Newest rogue endeavor.

[velvetomatoe]

Thinking about starting a new rogue when my friend starts playing so we're on the same level and can hunt together. Played a rogue a long long time ago before all the changes. Can't seem to find a whole lot of info on the subject nowadays so I've a few questions. Here's what I'm looking at:

-Want to pick boxes somewhat above me when hunting gets boring.
-Don't wanna go the thiefin' route.
-Lookin' at blunt weapons because they seem fun.
-Definitely want to go ambushing route.
-Not really interested in spells at all, want as much redux as possible.
-Thinking about Erithian or possibly Elf...any benefit either way or simply preference?

I know I know...seems very cookie cutter so far...but would like to know about CM a little more so maybe I can switch it up there. Not really sure what each of them is/does/benefits. Anyone point me in the right direction?

Any training reccomendations?

Thanks for the help in advance and apologize if this is way overdone. It's late and I can use all the help I can get!

[GuildRat]

2x PT 9/0
1x Armor 5/0
2x Shield 12/0
2x Blunt 6/2
1.5-2x CM 8/8
2x Ambush 4/2
2x Perception 0/3
2x Stalk and Hide 3/3
2x Pick and Disarm 3/3 & 3/3 (triple if you have extra TPs)
-Get about 6 ranks in HP when you have the MTPs
-Pick up spells to 404 for picking over your head when you have the MTPs
-Pick up some AS and MIU when you can afford it

53 PTPs and 24 MTPs if I added right, so you'll be converting if you even have enough TPs to begin with.

Cookie cutter blunt weapon combat rogue

[Gan]

My thoughts...

1x PT
1x Armor
1x Shield
2x Blunt
1x CM
2x Ambush
2x Perception
2x Stalk and Hide
2.5x Pick and Disarm
10 ranks in AS
6 to 10 ranks in Harness Power (COL & Picking)
401, 402, 403, 404


Use Tsoran's spreadsheet if you want a training helper thats based in Microsoft Excel. www.tsoran.com

[StrayRogue]

Why give him spells if he says he doesn't want them?

[Gan]

Why give him spells if he says he doesn't want them?

...

Thinking about starting a new rogue when my friend starts playing so we're on the same level and can hunt together. Played a rogue a long long time ago before all the changes. Can't seem to find a whole lot of info on the subject nowadays so I've a few questions. Here's what I'm looking at:

-Want to pick boxes somewhat above me when hunting gets boring.
-Don't wanna go the thiefin' route.
-Lookin' at blunt weapons because they seem fun.
-Definitely want to go ambushing route.
-Not really interested in spells at all, want as much redux as possible.
-Thinking about Erithian or possibly Elf...any benefit either way or simply preference?

I know I know...seems very cookie cutter so far...but would like to know about CM a little more so maybe I can switch it up there. Not really sure what each of them is/does/benefits. Anyone point me in the right direction?

Any training reccomendations?

Thanks for the help in advance and apologize if this is way overdone. It's late and I can use all the help I can get!

[StrayRogue]

-Not really interested in spells at all, want as much redux as possible.

...

[Gan]

Not to mention that 4 spells will not make any significant difference to redux in the big picture.

And if he/she intends to pick past level 40, then the spells will definately be warranted at 2.5x. As an alternative, he/she could drop spells entirely and beef up to 3x picking/disarm; however, thats not my recommendation based on my experience.

[Gan]

...

Post your suggestion or STFU. You're always quick to critique, but usually dont have shit to contribute.

[velvetomatoe]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, much appreciated. So I guess that brings up the question of 3x picking/disarming vs. spells & 2/2.5x Anyone else have experience with one or the other? Also what CM would you suggest training in? Most fun vs. most practical kind of thing. THanks again.

[StrayRogue]

Or how about read his entire post first, dumbass.

You can pick all the way up to OTF without the lores, simply by 3xing. I don't understand why you think the lores are better as you get less experience using them.

As for a training guide: Why bother? It's a rogue. The only thing unusual he wants is blunts. Substitute edged/ranged/brawl from any normal rogue build and he'll be sorted. Guildrat had it down alright, with the exception of the spells. The only thing I'd change to begin with is 2x PT to 2x Armour. Once he's in either brig, chain, or MBP, switch to PT. His redux in the sub-20's will be so low that armour is much more reliably going to save his ass.

[StrayRogue]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, much appreciated. So I guess that brings up the question of 3x picking/disarming vs. spells & 2/2.5x Anyone else have experience with one or the other? Also what CM would you suggest training in? Most fun vs. most practical kind of thing. THanks again.

3x will get you to the topend of the game. Unless it has changed since GS3, the lores, similar to higher end lockpicks, give you less exp when picking.

I'd personally go with 3x, as that means you don't have to waste time with HP, nor does your low end redux get smashed. It also means you don't have to remove your armour if you're in anything beyond brig.

CMs:
Coup de Grace is good fun. It's been nerfed since I tested it. But still good fun.
Groin Kick: See above.
Cutthroat: Cool, but you'll get a penalty.
Garrote: Pretty sweet.
Wspec, Disarm, Feint: Three highly useful, though more combat orientated skils. I'd have these at higher levels (if only for defense).
Surge: A must have.
Shadow Mastery: Good for hider/ambushers. Pretty useful at lower levels when you suck at hiding.
Mobility: Very handy in a tight spot or if you have shitty armour (brig).

[Gan]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, much appreciated. So I guess that brings up the question of 3x picking/disarming vs. spells & 2/2.5x Anyone else have experience with one or the other? Also what CM would you suggest training in? Most fun vs. most practical kind of thing. THanks again.


If you're going to do some serious picking then I'd recommend 3x plus spells. If its just casual picking then 2.5x. 2x would save you some points, but based on my past experience it sucks, even with 403/404.

My level 87 rogue is starting to drop down from 3x since he's almost maxed out his ability to pick traps (-479 of -480) but he's still going to get ranks in picking until he's moved from -1250 to -1350 which is the max unless there's higher boxes being found in the Temple on Teras.

Hiding is going to be your best defense. You'll want heavy armor until the changes come about (if they ever do) that offset hiding/manueverability. 80 ranks to mbp would be the normal heavy armor route.

I dont have experience with ambushing with blunts since I was a sword/board rogue at first, then moved to archery. Either way hiding is still your best friend.

You'll also want guild ranks in the rogue guild...
sweep
stunmanuevers
cheapshot
gambits
subdue
lockmastery

As far as cmans are concerned... (I may be forgetting a few since my current ones are different for archery)

combat mobility to 2 ranks is a must
surge to 5 ranks
shadow mastery to 5 ranks
silent strike 3 ranks and up
wspecfun/semi important ones

garrote
throatcut
hamstring
shieldbash
feint
dirtkick

[Gan]

You can pick all the way up to OTF without the lores, simply by 3xing.

:lol:

You better save up your coins, you'll need them for some seriously busted picks.

I recommend the lore route. Especially since you can STOP the spell anytime should you determine through lockmastery that you dont need it.

Boxes you'll want to watch out for if you pick from that area without lores.
1. Shan
2. Roa'ter (Varunar)
3. Bonespear
4. Stronghold
5. Skull Temple
6. Mahaagra's Tower

IM me, PM me, or look me up in game (Ganalon) if you have any questions.

[StrayRogue]

As I said, you'll pick fine up til you hit the OTF/Temple boxes.

By time you're 80, you'll have enough points to spend on the lores, should you wish. Or you could suffer for points and redux at the low end. It's your choice.

[StrayRogue]

Another issue with spells, beyond the tp cost, is that to get them quickly, (to make 2x/2.5x picking worthwhile at the low end), you'll need to sacrifice your physical stats for the sheer weight of mtps's you'll be needing. I reckon it would cost something like 600 mtps to maintain the spells, hp, 2.5x picking/disarming alone just for the first 25 levels or so. Compare this to a more balanced cost of 340 ptps/mtps for both skills for 25 levels via tripling.

It's most likely cheaper to get only four spells and 2.5x in the longrun. But thanks to reallocation and interlevel training, this is not a huge problem or concern as it was a long time ago.

[Landrion]

Well, I think he'd want access to the lores for a box thats just dangerous enough to kill him but he still wants to get open. You know the situation, just on the edge but youre too greedy to let go (I know Ive had my ass handed by a rod trap or scarab like that a few times).

As Stray said, you pay a little experience for that safer open, but it beats dieing or snapping your best pick.

So my question in your place would be, is it better to go for disarm/picking enhancement through the spell list or just get the MIU and have some imbeds for it? The self cast is more expensive in TP's, but gives the benefit being able to prep a spell to block a critter that likes to dispell in addition to the small TD from 401. The imbed route is a cheaper skill wise, but a little inconvienent depending on your access to imbeds. The additional benefit of having some MIU is that you could use other imbeds that you find.

Personally, as a warrior, Im going the MIU route because the spell cost is a lot higher and just not worth it to me. A rogue has better costs so its more of a toss-up. Dont neglect the Arcane symbols that both Guildrat and Ganalon reccomended as it helps you with glyphs and scarabs I think.

What would be the deciding factor for me would be whether you want COL or Voln. If youre COL, youre going to need the harness power anyway so thats good for the spells path. If youre voln you might be interested more interested in MIU for the potential hasted-volnfu (though I realize no ones reccomended brawl yet).

[Gan]

Remember that 403/404 imbedded in an item or on a scroll only counts as .5 lore bonus; whereas knowing the spell gives you full benefit vs. the cost.

[vontez]

So i've been trying to figure this out with my rogue, I wanted him to be more combat oriented, so i'm doing 2x armor, until MBP, then 2x PT as per recommended. I'm also doing 1.5x CM, but this doesn't seem like it will do all that much until later levels, because basically everything dies to hide/ambush head anyway.

It seems that 2x picking is worthless, because I can't even really get my level yet, so do you all suggest 2.5x in picking/disarm?

[AestheticDeath]

DEX adds or subtracts to your picking skill, which can severely affect your skill with the lower amount of ranks at younger levels.

Make sure you have at the least a positive DEX, and the higher the better.

Other than that, I had a fine time picking at 2x per train. I dont recall when I actually started.. would have been after lvl 5 though, since rats were the main thing until I could goto something like mant and thraks.

2x per train at level 5 would give you 10-12 ranks, which is 50-58 skill. Add in a decent dex bonus of around 20, and you are picking somewhere around -100 locks with glaes or laje picks. At 16 ranks in picking you can use alum picks, but I dont recommend using them that early. It would not be cost effective, as alum lockpicks are some the the easiest if not THE easiest picks to break.

What level are you right now? What are your stats and skill atm?

[vontez]

Race: Half-Krolvin Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 43 Expr: 202919 Level: 13
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 76 (23) ... 76 (23)
Constitution (CON): 68 (19) ... 68 (19)
Dexterity (DEX): 72 (11) ... 72 (11)
Agility (AGI): 76 (18) ... 76 (18)
Discipline (DIS): 77 (13) ... 77 (13)
Aura (AUR): 82 (16) ... 82 (16)
Logic (LOG): 80 (5) ... 80 (5)
Intuition (INT): 68 (9) ... 68 (9)
Wisdom (WIS): 81 (10) ... 81 (10)
Influence (INF): 29 (-15) ... 29 (-15)


(at level 13), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 82 18
Shield Use.........................| 66 14
Combat Maneuvers...................| 82 18
Edged Weapons......................| 120 30
Ambush.............................| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 82 18
Dodging............................| 117 29
Arcane Symbols.....................| 35 7
Magic Item Use.....................| 35 7
Harness Power......................| 20 4
Disarming Traps....................| 120 30
Picking Locks......................| 120 30
Stalking and Hiding................| 120 30
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 50 10

I just find occasionally i can't get even my own level. maybe i need a better lockpick...

[AestheticDeath]

Kelyn would be about the best pick you can use until you get up to 50 ranks in picking.

What creatures are you hunting? Picks are you using? And what locks are you stumbling over?

With your current Dex stat and picking skills, you should be able to get around a -300 lock. I cant believe anything 15 or under has locks higher than that. But I don't get around to hunting as much as I used to.

[StrayRogue]

You're sub 20. You won't be picking very reliably until you are titled.

[liquiddrool]

My rogue is level 14 right now, been picking since like 5 or so, only until recently(11-12) has it been very reliable. Generally, I pick a box first with a copper or steel to make sure I didn't miss any acid traps, then I pull out the alum and pop it open. I underhunt a couple levels, though.

[velvetomatoe]

Ok to recap what's posted so far:

>2x PT 9/0
>1x Armor 5/0
>2x Shield 12/0
>2x Blunt 6/2
>1.5-2x CM 8/8
>2x Ambush 4/2
>2x Perception 0/3
>2x Stalk and Hide 3/3
>2x Pick and Disarm 3/3 & 3/3 (triple if you have extra TPs)
>-Get about 6 ranks in HP when you have the MTPs
>-Pick up spells to 404 for picking over your head when you have the MTP
>-Pick up some AS and MIU when you can afford it

If I go this route, is it better to do 2x shield and no dodge or 1x shield 2x Dodge? Which is better DS?

Also I was thinking originally Blunt but TWC seems a pretty badass alternative. Would like to hear from anyone who goes the ambush/TWC route as to viability/training plan. Would still like to pick too if possible although would sacrifice to pick under my level to still be able to hunt sufficiently and yet be able to pick for others under my level when I'm bored.

Going for stats at cap:
Elf

STR: 62 - 100
CON: 82 - 100
DEX: 49 - 100
AGL: 33 - 100
DIS: 82 - 100
AUR: 70 - 98
LOG: 73 - 100
INT: 62 - 100
WIS: 88 - 100
INF: 59 - 88

Any suggestions?

[GuildRat]

I think I'd go 1x shield and 2x dodge, the DS difference isn't that big of a deal, but dodge is cheaper on PTPs. It'd be 4/0 and 8/0 for shield vs. 2/1 and 4/2 for dodge.

That way it's 10/3 as 2x shield is 12/0.

[StrayRogue]

TWC is fine after the first 25 levels or so. During your formative levels it's just too much of a pain; your DS will suck, you won't be in heavy armour, and you'll have no redux to speak off.

[velvetomatoe]

TWC is fine after the first 25 levels or so. During your formative levels it's just too much of a pain; your DS will suck, you won't be in heavy armour, and you'll have no redux to speak off.

Good to know..maybe I'll just go the one route until then and fixskills it later.