Modern Theology: what do you believe?

[Halfsilver]

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, about the beliefs of people today.

He's a devout christian, and says all of his friends are. Which brought to mind my girlfriend, who is also very religious. They pray on a routine. Every morning for at least 15-20 minutes, before every meal, and before bed at night...with prayers during the day for different things.

Since I've been with my girlfriend, I've come to have more faith in a higher power, which isn't saying much, because I used to consider myself agnostic.
Basically, what I believe is that there IS a god in some form or another. I like to think that god is like a collective of all the knowledge and experiences of people who have lived before me. I definitely do NOT believe in religion. If I'm going to believe, I will do so in my own way and on my own terms. I think that churches use the money donated to them for clergy paychecks and church expansions.

I think my view on churches probably stems from the fact that when I was young, my parents and I attended a church that seemed to me more of an adult popularity contest than a place of devotion and prayer and sanctity. People were so snobby and competitive. "I had this suit 'tailored'. 'Have you seen my new SUV?'

Anyways, I was just curious as to what, if anything, everyone here believes in. And what the general consensus is on Church and religion these days.

- D

[Bobmuhthol]

Jesus = Person. Jesus != MAGICAL UBER BEING.

I am atheist. I rule. I do not believe in a God at all. I'm not one of those crazy guys who says "when someone proves it I'll believe it." If there is a God, too bad. I don't believe in Him/Her/It/One.

[Izalude]

I believe there may have been an all-powerful being at one time that created the Universe... but this person or thing has moved on, and is not guiding our way through our lives as many religions teach. But if this person or being created everything, then what created him or her?

Big Bang Theory - Okay, that's the creation of the universe as we know it... but what existed prior to Big Bang, and how did it get there?

I was raised in a non-practicing catholic house. I once asked my father about his beliefs, as he grew up as a devout catholic. He was heavily involved with his Church up until his brothers were killed in Vietnam. He said that christianity is based on the belief that god does NOT interfere with worldy events. That being said, the whole idea of asking god for help in prayers is a hypocracy in itself.

Now this post isn't meant to attack anybody or anything. It's just my outlook on things.

[Soulpieced]

I was raised Methodist. I was confirmed but don't go to church anymore (and didn't like it at the time either). I don't know exactly how to classify myself. I don't really believe in a higher power at all, no omnipotent beings. But my main source of my beliefs is through science and the sheer magnitude of the universe. And I think it is crazy that people think one god created Earth when the universe is pretty much infinitely large. And to think that one "being" is responsible for things like dark matter and gamma ray bursts doesn't make much sense to me.

[Soulpieced]

It would be interesting if someone could find a link of many different theologies of the world. Technically I guess my beliefs are Atheistic, but I don't know if that's a proper classification.

[Izalude]

My belief is that organized religion was created to protect people and to keep the masses civil.

First off, the belief that if you were an overall good person, you would go to heaven, and have a wonderful afterlife. Or if you were a jerk, you'd go to hell...

Hmm... Let's see. I can be good for 40 years and have an eternity of paradise, or be a jerk and spend eternity in the bowels of Hell in anguish and torment? Yeah... enough said.

Other examples on protecting people are, the Jewish and Muslim ban on Pork, which happened Long ago... Many people were getting trichinosis after eating pork, so for a health reason, they added it to their religious doctrines to prevent people from getting sick.

[Hulkein]

I believe religious discussions should be barred from taking place online.

Edit- Not that any of you aren't smart enough to have a discussion or debate but too many morons who will just ruin the thread with cursing, insults etc.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Hulkein]

[Xcalibur]

I don't think that any God that exists would tell his belivers to blasphemes his name by killing for his name.

that being said, all known religions are hypocrite in my mind. I take what is good for mine and screw the rest, doing what I think is good and avoiding what is bad.

(Catolique)

[Avatar of Shadow]

Referring to the whole gamma rays, dark matter, etc thing...God is infinitely powerful. just because it can't be comprehended by us doesn't mean it can't happen.

As for picking what's good for you...who are we to decide what is sin and what isn't? We can't pick and choose what's right or wrong. If it was left to us to decide what sin is, couldn't we all just decide that sex, murder, etc, isn't a sin, and then none of us would ever go to hell?

Just somethin to think about...

[Soulpieced]

God creates gamma ray bursts which produce more energy in a few seconds than our sun will spit out over 10 billion years? Why waste all that energy making humans when we could be wiped out with one cosmological catastrophe as stupid as a 1 mile wide meteorite shard hitting our planet, which still means nothing in the grand scheme of the universe?

[Xcalibur]

Who am I to decide that raping someone is a sin? hmm, I am a male with some judgement. Even if it was ordering by my religion to rape people, i would not. That what I was talking about by saying removing the bad part.

I won't, for exemple, give a dime, nor I will attend boring speeches of someone that knows nothing of life, nor, et cetera

Because god (if there is one) is like a little kid with abunch of Lego toys.

[Soulpieced]

is like a little kid with abunch of Lego toys.

.

70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to be exact.

[Halfsilver]

What came before the beginning of our known universe Soulpieced?

I recently read an article about how scientists have just recently determined that our universe is finite. That it has boundries and is, in actuality, shaped like a soccer ball. What is on the outside of the boundries of our universe?

How can that be explained? What was before the big bang? What was that tiny, super compressed droplet of elemental hydrogen floating in? And where did it come from?

Science is great, but somethings...just can't be explained with science. Outside the laws of physics. The complexity of Life...the infintesimally small chance that life could actually exist...lightning striking a pool of organic goo at just the right temperature and just the right moment in time to imbue a spark of life into the goo that will eventually spring into what we know today?

Some higher power had to have some hand in that. Be it god, alien, collective conciousness.

edited to add links. Unfortunately, I can't find the one about the finite universe shaped like a soccer ball one.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/11/28/hydrogen.flakes/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/09/18/cosmic.crunch/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/04/13/big.bang.collision/index.html

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Halfsilver]

Who cares, we all find out when we die. Stop being so damn impatient.

[Soulpieced]

What came before the beginning of our known universe Soulpieced?

.

Interesting question. If I could answer it, I'd be a Nobel Prize winner, and not writing on a GemStone message board.

[Ilvane]

I believe in God. I don't go to any certain church though, since I got kicked out of the Catholic church for asking too many questions. I was about nine years old, and I was told that I had to go to the priest to do confession, and my mother had been teaching me bible verses, and I quoted one to the priest about not having to go through him to get forgiven. My mother was called to talk to the priest and all, and he told my mother that she was ruining my faith, and that we weren't bible scholars to interpret the bible..heh.

So my mom stopped taking me there, and I really haven't gone to a real church since, except for about a year at a non-denominational church that closed after a short time.

I don't think that an organized religion is necessary, as long as you pray and read the texts. The catholic church is very similar to the pagan(even though they don't like to hear that) and many of the traditions are just things that were meant to keep the populice in check..so it's hard to follow them knowing those kind of things.

I also dabbled in the Wiccan religion for a while, but it wasn't really for me, though I greatly respect it.

-A

[Xcalibur]

No. There must something/someone to create something/someone.

In physic, there is a saying that goes like "nothing is lost, nothing is created, all is transforming".

If you go from the start, a huge ball that exploded and become or universe, where the ball is from? God cannot created something like that out of nowhere.

So in the end, i think our universe is illogical as all things.

[Avatar of Shadow]

The speeches aren't by something that knows nothing of life, if you're referring to attending church. Priests speak through God, and there are Bible readings, therefore it comes from God.

To answer your question, Soulpieced, I don't think that God would allow His creation to be wiped out by a cosmological catastrophe.

[Ilvane]

I don't know which is harder to believe, that a big bang started everything or God created it. You have to make a leap of faith someplace.;)

I'd rather think there is a greater being out there, and that when we die we get to see the people we loved in life.

-A

[Xcalibur]

Yes they are, I don't see why someone that know nothing of marriage, of life with children and women would tell me what is best for them, for her, for us.

Priests know life by their books and the excuse of God doing this or that, don't question it.

I'd prefer go seeing an old wise grand-mother

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I don't know which is harder to believe, that a big bang started everything or God created it. You have to make a leap of faith someplace.;)

I'd rather think there is a greater being out there, and that when we die we get to see the people we loved in life.

-A

Who created God (greater being)? The egg or the chicken?

My mom is an ordained minister and did her divinity at one of the better schools in the nation. Shes never claimed to speak for god, and i doubt she ever will.

[Avatar of Shadow]

Just because priests don't get married or have children doesn't mean they know nothing of God, purely for the reason that they are inspired by God. The advice they give us is granted them by God.

Oh, and, about speaking for God...I never said they speak God's exact word...they're just inspired by Him.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Avatar of Shadow]

Shes also quick to point out the inconsistencies in the bible, and the purely political processes that created the bible such as the councoul of nicea.

[Ravenstorm]

I agree that where the Big Bang came from, what caused it, is a very important question.

However, if everything has to have a cause of some sort, then the same applies to some higher power. Where did He/She/It come from?

If a god can always have been then so can the universe. When I have proof one way or another, then I'll decide which to believe in. Until then, the ultimate origin of all things remains merely something interesting to argue about.

Raven

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
.

Oh, and, about speaking for God...I never said they speak God's exact word...they're just inspired by Him.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Avatar of Shadow]

Same difference. Pick your poison.

[Xcalibur]

By God? I remind you that if you were still doing what the bible saids, women would not be allowed to do a lot of things and we would still die at 30 years old by searching how to make a damn fire.

I exagerate, but the word of God, the bible was made by human's hand. Meaning, the word of God is the word of some humans, no?

For instance, did you know that constantine picked nicea as the location for his first councel simply because of its ties to cults of St micheal and the iconism that signified to the religious community?

[Avatar of Shadow]

Actually, no. The Bible was written by humans, but once more, these humans were inspired BY God. And Ravenstorm...the basis of faith is believing without physical evidence.

[Soulpieced]

To answer your question, Soulpieced, I don't think that God would allow His creation to be wiped out by a cosmological catastrophe.

.

Earth is going to cease to exist in a few billion years along with the human race. The sun in the progression of stars will become a red giant and basically engulf approximately half of our solar system. This is an invitability. So unless humans can find our way to travel outward of our solar system, the human race won't be around in a few billion years.

And another thing to think about is how can we expect to be the end of the evolutionary chain? Humans have only been evolving for a few thousand years. How can we possibly fathom that we are the most important things in the universe?

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
Actually, no. The Bible was written by humans, but once more, these humans were inspired BY God. And Ravenstorm...the basis of faith is believing without physical evidence.

You want to actually argue some of the points i brought up? do you know what the councel of Nicea was?

And if not how the fuck can you come here and tell me i'm missing something when you don't even know the basic history of the book and religion your speaking of.

The basis of faith might be believing without the presence of physical evidence, but it sure as hell doesn't mean belief despite the presence of physical evidence to the contrary.

[Xcalibur]

God according to the bible created humans? right?

If there was life on Mars, it isn't from God, right?

If some Klingons or some Chewies come and make peace with us, they aren't created by God, right?

[Avatar of Shadow]

That's a few billion years in the future, and no one can say what's going to happen between now and then.

And perhaps there just might be other living things in this universe, I'm not saying that humans are the most important thing. But it's not a solid topic, because we don't know, so how can we refer to it?

And if there IS other life, God created it, because He created everything.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Avatar of Shadow]

Semper Fidelis

.


I missed you were a marine. I'll bow out of this argument now, i don't wish to destroy my brain.

[Halfsilver]

http://wind.cc.whecn.edu/~marquard/astronomy/sunlike.htm


Our sun is middle-aged. In approximately 5 billion years, it will begin to expand untill it is 15-20 times the size it is now, and keep expanding, untill the outer portions of it become nothing more than inter-stellar dust. With the passing of the outer shell of the sun, our planet will be nothing more than a blackened rock. Maybe, it won't even exist at all.

:(

[Avatar of Shadow]

Actually, I'm not a marine, I'm in the army. I just use the latin phrase because it fits me well enough.

[Soulpieced]

The nearest star is approximately 24 trillion miles away. Travelling in a vessel going 1,000,000 miles per hour, it would take 24 million years to reach it. Start packing.

oy

[Avatar of Shadow]

Seems like we got a bit off-topic.

[Xcalibur]

Light speed travel = no

Intra-dimension travel = yes

Otherwise, we're stuck here forever

Avatar of Shadow

Who goes to Heaven and who cannot?

[Edited on 4-1-04 by Xcalibur]

[Halfsilver]

Closest star is something like 3.5 light years away. Relatively right around the corner. Unfortunately, Light travels pretty damned far in 3.5 years. heh.

But if you're christian, judgement day will come before then, right?

Personally, I believe that humans will have evolved into something unrecognizeable to us by then, or will have become extinct.

[Soulpieced]

I'm stating a point that it's a fact the human race will cease to exist, and the chances of us NOT becoming extinct are infinitesimal. So how is God protecting his precious humans now?

[Avatar of Shadow]

It's not my place to say who goes to Heaven and who doesn't. I don't decide that. And who knows when judgement day will be. It could be by then, maybe not. You never know.

And when judgement day DOES come, the human race will cease to exist.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Avatar of Shadow]

[Halfsilver]

The chances of our existance are infintesimal, as well. So who's to say we won't exist in 5 billion years?

[Soulpieced]

WHERE will we exist?

[Xcalibur]

I still think human race is the most arrogant creation of the universe. We created something called God to moralize ourself and we HUMANIZED it.

There is something/someone that is a greater power. But God as we're believing, no way. No God would allow a race to decimate an other in his name.

[Halfsilver]

In space? In a different dimension? As energy? As 'spirit'? who's to say?

4.5 billion years ago we existed as primordial sludge.

[Avatar of Shadow]

God doesn't control the universe, nor does He control us. When we were created, we were given free will, and so humans choose to war in the name of religion, whether it's right or not.

We have free will, but unless we exercise in the way he wants we get eternally tortured.

hahaha thats a good joke.

[Soulpieced]

Let me ask you this, do you believe God created the universe with the intent of humans being his ultimate creation?

[Avatar of Shadow]

We damn ourselves, and then the devil can torture us, not God.

[Avatar of Shadow]

Ultimate creation? In a way, yes. I know God loves us, but no one can say whether or not He has created other races elsewhere that we don't know about.

[Soulpieced]

So do animals go to heaven and hell? Carnivores kill other things to survive and ensure the survival of their species. Wouldn't that mean that all these animals go to hell?

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Soulpieced]

[Xcalibur]

Soupieced: that questioning is 100% sure to get yourself a: DO NO QUESTION GOD'S WILL" from any priests beside those that had a life before being one.

I knew one, he was alcoolic, had many affairs and become one. Funny thing is he never bored me with stuff from the bible, but did all his analogies with his life.

[Halfsilver]

Humans are animals. All life is life, no matter how you look at it.

We were graced with some intelligence....well most of us were, anyways, but that doesn't make us any BETTER than any other mammal. It does, however make us stronger. Strength, though doesn't amount to worth.

[Avatar of Shadow]

We have the ability to think, and tell the difference between right from wrong. That makes us different than animals.

[Halfsilver]

Who defines right and wrong?

[Soulpieced]

Heh, Government and the law. Which are inherintly human since they differ from place to place. And not in fact a concrete "thing".

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Soulpieced]

[Xcalibur]

We were animals before...

See? that's why I don't find any reconfort with any religions beside taking what I like from one. 1000 years ago, we burned people in the name of GOD because they were saying BLASPHEMES such as:

Earth is round

When it was proven the contrary, religion awaken and took it for his own, as ALL things that were proven wrong.

By agreeing with a relgion in particual, you are forfeiting all others (judaism, protestantism, musulmains, et cetera)

Pretty arrogant as a belief. So human

[Czeska]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
It would be interesting if someone could find a link of many different theologies of the world. Technically I guess my beliefs are Atheistic, but I don't know if that's a proper classification.


www.belief.net

[Avatar of Shadow]

The Bible says nothing of evolution. And the government and law can define what is right and wrong according to human society, but in the big picture, it's God, and nothing else.

See? that's why I don't find any reconfort with any religions beside taking what I like from one. 1000 years ago, we burned people in the name of GOD because they were saying BLASPHEMES such as:

Earth is round

We're human. We make mistakes.

[Scott]

I believe in God but I don't believe the bible word for word. The reason is because it was written by man, translated by man, etc.

Some things of coarse I believe in the bible. That doesn't mean I pick and choose, but basically I agree with the 10 commandments because I know in my heart that it is how I should live me life. Other things like "Homosexuality is an abomination before god" I don't believe in. I just feel that I know what is right and wrong.

I am a Methodist, and I really only go to church is on Easter and Christmas. To each his own though. You believe or you don't. If you don't, I don't think anyone should get in your face and say "you are going to hell." Or if you don't believe, you shouldn't tell people they are stupid for believing in something you don't.

EDITED: To make it easier on everyone's eyes.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Gemstone101]

[Xcalibur]

I agree that some part of the bible are good, as the 10 commandments (beside 1 or 2)

It's just common sense.

When the day will come that all humans will unite and will look at the same direction, I'll believe in God.

[Avatar of Shadow]

You can't really pick and choose when it comes to the Word of God.

Have you read the bible? Do you know anything of its creation? Just trying to establish a baseline of knowledge for this discussion.

[Xcalibur]

I do, as some people did in the 16th centuries.

And I don't have the pretention to say that Islamic people are wrong about their religion, about Judaism are wrong, about all others because MINE is the best.

[Avatar of Shadow]

I've read the Bible but have no extensively researched its creation, no, and I have not said any religion is wrong here.

You've read the bible from cover to cover? How then do you justify the many inconsistencies and conflictions?

[Scott]

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
You can't really pick and choose when it comes to the Word of God.

The bible isn't the word of god. MAN wrote it, MAN translated it, and MAN passed it down generation to generation.

[Avatar of Shadow]

the MEN that wrote the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. and please point out some conflicts and inconsistancies?

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
the MEN that wrote the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. and please point out some conflicts and inconsistancies?

Uh..In that case would you care to respond to my previous points abou tthe councel of Nicea?

Conflicts? How about the vengeful and hateful god in the old testament in contrast to the benevolent and understanding one in the new? Is that good enough?

Or how about the way that the Xtian imperialists such as constantine Used pagan religious sects, icons and stories and made strinkingly similar christian, sects, icons, and stories to win over the people.

How exactly can they be inspired by god when the same stories existed in previous religions.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by RangerD1]

[Scott]

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
the MEN that wrote the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. and please point out some conflicts and inconsistancies?

Oh, so it's the word of god? Not quite. The bible has been translated and altered so many times it's probably nothing like the original. Kind of like the English horn. The inventor was French, hated the English, however the translation to English turned it into the English Horn....

[Avatar of Shadow]

PROBABLY nothing like the original? Well, do you actually think that God would let His work become corrupted/changed?

I know for afact its not the same as it was before. You however, do not. As evidenced by your complete ignorance on the history of the bible and your continued passing over of points when i make them.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
PROBABLY nothing like the original? Well, do you actually think that God would let His work become corrupted/changed?

Free will. God doesn't want murder, but he allows it to happen. We have free will, he doesn't control everything we do because if he did, EVERY single person would believe in him, only him, and the world would be perfect.

EDIT: Actually you are right, it's PROBABLY not nothing like the original. It IS NOT like the original.

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Gemstone101]

[Avatar of Shadow]

I'm sorry if I don't spend hours of my time researching the history of the Bible so that I can't quote it word for word. Word for word, the Bible doesn't matter. In it's entirety, however...

As for it being different, yes, of course it won't be word for word. Look at all the different versions in existence. However, the message that the Bible communicates remains the same.

I apologize, I'm not trying to pass over points, only file them away so I can look them up later.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
PROBABLY nothing like the original? Well, do you actually think that God would let His work become corrupted/changed?

If he never interferes, then yes.

As an example of just how the translations get mangled from the original meaning, here's a rather good page:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibi.htm

It's an essay on what the Bible really says about homosexuality. At least what it says before it was rewritten into a new language and influenced by the prejudices of the new authors. The site also cites various examples of the same exact passage from different versions of the Bible. The meaning of them is not always the same.

It really makes you wonder what the message /really/ was instead of what it has become.

Raven

[quote]Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
I'm sorry if I don't spend hours of my time researching the history of the Bible so that I can't quote it word for word. Word for word, the Bible doesn't matter. In it's entirety, however.../[quote]

WTF, you could have saved us both alot of them then and said i really don't know what i'm talking about. You'd think if you actually believed 50% of the crap you spout you'd take the time to learn it in its entirety. I mean its only your eternal salvation we're talking about here.

[Ravenstorm]

Let's not get abusive here. The chance of changing someone's opinion, or educating to a specific point, is zero if they get chased away by derision.

Raven

I have no desire to change anyones opinion. Its obviously i can present a number of facts but he won't even bother to consider them because it does not fit into his religious schema.

[Avatar of Shadow]

I AM taking the time to learn it in its entirety, but it doesn't happen overnight, and I'm a busy man. I don't see the need for you to get rude when you think you've won an argument, however. Besides...in somethin like this, there really isn't ever a winner.

[Valthissa]

Help me out here. Aren't there many questions within this thread?

1) Does God Exist?

2) Is the Bible the word of God?

3)Does modern religion provide any help in our understanding of God?

4) Doesn't Science trump religion/faith anyway?

5) Do humans have free will?

There are many other questions and issues within this thread as well.

my answers:

Yes
No
hardly any
You've got to be kidding me. No
free choice, yes - I don't know what free will is

C/Valth

[Avatar of Shadow]

yes.
yes, but not word for word.
God isn't meant to be understood by us in a human capacity.
no.
and yeah, free choice is kinda a better way of putting it.

[Izalude]

Contradictions in the bible:

God is a man of war or peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Ascending to heaven.
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)

Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

More can be found here
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

[Ooga Chaka]

[quote]Originally posted by Halfsilver
What came before the beginning of our known universe Soulpieced?

[Edited because the quote ends here...not sure how to end a quote.]

I've only read through the first page so far, so i'm responding to what i read there first, before i forget :P. As to the question, i think i have a tendency to think in strange ways personally...If our universe is indeed shaped like a soccer ball, that makes it spherical, in the same fashion as our planet, the sun...even atoms. I remember learing in science class in 9th grade that a "happy" atom has 8 protons and neutrons surrounding it, but can have more or less. The center of an atom is a source of energy, the nucleus. It seems to me that on a larger scale...our sun much resembles an atom, and we have 9 planets circling, which is 1 more than a Happy atom. Outside our solar system...there are other solar systems. So my question is, what if we were able to leave our soccer ball shaped universe, do you not think we'd find seperate universes floating out in the vaccuum, as planets and suns float seperately within our universe? Obviously they would be WELL out of sight, as our current technology can only see as far as whats inside OUR universe. But i think there are more outside of ours, and my guess is, they all comprise a spherical shape as well...and outside of that...and outside of that...

Oh well, if your still with me thanks for reading through my insanity. hehe

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Ooga Chaka]

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Ooga Chaka]

[Ooga Chaka]

As to subject of organized religion. C'mon...organized religion is a sham. I don't care which religion it is. If it's organized and you follow it's teachings in any way other than to better yourself as a person, and to become more aware of the world around you, and what it REALLY is, opposed to what you have been taught that it is, and what you had always assumed it was. In my opinion, being aware of this place we have been given to rest our souls a while is the highest tribute you can pay to GOD (and i don't mean the christian god, or your god, or my god, or his or her god) To live your life in appreciation of just what it is to have what we have...whatever it is. In my opinion, I am God, typing on God, so that God can read it on his Godputer, and form his/her Godpinions, and post back to God so God can read it on his God. You ask who is God, where is he? Why doesn't he take part in our lives and show himself? That's insane...Everything that exists is God! My idea of religion? Slow down, you have to ease your mind off the mess you may or may not realize your mind is stuck in and take time to realize whats going on for yourself. No organized group of people can point you to God, you gotta find that shit within yourself, and when you do, you'll know it though and through. Though you might forget from time to time :saint: We are after all, only human.

Whoever it was that said something about "who are we to decide what is sin and what isn't, we can't just decide that rape or murder isn't a sin and then it's okay" Or something along those lines. Come ON! Every living being in existance knows right from wrong, i don't care who says they don't know. They do. How they respond to the fact that it's right or wrong is the only thing in question. Well, i'm gonna read some more and post my thoughts...i like this thread.

[Edted to change forg to forget]

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Ooga Chaka]

[Drew2]

I believe some things we're just not meant to know. And really, I don't care. I'm grateful for what life I have no matter how I got it, and I'm not going to worry over where it all started. I don't need a God or a scientific answer.

I'll just deal with what's dealt, worry about the rest when I'm dead.

[Czeska]

I'm not going to read through all of the thread, mostly cause I feel icky today. But I'll say that most religions have a "golden rule" and if you live by that, you should be ok regardless of what you feel comes after death.

So, an' it harm none, do what ye will.

[Meos]

Heretics! BURN AT THE STAKE!

[Ooga Chaka]

LOL, you're all gonna get tired of my posts before i'm through i'm sure of it. :saint: Gotta get caught up ya know?

I agree with whoever said that they like to take the "good" parts from other religions and form his own opinion. Ya know, Jesus Christ was a great man, and he had a great relationship with the spirit, so did Buddha. They were both great men, as were the founders of all (well, almost all) religions. Does that make them special? Yes! Does that mean that we need to try to follow everything they said to a "T"? YES! But only if that's exactly what works for YOU. I said it before, you have to find spirituality within yourself, or it don't mean shit! What do you think would happen if someone came forward saying some of the ings that Buddha and Jesus said today, in modern America. They just might be heard...but more likely, they'd be put in a looney bin before anyone really heard what they had to say. I am firm in my belief that a great many prophets are alive right now, who could if they were given the chance go along way towards bringing our society together as a whole. But they're just craaazy. :roll:

The bible? That's one way. the Buddhist path to enlightenment? That's another way. Quiet reflection? Ya, that's a way too. There's lots of ways...as many as there are grains of sand really...Christianity, Catholisism, Buddism, Hinduism, Muslim...these are all just different ways that have worked for people in the past, if they help you reach a higher state of conscience, great! You found the way. All you can do is hope more people do too...and soon.

[Edited to add]

P.S. Please read and reply to my posts, this is the first thread i've ever really gotten into at all, and i'd like to see a response or two.:bounce:

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Ooga Chaka]

Originally posted by Avatar of Shadow
I AM taking the time to learn it in its entirety, but it doesn't happen overnight, and I'm a busy man. I don't see the need for you to get rude when you think you've won an argument, however. Besides...in somethin like this, there really isn't ever a winner.

I didn't think i've won this argument because like i said its impossible to sway a person like you. However, if having confidence in your beliefs is rude, then i guess me and you are both guilty

[Jenisi]

when I die.. I'll be at peace :)

[Silversi]

ohh like Czeska, I'm not gonna read everything here, actually hadn't noticed this thread before today.

Commenting on "organized religions".. even though I myself dont follow the path of any organized religion, I do still see a purpose for them. Fellowship for one, people of like mind getting together to discuss their beliefs, it's how ya learn, practice, understand.

Also.. some people in this life just need or want to be lead rather than figure out everything on thier own, and that's ok too. If you find something you can believe in.. truely believe in with all your soul, then that's where you should be at.

The saddest thing in this world is to have nothing to believe in at all.

[Avatar of Shadow]

contradictions in the Bible... here ya go.

God is a man of war or peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

God grants peace to those who accept it, but those who choose to turn from Him will face the consequences of their actions.

Ascending to heaven.
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)

Jesus CAME from heaven and went back on His own accord. Elijah was only on earth, never in heaven, and TAKEN to heaven. Not a contradictions, just a difference.


Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

Judas fell from the tree he hanged himself from and burst open.

God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

God can only give His blessings to the people that love and accept Him. The verse from JER 13:14 is a warning about what will happen to those that don't repent. God is our Father, and when childen misbehave, they are punished.

As for the last one...perhaps that's something that was changed in translations, but I will continue researching and get back to you all. Hope I cleared some things up!