Official: Web Update Proposal

[Fallen]

Web Proposal · on 3/3/2007


This is what the development team has decided on for our proposal of the spell 118, Web.

The spell will have three versions:

Warding Version:

This is classic (current) Web, with some modifications.

The duration for web will be significantly increased. Unlike currently, this duration would be stackable with new, successful casts on the target up to a max duration of 60 seconds. There would also be an inherent 25 TD pushdown for the target of Web.

Open Cast Version:

The caster can simply CAST Web and it will generage a large sticky web in the room that lasts 5 minutes or until it runs out of snare charges. A fresh web will have 2 snare charges plus one additional charge at 5/15/30/50/75/105/140/180 ranks of Spiritual Lore, Spirit Summoning.

Everytime a creature enters into or attacks in a room with the web, there will be a chance that the target will have to ward against getting stuck in the web (with the 25 TD pushdown and same duration as warding version). Everytime a creature exits the room with the web, there will be a significant chance for the warding attempt. Attacking in the room with a web also affects players not grouped with the caster.

A snare charge is expired whenever a ward is attempted, regardless of outcome.

Bolt Version:

This version is accessible with 20 ranks of Spiritual Lore, Spirit Summoning.

When cast from a stance higher than guarded, webbing shoots forcefully at the target causing damage and potential knockdown. Additionally, the target has a chance to be struck with enough webbing to be ensnared by it for a time (less than the warding version, but still significant). Training in Spiritual Lore, Spirit Summoning increases the chance of webbing the target by 1% per 2 ranks. Casting this version of the spell costs 9 mana.

Additionally, there will be some interactions with other spells, but they'll be mostly for flavor and we're still working out the details.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[Fallen]

Looks to be a fantastic update to the spell. I just hope the warding based option remains available in sanctuaries to deal with Scarabs.

[Bobmuhthol]

How does a bolt of webbing cause damage?

[Latrinsorm]

I wish I remembered which GM claimed on the official boards that a "cornering" maneuver that did exactly what the open web thing does was unfeasible.

I love the AvD-style "this gets a +25 pushdown because um... just because".

Anyway, it does sound cool, and I can't wait until a griefer leaves an open web in every room of a hunting area, or a town. Good times!

[Latrinsorm]

How does a bolt of webbing cause damage?It's got "ew, yucky" flares. Don't they teach you anything at e-Stanford?

[Fallen]

Anyway, it does sound cool, and I can't wait until a griefer leaves an open web in every room of a hunting area, or a town. Good times! >>

Not in town, as it will give an EVP fine for use. I think they should just make the open effect player friendly.

[Kitsun]

If it were player friendly, I'd web down all of OTF just for shits and giggles.

[Drew]

Anyway, it does sound cool, and I can't wait until a griefer leaves an open web in every room of a hunting area, or a town. Good times!


In town it wouldn't affect other PCs unless they were attacking.

[Miss X]

Looks good. <3 Oscuro.

Also, Drews sig rules.

[Drew]

Also, Drews sig rules.



Thank you, thank you very much.

[Fallen]

>>1. SS Lore Increasing the chance of a web forming on the bolt version, okay, what about DF? Every other bolt spell in the game (other than the acids) has a corresponding lore that increases the DF of the spell. Is it such a given that you failed to mention it?

This is not the case for the Web bolt. We decided to go with an alternate use of summoning lore w/ the bolt and that is to increase the success of webbing the target with the bolt.

>>2. Flying creatures tumble down when webbed right?

Yes. The area web will not affect currently flying creatures, however.

>>3. Whats the ETA to go from proposal to implementation?

Sometime between now and next year. ;) I honestly have no idea. I'm working diligently on the code for it now, but there are a lot of system interactions and you never know how long QC will take, since it's really easy to overlook stuff in the initial coding phase. So the real answer is: It'll be out as soon as I can get it out.

>>4. You mentioned a lowering of the mana cost for the bolt version, excellent, I assume that the other 2 forms are still 18 mana?

Yes.

>>5. I don't know how the whole invasion system works for when you make spells okay to cast within town during an invasion that aren't normally allowed, but if you manually have to ad spells to that list... don't forget web.

No problem.

>>6. On the bolt version what is the base % for a web forming?

Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the time for a like-level opponent.

>>7. please workup a revision this nifty for Disease.

Nilven, Estild and I actually discuss disease a lot in our empath/cleric team meetings. There are a lot of ideas being thrown around, but Disease is not yet Nilven's main focus.

I also want to take this time to say that I'm not the only one who came up with this proposal. It was a collective effort by me, Estild, Nilven, Mestys, the players on the forums, and especially Warden (he really does love you guys).

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[Drew]

, and especially Warden (he really does love you guys).


Unless you own a nice item that you worked hard for, then... go f*ck yourself.

[Back]

Looks good. <3 Oscuro.

Also, Drews sig rules.

Whats up with that avatar? Did you join a nationalist party?

[Numbers]

Shitty.

Mass web is just a boosted version of Ice Patch.

The bolt needing 20 ranks of summoning to use is lame, and there are usually better alternatives anyway.

[Latrinsorm]

In town it wouldn't affect other PCs unless they were attacking.Thank God I never leave town with my sissy (non-warrior) classes.

Oh, Warden was in on this? PURESTONE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Miss X]

Whats up with that avatar? Did you join a nationalist party?

As if! It's the Manchester City Football Club sign! Hence the MCFC!

[Nieninque]

LOL @ MCFC

They are like an old bra

No cups and little support

[Makkah]

Liverpool, plz

[StrayRogue]

LMAO. Go raiders.

[TheEschaton]

Ugh, I support the same team as Makkah?

The one thing I miss most about Africa: there would only be 1 tv within a 20km distance, and it was invariably tuned to Premier League football.

-TheE-

[Fallen]

>>Assuming you're staying in Illistim, and will be hunting the Temple, that CS could make aimed 708 a rough go for awhile, especially on the dogs, so you may want to try different knockdowns.

The web bolt is a rather reliable knockdown. ;)

>incant 118
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Web spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a hunch-backed dogmatist.
You shoot strands of webbing at a hunch-backed dogmatist!
AS: +349 vs DS: +198 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +100 = +295
... and hit for 107 points of damage!
Chest strike. Opponent knocked down and stunned!
The hunch-backed dogmatist is knocked to the ground!
The hunch-backed dogmatist is stunned!
A hunch-backed dogmatist is firmly webbed in place.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[Fallen]

>>Her bolt AS is about 100 points lower than that cast. Got anything with a 195 end roll to show off?

How about this?

>incant 118
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Web spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a hunch-backed dogmatist.
You shoot strands of webbing at a hunch-backed dogmatist!
AS: +349 vs DS: +274 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +45 = +164
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Strike to foot! The hunch-backed dogmatist hops around dizzily on other foot and falls.
The hunch-backed dogmatist is knocked to the ground!
The hunch-backed dogmatist is stunned!
A hunch-backed dogmatist is firmly webbed in place.

>>Got a mass version to tease us with?

Yes. Too bad I'm not going to use it for such evil. ;) You can see it during the release event.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[Fallen]

>>Can we get a hint when that might be coming down the pike? <smiles hopefully>

Sometime between today and Simucon. If all goes well. :P

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[Paradii]

So do we get to swing from building to building after 50 ranks of Summoning? My spider sense is tingling with anticipation.

[Latrinsorm]

I'd want to see the crit table with proning information before I fell in with the "reliable" knockdown line.

[Landrion]

I'd want to see the crit table with proning information before I fell in with the "reliable" knockdown line.

No joke, for 18 mana it better be pretty honkin ridiculous.

[StrayRogue]

The bolt version isn't 18 mana.

[Landrion]

The bolt version isn't 18 mana.

Oh youre right, the bolt is just 9. Well, thats more reasonable than fire spirit I guess.

[Drew]

The bolt version is 18 mana.


Are you sure? I thought that was 9 mana.

[StrayRogue]

Sorry, I missed a question mark. I'm a twat. Corrected.

[The Ponzzz]

Maybe with this change, they are fixing ensnare crit table as well!?

[Latrinsorm]

What's wrong with the ensnare crit table?

[The Ponzzz]

Hahaha, it doesn't work?

Need a 350+ endroll to activate it.

Nets don't ensnare properly, nor do bolas.

Ever get hit by a creature who uses ensnare and does 17 damage with a 400+ endroll you and don't get stunned or have a minor?

[The Ponzzz]

You throw a tightly-woven throwing net at a rolton!
AS: +330 vs DS: +5 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +21 = +371
... and hit for 23 points of damage!
Just like a brick to the head, without the imprint.
The rolton is stunned!

See, the net is SUPPOSE to knock down the target regardless of the location hit. And I was wrong, it's 375+ end rolls.

[The Ponzzz]

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a tightly-woven throwing net into flight.
You throw a tightly-woven throwing net at a kobold!
AS: +330 vs DS: +23 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +58 = +390
... and hit for 21 points of damage!
Strike to forehead causes the kobold momentary dizziness.
The kobold is knocked to the ground!
The kobold is stunned!

Aha, see, there. The 390 ensnared.

[Latrinsorm]

Ever get hit by a creature who uses ensnare and does 17 damage with a 400+ endroll you and don't get stunned or have a minor?Actually no, creature ensnares are famous for stunning on very low endrolls without minors. The ensnare attack has respectable DFs, it's the net DF that's the problem. You can have any crit table you want, a sub-.100 DF is not going to make an effective weapon.

[The Ponzzz]

it's not damage I'm talking about, ensnare was always intended to knock down creatures on low rolls, no matter what location you hit. The problem was that bolas would only do it on legs.

And, I've never been stunned by a high end roll ensnare, or even a low one. Guess I'm lucky.

[Fallen]

As the two snippets showed you, both endrolls resulted in a knockdown and stun, with a webbed effect.

[AestheticDeath]

Its a net. Thats piles of string, possibly getting large enough to be called rope.

Its light, its woven fabric or filaments etc.. whatever. It shouldnt be doing anymore damage than it already does. All nets do is hinder a target, normally causing them to fall to the ground, or in the case of the tree trap nets, gathering you up in the air.

The fact that the WEB spell, being made into a bolt and doing as much damage as those snippets showed really doesn't make any kind of logical sense to me.

I personally don't think the spiritual spheres should have bolt spells at all. The flare spell being able to be aimed as a bolt spell makes sense, though I dont think the spiritual classes should be able to double in spell aiming.

Its the spiritual classes or spheres which should be primarily based on CS attacks, if they are to be geared more towards magic. And oddly enough the spiritual spheres are the only ones which dont get some sort of spell to raise CS. I always thought it was stupid myself.

[Latrinsorm]

And, I've never been stunned by a high end roll ensnare, or even a low one. Guess I'm lucky.Excuse my skepticism, but have you ever hunted a like-level creature that ensnares?
it's not damage I'm talking about, ensnare was always intended to knock down creatures on low rolls, no matter what location you hit.No crit table is going to do anything with rank 0 crits, that's just crazy. If you need to get a rank 1 or higher crit, you need to do a certain amount of raw damage, period. It may be accurate to say that ensnare's knockdown chances are subpar compared to other crit tables, but unless you have a proning table for at least ensnare and the melees, I don't see how we can make any reasonable comparisons and I definitely can't see how you can call it broken.

I don't think I'm making my point very well in just how low this DF is that we're talking about. Even if we assume the crits in the posted hits do 0 crit damage (some ensnare crits above rank 0 do [though I doubt these ones are part of that set]), we're talking about a .080 DF versus skin (worse than a closed fist!!). That's pretty much the same as a dagger versus plate. It could be that the net is like the old reverse claw table Krakii goes on about, but I doubt it. My guess is nets are just horrible weapons in the GS3 and 4 paradigms. It sounds like something that would have worked great in II, but it doesn't mean the ensnare table has something wrong with it.

[The Ponzzz]

As the two snippets showed you, both endrolls resulted in a knockdown and stun, with a webbed effect.

The first did not, only stunned. It was also a rolton.


Excuse my skepticism, but have you ever hunted a like-level creature that ensnares?

Yup, hunted vor'taz at level 38, and mammoth spiders in spider temple at 15.

And perhaps where I'm coming from seems out of left field.

It was told in 2003 that nets and bolas would offer BENEFITs such as ensnare/grapples to knock down foes with extremely low rolls. And nets would have GREAT benefits of knocking foes down and binding it while the net was stuck on them.

Sorry if what i said was odd, it's just been something we were told several years ago, and I was hoping that this was the start of the fix. I understand nets are horrible.

Net .060 .060 .035 .045 .016 7 GRAPPLE 45/160

Grapple/ensnare was suppose to be an added benefit. Crits and DF aside.

[Fallen]

The first did not, only stunned. It was also a rolton. >>

Dogmatist, actually.

[Fallen]

Its the spiritual classes or spheres which should be primarily based on CS attacks, if they are to be geared more towards magic. And oddly enough the spiritual spheres are the only ones which dont get some sort of spell to raise CS. I always thought it was stupid myse>>

425?

[Latrinsorm]

Yup, hunted vor'taz at level 38, and mammoth spiders in spider temple at 15.I encourage you to look through your logs for the following messages.

Arm lock.
Chest grapple, decent grip.
Decent blow to the head, may leave a bruise.
Leg grapple, twisted ankle but you are not knocked down.
Weak eye gouge, stings.
Weak grapple around the neck bruises windpipe.

Ensnare is a great stunner.
It was told in 2003 that nets and bolas would offer BENEFITs such as ensnare/grapples to knock down foes with extremely low rolls. And nets would have GREAT benefits of knocking foes down and binding it while the net was stuck on them.Like I said, any GM who thought that was going to happen with all nets fundamentally misunderstood the GemStone IV combat system. It sounds to me like what they were talking about is Khaladon's net flares.
Net .060 .060 .035 .045 .016 7 GRAPPLE 45/160That's just gross. :\

[Andreal]

Its the spiritual classes or spheres which should be primarily based on CS attacks, if they are to be geared more towards magic. And oddly enough the spiritual spheres are the only ones which dont get some sort of spell to raise CS. I always thought it was stupid myse>>

425?


Which is in the minor elemental circle, and not a spiritual sphere.

[Fallen]

Which is in the minor elemental circle, and not a spiritual sphere. >>

Ah, My bad. Major Spiritual has 240 (or whichever spell that provides an insane boost to CS on successive attacks) Spirit Slayer, isn't it? Also, there is the Paladin spell 1612, Champion's might. While that is in a profession circle, said circle is spiritual based.

[The Ponzzz]

The first did not, only stunned. It was also a rolton. >>

Dogmatist, actually.

I was speaking of my clips, not the other ones.

[Fallen]

Oh. The spell doesn't look to use the ensnare table at all. I believe it uses unbalance.

[The Ponzzz]

Yea, sadly I was told the grapple table is far too fuct to fix due to the kinda thing Latrin brought up.

[Latrinsorm]

If nets having a low DF means the grapple table is broken, the closed fist means the crush and slash tables are broken. There's nothing wrong with ensnare.

[AestheticDeath]

Which is in the minor elemental circle, and not a spiritual sphere. >>

Ah, My bad. Major Spiritual has 240 (or whichever spell that provides an insane boost to CS on successive attacks) Spirit Slayer, isn't it? Also, there is the Paladin spell 1612, Champion's might. While that is in a profession circle, said circle is spiritual based.

Actually that doesnt boost your CS at all as far as I know. It summons a spirit, and there is a chance that spirit will recast whatever you cast with a higher CS than yours.

And champions might.. its something I didn't think of - but its also only for paladins unless you steal the spell from them.

The argument I was trying to make was geared towards the empaths and clerics. They need something akin to 425.

[Paradii]

Actually that doesnt boost your CS at all as far as I know. It summons a spirit, and there is a chance that spirit will recast whatever you cast with a higher CS than yours.

And champions might.. its something I didn't think of - but its also only for paladins unless you steal the spell from them.

The argument I was trying to make was geared towards the empaths and clerics. They need something akin to 425.

Are clerics having trouble warding like level creatures? I never noticed that as a problem.

[AestheticDeath]

I dont play clerics at the moment. And its not about having a problem warding. Its just one of those "his is bigger than mine" types of things. I see no reason why a wizard should be able to get 50 CS higher than spiritual professions.

Also, I havent been hunting the Nelemar temple recently but I got the impression some of the TDs in there, mostly on water elementals or something like that are insanely high.

At the moment the capped empath I have has her CS maxed and she has no trouble warding things in OTF. But thats only because she has 300 spell ranks. Over half of which are in her main circle. You should HAVE to fully triple spells just to get a CS that isnt so crappy.

Also, most of the things in OTF are under her level. The oldest thing, griffins dont even wear spells so its a moot point there. As far as younger characters hunting like level things I would assume its harder to ward everything as easily.

[Fallen]

I dont play clerics at the moment. And its not about having a problem warding. Its just one of those "his is bigger than mine" types of things. I see no reason why a wizard should be able to get 50 CS higher than spiritual professions.>>

Ever See Elemental TDs? They are Fing horrible. As for the spirit slayer argument. That is semantics. It is a CS booster.

[StrayRogue]

Yep, you get a min. +25 CS which can be increased. Web is a minor spiritual spell, which people don't exactly over train. It's never an incapacitation spell that I've used over bind, or 1108.