Groom dies on wedding day

[Kefka]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061126/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting_46


NEW YORK - Sean Bell and his fiancee had already shared a high school romance, then two children. In the early hours of what was to be their wedding day, the reception hall lay waiting, covered in satin and adorned with balloons. But the ceremony never occurred Saturday. Police shot 50 rounds at the groom's car as he drove away from his bachelor party, killing the 23-year-old hours before he was to walk down the aisle.

The hail of gunfire at a car full of unarmed men drew an outcry from family members and community leaders. Two passengers, who had been celebrating with the groom at a strip club, were also injured; one was struck by at least 11 bullets.

The officers' shots struck the men's car 21 times after it rammed into an undercover officer and hit an unmarked NYPD minivan, police said. Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said it was too early to say whether the shooting was justified.


Sounds like another Diallo moment in this great city. 1 cop alone fired 31 times, reloading a clip in the process...

[Skirmisher]

It may be and may not be.

We'll have a better idea of what happened soon enough.

[GuildRat]

Heaven forbid police officers retaliate at someone ramming their vehicles.

[Solkern]

he hit my car! OPEN FIRE MEN!

[CrystalTears]

Heaven forbid police officers retaliate at someone ramming their vehicles.
WTF. With 31 shots at a car with unarmed people in it? We don't even know if it was intentional or just in a drunken stupor. Either way, it doesn't deserve to get killed for. Am I allowed to open fire at someone who slams into my car?

Fuck the police. Fuck fuck, fuck the police.

[GuildRat]

WTF. With 31 shots at a car with unarmed people in it? We don't even know if it was intentional or just in a drunken stupor. Either way, it doesn't deserve to get killed for. Am I allowed to open fire at someone who slams into my car?

Fuck the police. Fuck fuck, fuck the police.

I'm sure the police knew they were unarmed. Say fuck fuck the po-po when you're getting ass-raped in an alley.

[CrystalTears]

And if they knew they were unarmed, then they are fuckheads for opening fire on the car who touched their precious vehicles.

I'm sorry, that was 21 rounds that hit the car, 50 rounds shot in total. Yeah. I'm sure that was justified. /sarcasm.

[Artha]

This thread went from 0 to retarded in almost record time.

[thornhappy]

I'm voting drunken stupor. They drove forward, hitting it once.. then backed into a gate and hit it again. I'm guessing he was wasted and trying to angle his way out of the parking spot.

As for the guy who fled the scene... fuck, I'd have run too.

However.. Of course the media is going to try to villainize the cops, in this case. It makes for a better story.

The whole thing sucks.

[GuildRat]

CT...you're a moron. The a-holes crashed into not ONE...but TWO cop vehicles. If you think that's a cooincidence, then you're the dullest knife in the drawer.

Heaven forbid the bastards were drunk and trying to get out of a ticket, or jail time any way that was handy at the time. Which would include trying to harm your neighborhood police officer.

[GuildRat]

This thread went from 0 to retarded in almost record time.


Yes it did.

[CrystalTears]

UNMARKED vehicles. If they were drunk, omg, THEY DIDN'T KNOW! Even if they did know, you really think they deserved to die? You sir, are the moron.

I have no problem with jail time, tickets, bonds... but not death, fuckhead.

[GuildRat]

OOO...so drunk and trying to kill someone is an excuse now?

[Kefka]

Heaven forbid police officers retaliate at someone ramming their vehicles.

I guess you missed the undercover officers (yes that means plain clothes) and unmarked van (no sirens or lights on this one) in the article. At 4 a.m., a dude approaches my car while another vehicle attempts to block me, he's going under my tires.

[Hulkein]

They fired because they heard they had a firearm from an undercover cop, or so I overheard.

[DeV]

Wow. Okay. First of all the police officer that was allegedly rammed was undercover. Secondly, the police vehicle that was allegedly hit in the process was also unmarked.

So, no, the men inside the vehicle would not have knowledge they were officers unless the undercover officer decided to make it known at the time this happened.

In other news, I'm not making any judgement calls until all the facts are brought to light.

[Back]

CT...you're a moron. The a-holes crashed into not ONE...but TWO cop vehicles. If you think that's a cooincidence, then you're the dullest knife in the drawer.

Heaven forbid the bastards were drunk and trying to get out of a ticket, or jail time any way that was handy at the time. Which would include trying to harm your neighborhood police officer.

I only read what the OP posted, but how do you come to the conclusion these guys were out to get the cops?

[GuildRat]

I guess you missed the undercover officers (yes that means plain clothes) and unmarked van (no sirens or lights on this one) in the article. At 4 a.m., a dude approaches my car while another vehicle attempts to block me, he's going under my tires.


Present your card and enter the moron club.

[Stanley Burrell]

Sounds like another Diallo moment in this great city. 1 cop alone fired 31 times, reloading a clip in the process...

He was the white guy.

The incident was attributed to "contagious fire."

My emotions are mixed on this incident, being 9 shots over par vs. Diallo, yet at the same time, a car was used as a weapon, which it most certainly is. Being that an undercover was struck (mildly) this obviously gathered a bit of emotion. My issue is that if the officers could identify associate X that environmental factors could not have been so skewed as to not have clearly perceived a handgun.

I am sure an officer thought he saw a gun; which is probably why he was plain clothed in Jamaica and not Jamaica Estates; police situations in the former are guaranteed to be a mindfuck. I would feel safer getting off on 125th and break dancing on the blood grounds at 1:00 AM than driving through Jamaica or QB. Bad news.

They obviously had veterans doing operations, which did shit for the outcome. I dunno.

I am 110% convinced that since there are a plethora of fuckin' free radicals thrown into the equation, such will be waaay more than enough to excuse any action by police.

And as much of a shithead Bloomberg can be, I am "thankful" this incident didn't occur under Giuliani, as it would be collecting dust in the bookkeeping department already.

They should have run a license plate scanner and flashed sirens otherwise due to the shadiness of the entire ordeal. I don't think it was handled properly. At all. ...Although I am more than just a bit hesitant to immediately place this into Diallo categorization due to the fact that the officers were, in fact, attacked (no matter how you hash it out.)

The situation sucks and that club should have been bulldozed for a magnet school.

[GuildRat]

I only read what the OP posted, but how do you come to the conclusion these guys were out to get the cops?


Yes, the normal citizen uses two vehicles to block you in as you try to leave a club.

Duh?

[DeV]

Heaven forbid the bastards were drunk and trying to get out of a ticket, or jail time any way that was handy at the time. Heaven forbid we really don't know what if ANYthing warranted the multitude of rounds being fired at the men and the fact that NONE were fired back.

Yeah.

[Atlanteax]

Sheesh, details were left out...


Police thought one of the men in the car might have had a gun, but investigators found no weapons. It was unclear what prompted police to open fire, Kelly said.

He said the incident stemmed from an undercover operation inside the strip club in Queens. Seven officers in plain clothes were investigating the Kalua Cabaret; five of them were involved in the shooting.

According to Kelly, the groom was involved in a verbal dispute outside the club after 4 a.m. One of his friends made a reference to a gun.

An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, they drove forward — striking him and a nearby undercover police vehicle.

The officer who had followed the group on foot was apparently the first to open fire, Kelly said. That officer had served on the force for five years. One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly said.

It was the first time any of the officers, all of whom carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, he said.

At some point, Bell backed his car up onto the sidewalk, hitting a building gate. He then drove forward, striking the police vehicle a second time, Kelly said.

Doesn't sound like trigger-happy police to me (see 1st time involved in a shooting), who were all operating under the impression of "armed and dangerous".

Let's see... black males leaving a strip club at 4am (why else would Rev Sharpton get upset?) ... undercover police trying to shut it down with one more violation, as strip club has a reputation of being a narcotics and prostition center... as well as weapons complaints.

High crime (possibly ghetto) area... high probability of illegal activities... mentioning guns (like yelling bomb in an airport) ... hits an undercover police officer and unmarked police car...

(Sarcasm) Nope, this was a completely unjustified shooting. The guy was just simply on his way to the Church to get married! (end sarcasm).

[GuildRat]

Heaven forbid we really don't know what if ANYthing warranted the multitude of rounds being fired at the men and the fact that NONE were fired back.

Yeah.


Smooth....quote CNN...and you'll stay safe as a bug in a rug.

[Kefka]

Present your card and enter the moron club.

Jump to conclusions much? No sir. That makes you the moron. Welcome!

[DeV]

CNN reported that nearby homes were struck by gunfire. That is scary as fuck if it happens to be true.

[StrayRogue]

Regardless of whether or not it was a mistake or whatever, things got way out of hand on the police side of things.

[DeV]

Smooth....quote CNN...and you'll stay safe as a bug in a rug.
At least I'm quoting a significant news source.

Who exactly in the hell are you quoting with your barrage of factual information, pray tell?

[thornhappy]

Homes nearby a stripclub well known for narcotics/violence/prostitution? Not really, it's probably standard for those residents.

[Ilvane]

50 rounds?

A bit excessive, don't you think?

Angela

[Stanley Burrell]

Yes, the normal citizen uses two vehicles to block you in as you try to leave a club.

Duh?

There is very distinct unmarked vehicle protocol. They did not do a box maneuver.

[GuildRat]

At least I'm quoting a significant news source.

Who exactly in the hell are you quoting with your barrage of factual information, pray tell?

Haha...the Communist News Network spins everything...and you think they're reliable?

[CrystalTears]

Regardless of whether or not it was a mistake or whatever, things got way out of hand on the police side of things.
:yeahthat:

[Back]

Ok, read a little more about it...

Sounds like a bad case of mixed signals and lack of communication. Considering the environment and the situation can’t say I’d blame any of them. Maybe the guys in the car thought they were getting jacked? Maybe the cops thought they had something to finish up their case?

Still, it is tragic.

[DeV]

Haha...the Communist News Network spins everything...and you think they're reliable?Answering a question by posing one. Nice. We'll pretend mine was rhetorical and I'll do the same with regard to yours.

[Atlanteax]

The most ironic thing about any sort of public outrage, in regard to situations like these... is that the loudest screamers of police brutality and loss of human life are (primarily) individuals who have lived sheltered lives (unexposed to any real physical danger or harsh lifestyles).

[GuildRat]

Here's what kills me!!

You people think that a police officer should be your knight in shining armor when you're "fucked", be the guy that lets you off with a warning when you're speeding, and the scapegoat when shit goes wrong.

Hypocritcal much?

[CrystalTears]

I don't hear anyone saying that the guys were innocent and that they didn't deserve some sort of punishment. I just personally feel that 50 rounds being shot at them with nothing in return was excessive and unnecessary.

[StrayRogue]

Here's what kills me!!

You people think that a police officer should be your knight in shining armor when you're "fucked", be the guy that lets you off with a warning when you're speeding, and the scapegoat when shit goes wrong.

Hypocritcal much?

You think they did something RIGHT here?

Are you crazy?

[DeV]

Yea, what CT said.

No one said that, but thanks for getting it out of the way.

[GuildRat]

Liberals.....feh...curse all of you.

[zhelas]

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/7/c/87cf706ceda689fc0dd28df65ba1f6be.gif

[Skeeter]

I've spent many nights in a strip club, andif a guy approaches me at 4am in a strip club parking lot I'm getting out of there even if I have to go through him. 100% of the time I'm going to assume I'm about to get robbed.

Cops were stupid for allowing themselves to get in this situation. They didn't have any buddies in real police cars and uniforms anywhere nearby?

[StrayRogue]

Seriously, you think firing 50 rounds at someone you SUSPECT to be armed isn't excessive?

[zhelas]

Seriously, you think firing 50 rounds at someone you SUSPECT to be armed isn't excessive?

What about the fact that a car is a lethal weapon?

Agreed that the situation got out of control.

[Sean of the Thread]

And if they knew they were unarmed, then they are fuckheads for opening fire on the car who touched their precious vehicles.

I'm sorry, that was 21 rounds that hit the car, 50 rounds shot in total. Yeah. I'm sure that was justified. /sarcasm.

They were armed with a 3500lb vehicle.

[Stanley Burrell]

Here's what kills me!!

You people think that a police officer should be your knight in shining armor when you're "fucked", be the guy that lets you off with a warning when you're speeding, and the scapegoat when shit goes wrong.

Hypocritcal much?

My issue is 100% having to deal with their (the officers) being fucked due to a shitload of improper procedure and mishandled communication leading up to said fucked-ing (a lot not directly involving on scene incidents.)

After DA declassification, I am pretty sure no one will even graze upon the surface of any derelictions involving unmarked protocol, radio follow-up, weapons procedure, code call, patrol speed nomenclature, etc. one bit. They (the officers) had plenty of time not to use spur-of-the-moment alpha brain waves prior to the crime scene unfolding.

This is also a problem, tremendously, involving a lot of presinct thinktanks undercutting other borough operations. The police should operate as a whole, which I am also sure has its political/funding implications, as well, as to why things happened as they did.

Whatever.

[Skirmisher]

People, relax.

We'll know more soon enough to make a far better educated decision on this very sad event..

There is no reason to argue at this point. just take a breath.

[Sean of the Thread]

I don't hear anyone saying that the guys were innocent and that they didn't deserve some sort of punishment. I just personally feel that 50 rounds being shot at them with nothing in return was excessive and unnecessary.

Guess you're right.. they should have shot 1 warning shot and waited to see what happened. You shoot until the threat has ceased. Same when they deal with any lethal criminals. Unless shot in the central nervous system it takes about 2 mins to bleed to death via gunshot... that 2 minutes someone with a gun/weapon that has been shot can kill you or others.

[GuildRat]

People, relax.

We'll know more soon enough to make a far better educated decision on this very sad event..

There is no reason to argue at this point. just take a breath.

Sorry, it's not a sad event for me. It's more or less the groom-to-be got stupid and did it to himself.

The sad part is that the police are under fire for this.

[CrystalTears]

It's a shame we can't ask him why he did what he did, huh?

[GuildRat]

Nope....it's not a shame at all. I've no pity for him.

[zhelas]

They were armed with a 3500lb vehicle.

:yeahthat:

[Sean of the Thread]

It's a shame we can't ask him why he did what he did, huh?

Sir! Why are you lethally endangering myself and others with your very heavy very deadly vehicle??? Seriously sir stop your car and tell me!

[DeV]

The sad part is that the police are under fire for this.
Not really.

It comes with the job.

[Sean of the Thread]

Not really.

It comes with the job.

Absolutely.

[CrystalTears]

Sir! Why are you lethally endangering myself and others with your very heavy very deadly vehicle??? Seriously sir stop your car and tell me!
If you guys want to focus on the vehicle, that's fine. I never said that those guys were innocent. I never said that he shouldn't be stopped somehow.

I'll agree that he was being reckless with his vehicle. Will you agree that shooting 50 rounds at them was excessive?

[GuildRat]

No...50 rounds wasn't. A hellfire missle would've been.

I've seen that 200 rounds didn't stop a vehicle...so 50's a drop in the barrel.

[Sean of the Thread]

Will you agree that shooting 50 rounds at them was excessive?

No.

[Stanley Burrell]

When a crime is perpetrated when an officer inflicts fatal injury upon an involved criminal suspect any other's criminal involvement regarding that case has a clause for murder 1st and 2nd.

Just a shame that 99% of the time bylaws never apply to paper trails and procedure. Oh fucking well :shrug:

[Back]

Regarding the media and this story... here is a breaking news piece on BBC’s site.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6189442.stm


Police 'backed' over NY shooting

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has condemned the shooting of an unarmed black man at the weekend, but said he will support the city's police chief.

Mr Bloomberg also pledged a fair and thorough investigation, following talks with Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

Sean Bell, 23, was killed when police shot 50 rounds at his car after he left a strip club on the eve of his wedding.

It is alleged that police began firing after the man's car hit an unmarked police car.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I have to call them out on their bias with an insane lack of detail.

[DeV]

Will you agree that shooting 50 rounds at them was excessive?"It was the first time any of the officers, all of whom carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, he said."

[Latrinsorm]

One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly saidDoes this little bit puzzle anyone else?

[Alfster]

Here's what kills me!!

You people think that a police officer should be your knight in shining armor when you're "fucked", be the guy that lets you off with a warning when you're speeding, and the scapegoat when shit goes wrong.

Hypocritcal much?

We do?

[GuildRat]

"It was the first time any of the officers, all of whom carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, he said."

So? The first tme I fired a weapon at a person I was in combat. You think these police officers thought different?

[GuildRat]

Does this little bit puzzle anyone else?

No...I've emptied 200 rounds when circumstances waranted. And 1 when I had the opportunity.

[DeV]

The first tme I fired a weapon at a person I was in combat. So?


You think these police officers thought different?I'm almost 99.999% sure they were thinking exactly as you would have thought in that situation.

[GuildRat]

So?

I'm almost 99.999% sure they were thinking exactly as you would have thought in that situation.

Thanks for making my argument. They were probably scared as shitless as I was the first time I fired my weapon in a real life scenario.

And my thought process...kill the fuckers before they get me.

[CrystalTears]

Are we really comparing a war/combat situation to a possible suspect in a bar?

[DeV]

Thanks for making my argument. You're welcome, but I fail to see any semblance of an argument being made here, IMO.
They were probably scared as shitless as I was the first time I fired my weapon in a real life scenario.Clearly, being an undercover officer and all, I mean it's only natural they were scared shitless.


And my thought process...kill the fuckers before they get me.Unhuh.

[Sean of the Thread]

Are we really comparing a war/combat situation to a possible suspect in a bar?

A threat to life is a threat to life. If they didn't open fire and this car went raging thru a crosswalk full of people causing mass manslaughter or ran over an officer/bystander with no shots fired you guys would be WTF didn't the police take the correct action against the threat!!!

[Asha]

I keep thinking what British police in the same situation would have done. I'm sure they would not have had firearms and I'm also sure it'd have ended differently. Probably without fatalities if the police were not staking them out in the first place, while positive they'd be armed.
Would be an interesting contrast of outcomes I'm sure.

[Sean of the Thread]

Bottom line is there is no such thing as excessive force when dealing with a lethal threat. 1 bullet.. 50 bullets..it doesn't fucking matter.

[DeV]

Don't undercover officers in the UK carry firearms?

[Alfster]

A threat to life is a threat to life. If they didn't open fire and this car went raging thru a crosswalk full of people causing mass manslaughter or ran over an officer/bystander with no shots fired you guys would be WTF didn't the police take the correct action against the threat!!!

Let's shoot all the drunk drivers then because they're using a weapon

[Landrion]

Let's shoot all the drunk drivers then because they're using a weapon

Dont be silly, bullets dont work on straw men.

[Asha]

Don't undercover officers in the UK carry firearms?



I won't pretend to know. I didn't think so, unless they were undercover in company of who were expected to carry them.
Depends how dangerous a group they were infiltrating.

[Sean of the Thread]

Let's shoot all the drunk drivers then because they're using a weapon

Absolutely.. if they pull over a drunk and he starts ramming shit in his car or swinging a weapon around where there is a threat to officer or another they should plug him/her one way or another.

[Alfster]

Absolutely.. if they pull over a drunk and he starts ramming shit in his car or swinging a weapon around where there is a threat to officer or another they should plug him/her one way or another.

How does an unmarked, no siren car pull over a drunk?

[Asha]

Blue light out of the glove box LA style!

[GuildRat]

Let's shoot all the drunk drivers then because they're using a weapon

You win moron of the moment. Let's not kill the drunk drivers that pull over and take their medicine.

However, let's kill the fuckers that don't care about human life, or property, just because they have their "buzz on".

[Sean of the Thread]

Well obviously the drunk drivers wouldn't apply to this situation. You gotta comply with the fucking police right or wrong or suffer the consequences. Rofl like my sister in law getting tazered twice last night for not signing a ticket.

[Alfster]

Well obviously the drunk drivers wouldn't apply to this situation. You gotta comply with the fucking police right or wrong or suffer the consequences. Rofl like my sister in law getting tazered twice last night for not signing a ticket.

But you just said...



A threat to life is a threat to life.

And drunk driving can most certainly kill

[Gan]

One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly said...

Does this little bit puzzle anyone else?

(2) 15 round magazines, + 1 loaded in the chamber before the shooting started.

[GuildRat]

But you just said...



And drunk driving can most certainly kill

You've never seen the show about the wildest pursuit have you? Cops tend to show hella restraint.

[GuildRat]

(2) 15 round magazines, + 1 loaded in the chamber before the shooting started.


31 bullets..who cares?...I'd have had the shotgun out of the cruiser and my 9mm.

[DeV]

Cops tend to show hella restraint.
Common sense. When they are on television being filmed you'd think that would go without saying.

[Gan]

They should have thrown in a few flash/bangs in the car towards the end, nothing like a good fire to wrap things up with.

[GuildRat]

Common sense. When they are on television being filmed you'd think that would go without saying.

And we know the cameras are always running...SHOW ME FILM.

[Sean of the Thread]

But you just said...



And drunk driving can most certainly kill

Exactly.. once a drunk is caught and pulls over and they comply with the police they are no longer a threat to others.. if they start acting the fool they're gonna get stomped down one way or another.

I'm not arguing that what happened was right or not.. nobody knows at this point. I was arguing with the someone in this thread that said 50 bullets is excessive force when it's clearly not. Excessive force would have been someone holding the guy down while 2 officers pumped 50 rounds into his head and toss a plunger or two in for shits and giggles.

[DeV]

And we know the cameras are always running...SHOW ME FILM.Precisely, given the comment and the situation you described.

It's the only reason you stating this "You've never seen the show about the wildest pursuit have you? Cops tend to show hella restraint" makes any sense.

[Sean of the Thread]

And we know the cameras are always running...SHOW ME FILM.

I'm sure there was a convient "technical difficulty" resulting in no film if the officers were in the wrong. Unless of course there is a third party recording.

[Asha]

Heh I love that.
''Yo aint no cameras, mow em down aight!''

Likin it.

[Sean of the Thread]

Someone I know got the shit kicked out of her by a trooper on a dui stop after the sobriety tests they give in front of the camera on the cruiser. When the focus changed towards the officer for criminal charges the recording "vanished" and they dropped all charges on her.

[CrystalTears]

It's not so cut and dry as to say that what the unarmed guys got was deserved, or whether they instigated it. We're making too many assumptions about this case. Hopefully the investigation clears up some of the holes in this story because something just doesn't seem right on both sides.

[Sean of the Thread]

What's not an assumption is that they were armed with a vehicle and were ramming shit. That much is a fact thus far.

[Atlanteax]

Are we really comparing a war/combat situation to a possible suspect in a bar?

This was no ordinary bar.

This was a heavily crime-invested strip club with armed individuals willing to shoot over drugs (and money).

This was a shoot or be killed environment. Probably would be safer in Iraq on a random day than in there.

[DeV]

Someone I know got the shit kicked out of her by a trooper on a dui stop after the sobriety tests they give in front of the camera on the cruiser. When the focus changed towards the officer for criminal charges the recording "vanished" and they dropped all charges on her.Yeah, except Guildrat was talking about a specific situation where a television show is centered around police chases. Successful ones, obviously. Nothing at all to do with the situation currently being discussed.

I have a similar story where a friend of mine was maced inside her car and charged with resisting arrest. The police department flat out refused to turn over the video to her attorney. The case went to trial and was thrown out. So yeah, it happens. Never said otherwise.

[Sean of the Thread]

Oh I wasn't arguing with you was just saying. What's hilarious about this discussion is my sister in law got a speeding ticket yesterday afternoon.. ver docile girl.. biochemist.. monotone (rofl) and she unbuckled her seat belt to get into the glove box and the cop gave her a ticket for no seatbelt and she refused to sign it like a dumbass.. he yanked her out of the car thru the window and tazered her twice. That might be considered excessive force. We'll find out if the video was functional soon enough hehehe.

[GuildRat]

Yeah, except Guildrat was talking about a specific situation where a television show is centered around police chases. Successful ones, obviously. Nothing at all to do with the situation currently being discussed.

I have a similar story where a friend of mine was maced inside her car and charged with resisting arrest. The police department flat out refused to turn over the video to her attorney. The case went to trial and was thrown out. So yeah, it happens. Never said otherwise.

Yes, and the general public is prepared to see deaths that result from these pursuits.


You've demonstrated they're not.

[DeV]

You've demonstrated they're not.And you've demonstrated absolutely nothing in your reply. Grats.

[DeV]

he yanked her out of the car thru the window and tazered her twice. That might be considered excessive force. Man, wtf.

That's madness.

[GuildRat]

And you've demonstrated absolutely nothing in your reply. Grats.


You're so right...I've demonstrated that the police need to be neutered by piss-ants like you (sarcasm), in order to preserve some semblance of order.

DeV...get a fucking life.

[Kefka]

Somehow, I'll feel alot safer when it's confirmed GuildRat's not a cop. Everyone would be target practice.

[DeV]

You're so right... No shit. Feel free to apply this quote to the next brainless comment you pull out of your ass, I mean that thing you think with(not sarcasm).


I've demonstrated that the police need to be neutered by piss-ants like you (sarcasm), in order to preserve some semblance of order.You've demonstrated absolutely nothing in your reply. Grats again.


DeV...get a fucking life.Get a fucking clue and learn to read and comprehend while you're at it.

[CrystalTears]

Somehow, I'll feel alot safer when it's confirmed GuildRat's not a cop. Everyone would be target practice.
He's supposedly defending our country. Frankly that scares me just as much.

[Some Rogue]

You're so right...I've demonstrated that the police need to be neutered by piss-ants like you (sarcasm), in order to preserve some semblance of order.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/civildisobedience01.png

Amirite???

[Kefka]

He's supposedly defending our country. Frankly that scares me just as much.

Then he's in the right place. Away from us.

[Sean of the Thread]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/civildisobedience01.png

Amirite???

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/walter.jpg

[TheEschaton]

1) GuildRat seems to not care for civil liberties.

2) If the cops were completely undercover, and the guys had no idea there were cops present, EVERYTHING they say has to be taken in context. I know lots of times at 4 AM when I'm drunk I say absolutely insane shit, sometimes in the presence of strangers I don't know. IF they were uniformed, and the guy threatened him with the possibility of a gun, then yes, take it seriously.

3) There has already been tales of conflicting reports from eyewitnesses. One supposed eyewitness (a stripper from the club) maintains she was PUTTING STUFF IN THE TRUNK, when the (unmarked) cop car came out of nowhere, struck the vehicle, and opened fire. The police obviously said that they struck the cop.

4) This case will come down to physical evidence. Did they not start the car? Was the trunk opened? Is there video footage of what happened?

5) People will say, who should we trust, cops or a stripper, and most side with cops. But, cops have this weird fraternal thing where they make up a story and stick with it. The girl has no reason to make up a story like that. And cops have made up stories before to justify the "justice" they dispense. The question is whether they'll charge the two guys they didn't kill, which would be interesting.

And, of course...as usual...there's the whole racial issue.

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

yep gonna be interesting.

[Kefka]

Not so much racial. 2 black cops, 2 white cops and 1 latino cop. It's been said that one of the victims in stable condition was handcuffed to the rail of his hospital bed. From what I've read, the stripper was suppose to go a diner with the three and the situation went down without identifying themselves or saying freeze or anything.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, the plot thickens.

[Sean of the Thread]

More heresay.. wooooohoooo.

[TheEschaton]

Black men getting shot by cops is always racial. As NWA said:

"But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop."

-TheE-

[Kefka]

More heresay.. wooooohoooo.

From an actual witness... imagine that. Somehow I think her story will be the same when she testifies.

[Sean of the Thread]

Oh. Sorry I thought was you just posted was heresay.

[Kefka]

Black men getting shot by cops is always racial. As NWA said:

"But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop."

-TheE-

I was actually thinking about that rap today. :lol: Though it could've been an Officer Tenpenny situation as well. (San Andreas for those not in the know)

[Shari]

Okay, I've waded through the bullshit as far as I can.

Guildrat, wtf is up your ass? Are you a cop or something? I'm not saying either side is right/wrong but why the fuck do you have such a hair up your ass about this situation?

[Sean of the Thread]

My penis tingles when you talk about "up your ass" shari.

[Latrinsorm]

No...I've emptied 200 rounds when circumstances waranted. And 1 when I had the opportunity.Ganalon hooked me up, thanks Tex. :)
IF they were uniformed, and the guy threatened him with the possibility of a gun, then yes, take it seriously.Police officers should always take gun violence threats seriously, wtf?

[Keller]

First, isn't there some sort of police protocol where you have to identify yourself as a cop? For all these 4 men knew, some homies were boxing them in and they needed to get the fuck out of there or else the gang-bangers would open fire on their car. Little did they know the gang-bangers were actually cops. Pity.


As an aside, who the fuck is this Guild Rat dipshit? I think he needs to get the fuck out of America until he can appreciate civil liberties. I think perhaps a little forced visit to Singapore might allow him to recognize why we regulate when and why cops may use force.

[Sean of the Thread]

I HIGHLY doubt they didn't identify themselves as police.

[Keller]

I HIGHLY doubt they didn't identify themselves as police.

Good. That's pretty much the only material piece of information for me. If the kids knew they were ramming cops and not car-jackers, then they pretty much deserved what they got.

On the other hand, if they didn't know they were police boxing them in, then I'm all for sending these cops to prison for a long, LONG time.

[Krendeli]

The guy didn't have to go to his wedding. I think he got the better end of the deal.

[Sean of the Thread]

rofl /AGREE

[Kefka]

I HIGHLY doubt they didn't identify themselves as police.

I highly doubt a group of undercover cops would blow their cover over a hand gesture. Or is it easier to assume three guys who had no weapons, no drugs and did nothing wrong would just freak out and try to flee police officers upon identification?

[Alfster]

You've never seen the show about the wildest pursuit have you? Cops tend to show hella restraint.

Your assumptions are as bad as your conclusions

[Alfster]

Exactly.. once a drunk is caught and pulls over and they comply with the police they are no longer a threat to others.. if they start acting the fool they're gonna get stomped down one way or another.

I'm not arguing that what happened was right or not.. nobody knows at this point. I was arguing with the someone in this thread that said 50 bullets is excessive force when it's clearly not. Excessive force would have been someone holding the guy down while 2 officers pumped 50 rounds into his head and toss a plunger or two in for shits and giggles.

I'm not arguing one way or another (not enough information), but my posts were more in reply to this quote


Sir! Why are you lethally endangering myself and others with your very heavy very deadly vehicle??? Seriously sir stop your car and tell me!

and


If they didn't open fire and this car went raging thru a crosswalk full of people causing mass manslaughter or ran over an officer/bystander with no shots fired you guys would be WTF didn't the police take the correct action against the threat!!!

sounds like something a drunk would/could do

[Stanley Burrell]

How does an unmarked, no siren car

They have sirens.

[Stanley Burrell]

Absolutely.. if they pull over a drunk and he starts ramming shit in his car or swinging a weapon around where there is a threat to officer or another they should plug him/her one way or another.

Fatally ramming shit? Yes.

Handgun? Yes.

Fender bender? No.

Unarmed? No.

[Gan]

All this conjecture when all the evidence has yet to have been brought to light.

I got the warm fuzzies when I saw a few people iterate that even though it sounded bad, there's still not much information to draw a logical and proper conclusion yet.

And then there's the other 3 pages of posts, iterating no concept of what really happened just what they assume. :spaz:

I'll wait until more information is released and a proper media report can be filed instead of the hype. kthx.

[Seran]

Not only did he ram a car, he hit an officer with a vehicle. That is all that is required to establish the right to open fire. Considering was overhead talks of guns, who knows what else would've happened.

Completely justified

[Tisket]

I'd like to see news articles for all the times a cop stayed his hand:


Police officer not involved in shooting.

It's so much more commonplace.

Anyway, I too dislike when cops are made into the villain in an incident like this. But cops are not automatically immune from making stupid, impulsive decisions.

However, I tend to believe that the officers involved in this incident did follow proceedures and identified themselves. Because that's what they train to do. It would be pretty hard to swallow that they all forgot this one time. Possible. But unlikely. It's far more likely, that the guys in the car reacted stupidly and as a result got themselves shot.

And once the decision to use deadly force is made why on earth would the cops be half-assed about it? Saving bullets wouldn't be a big priority after all...

[Back]

All this conjecture when all the evidence has yet to have been brought to light.

I got the warm fuzzies when I saw a few people iterate that even though it sounded bad, there's still not much information to draw a logical and proper conclusion yet.

And then there's the other 3 pages of posts, iterating no concept of what really happened just what they assume. :spaz:

I'll wait until more information is released and a proper media report can be filed instead of the hype. kthx.

Holy R-Than-Thou, Batman!

Yeesh, lighten up. So people want to speculate and give their opinions. Big whoop. People do it in sports all the time. Imagine if some asshole walked in and said, “Ha! All of you losers can speculate, but I’m not going to say anything until after the game!”

Enjoy the view on that high horse.

[Kefka]

Not only did he ram a car, he hit an officer with a vehicle. That is all that is required to establish the right to open fire. Considering was overhead talks of guns, who knows what else would've happened.

Completely justified

They're not cops to us until they identify themselves. Anytime before that, they're considered men with guns.

[Daniel]

And once the decision to use deadly force is made why on earth would the cops be half-assed about it? Saving bullets wouldn't be a big priority after all...

^

Except for the fact that pieces of metal flying at high rates of speed tend to be a hazard to other people besides the one they are shooting at.

[Stanley Burrell]

Not only did he ram a car, he hit an officer with a vehicle. That is all that is required to establish the right to open fire.

No.


Completely justified

With all events thrown into the blender, then flavored with pure black and white contrasting at the moment of opening fire, probably (imho)

[Kefka]

The situation began to unravel when one of the officers alerted the back-up team outside that a man inside was possibly armed. During a later altercation among patrons, police claim they heard a member of Bell's bachelor party, say, "Yo, get my gun."

One of the undercover detectives responded by retrieving his weapon and confronting Bell and his friends after they entered their car. Kelly suggested that it was unorthodox for the officer to blow his cover rather than rely on other officers to make the arrest.

"He was still acting in an undercover capacity when he followed the group down the street and apparently took some enforcement action, and that was unusual," Kelly said.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/nyc.shooting.ap/index.html


It is not immediately clear if the men in the car knew they were dealing with a police officer. Friends and family have speculated Bell got spooked by having a gun pointed at his vehicle, possibly crashing the car in a panic.

[HarmNone]

It will be interesting to see what the investigation into this incident uncovers. Right now, it's just a bunch of conflicting stories told by those who were there, some directly involved and some uninvolved.

[Latrinsorm]

People do it in sports all the time.People don't get killed on the baseball diamond, though.

[Sean of the Thread]

Unless you're a pigeon and fly right into a Randy Johnson 100mph fast ball.

[Nieninque]

People don't get killed on the baseball diamond, though.

Especially not before the game.

[Keller]

What's most surprising about this thread is that Ganalon hasn't pointed out they were in fact armed . . . . with a car!

<3 U Ganalon

[Gan]

:lol:

If it had only been a handfull of shots I might have offered that up or supported it when it was offered earlier by GuildRat (he makes me look liberal). But with 51 or so rounds expended, well, something about this whole story stinks so I'm including the car/weapon theory in with the rest.

Damnit I'm trying to be objective here!

;)

[TheEschaton]

The police union is "insisting" that the undercover cop identified himself, but considering the police department itself isn't issuing that statement....I find it dubious.

It looks like it'll be a big "He said, she said" sort of thing, and it'll never be resolved satisfactorily.

-TheE-

[Keller]

Given his "Spew venom and then dissapear," does anyone else get the feeling that Guild Rat is Tamral's new handle?

[Daniel]

Nah, Tamral feels pretty strongly about military people being stupid.

[Alfster]

Nah, Tamral feels pretty strongly about military people being stupid.

In a general sense he's not far off. There are plenty of intelligent soldiers, but the dumb ones tend to stick out more.

[Daniel]

Heh. There's plenty of dumbasses that would never even consider putting on a military uniform.

[Alfster]

you can throw me in that category

[TheEschaton]

But the U.S. gov't doesn't give those dumbasses guns and almost free reign to shoot people. ;)

-TheE-

[Daniel]

Most of the crazy ones had access to guns well before the military.

[Sean of the Thread]

Police shoot Unarmed man 81 times - Video
Los Angeles sheriffs gun down Deandre Brunston in Compton, He was unarmed. The object in his hand was a flipflop he found on the porch. The dog was airlifted while Deandre was left to die on the ground

U2U for link to video if you like.

[Skirmisher]

Wow, i never saw that video before.

Incredibly disturbing.

[ElanthianSiren]

Given his "Spew venom and then dissapear," does anyone else get the feeling that Guild Rat is Tamral's new handle?

No. -Different posting style entirely and a different kind of aggression. Tamral is more passive-aggressive.

I agree with TheE's last post on this. It won't be resolved, and of course the cops are going to claim that they acted under proper protocol and others are going to claim that they didn't. Imagine four year olds pointing fingers.

-M

[Apotheosis]

On an unrelated note, I hear Bloomberg's actually a great mayor for NY.................

[Keller]

Guild Rat douses this thread with gasoline, throws a match, and walks away?

What a GIANT PUSSY.

I was really looking forward to this thread, too.

:(

[Kefka]

3 NYPD detectives acquitted in 50-shot killing

NEW YORK - Three detectives were acquitted of all charges Friday in the 50-shot killing of an unarmed groom-to-be on his wedding day, a case that put the NYPD at the center of another dispute involving allegations of excessive firepower.

Scores of police officers surrounded the courthouse to guard against potential chaos, and as news of the verdict spread, many in the crowd began weeping. Others were enraged, swearing and screaming "Murderers! Murderers!" or "KKK!"

Inside the courtroom, spectators gasped. Sean Bell's fiancee immediately walked out of the room; his mother cried.

Bell, a 23-year-old black man, was killed in a hail of gunfire outside a seedy strip club in Queens on Nov. 25, 2006 as he was leaving his bachelor party with two friends. The case ignited the emotions of people across the city and led to widespread protests among those who felt the officers used unnecessary force.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting


More of the same. No surprises here

[Snapp]

What a shock.

[Ilvane]

Freaking amazing.

I can't believe they found them not guilty. Sickening.

So when do you shoot someone 50 times and not be guilty?

When you are a New York City cop, obviously.

[sst]

Good job legal system its nice to see it work every once in a while.

[Skeeter]

Freaking amazing.

I can't believe they found them not guilty. Sickening.

So when do you shoot someone 50 times and not be guilty?

When you are a New York City cop, obviously.

So if they only shot him once you would think they were not guilty?

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

NYPD IMMUNITY MOTHERFUCKAS!

I wishes I had it, then I could go out and do everything I was told not to as a child. WEEEEEE!

[Latrinsorm]

For someone who's so offended by people doubting your testimony, Ilvane, it would be surprising that you have this reaction to a trial you weren't a part of if, you know, I hadn't read any of your other posts. :(

[Mistomeer]

I don't know, this whole case is just really sad. On one hand, you can see the cops point of view - You're a cop, identify yourself as such, and dude starts coming at you with a car (assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder) and so you respond in kind by firing your weapon. 50 bullets to stop a moving car is not unreasonable.

On the other hand, you see the kid who sees some plain clothes guys pull guns and you panic and try to take off. Who knows if they said, "Police!"? You see a gun and you panic and run.

So what do you do? Punishing the cops isn't going to fix it and really, it was just a terrible accident all the way around. If the kid had realized they were cops, he probably wouldn't have run. If the cops had realized it was just some innocent wedding party, they probably wouldn't have stopped them.

[TheEschaton]

I don't know why the cops pulled the guns without anything happening.

And why they were surprised when the people in it tried to run. Hell, if I was at a nightclub in Brooklyn, and someone drew down on me in normal clothes, I'd try and run too.

-TheE-

[Gan]

NEW YORK (CNN) -- None of us was there that fateful night when a young man lost his life on his wedding day, the night three New York Police Department detectives lost their careers and lives as they knew them.


But the people who were there told their version of events. And the judge, also sitting as the jury, decided whom to believe. Isn't that the very crux of our judicial system?

I predict that the Sean Bell case will be examined in law school classrooms across the country. It has given us a bird's-eye view into a courtroom practice that many had never heard of: the bench trial.

The Sixth Amendment to the Constitution ensures that we have the right to a trial by a jury of our peers in a serious criminal case. But as with all rights, you can voluntarily, knowingly and intelligently waive that right and instead have your case tried by a judge.

That is what Michael Oliver, Marc Cooper and Gescard Isnora did. Many thought it was a gamble. It was a gamble that paid off.

Justice Arthur Cooperman, a 74-year-old bench veteran, acquitted all three detectives. The public is outraged. But it shouldn't be. Cooperman did what we ask every juror to do: consider and determine the facts of the case -- that is, what he believed to be the true facts -- from among all of the evidence in the case.

In a criminal trial, jurors are instructed that a defendant does not have to prove his innocence. It is the prosecution that has a very high burden, to prove the charged conduct beyond a reasonable doubt. Jurors are also given specific instructions on how to weigh evidence in every single criminal case. In fact, I've heard it so many times that I can recite it from memory:

As judges of the facts, you alone determine the truthfulness and accuracy of the testimony of each witness. You must decide whether a witness told the truth and was accurate, or instead, testified falsely or was mistaken. You must also decide what importance to give to the testimony you accept as truthful and accurate. It is the quality of the testimony that is controlling, not the number of witnesses who testify. If you find that any witness has intentionally testified falsely as to any material fact, you may disregard that witness's entire testimony.

It is so very clear that Cooperman did exactly what any juror was supposed to do. He listened to the evidence. He learned that Club Kalua, the strip club that Sean Bell and his companions were at that night, had been at the center of neighborhood complaints, drug activity and prostitution arrests, which is why undercover officers were there in the first place.

He heard the consistent grand jury testimony of all three defendant police officers. He heard the testimony of Detective Hispolito Sanchez, an undercover officer inside the club who heard Bell's companion, Joseph Guzman say "Yo, get my gun" and heard Sean Bell threaten to beat up a man near an SUV.

And he heard the testimony of Guzman, who denied, contrary to the testimony of other witnesses, that he uttered the words "Go get my gun." Cooperman also learned that Guzman had spent five years in prison for robbery and drug convictions for selling crack and was suing for $50 million in civil court.

It was clear that Guzman was the linchpin of this case. If you believe him, that the officers shot at Bell and his friends for no reason at all, the officers are guilty. If you don't believe him, then his statement -- "Go get my gun" -- sent the night into mayhem, causing the officers to believe that the men were armed and justifying the officers' actions that night.

Guzman was combative on the stand, irreverent. During his cross-examination by attorney Anthony L. Ricco, who represented Isnora, he shot back: "You know what needs to happen? This needs to happen to your family."

In explaining his decision, Cooperman said prosecutors had not proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt because of a combination of factors. Chief among them: inconsistent statements by prosecution witnesses, their demeanor on the stand, their interest in the outcome of the case and their motives to lie.

"These factors," the judge said, "had the effect of eviscerating the credibility of those prosecution witnesses."

Translation: The government could not prove its case against the officers because the judge didn't believe Trent Benefield and Joseph Guzman. They are suing the police department for $50 million. They blew the case for the prosecution.

This is not over. There is a civil case pending, and the standard of proof is much lower. The feds are now looking at it. And we will be watching and deciding what and whom to believe

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sunny.bell/index.html

__________________________________________________ _______

Probably the most enlightening article about how the trial actually unfolded that I've seen to date.

[TheEschaton]

Smart move on the cops part to make it a bench trial. Juries are more prone to acquit based on emotions (which they are allowed to do), than a judge is.

-TheE-

[Gan]

NEW YORK (AP) - Hundreds of angry people marched through Harlem on Saturday after the Rev. Al Sharpton promised to "close this city down" to protest the acquittals of three police detectives in the 50-shot barrage that killed a groom on his wedding day and wounded two friends.

"We strategically know how to stop the city so people stand still and realize that you do not have the right to shoot down unarmed, innocent civilians," Sharpton told an overflow crowd of several hundred people at his National Action Network office in the historically black Manhattan neighborhood. "This city is going to deal with the blood of Sean Bell."

Sharpton was joined by the family of 23-year-old Sean Bell - a black man - and a friend of Bell who was wounded in the 2006 shooting outside a Queens strip club. Two of the three officers charged were also black.

The rally at Sharpton's office was followed by a 20-block march down Malcolm X Boulevard and then across 125th Street, Harlem's main business thoroughfare, where some bystanders yelled out "Kill the police!"

Fifty of the marchers carried white placards bearing big black numbers for each of the police bullets fired at Bell and his friends.

Sharpton urged people to return for a meeting this coming week "to plan the day that we will close this city down" with the kind of "massive civil disobedience" once led by Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

"They never accused Sean Bell of doing anything. Then why is he dead?" Sharpton asked, his voice roaring with anger. Authorities "have shown now that they will not hold police accountable. Well, guess what? If you won't, we will!"

"Shut it down! Shut it down!" the crowd chanted, standing up and applauding wildly.

Sharpton didn't say exactly how they would protest the acquittals of the officers who fired the 50 shots. He said Bell's supporters could demonstrate all over the city, from Wall Street to the home of Justice Arthur Cooperman, who on Friday acquitted the three detectives after a nonjury trial.

Sitting behind Sharpton as he spoke were Bell's parents, his sister and Nicole Paultre Bell, who took her fiance's name after his death.

"The justice system let me down," Paultre Bell told the crowd in a soft voice. "April 25, 2008: They killed Sean all over again. That's what it felt like to us."

It was her first public comment since she stormed out of a courtroom Friday after the NYPD detectives were cleared in Bell's killing as he left his bachelor party.
One of Bell's companions, Joseph Guzman, also spoke briefly on Saturday, saying: "We've got a long fight."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080426/D909P8SG0.html

[TheEschaton]

An enraged Al Sharpton enters the fray!

Wow, I LOLed real hard at this.

[Skeeter]

An enraged Al Sharpton makes yet another grab for personal attention.

[Kyra231]

NEW YORK (AP) -

Sharpton urged people to return for a meeting this coming week "to plan the day that we will close this city down" with the kind of "massive civil disobedience" once led by Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.




Good god, could this guy sound any fucking dumber? 'shut down the city of ny'...yeah right, let me know how that works out for you numb shit.

~K.

[Stanley Burrell]

NEW YORK (AP) - Hundreds of angry people marched through Harlem on Saturday after the Rev. Al Sharpton promised to "close this city down" to protest the acquittals of three police detectives in the 50-shot barrage that killed a groom on his wedding day and wounded two friends.

"We strategically know how to stop the city so people stand still and realize that you do not have the right to shoot down unarmed, innocent civilians," Sharpton told an overflow crowd of several hundred people at his National Action Network office in the historically black Manhattan neighborhood. "This city is going to deal with the blood of Sean Bell."

Sharpton was joined by the family of 23-year-old Sean Bell - a black man - and a friend of Bell who was wounded in the 2006 shooting outside a Queens strip club. Two of the three officers charged were also black.

The rally at Sharpton's office was followed by a 20-block march down Malcolm X Boulevard and then across 125th Street, Harlem's main business thoroughfare, where some bystanders yelled out "Kill the police!"

Fifty of the marchers carried white placards bearing big black numbers for each of the police bullets fired at Bell and his friends.

Sharpton urged people to return for a meeting this coming week "to plan the day that we will close this city down" with the kind of "massive civil disobedience" once led by Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

"They never accused Sean Bell of doing anything. Then why is he dead?" Sharpton asked, his voice roaring with anger. Authorities "have shown now that they will not hold police accountable. Well, guess what? If you won't, we will!"

"Shut it down! Shut it down!" the crowd chanted, standing up and applauding wildly.

Sharpton didn't say exactly how they would protest the acquittals of the officers who fired the 50 shots. He said Bell's supporters could demonstrate all over the city, from Wall Street to the home of Justice Arthur Cooperman, who on Friday acquitted the three detectives after a nonjury trial.

Sitting behind Sharpton as he spoke were Bell's parents, his sister and Nicole Paultre Bell, who took her fiance's name after his death.

"The justice system let me down," Paultre Bell told the crowd in a soft voice. "April 25, 2008: They killed Sean all over again. That's what it felt like to us."

It was her first public comment since she stormed out of a courtroom Friday after the NYPD detectives were cleared in Bell's killing as he left his bachelor party.
One of Bell's companions, Joseph Guzman, also spoke briefly on Saturday, saying: "We've got a long fight."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080426/D909P8SG0.html

If this was under Rudy, there is no doubt in my mind that the timeframe for this inevitable dismissal would've occurred in fractional amounts of time.

What I want to know, and won't, is whether when Bloomberg said he was investigating, what % of that was politics and what % was even the slightest bit truth. And how out of or in his hands the matter was during any jury proceedings.

I'd take the protests back to the scene on J-Queens, but that wouldn't even make the news. Just hope the protests were in lower street #'d Harlem. Mt. Sinai Hospital can have traffic delays for a day.

Al Sharpton is painted. Minorities need vocal non-minority sponsors/speakers for any and all forms of douchebaggery, asshattery and cocksmokingness when it comes to the loudspeaker. Especially not Sharpton.