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Celephais
01-11-2007, 11:50 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/07/mars.life.ap/index.html

Tip of the hat to nasa.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Two NASA space probes that visited Mars 30 years ago may have found alien microbes on the red planet and inadvertently killed them, a scientist is theorizing.

The Viking space probes of 1976-77 were looking for the wrong kind of life, so they didn't recognize it, a geology professor at Washington State University said.
Dirk Schulze-Makuch presented his theory in a paper delivered at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Seattle, Washington.
The paper was released Sunday.

Based on a more expansive view of where life can take root, the paper's findings may prompt NASA to look for a different type of Martian life when its next spacecraft to visit Mars is launched later this year, one of the space agency's top scientists said.

Last month, scientists excitedly reported that new photographs of Mars showed geologic changes that suggest water occasionally flows there -- the most tantalizing sign that Mars is hospitable to life.

In the 1970s, the Viking mission found no signs of life.
But it was looking for Earth-like life, in which salt water is the internal liquid of living cells.
Given the cold dry conditions of Mars, life could have evolved on Mars with the key internal fluid consisting of a mix of water and hydrogen peroxide, said Schulze-Makuch.

That's because a water-hydrogen peroxide mix stays liquid at very low temperatures, or -68 degrees Fahrenheit, and doesn't destroy cells when it freezes. It can suck water vapor out of the air.
The Viking experiments of the 1970s wouldn't have noticed hydrogen peroxide-based life and, in fact, would have killed it by drowning and overheating the microbes, said Schulze-Makuch.

One Viking experiment seeking life on Mars poured water on soil. That would have essentially drowned hydrogen peroxide-based life, he said. And different experiment heated the soil to see if something would happen which would have baked Martian microbes.
"The problem was that they didn't have any clue about the environment on Mars at that time," Schulze-Makuch said. "This kind of adaptation makes sense from a biochemical viewpoint."

Even Earth has something somewhat related. He points to an Earth bug called the bombardier beetle that produces a boiling-hot spray that is 25 percent hydrogen peroxide as a defense weapon.

Schulze-Makuch acknowledges he can't prove that Martian microbes exist, but given the Martian environment and how evolution works, "it makes sense."
In recent years, scientists have found life on Earth in conditions that were once thought too harsh, such as an ultra-acidic river in Spain and ice-covered lakes in Antarctica.

Schulze-Makuch's research coincides with work being completed by a National Research Council panel nicknamed the "weird life" committee. The group worries that scientists may be too Earth-centric when looking for extraterrestrial life.

The problem for scientists is that "you only find what you're looking for," said Penn State University geosciences professor Katherine Freeman, a reviewer of the NRC work.

A new NASA Mars mission called Phoenix is set for launch this summer, and one of the scientists involved said he is eager to test the new theory about life on Mars.

However, scientists must come up with a way to do that using the mission's existing scientific instruments, said NASA astrobiologist and Phoenix co-investigator Chris McKay.

He said the Washington State scientist's paper piqued his interest.
"Logical consistency is nice, but it's not enough anymore," McKay said.
Other experts said the new concept is plausible, but more work is needed before they are convinced.

"I'm open to the possibility that it could be the case," said astrobiologist Mitch Sogin of the Marine Biological Lab in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
A member of the National Research Council committee, Sogin also cautioned against "just-so stories about what is possible."

Apathy
01-11-2007, 11:56 PM
Pft. Can my job be to make things up that could be true?

Stanley Burrell
01-12-2007, 12:04 AM
Pft. Can my job be to make things up that could be true?

Context.


Last month, scientists excitedly reported that new photographs of Mars showed geologic changes that suggest water occasionally flows there -- the most tantalizing sign that Mars is hospitable to life.

Bah. I could have sworn that it was already documented scientific fact that Mars' very-much-existing ice caps would reverse themselves periodically. And that this was scientifically factualized at least since I heard about it as a young Soviet argonaut, um, patrollin' the galaxy with my main mans Urie Gagarin at the helm of intergalactic space disintegrator cannon.

The Ponzzz
01-12-2007, 12:09 AM
Sure, you can be a politician or a scientist, just pick.

Celephais
01-12-2007, 12:09 AM
That beetle they mention is freaking awesome:
http://www.harrypottermagic.org/Evolution%20of%20Creationist/MOGC%2001.htm (wicked creationist site, ridiculous, but had neat info on the beetle, which clearly evolved from the beetles in Starship Troopers)


...the bombardier (beetle) does appear to be unique in the animal kingdom. Its defense system is extraordinarily intricate, a cross between tear gas and a tommy gun. When the beetle senses danger, it internally mixes enzymes contained in one body chamber with concentrated solutions of some rather harmless compounds, hydrogen peroxide and hydroquinones, confined to a second chamber. This generates a noxious spray of http://www.harrypottermagic.org/Evolution%20of%20Creationist/bombardier.jpgcaustic benzoquinones, which explodes from its body at a boiling 212° F. What is more, the fluid is pumped through twin rear nozzles, which can be rotated, like a B-17's gun turret, to hit a hungry ant or frog with bull's eye accuracy.

Back
01-12-2007, 12:22 AM
I just bought some hydrogen peroxide. Its not really toxic stuff.

Stanley Burrell
01-12-2007, 12:36 AM
LoLz @ http://www.harrypottermagic.org/Evolution%20of%20Creationist/MOGC%2001.htm

My next publication is *so* going to be thesis paper on innate proton volatility being the cause of an inarguable anti-evolution clause. Funded by the Pat Robertson foundation.

Seriously though, my head asplode.

Celephais
01-12-2007, 12:38 AM
I just bought some hydrogen peroxide. Its not really toxic stuff.

When I was in high school we used to make Hydrogen Peroxide temporary tattoo's in science class (not the kind you put on cuts, higher concentration)... basically we burned our skin.

And I don't see anywhere where it says it's toxic... (although in high enough concentrations I would say it's toxic in the sense that it's caustic). The beetle doesn't shoot H2O2, it shoots benzoquinones... which I know nothing about (other than that it must glow blue and starfleet thinks it's harmless)

Celephais
01-12-2007, 12:40 AM
LoLz @ http://www.harrypottermagic.org/Evolution%20of%20Creationist/MOGC%2001.htm

My next publication is *so* going to be thesis paper on innate proton volatility being the cause of an inarguable anti-evolution clause. Funded by the Pat Robertson foundation.

Seriously though, my head asplode.

Seriously, I got angrier and angrier as I read more (because I liked reading about the animals) but his "you can't evolve when you're dead" rhetoric pissed me off... NO SHit you asshole, that's why things evolved, so THEY WOULDN'T die.

Artha
01-12-2007, 01:20 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

These are cool animals.

Hulkein
01-12-2007, 01:59 AM
I would love it if we killed the last life on Mars.

Back
01-12-2007, 02:00 AM
I saw something on YouTube that says we blew that shit up then moved here??

Gan
01-12-2007, 05:37 AM
Next thing we'll hear is that Global Warming was the downfall of Mars and that we moved to Earth to continue our parasitic capitalist existence.

Celephais
01-12-2007, 07:21 AM
http://www.pnas.org/content/vol96/issue17/images/medium/pq1792714001.gif
another article w/ images http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/17/9705

Stanley Burrell
01-12-2007, 11:53 AM
I would love it if we killed the last life on Mars.

That would be badass.

I don't know how special we would have to be in order to commit Martiacide with one space probe, though. That chick from Total Recall could hold her own, one would imagine.

Sean of the Thread
01-12-2007, 12:08 PM
NASA set them up the bomb?

Tea & Strumpets
01-12-2007, 12:35 PM
I don't know if anyone ever watched the old Mr. Show on HBO, but this discussion reminds me of the show where they blew up the moon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH1VW5K-UuU

Gan
01-12-2007, 01:02 PM
I'm telling you, it was the old world order and global warming that killed Mars, then they ejected to earth and became the new world order...

Illuminati represent!

Sean of the Thread
01-12-2007, 01:07 PM
Tap...Tap.. Is this lamp on?

Gan
01-12-2007, 01:22 PM
Seriously! The lamp said so!

ElanthianSiren
01-12-2007, 01:42 PM
:rofl:


That beetle is awesome. Stan how's that foundation paying you? We might have to abandon all sanity to reach susbsistance levels in the graduate future. :P