Parents VS Parents

[Caiylania]

Opinions please.

I was at a friends house a few days ago and we were all having a good time, even with 7 children, 6 under the age of 3, running around.

My daughter, the youngest at just a year, got bumped around a bit but no big deal. Everyone told the kids to calm down now and then but no huge fuss.

I'm sitting on the couch with my daughter on my lap when the 5 year old next to me (a cute little girl) turns around to get off the couch and knocks into me and Kiara. It was just an accident, but I wanted her to say she was sorry, not becase she did anything wrong, but just to help her learn to be more careful. She is 5 after all.

Well she either didn't hear me or ignored me so I called her name again and I know she heard me but she kept going. It was a bit annoying to have a child I watch ignore me when I wasn't even mad at her so I called her name again and asked her to come here. I was going to explain, Hey hon, you bumped into me and Kiara, can you say your sorry?

So I gave it one last shot and asked her to come over and apologize. Her Mom went nuts on me. She told me to stop yelling at her child, that Ashley hadn't done anything wrong and I was being an ass.

Before anyone jumps on me, I will admit, since she wasn't mine maybe I should have dropped it. But I feel that at 5 years old a child is old enough to learn to watch out for other people and apologize. I was NOT mad at her, I was even going to tease her after.

So anyway, the mom started yelling at me and I tried to reply, saying that I wasn't yelling at her, or was even mad at her. The mom kept yelling saying she didn't do anything wrong and that my baby wasn't even hurt so what was my fucking problem. I told her that I know it had just been an accident and I was going to just ask her to be more careful. It got really heated and the night went down the drain. It went on for a bit but I won't get into the whole thing. The last things I said to her were that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION parents who don't make their kids respect other adults are the reason so many kids grow up being jerks and that if she had stopped for one second to ask me what was going on, or at least pulled me aside she might have not gone anal on me. That it wasn't about Kiara getting hurt, it was about teaching kids to be more careful and to say they are sorry. Ooohh.

So my questions are.. IS 5 old enough to learn to watch out and to apologize?

Was I wrong?

Should parents, within reason, allow others to correct their kids?

If it had been my daughter, I would have let her get Kiara to say she was sorry.

I repeat, just in case, I was NOT mad. Ashley is a very sweet little girl.

Hope I made this clear, not the best at explaining things. Flaming and opinions begin now.....

[Betheny]

My answer: Don't have kids.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Lady Daina
I personally think you were within your rights to expect the child to apologize.

I might have, after watching the child ignore me once or twice, asked the child's mother to intervene. That may have alleviated the problem, or it might have made her feel like you were telling her how to parent. Hard to say without being there, but five is PLENTY old enough to have some manners and respect.


That is what I think, but if you had heard her, its like she thought her daughter was to young to understand and be held accountable. :thumbsdown:

[GS4Gurl]

Five years old is plenty old enough to have a little bit of manners, but her blatantly ignoring you shows a lack of respect. The mother going off on you like a crazy wench tells you the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Some people can't handle simple advice or correction these days. People get too defensive over the littlest things. The fact that the mother didn't give you a chance to simply explain the situation is really a shame.

[EmpressBtch]

I believe that five is old enough to distinguish between right and wrong. Maybe not as consistently as an adult would but to some extent. I think the biggest part of how today's children are turning out is also society's fault. I was brought up in the "Its okay to spank your child" generation and now suddenly even a pat on the bottom will get protective services called on you. I have taught my son the difference and he's still learning but he has manners, one of the things he was taught since he started talking. And yes, he gets spanked but I also think most of the children today aren't disciplined.

[HarmNone]

Personally, I do not think you did anything wrong. A child needs to learn discipline and responsibility for their actions. These lessons should begin, in my opinion, as soon as the child is mobile, since a child is unaware of what might constitute a danger and must be taught what he/she can or cannot touch.

Sounds to me like the mother of this child is just as undisciplined as her child. ::shrug::

HarmNone

[Caiylania]

She didn't give me a moment to respond, I thought she would pass out from lack of breathing she was yelling at me so long without pause.

I smack Kiara's hands when she ignores me saying No and is trying to get stuff she shouldn't. I don't think its cruel, it teaches her No and respect, and may save her life one day because she will know what is ok and what isn't to mess with while at places where I can't control what is in her reach.

I just made me so mad, I mean, she was my friend. I stood by her through tough times and she never once acted like this before. Even if she apologized though, which she won't, I wouldn't make up. I'm not going to hang around with someone who thinks its okay to let her kids be disrespectful. It isn't their fault, its hers.

My other beef, which I wasn't even thinking of at the time, is who cares that Kiara wasn't hurt? That wasn't the point. If kids don't learn to be careful of other children, especially smaller ones, then a baby WILL get hurt.

Its about prevention, teaching bigger kids to be careful helps keep smaller ones safe. Its not mean, its being a good parent.

[Black Jesus]

its not your job to discipline other peoples' kids. i would have ignored you too if i was the kid.

[Artha]

You should've hit the kid. And the mom.

[Weedmage Princess]

Like Daina said, the only thing you probably should have done is get the mother involved. Other than that..yes, at 5 years old, a child should atleast have enough respect to say "I'm sorry" if they bump into someone.

I don't want to judge the lady, I hate it when people do that and throw around the term "bad parent" so much...it's horrible...but...this lady needs to realize that all children make mistakes, and that her "perfect little angel" needs to take responsibility for her actions...just like everyone else.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Black Jesus
its not your job to discipline other peoples' kids. i would have ignored you too if i was the kid.

Why? Give a reason.

[HarmNone]

Heh. To formulate a reason would require cognizant thought. I do not think that is even a remote possibility in this case. :D

HarmNone

[Weedmage Princess]

*wanders in with a white sign with big, bright red letters which reads: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS." She thrusts the sign into the ground, dusts it off, then wanders off*

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
*wanders in with a white sign with big, bright red letters which reads: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS." She thrusts the sign into the ground, dusts it off, then wanders off*

ROFL

Beautiful lettering there. But with kids these days, they won't bother to read the sign, if they do they will ignore it, and feed the trolls. Then the trolls will break out and eat them all.

[Gan]

Its obvious where the child gets the lack of dicipline from, her mom. I bet she's the type that lets her kids run rampant in restaurants bugging other folks while they ignore them and eat. The parent just reinforced a behavior/ideal into her child that its not important what other adults tell her, whether it was to come back and apologize or whether it was not to run out into the busy street...

We cant blame all of the world's problems on bad or inept parenting, but its a good start... then when you're old enough to know better we can find your inner child and kick its little ass.

[Savanae]

This reinded me on the other night at my sisters. Her daughter, now five, is the closest I will ever have to having my own child. She is very bright and pretty quick on the draw when it comes to things.

She is in that 'But" stage now. 'But Mom. But I dont want to." ect. Proceeds every other sentence coming from her.

Anyway she was putting up a fuss about getting ready for bed. It went on a few moments and my sister was getting no where with her at the moment. My neice once again dug her heels not wanting to coroperate when four resounding 'Now's' echoed from the adults in the room.

After my neice scampered away and my sister chuckled about there being four Mommy's in the room, I promptly apoligised to her as well as my husband. She shook it off saying she knows it's habbit since we watcher her almost as much as she does and that we are just as much a parent to the child as she is.

I am lucky that she is understanding in those situations. I admit it is hard to sit back and not say anything when she acts up like that. I am much to used to being alone with her that it has become second nature to corect her and get her moving in the right direction. I am very lucky my sister is understanding.

[AnticorRifling]

Sue the mother, claim the kid ran into your baby causing physical damage. Next time the bitch will pull her head out of her ass and realize that saying sorry isn't only right but it's often the easiest way.

My children will not have disrespectful friends. I will send them home crying to liberal daddy and tree-hugging mommy.

[Soulpieced]

I think it's because kids just don't get disciplined correctly anymore. Yes I was spanked when I was little, and I'm sure a lot of you here on the boards probably were too. Granted that's not the only thing, but I feel the mom in this case was a serious bitch. Who gives a damn if someone is trying to learn your kid some respect. Obviously means the child isn't getting it from someone else...

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
My children will not have disrespectful friends. I will send them home crying to liberal daddy and tree-hugging mommy.

Heh. There are few people more "liberal" than I, I would imagine. I also place a very high value on trees, for reasons that will remain undiscussed here. ;)

However, my children were disciplined, as was I (my mother is as liberal, if not more so, as I). Liberalism has not a whit to do with child-raising, you irascible curmudgeon! :D

HarmNone is liberal, not irresponsible

[Warriorbird]

My child will not have disrespectful friends. I will send them home crying to repressed Mommy and hypocritical church going Daddy.

Come on now, Anticor, raising your kids properly is more a matter of the person not being an idiot than political idealogy.

[Edited on 11-16-2003 by Warriorbird]

[Soulpieced]

All the faults in the world can be blamed on the liberrrrral democrats.

Rushpieced

[Bestatte]

Caveat: I eat my young and believe that a) children should be in military school, b) adults should require a license to breed, and c) corporal punishment should be reinstated in the school system.

And now I'll try to be as unbiased as I possibly can, given my "tough love" stance on rearing children that I'll never have.

I think the mother of Ashley was in the wrong from the get-go. You shouldn't have felt any need to discuss the situation with the little girl. That is her mother's job. If she fails to do so, then she doesn't deserve to be a mother and should have her child removed from her custody.

Yes, it's harsh. But ya know what? It's a harsh fucking world out there and as soon as parents stop molly-coddling their kids and teach them to behave themselves, maybe the world will start returning to a safe place for kids to grow up again.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
All the faults in the world can be blamed on the liberrrrral democrats.

Rushpieced

Heh. Only because the Republican conservatives have to have someone to cast the blame on. Diety forbid they have to get any on them! :D

HarmNone says: "Hush, Soulpie. Just hush!" ::smooch::

[Black Jesus]

spare the rod spoil the child

[Ladyteeoncy]

If it was my parent....They wouldnt be yelling at you...they would be saying get your ass back here and apoligize...especially since i was in YOUR house.

When i was 4 my pops dislocated my shoulder cause i was acting out in a crowd.

[SpunGirl]

You didn't do anything wrong, IMO. This is the same mother that is going to be in the principle's office when her daughter is 16, screaming that it's the school's fault her kid is pregnant and on drugs.

I'll give an example: My husband teaches Jr. High. He was trying to get 120 kids (with ONE of him) from 2 P.E. classes in line and ready to go for the bell the other day. A kid who had been causing problems the entire period complained that another kid was yelling in his ear. He replied, "Switch places in line and ignore him," and he told the other kid to keep his thoughts to himself.

The first kid went back to the SAME place in line, the second kid kept yelling, and the first kid slapped the yelling kid three times.

Now the father of the slapper is demanding to know why my husband didn't "stop" his son from slapping another kid. WTF.

Kids raised like this will never be held accountable for anything. I feel your pain, C.

-K

[Snapp]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents like that Caiy.

A few days ago, there were 2 kids running around the store I work in like wild maniacs (a normal occurance sadly) and they knocked over some of our gift items which broke. All I said to the kids was "Please stop running." Don't you know, the mother turns the corner, and literally CUSSES me out! I explained that they broke some items from running around the store, and she had the NERVE to say "No they didnt!!" I told her, "Ma'am, they're on the floor." Well it just pissed her off more, she cusses me out for "yelling" at her kids, and said she'd never shop there again (by the way, she was in today.... alone).

I hope this isn't a reflection of our future, parents like that just piss me off to no end.

[JustMe]

If it was my kid, I would have been upset for you yelling at him/her. You should have asked once or twice and then talked to the mother about it or let the situation go. It is really not your responsibility to disclipine others kids with the parent sitting right there, unless of course you have that kind of a relationship with the parent.

By the way, how would the kid know if you're mad or not if you're just yelling their name. Kids usually run when they think you're mad and they can't tell a difference when you have your voice raised.

[Caiylania]

Wow, thankyou. I was hoping I wasn't going nuts but maybe now and then I AM right.

Some of the stories that you all have shared amaze me, my mom, who was over all very lenient, would have wupped my ass. As for the broken stuff, I would have had to earn the money to pay the store.

A funny thing, I ran into a mutal friend of ours today. Guess what she told me? Ashley stole something from the store. Her mom had to take her back in there and return it.

*shakes head sadly*

[Edited on 11-17-2003 by Caiylania]

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by JustMe
If it was my kid, I would have been upset for you yelling at him/her. You should have asked once or twice and then talked to the mother about it or let the situation go. It is really not your responsibility to disclipine others kids with the parent sitting right there, unless of course you have that kind of a relationship with the parent.

By the way, how would the kid know if you're mad or not if you're just yelling their name. Kids usually run when they think you're mad and they can't tell a difference when you have your voice raised.


The first few times I said her name was to get her attention, I wasn't mad nor did I yell at her. I raised my voice to get across the din of 5 other kids running around after she didn't respond.

I didn't have a chance to talk to her mom, because that is when she starting yelling and screaming at me. I was NEVER mad at Ashley, I just wanted her to apologize for not being more careful and bumping into us. A small accident, it was no big deal.

Her mom didn't even stop long enough for me to explain anything. She didn't hear what happened, only heard me raising my voice.

I can understand, perhaps, not wanting me to ask her child to be polite (Sarcasm here) but when she became upset she should have pulled me to the side and discussed it, not go Nuclear in front of all the kids and our friends.

I wasn't going to spank or touch
Ashley, I was going to ask for her to apologize, if she hadn't THEN I was going to let it go and bring it up to her mom later.

[SpunGirl]

In any case, her mom also had no business flipping out on you. You also mentioned she said a naughty word. I'll be the first to admit I have a pottymouth, but when I have kids I'll never talk like that in front of them. I also don't talk like that in front of my young cousins, kids, parents, grandparents, et cetera.

-K

[Caiylania]

Yeah, that caught me a bit too. I overall think she showed her own kids an attitude that they will copy.

[Just Lurking]

I think you were in the right and the whacko mom, who was also your friend, was in the wrong.

I can't believe a friend would embarrass you like that and set a horrible example in front of her own children. I'd never go there again.

I have a "spirited" 4 year old boy and I don't mind if he is corrected by others. No spanking or hitting, of course. But, if I see it happen I'll even back the other parent up and make my child apologise. Most parents I know are the same way.

Ditch your friend, she was way out of line.

My two cents...

[Lord Deprav]

Just in a response, no two people are alike. People always have different ideas/things on their mind. And hey guess what!?!? Its her kid. Your in the wrong. Just like her kid, she was in the wrong. Have to be careful with how you put things. Some people look at teaching their kids right and wrong should only be done by them.

Deprav

[Caiylania]

That is basicly it Daina, I wasn't going to hit, spank, or otherwise punish her child. She didn't even stop to ask what was going on. If she had just pulled me aside and said," I don't feel its your place to correct my daughter" I would have backed off, though then I STILL wouldn't hang around her anymore.

Its against who I am, I won't be around someone who will let their kids walk all over me and be rude.

We aren't talking and that is fine by me.

[Wezas]

Damn young kids these days, they need a good forking.
No, not that sickos... forking:

http://supak.com/images/ama_pitchfork.gif

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Wezas
Damn young kids these days, they need a good forking.
No, not that sickos... forking:


Hey, you're the guy who bought the Michael Jackson record. :saint:

Kids are stupid. They don't realize they're stupid until later in life. Nothing you do will make them realize they're stupid.

Adults are stupid. They don't realize they're stupid until later in life. Nothing you do will make them realize they're stupid.

Fax of life. I blame it on soft drinks and the designated hitter.