Interviews tomorrow and Friday! w00t!

[TheEschaton]

So, I have interviews tomorrow and the day after for 1L summer jobs. Since I'm interested in Gov't/Public Interest sort of work anyways, these jobs are pretty important to me, so I'd appreciate the thoughts and prayers.

Tomorrow:
Neighborhood Legal Services (civil litigation for indigent clients) (Middlesex County).
U.S. DoJ, Executive Office for Immigration Regulation, Boston Immigration Court.
Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights (Constitutional Law stuff), Boston.

Friday:
Harvard Legal Aid Bureau (high class civil litigation for indigent clients), Suffolk County.
Massachusetts Attorney General, Boston
Massachusetts Correctional Legal Services, Boston
New York County DA's Office, NYC
Greater Boston Legal Services, (civil and criminal litigation for indigent clients).

I'm really looking to get the Boston Immigration court deal, or the NY County DA (can anyone say Law & Order?). Or the Mass AG, though I want to do more criminal trial work, really, and their criminal stuff is mainly white collar.

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

Uhm good luck or something.

[DaFilcher]

I didn't see an interview with Crane, Poole and Schmidt. Now that's a law firm I'd want to work at!

[HarmNone]

I'll be thinking of you, TheE, and wishing you luck with your interviews. I really hope you get a position that will be challenging and enjoyable. :)

[TheEschaton]

The only law firm I applied to, I already interviewed at. It's called Hodgson Russ. It went down on the 4th. We'll see if I get that one, but I think the three jobs I mentioned would definitely take over that.

Well, BC Law has a policy that forces us to take any job for a federal circuit judge (which the DoJ Immigration Court contains 6 of) so as not to piss off judiciaries.

But even Mass AG or NYC DA I'd consider over the firm job.

-TheE-

[Artha]

Good luck, knock 'em dead.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Good luck. If I've learned anything in both performing interviews and being interviewed, the best advice I ever got , EVER, was to practice being interviewed before hand. I've even gone so far as to video myself -- it's amazing the things you see.

That being said, good luck again.

[Bobmuhthol]

Tell NYC to fuck off and stay in Boston.

[Sean of the Thread]

Tell NYC to fuck off and stay in Boston.

Or not.

[Keller]

Did you apply for any externships? If you've not -- get on it. If you're not going to get paid anyways -- I'd HIGHLY recommend externing this summer and summering at a public interest firm next summer. The way law hiring works is that you take the best thing you can get 1L summer in order to get the best gig possible 2L summer. The best job you can get (aside from a fancy firm job 1L summer, which means you've got a 3.5+ and intangibles) is an externship. If you really want to end up in a big city DA -- working for a judge this summer will be infinately more helpful than working public interest this summer.

If you do indeed go public interest as a career (I don't consider DA to be public interest) you can begin 2L summer and if you're not a shmuck you'll likely get an offer at the end of the summer. I'm not saying you have to summer with a judge to get a DA job -- but do it if you can. It's more selective and therefore more prestigious. Not to mention the networking opportunities are much more helpful.

Plus, from my friends who externed, it's a tremendous self-esteem boost to see some of the morons who practice law.

[Miss X]

Good luck Alok! I think the more interviews you do, the more confident you feel about them. I had to go through a couple of awful interviews before I wised up and started practicing my answers etc and finally got a job in the area I wanted.

You'll do great I'm sure! Also, if you don't get through interviews, ask for feedback. I found that incredibly usefully because my failed interviews gave me the same sort of feedback, so I knew what to work on. :)

[TheEschaton]

Our school offers public interest stipends (something like 4 grand for the summer), but it's somehow tied to FAFSA, so it's not entirely unpaid this summer. They cover judges anyways.

DA is considered public interest in our school, and, as far as salaries are concerned, the jobs there are more comparable to actual PI work (in NGOs) then say a firm.

One of my interviews was with the federal immigration court here in Boston - I might potentially be working for 6 federal judges. Had that interview this morning, I think it went pretty fucking well.

Oh, and the best thing I can get this summer is a firm job - I interviewed for one on the 4th. Don't know my GPA yet, but the intangibles = check.

We have lots of externships available during the semester actually. You can actually take a semester to work in one. It's pretty cool since so far, I've found much more pleasure in actually "practicing".

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

Oh, and I destroyed those interviews today. I've always been good at them. I'm pretty sure I'll have two offers out of three interviews. The third (for a callback) depends on who else they interviewed....they were interviewing a lot more 2Ls than 1Ls.

-TheE-

[Augie]

Glad to hear the interviews went well. Good luck with the others!

[Ignot]

thats good, becuase since you ASKED for a prayer i prayed you would not get hired. Good luck though

[TheEschaton]

Luckily, your god is dead. ;)

-TheE-

[HarmNone]

Glad to hear you aced the first set of interviews. I hope today's interviews go just as well. Good luck! :)

[Skeeter]

fucking terrorist

[TheEschaton]

The FBI was there yesterday too. I thought it would be utterly ironic to drop off my resume with them, so I did.

They'll probably look at the first thing under my work experience (Peace Corps) and laugh and rip it up, but oh well.

-TheE-

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Why would they rip it up because of the PC?

[Back]

Forgive my delinquent congratulations, E. I give you shit from time to time but as a stand up guy, you stand tall. Not many people can measure up to your contributions to our society.

Rock out with your cock out.

[Ignot]

Rock out with your cock out.


Lets never see this again.

[Gan]

ROFL

Agreed.

[Artha]

Sometimes you just gotta roll out with your pole out. Nothing can stop it.

[TheEschaton]

So, I had an interview with the Manhattan DA. Have an interview with this pretty young ADA, who outright asks me, "Do you think you can handle the NYC lifestyle?"

Almost cracked her across the face. Instead, I coyly answered, "Yeah, I don't think I'll have any problems with that."

At my interview with the Mass AG, the guy interviewing me was a Double Eagle (BC undergrad-BC Law) and went to a Jesuit high school just like me. We were talking about how some BC basketball player got kicked off the team this past week for pot possession. And then we discussed the Brothers Karamazov. And then he saw me standing outside a door waiting for another interview and he's like "Why're you sticking around?" (it was near the Mass AG's interviewing offices). I responded, "Oh, I've got another interview here with Harvard Legal Aid". He looked at the door a second, and he looked back at me and said....

"Oh, cool. You'll be working for us this summer, though, right?"
"Of course, but something needs to happen on your side first, Geoff, before that can happen."
"Don't worry about it, Alok."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

-TheE-
P.S. I normally don't rock out with my cock out at interviews - it makes all my male interviewers jealous and distracts the female ones. And the gay ones.

[Amber]

Awesome! Hope you enjoy your summer.

[TheEschaton]

So.....

Just got offered a firm job for my 1L summer, at a firm in Buffalo. It'd pay me $1500 a week. Woo.

-TheE-

[Keller]

So.....

Just got offered a firm job for my 1L summer, at a firm in Buffalo. It'd pay me $1500 a week. Woo.

-TheE-


And this, PC'ers, is why we don't have good public service attorneys.

I'm not saying I am willing to work for only $45,000 a year -- but now you can even Alok is tempted. =)

[Parkbandit]

There's no reason why you can't take a high powered job paying you good money. It's why we work.. to make money.

If you need to do a few pro bono cases throughout the year to justify your job to yourself.. no one is stopping you. Hell, if you feel that at the end of the year you made too much (lol) then you can give the extra $30k to your favorite charity... or even start up your own foundation.

The notion that you should work for peanuts to 'help' man is a bunch of bs.

[Artha]

The notion that you should work for peanuts to 'help' man is a bunch of bs.
You tell 'em, Ayn Rand.

[Latrinsorm]

It's why we work.. to make moneyThat may be why you work.

[Skeeter]

And this, PC'ers, is why we don't have good public service attorneys.

I'm not saying I am willing to work for only $45,000 a year -- but now you can even Alok is tempted. =)

I'm not asian but I'm pretty sure that 1500/wk = 78k /year

[TheEschaton]

Skeeter, Keller's say that most corporate law firm lawyers make anywhere from 120k to 160k to START depending on the city. And that the most public interest people ever make tends to be around 45k, and thus, there aren't many good lawyers who aren't tempted by the more than 100k difference between the two.

And yes, Keller, I thought of that.

As I see it, this'll be what happens:

1) I'll gain valuable litigation experience.
2) I'll hate the moral equivalencies, and thus know I don't want to do it ever again.
3) I'll make 18 grand this summer to pay for my tuition next semester. This is normally the sticking point, in that most people tend to take the firm job to pay off massive amounts of debt, but luckily, I am not one of those people.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

People are rewarded with excellence by being paid. I see no problem with wanting to be at the top of your field and reaping the benefits of being there.

[Keller]

Alok, I'm definately not trying to disuede you from taking the firm job. I'm just making sure everyone who reads this thread sees that there is definately a gulf between the talent going into public service and the talent going into corporate law. My 10 bucks is that you get your offer for next summer at $2800/week and never look back. I wouldn't.

When you're comfortable and have the capacity (monetary and legal) to make your contributions to the public sector you will. For now you need to look out for number one.

The truth is that you'll gain 10x better training at a firm than you will w/ a gov't agency or a not-for-profit. At this stage of your career the only thing you should be worrying about is who can help you become the best attorney you can be.

[CrystalTears]

Get the experience first, then go pro bono. I personally wouldn't want a lawyer who is free AND inexperienced... unless I was really desperate.

[TheEschaton]

Skeeter, I think the point being made here is that the legal profession is sharply divided between what is called "public interest" and corporate law. The best non-elected legal position in the public interest sector will pay you, at most, 60k a year, even if you are the cream of the crop. Meanwhile, the crappiest of the corporate lawyers will make more than that (and in some cases, IE, the crappiest BC lawyer, much more), and the best become millionaires.

So you can be your best for 60k, or you can be your best for millions. Many people opt for the latter.

-TheE-

[Keller]

People are rewarded with excellence by being paid. I see no problem with wanting to be at the top of your field and reaping the benefits of being there.


I'm not speaking against Alok or anyone else who takes the corporate track (hell, I am!). I just want everyone to notice that Alok, the bleeding heart liberal, is influenced by the salary discrepancy.

Not only does this affect the quality of indigent services, but many gov't agencies and state/federal benches are lacking quality attorneys because the money isn't comparable. If the Mass AG was willing to pay Alok, say, 75k compared to the 135k he'll make in his first year -- it might be a contest.

Oh, the plight of the lawyers, indeed. :)

[TheEschaton]

And I'm not talking about pro bono for myself (no one can really afford to do that outside of the gov't structure), I'm talking about being a public servant, a DA, something like that. Not many people go from corporate law to the DA's office - you earn your experience on the job.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

Skeeter, I think the point being made here is that the legal profession is sharply divided between what is called "public interest" and corporate law. The best non-elected legal position in the public interest sector will pay you, at most, 60k a year, even if you are the cream of the crop. Meanwhile, the crappiest of the corporate lawyers will make more than that (and in some cases, IE, the crappiest BC lawyer, much more), and the best become millionaires.

So you can be your best for 60k, or you can be your best for millions. Many people opt for the latter.

-TheE-

I understand this, my point being <basically> that the most talented lawyers are going to take the money. Perhaps I wasn't clear

[Keller]

But it's interesting, Skeeter, that a lot of those same people come into law school wanting to make a difference in the public sector. It's just that when it comes time for job offers -- there is a gulf between the salaries which in many cases is not overcome by the lawyers tendency towards public interest work.

I think if we made moderate steps to increase those peoples salaries, we'd see a much more talented pool of workers. I'd much rather have some of those talented minds providing regulatory guidance in the Treasury Dept. on how to prevent abusive tax schemes than have them in the law firms coming up with the abusive tax schemes.

[Kranar]

I won't lie... having 60k in student debt has made me desperate to get a job that pays well enough to get me out of debt as soon as possible.

I'm sure many law students feel the same way.

[Back]

I won't lie... having 60k in student debt has made me desperate to get a job that pays well enough to get me out of debt as soon as possible.

I'm sure many law students feel the same way.

Thats just not right. Entering the workforce already in debt?

[Skeeter]

most people with college degrees have to do this Backlash. We can't all go to ITT Tech

[Sean of the Thread]

Thats just not right. Entering the workforce already in debt?

I hope that was sarcasm.

[Kranar]

Hehe, yeah it feels crappy, and I don't really have any plans on entering to workforce anytime soon. I want to go all the way for a PhD before entering the corporate world, doing the summer internship here and there, and the off the wall part time jobs like the Army Reserve's and some crazy job I landed investing in the stock market as a day trader.

The good times, I figure, are now... I'm in no rush to graduate, but when I do I will have serious debt to have to work out.

[Back]

Its part of the consumerist conveyer belt. Make people take loans to get an education to get a good job to pay off their loans and get more loans on cars and houses meanwhile our country is in debt...

[Artha]

Education pays for itself.

[Keller]

Education pays for itself.

As long as you don't major in English Lit or Art.

[Back]

Education pays for itself.

Not so sure I agree. Think about that for a moment. How many people have educations and how many people are debt free?

[Keller]

Not so sure I agree. Think about that for a moment. How many people have educations and how many people are debt free?


??????????????????????

[Kranar]

It's all about cause and effect...

I don't believe a degree causes or results in wealth, well maybe slightly like for getting your foot in the door. Mostly, however, I think education should be done for fun. Sounds weird but if you love something and are passionate about it, then you'll just want to know as much about it as you can which naturally means you'll go to university to study it. It tends to be that underlaying passion that results in success, and if success in your field can be measured in dollars, as it can for business, technology, and many other fields, then the money will simply come.

But honestly, there are plenty of people who go to university thinking that simply getting the degree in a field that has a reputation for making people rich will make them rich too... and a lot of them (although not all) come out very dissapointed and jaded.

[Stretch]

Sorry, debt is about personal responsibility.

People consciously chose to take out thousands of dollars of loans, with the hope that they can leverage their education into a higher paying job. And many of them do just that. Would you rather be making $50K a year while setting aside $5K annually to pay off student loans, or try to scrape by on $25K with no student debt?

There has to be a level of accountability. How many of those people are DEEPLY in debt because they racked up a ton of credit card debt? Take that Socialism crap elsewhere.

[Back]

Sorry, debt is about personal responsibility.

People consciously chose to take out thousands of dollars of loans, with the hope that they can leverage their education into a higher paying job. And many of them do just that. Would you rather be making $50K a year while setting aside $5K annually to pay off student loans, or try to scrape by on $25K with no student debt?

There has to be a level of accountability. How many of those people are DEEPLY in debt because they racked up a ton of credit card debt? Take that Socialism crap elsewhere.

Its all based on “what could/should/might be”. Hey, its the American way. Pay what you don’t have for material things you want.

[Ignot]

There is a big difference between taking out loans to pay for education and taking out loans to buy 10k worth of goods. Education is very important for most people and also very expensive. I can say that I would not be where I am at today without student loans. Shit, especially doctor's and lawyers. They pay a shitload in school. I guess i find it hard to understand where you are coming from if you think that student loans are such a bad thing.

[Back]

There is a big difference between taking out loans to pay for education and taking out loans to buy 10k worth of goods. Education is very important for most people and also very expensive. I can say that I would not be where I am at today without student loans. Shit, especially doctor's and lawyers. They pay a shitload in school. I guess i find it hard to understand where you are coming from if you think that student loans are such a bad thing.

Ach, Buzzkill!

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled/prescribed rationalizations.

[TheEschaton]

So, my career advisor has suggested to me that a civil litigation summer job this summer, ultimately may prove more helpful in getting a criminal prosecution job after graduation, than working for the DA's office this semester. I don't know how this works other than arguing that I have a diverse set of skills.

I think if the Manhattan DA offers me a position, and I reject it for the purpose of taking a firm job this summer, with the hopes of working for them next summer, would instead hurt my chances of possibly working for them in the future.

Anyone have any ideas of this?

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

Be some knucklehead in Buffalo or be Jack McCoy Jr.? Your choice is clear.

[Sean of the Thread]

Not so sure I agree. Think about that for a moment. How many people have educations and how many people are debt free?


Debt free and having your education paid off are not one in the same. I don't even think you're playing devil's advocate anymore.. I really think you're this clueless.

Imo you should have paid more for your education or find a new line of work because you suck at what you do.

[Parkbandit]

You tell 'em, Ayn Rand.


hey Artha.. Walmart called.. and they want you back.

[Parkbandit]

I swear Backlash can turn any topic into America Hating.

Seriously.. get the fuck out.

[Artha]

hey Artha.. Walmart called.. and they want you back.
Feh, I agree with you and love Ayn Rand.

[TheEschaton]

So, today I was offered, and accepted, a job for the summer with the Manhattan DA.

And most importantly, I got the hardest part out of the way, and called up the law firm which offered me a job and told them no. They were incredulous. I think I may be too

-TheE-

[Back]

So, today I was offered, and accepted, a job for the summer with the Manhattan DA.

And most importantly, I got the hardest part out of the way, and called up the law firm which offered me a job and told them no. They were incredulous. I think I may be too

-TheE-

Congrats. Enjoy the NYC nightlife, but not too much... this is a career building move so don’t tarnish it with drunken carousing. The people you network with now will be colleagues in the future.

That may have given you points with the law firm. If it didn’t it gives you points in my book. Which I’m sure means a lot to you.

[Keller]

PM me the firm you turned down. Was it a Boston firm?

Also, I'm hoping to transfer into NYU next year for the JD/LLM joint degree -- maybe we'll cross paths.

And, congrats Alok.

[Hulkein]

So, today I was offered, and accepted, a job for the summer with the Manhattan DA.

And most importantly, I got the hardest part out of the way, and called up the law firm which offered me a job and told them no. They were incredulous. I think I may be too

-TheE-

Nice work. Our ideological differences are showing in our job selections. You take the DA internship, I'm hoping for the corporate internship.

[Stanley Burrell]

Fuck loans.

Applied scientist's life ftmfw.

Free pizza in grand rounds mtmfw, respectively.

[HarmNone]

Congratulations, Alok. I hope you enjoy your position, and that it brings the challenges you are looking for. :)