Stamina reducing spell

[Dighn Darkbeam]

NOTE: This is a copy of my post on the official boards. I know some of you whackos dont read those, and I for some odd reason would still wish to hear your thoughts.

After reading the impressive documentation outlining the future of Guild/Combat maneuvers, the thought occurred to me that there are no spells which currently effect stamina in a negative way.

I propose that sorcerers develop a spell that can be used to impair stamina. The extent of which we could hinder a creatures/players stamina is a question of warding, spell cost, and game balance.

There are several different spell effects that could be considered when attempting to design the spell. Here are some suggestions:

1. A block on stamina regeneration dependent mostly on the amount of warding, but with a set minimum penalty upon successful cast (+101).

2. An immediate draining or possible leech of stamina from the target to the caster. Based solely on warding, with set diminishing returns based on Mana share/Mana control.

3. A delayed draining of stamina based on warding with a set minimum duration. Similar to the Cleric spell Interdiction. *Personal favorite

4. An additional cost added to all maneuvers attacks, causing the target to deplete his stamina at an increased rate.

Any one of these or several in combination would afford an appropriate active defense against Stamina based attacks.

-

Other facets of the spell to be considered are where to place the spell within our circle and the viability of the spell in terms of usefulness.

One possibility for spell placement would be a stance position of curse. There are currently several spell-effects of curse that I never use, and I would believe are neglected due to uselessness or redundancy. The two stanced based effects I speak of are the AS reducing and the minor damage curse. (I would have included a more detailed explanation of the two less used curses but Gahread's site isnt working right and I couldnt recall the updated Curse info.) In place of one of those two placeholders we could simply insert one or a combination of the above mentioned stamina impairing effects. Other possible slots this spell idea could replace or merge with are 704 (Phase) and 716 (Disease).

-

When designing a stamina effecting spell one must make sure that it is implemented in a way where there are situations this spell would be chosen over other disabling techniques. If a GM were simply to slip some of the above mentioned effects into one of the stances of curse, most hunters would likely chose mind jolt or limb disruption as they cost less mana. In this frame of thought I will list several different methods of delivery.

1. The spell would not be subject to a warding roll, having an unavoidable effect much the same as dispel or the TD dropping Stance guarded curse. The spells effects would be balanced accordingly.

2. The spell would not be subject to a normal warding roll, and rather be similar to the bard spell of Lullaby. Influences factoring into resulting effects would mainly be a Level Vr Level check of target and caster. Secondary factors could include ranks in the sorcerer circle and previous cast of the spell upon the target AKA stacking.

3. The spell would have a variable mana cost based on targets level and/or previously mentioned secondary factors.

4. The spell would have a TD pushdown effect similar to forget.

Again, these ideas could be implemented separately or in combination to ensure the spell is preferable in select combat conditions.

-

As always all comments, criticism, and suggestions are welcome. I would also appreciate it if Nilven or another GM could give their opinion on the idea of a stamina effecting spell.

NOTE: *Coughs* I guess this means you, Anticore.

Kris na Su'ta

[StrayRogue]

Never happen. Not until Warriors have a way of sucking mana from Sorcerer's anyway. You have enough ways of stopping MA attacks as it is.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

You people are gaining Spell lists. Squares now have the equivalent of offensive, defensive, and utility spells. Its total god damn crap I tell you!

BESIDES Who cares about CvC right? This spell shouldnt be looked at in this way at all, really. The game is never balanced for CvC reasons, so whatever benefit this new spell would have in that arena is moot...Just like the new combat maneuvers wont ever be used against other players. *rolls eyes*

Anyway, I still await fellow sorcerers comments, not some drivel by a Muggle with a pointy stick.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, like sorcerer's aren't getting anything new. My rogue is getting Lockmastery and.....................

[Dighn Darkbeam]

A totally redesigned and expansive combat maneuver system that allows squares access to spell-like abilities without requiring any guild repititions what-so-ever.

[Tendarian]

I smell jealousy and i like it. They have to offer something after nerfing ambush and this seems pretty nice.

[GuildRat]

Um...lesse, you have DC...which returns mana, Mana Leech for wizards to steal mana, Interdiction for clerics that totally screws another casters' day should they fail to ward....I know I'm missing some spells but I'm just browsing..and now you want to take a "squares'" stamina?

Don't take this the wrong way...but shit? How about those of us who play squares just lay down and let the casters use us as doormats?

Shit I can't ward a sorcerer at my own level because he's trip'ed a few ranks of spells, and no matter how much I save points, I'll never be able to trip in CM's.

So you're actually going to expect to get positive results because big-bad killer warrior can now bash your skull in if he can get the first shot off?

Play a square that has to deal with a sorcerer who gets to blast away at him from guarded stance before you start asking for MORE ways to kill said square. You may actually see the squares' point of view.

And yes, I play a square, a cleric, wizard, and a sorcerer, so I know all of the frustrations that go with each.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

As I said, thought partly in jest, I could care less about CvC balance. If I wanted to stop a square from hitting me with a guild attack I would simply mind jolt him.

This is more of an issue when coming to deal with the creatures that are going to be picking up your nifty guild attacks and the ones currently in place. Remember, a square can get enough defensive spells on him to make him nearly invulnerable to creatures his age. A sorcerer can get 1 damn spell by a ranger to aid with his main defensive gap. Otherwise I have to drag around a cleric or a bard. BTW the clerics spell for maneuvers is crap anyway.

I would say all things would be equal in a totally self-cast environment where only the mass spells could be casted upon others, though they would have to remain in the casters group to keep the effects. I know that some of you squares go without defensive spells, but that option is always Readily available and damn effective.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat
Um...lesse, you have DC...which returns mana

Your joking, right? heh, on a 400+ ending roll ward, I get between 1-4 mana back...wooo

-Adredrin

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Tendarian
I smell jealousy and i like it. They have to offer something after nerfing ambush and this seems pretty nice.

Excuse me for being unknowning..but what exactly about the change is "nerfing" ambush?

You don't crit as hard..darn..but a good rogue can remove well over 50% of someones(or something's) DS, easy. So insted of killing in one swing..aim for long stuns (neck, head) and then kill. You still get your crits, just not near as easy.

And before anyone says crits are not easy now..My level 11 rogue can crush stuff 8-10 levels older then him in a single swing..so..yes, they are easy ;)

-Adredrin

[GuildRat]

I get kneebashed by ogres all the time, and I'm almost doubled in CM's.

If combat were supposed to be " walk in, blast critter, walk out unscathed" it wouldn't be combat.

I for one know several casters afraid to hunt black forest ogres for just this reason. Good... I'm afraid to hunt skull temple alone because I can't ward the critters. About all I can do is stand there and get whittled to death, or pray for 2 mstrikes from supplicants to end it fast, because 1 won't do it.

As far as defensive gaps go, a sorcerer's spells are plenty seeing as he's in guarded all the time. If I could swing at my full AS from guarded, I'd never die.

P.S. Try hunting spelless and in offensive, it gets painful.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
Anyway, I still await fellow sorcerers comments, not some drivel by a Muggle with a pointy stick.

My thoughts? I think us pures really need a way to keep ourselves alive from Manuver attacks. Sure, squares have problems with magic..but they can get a few spells to fix those, don't work that way for us.

-Adredrin

[Trinitis]

As far as defensive gaps go, a sorcerer's spells are plenty seeing as he's in guarded all the time. If I could swing at my full AS from guarded, I'd never die.

P.S. Try hunting spelless and in offensive, it gets painful.

I wish people would get this thought out of their head..read the new spells, almost every single sorcerer attack spell does more damage, and is more effective in stance o.

-Adredrin

[GuildRat]

So you'll be hunting in offensive then?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat
So you'll be hunting in offensive then?

Sorcerers SHOULD be hunting just like mages in GS4...stance o to cast, then back to stance guard.

-Adredrin

That is to say, they can choose not too, and take the major drops in damage and effectiveness.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

So you'll be hunting in offensive then? >>

Do you walk around in offensive all that often? Whats this stance dance thing I keep hearing about??

If your caught in offensive you have redux to cover you. If a pure is caught in offensive, we have a nice bumpy drag to town.

The issue of stance is moot. TD isnt effected by stance, and Maneuver attacks hit pures no matter what stance we are in, period.

[GuildRat]

So, <stance o> <blast critter><stance g> no rt?

What fun is that? Hold yourself to a 5 second rt at a min before you change stances back to guarded, then complain about your spells and defence not being enough.

BTW, I'm not busting your chops or trying to get personal, I've just heard this for 7 years from casters while the rogue guild sat on the back burner. Finally squares get some skills and casters want more, more. more.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

What fun is that? Hold yourself to a 5 second rt at a min before you change stances back to guarded, then complain about your spells and defence not being enough. >>

Gladly, as long as I can wear your armor and have redux.

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by Dighn Darkbeam]

[GuildRat]

Do I get your spells?

[Tendarian]

Sadly i agree with Dighn and would support a total self cast enviroment. Wouldnt bug me in the least as it really isnt needed at all anyway. The only time i ever needed spells was when i was learning to stance dance when i first started this game and hadnt figured out tactical retreat sometimes yet.

The difference in ambush,,hrmm ill explain so an old sorc can understand very well (i know you play rogues too i just have a good comparison) Remember when DC and MD were incredible? Just kicked butt and you almost always had mana after every hunt after level 20? Yeah thats ambush in gs3 and your new ambush is what those spells look like now. Do those spells still work and can you kill stuff still? Sure. Is it as incredible as it was? Nope. Thats why you all got FI and FM.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Do I get your spells? >>

Yes, half of them. More if you can read scrolls or have training in MIU.

Where is my cheap skill I can train in to gain defense against meneuver attacks again? Oh yes, I remember, it doesnt exist.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Do those spells still work and can you kill stuff still? Sure. Is it as incredible as it was? Nope. Thats why you all got FI and FM. >>>

Focused maelstrom stops being viable after a certain point as you simply cannot stand in front of a creature long enough to wait for the spell to kick in.

Focused implosion is indeed a great spell, that is why in GS4 the cost for the spell will double for 95% of casters.


<<Wouldnt bug me in the least as it really isnt needed at all anyway. The only time i ever needed spells was when i was learning to stance dance when i first started this game and hadnt figured out tactical retreat sometimes yet. >>

Im glad we see eye to eye. Im not saying its SOO HARD to be a sorcerer. Im saying it would be level all around (not including bards and rangers, semi's will always suck) if the game was self-cast.

[GuildRat]

your cheap skill? Single in CM's it helps...as a such and such train sorcerer, you can't complain if you choose to skip over CMs to trip or to train in something "cheaper".

And, to the effect of half, there's not enough trains before the cap to get the entire minor spirit circle and minor elemental...and still able to anything other than be a freak that has 50 ranks in the minor spirit and 35 ranks in minor elemental. And that's WITHOUT maxing the bonus for targeting. Um so how do I get half?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Tendarian
Sadly i agree with Dighn and would support a total self cast enviroment. Wouldnt bug me in the least as it really isnt needed at all anyway. The only time i ever needed spells was when i was learning to stance dance when i first started this game and hadnt figured out tactical retreat sometimes yet.

The difference in ambush,,hrmm ill explain so an old sorc can understand very well (i know you play rogues too i just have a good comparison) Remember when DC and MD were incredible? Just kicked butt and you almost always had mana after every hunt after level 20? Yeah thats ambush in gs3 and your new ambush is what those spells look like now. Do those spells still work and can you kill stuff still? Sure. Is it as incredible as it was? Nope. Thats why you all got FI and FM.

Yes, but I'm one of those sorcerers that agree both spells where way to powerful. And I feel the same about the current ambush. This is not because I've seen what a rogue can do..its because I can DO what a rogue can do..I have a rogue..I've used the ambush, it is way to powerful.

Also, don't forget to note, that yes, our spells take more casts to kill now..but mana is limited, where as swinging is not.

-Adredrin

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by LordAdredrin]

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat
your cheap skill? Single in CM's it helps...as a such and such train sorcerer, you can't complain if you choose to skip over CMs to trip or to train in something "cheaper".


Umm..saying that to a sorcerer is the same to a sorcerer saying "hey Rogue, quit bitching about magic, you can learn it..so stop training in picking, hiding, and stealing, and learn spells!"

Your saying..that for a Sorcerer to be able to defend agenst attacks..we should stop being a Sorcerer...

-Adredrin

[GuildRat]

I'm in agreeance to some point on the ambush, but c'mon, I'm still in offensive with my ass swinging in the breeze for 5 seconds if I "parry", all you have to do is change stance, wait 3 seconds and prep and cast again.

[Trinitis]

Umm..saying that to a sorcerer is the same to a sorcerer saying "hey Rogue, quit bitching about magic, you can learn it..so stop training in picking, hiding, and stealing, and learn spells!"

The sad part is..a rogue can do that, and still be a powerful hunter..

If a sorcerer drops scrolls, MIU, and some spells, and mana control for CM's, we just killed ourselves anyway..as all those skills add to our DS.

-Adredrin

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Um so how do I get half? >>

You beg for them from other players, get them from scrolls/magic items.

CM training for sorcerers? Even if we were 1xed it still wouldnt be nearly enough to help, not to mention come close to equaling the amount of aid squares can receieve in outside spells.

P.S

<<Also, don't forget to note, that yes, our spells take more casts to kill now..but mana is unlimited, where as swinging is not. >>

You meant swinging is unlimited, mana is not. They will argue back STAMINA STAMINA. There are many different spells that deplete mana from a player. There is not a single spell that depletes stamina. That is where my idea came.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat
I'm in agreeance to some point on the ambush, but c'mon, I'm still in offensive with my ass swinging in the breeze for 5 seconds if I "parry", all you have to do is change stance, wait 3 seconds and prep and cast again.

This is very true..but when in reguards to manuver attacks (sinces thats what this whole thread is about..) Pures are *always* in stance o..At level 83, adredrin STILL gets hit when Glacei shard..and ANY manuv attack to happen in Black Forest, creams me.

-Adredrin

[EmpressBtch]

Well I don't know about anyone else reading this thread....I feel like I've walked into a pissing contest or the mine's bigger game. Excuse me while I go find some estrogen.

[Tendarian]

Both spells and ambush are too powerful i agree. Im just saying you got other spells to compensate for losing the uberness that it was. I dont see it as a big deal that most squares get 2 maybe 3 CML's to play with in return for their overbalanced ambush being made sane.

While swinging may not have limited swings,the new CML will definately have stamina. I spent god knows how long in the guild getting some skills and now even those are being used for stamina. Do i mind very much? Not really as they are neat skills. As long as i can use them decently it sounds good to me.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
Um so how do I get half? >>

You beg for them from other players, get them from scrolls/magic items.

CM training for sorcerers? Even if we were 1xed it still wouldnt be nearly enough to help, not to mention come close to equaling the amount of aid squares can receieve in outside spells.

P.S

<<Also, don't forget to note, that yes, our spells take more casts to kill now..but mana is unlimited, where as swinging is not. >>

You meant swinging is unlimited, mana is not. They will argue back STAMINA STAMINA. There are many different spells that deplete mana from a player. There is not a single spell that depletes stamina. That is where my idea came.

Yes, I noted that and fixed it before you finished posting ;)

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Excuse me while I go find some estrogen. >>

While your there head to the kitchen and serve me up a slice of apple pie....from the kitchen...damned females.

[GuildRat]

Before reallocation I had 21 spells, and all that was worthless to a swinger.

After reallocating, I had 4 spells and was in half plate within 10 trains....but I can still pick any box I can hunt and most that are up to 25 trains over my head.

To be a pure casting rogue would've been great....pre cap, but it's not feasible now.

But I'm rolling with the punches that Simu's throwing, not asking them to give me more than I have.

They're kicking rogues in the teeth so hard my knees are buckling but I'm not going to get pissed about it or ask them to give me uber skill of death....

If you're a good hunter, you won't need any kind of stamina drain, because your opponent will always be off balance.

[Tendarian]

They will argue back STAMINA STAMINA. There are many different spells that deplete mana from a player. There is not a single spell that depletes stamina. That is where my idea came.

Damn foiled again! Hehe and btw no square i know of has a spell that depletes mana? I could be wrong tho i admit.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Tendarian
Both spells and ambush are too powerful i agree. Im just saying you got other spells to compensate for losing the uberness that it was. I dont see it as a big deal that most squares get 2 maybe 3 CML's to play with in return for their overbalanced ambush being made sane.

While swinging may not have limited swings,the new CML will definately have stamina. I spent god knows how long in the guild getting some skills and now even those are being used for stamina. Do i mind very much? Not really as they are neat skills. As long as i can use them decently it sounds good to me.

I don't mind one bit that squares are getting these bonuses..what I *do* mind is these ablities WILL be added to creatures...And its going to screw us pures over even more.

Don't think its happening? Lesser orcs got a manvuer attack sometime in the past year..where they grab your nose and yank it down painfully..not horribly bad to a swinger..to a caster..well, I can't prep a spell now.

-Adredrin

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
Excuse me while I go find some estrogen. >>

While your there head to the kitchen and serve me up a slice of apple pie....from the kitchen...damned females.

And id like a turkey sandwich please.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat
Before reallocation I had 21 spells, and all that was worthless to a swinger.

After reallocating, I had 4 spells and was in half plate within 10 trains....but I can still pick any box I can hunt and most that are up to 25 trains over my head.

To be a pure casting rogue would've been great....pre cap, but it's not feasible now.

But I'm rolling with the punches that Simu's throwing, not asking them to give me more than I have.

They're kicking rogues in the teeth so hard my knees are buckling but I'm not going to get pissed about it or ask them to give me uber skill of death....

If you're a good hunter, you won't need any kind of stamina drain, because your opponent will always be off balance.

Ok, then you explain to me how to keep from dieing via Manuver attacks in Black forst. All 4 critter types have some form of manuver attack..all of them use them fairly often, and most of my deaths come from walking into the room right into a manuver attack.

Walk in room, the ogre throat chops me..I cannot cast, he then swift kicks me and I'm forced to stance o, on my knees, and in RT. Yah, I stand a chance there..

-Adredrin

[Tendarian]

Don't think its happening? Lesser orcs got a manvuer attack sometime in the past year..where they grab your nose and yank it down painfully..not horribly bad to a swinger..to a caster..well, I can't prep a spell now.

I am one of the few squares who can feel your pain here. When i get a wound to the arm or eyes my rt for cocking goes up,if it gets to broken arm i cant even fire my crossbow. I do have the benifit of redux and decent armor tho at least.

[GuildRat]

I was getting your post...regardless of the gramatical errors, we're adults not here to bicker, to discuss :)

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Damn foiled again! Hehe and btw no square i know of has a spell that depletes mana? I could be wrong tho i admit. >>

Rogue guild throat chop. You can also easily get any number of outside spells to raise your DS/TD well beyond the range of like-leveled creatures.

Magical rogues were the same as Pre-DC nerf sorcerers in GS3. Both were overpowered and both got nerfed. Mind you only they actually added power back to DC because they nerfed it so hard.

[Tendarian]

I havent got but one rank of cheap shot but ive heard that that lasts about 5 seconds and takes 5 seconds to do? I definately could be wrong.

The second part i agree is the bad part. All the spells we can get is what makes it unbalanced. Least they are headed in the right direction.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Damn foiled again! Hehe and btw no square i know of has a spell that depletes mana? I could be wrong tho i admit. >>

Also, all you need to do is remove an arm from a player and he will no longer be able to cast, same with a head wound. Now that all the creatures are being switched over to the BCS system, you can stop them from casting with the same method as well.

[Tendarian]

Thats very intresting and ill have to remember that if any caster starts trouble with me.

[GuildRat]

101, 103, 107, 202, 310...um..401, 406, 414, 911, 503, 611 if I missed any let me know and I still can't ward black forest ogres when they cast hand of tonis

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Tendarian
I havent got but one rank of cheap shot but ive heard that that lasts about 5 seconds and takes 5 seconds to do? I definately could be wrong.

The second part i agree is the bad part. All the spells we can get is what makes it unbalanced. Least they are headed in the right direction.

Really though, the duration matters not (but I'll tell ya, the Ogres in Black Forest get about 2 - 3 swings in before I can start casting again.) What it does is throw timing off. If they chop before we get to prep, we got to wait for that message saying we can talk again, then prep and cast...while effectively the person (or creature) that just throat chopped us is repeatively doing SWEEP ADRDRIN. It connects right as I prep, and now I'm in round time. Everyone knows you can recover from sweep faster then a caster can. Now you can simply chop again (causing me to loose the preped spell) then swift kick me into stance o. Now, I gotta get up, into stance d, prep, and cast...and all you (or ogre) has to do is swing. And, yes, critters are not always that smart..but its happened to me more then once.

-Adredrin

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat
101, 103, 107, 202, 310...um..401, 406, 414, 911, 503, 611 if I missed any let me know and I still can't ward black forest ogres when they cast hand of tonis

401, 406, 414, 712, 101, 102, 103, 107, 120, 150, 430, 425. And I still can't dodge black forest ogres when they manuver ;)

-Adredrin

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by LordAdredrin]

[GuildRat]

Ok, then you explain to me how to keep from dieing via Manuver attacks in Black forst. All 4 critter types have some form of manuver attack..all of them use them fairly often, and most of my deaths come from walking into the room right into a manuver attack.

I feel your pain, I get that as a rogue

Viper spit in the eye....5 second stun, reduced stance, charged by a boar, flat on my ass in reduced stance, now in walks ogre of death to wail on me with it's dhara while I sit there banging the enter key with "stance d" typed in.

I know well about the maneuver attacks in the forest.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by GuildRat


Ok, then you explain to me how to keep from dieing via Manuver attacks in Black forst. All 4 critter types have some form of manuver attack..all of them use them fairly often, and most of my deaths come from walking into the room right into a manuver attack.

I feel your pain, I get that as a rogue

Viper spit in the eye....5 second stun, reduced stance, charged by a boar, flat on my ass in reduced stance, now in walks ogre of death to wail on me with it's dhara while I sit there banging the enter key with "stance d" typed in.

I know well about the maneuver attacks in the forest.

Heh, all very true, but at least you to bang the keep with stance d...as soon as the ogre swings, I'm already dead :P

-Adredrin

[GuildRat]

Yea, I get to suffer longer!!! Damned sorcs and their perverse love of suffering ::snicker:: :)

[EmpressBtch]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
Excuse me while I go find some estrogen. >>

While your there head to the kitchen and serve me up a slice of apple pie....from the kitchen...damned females.


Make your own damn pie...I'm busy looking for black mamba venom.

[Trinitis]

I don't love suffering..I love to CAUSE suffering..there is a small, but noticeable difference.

-Adredrin :D

[GuildRat]

ahahah you should've said miniscule difference

[Dighn Darkbeam]

101, 103, 107, 202, 310...um..401, 406, 414, 911, 503, 611 if I missed any let me know and I still can't ward black forest ogres when they cast hand of tonis >>

Your saying squares cant swing hard enough? Im not touching that one as I do not agree that is a problem for them at all.

[Tendarian]

I think he is saying with all those spells the ogres still ward his tiny TD.

[GuildRat]

Not at all I swing mid 400's and that's plenty if the critter's not in defensive.

All I'm saying is that manuever critters are there to pretty much detour casters, as well a casting critters like dogmatists are put there to detour us swinging types.

You could ward a dogmatist all day within 10 trains of it, me, I'd be bound and farlook bait.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Pick up some scroll ranks and get wizards shield, cloak of shadows, ect. By that level you should be more than able to work it in.

[Trinitis]

Actually, casters hurt us (sorcerers) just as much sometimes. The Ogres are a prime example. The casters cast call wind..which in GS3, forces us to stance up, knocks us over, and removes air walls. The first two being based as Manuv attacks :P

-Adredrin

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by LordAdredrin]

[GuildRat]

29 ranks of scroll reading....and those scrolls don't fall from the sky.

[GuildRat]

Call wind is age/maneuver base spell tho

[Dighn Darkbeam]

29 ranks of scroll reading....and those scrolls don't fall from the sky. >>

They will soon enough. Read up on Scroll infusion. Perhaps then you will take your rightful place as human shields for us sorcerers.

[GuildRat]

ahahaha NEVER!!!!

Yea yea, I've heard about scriveners and such and the sorcerer spell...but would you as a sorcerer want every rogue and warrior in the lands begging you to make him scrolls?

[EmpressBtch]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
They will soon enough. Read up on Scroll infusion. Perhaps then you will take your rightful place as human shields for us sorcerers.


Thats my shield and he's a half-elf.

[EmpressBtch]

<I propose that sorcerers develop a spell that can be used to impair stamina. The extent of which we could hinder a creatures/players stamina is a question of warding, spell cost, and game balance. >

I can web, can't you? Granted it won't last forever and a day but it should last long enough for you to get a good enough cast in to stun or maim it fairly well.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

I can web, can't you? Granted it won't last forever and a day but it should last long enough for you to get a good enough cast in to stun or maim it fairly well. >>

Web cost far too much for its effects. Perhaps if it had the added powers of the critter Ver (read Maneuver attack, causes falldowns and snapped wrists) it might be a viable spell.

My idea was to add this as an aspect of the curse spell. It would be used in place of a stunning spell when you need to stop the creature from using a guild/maneuver but may not be able to land a stun.

It could also be used against players, when they dont warrant a stun, though you dont want them shield bashing, haymaking, hamstringing, tackling, sweeping, ect, ect you all day long.

Depending on how it is implimented it could be a useful tool, though only in select situations.

[GuildRat]

Now that's a lucid point to argue to the GMs about.

Why the hell doesn't web have the same effect as critter webs do?

[GuildRat]

And I would have an easier time with that then a "drain" spell of sorts...I mean damn...you ever get slowed?...that friggin sucks!!

[EmpressBtch]

<It could also be used against players, when they dont warrant a stun, though you dont want them shield bashing, haymaking, hamstringing, tackling, sweeping, ect, ect you all day long.>


Nah, those people should just get a limb removed, then pick it up and beat them to death with the bloody end.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Nah, those people should just get a limb removed, then pick it up and beat them to death with the bloody end. >>

Its an issue of balance. Everything must have its weakness. Health can be directly lowered through spells like Pain Infliction, Mana through spells such as Interdiction and Mana Leech. Spirit points can be lowered by several creatures, though that power should never fall into players hands.

Stamina has nothing that currently effects it in a negative way. It is out of balance.

As for Web? I wouldnt mind seeing changes to the spell, but then again I dont want some damned thousand year old empuff with a maneuver spell that powerful. They are annoying enough with wands and soon-to-be Bone shatter (Read rip off of Disintegrate.)

[GuildRat]

Web's CS based tho as it stands for us adventurers.

As for stamina getting drained, the CM list describes how stamina will be drained by the use of the CMs, so they're not truly unlimited. I'm not even sure if you're going to be able to swing unlimited if what I'm hearing about stamina is being implemented.

There's going to be a lot of tweaking going on and, hopefully, Simu will address this in forums like with HSN.

Until they do, we're barking up a wall.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

As for stamina getting drained, the CM list describes how stamina will be drained by the use of the CMs, so they're not truly unlimited. . >>

That is like saying money is not unlimited in that you can spend all of it. Money is balanced by the fact that people can steal it from you. You also lose all of your silvers when you depart, a fact I am painfully aware of.

Do you see my point?

[GuildRat]

I see your point, but I'm not moved to support it.

We'll just have to agree on parts, and disagree on others.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Fair enough, I suppose.

[GuildRat]

We'll call it a draw and lean on Simu....real hard ;)

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Heh.

HEY ANTICORE, still waiting on your opinion of the original idea....

Damned lazy wizards moding over the sorcerer boards.

you have implode you dont need anything else

[StrayRogue]

Let them whine, its generally all sorcerer's are capable of these days, EVEN when they get all the additions and changes they've been begging for.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Let them whine, its generally all sorcerer's are capable of these days, EVEN when they get all the additions and changes they've been begging for. >>

Who started the bitching? Lets see if I can find the post...wait, it was you! Wow, who would of thought?

And Edine, dont be bitter just because the Legion owns you every time you run your mouth. Its a real shame clerics cant rezz themselves.

well in gs4 i will implode as good as any sorc so we will see who owns who

[StrayRogue]

I posted ONE reason why this pointless spell would be made. Ironically it was the one reason GM's would most likely think of. Sorcerer's don't whine? LOL. Read the boards. It was YOU whining about how EVERYONE is getting CM skills, and I stress everyone. Even you can get it. So stop fucking bitching. Want me to stop Garroting you, well lets see what you could do to stop me without this fantastical spell, without doing any protracted damage:
110
118
708
709
715
717
410
435

Hmmmm, that really looks hopeless, doesn't it. Idiot.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

To Strayrogue: I see no gain in arguing further.


As far as the spell is concerned, though I loath all player friendly spells, perhaps this aspect should be applied to the spell.

The spell would only be able to be casted upon creatures, and would not require a warding check to have a negative effect on guild/critter based maneuvers. As a stun is the most effective means of stopping a guild attack, this spell would reduce the creatures ability to perform maneuver attacks for a sustained period. The creature would still be able to cast spells and swing normally. Stunning would be preferable in some situations, this in others.

Thoughts?

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by Dighn Darkbeam]

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by Dighn Darkbeam]

[AnticorRifling]

I don't think a stamina spell wouldn't be a bad idea. I would make it work similar to saturation as far as duration/effect.

Personally I would abuse the hell out of the spell so I can't see it happening.


Nice idea though


Ohh and someone posted about casters being afraid to hunt in black forest. I'm there at lvl 57 and I hunt swingign and bolting. I like the idea of getting hit once and awhile as it stands now I don't get hit hunting things my lvl.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Bumped due to the Editing of my previous post and in response to what Antiore has said.

[AnticorRifling]

I'd like it as critter only to help casters get rid of some of the CM attacks we are so prone to dying from.

And before you bitch too much rogues can chop throats to stop casters.

Make it act like saturation for stamina and hell for shits and giggles if you fail to ward them bad enough have it backfire :cool: