Major spell changes in GS4

[Revalos]

635 is being moved to 620.

620 is being combined with 610 and will be stance based.

There are no current plans for our 35th level spot.

No other movement will occur at this time (I did like the suggestion of moving 625 down to 620 and moving 635 to 625 but Cyr didn't)

At least its a start in the right direction.

[Taernath]

Excellent...

/Mr. Burns voice

[Parkbandit]

Rangers will do very very well under GS4 as it's currently defined.

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Rangers will do very very well under GS4 as it's currently defined.

Is that an informed opinion, or is it just a guess from someone that knows nothing about rangers? Because I'm a ranger, and it sure doesn't look good to me.

It looks like rangers will excel at nothing, and be average at everything else. Or you could choose to be mediocre at nearly everything, and excel at one thing. Sure sounds like a blast to me!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Rangers will do very very well under GS4 as it's currently defined.

Is that an informed opinion, or is it just a guess from someone that knows nothing about rangers? Because I'm a ranger, and it sure doesn't look good to me.

It looks like rangers will excel at nothing, and be average at everything else. Or you could choose to be mediocre at nearly everything, and excel at one thing. Sure sounds like a blast to me!

Actually.. it's an informed opinion. My ranger who is 30 currently will be more powerful under GS4 than he is currently. He will know more spells and have more skills than he does currently.

Actually.. it's an informed opinion. My ranger who is 30 currently will be more powerful under GS4 than he is currently. He will know more spells and have more skills than he does currently.


Ah, at level 30 I can see how things might appear to be looking good in comparison to your current ranger.

[Dinara]

Actually untill we test I dont know how anyone can say we are going to do badly or do well.

I am very optimistic. Tp's will still be extremely tight. But I have two plans now that will make a ranged archer (which mine is at level 51) have more skills than she currently has. She will be fully singled in CM so She will get to try out some of these nifty manuevers. She will have MIU and Spell reading which she currently doesnt have. She will be fully doubled in perception which she currently isnt. The only weakness I see so far is she will not be in chain armor which she currently is and there are not enough tp's to double in ambushing. But I am still tweaking and after testing I will see what i would rather have.

Do I like everything that is coming out - no! But it is noticeable that they are listening and I feel if something is way off we can get it changed.

Dinara

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
Ah, at level 30 I can see how things might appear to be looking good in comparison to your current ranger.

If your complaint is with the new experience requirements.. then perhaps you should focus on that as it's not a professional only issue. Given that we will be going through new initial roll numbers, new training experience requirements, level compression, etc.. (just like every other profession is doing), Rangers will fare better than most professions.

My ranger will be stronger and have better protection than prior to the changes. He will have more skills and more spells than he currently has.

On the other hand, my rogue will be weaker and less diverse.

Rangers will fare better than most professions.


Everyone's welcome to an opinion.




My ranger will be stronger and have better protection than prior to the changes. He will have more skills and more spells than he currently has.


I'm not sure if your ranger is just horrendously trained now, or if you think there is an improvement to training costs? Are you an archer? That's the only type of ranger who's costs have possibly improved.

Just to show you the other side of the coin, my ranger will have FAR less skills, be in much lighter armor, have far less combat skills, have far less utility skills, and know less spells.

Rogues on the other hand are going to have it easy with all of their added Combat Maneuvers AS WELL as keeping all of their guild tricks. Ah, to be a rogue.

The last paragraph is to point out the "grass is always greener" effect.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets


Rangers will fare better than most professions.


Everyone's welcome to an opinion.




My ranger will be stronger and have better protection than prior to the changes. He will have more skills and more spells than he currently has.


I'm not sure if your ranger is just horrendously trained now, or if you think there is an improvement to training costs? Are you an archer? That's the only type of ranger who's costs have possibly improved.

Just to show you the other side of the coin, my ranger will have FAR less skills, be in much lighter armor, have far less combat skills, have far less utility skills, and know less spells.

Rogues on the other hand are going to have it easy with all of their added Combat Maneuvers AS WELL as keeping all of their guild tricks. Ah, to be a rogue.

The last paragraph is to point out the "grass is always greener" effect.

If your new 'archer' will know less spells than he currently does.. then you've done something completely wrong. Currently, spells cost what.. 36 mental points and can only train once per training? In GS4, they cost what.. 18 or 16 and you can train twice in spells? Tell me how you could POSSIBLY know less spells when they allow you to train twice as much at almost half the cost? Sorry, I don't have access to play.net site currently.. I'll double check these when I get home.

What combat skills does your ranger have now that you cannot get in GS4? I can't think of one... where in GS4, you will be able to train in actual combat maneuvers.

I too can make a useless character in GS4.. but that's not the point.. is it?

PS - Most of the rogue's actual combat related guild skills will be taken out of the guild and put into the Combat Maneuvers. Sure I can toss my dagger in the air and catch it in front of a critter.. but I doubt it will inflict much damage or give me any combat type advantage.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets

Everyone's welcome to an opinion.

I'm not sure if your ranger is just horrendously trained now, or if you think there is an improvement to training costs? Are you an archer? That's the only type of ranger who's costs have possibly improved.

Just to show you the other side of the coin, my ranger will have FAR less skills, be in much lighter armor, have far less combat skills, have far less utility skills, and know less spells.



Unfortunately... the numbers don't agree with your overly sensitive move from GS3 to GS4. It's obvious that you either haven't read up on the changes or are fixated on the loss of levels.

This isn't a conversation about loss of levels.

There isn't a single weapon class that will cost more to train in than in GS3. In matching skills from GS3 to GS4... rangers will have lower training costs in 13 skills, no change in 10 skills and a SLIGHT increase in 3 skills (Disarming +1MTP, picking +1 PTP and ambush -1 PTP and +2 MTP).

Certainly, now you will have to train in mana and harness... but the overall costs for that are more than compensated in the dramatic decrease in spell costs.

And GS4 will see a variety of Rangers now possible. Significant training point savings with pole arms, 2 handed, ranged and thrown. Ability to train in actual combat maneuvers. Ability to train in more than 1 spell per training.

Obviously, your original hypothesis is not backed up with statistical facts.

[Dinara]

I would be interested in your training too Tea?

Rangers who want to be strong in magic can now double in spells but their battle skills will be lessoned. More physical rangers have alot more options than before but will still be able to get in spells and most likely more than they had before with the tp's going down on spells.

I do not like the fact that I can only double in hiding. I do not like that It will be extremely hard to hide in hauberk. But until testing comes I will not know how that effects me because maybe with the with the dodge and new manuevers I wont need to hide as much or maybe double hiding is enough and triple is for overtraining. Maybe with the critters being compressed I will have so many choices to hunt it wont matter that i am wearing brig instead of hauberk.

Anyway thats my informed opinion. And if you think that rogues are happier go over to their board they are extremely upset about sharing stuff with other professions and the fact that they are not going to be able to wear their plate armors and hide.

Dinara

[Dinara]

On one small note - It will cost more tp's to train a good archer than it will to train an edged user. Use Tsoran's gsiv trainer and see.

I'd consider a well trained ranger to be 2x weapon and hiding, preferably 2x but at least 1.5 ambush, 1.5 dodge, 1.5 CM, 1.5 armor, 1x shield.

I'm a semi, I'm not looking to 2x CM, Armor and Shield, like a square would. I don't think that looking to 1.5x the skills is asking for a lot. I'm willing to give a little on the armor training, but even so the above training is impossible.

You also have to stay at least 1x spells, 1x harness power, and then try to fit in the fun utility skills like magic item use, mana share, scroll reading...and whatever lore skills rangers will need. Let's not forget to add in a bunch of physical training so that I"ll actually be able to USE those new CM tricks (fatigue points will be determined by PT).

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
I'd consider a well trained ranger to be 2x weapon and hiding, preferably 2x but at least 1.5 ambush, 1.5 dodge, 1.5 CM, 1.5 armor, 1x shield.

I'm a semi, I'm not looking to 2x CM, Armor and Shield, like a square would. I don't think that looking to 1.5x the skills is asking for a lot. I'm willing to give a little on the armor training, but even so the above training is impossible.

You also have to stay at least 1x spells, 1x harness power, and then try to fit in the fun utility skills like magic item use, mana share, scroll reading...and whatever lore skills rangers will need. Let's not forget to add in a bunch of physical training so that I"ll actually be able to USE those new CM tricks (fatigue points will be determined by PT).

Any ranger you can come up with in GS3.. you can come up with in GS4. And then some.

Rangers will be better off in GS4 from a training point standpoint. There is no evidence I have seen to think otherwise.

[Dinara]

My current training for gsIV plan is as follows

2x ranged
2x hiding
1x ambush
1x armor
1x cm
2x perception
1x brawling
1x dodge
1x harness power
15 ranks of MIU, Scroll reading, Survival
20 ranks of climbing and swimming
I will miss 2 spells

After testing i will increase ambushing or armor as needed reducing the extras because right now i have no training in scroll and miu.

You do realize right that your AS is based on perception and Ambush?

I have no training in Shield and dont expect to get any in GSIV either.

Dinara

[i]Originally posted by Parkbandit

Any ranger you can come up with in GS3.. you can come up with in GS4. And then some.

Rangers will be better off in GS4 from a training point standpoint. There is no evidence I have seen to think otherwise.

There's no way you could duplicate my GS3 training in GS4. I think it's going to be funny to see what the "auto-reallocate" program does with my training. I believe it's supposed to convert your GS3 skills to the GS4 equivalent...or something.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
Originally posted by Parkbandit

Any ranger you can come up with in GS3.. you can come up with in GS4. And then some.

Rangers will be better off in GS4 from a training point standpoint. There is no evidence I have seen to think otherwise.

There's no way you could duplicate my GS3 training in GS4. I think it's going to be funny to see what the "auto-reallocate" program does with my training. I believe it's supposed to convert your GS3 skills to the GS4 equivalent...or something. [/quote]

Then you haven't reallocated then. I can't help you if you initially had some 680 roll and now have maxed out all your stats.

I too look forward to seeing how the new converter from GS3 to GS4 works out. I'm sure I'll still have to reallocate most of my characters the old fashioned way.

[Edited on 7-1-2003 by Parkbandit]

[Gsgeek]

I think you'll see that it's not so much the skills or skill costs per se in GS4, but more the neutering of the ranger spells that have occured the last year plus.


JustMe

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Gsgeek
I think you'll see that it's not so much the skills or skill costs per se in GS4, but more the neutering of the ranger spells that have occured the last year plus.


JustMe

That is a topic for another thread then I would imagine. But when someone comes here claiming that GS4 will be horrid for rangers.. sorry, I'm going to call then on that Bullshit.

Change scares alot of people into believing things that just aren't true.

[Gsgeek]

Not sure why you are quoting me when you say someone was claiming GS4 will be horrid for rangers. I didn't say that at all. And yes I did read the above posts including T&S's, who seems to be the one most concerned in this thread.

I feel GS4 will be a fun and interesting change of pace for all professions. It will hopefully livein up the game some for those it has become a bit stale for. No profession should be "unplayable".

The only concern I had for rangers, my main characters profession who I play in GS, was the nerfing of a lot of our spells the last year or 2. That is a fact. Any ranger with a decent amount of experience knows this. Now whether it is for the good of the game or not, that can be a matter of opinion. Many rangers feel otherwise. It seems anytime we get an "improvement" to our spells, we also seem to get a downtweak of a greater magnitude. Anyway....

As for another thread for this, maybe, maybe not. After all, the topic name is Major Spell Changes for GS4, not skill changes or viability.

Justme