fire + sandstorm over and over and over....dont forget 916 when your done.

[Drew]

While just about anyone can win a battle I think clerics and empaths are probably the weakest since they are the only class without a knockdown spell.

I'm pretty happy with my ranger, decent enough protection against cmans and way more TD than a rogue or warrior. Your best bet, as always, is to cast or attack first. If you are fighting someone the same level as you and you get first cast and can't beat them then you are doing something awfully wrong.

[AestheticDeath]

Rangers get more TD than sorcerers?

[Drew]

Rangers get more TD than sorcerers?


Was thinking ahead of my typing. Edited it out before you posted :thanx:

[Dwarven Empath]

"While just about anyone can win a battle I think clerics and empaths are probably the weakest since they are the only class without a knockdown spell. "

Prep 110 cast Drew.
Prep 214 cast Drew.
prep 1140 cast Drew.
prep 1106 cast Drew.

That's the fun way. Now...the easy way.

Tap my ring...Tremors...Drew falls, or comes out of hiding.

1106 Drew. repeat.

So...The winner is. The person that can type the fastest.

Medi...

[Drew]

If you can't use imbeds (which is the accepted dueling method) empaths and clerics have no way to drive someone out of hiding.

The first person to cast wins, but against an empath or cleric if you hit "hide" first you should be guaranteed a victory essentially. All they can do is throw up wall of force and wait.

If you can use imbeds, well then there's no point in even comparing because you can use any spell in the game.

[The Ponzzz]

HIDE STALK THROWN/ARCHERY. End game

[Landrion]

I was just wondering what Proffesion people thought to be the most powerful?
To me Pures Id say wizards
and non pures Id say Rogue
Just wondering what everyone else thought and why heh
Also what is the most powerful and usefull spell?

The one that types first.

In any event, Id tend to agree on wizards because the spell Id name is cone. Cone is so good they almost always specifically make critters cheat it on invasions. Of course it has no CvC application, but the wizard lists are rife with other mean shit anyway (callwind, ewave, haste, majorshock, rapid fire).

[GS4-D]

If we’re talking about most powerful vs creatures, I’d say my rogue is pretty much up there as being the ‘most powerful’. DS wise I don’t think I’ve seen any profession in OTF with a higher DS in both offensive or defensive unless they throw up shields or walls and even then their DS would more or less match my rogue’s DS. Along with a fast RT on his attack, he plows through creatures at the same rate as a pure. In fact, it might even be a faster rate as his accuracy on one shot kills is 90% whereas a pure may not have such a high one shot kill accuracy.


I'm pretty happy with my ranger, decent enough protection against cmans and way more TD than a rogue or warrior.

Regarding TD, he’s got the same, if not higher TD than like leveled rangers.

If you're asking about most powerful against other PCs, as many have already stated it's who hits Enter first. All it takes is getting your enemy in RT or stunned and it's all over for them. Even if there's classes that don't know a lot of spells or don't have access to learning knockdown spells, as Medi's player showed you can have imbeds to cover your bases in that aspect.

[Malok]

At the time I was playing, sorcerer hands down.


Meteor Storm = people see flaming balls, so there's some warning.

Implosion = while there is some initial effects, does provide some warning/ability to get away for most persons.



Evil Eye = instant win button. You could sit at a table in an inn - UNTOUCHABLE, and cast through your eye and instantly kill everyone/thing. Theres no warning. No ability to get away. If your CS is high enough, they die - instantly.

AND unlike every other form of attack - with this spell, the caster is safe from any potential chance of dieing (or retribution from people looking to even the score).

[I would assume though at this point that CS vs. TD have been brought somewhat in line. But back in my day - sending the eye VERY far away and still being able to ward anyone/anything was very easy. :)]

[Fallen]

Evil eye has been nerfed. You can't cast through a sanctuary, or while in a sanctuary, or from outside of town while the eye is in it.

[StrayRogue]

Way back before GP, sorcerer's were easily the most powerful. Everyone was playing one. Da Farma's guide was pretty much the definitive sourve for all things sorcerery.

The main boon they had was the old CS calculation, whereby a trippler could get a static +5 CS every level. This left the other professions in the dust at higher levels.

[Latrinsorm]

HIDE STALK THROWN/ARCHERY. End gamePlate + redux > archery

[TheEschaton]

Your eye doesn't have redux, bitch! Well, maybe it does, but it's still soft and makes a gooey noise when you hit it directly!

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

Not only does my (character's) eye have redux, it's covered by rigid metal. :)

[GS4-D]

Your eye doesn't have redux, bitch!

Go for the eyes, Boo, GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAAR!!!

[Drew]

Not only does my (character's) eye have redux, it's covered by rigid metal. :)



How do you see?

[Drew]

Regarding TD, he’s got the same, if not higher TD than like leveled rangers.


How do you accomplish this self cast? With elemental TD it's possible but I don't see how a rogue could have near the spiritual TD of a ranger without a really wacky training plan.

[Fallen]

Hmm. Magical Full Plate is a pretty good TD boost. 401 as well.

[SellerOfSouls]

I kind of agree with this, to a point. However, I had my wizard in the last gladiator game and won every single one-on-one contest he was in, which includes one where he was out-classed by 10 levels. He has four medals against other professions and not one of them had a chance really. Then again, fighting other PCs versus fighting critters is a totally different realm altogether.

And yes, every profession has their perk(s), that's for sure. Although, I could say that some are arguably more desirable than others. Balance... I don't know. If you train the cookie cutter route, you could say they're balanced, but once you stray from the "common" path, balance can fly out the door a lot of times. I'd say the game is balanced somewhat fairly for the first 30-40 levels, but after that training choices can cause significant advantages and disadvantages. In my opinion though, that's what it's about, making the choice(s) that suits your vision and creates an environment you can enjoy.


Meges

Well worded and true.

SoS

[SellerOfSouls]

How did you manage to cast a level 20 spell at 16?


I'd say a skewed memory. :-)

SoS

[SellerOfSouls]

While just about anyone can win a battle I think clerics and empaths are probably the weakest since they are the only class without a knockdown spell.

110 is a knockdown spell.

SoS

[Drew]

110 is a knockdown spell.

SoS



It's a warding spell with a knockdown effect. Clerics and empaths have no way to knock someone out of hiding.

[StrayRogue]

Clerics suck in PvP. Empaths less so.

[Latrinsorm]

How do you see?How can my character survive indefinitely with his leg cut off and no medical attention of any kind? How is it that my character can sprint around for hours carrying his body weight in iron slabs without getting the slightest bit fatigued?

He just does. :)
Magical Full Plate is a pretty good TD boost.Functionally, anyway. That said, I'd expect a ranger could get into at least double chain by cap, and that's only 14 behind full plate in CvA. I would hope rangers get more than 14 sTD.

[SellerOfSouls]

It's a warding spell with a knockdown effect. Clerics and empaths have no way to knock someone out of hiding.

The post I responded to stated "knock-down", so that's what I responded to. And it's true; they have no knock out of hiding spells.

A little off topic, but regarding meteor swarm and implode, one of the things I find distasteful is that a sorcerer can learn from implode, while a wizard can not learn from meteor swarm.

Something that brought a question to my mind was, when you utilize evil eye, and cast via that, can you learn at the same time?

SoS

[GS4-D]

How do you accomplish this self cast? With elemental TD it's possible but I don't see how a rogue could have near the spiritual TD of a ranger without a really wacky training plan.

Selfcast 101, 107, 120, 401, 406, 414, 430 + magical chain or metal armor CvA. When I spoke with a ranger buddy of mine my elemental TD was in fact higher than his, spirit was on par as his.

EDIT: CMAN Focus and CoL sign too.

[Drew]

Hmm. Magical Full Plate is a pretty good TD boost. 401 as well.

Magical plate only gets +9 over what most rangers wear (augmented chain) at upper levels.

[Xandalf]

These threads are always so incredibly stupid, with mind numbing circular logic.

[Artha]

That's because PvP in GS is dumb. Any profession can kill any other profession with minimal commands.

[Drew]

These threads are always so incredibly stupid, with mind numbing circular logic.


I don't think this thread has been stupid at all, everyone has basically said that first strike wins.

[Drew]

Selfcast 101, 107, 120, 401, 406, 414, 430 + magical chain or metal armor CvA. When I spoke with a ranger buddy of mine my elemental TD was in fact higher than his, spirit was on par as his.

EDIT: CMAN Focus and CoL sign too.


Haha ok wacky training plan. 50 spell rogues are pretty rare.

[The Ponzzz]

I comment was against a pure.

[Landrion]

These threads are always so incredibly stupid, with mind numbing circular logic.

Yeah, I hear where youre coming from. Its not like someone is going to whip out a grand theorem that mathmatically proves SORC=733T and EMPATH=tehsux or something. Its more like asking, what about your favorite profession makes you feel good/powerful/satisfied or what do you feel is its strongest point? Of course, if you ask in the more general way, and your concern isnt nice features like helping people or utility youll get a lot of answers that dont appeal so much.

[Latrinsorm]

Magical plate only gets +9 over what most rangers wear (augmented chain) at upper levels.Magical MBP is only 10 ahead of aug chain. Magical full plate is 13. :)

[Back]

Yeah, I hear where youre coming from. Its not like someone is going to whip out a grand theorem that mathmatically proves SORC=733T and EMPATH=tehsux or something. Its more like asking, what about your favorite profession makes you feel good/powerful/satisfied or what do you feel is its strongest point? Of course, if you ask in the more general way, and your concern isnt nice features like helping people or utility youll get a lot of answers that dont appeal so much.

Good points. A better question(s) might be...


Which class is best solo?

Which class is best as support?

Which class is best solo with support and whats the best support class?

Which classes make the best two person hunting teams?

And so on...

[Drew]

Magical MBP is only 10 ahead of aug chain. Magical full plate is 13. :)


Ok neato.

[Paradii]

Good points. A better question(s) might be...



Which class is best solo with support and whats the best support class?




Does this one make no sense to anyone else or am I drunk again.

[Artha]

I'd throw up wizards as being the best support class. Aside from the big DS bonus they can provide, they've got a few knock downs, stance downers and haste/rapid fire.

[Latrinsorm]

Does this one make no sense to anyone else or am I drunk again.You're drunk. It means who's the best when they have someone helping them, and what class is the someone that's helping the who.

Warriors have the most breadth solo, because there are very few creatures immune to physical attacks. There are plenty of creatures that have nasty maneuvers or have crazy TDs, and there are way more spell defense than maneuver defense imbeds. Warriors also have (by far) the most survivability with redux and heavy armor. (There are a couple warriors who forgo armor and/or redux: these are the exceptions that prove the rule.) It's not really impressive to me for a character to pick out the easiest monsters in a hunting range and fry in 40 seconds. Where's the sport in that?

It's hard to argue against knockdown, haste, and defensive enhancements, so I'd go along with wizard for support. Bards are close though.

Best with support I'd say it's all even. Put a capped wizard and a capped empath with anyone and they're going to be unstoppable.

[pmauddib]

Which class can generate the best DS in offensive, and or defensive, self spelled only? my first guess would be a class that can triple in dodge and or shields, and still learn spells at a decent enough rate to get all the big spells by cap.

[Artha]

That kind of class doesn't really exist unless you're big time sacrificing in other areas.

I think sorcerers can generate the best DS using scroll infusion, but without scrolls/imbeds I think it's them or wizards.

[crb]

Pure: Sorcerer - much harder for most clases to raise TD than it is to raise bolt DS

Wizards, on average, will have atleast 25 more CS than an equivalent sorcerer. If your criteria is highest CS you need to pick wizard, not sorcerer.

As such for PVP I'll pick wizards & rogues. Rogues should be obvious, wizards because with stone skin and temporal shift they actually have a chance to survive even if they don't attack first. Rangers would be just behind rogues.

For hunting I'd pick clerics & rogues. Clerics have low physical training costs, meaning they get more defense for less tps, or more defense for same tps. They have low critter TDs to deal with, and a fairly reliable arsenal of kill spells.

However, truth be told some of the best hunters now are semis. Bards & Rangers can hunt from guarded like a sorcerer, or with weapons like a rogue. Very versatile.

[Drisco]

Which Spells are the most usefull/Powerful when hunting on a everyday occasion?

Also whats better Pures Semis, or Squares?

IMO Im a fan of Pures

[Makkah]

Monks are, bar none, the most powerful profession in the game. Anyone that believes otherwise is a motherfucking fool.

[FinisWolf]

How did you manage to cast a level 20 spell at 16?


Yea, sos is right, I was at work posting and being pestered by employee's and my bosses. Sorry. My sorcerer was in fact level 20 at the time.

Finis

[FinisWolf]

Which class is best solo?

If you know how to hunt them, all of them.
Which class is best as support?

Wizard hands down. They provide AS / DS / and if they want to spend the mana CS.

You could also take support to mean silvers, and with recent changes, and rangers like Regyy I would say Rangers win the silver award, where wizards used to.
Which classes make the best two person hunting teams?

Wizard / Empath
Finis

[FinisWolf]

Does this one make no sense to anyone else or am I drunk again.

I didn't answer it because I felt it was redundent.

:shrug:

Finis

[Drew]

It's hard to argue against knockdown, haste, and defensive enhancements, so I'd go along with wizard for support. Bards are close though.



I haven't given it a lot of thought but since apparently the wizard is along for the hunt to cast haste he would have to be similar or higher level than the warrior, wouldn't a bard singing song of noise make the warrior almost invulnerable?

[Artha]

Nothing's going to cast when it's call winded into oblivion with a hasted/rapid fired anybody attacking every second.

[Latrinsorm]

Wizards, on average, will have atleast 25 more CS than an equivalent sorcerer. If your criteria is highest CS you need to pick wizard, not sorcerer.But are sorcerer TDs and wizard TDs the same, generally? If wizard TDs are generally 25 higher, then isn't it irrelevant?

Song of noise is a good point I hadn't considered. I think I'd stay with the wizard because I'm under the impression that song of noise interferes with the bard's other magic as well. If that's not the case, bards look like the top choice.

[LazyBard]

But are sorcerer TDs and wizard TDs the same, generally? If wizard TDs are generally 25 higher, then isn't it irrelevant?

Song of noise is a good point I hadn't considered. I think I'd stay with the wizard because I'm under the impression that song of noise interferes with the bard's other magic as well. If that's not the case, bards look like the top choice.

Song of noise only effects the casting of new spells it doesnt effect bards spellsongs which are already in effect until they have to be renewed. Even at 50 trains my bard hunts with song of noise up and just drops it just before the remaining songs need to be renewed.

[LazyBard]

Which Spells are the most usefull/Powerful when hunting on a everyday occasion?

Also whats better Pures Semis, or Squares?

IMO Im a fan of Pures

I havent played a pure to a high enough level to speak for focused implosion but I can say that focused sonic disruption is devastating. My bard hunts with polearms until encumbrance effects his RT too much then switches to sonic disruption and/or vibration chant to finish box hunting. Both crit often (focused sonic disruption moreso) and the majority of creatures have a lower TD against spellsongs then spiritual or elemental.

Edited to add: I have no where near enough lores to recive the bouns of using a two handed instrument without actually using the instrument and running around hunting basicly empty handed maybe SP can post a clip of him using focused sonic disruption since I am sure he probally gets the bouns.

[Andreal]

Focused Implosion is probably the most powerful spell in the game, as far as killing a player is concerned. Cast against like-level, you don't need any other spells. Other professions will generally require a couple set-up spells/actions before they go in for the kill. Implosion you just cast it at what you want to die.

[Drisco]

Is Implosion level based, Lore Based or anything?

[Fallen]

Is Implosion level based, Lore Based or anything? >>

Level based. If the target is stunned or prone, they are easier to implode. It is not encumbrance based. Armor can be a factor in defense. Outside of that, Nilven always said he would post the exact factors, but I always got shouted down when I reminded him he never did. Heh.

[Drisco]

Same for Focused as Unfocused?

[Andreal]

Unfocused attacks an entire rooms, focused is focused on one person. So, focused is more powerful for attacking one person.

Or a disk full of full plate.

[Drisco]

Okay gotcha.

[Necromancer]

Unfocused implosion bypasses level for the initial attack (which does no damage). All it does is check for status. If anything in the room is stunned or bound, they are immediately sucked into the void and killed. Any stray items in the area are also sucked into the void, with the chance to strike any target not grouped with the sorcerer on the way in. If this stuns a target not already stunned or bound, then that target will also be sucked into the void. The subsequent three damage cycles do damage based on level (and/or sorcery spell ranks- I'm not sure we were ever told which exactly) and status, with the potential damage increased with each successive damage cycle.

Focused Implosion is based on spell aiming skill, sorcery spell ranks, and level relative to that of the caster. As Evarin stated, armor can potentially mitigate damage depending on the location of the FI damage. This version of the spell is weighed heavily in favor of the caster, almost always resulting in stuns, but it can be dodged entirely by a suitably powerful target.

[TheEschaton]

So a cleric with Censure and a Sorc with an open implosion can pretty much insta-kill a whole room if the cleric is powerful enough?

-TheE-

[Fallen]

Yep, though properly spelled, any capped spiritualist, or hybrid can get their TD high enough to ward their TD check.

He would be better off:

raise rod: Opens a void and stuns everyone
119 void: closes the void
raise rod: Kills everything in the room that is stunned

Further, using Open implosion in town results in the death only of the caster. Using focused implosion in town will result in an Environmental damage fine.

[Necromancer]

Yup, unfocused implosion automatically stuns any stunnable creature after it has been opened (note: this happens after the stun/bound check to determine what is sucked into the void), so a second void will suck them all into the void. It doesn't work on players, however. Open implosion merely knocks players down and puts them into 10 seconds of RT (which it also does to unstunnable creatures).

[Drisco]

Doesnt Implode suck players in and put them in the TSC if your in the landing?

[Necromancer]

Yup. Any player sucked into the void will immediately land at the nearest town center. It's quite amusing (and somewhat convenient when you are imploded on Plane 5)

[Drisco]

I thought it might have got nerfed heh.

It is quite exciting for the empaths too heh, when I see somone fall outta the sky I usally yell Hes Mine!!!


Now what would everyone say is the most powerful spell that yah use most often when hunting on a everyday occurrence?

[Ignot]

I like 415 and i use that almost everytime.

[Drisco]

Wow out of the 3 years Ive been playing I have never used that spell, Didnt even know it was there. Gonna have to try it out.

Is it worth it if you aren't attuned to anything.. I still cant decide what to attune to heh, any ideas?

[Celephais]

Immolate is just nasty as an every hunt spell, I have better success with it than 415, and I find that even creatures that can't be stunned will spend a good deal of time trying to put themselves out instead of fighting you... good distraction.

Lores play a role in 415, so take that into consideration. If you're talking wizards (can bards and sorcs attune?), since immolate provides a very solid fire CS based spell it would be a good idea to use a different element for diversity. Lightning has some amazing crits, but the water based areas tweaked to screw lightning usage could put a damper on that, I don't have much to comment on the other elements though (I might go water myself, it's not the strongest, but of the elements it's the only one lacking a real "punch" spell, this would fill that slot... air:sandstorm and even 505, earth 510, lightning 910, fire 519)

[Necromancer]

Lores don't affect 415. Attunement does. And it's a great spell for wizards. Sorcerers and Bards can't generally muster the CS needed to use it.

[Celephais]

Lores don't affect 415. Attunement does. And it's a great spell for wizards. Sorcerers and Bards can't generally muster the CS needed to use it.

Sheesh, I've been spreading all kinds of wrong information today, thanks for the correction.

Guess that makes non-fire even more appealing from a min/max perspective.

[AestheticDeath]

Lores don't affect 415. Attunement does. And it's a great spell for wizards. Sorcerers and Bards can't generally muster the CS needed to use it.

Don't you have to have a base amount of lores, like 20 or so to be able to attune to something?

[Andreal]

I might be wrong, but I don't think there is a min. needed in lroes anymore. Thought I saw an announcement saying that sometime in the past. Or I could be wrong.

[Asha]

Lores don't affect 415. Attunement does. And it's a great spell for wizards. Sorcerers and Bards can't generally muster the CS needed to use it.

For 2 ish years, from zombies to moulis, my minor elemental CS way surpassed my sorcerer based CS.
I used 415 often in PvP becouse of the hefty difference.
I used to overtrain in MnE and Sorc circles and still had a very very nice Sorc CS during those trains mentioned.
After the rift and the beginning of Ithzir things balanced out on their own somehow and Sorc circle became greater in CS. Way greater.

There are logs somewhere about here of me destroying Atreyeu with 415 becouse he was too trained ahead of me for 720 to work and his TD was too high.
415 is definatey very easily do-able.

And tb on topic. Rogues win.

[Ignot]

Attunement is just for RP and it won't effect combat. Lores effect combat.

[Celephais]

Attunement is just for RP and it won't effect combat. Lores effect combat.

You can only "attune" to the element you choose, if you're attuned your 415 will always flare that element, you can then attune (random or something similar) to get random flares again, but you will only be able to attune back to the same element you initially attuned to.

Basically once you pick an element, you can't attune to another element, but you can swap between your element and random.

[Drisco]

Attunement is just for RP and it won't effect combat.

Dont they effect you 415, 920, 411, 902 and the color of your disk?

[Celephais]

Dont they effect you 415, 920, 411, 902 and the color of your disk?

I think the effect to 920 and 511 (does it affect 511, I thought just gems did, or do they as well) fall under RP, there is also some eye flare thing you can do when attuned I believe. And it does not effect 902 (902 has no element component).

[Shalla]

It is quite exciting for the empaths too heh, when I see somone fall outta the sky I usally yell Hes Mine!!!



LMAO! You guys really get excited?

This reminds me of "Finding Nemo" with a flock of sea gulls saying "Mine, Mine, Mine, Minnneee"

[Shalla]

Don't you have to have a base amount of lores, like 20 or so to be able to attune to something?

To be able to Attune to lightning. You must have 20 on Air and 15 on water, or vice versa. If you have equal ranks on all of them, it would be random. To be able to attune to a specific element while having ranks on other elemental lores, you must have at least 1-5 ranks more than the others.

[Sean of the Thread]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/connor.jpg

[Celephais]

To be able to Attune to lightning. You must have 20 on Air and 15 on water, or vice versa. If you have equal ranks on all of them, it would be random. To be able to attune to a specific element while having ranks on other elemental lores, you must have at least 1-5 ranks more than the others.

The need for more ranks is no longer required I was pretty sure... like you can attune fire without any lore ranks at all... and for lightning it was (is?) 20/11

[Drisco]

LMAO! You guys really get excited?

This reminds me of "Finding Nemo" with a flock of sea gulls saying "Mine, Mine, Mine, Minnneee"



Pfff I did. A completely fried body will get you fried just off the limbs alone. Do yah sometimes go into the tsc and yah just have one minor cut and you ask for healing and no one like jumps on yah, Ya its not cause we didnt hear ya. Its cause yah dont got anything that can do anything major for our mind.

[Ignot]

Pfff I did. A completely fried body will get you fried just off the limbs alone. Do yah sometimes go into the tsc and yah just have one minor cut and you ask for healing and no one like jumps on yah, Ya its not cause we didnt hear ya. Its cause yah dont got anything that can do anything major for our mind.

That's why i never tip you selfish bastards.

[Latrinsorm]

A completely fried body will get you fried just off the limbs alone.6 rank 3 limb wounds will only get you 900 experience before spillage. Most characters have a larger bucket than that anyway, and you're going to lose at least 136 to spilling.

Limb minors, in terms of experience per mana expenditure, are by far the best way to go.

So even if you are going to be a greedy jerk, you should jump on limb minors. :)

[Drisco]

Pff Limb minors are over rated. And who said I was a greedy jerk, Midly offended over here. Im greedy to help people. Yah .. take that heh

[Michaelous]

if your definition of most powerful is one vs one killing efficiency then i would bet 100 mil in coins warriors. i wont list my reasons but train for train, i am willing to prove this to anyone who would want to duel me, even if i didnt get the first move in. second place would be sorcerers and rangers because of implosion and spike thorn. other then that everything is pretty much cake.
ive dueled about 20 or 30 times in the past couple month, and everyone ive lost to was ethier 10 trains above me or higher, imploded or spiked. so against rangers or sorcers yea it is first move wins , but other then that everyone is cake

[Sthrockmorton]

the people you're dueling must not be very experienced PvP...

[Stretch]

ROFL

The completely random 3 month bump aside, "I won't list my reasons but I'm right" post is dumb enough to be funny.

Particularly at end game, regardless of profession, it's first mover wins. Warriors would be one of the LAST professions I would bet on, because:

(1) Low TD
(2) If using sword/board, low damage
(3) Low TD
(4) If using two handers, low defense
(5) No perception
(6) Low TD

[Drisco]

I'm gonna say Sorcerer spelled pretty good with Perception would win.

[Ignot]

At cap it is whoever moves first wins so there is no real answer to the question if your going off of duels. How else would you measure who is more powerful besides dueling?

[Sypher]

When mining/smelting comes out and the veil iron slabs come rolling along then it's going to be a square (prolly rogue) that'll be the most powerful in all situations. A weapon that flares and knocks out the spells your casting is pretty damn awesome.

[AestheticDeath]

Honestly I think the whoever moves thing is not correct. In theory possibly. But in practice there are a lot of things that can go wrong and make that first move pointless. Rogues and warriors could get a failure on their guild or cman attacks, or fail to slip in hiding etc.. Spells can get hindered if your in higher AsG armors.

I think the best bet is a caster with a totally debilitating spell, who does nothing but cast that warding spell first off. And enough perception or the right spells to keep the other guy from hiding or staying hidden, if they hide before the spell goes off.

Casting something along the lines of e-wave, call wind or something could also fail or give such a short RT it wouldn't help. But e-wave or something can be effective at times to get them out of hiding.

[Celephais]

Okay there mich... as a wizard my first "move" is...

inc 916.

You're up.

[Ignot]

well played grasshopper.

[Sean]

When mining/smelting comes out and the veil iron slabs come rolling along then it's going to be a square (prolly rogue) that'll be the most powerful in all situations. A weapon that flares and knocks out the spells your casting is pretty damn awesome.

Veil Iron is just permablessed I don't see why this would be that useful to you. Unless you mean krodera of some sort, in which case good luck with that.

[Celephais]

I think we've all established this is a stupid conversation. The fact that Michaelous bumped it just solidifies that PoV.

Drisco posted it when he was a PC nub, the fact that we've had an influx of new nubs asking stupid unanswerable questions doesn't help... so I expect this thread to see a resurgence of idiocy. :(

[Sthrockmorton]

Dueling is ridiculous test of ability anyways (as 90% of the time, first move wins)

A much more true test of skill would be to throw people into a huge area, at opposite ends, and let them "hunt" each other. Then see who wins. A little more strategy involved.

[Ignot]

that would be fun. lets do that.

[Akari]

My professional opinion...

most powerful dueling profession: paladin (reasons: beseech, nice armor, manuevers, rediculously high AS, rediculously high TD)

most powerful hunting profession: ranged ranger (reasons: natures fury, spike thorn, hiding, arrow to the eye, companion attacks)

most powerful invasion profession: sorcerer (reasons: remote evil eye > cone of lightning)

most powerful dueling spell: focused implosion / spike thorn (equally)
most powerful hunting spell: open implosion, dispel void, open implosion

overall: Sorcerer (reasons: with the use of magic items and scrolls, all spells are accessable to all professions, but none can retribute with a cloak of shadows... except a sorcerer... anyone can kill offensively, but killing defensively makes sorcerers that much more dangerous)

[AestheticDeath]

Damnit, I had a whole post done up then accidentally closed the window.

Suffice to say a majority of the professions have a way to either bring you out of invisibility and hiding, or kill you straight out while you are there.

And you can't win a duel by going defensive. Sometimes it buys you time, but your much better off with a killing spell straight off, rather than going invisible.

Anyhow find some real duelers, and test your skills. Then let us know how it worked out.

We should make a Dueling folder along the lines of the death folder. Death folder is kinda boring - smack!, spells dropping - kinda anti-climatic if you ask me.

[AestheticDeath]

A much more true test of skill would be to throw people into a huge area, at opposite ends, and let them "hunt" each other. Then see who wins. A little more strategy involved.

We did that sort of. Only three of us participated at the time though.

Akari, how is the dueling organization thing coming along? I haven't heard of any other activities being planned.

[Michaelous]

Okay there mich... as a wizard my first "move" is...

inc 916.

You're up.

dont use the numbers use the names of the spell. also i hide, and wait for you to come out and e wave, you e wave and ethier throw a warding spell, or throw some kind of bolt spell, in both cases i have nothing to worry about. you lose. if your anywhere near my train you lose for sure

[FinisWolf]

In a duel, why the hell would a wizard use a crappy bolt spell?

Like Level Duel:

435 Major E-Wave
519 Immolation
... then for a touch of irony ...
514 Stone Fist (To fist em and spank em like the child they are.)

Or (For shits and giggles against weapon wielders)

915 Weapon Fire (So their own weapon works at killing them.)

Sorry, but my point is, it is silly NOT to use your CS, then you completely remove the DS factor, and the EBP factor as well.

:shrug:

Finis

[Michaelous]

In a duel, why the hell would a wizard use a crappy bolt spell?

Like Level Duel:

435 Major E-Wave
519 Immolation
... then for a touch of irony ...
514 Stone Fist (To fist em and spank em like the child they are.)

Or (For shits and giggles against weapon wielders)

915 Weapon Fire (So their own weapon works at killing them.)

Sorry, but my point is, it is silly NOT to use your CS, then you completely remove the DS factor, and the EBP factor as well.

:shrug:

Finis

warded off , you lose

[Gelston]

How would you ward it? Do you get a million spells from buddies? You still would more than likely be hit by the 435 and you could just as easily be boiled to death while on the ground.

[AestheticDeath]

Mich I doubt you would ward a wizards CS as a like level, self spelled warrior.

What level are you, and whats your TD self spelled?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Everyone knows Rangers are the most powerful. Great hiding and spikethorn. Discussion over.

[Asha]

He's a liar, I wouldn't ask him anything.
Plus even a fairly higher trained warrior would still hold a significant chance of failing to ward a wizards CS.

[Drisco]

Drisco posted it when he was a PC nub,

I was just trying to find my way. :(

[FinisWolf]

warded off , you lose

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


How would you ward it? Do you get a million spells from buddies? You still would more than likely be hit by the 435 and you could just as easily be boiled to death while on the ground.

Yes he does, but a well trained wizard would still toast him as most of the spells he gets is DS / AS.


Mich I doubt you would ward a wizards CS as a like level, self spelled warrior.

What level are you, and whats your TD self spelled?

Let's put it this way, him and Rinswynd play all the time with their constant BS dueling. Michaelous wins when Rinswynd is either afk (sitting unarmed ... told Rins that's a tarded move with their constant girl fights) or if he pulls that lucky shot when Rins is just being tarded and is unarmed / offensive. [This is all third party knowledge, Michaelous may actually get Rins, I don't know, but I do know Rins gets Michaelous.]

Summary? Michaelous weakness would be CS. Definetly NOT DS, because of spells.

Curious Michaelous, you still running that sorcerer? If so with a few ranks of AS that would explain alot of the spells you carry.

Finis

[Sypher]

Headbutt to almost any caster even if in stance D is almost a guaranteed victory for a square... unless the caster has an empath buddy.

[Sean]

When did dueling shift to include spells you can't cast on yourself?

[Michaelous]

Mich I doubt you would ward a wizards CS as a like level, self spelled warrior.

What level are you, and whats your TD self spelled?


Ask symmian hes a wizard i killed him in a duel and hes above me by at least a few trains, he couldnt ward me, and his bolt spells sucked. he did go invisibile like a coward, and in fact andraste was on the boulder watching when it happened too, then kallamdor jumped in and i killed him as well. hes also older then i, i think he's a paladin. not sure.

[Gelston]

I'll duel you with my wizard using only 901 against you and win.

[AestheticDeath]

Headbutt to almost any caster even if in stance D is almost a guaranteed victory for a square... unless the caster has an empath buddy.

No its not. :P

Envim was playing around with headbutt with one of the characters I currently own. I was on an older rogue - but still headbutt only gives a level one wound the first time seemingly. I am not sure if it is possible to get a higher wound without stacking it.

But depending on the RT you incur after the headbutt, the caster could still retaliate.

[AestheticDeath]

Ask symmian hes a wizard i killed him in a duel and hes above me by at least a few trains, he couldnt ward me, and his bolt spells sucked. he did go invisibile like a coward, and in fact andraste was on the boulder watching when it happened too, then kallamdor jumped in and i killed him as well. hes also older then i, i think he's a paladin. not sure.

What train was he exactly and what was his CS?
Were you self spelled?
What was your TD?

If he doesnt have 5-6 CS per level he isn't trained as a proper dueler imo. The older you get the lower the CS per lvl will be.

But for mid trains 50-60? I think 6 is still doable. I am assuming you are around that train.

If I still had any wizards I would duel you and see how it went.

[FinisWolf]

When did dueling shift to include spells you can't cast on yourself?

Silvento
Michaelous

Zillion other un-namable n00bs ...

That's when. Nothing anymore is done by one's self.

:shrug:

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

I am not sure if it is possible to get a higher wound without stacking it.It is possible to get a rank 2 head wound with headbutt in one shot. I don't know exactly how likely; my guess is not very.

[Bobmuhthol]

I stopped using headbutt after they took away death crits. :(

[Davenshire]

what the hell wa sup with that anyways? When I left the lands I had head butt and it seemed to kcik ass.

I recently reaquired it with the fixskills and coudn't train out of it fats enough.

It might be ok to some peopel now, but form what I rememebred when I had it, it blows.

[Akari]

I never understood the whole "you can only duel with your own spells" I mean, every spell is my OWN spell if I can cast it from a scroll or a magic item anyways... it's not my fault if you come to a gun fight with a toothpick... I mean, seriously... if we meet down the street after school, and I pull out some brass knuckles, don't whine and cry about it like a little girl, have your friend hand you his switch blade...
Whining about what spells someone has on is no different then whining about them having better gear... if they are going to own you because they have better gear, then GET BETTER GEAR... if they are going to own you because they have "outside" spells on, then GET OUTSIDE SPELLS.

warriors can wear blues all they want, I'm still going to ward them ::shrugs::

[AestheticDeath]

In GS3 if you were not self spelled you were damn near invincible unless you did a POS move like implode or spike. CS is geared in such a way that you could win with it no matter how many spells were on at least at cap. At the younger levels it doesnt work that way though. The TD jumps up alot quicker with outside spells than a like level can get their CS up.

If you have to have outside spells for a duel your a pussy anyhow. But magic items and outside spells are not allowed in 'normal' duels. Which means not only no pure potions, blue crystals, ruby amulets etc.. But no scrolls or imbeds.

[Michaelous]

But magic items and outside spells are not allowed in 'normal' duels. Which means not only no pure potions, blue crystals, ruby amulets etc.. But no scrolls or imbeds.


thats a buncha crap blue crystals and imbeds were allowed as far as i could remeber in the gladiator games, and besides everyone in gemstone gets outside spells, but seriously if you want to be the best you gotta find ways around to be the best.

there were 2 kinds of duels one with magic where all magic was allowed including imbeds, potions , etc. and the other duel where no magic was allowed so no spell casters. so deal with it

[Drisco]

Ask symmian hes a wizard i killed him in a duel and hes above me by at least a few trains, he couldnt ward me, and his bolt spells sucked. he did go invisibile like a coward, and in fact andraste was on the boulder watching when it happened too, then kallamdor jumped in and i killed him as well. hes also older then i, i think he's a paladin. not sure.


Are you seriouse? When I did have to interact with you I pwned your ass and you ran like a sissy to the tsc. Your a joke.

[AestheticDeath]

you must be a fucking newb - real duels (dinghy, boulder) didnt allow imbeds.

Gladiator games were a joke.

[thefarmer]

you must be a fucking newb - real duels (dinghy, boulder) didnt allow imbeds.

Gladiator games were a joke.

When I dueled with Phion, Firephoenix, Nethergarde and co. at the boulder and dinghy we allowed imbeds if there was a caster going up against a non-caster, though most people didn't take advantage of this and used their own skills/spells.

I will point out that the original series of glad games only allowed spells that you could cast/invoke per your level. Meaning you had to be level 40 to use a ruby amulet, level 17 to use a blue crystal. Though again, from the games I witnessed I didn't see too much of them being used there either.

I can't speak for the glad games that I heard had been run recently.

[Michaelous]

Gladiator games were a joke.

and not using imbeds is a joke. ,,dont forget using imbeds is a skill that requires specific training. it would be the same like saying a wizard cant use combat manuvers. if he uses em great, he trained for em, same with imbeds and using magical items, in a duel time is money, so if your goin to spend the time to do an imbed during the duel , then its your choice. that time could be the diffrence between a win or a lose. and the opponent should take it as another factor to deal with.

[Sean]

Dueling with a whole lot of shit to tank you up that isn't in your natural skillset isn't a test of skill it's a test of who has more toys. You might as well sit around and not actually duel but just yell phrases...

Person1: "I rub my ruby amulet and my opals imbed"
Person2: "I rub my wizards shield and haste mage rechargers"
Person1: "I activate my immolation sword"
Person2: "I counter by rubbing my 3x a day camo cloak"
Person1: "I raise my ewave wand!"
Person2: "I input repeated hide/stand commands"
etc.

Theres no real test of skill in that.