Ten Commandments in the Courthouse?

[SpunGirl]

"10-Commandments Judge Gone
Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was removed from office for refusing to move his Ten Commandments monument from inside the state courthouse."

This was from an AOL news bit. I've been loosely following this. I don't really think it's right to have the Ten Commandments up in any government building, but there are a lot of people who advocate it strongly, along with prayer in schools and that whole mess of crap.

Having no faith whatsoever myself I find it hard to see the reason. What do you guys think?

-K

[Vestarr]

I has little faith myself ...the whole government separate from religion thing doesn't seem to work. When i was in school they made us pray ..a public school .i refused and would get detention and stuff its just not right ...What if i was ..umm say ...Buhdist or somethin an i went to the court and saw that ..how could you feel they value yer opinion if they put up something of a catholic religion and none others .Does that mean other religions are wrong ?

[Moist Happenings]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands. One nation, under scrutiny, with glasnost and peristroika for none.

[Tendarian]

I dont see it as that big of a deal. So one court house has the ten commandents set up? So What? How is that more offensive than "In God We Trust" on all our money? If the money one offends anyone here ill gladly accept donations paypal style,give me a IM if you need the email address.

However him refusing to abide by a decision that was handed to him while being a judge himself seems idiotic to me as well. He probably should have been removed and i wont cry for him either.

Because "god" can be a relative term. The 10 commandments can't.

[Vesi]

It didn't belong there. He refused to remove it so he was removed. They made the right decision.

Vesi

[Tendarian]

Hrmmm yes but what about athiests? If everyone is afraid of offending people with christmas trees and all that,i dont see how they can afford to offend the athiests.

[Moist Happenings]

Well if we're going to all be little bitches about it then I am now offended that schools now get off for Yom Kippur.

[Hulkein]

They should've kept them there.

[Tendarian]

Whats Yom Kippur? And when does it happen?

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Vestarr
I has little faith myself ...the whole government separate from religion thing doesn't seem to work. When i was in school they made us pray ..a public school .i refused and would get detention and stuff its just not right ...What if i was ..umm say ...Buhdist or somethin an i went to the court and saw that ..how could you feel they value yer opinion if they put up something of a catholic religion and none others .Does that mean other religions are wrong ?

Public school or private school? Unless you went to school years ago, prayer in public school is not allowed. If it was a private school, then I suppose you could get detention.

Vesi

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Tendarian
Whats Yom Kippur? And when does it happen?

It's a jewish holiday. It happens in September.

Some people bitched that Christmas was a holiday that schools got off for and Yom Kippur wasn't, so they took away Columbus day and gave them Yom Kippur.

I really think that there needs to be some other system of days off in schools and government. Because there's no way you're going to please EVERYBODY because everyone is so goddamned touchy these days.

I'm a firm believer that there are a lot of freedoms that idiots shouldn't have. Like Speech...and life.

[Askip]

The judge is after bigger fish than just the 10c display, he wants to run for office, probably governor. There is enough religious-right in Bama to be a target audience and he played up to them. He even took the trouble to mention that during his hearing he "was asked three times to deny" - a phrase all the belters can recognize.

This nation (like most) is not ready to enter the 21st century regarding religion.

[Parkbandit]

Do you really think that he gives 2 shits about the 10 commandment monument?

He knew he would gain popular support in the Christian belt of Alabama if he were opposed to it's removal. He was ordered to have it removed and he decided that he needed the publicity so he refused. All the old Christian people now think he's the best thing since the Resurection... when he really only did that to gain a political foothold.

Mark my words.. he will run for some state political job very soon. My bet is on Governor.

[Parkbandit]

Damn you Askip! Delete your post or people will think I was copying you!!

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Askip
The judge is after bigger fish than just the 10c display, he wants to run for office, probably governor. There is enough religious-right in Bama to be a target audience and he played up to them. He even took the trouble to mention that during his hearing he "was asked three times to deny" - a phrase all the belters can recognize.

This nation (like most) is not ready to enter the 21st century regarding religion.

Yeah... I saw what he did as more of a political move than a religious one. Living in the Babble Belt, I can certainly see what he is doing. He'll run for office... as has been stated. I'd bet money on it.

Vesi

[Hulkein]

I agree Daina.

I also believe that he does firmly believe that the Commandmants should stay, and that the positive is that it will gain him public support.

[Askip]

Hehe. :D

I normally do not enter discussions that have religion in the topic, but this one is right next door (I'm in Hotlanta).

If the USA truly had a separation of church and state, "in god we trust" and "one nation under god" would not be part of our system. However, christianity plays too big a part in many folks lives for polititions to ignore it.

Would you give money to Tammy Faye? Thousands did. :D

[sevas]

Im not sure how many of you heard of it but there was the same debate in West Chester, PA. The major difference was that the commandments were on a plaque on the outside of the courthouse. After long debate(which im sure isnt over yet) the commandments are still standing.

The country was founded on freedom of religion among many things, i dont see how they can tell someone to stop practicing their religion just because they are in a government building. By telling them to take down the commandments they are only promoting atheism. Atheism is a religion in itself, they are a group of people with the same beliefs, or lack thereof. So by taking them down you are telling atheists that they are 'correct'.

Just my 2 cents.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Lady Daina
I frankly don't understand what is so offensive about the 10 commandments in and of themselves. What if he re-worded them and re-named them '10 really good ideas', would they still be offensive? I personally think too many people are too damned touchy and should stop going around looking for things to bitch and moan about. It's really tiring.

Thing is... where do you draw the line? I think the commandments are good ideas... but they have religious significance and thus do not belong in a state office building. "Separation of Church and State" is one of the founding principles of this nation and should be upheld.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Neff

Originally posted by Tendarian
Whats Yom Kippur? And when does it happen?

It's a jewish holiday. It happens in September.

Some people bitched that Christmas was a holiday that schools got off for and Yom Kippur wasn't, so they took away Columbus day and gave them Yom Kippur.

I really think that there needs to be some other system of days off in schools and government. Because there's no way you're going to please EVERYBODY because everyone is so goddamned touchy these days.

I'm a firm believer that there are a lot of freedoms that idiots shouldn't have. Like Speech...and life.

My history teacher told us the only reason schools got Yom Kippur off was because of Jewish teachers, which is why we (at a Jesuit school) never got it. I'm thinking about changing my sigquote to "everyone is so goddamn touchy these days". Neff is money for quotes.

The problem with trying to take religion out of public office/life is that you can't, because everyone has a view on religion that is very difficult to separate from everyday decisions. I better have spelled separate right, I HATE it when I misspell it. As a Christian, I don't care what someone does with a monument of the 10 Commandments. So long as they don't bench press it, because that thing was frikkin huge. I'd be scared of that guy.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Neff

Originally posted by Tendarian
Whats Yom Kippur? And when does it happen?

It's a jewish holiday. It happens in September.

Some people bitched that Christmas was a holiday that schools got off for and Yom Kippur wasn't, so they took away Columbus day and gave them Yom Kippur.

I really think that there needs to be some other system of days off in schools and government. Because there's no way you're going to please EVERYBODY because everyone is so goddamned touchy these days.

I'm a firm believer that there are a lot of freedoms that idiots shouldn't have. Like Speech...and life.

My history teacher told us the only reason schools got Yom Kippur off was because of Jewish teachers, which is why we (at a Jesuit school) never got it. I'm thinking about changing my sigquote to "everyone is so goddamn touchy these days". Neff is money for quotes.

The problem with trying to take religion out of public office/life is that you can't, because everyone has a view on religion that is very difficult to separate from everyday decisions. I better have spelled separate right, I HATE it when I misspell it. As a Christian, I don't care what someone does with a monument of the 10 Commandments. So long as they don't bench press it, because that thing was frikkin huge. I'd be scared of that guy.

Well, for another example..I work at a law firm(so I can't mention names or I get fired. heh), and we work for schools. Some student(who I happen to know personally) complained that the spring chorus concert was "too christian" and threatened to sue if they didn't put jewish songs in as well. She got her way, but what would happen if one person from EVERY religion came and bitched that same day? You'd have a freakin' 8 hour long concert, would you not? I mean come on people( not you people, people in general), use some common sense. If you find it offensive that your ears have to listen to a song about a religion that isn't your own, or your eyes have to look at something that doesn't have to do with your religion, then I think you not only have problems, but are also in for a big disappointment because religion is everywhere, no matter where you go.

If I am offended by birds are we all going to go out with guns? Don't you think the green party would be a little pissed?

So if I am offended by the ten commandments, we're going to take them out of every public place?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by sevas
Im not sure how many of you heard of it but there was the same debate in West Chester, PA. The major difference was that the commandments were on a plaque on the outside of the courthouse. After long debate(which im sure isnt over yet) the commandments are still standing.

The country was founded on freedom of religion among many things, i dont see how they can tell someone to stop practicing their religion just because they are in a government building. By telling them to take down the commandments they are only promoting atheism. Atheism is a religion in itself, they are a group of people with the same beliefs, or lack thereof. So by taking them down you are telling atheists that they are 'correct'.

Just my 2 cents.

If you have monuments for one religion.. why not every religion? Where is the Buddah statue? How about Allah?

Why is it ok for Christian religion symbols to be displayed and not any other ones?

No one is asking that you stop practicing your religion... all I am asking for is that you don't shove it in my face when I am going to a state building my taxes helped pay for.

[Edited on 11-14-2003 by Parkbandit]

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by sevas
Im not sure how many of you heard of it but there was the same debate in West Chester, PA. The major difference was that the commandments were on a plaque on the outside of the courthouse. After long debate(which im sure isnt over yet) the commandments are still standing.

The country was founded on freedom of religion among many things, i dont see how they can tell someone to stop practicing their religion just because they are in a government building. By telling them to take down the commandments they are only promoting atheism. Atheism is a religion in itself, they are a group of people with the same beliefs, or lack thereof. So by taking them down you are telling atheists that they are 'correct'.

Just my 2 cents.

If you have monuments for one religion.. why not every religion? Where is the Buddah statue? How about Allah?

Why is it ok for Christian religion symbols to be displayed and not any other ones?

No one is asking that you stop practicing your religion... all I am asking for is that you don't shove it in my face when I am going to a state building my taxes helped pay for.

[Edited on 11-14-2003 by Parkbandit]

Falgrin, there isn't anything saying that a statue of Buddha can't be erected in a public place. in FACT, if there were, and somebody bitched about it, I can almost guarrantee you the argument "well there are symbols of christianity everywhere" would come up, and the statue would stay there.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Neff
Some student(who I happen to know personally) complained that the spring chorus concert was "too christian" and threatened to sue if they didn't put jewish songs in as well. She got her way, but what would happen if one person from EVERY religion came and bitched that same day?

Funny you should mention that; in my middle school we had 0 Christian songs. We had several Jewish songs. Then we had those nice non-affiliated songs like Jingle Bell Rock and some other Wintry nonsense. As a musician? I didn't care, I still had good parts. It's just music. Music doesn't say anything. People say things (or read into things).


Originally posted by Neff
If I am offended by birds are we all going to go out with guns?

That's what my uncle did. If you ever go to upstate new york and don't see any birds, you know who to blame. New Zealand.

[sevas]

Its really a no win situation. If they take down current symbols then they are infringing on the freedom of religion. If they allow more symbols then they are breaking the seperation of church and state. The problem is that the judge who is debating the case is free to interperet the constitution as they would like. This causes mixed results within the judicial system. As long as they can't agree with one another then no progress will be made to resolve the whole issue.

[Moist Happenings]

I say screw the separation of church and state. Just don't force anything on anyone. Okay yeah, you were FORCED to pledge the allegiance under god. That was wrong. Change it.

Are you FORCED to read the ten commandments and take them to heart simply because they're there? No. Just like you're not forced to convert to Buddhism if you see a big statue of Buddha. I don't see the problem with it.

For those of you that find symbols of other religions offensive, hear me out. If you don't see the ten commandments, that doesn't mean they don't exist. If you don't hear the word "god" that doesn't mean people don't pray to him/her/it/them.

So there are really two courses of action we can take, since there obviously isn't any simple solution to this problem as it stands now.

A) We can get rid of all religious symbols everywhere public. Religion will be confined to your homes and your churches.

B) We can all grow up a little bit, allow whatever religious symbol wherever, realize that it isn't being FORCED on us to do anything, or read it or look at it or whatever, and move along.

And yes, I have a solution for the people who are still offended by religion at this point.

You can all stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALA" to your childish, ignorant heart's content.

[Vesi]

Originally posted by sevas
Im not sure how many of you heard of it but there was the same debate in West Chester, PA. The major difference was that the commandments were on a plaque on the outside of the courthouse. After long debate(which im sure isnt over yet) the commandments are still standing.

The country was founded on freedom of religion among many things, i dont see how they can tell someone to stop practicing their religion just because they are in a government building. By telling them to take down the commandments they are only promoting atheism. Atheism is a religion in itself, they are a group of people with the same beliefs, or lack thereof. So by taking them down you are telling atheists that they are 'correct'.

Just my 2 cents.

Seperation of church and state is a major part of guaranteeing freedom of religion. It is essential that it stays that way to protect 'everyone's right' to believe as they wish.

Also, atheism is not a religion. This decision wasn't based on what 'atheists' think. It was based on the law. A judge should be the last person not to uphold a judicial ruling. Thus, the reason he was suspended.


Do I think the Ten Commandments are a good set of rules? Yes. Do I think they should be displayed in a state judicial building? Nope.

Vesi

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Neff
And yes, I have a solution for the people who are still offended by religion at this point.

You can all stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALA" to your childish, ignorant heart's content.

Well, that's mature.

I'm not 'offended' by religious symbols. There are places for them but I think a building that represents 'all of the people' should not have a five thousand pound religious monument staring you in the face.

He was asked if it would be all right if it were a symbol of the Koran. He answered no. His reason? He said because this country is founded on a God... not Allah.

I wouldn't want this man as my judge.

Vesi

Edited to fix a spelling error.

[Edited on 11-14-2003 by Vesi]

[Edited on 11-14-2003 by Vesi]

[Moist Happenings]

I never said that particular man was right. I'm talking about in general.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Neff
Falgrin, there isn't anything saying that a statue of Buddha can't be erected in a public place. in FACT, if there were, and somebody bitched about it, I can almost guarrantee you the argument "well there are symbols of christianity everywhere" would come up, and the statue would stay there.

So every State office building needs to add a wing JUST for every type of religious monument? Come on now...

And what about my freedom of not having you religious people putting up your monuments in every State building I happen to go to? What about my rights?

Keep your beliefs and monuments where they belong... in your house of worship or in your own home.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Neff
I never said that particular man was right. I'm talking about in general.

Sure you did. I'll prove it.


Originally posted by Neff
that particular man was right.


I forget the rest of the sentence, but I think that's the jist of it :D

America is the land of lawsuits. That's New England's greatest contribution to America. Farmers didn't have anything better to do over the winter, so they sued each other for piddly little things. Over 200 years it has become an art form. Not a very pretty or artistic one, but irregardless: The facts are these.

1) That judge guy is dumb.
2) The freedom of religion was a reaction against the fact that the King of England was the English Pope.
3) The beauty of the American Constitution is that it can be changed without bloody rebellion.

Therefore, there should be an amendment that allows us to hit that guy with stuff. That is all.

[JustMe]

Some people just need to bitch to make themself happy, the 10 Commandments gave them a reason.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Neff
And yes, I have a solution for the people who are still offended by religion at this point.

You can all stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALA" to your childish, ignorant heart's content.

Funny... we have a different opinion on what is ignorant and what is not. Because one doesn't need to believe in the God Almighty does not make him ignorant. In fact, I would say just the opposite.

[sevas]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

2) The freedom of religion was a reaction against the fact that the King of England was the English Pope.

combine that with france, spain, germany and all other cultures that came over. The roman catholics, christians, jewish, it doesnt matter, they all came over for their freedom. Majority of these symbols have been around their respective locations for well over 100 years, why was this not an issue before? some people today just want money and fame, so they bring up religious arguments and lawsuits.

Again until the government takes a unified stance on the subject there will be no progress made.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Neff
And yes, I have a solution for the people who are still offended by religion at this point.

You can all stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALA" to your childish, ignorant heart's content.

Funny... we have a different opinion on what is ignorant and what is not. Because one doesn't need to believe in the God Almighty does not make him ignorant. In fact, I would say just the opposite.

Don't you make me prove God's existence. Don't! You! Do it!..... etc.

And I don't think the issue is whether or not believing in God makes you ignorant, but that people who are offended by someone else's religion to the point they can't stand to even see artifacts regarding that religion are ignorant. I'll be the first to admit, atheism offends me. Does that mean if I see the universal atheist symbol (you know what it is) that I will be offended? No. Would I demand it be removed from a courtroom? No. If you were tell me to take my cross off, however, I would be offended and violently sour.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Neff
And yes, I have a solution for the people who are still offended by religion at this point.

You can all stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALALA" to your childish, ignorant heart's content.

Funny... we have a different opinion on what is ignorant and what is not. Because one doesn't need to believe in the God Almighty does not make him ignorant. In fact, I would say just the opposite.


In what part of "If you are still offended by religious monuments even though you aren't FORCED to read or follow them, then you can stick your fingers in your ears", did I say that everyone had to follow "God Almighty"? I am Agnostic myself. I was simply saying that you shouldn't be offended by religion simply because it exists. It's always going to exist whether you see it or not. So what's the point in crying when you see it?

[Moist Happenings]

Also, Latrinsorm just made the point I was trying to convey. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

[sevas]

Many years ago the government used to allow churces to not pay taxes, that has changed. Too many people complained that it showed a connection to state and church. Even with this change there are still symbols of religion and quotes all over the United States, ie money, pledge...

The day when all is removed is the day when all argument will stop. Until then there will always be someone who is unhappy.

[Edaarin]

That's an awful correlation. A Buddhist statue doesn't force people to convert? If I was in a court room with a giant monument of the 10 Commandments, I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable either. Then again if I lived in Alabama I'd probably shoot myself.

[SpunGirl]

Being nonreligious myself, I don't have a problem with any religion. No, really, I like them all just fine.

It's just certain people OF certain religions that I find distasteful. For instance, Pat Robertson of the Christian Coalition. Not really a nice guy. Not really a good Christian attitude.

I wonder what the good Christian folks in the Bible Belt would do if someone, HarmNone for example, went and put up a bunch of Pagan writings on the wall next to the Ten Commandments. I think all hell would break loose.

No, you can't please everyone, but I think you can have municipal buldings (such as courthousese and police stations, which excludes lots of areas accessible to the public) that are totally devoid of religious decoration.

I'm definitely not bitching, was just curious to see what people thought.

-K

[Latrinsorm]

If they were good Christians they would give Harmnone some Gospel teaching. They'd (try to) convince her to take them down. If they were good Christians.

[DarknessWithin]

This is actually kinda ironic seeing as how I just covered this in my Sociology class yesterday. Seperation of Church & State is something that will never change. If you take the time to look at history, Our country was based on the fact that people wanted to get away from the strictness of the ruling religion & king.

IMO, Church & State don't belong together. That doesn't mean I'm not a religious person whatsoever. We had to come from somewhere didn't we? Thing is, you cannot exclude people when it comes to government doings. Everyone is equal. I can bet anyone here that you will not be seeing religion back in public schools anytime soon. In order to be equal to everyone you would need to honor EVERY religion. Do you have any idea how long that would take?? Not to mention cost.

As for holidays, in the L.A. area public schools dont get Yom Kipur (sp?) or any other days off. They do get Columbus Day off though. The Idea of Christmas Break is gone and now called Winter Break as to not offened anyone. Heck, I remember when I was in High School, at the winter dances, we werent even allowed to decorate the gym with a Santa, Tree, or Minora (sp?) Us students didnt see it as disrespectful or anything, it was the addministration who said "oh we can't have that...someone could get offended!" People need to learn how to not be offended by a candle, tree, and a fat man. ;)

All in all, religion is a personal thing...it shouldn't be where it's put in people's faces.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DarknessWithin
Thing is, you cannot exclude people when it comes to government doings. Everyone is equal.

But is equality fair/just?

[DarknessWithin]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by DarknessWithin
Thing is, you cannot exclude people when it comes to government doings. Everyone is equal.

But is equality fair/just?

When it comes to religion? Maybe. Our politics are screwed up enough as is...imagine putting a die hard right-wing religious person in charge of our country. Think anyone would be pissed about what he would do? I do. It might be getting religion out of view but it takes away one more thing that some might believe to put others above them. Although I have the terminator as Governor so I probably can't speak for many :lol:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Edaarin
That's an awful correlation. A Buddhist statue doesn't force people to convert? If I was in a court room with a giant monument of the 10 Commandments, I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable either. Then again if I lived in Alabama I'd probably shoot myself.

Exactly. I spent 2 weeks in Birmingham for work and thought I would have to take a gun to my head to make the pain go away.

[Tendarian]

Heck, I remember when I was in High School, at the winter dances, we werent even allowed to decorate the gym with a Santa, Tree, or Minora (sp?) Us students didnt see it as disrespectful or anything, it was the addministration who said "oh we can't have that...someone could get offended!" People need to learn how to not be offended by a candle, tree, and a fat man.

I can see the arguments against religious things,but what possible arguments can be made against christmas? Its not a christian thing anymore,its about getting and giving gifts. I somehow doubt Jesus is behind the Santa outfit or the lit up christmas tree. Dont celebrate christmas? So what? I dont celebrate all holidays either but i dont go stopping those that do. I dont send valentine cards out out valentines day but i also dont demand others do as i do.

Here are some things you all seem to look past…
1) Judge More was not fighting his right to put the monument there.. He was fighting the constitutionality of the Federal Court overstepping its power and ordering a State Court The Chief Justice of a State court to do something.
2) The United States code of law is based on Judeo-Christian beliefs… The Ten Commandments
3) The founding fathers wished a separation of Church and state, As in The church will not govern the laws and bureaucracy of the state, as it was in europe with Catholicism and later Protestantism.
4) The founding fathers being religious of a protestant, catholic or deist faith all believed in god.
It is the duty of mankind on all suitable occasions to acknowledge their dependence on the Divine Being...[that] Almighty God would mercifully interpose and still the rage of war among the nations...[and that] He would take this province under His protection, confound the designs and defeat the attempts of its enemies, and unite our hearts and strengthen our hands in every undertaking that may be for the public good, and for our defense and security in this time of danger. Benjamin Franklinn.
5) If anyone has been to Washington DC and has been privileged enough to walk through the main chamber if the Supreme Court You would see a backdrop of a religious theme which has the Ten Commandments etched into it.
6) Just as it is wrong for ME to force my beliefs upon you… It is also wrong for you to force your Non-belief in a higher being upon me. And saying that because YOU do not believe in a god that I cannot In a Public building See the words of god or the name GOD is doing just that.
7) Back to the subject… and the first point. This issue although religious zealots chose to make it so… It is not a debate of religion but that of the constitution.

Ill continue when I have more time

[Edited on 11-15-2003 by The Edine]

[Edited on 11-15-2003 by The Edine]

[Ilvane]

Ok, here is what I think. Had Judge Moore taken the 10 commandments into his office, that wouldn't have bothered me. He put it in the center of the courthouse, where it could be seen by everyone.

It's no so much that he put the ten commandments there, he lost his job because the court ruled it should be taken away, and he refused to obey a *Court* order. (What the law said, how ever you want to put it) As a judge he is supposed to uphold the laws, and he refused to do that. How could be considered a judge after that?

I believe in God, and I have no problem with him putting a small plaque of the 10 Commandments up in his office, if he believes in God, but the court should be the court, and the church the church.

There is a seperation of church and state. Our country allows freedom of religion, which includes Islam, Jewish, Wiccan, Athiest, Buhhdism, Scientology, etc..

This is the main reason why that 10 commandment statue should not have been in the center of the courthouse.;)

-A

It is the states right to put what they deem needed it is not the federal courts right to order the judge to remove it...

The supreme court refused to hear the case because its ruleling would have had to be unpopular because it was a unconstituional act to order the it to be removed

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by The Edine
It is the states right to put what they deem needed it is not the federal courts right to order the judge to remove it...

The supreme court refused to hear the case because its ruleling would have had to be unpopular because it was a unconstituional act to order the it to be removed

You are saying that the Monument of the 10 Commandments was "needed" in the State Office?

When the State has done something that is unconstitutional, it is the Federal Government's responsiblility and duty to make sure that the Federal Law is upheld.

Like I said.. keep your religious monuments in your house of worship.. they certainly do not belong in and State Office building.

[Bestatte]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Like I said.. keep your religious monuments in your house of worship.. they certainly do not belong in and State Office building.

Though, to play devil's advocate, does your opinion also extend to Christmas day off, paid for by the taxpayers?

Or what about mandatory overtime for people who work for the government on Sundays (such as snow plow operators, police officers, and emergency maintenence workers)?

These days off exist because this country was founded by Christians, though the constitution supposedly protects the right of people belonging to all religious groups. So if I want to work on Christmas, and I'm employed by the government, do they have the right to tell me I'm not allowed to come in? Do they have the right to lock the doors on that day? Is that a violation of my constitutional right? And as a taxpayer, is it within my constitutional right to refuse to pay taxes that pay extra for people to work overtime on the Christian sabbath?

Not needed no... Though popular concensus in the state was to have it there.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Bestatte

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Like I said.. keep your religious monuments in your house of worship.. they certainly do not belong in and State Office building.

Though, to play devil's advocate, does your opinion also extend to Christmas day off, paid for by the taxpayers?

Or what about mandatory overtime for people who work for the government on Sundays (such as snow plow operators, police officers, and emergency maintenence workers)?

These days off exist because this country was founded by Christians, though the constitution supposedly protects the right of people belonging to all religious groups. So if I want to work on Christmas, and I'm employed by the government, do they have the right to tell me I'm not allowed to come in? Do they have the right to lock the doors on that day? Is that a violation of my constitutional right? And as a taxpayer, is it within my constitutional right to refuse to pay taxes that pay extra for people to work overtime on the Christian sabbath?

Stop trying to seduce me Bestatte.

There are many things in our Government that were brought on by Christianity... can't buy beer on Sundays, "In God We Trust", etc...

I'm not asking for everything to be changed.. I am asking that the current laws be upheld.. and in the case of the 10 Commandment Monument in a State Office building, it was.

[Tendarian]

You would think most gemstone players would see why consistency in the seperation of church and state would be a good thing. How often do we hear Simu making two different decisions on the same problem (restoring one character,not the other,etc.). They in my opinion should remove the inconsistencies of it or let it all be ok.

[Edaarin]

Neff, the 10 Commandments aren't exactly like singing Christmas songs. Having them in the court room gives the impression that the judge will be more lenient if you're a Christian. Not good for those of us that aren't good old boys from the South.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Neff, the 10 Commandments aren't exactly like singing Christmas songs. Having them in the court room gives the impression that the judge will be more lenient if you're a Christian. Not good for those of us that aren't good old boys from the South.

Well you make a good point, and in the current system we have, i'd be inclined to agree. But if religious symbols were allowed everywhere and nobody thought "oh well that's offensive", and bitched, then I have my doubts that anyone would care or notice at all.

if or if not the ten comandments are posted in a room would not make a judge decide diffrently... think about it...
if you believe something if it is on the wall behind you or in your mind will not make your chose diffrently

[Bestatte]

I think they should toss the 10 commandments out of the government, as written. If the government, as duly appointed and elected officers of our country, determine that they are in the best interests of its citizens, then they can reinstate them as laws and place them wherever they damned well please.

Some of them -are- laws - such as, "Thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal."

In the meantime, if the government is gonna let people off on Christmas or get paid overtime to work it, then I want Rosh Hashana off without having to count it against personal day or vacation time. Or pay me time and a half to work that day.

Oh and since MY holiest day of the year is my birthday - since without it I wouldn't exist, then I want that day off too, with pay, as its own High Holy Day and not count it against personal time or vacation time.

And Parkbandit can bring me chocolate truffles and massage my toes on that holiest day of the year.

Well I would like to point out one thing
It is Thou shalt not "MURDER" not kill

[Tendarian]

The Edine really is the best.

[HarmNone]

Exodus 10:13. Thou shalt not kill.

The sixth Commandment does not specifiy murder.

HarmNone

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Bestatte
In the meantime, if the government is gonna let people off on Christmas or get paid overtime to work it, then I want Rosh Hashana off without having to count it against personal day or vacation time. Or pay me time and a half to work that day.

Oh and since MY holiest day of the year is my birthday - since without it I wouldn't exist, then I want that day off too, with pay, as its own High Holy Day and not count it against personal time or vacation time.


I think you could successfully accomplish the first goal and might have a bit of trouble on the second (time off with pay? Scandalous!).

[HarmNone]

Heh. Every business for whom I have written or administered Human Resources Policy and Procedures has awarded the benefit of one's birthday off. It was added if it was not already in place. It is a relatively low-cost benefit that means a lot to individual employees. :)

HarmNone