WTF am I doing wrong.

[Shari]

Someone explain this:

A hunter troll swings a jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +232 vs DS: +104 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +98 = +258
... and hits for 54 points of damage!
Hard blow to your ear!
Deep gash and a terrible headache!
You are stunned for 10 rounds!

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 156 56
Armor Use..........................| 155 55
Combat Maneuvers...................| 140 40
Edged Weapons......................| 156 56
Ambush.............................| 156 56
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 35 7
Physical Fitness...................| 156 56
Dodging............................| 156 56
Harness Power......................| 10 2
Disarming Traps....................| 40 8
Picking Locks......................| 0 0
Stalking and Hiding................| 156 56
Perception.........................| 156 56
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 45 9
Pickpocketing......................| 155 55

I'm level 28. I'm unconverting some pickpocketing and swimming skills for lockpicking so that is irrelevant. I'm wearing augmented chain.

Strength (STR): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Constitution (CON): 78 (14) ... 77 (13)
Dexterity (DEX): 93 (31) ... 93 (31)
Agility (AGI): 94 (27) ... 94 (27)
Discipline (DIS): 85 (12) ... 85 (12)
Aura (AUR): 78 (19) ... 78 (19)
Logic (LOG): 69 (9) ... 69 (9)
Intuition (INT): 64 (7) ... 64 (7)
Wisdom (WIS): 64 (7) ... 64 (7)
Influence (INF): 42 (-4) ... 42 (-4)

Sylvankind rogue.

WTF AM I DOING WRONG? Is it because of the two weapon combat? I'm getting really sick of having my ass handed to me when I would figure with these skills in augmented chain *I* would be the one kicking ass.


Help me.

[GuildRat]

Low DS, out in the open, and a jeddart axe...all this added up makes for a bad day for a rogue.

Not having a shield isn't really helping much, but everything looks fine as far as training a TWC rogue.

Redux isn't kicking in yet either, so you're gonna get pounded.

[Stanley Burrell]

WTF am I doing wrong

For starters, getting JEDDART-AXED IN THE CEREBELLUM!!1111111onelolzmageddon.

.

Don't hurt me, plz :blush:

P.S. Are you wearing a mithril greathelm of anti-headstabbage? Those work teh bombilly in certain scenarios.

[Shari]

So as far as two weapon combat goes...its really dangerous.


And she can't wear HEAD ARMOR...it will mess up her hair! <gasp>

[The Ponzzz]

Well, here is the kicker. Chain armor against poles are the worst combo. personally I am a big fan of chain shirt, and saw that I was getting hit HARDER in chain shirt than brig for most weapons.

Anyways. Hunter trolls are a stance dance game. Either you leg em quickly or stun them hard before they swing. No chance you can get some spells? But that really won't matter due to those trolls getting a 350 AS at times.

[Shari]

Yeah, that was zero spells. I try not to depend on them with this char because I HATE asking for them. So I don't have her mapped out wrong, it is just the nature of the fighting style I've chosen.

[GuildRat]

Yeah, that was zero spells. I try not to depend on them with this char because I HATE asking for them. So I don't have her mapped out wrong, it is just the nature of the fighting style I've chosen.


YES.

[Shari]

GuildRat, you are never allowed to change your avatar.

Ever.

[Back]

WTF am I doing wrong.

Everyone dies from crits. Shit happens.

[GuildRat]

GuildRat, you are never allowed to change your avatar.

Ever.


I got this cool assed devil cat I've been thinking about changing it to tho!!

[Shari]

Well....

If I approve it I guess you could change it.

[AestheticDeath]

Try huntin something that doesnt hurt so bad.. cyclops in sol or something. Or, when I have to hunt a younger square without spells, I do the safe route and under hunt a few levels. Just saves time and effort. Gotta kill a few more, but its alot easier and faster. You could probably still fry off 10-12 krolvin warfarers, though i hate the ewave..

And staying in hiding helps not get hit. ;p

[Back]

Blame the GMs.

[Sean of the Thread]

Warfies for the win. Easy.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Get more dodge, 1x dodge with TWC is kind of suicide. Bantam Rocks your
socks hunting, so I'd say he's got a good template.

Bantam (at level 20), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 144 44
Armor Use..........................| 96 22
Combat Maneuvers...................| 144 44
Brawling...........................| 144 44
Ambush.............................| 144 44
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 96 22
Dodging............................| 144 44
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Stalking and Hiding................| 144 44
Perception.........................| 144 44
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Pickpocketing......................| 144 44

[GuildRat]

Get more dodge, 1x dodge with TWC is kind of suicide. Bantam Rocks your
socks hunting, so I'd say he's got a good template.

Dude...she's doubled in dodge at 56 ranks and 28 trains....lay off the crack!!!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

oh my bad, no idea then. I still rock socks. Must be because I'm a man baby!

[GuildRat]

YEA BABY!! Nice Powers reference dude!!

[Gan]

I'd say its a combination of low DS offered from TWC style training and the need for crit padding to lessen the stuns you're bound to receive when you are hit while being in the open.

You're definately on track with armor, dodge, CM, and physical fitness. Without the added benefit of padding to keep the stun time/crit factor down to a minimum you're going to have to rely on stance dance and more strategy if you're going to keep hunting hunter trolls.

But all of that has been said ^^^ so my words merely are in agreement with whats been said before.

[DCSL]

This is what I did with Kuaike, who has pretty much the same training plan 'cept 1x in Dodge as a ranger instead of 2x and same hunting style. Hide, wait until the hunter troll makes a move, am l leg, hide, am head. It can be frustrating but it worked?

[Landrion]

I dont see anything really wrong with your build. As others have said, you happen to have picked a critter with a real badass weapon and AS for your DS and armor. Hunting somewhere else would certainly be one way to go.

My other thought was, why is this critter not swept? It was some time ago that I hunted them as a ranger. I recall killer weed, wait for the pull (so it didnt run), hide (or camo) and headshot. If I missed the ambush, the troll would stand up instead of swinging (or be stunned from the weed), Id stance back and repeat.

[Gan]

I remember helping a younger rogue last week who was frustrated about not being able to just walk in and start killing with every swing.

It seems there's this misconception that a rogue is a viable profession to hunt with that method (warrior style). While a rogue is a square per-say, it does not fare well standing in the open going toe to toe with a combatant, especially nowadays with all the changes that have taken place.

I very much recall finding a solo critter, having to attempt to leg it before killing, or having to stand in full defense waiting for it to swing (change stance) and then sweep/hide/ambush it. Or using a myriad of other tactics in order to complete the kill successfully, especially unharmed.

Rogues are not meant to be warriors, they do not get the ranks to sink into combat skills that will allow them to be quick, agile, and yet also a tank that can shrug off any blow (although wearing plate armor helps). So justifiably their hunting style can not be one of walking into a room and engaging in open melee with single or multiple opponents without consequences (unless you're wearing uber 10x crit padded armor, swinging an uber 10x crit-weighted weapon(s), wearing every spell known to man, in addition to wearing multiple 10x DB items). This is especially more true with unconventional or exotic builds that get away from the basic DS of 2x blade and 2x shield, or having to hunt in areas that are magically limited to what spells you can wear successfully.

If my rogue will ever go back from archery to swinging an edged weapon, it will be daggers because I just dont like him being exposed to recriprocating attacks while he's in the open waiting for his hard RT to diminish. The days of walking in and just waylaying something without a second thought are long gone in the more advanced levels of hunting.

[Shari]

Just to let ya'll know...I WAS in hiding, ambushed another troll in the room and that one walked in during my RT and WHAM. I think part of my problem is I'm weilding a shortsword and a sabre so my RT is 6 sec. Guess I gotta find myself a dagger.

[Back]

Just to let ya'll know...I WAS in hiding, ambushed another troll in the room and that one walked in during my RT and WHAM. I think part of my problem is I'm weilding a shortsword and a sabre so my RT is 6 sec. Guess I gotta find myself a dagger.

Get a main guache. There are some great ones out there on the market.

[Gan]

Just to let ya'll know...I WAS in hiding, ambushed another troll in the room and that one walked in during my RT and WHAM. I think part of my problem is I'm weilding a shortsword and a sabre so my RT is 6 sec. Guess I gotta find myself a dagger.

If you see Gibrefucal (sp) in game, visit with him or do a psinet skills peek at his training. He's successfully using daggers hunting OTF at cap.

So yea, daggers for minimal exposure during hard rt will help you recover while being exposed to other opponents walking in swinging or casting.

Or archery and shoot arrows from hiding. ;)

[Jolena]

I remember helping a younger rogue last week who was frustrated about not being able to just walk in and start killing with every swing.

It seems there's this misconception that a rogue is a viable profession to hunt with that method (warrior style). While a rogue is a square per-say, it does not fare well standing in the open going toe to toe with a combatant, especially nowadays with all the changes that have taken place.

I very much recall finding a solo critter, having to attempt to leg it before killing, or having to stand in full defense waiting for it to swing (change stance) and then sweep/hide/ambush it. Or using a myriad of other tactics in order to complete the kill successfully, especially unharmed.

Rogues are not meant to be warriors, they do not get the ranks to sink into combat skills that will allow them to be quick, agile, and yet also a tank that can shrug off any blow (although wearing plate armor helps). So justifiably their hunting style can not be one of walking into a room and engaging in open melee with single or multiple opponents without consequences (unless you're wearing uber 10x crit padded armor, swinging an uber 10x crit-weighted weapon(s), wearing every spell known to man, in addition to wearing multiple 10x DB items). This is especially more true with unconventional or exotic builds that get away from the basic DS of 2x blade and 2x shield, or having to hunt in areas that are magically limited to what spells you can wear successfully.

If my rogue will ever go back from archery to swinging an edged weapon, it will be daggers because I just dont like him being exposed to recriprocating attacks while he's in the open waiting for his hard RT to diminish. The days of walking in and just waylaying something without a second thought are long gone in the more advanced levels of hunting.


I have to disagree with the concept that rogues can't be tanks as well (and without the uber 10x items). My rogue at 68, is a purely combat character and she's able to stand toe to toe with a wide variety of creatures, openly swinging and not stance dancing. However, that being said, it wasn't until the last 10-15 trains that this happened for me. Up until then when hunting solo, I had to either hide and time my swings, or I had to stance dance in order to do well. Redux is obviously a major factor to being able to take the hits, and unfortunately, Shari, you will not see much results from that until your rogue is much higher in levels. Also, hopefully your rogue is in some type of society, because those signs/symbols help a great deal.

Everything else looks great on your training, IMO, but as a TWC rogue, you will need to rely upon hiding and swinging quickly because you don't have the DS provided by a shield. I would suggest when you have some spare points, tossing some of it into MIU so that you can keep a haste imbed upon you and swing even faster.

Just to give you an idea:

Jolena at 68 levels:
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 169 69
Combat Maneuvers...................| 238 140
Edged Weapons......................| 240 140
Ambush.............................| 240 140
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 202 102
Dodging............................| 238 140
Arcane Symbols.....................| 140 40
Magic Item Use.....................| 140 40
Harness Power......................| 10 2
Stalking and Hiding................| 238 140
Perception.........................| 240 140
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 168 69

Jolena uses a 7x weapon, 4x shield, and +32 breastplate without padding.

[Gan]

I have to disagree with the concept that rogues can't be tanks as well (and without the uber 10x items). My rogue at 68, is a purely combat character and she's able to stand toe to toe with a wide variety of creatures, openly swinging and not stance dancing. However, that being said, it wasn't until the last 10-15 trains that this happened for me.

Well, having a rogue at 85 trainings, I damn sure dont hunt like I used to when I was younger and when the opponents were not as skillful.

However, if you were to take that approach where I hunt now (OTF, Ithzir and aquaducts) you would be owned so fast your head would spin.

So with the advent of yearly fixskills, Shari can adjust however she wants. I'm just a firm believer that a rogue is not a tank, and as soon as armor starts to effect hiding more, they definately wont be considered one, IMO.

[Jolena]

I agree that armor changes (as far as hiding goes) will nerf my Jo Jo quite a bit, and you are correct, were I to hunt in OTF, I would find myself in different situations than I do now. But part of hunting your character's profession well, IMO, is choosing where to hunt based on your skills. I don't tend to go to areas that I know that I will not do well due to my training, and so I do encourage people to consider that when choosing where to hunt with their characters as well. Some places are just more conducive to certain training styles, than others. :shrug: I still believe a rogue can be a tank if they wish to, for now. Come hiding/armor changes, I will probably change that stance.

[GuildRat]

I tank fairly well in the barrier but I have to agree with Ganalon on this. If it weren't for an assload of spells and being in plate...I'd die more than I'd live in the barrier. TWC rogues and THW rogues are about the hardest build to pass off when you're relatively young (95-100+) in the barrier. Still, tanking is fun if you can get away with it. :grin:

[Ignot]

Just to let ya'll know...I WAS in hiding, ambushed another troll in the room and that one walked in during my RT and WHAM. I think part of my problem is I'm weilding a shortsword and a sabre so my RT is 6 sec. Guess I gotta find myself a dagger.

this is going to happen. Personally i feel that if your TWC your going to die what feels like alot. you sacrifce defense for offense. It will take some getting used to. I seem to remember the early years being more difficult then my later years.

I say stick with it and learn what critters murder you and which ones are easier targets.

Im a big fan of flares too, especially on your off hand dagger.