Ask Tony Blair why England got involved.

[Back]

Yeah, well so do we. Obviously you don't read the news do you? How about the Hutton case? Jamie Bulger? You catch em. Erm, please tell me where Osama and Saddam are plz. Thanks.

I dunno, ask fucking Tony fucking Blair. You said the US gets all their fucking intel from GB.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Backlash]

[StrayRogue]

No sorry dickhead, we ain't running this war you have fucked up so very badly.

[Back]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
No sorry dickhead, we ain't running this war you have fucked up so very badly.

You know? Denial is a river in Egypt.

[StrayRogue]

Come on, who pushed for this war to be waged hmmm?

well tell me how many friends do you have over there stray? how many do you keep in contact with?

[StrayRogue]

Oh a good few. We go around in a van looking for dumb ass american tourists and beating the shit out of them ala Trainspotting. Plz tell me, has the US asked for forgiveness for the rape, pillaging and general chaos it did to Vietnam?

Your right We did but we should have done the job in the first place in 1991 but the UN did not have the balls to finish the job

[Betheny]

Stray just wants to fight. If you do n't give him a fight, you won't be so angry. He could never understand any of the reasons behind the war.

Have the russians and chinese?

Or the french?

[StrayRogue]

What forgiven you for nearly pushing the button?

[Back]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh a good few. We go around in a van looking for dumb ass american tourists and beating the shit out of them ala Trainspotting. Plz tell me, has the US asked for forgiveness for the rape, pillaging and general chaos it did to Vietnam?

What about India?

This is stupid. Stray, c'mon, you ain;t gonna win here.

so tell me why is it that you guys follow everything we do?
do you not have a button?

[StrayRogue]

Of course I won't. Do you think you'd win if you went into a hypothetical bar filled with black people and screamed "nigger"? No I do not think you would.

[Betheny]

The UK is not a saint. Remember: What about the slaves?

[Back]

Originally posted by Maimara
The UK is not a saint. Remember: What about the slaves?

I think she said it all. STFU already.

heh forget india What about Israel and what they did to both the jews and palistinains

[StrayRogue]

Did I ever say it was? Am I not allowed to have negative opinions towards your country? Am I not allowed to post facts and numbers about how the Good Ole US of A is run by the rich and elite, while all the while feeding the country BS propoganda about how good it is? No? Hell, it was Edine who brought this up.

[Betheny]

All I know is that you ARE the pot calling the kettle black.

tell me How much money does the UK give out to countries in need?
how many billions are you putting into iraq... 87 here how much there eh?

[Back]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Did I ever say it was? Am I not allowed to have negative opinions towards your country? Am I not allowed to post facts and numbers about how the Good Ole US of A is run by the rich and elite, while all the while feeding the country BS propoganda about how good it is? No? Hell, it was Edine who brought this up.

Let us know when you get your TV licence renewed.

[StrayRogue]

If you say so Maim. It was Edine who couldn't take the fact I'd rather live in Canada than your fuck up of a country.

[JustMe]

Edine made a joke, you're just being an asshole. Get over yourself Stay. No one ever said the US was perfect, but it's a country, not all the people that reside in the US agree with eachother. You can't throw a fucking fit and say EVERYONE from the US comes from the same mold because guess what... we don't.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Did I ever say it was? Am I not allowed to have negative opinions towards your country? Am I not allowed to post facts and numbers about how the Good Ole US of A is run by the rich and elite, while all the while feeding the country BS propoganda about how good it is? No? Hell, it was Edine who brought this up.

Let us know when you get your TV licence renewed.

Let me know when you let two more planes take out some more landmarks, kthx?

No i just pointed out the flaws in your reasons for living there... if you like to have sex with bears i can understand it but beyond that i dont get it

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by The Edine]

[Betheny]

Well, this country may be a fuck up, Stray. It may well be a fuck up indeed. But this is the only country I would choose to live in, and it is the only country I would die defending. So why don't you take your combative, unkind words back to the UK and save your angst for something really useful. Like pissing and moaning about how much we suck, while you fucking whine to us when the goddamn terrorists finally decide how much YOUR country sucks and decide to kill thousands of YOUR nonmilitary citizens.

Talk to me when that happens, and don't you fucking dare insult me.

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Did I ever say it was? Am I not allowed to have negative opinions towards your country? Am I not allowed to post facts and numbers about how the Good Ole US of A is run by the rich and elite, while all the while feeding the country BS propoganda about how good it is? No? Hell, it was Edine who brought this up.

Let us know when you get your TV licence renewed.

Let me know when you let two more planes take out some more landmarks, kthx?

ahh he shows his ignorance even quicker than I thought! lets see the conspericy theory comes out... do you honistly fucking believe we LET plains hit the WTC and the Pentagon and let another one be brought down by passangers?

[StrayRogue]

Conspiracy? Its common knowledge this stuff was going to happen. OSAMA EVEN SENT A WARNING. He even tried in 92 as well.

[Betheny]

My theory is that this Brit is still pissed off about the revolutionary war. He needs some mint-green tea or something.

[JustMe]

So if I wrote a fucking letter to your country saying that I'm going to grab some huge terrorist group and bomb you, you saying that you'd be able to 100% effectively stop it? No. Grow the fuck up.

well I need to sleep so ill say this before I go

get a toothbrush

stray smileing

[StrayRogue]

I'll stop posting now. All I know is that you can't make me disagree with you BS, just like religion. Make whatever pathetic jokes you wish. Time will tell, time will tell. I hope it doesn't take another 9/11 just to show how easy it is for some stubborn people to rub shit in the face of the "most powerful country in the universe".

[Betheny]

Oh christ do we have to get that childish...

sorry he started it in the other thred ::hangs his head::

[Betheny]

Thanks a lot, th is could have been a good topic, now it's a fucking idiot fest.

Later.

[JustMe]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'll stop posting now. All I know is that you can't make me disagree with you BS, just like religion. Make whatever pathetic jokes you wish. Time will tell, time will tell. I hope it doesn't take another 9/11 just to show how easy it is for some stubborn people to rub shit in the face of the "most powerful country in the universe".

Stray, you're an ass. The only people that call the US names like that is stupid ass people like you who loves to see other countries go through misery and pain. EVERYONE is vulnerable. EVERYONE. There is not a single country out there that isn't. Thousands of innocent lives were lost and ruined during 9/11. Must you wish that on someone? Even as pathetic as you are, I'd never wish something like that to happen to your country... and pray they don't come after you next. ;)

[Back]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'll stop posting now. All I know is that you can't make me disagree with you BS, just like religion. Make whatever pathetic jokes you wish. Time will tell, time will tell. I hope it doesn't take another 9/11 just to show how easy it is for some stubborn people to rub shit in the face of the "most powerful country in the universe".

Its never been just US, Stray. Hope you find something that can wash your hands clean.

[Ansherak]

Originally posted by The Edine
No i just pointed out the flaws in your reasons for living there... if you like to have sex with bears i can understand it but beyond that i dont get it

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by The Edine]

I am assuming this must be some sorta first hand knowledge there stumpy?

Have you ever lived in any other country?

Lets see...

Born in Salem, Oregon.
Lived in the Yukon Territories
Vancouver British Columbia.
Then off to Belize for a year
From there to Eastern Russia for 8 months
Followed by a two year stint in Argentina
The 6 months in antartica......

Out of all the places I have "lived" I have never felt the need to bash the countries for this reason or that.

Lack of knowledge makes people look like fools, which are you?

Knowledgable, or, foolish.

Ansherak

[Jack]

Strayrogue,

Just so I'm clear on what information you have regarding 9/11, I have a few questions for you. Do you now, or have you ever worked for an intellegence agency, Brittish, or American? Do you now, or have you ever held a Security Clearence of Top Secret, or higher? Do you now, or have you ever had access to the information gathered by any US, or Brittish Intellegence Agency?

-Jack

[Geoff]

Originally posted by JustMe

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'll stop posting now. All I know is that you can't make me disagree with you BS, just like religion. Make whatever pathetic jokes you wish. Time will tell, time will tell. I hope it doesn't take another 9/11 just to show how easy it is for some stubborn people to rub shit in the face of the "most powerful country in the universe".

Stray, you're an ass. The only people that call the US names like that is stupid ass people like you who loves to see other countries go through misery and pain. EVERYONE is vulnerable. EVERYONE. There is not a single country out there that isn't. Thousands of innocent lives were lost and ruined during 9/11. Must you wish that on someone? Even as pathetic as you are, I'd never wish something like that to happen to your country... and pray they don't come after you next. ;)

Hate to say it, but welcome to our reality Italy.
Sorry you had to join us....
*Geoff bows in a reality he wishes he could ignore.*
(Sigh.......)

[Caiylania]

No country is perfect, no country's Government is what the perfect government should be, and I don't judge other countries that treat thier citizens well.

But for fucking real Stray, SO WHAT that you dont FUCKING agree with the war in Iraq. Those people were being MASS murdered by their government. Saddam and his warped, murderous family were regularly torturing, raping, killing anyone they felt like!

They tested weapons on their own people!! If the UK was doing that to their people we would save YOUR ASS too! But hey, if you want to be bombed by your Queen and watch your female family members be raped, sodomized, and killed, let me know. Because only then can you say we didn't do the right thing in Iraq.

[Ansherak]

Originally posted by Caiylania
No country is perfect, no country's Government is what the perfect government should be, and I don't judge other countries that treat thier citizens well.

But for fucking real Stray, SO WHAT that you dont FUCKING agree with the war in Iraq. Those people were being MASS murdered by their government. Saddam and his warped, murderous family were regularly torturing, raping, killing anyone they felt like!

They tested weapons on their own people!! If the UK was doing that to their people we would save YOUR ASS too! But hey, if you want to be bombed by your Queen and watch your female family members be raped, sodomized, and killed, let me know. Because only then can you say we didn't do the right thing in Iraq.


I think, Caiylania, the point he was trying to make, was that this situation that was occurring in Iraq, is occurring aswell in other countries that just aren't lucky enough to be blessed (Cursed?) with an extremely valuable strategic resource.

Should Saddam have been ousted? I'd wager a good chunk of change and say yes, absolutely.

But call a spade a spade, the underlying reason was oil, and access to more of it.

D-

[Caiylania]

I won't deny the oil is a resource America wants and needs, but its not like Iraq is the only country we have tried to help.

I don't see the UK or Canada, or other countries trying to help other countries, so who are their citizens to judge the US for helping?

Hell, in WWII we were begged for help, but whenever WE ask for it the other countries stick up their noses and tell us to fuck off.

[Ansherak]

I'll have you take note of a previous post, I am actually an American citizen, living outside of the states right now.

So now that we're both on that high and mighty horse together....Lets discuss it a little less defensively, shall we?

I'm really not going to get into an argue of what has been done in the past nor what should have been done, hindsight truly is twenty/twenty.

ALL first world countries (G7/8) countries need oil at this particular time, no ones ever even tried to argue that point.

I think the powers that be in the rest of the "global" community just were not overly happy how the whole situation was handled, nor some of the blatant untruths that came to see the light of day....after the fact.

At no point have I said it wasn't something that shouldn't have been done, perhaps handled with a little more tact and support from the global community.

D-

[longshot]

Gayest thread ever!

Edine, genious is knowing when to quit.

He has 3,300+ posts for a reason...
there really is no point to continue.

Originally posted by Ansherak

Originally posted by The Edine
No i just pointed out the flaws in your reasons for living there... if you like to have sex with bears i can understand it but beyond that i dont get it

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by The Edine]

I am assuming this must be some sorta first hand knowledge there stumpy?

Have you ever lived in any other country?

Lets see...

Born in Salem, Oregon.
Lived in the Yukon Territories
Vancouver British Columbia.
Then off to Belize for a year
From there to Eastern Russia for 8 months
Followed by a two year stint in Argentina
The 6 months in antartica......

Out of all the places I have "lived" I have never felt the need to bash the countries for this reason or that.

Lack of knowledge makes people look like fools, which are you?

Knowledgable, or, foolish.

Ansherak

alas some people seem to take everything seriously
yes ive spent time in canada
happen to have family there
no there is not anything wrong with it as a country except maybe the healthcare system

[imported_Kranar]

<< I don't see the UK or Canada, or other countries trying to help other countries, so who are their citizens to judge the US for helping? >>

Not to turn this into a my country is better than yours or anything, but just to clarify:

Canada has participated in more peacekeeping missions than any other country in the world.

<< no there is not anything wrong with it as a country except maybe the healthcare system >>

Rated number 1 in the world for something like the past 7 years.

Once again, that doesn't make us the best or worst, or whatever, it is simply information. Take is as you will.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Kranar]

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< I don't see the UK or Canada, or other countries trying to help other countries, so who are their citizens to judge the US for helping? >>

Not to turn this into a my country is better than yours or anything, but just to clarify:

Canada has participated in more peacekeeping missions than any other country in the world.

<< no there is not anything wrong with it as a country except maybe the healthcare system >>

Rated number 1 in the world for something like the past 7 years.

Once again, that doesn't make us the best or worst, or whatever, it is simply information. Take is as you will.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Kranar]

My bad, shouldn't have made a blanket statement. Why though, do people attack a country for HELPING another country?

I stand by the fact though, that for whatever reasons people think that the US government went into Iraq, it was the right thing to do. That man and his family WERE the weapons of mass destruction, whether or not we find the actual bombs.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Caiylania]

it depends on who is rating the system
its a socialist system that picks and chooses who it will take care of
if your to old you wait I would be glad to post statistic if you wish me to karnar

[Caiylania]

Italy is socialist and it doesn't pick and choose, poor or rich you get healthcare and I have experienced their healthcare, it is top notch. At least they can't say, oh you don't have healthcare? Your screwed.

[Drew2]

This thread reminds me....

Some um.. people.. predicted that something very bad will happen in England today. Like mass destruction or something. I don't believe it, mostly because it was predicted by a bunch of people I consider crazy. But who knows. Watch the news today.


Edit: They predicted this over 2 months ago, I think.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Tayre]

[Ansherak]

A couple links from a different perspective, really is worth the look if you have the time.....

http://www.phillytalkradioonline.com/comment/usa.html

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/sinclair.htm#add


D-

PS: Some may already be aware of Gordon Sinclair, Just thought I'd throw these links up for those that aren't.

Originally posted by StrayRogue
What forgiven you for nearly pushing the button?


English man, English. I understand your blind rage makes it hard to see the screen and edit what you type but please..for the love of god stop this horrible mockery of the english language.

[PoppycockTheFool]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
If you say so Maim. It was Edine who couldn't take the fact I'd rather live in Canada than your fuck up of a country.

Our so called "fuck up of a country" helps protect your sorry ass. b00yah!

[Betheny]

Yeah I guess the US should just yank all foreign aid and all of our troops off all foreign soil just to please Stray.

If we concentrated all of our efforts simply on our own country we'd do awesome. But wouldn't Ethiopia and Russia and Israel be fucked :?:

[Bestatte]

Aw folks don't be mad at Stray. He still hasn't gotten over the mass exodus from England to the States back when our continent was first settled by the Brits.

I can see him now, at the Pub in Picadilly Square, sobbing over his pint and bemoaning the fact that so many thousands of people hated England so badly that they risked death to leave the continent and cross an ocean just to get the fuck away from them.


Note: I would LOVE to go to England, I've heard it's awesome. The above is sarcasm, for those of you with thick skulls.

[Tendarian]

I like Stray i just wish he would take a tranquilizer before he posted on politics or religion cause his points get clouded with name calling.

Also Kranar im intrested in Canada's peace keeping missions. Do they go alone and keep the peace? Ive never thought Canada had a big enough military to ship them off to so many places (you know the tug boat joke being Canada's Navy). I know it could be ignorance so thats why im asking.

And lastly as far as healthcare goes,even tho im conservative on most issues im actually for a healthcare system like Canada's. Maybe then jobs would pay people more since they arnt forking over so much for these benifits at least on the lower end type jobs where its needed most.

[Back]

This topic was started because another thread was being hijacked. I admit to being somewhat overly verbose in the topic's title due to frustration, but not at the British in general. Just want to make that clear.

At first I made this topic with the intent to let off the steam some of us feel, then ask that it be deleted... but thinking about it now, its good to remember these things that go on in our world today, to discuss them, and to be aware.

The war in Iraq is something we have to live with now, like it or not, no matter what country you are from. If Tony Blair, alone, were pushing for this war, I MIGHT have been more for it based solely on his ability to eloquently put into words his sheer determination that this was the right thing to do.

This discussion has reminded me that come next November, I'm going to be first in line at the polling booths.

Anyway, I'm changing the title, toning it down a little just out of respect for someone I feel is a true leader.

[imported_Kranar]

Canada doesn't pick and choose.

Everyone, EVERYONE who steps foot in Canada receives health care.

You don't even have to be a citizen to get health care.

You can always get private health care in Canada, there are private health insurance companies available. It's just the only time you'd ever need it is if you want like cosmetic operations or dental care.

[Tendarian]

Or dental care? Seriously no dental care is included in their healthcare system? I can see why cosmetic surgery isnt included cause it isnt really needed. I dont think any US health insurance companies cover that either, but dental care is pretty dang important not?

[Mistomeer]

You know what I don't get? People from other countries, who bitch and moan about how much the US sucks, and then they do it somewhere like this. I mean, if I live in Britian, and I hate the US, I don't think I'd go out of my way to use US products, GS, etc. However, if I'm choosing to put money into the pockets of Americans, I'm not going to go on and on about what a fuckup of a country the US is all the while handing them my hard earned pounds. But hey, that's just me.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Or dental care? Seriously no dental care is included in their healthcare system? >>

It all depends if it's just cosmetic or if it's a serious issue.

If you just wanted nice teeth and needed braces you'd have to pay for them or get private insurance, but if you suffered some trauma and needed braces then it would be payed for. Same with cosmetic surgery, if you were in some accident and your face is all fubar'd, then it would be payed for.

Here's a government site that details how our health care system works:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/medicare/FAQ.htm#top

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Kranar]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Any serious debate here has been derailed by Stray's inability to present an argument without insulting the opposition, and vice versa. I bleed Red, White and Blue, but am not at all insulted by his opinions, because he posts no facts, no well thought out arguments and makes sweeping statements.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion if you don't like the US, thats just fine. If you like the US, thats fine as well. When France or England or some other country gets its ass handed to them, we'll still be the first there to help, criticisms and all.

We aren't the best at everything, but we damn well have it better than many other countries. When I think what my life would be like had I been born in say, Panama, or China, I'm sure it'd be vastly different.

And like everything else, we can always improve -- criticisms presented in a well thought out fashion tend to make our country better. Bashing the US just solidifies those of us who love it against you.

Something to think about Stray.

[Edaarin]

If you don't calm down Stay, we're sending Madonna over to England forever.

EDIT: (this isn't to any one post, but to Stay's posting style in general) And way to characterize an entire country based on the actions of a handful of people. That's Sean-esque. Excuse me honorable white man, I have to go hop on my bike over to Hop Sing's to deliver egg rolls and fried rice. Me so sally!

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Edaarin]

[Souzy]

Originally posted by Edaarin
If you don't calm down Stay, we're sending Madonna over to England forever.

EDIT: (this isn't to any one post, but to Stay's posting style in general) And way to characterize an entire country based on the actions of a handful of people. That's Sean-esque. Excuse me honorable white man, I have to go hop on my bike over to Hop Sing's to deliver egg rolls and fried rice. Me so sally!

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Edaarin]

ROFLMAO!!!!! Oh Christ! I laughed so hard, I think I wet my pants! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[StrayRogue]

Of course I posted no facts Tayvin. Of course I didn't. Anyway, arguing with a bunch of Americans is as pointless as arguing with a bunch of Christian Fundamentalists.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Of course I posted no facts Tayvin. Of course I didn't. Anyway, arguing with a bunch of Americans is as pointless as arguing with a bunch of Christian Fundamentalists.

Or Brittish blowhards.

[StrayRogue]

Or them.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Kranar
Canada doesn't pick and choose.

Everyone, EVERYONE who steps foot in Canada receives health care.

You don't even have to be a citizen to get health care.

You can always get private health care in Canada, there are private health insurance companies available. It's just the only time you'd ever need it is if you want like cosmetic operations or dental care.

I just wanted to ask are you sure? The link you posted later said this:


Our national health insurance program is designed to ensure that all residents of Canada have access to medically necessary hospital and physician care on a prepaid basis. Residence in a province or territory is the basic requirement for insured health care coverage. The Canada Health Act defines a resident of a province or territory as:

"a person lawfully entitled to be or to remain in Canada who makes his home and is ordinarily present in the province, but does not include a tourist, a transient or a visitor to the province."

[Back]

Here is an interesting >LINK< (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-RTO-roitz&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20031113%2F081206804.htm&sc=roitz) on the whole subject.

[StrayRogue]

Thats pretty much the consensus here, yes.

"As an American living in Europe, I have tried to explain back home how negatively Americans are viewed in Europe."

Definately something NONE of you will understand until you come live here, I am afraid.

[Tendarian]

Id assume most Americans know they arnt loved in Europe especially after the UN thing with Iraq. On the other hand i know i dont look at most European countries positively either so i guess to each their own.

[peam]

Folks is folks.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Thats pretty much the consensus here, yes.

"As an American living in Europe, I have tried to explain back home how negatively Americans are viewed in Europe."

Definately something NONE of you will understand until you come live here, I am afraid.

I live as an American in Germany for 4 1/2 years, In Japan for 4 years, and in Panama for 3 years.

Yes, some people dislike Americans, but not nearly what you are making it out to be. More often than not, its very much the opposite.

My bad, shouldn't have made a blanket statement. Why though, do people attack a country for HELPING another country?

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Caiylania] [/quote]

Because they'd rather make a political victory then do something right in this world.

[StrayRogue]

Of course not Tayvin, you must know much more about the situation than me, mustn't you? I mean I ONLY live here don't I?

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by RangerD1
My bad, shouldn't have made a blanket statement. Why though, do people attack a country for HELPING another country?

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Caiylania]

Because they'd rather make a political victory then do something right in this world. [/quote]

Its this kind of fucking stuck up BS we hate about you guys. Doing something good? Political victory? WTF? You think you went to war with Iraq because it was the right thing to do? Ignorant moron.

[Tendarian]

How much are the Brittish paying to help rebuild Iraq? Everyone knows how much the US is giving. Im just curious since they seemed just as eager to go as us.

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by RangerD1
My bad, shouldn't have made a blanket statement. Why though, do people attack a country for HELPING another country?

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Caiylania]

Because they'd rather make a political victory then do something right in this world.

Its this kind of fucking stuck up BS we hate about you guys. Doing something good? Political victory? WTF? You think you went to war with Iraq because it was the right thing to do? Ignorant moron. [/quote]


So your saying the right thing to do was to keep Saddam in power?

It meant exactly what i meant it to say. That people would rather paint Saddam's tenure as a good thing than admit the right thing was to remove him from power.

[StrayRogue]

Erm, I will be making sure NONE of my tax money goes to help re-building Iraq. I did not support the war just like 47% of my country didn't. I'd much rather have it spent on internal issues that I give a shit about, instead of helping a warmongering country fix the shit its caused.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by RangerD1

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by RangerD1
My bad, shouldn't have made a blanket statement. Why though, do people attack a country for HELPING another country?

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Caiylania]

Because they'd rather make a political victory then do something right in this world.

Its this kind of fucking stuck up BS we hate about you guys. Doing something good? Political victory? WTF? You think you went to war with Iraq because it was the right thing to do? Ignorant moron.


So your saying the right thing to do was to keep Saddam in power?

It meant exactly what i meant it to say. That people would rather paint Saddam's tenure as a good thing than admit the right thing was to remove him from power. [/quote]

I meant exactly what I said. You went to war with Iraq for reasons other than "to get saddam out". You went to war for money, a foot-hold in the middle-east. If you wanted Saddam out you could have done it at pretty much any time in the last decade in a much less bloody and a much less costly way.

[Tendarian]

You can choose what your taxes go to there? A lot of people here didnt support it either yanno. On the other hand id be proud if my tax dollars went to help rebuild Iraq into a great democratic nation that others there can look up to and hope to acheive.

[StrayRogue]

No we can't. But it will be out of my cold, dead hands before Blair gets that money from me.

[Tendarian]

Haha do you have the equivalent of the IRS as well? :)

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Well, I can see "debating" with you is pointless. Ta Ta Stray. Go drink your haterade and continue insulting anyone who disagree's with you.

[GSLeloo]

I'm not reading most of this but...

We had no reason to go to war with Iraq. We went to war because Bush wanted to, because he used the grief and anger over 9/11 to fuel his war. He went to war for oil and revenge for his father. He didn't care about those people, he doesn't care about those people. All he cares about are his own agendas.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
If you say so Maim. It was Edine who couldn't take the fact I'd rather live in Canada than your fuck up of a country.


Stray, I'm glad you don't live here you stupid little pussy. I would have loved you and your boys to drive up on me and my two cousins when we were in England, you'd still be in the hospital you little bitch.

In the other thread you're asking why US dropped 15 million out of pediatrics funding or some shit, WOW, 15 MIL? It's fucking 15 million, that isn't shit. And we dropped 50 mil in funding to something else I forget what you said. How is that a bad thing? Why don't you say how much we give to them TOTAL, not just how much we cut back from. For all we know the government gave that group 2 billion the year before. You're such a fucking clown, STFU pussy.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Erm, I will be making sure NONE of my tax money goes to help re-building Iraq. I did not support the war just like 47% of my country didn't. I'd much rather have it spent on internal issues that I give a shit about, instead of helping a warmongering country fix the shit its caused.


So over half your country DID support the mission in Iraq. Cool!

If history is to be a quide should we not learn from it? Did not WWII start because countries were afraid of war and so decided to appease Hitler instead of standing up to him. By doing so we allowed Hitler to take bigger and bolder steps until he began to dominate Europe.

As equated to Sadam, for over 11 years, nations in the Security Counsel have been appeasing Sadam to keep war from starting with Iraq. In that time he has killed thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of his own people.

If the only reason we went to Iraq was for oil, then why did we wait so long to even get the refineries up and running, they still aren't even up to 100%.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Erm, I will be making sure NONE of my tax money goes to help re-building Iraq. I did not support the war just like 47% of my country didn't. I'd much rather have it spent on internal issues that I give a shit about, instead of helping a warmongering country fix the shit its caused.

Yes yes.. your country has a long storied history of appeasing dictators to avoid war.

Perhaps we should have just let Iraq take over Kuwait in the 1st Gulf War? Heck... it's a small country. Let's just give it to them to keep the peace. Who's going to miss it?

And the second Gulf War... I suppose we can all have our opinions, but I think the fact is pretty clear that Hussien wasn't about to bow to the demands of the world. After how many UN resolutions, countless inspections and promises not made.. I think 11 years is plenty of time for us to 'give peace a chance'.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Caiylania

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I did not support the war just like 47% of my country didn't.


So over half your country DID support the mission in Iraq. Cool!


Well, likely 47% is the majority because a good portion of Canadians probably said "Iraq, eh? Not sure what you're talking aboot"

[GSLeloo]

Why are we turning this into attacking each other for our countries actions?

Because he started it

[GSLeloo]

How about this, my eyes hurt too much to read all four pages. Someone sum up most of what's been said... even though I have a feeling it's just a country loyalty arguement...

[StrayRogue]

Atleast theres some sensible none gung ho people in your country Leloo. Every other conflict we've been in in recent years has had well over 75% support by the public. 50/50 is very close. But what the fuck do you know of politics? And as for letting dictators stay in power? Erm, what year did America join WW1 and WW2? Why didn't America order Saddam, Bin Laden etc killed off? They have had their chances. Please read up on it if you don't think its the truth. As for Hulkein...wtf ever my small minded little friend. Its people like you that there is for. Thankfuck idiots like you get killed in it eh?

[imported_Kranar]

<< I just wanted to ask are you sure? The link you posted later said this: >>

Yeah, I'm sure. That only says you have to lawfully reside in Canada, but many people who reside in Canada aren't citizens.

[Weedmage Princess]

I just fail to see why people have to judge countries on the actions of their leaders..which may or may not be favorable by the public?

[Moist Happenings]

This is exactly the reason that I burned out on my International Relations major. Can't you all just agree that nobody's going to have the same opinion in this matter?

The simple truth is this: There were majorities of all involved countries in the war, whatever their reasons. The US, UK, and Canada all sent troops.

Granted, I thought this war was idiocy from the beginning, and none of it was really "to liberate Iraq from a tyrannical dictator", but it's EVERYONE's problem now. You shouldn't be pointing fingers at each other saying that your country didn't support it and the US is horrible because they fucked up. The truth is ALL of us supported it, ALL of us fucked up, and ALL of us have to fix it.

Bush is an asshole for fueling his propaganda machine to lead American sheep to vote in his favor.

Blair supported the US in their decision because his country voted that way.

And Canada is doing as it always has. It pledged a completely useless amount of troops, but it did so for one reason alone. To show its support of the war and to be a good ally, as it has always been.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< I just wanted to ask are you sure? The link you posted later said this: >>

Yeah, I'm sure. That only says you have to lawfully reside in Canada, but many people who reside in Canada aren't citizens.

What about this part <<a transient or a visitor>> Transient is just a homeless person not? Someone who would need the health care most? And visitor seems to be someone lets say from the US just yanno visiting Canada? Thats not everyone then is it? Its still better than the US system i think,just curious.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Atleast theres some sensible none gung ho people in your country Leloo. Every other conflict we've been in in recent years has had well over 75% support by the public. 50/50 is very close. But what the fuck do you know of politics? And as for letting dictators stay in power? Erm, what year did America join WW1 and WW2? Why didn't America order Saddam, Bin Laden etc killed off? They have had their chances. Please read up on it if you don't think its the truth. As for Hulkein...wtf ever my small minded little friend. Its people like you that there is for. Thankfuck idiots like you get killed in it eh?


As far as when we joined WWI and WWII, are you referring to when we first sent supplies and advisors or when we actually sent troops in? Those are two different time frames.

As for my knowledge of politics, what would you like to know?

[Moist Happenings]

Additionally:

My country's penis is bigger than your country's penis.

[Tendarian]

And Canada is doing as it always has. It pledged a completely useless amount of troops, but it did so for one reason alone. To show its support of the war and to be a good ally, as it has always been.

I dont think Canada supported the Iraq issue at all,and they certainly didnt send any troops in either.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Tendarian

And Canada is doing as it always has. It pledged a completely useless amount of troops, but it did so for one reason alone. To show its support of the war and to be a good ally, as it has always been.

I dont think Canada supported the Iraq issue at all,and they certainly didnt send any troops in either.


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jan2003/can-j15.shtml

[Tendarian]

Hrmmm that link isnt working for me,but if it proves otherwise i stand corrected. If someone tells me France sent troops in too im gonna fall over stunned.

[Moist Happenings]

France was gonna send troops in but they surrendered before leaving Paris

;)

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Neff]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Transient is just a homeless person not? >>

No, a transient is someone who's stopping by. Homeless people get health care here.

Visitors from the U.S. often come to Canada to purchase drugs because their discounted in Canada (government subsidised)

[Moist Happenings]

Hey Kranar, you don't happen to know anything about getting citizenship in Canada do you? I'm considering moving to Montreal to go to school there. NYU just raised it's tuition by like 5 grand, and even paying like..out of country tuition there i'd be paying less.

EDIT: Fixed run on sentence..mostly.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Neff]

[Tendarian]

Ahh Thanks Kranar and btw you of all people will know for sure :) Did Canada support the US War in Iraq?

[Hulkein]

Bush isn't an asshole, there was good reason to go to war, that is why the Senate approved of it with a resounding YES. We took out a tyrant who killed thousands of his own citizens a year, and kept millions more in poverty. We freed a nation, just because you don't value your freedom doesn't mean shit when it comes to the rest of the globe.

Stray, get your head out of your ass, thanks. You said you and your friends drive around in vans beating up Americans, I'm just telling you I wish you tried with me and my cousins. Don't worry man, we Americans understand that your hatred is all out of envy and jealousness, it's really not that big of a problem.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Hulkein]

[StrayRogue]

Ah, the idiot doesn't even understand sarcasm. Nice to know you are utterly ignorant Hulkein. But hey, believe you went to war for humanitarian reasons.

[Hulkein]

I understand that it was probably sarcasm since you're too big of a pussy to fight anyone, even if you have numbers. I doubt you've ever thrown a punch in your life.

I don't really care if there are secret agendas because I firmly support the humanitarian aspects of the war. Fact is, if gas is cheaper in a few years from now, and a nation is free and a crazy tyrant isn't scheming to kill Israeli's and Americans, it's all positive outcomes.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Bush isn't an asshole,


You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.

[GSLeloo]

Neff hid it right on. It is all about how macho the country is, how strong it looks, how pretty, how brave, how blah, how blah, how blah... Basically, it's about this country showing how it's better than the others.

The reason no one here can agree is because everyone is going something like this "I am a member of this country and if anyone threatens it I'm not going to listen to reason but beat them into the ground."

Instead of being members of a country, how about being members of the human race? And in that sense, how is any war right? Waging war to kill our fellow citizens...

[AkMan]

Damn Stray. I'm offended by the blanket statements here. Guess all americans are idiots? I suppose your fecal matter doesn't have an odor either eh?

Chill out.

[Jack]

You have to keep in mind that Stray is incapable of debating like an adult. He has no real facts, just a few conspiracy theories that he's bought into. Rather than attempt any sort of calm rational debate, he will instead resort to calling anyone who doesn't agree with him brainwashed, an idiot, a moron, or any combination there of. Stray is the main reason why there will never be a real political, or religeous discussion on these forums.

-Jack

[Scott]

<<<Instead of being members of a country, how about being members of the human race? And in that sense, how is any war right? Waging war to kill our fellow citizens...>>>

So we should have let Hilter kill millions of more people?

[Caiylania]

It is about being a member of the human race. It is ok for our service men to die for our people, but not for the people of another country? Regardless of its Iraq or not. I believe that all people deserve a life free of fear that wives, daughters, friends, can be raped with no law that cares. That children and adults alike are murdered whenever the whim strikes.

I don't really care WHY we went, since none of us agree anyway. I do care though, that at least one more ruthless and evil group of people have been thrown down, so that the people there have at least a CHANCE to regain their human rights.

It is up to them in the end, but now they have a chance. And does anyone deny that at least?

[GSLeloo]

So it's ok to kill people and have our people killed as long as we can say it's to help those people? Because it's not like there are tons of terrorist sects making their way into Iraq (or already there) and just waiting to take over? Right?

We "removed" one dictator... and now we wait for all the others to move in, take over, kill more of our men and more of those people. So yeah, we did a great job.

[Scott]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
So it's ok to kill people and have our people killed as long as we can say it's to help those people? Because it's not like there are tons of terrorist sects making their way into Iraq (or already there) and just waiting to take over? Right?

We "removed" one dictator... and now we wait for all the others to move in, take over, kill more of our men and more of those people. So yeah, we did a great job.

You didn't answer the question. Should we have allowed Hiltler to kill millions and millions of more innocent people? If you answered no to that question, how do you keep him from doing it without war.

[AkMan]

Also Stray I wanna know:

You working on a computer made in the US?
What type of vehicle do you drive? Canadian or English made?
What about beer? I'm sure you don't drink any American beer
Hrm, food? I'm sure you can't stand ANY american food right.

I just love people who sit across the border and slam Americans while they are using all these American products. Pitiful.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Super hugs to my super family!

[Weedmage Princess]

Right on Grampa Sintik.

I mean, I won't get into it about this Iraq issue because quite simply...things are coming out now that makes it look like the reasons given to the American public initially to go to the war...might not have been the real reasons..and to be honest, I haven't been following everything as closely as I should, so I'm in the dark somewhat. Won't comment on something I know nothing about...HOWEVER...the "We shouldn't ever go to war, we're all humans, rah rah rah" stuff...to quote a friend of mine...

"Peace is the TRUE Anarchy because it goes against HUMAN NATURE."

...wars have been going on forever, and they're going to continue to go on..that is until some other life form comes down and threatens to wipe out the species..then yeah...we'll all come together.

Don't get me wrong, I rather there not be war, either. And I'd love to live in a world where we all can get along...unfortunately we don't. We live in a world full of powerhungry, hateful people (and no, they don't ALL live in the US) who literally HATE people over the pettiest things. People who have little to no regard for human life...I'm all about peace, but I'm also all about not walking down the street and watching a friggin airplane crash into a building, then shitting bricks worrying if my mom and other family members are still alive. BUT that's just me.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
Instead of being members of a country, how about being members of the human race?

Which works great... assuming everyone does it. This (I bet) is why Jesus didn't tell us to be pacifists. Because you get into Hitler situations, where someone must be stopped (there is no question of this, yes?) and as has been brought up, the only way to do so is with war.

Does this mean that the war in Iraq was justified? No. Hussein != Hitler. But pacifism does not work. There will be peace someday. Pacifism is not a way to reach it.

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by Gemstone101

You didn't answer the question. Should we have allowed Hiltler to kill millions and millions of more innocent people? If you answered no to that question, how do you keep him from doing it without war.

Oh sorry about that, I didn't know it was directed to me. I think we all agree the situation in Iraq is much different than the one in Germany. If it wasn't, then the first time we went into the Middle East, it would've been the end, figured out, and solved. The Middle East has very large, intricate problems that won't be solved by simply bullying our way in and saying we decided their leader wasn't acceptable and taking him out.

Also, Hitler not only killed millions of people, he was trying to take over Europe. We only went in when they continued to sink our ships (for technically good reasons). Iraq actually didn't make any attack on us... so why did we go in?

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
So it's ok to kill people and have our people killed as long as we can say it's to help those people? Because it's not like there are tons of terrorist sects making their way into Iraq (or already there) and just waiting to take over? Right?

First, you say it is ok to kill people, I'm assuming you mean Saddam's army. We gave them detailed instructions on how to surrender without being attacked before the war, and a majority of them heeded the directions. Those who didn't, burn in hell I hope they die painfully.

The American's who die, while tragic, are dieing for a great cause, and no one forced them to enlist. Every soldier knows the possible outcome of their brave sacrifice.

A terrorist sect and a dictator ruling a country are trememndously different. One can impose his will on every citizen of his country, while terrorist sects sit in a basement and plan suicide attacks.


Iraq actually didn't make any attack on us... so why did we go in?


In the first Gulf War, Iraq fired scuds at Israel when we invaded, that was their way of attacking us. Saddam and his regime would no doubt do the same in the future, except with chemical, biological, or nuclear missiles next time. And yes, there would have inevitably been a next time. There is no reason to leave someone like Saddam in power when we know what he is capable of.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Hulkein]

[Scott]

So if Hiltler continued to kill people in his OWN country without attacking other countries it's fine and we shouldn't get involved because it doesn't effect us? Whether or not the reason we went in, it stopped him from killing people and that was a GOOD thing. *GASP* War CAN be a GOOD thing!

We went into Iraq for many reasons. We went in for oil. We went in for WMD. We went in to stop genocide. We went in to remove a dictator who had no respect for other countries or human life. Whether or not the reason, the out come will eventually accomplish all these tasks. I'm glad we went into Iraq, I hope North Korea is next......

Anyways, I won't be around to answer questions, I got a Flyers game to go to so..... I'll answer later.

[GSLeloo]

I'm not saying it was wrong to go into Germany. Even going into Iraq isn't completely wrong. There people needed help but do they actually want the help? The problem is, we're hurting our own country to help one that hates us and one we're making a mess of.

Stop distracting me so I can work on my art homework!

[GSLeloo]

And in response to Hulkein, in the Israel vs hmm.. Arabic nations, Israel is just as wrong as they are.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue And as for letting dictators stay in power? Erm, what year did America join WW1 and WW2? Why didn't America order Saddam, Bin Laden etc killed off? They have had their chances. Please read up on it if you don't think its the truth.

We wouldn't have had to if you British weren't such pussies. Be thankful we bailed your asses out or you would still be wearing those crooked crosses. :smug:

[Moist Happenings]

How is Israel wrong? In my opinion, Palestine doesn't deserve Sovreignty over anything. Same with Germany, Italy, and Japan, for that matter.

I'm a firm believer that if you lose a war you lose your right to have a country. None of this "You guys can't march anymore. lolz. that'll teach you". If Germany had won do you believe that England would not be called Germany right now? So why is Germany still allowed to exist. (Not that I have any problem with Germany at all these days, they're a great nation) Their entire country backed an attack against Europe. Japan's entire country followed the Shogun. Italy...well Italy was mostly useless but they followed like sheep anyway.

Back to the point though. On the DAY that Israel and Palestine were founded(yes, they were originally two separate countries where Israel now sits), 6 Arab armies attacked Israel in an effort to "drive them into the sea". Now what happened was Palestine got rocked, so did the other armies, and they lost land. So in my opinion, Palestine attacked and lost, and now has no right to exist. Ever.

Israel has been CONSTANTLY attacked by these same nations, and each time, Israel prevailed(save one), and took land. Now, in the 70s Israel took the entirety of the Egyptian Sinai, effectively tripling the size of their country. They gave it back. And now Palestine and the rest of Arabia believes that it has the right to bitch and moan that Israel is wrong? Screw that.

[Parkbandit]

Oh come now Neff.. if you lose a war, you shouldn't be a country? There wouldn't BE any countries then. What country hasn't lost a war?

As sad as it sounds, war does have it's place. The threat of war and the hell it brings must be out there as a negotiating tactic for countries that will not comply with the rest of the world. All other means should be exhausted... but at the end of the day the threat must be there. If you simply threaten to do it.. but never truly intend to act on it.. then it's not a threat.

[Moist Happenings]

Well I'm talking about massive war here, Falgrin. Not just any war.

If your capital is taken, your army is destroyed, and you have absolutely NO other option but surrender or be killed, you should lose your country, or you should die.

[Moist Happenings]

I mean, how come it goes for the attacker, but not for the loser?

Example. Rome takes greece. Greece becomes Rome.

Germany attacks Europe, Germany loses to Europe. Germany stays Germany

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
I'm not saying it was wrong to go into Germany. Even going into Iraq isn't completely wrong. There people needed help but do they actually want the help? The problem is, we're hurting our own country to help one that hates us and one we're making a mess of.

Stop distracting me so I can work on my art homework!

Don't pay TOO much attention to the liberal media on "The Iraq People don't want us there!!". I know a couple people that work for my company that went there and they said the overwelming majority of the true population of Iraq was happy as shit we came in.

Yes, there are some that do not want us there... gee wonder why. Now they are out of power and cannot rule the country with an iron fist. Their days of robbing/raping/plundering are over. No shit they don't want us there.

Do you really think civilized people would use suicide as a means of blowing up their own population?

[Moist Happenings]

Yeah i'm going to have to agree with Falgrin on that point. I've got an uncle over there now and he says that the general populace is overjoyed to have them there.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Neff
Well I'm talking about massive war here, Falgrin. Not just any war.

If your capital is taken, your army is destroyed, and you have absolutely NO other option but surrender or be killed, you should lose your country, or you should die.

Hrm...well lets do try to not get all emotional about things here and be a little more logical. Any treaty that imposes horribly draconian terms upon the loser is merely increasing the odds of future hostility breaking out by an incredible degree.

The reason that the terms for the axis powers were not as harsh as those in the Treaty of Versailles is that this lesson was learned at the horrible cost of some fifty million deaths in World War II.

It's not about simply forgetting all the wrongs your enemy may or may not have done but rather about increasing the chances for a lasting peace.

[Tendarian]

I think i read somewhere that something like 63% or so are happy we came and ousted Saddam. I believe that number would rise a lot if we could produce Saddam's body and no one feared he would return to power.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Neff
Well I'm talking about massive war here, Falgrin. Not just any war.

If your capital is taken, your army is destroyed, and you have absolutely NO other option but surrender or be killed, you should lose your country, or you should die.

Thats a great way to start world wars id assume. Imagine how Iran and Syria might have reacted if they thought the war in Iraq would make it USjr?

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Neff
Well I'm talking about massive war here, Falgrin. Not just any war.

If your capital is taken, your army is destroyed, and you have absolutely NO other option but surrender or be killed, you should lose your country, or you should die.

Hrm...well lets do try to not get all emotional about things here and be a little more logical. Any treaty that imposes horribly draconian terms upon the loser is merely increasing the odds of future hostility breaking out by an incredible degree.

The reason that the terms for the axis powers were not as harsh as those in the Treaty of Versailles is that this lesson was learned at the horrible cost of some fifty million deaths in World War II.

It's not about simply forgetting all the wrongs your enemy may or may not have done but rather about increasing the chances for a lasting peace.

Oh I know perfectly well the circumstances created by Versailles was the cause for WWII in the first place, and i'm not getting emotional about things really. Logically(by my logic, which I admit is someone skewed compared to others'), if we took away ALL of germany's sovreignty in the first place, not just most of it, we wouldn't have had a problem. Completely dismantle the country and squash the nationalism of its former citizens by example and ruling with an iron fist, like they would have if they had won. Give them the same courtesy they would have given us.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Neff
Well I'm talking about massive war here, Falgrin. Not just any war.

If your capital is taken, your army is destroyed, and you have absolutely NO other option but surrender or be killed, you should lose your country, or you should die.

Hrm...well lets do try to not get all emotional about things here and be a little more logical. Any treaty that imposes horribly draconian terms upon the loser is merely increasing the odds of future hostility breaking out by an incredible degree.

The reason that the terms for the axis powers were not as harsh as those in the Treaty of Versailles is that this lesson was learned at the horrible cost of some fifty million deaths in World War II.

It's not about simply forgetting all the wrongs your enemy may or may not have done but rather about increasing the chances for a lasting peace.

Neff is at least 9 steps ahead of me.

(edited to make that ^) And Canada is US Jr. Duh. Ask Kranar or any other Canadian.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Latrinsorm]

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Latrinsorm]

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Tendarian

Originally posted by Neff
Well I'm talking about massive war here, Falgrin. Not just any war.

If your capital is taken, your army is destroyed, and you have absolutely NO other option but surrender or be killed, you should lose your country, or you should die.

Thats a great way to start world wars id assume. Imagine how Iran and Syria might have reacted if they thought the war in Iraq would make it USjr?

I agree, it's a good way to start a world war. However, Iran flip flops relations with us more than a high school couple breaks up and gets back together.

Besides. I'm talking large scale here. Iraq is small in comparison to WWII. What i'm saying mostly applies when one country attacks, and loses.

Germany Invades England -> Germany wins -> England becomes Germany Jr., right?

So by that same logic:

Germany Invades England -> England pushes them back and invades Germany, and wins -> Germany becomes England Jr.

[Tendarian]

Haha i bet Kranar would have a heart attack or be pissed if people said Canada was USjr. The main theme of Canadaians i know is look how different we from the US and point out every lil thing. To me it seems their whole Identity is pointing out how they are different from the US.

[Tendarian]

Germany Invades England -> Germany wins -> England becomes Germany Jr., right?

So by that same logic:

Germany Invades England -> England pushes them back and invades Germany, and wins -> Germany becomes England Jr.

Thats exactly why we are better than the tyrants. We dont rape their women or make them all slaves either.

[Fraidycat]

I need a gun then I can start my own war . . .
hmm . . . what to fight for . . . .
::ping::
I got it!!!
Lets fight for peace . . . . pffffft Fucking stupid

[Fraidycat]

Ps
I hate my country and I hate all the others too . . . . umm except Jamaica (apart from the treating women like shit thing they have over there)

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Tendarian

Germany Invades England -> Germany wins -> England becomes Germany Jr., right?

So by that same logic:

Germany Invades England -> England pushes them back and invades Germany, and wins -> Germany becomes England Jr.

Thats exactly why we are better than the tyrants. We dont rape their women or make them all slaves either.

I didn't say anything about rape or slavery.

Offer the remaining citizens partial citizenship. Make them a territory like Guam, or Puerto Rico.

The ones who don't like it can either find someplace else that will let them live there, or die trying to defend the tyrannical ideals they attacked with.

[GS4Gurl]

Wow why is it I always get late into the interesting threads??

Anyhow, I didn't read every post so I hope I make sense. Just a few things caught my attention.

I am all for war and I think we were right in doing this one. On the other hand I think if they (Iraq) want to kill each other over stupid nonsense, then hell, let them.

Now about some Brit people dissing America. Well maybe they should think about that for a moment. Where are we originally from? Most of us, that are white are decended from where? Europe. So technically they're dissing themselves. Where was George Washington, the FATHER of our country from?

[Tendarian]

Ok then thats exactly why we are better than the tyrants.

[Moist Happenings]

In truth, actually, my last post was one of the many ideas we had about dealing with germany after WWII in the first place.

What did it come down to in the end?

Nobody wanted to deal with Germany's problems.

[Fraidycat]

When someone says 'Brits' or 'Yanks' can ye feel that lil pinch in your stomach that tells you your hurt?
I hate this thread . . and yes before you say it . . I am going to stop looking at it

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Fraidycat
When someone says 'Brits' or 'Yanks' can ye feel that lil pinch in your stomach that tells you your hurt?
I hate this thread . . and yes before you say it . . I am going to stop looking at it

Good,its nice when people have the brains to stop looking at something that either annoys them,bores them,or pisses them off. Kudos to you.

[Moist Happenings]

I second that.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
And in response to Hulkein, in the Israel vs hmm.. Arabic nations, Israel is just as wrong as they are.

LOL, no, they aren't. Israel doesn't kill innocent civilians out of some insane jihad. How could you even say that? I'm not Jewish, and I'd say you're crazy as hell.

Iraq firing missiles at an innocent country to get back at the US, how does Israel do anything to that effect that would make them 'just as bad.'?

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by GSLeloo
And in response to Hulkein, in the Israel vs hmm.. Arabic nations, Israel is just as wrong as they are.

LOL, no, they aren't. Israel doesn't kill innocent civilians out of some insane jihad. How could you even say that? I'm not Jewish, and I'd say you're crazy as hell.

Iraq firing missiles at an innocent country to get back at the US, how does Israel do anything to that effect that would make them 'just as bad.'?

Hulkein, I side with Israel and even I realize that they're far from perfect themselves. Justified in doing what they do? Maybe. But Saints they ain't.

[GSLeloo]

If you read the book called Exodus, it does give you a glimpse of the shit they did just to get their nation. And that book was written to basically make you on their side. They were attacked first, they attacked back. The difference is, a lot of the people attacking them have sticks and stones, we gave Israel tanks.

[Tendarian]

They dont have sticks and stones anymore though. They have bombs and blow up children in buses on purpose. If they still just threw rocks at people and Israel retaliated with bombs and tanks,most people would side with the stone throwers.

[GSLeloo]

I don't side with either side when it comes to Israel. I am not Jewish, I don't hate people that are Jewish. I simply recognize in that situation, neither side is innocent.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
If you read the book called Exodus, it does give you a glimpse of the shit they did just to get their nation. And that book was written to basically make you on their side. They were attacked first, they attacked back. The difference is, a lot of the people attacking them have sticks and stones, we gave Israel tanks.

Their fault they attacked in the first place. They were a sovreign nation. Israel was minding its own business. They can't be sore losers now.

[GSLeloo]

They never did though. They called the sticks and stones attacks or acts of terrorism... they called Israel using their nice weapons, acts of retaliation.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by Tendarian
They dont have sticks and stones anymore though. They have bombs and blow up children in buses on purpose. If they still just threw rocks at people and Israel retaliated with bombs and tanks,most people would side with the stone throwers.

That's actually a purposeful tactic. And a smart one. They COULD have guns if they wanted to, they COULD attack them outright. But they don't, because Israel would slaughter them. If they throw rocks, and israel shoots guns, Israel looks like the bad guy.

I forget exactly what the term is right now, I'll look it up in my dictionary of politics when I get home.

I have more respect for the Jewish nation than i have respect for anything on this planet. To do what they have done with what they have had and been faced with is...incredible.

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by RangerD1
I have more respect for the Jewish nation than i have respect for anything on this planet. To do what they have done with what they have had and been faced with is...incredible.

Well, in truth what they had was a bunch of weapons and tanks and fighters with "Made in the USA" stamped on them in the beginning.

However, in the most recent conflicts they were given only enough to repel the invaders, not take more land.

They nearly lost in ...67 I think it was. But Kissenger came up with the brilliant idea to give them only enough so that they would have to sign a treaty. Not enough that they'd win and then take more land from the Arabs, as they had in previous conflicts.

[Moist Happenings]

Er, my bad. I think 67 was when they struck pre-emptively and took the Sinai. I'll look it up when I get home.

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by RangerD1
I have more respect for the Jewish nation than i have respect for anything on this planet. To do what they have done with what they have had and been faced with is...incredible.

Just curious, what have they done and what were they faced with?

Originally posted by GSLeloo

Originally posted by RangerD1
I have more respect for the Jewish nation than i have respect for anything on this planet. To do what they have done with what they have had and been faced with is...incredible.

Just curious, what have they done and what were they faced with?

Neff, you might wanna look more indepthy into the American involvement as well. They did give a sizable amount of aid and intelligence, but it doesn't diminish what they accomplished.

Which is basicly establish a country in Hostile terrorty (god i can't spell tonight) and survive invasion by what? 5 countries and persist despite continued oppisition from the same countries?

[Moist Happenings]

Originally posted by RangerD1

Originally posted by GSLeloo

Originally posted by RangerD1
I have more respect for the Jewish nation than i have respect for anything on this planet. To do what they have done with what they have had and been faced with is...incredible.

Just curious, what have they done and what were they faced with?

Neff, you might wanna look more indepthy into the American involvement as well. They did give a sizable amount of aid and intelligence, but it doesn't diminish what they accomplished.

Which is basicly establish a country in Hostile terrorty (god i can't spell tonight) and survive invasion by what? 5 countries and persist despite continued oppisition from the same countries?


Uhh..I thought I made it clear that America gave a lot of aid. In every conflict except the one Israel almost lost, America gave them an overwhelming force. Read my previous posts more carefully. That's what I was sayin'

I missed a lot today...I'm not going to bother with spelling so you will have to deal with it

First on the British American issue
Let us look back at history at the relations between Great Britain and China
Because of Britons addiction to TEA you sold OPIUM to china and there was a little war... then let us next look at south America where Brittany basically eradicated all of the Dutch that settled there... I believe they called themselves the Afrikaners

Now On what is going on in Iraq now
There are many reasons that we are there both strategic and humanitarian
We in America have an underlying cause to spread democracy across the world.
The mid east has none true democratic country and we hope to change that
The Americans wish to have a area in center of the mid-east that will be democratic and can spread those beliefs and views to the other countries
There has been a problem with the religious totalitarian governments in the mid east and this is a way to defeat them without direct conflict
International oil prices are a issue
The rape murder and atrocities that were committed by sadams government is a issue

Ill get into Israel later

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
If you read the book called Exodus, it does give you a glimpse of the shit they did just to get their nation. And that book was written to basically make you on their side. They were attacked first, they attacked back. The difference is, a lot of the people attacking them have sticks and stones, we gave Israel tanks.

In the book of Exodus God is on the side of the Israelites. He drives out the Canaanites before them. Technically, the Israelites did nothing to the people who they took land from. Going by the book of Exodus.

[Moist Happenings]

Yes! Yes! Look at Latrinsorm's sig! I'm famous again!

LOVE ME!

Uhh..I thought I made it clear that America gave a lot of aid. In every conflict except the one Israel almost lost, America gave them an overwhelming force. Read my previous posts more carefully. That's what I was sayin'

Well it also sounded like you were saying Israel only peservered only because of American assistance.

[StrayRogue]

You really are utterly ignorant aren't you Edine?

[GSLeloo]

[i]Originally posted by Latrinsorm
In the book of Exodus God is on the side of the Israelites. He drives out the Canaanites before them. Technically, the Israelites did nothing to the people who they took land from. Going by the book of Exodus.


....


Not the religious book! Exodus by Uris! Leon Uris I think! About the Jews after WWII, going to Israel, the early years there.

No you are to ignorant to admit that your views are slanted... as well as your apperent belief that you know better than everyone else... please tell me exactly Why is the us there?

In an uninsulting factual way please so we can have a real debate of Ideas

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSLeloo

[i]Originally posted by Latrinsorm
In the book of Exodus God is on the side of the Israelites. He drives out the Canaanites before them. Technically, the Israelites did nothing to the people who they took land from. Going by the book of Exodus.


....


Not the religious book! Exodus by Uris! Leon Uris I think! About the Jews after WWII, going to Israel, the early years there.

<blush> Ok, never read that one.

England smells. Scotland rulz. Take that! (No one cares about <snicker> Wales <snicker>)

[GSLeloo]

It's ok, I had to read it as a summer book for school. it was actually ok to read (style-wise) but the content and events were disgusting. Yes it showed the atrocities that the Arab neighbors commited, it also showed how disgusting the Israelis began to become and how cold, cruel, and basically um... well, add in an adjective...