Kramer loses it

[Kefka]

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1772645

Michael Richards, a.k.a. Kramer, spews racial slurs during standup act

Mon Nov 20, 3:49 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (CP) - Michael Richards stunned a comedy club audience by shouting racial epithets at people who heckled him during a standup routine.

The 57-year-old actor-comedian, best known for playing Jerry Seinfeld's eccentric neighbour Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," was performing at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood on Friday night when he went into the verbal rampage.

A video posted on TMZ.com shows that the tirade apparently began after two black audience members started shouting at him that he wasn't funny.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20061120/ca_pr_on_en/tv_michael_richards_4

[Sean]

I suppose this makes having the kramer portrait hanging in my apt a little awkward.

[Skirmisher]

He did totally flip.

[Xaerve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgmCBKPHnSY


YouTube link, I couldn't get the AOL one to work in my Firefox :(

Edit: People are getting owned with Internet Video... between this and the UCLA event. Its so much more damning when you can see what's happening rather than a witnesses account.

[Kefka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgmCBKPHnSY


YouTube link, I couldn't get the AOL one to work in my Firefox :(

Had problems with my firefox as well. It's alot clearer on Internet Explorer

[Jolena]

I just went to TMZ.com and watched the video of both his apology and the tirade he went on in the Laugh Factory.

[SpunGirl]

Maybe we could put him and OJ in a ring, each with a weapon, and they could have a death match.

-K

[xtc]

I watched it on CNN last night & I was shocked. Obviously he was getting aggressively heckled but his reaction was totally unacceptable. Between him and Mel Gibson maybe we need to set up some racial sensitivity training in Hollywood.

[Tromp]

I suppose this makes having the kramer portrait hanging in my apt a little awkward.

Don't you dare take that down!!

[Back]

You know, this really says a lot about the hyper-accelerated media technology in the world we live in. Think about it... this guy does this on a stage over the weekend. Someone videos it with their phone. By Monday millions of people have seen it on the internet. By Monday night major cable companies and broadcast networks are broadcasting to even more people.

The lesson? Don’t act like an ass in public.

[Bobmuhthol]

He was in the right.

[Kefka]

He was in the right.


In what way? I'm sure he'll disagree as those final 15 minutes of fame tick down.

[xtc]

In what way? I'm sure he'll disagree as those final 15 minutes of fame tick down.

Bob is just filling in for Sean2 or Ben

[Skirmisher]

In what way? I'm sure he'll disagree as those final 15 minutes of fame tick down.

Bob just gets a rise out of being provocative at times.

You just let those pitches go by.

[Bobmuhthol]

Yeah, sure.

[DeV]

You just let those pitches go by.Seriously, not giving a fuck works wonders.

To add, ''You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now mother-f***er.

It's only too bad that no one had the last laugh.

[Skirmisher]

It sure would have been most amusing to see him get his ass kicked on video.

[DeV]

I think the fact that the audience started leaving in droves sent a much clearer message.

[Kefka]

Seriously, not giving a fuck works wonders.

To add, ''You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now mother-f***er.

It's only too bad that no one had the last laugh.


Seemed like they were waiting to lay it on him outside. Probably had a police escort.

[Skirmisher]

I think the fact that the audience started leaving in droves sent a much clearer message.

Sure sure, be civilized about it. :(

[Drew]

Someone said "nigger"! The sky is falling!!


Who cares?

[DeV]

David Letterman, apparently, and a couple of other people.

[Latrinsorm]

It sounded to me like he was doing a comedic sort of anger, like when Denis Leary screams at people, he's not really personally angry with them.

I'm a little puzzled as to how people can hear the word "nigger" in a rap song talking about murdering people and not have a problem with it (e.g. making a thread, David Letterman talking about it or whatever) but when people hear the word "nigger" from a comic talking about murdering people it's a huge deal.

[Some Rogue]

I'm a little puzzled as to how people can hear the word "nigger" in a rap song talking about murdering people and not have a problem with it (e.g. making a thread, David Letterman talking about it or whatever) but when people hear the word "nigger" from a comic talking about murdering people it's a huge deal.

Are you really that dense? The comedian was white.

[Sean of the Thread]

Bob is just filling in for Sean2 or Ben

How did I get bundled into that crowd.

[Stanley Burrell]

I like how halfway through his Gibson impersonation he starts changing the -er suffix into an a', because, y'know, you can tell how down he is with the nomenclature of the LA streets :rolleyes:

Shameful :( This isn't some shit that drugs and/or alcohol will loosen an individual up into without a predisposition for fuckery. I wouldn't buy any inebriated bleeding heart stupor excuse bullshit that I'm sure will be used as sugarcoating. Again.

This trouble had been brewing since the second to last episode of Seinfeld what with the Puerto Rican day parade comments.

[Skirmisher]

It sounded to me like he was doing a comedic sort of anger, like when Denis Leary screams at people, he's not really personally angry with them.

I'm a little puzzled as to how people can hear the word "nigger" in a rap song talking about murdering people and not have a problem with it (e.g. making a thread, David Letterman talking about it or whatever) but when people hear the word "nigger" from a comic talking about murdering people it's a huge deal.

It really shouldn't be so difficult to understand Latrinsorm, I think you may not be wanting to get it or something because there are similar situations throughout our society and in everyday life.

[DeV]

If you are asking that question you are way out of touch with today's society, Latrin. Secondly, you are assuming that most people do not have a problem with rap music. And you'd be wrong, again.

[Sean]

I'm a little puzzled as to how people can hear the word "nigger" in a rap song talking about murdering people and not have a problem with it (e.g. making a thread, David Letterman talking about it or whatever) but when people hear the word "nigger" from a comic talking about murdering people it's a huge deal.

I'd be willing to put money down that the people who demanded an apology and protested in result of what he said aren't okay with the use of nigger in rap music.

[Latrinsorm]

Are you really that dense? The comedian was white.I don't see people in terms of skin color, sir. For shame.

In seriousness, so he's "white". You've never heard a "black" comic deride "white" people? Where's the thread for that? Where's the thread for a "white" person saying "kike"?
Secondly, you are assuming that most people do not have a problem with rap music. And you'd be wrong, again.No, I'm assuming that people don't collectively have as much of a problem with rap music as they collectively do with Kramer. In the 3 years I've been here, I don't remember ever seeing a thread decrying rap music. This event was significant enough for someone to make a thread, and 1 > 0. This is why I put "for example, making a thread" etc., as I thought someone might say "HAY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH RAP!!!!".
If you are asking that question you are way out of touch with today's society, Latrin.That's a nice way to get out of having to provide an explanation for what "today's society" believes. It's a good analog for Aristotle's tree; some things are just so and that's all there is to it. No explanation, no justification, anyone who disagrees is just "out of touch" or a screwball. Secularized dogma, so to speak.
I'd be willing to put money down that the people who demanded an apology and protested in result of what he said aren't okay with the use of nigger in rap music.It's not that people are okay with rap and not Kramer, it's that people tolerate rap and not Kramer. It is not a recent development in rap to drop n-bombs all over the place, and even with his recent media exposure rap is more prevalent to an overwhelming degree. It's not difficult to see all the threads Kefka has started, do you see any threads railing against rap? How about from xtc?

[Daniel]

Latrin; Proving once again that he has no concept of the world outside.

[Sean]

It's not difficult to see all the threads Kefka has started, do you see any threads railing against rap? How about from xtc?

No, but I don't see any railing against Kramer either.

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin; Proving once again that he has no concept of the world outside.Aristotle's tree revisited!
No, but I don't see any railing against Kramer either.Maybe railing was an overstatement, but given his disagreement with Bob, I don't think you can possibly conclude it's supportive of Kramer.

[Sean]

I don't see either Kefka or XTC's posts as really condeming Kramer despite their commentary towards Bob's post. Bob posted that Kramer was in the right (I guess in saying that 50 years ago those niggers would have forks in their asses or something). XTC, in my opinion, more or less by comparing Bob to Ben or Sean2 was making a commentary that Bob was mongering for the sake of mongering and my interpretation if Kefka's post is .. how can he be in the right if he apologized and as much admitted he was in the wrong?

I could be off base with both of my interpretations but my point is really that I don't think people really care if Kramer is racist or not (or more/less racist than some rap music). It's just something to talk about around the water cooler (or message boards) and laugh about.

[DeV]

It's a good analog for Aristotle's tree; some things are just so and that's all there is to it. No explanation, no justification, anyone who disagrees is just "out of touch" or a screwball. Secularized dogma, so to speak. Yes, I'm afraid that's about all the response the question was worth in this thread. The N-word is a bad word no matter who says it. (Yes, even Dave Chappelle, God bless him) I'm sure you won't find much debate following that line of thinking.
It is not a recent development in rap to drop n-bombs all over the place, and even with his recent media exposure rap is more prevalent to an overwhelming degree.Couple things. He's not a rapper, and he wasn't performing at a rap concert in case that wasn't already obvious.

If you have a problem with the way the N-word is tossed around like a used whore in rap music you should definitely make a thread about it if it's important to you.

[xtc]

How did I get bundled into that crowd.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were a racist, only that you are one for outrageous posts.

[Skeeter]

I believe Latrin forgot to mention that only rational people think like him.

[xtc]

I don't see either Kefka or XTC's posts as really condeming Kramer despite their commentary towards Bob's post.

I said "...his reaction was totally unacceptable. Between him and Mel Gibson maybe we need to set up some racial sensitivity training in Hollywood"

If I was unclear I condemn his actions!


Bob posted that Kramer was in the right (I guess in saying that 50 years ago those niggers would have forks in their asses or something). XTC, in my opinion, more or less by comparing Bob to Ben or Sean2 was making a commentary that Bob was mongering for the sake of mongering

Bingo

[Gan]

I think Bob was actually referring to the fact that at one point the hecklers called Kramer a 'cracker'.

I have not watched the video so I dont know who went down the 'racial path' first. That doesnt make Kramer's remarks right; however, it does paint his actions in a different light with regards to the circumstances in which they were made.

In the end, the hecklers won because they had nothing to lose from the event, Kramer on the other hand did.

[Tisket]

Letterman vid:

http://www.devilducky.com/media/54087/

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I think Bob was actually referring to the fact that at one point the hecklers called Kramer a 'cracker'.>>

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I haven't watched it, so don't know much other than he called two hecklers niggers. Black comedians do that in their acts all the time.

I think the difference here is that Kramer was using it in a hateful fashion (or at the very least a perceived hateful fashion). He was out of line and it's good he apologized.

[Hulkein]

Looks like he got very pissed off and took it out on the people who angered him. I know people say things they don't necessarily believe if they know it will anger someone they're mad at.

[Back]

Game (career) Over.

Though I am sure he can live quite well off Seinfeld residuals for the rest of his life.

[Artha]

Naw, he's a comedian, not a politician. If he's funny, he'll do ok. If he's not, then he sucks anyway for trying to be a comedian.

[Tisket]

Even though he acted inappropriately in response to hecklers I think he is sincerely contrite. It's a shame that some seem rather gleeful that his career might be over as a result.

[Hulkein]

As Backlash said, his career doesn't matter, he makes a ton off of syndication royalties.

[Tisket]

As Backlash said, his career doesn't matter, he makes a ton off of syndication royalties.

Money isn't the only reason a lot of people work. Especially the already wealthy.

[The Ponzzz]

I really thought this was gonna be funny when I started reading this at work and just something that is too racist for some. But he really did go a little too far. If he left it alone after the very first statement and didn't go in dropping N-bombs like mad, he coulda pulled it off.

I go to the Comix Cafe quite often and I see this shit go down almost everytime. Someone in the audience thinks they are more funny than the guy on the stage. And they just keep going like an immature child until, the staff throw em out. Some comics let it go, while others throw jokes back. Best one I heard was some bitch just running her mouth inbetween every joke and the comic finally says, "Bitch do I come to your job and kick the dick out of your mouth?!" Nearly died!

It's sad to see how the cards fell, but if it was any other ethnic slur, it wouldn't have been taken so badly. Pure opinion there I guess. Feel free to call me a WOP, cuz I got papers!!

[Back]

Defend him if you want to. I wont. I am disappointed.

[Sean of the Thread]

Defend him if you want to. I wont. I am disappointed.

Because you're perfect and never make mistakes right?

I was disappointed that you met with a 13 year old you were introduced to on the internet for a fun filled day.

[AestheticDeath]

Either this guy is as unreasonably horrible with words as I am, especially when put on the spot.. Or he wasn't really apologetic, and was making the apology up to smooth things over.

He was so short on words at times, stuttered alot - and just couldnt figure out what to say. And some of the things were too forced.

Anyhow - I woulda been pissed at hecklers no matter who they are. Doubt I would have gone off on a racial tangent though, as I wasn't brought up that way, even though I must admit that half my family IS racist, my mothers side mostly.

The thing I have a problem with though, is possibly close to what Latrins problem was. Where black people can get away with saying nigger all the time, but when a white guy says nigger - ITS TOTALLY WRONG, no ifs, ands or buts.. If its wrong its wrong.. Black people shouldnt be saying it.. and then expecting others not to use it.

In my short time on this earth, and in a smallish city(100k people?) I tend to see the black people around here as ten times more racially sensitive as anyone else. They use the racial identifiers more often, whether it be calling each other nigger, or calling a white guy cracker - or getting onto a non-black person for saying anything about a black mans race.. African american, black, negro, nigger - Everything will get you in trouble if you try to identify them in any way.

Heh, I grew up calling black people 'brown'. I was, and still am a very visual person. I say white guys, black guys, same as I would describe hair or eye colors. Its nothing beyond a word used to signify the difference in perception.

And I must say, if you dont already know, I am not very widely traveled, or very knowledgeble about many things. I can see where nigger came from, and why its a 'bad' word. But someone tell me where 'cracker' came from?

[Hulkein]

Money isn't the only reason a lot of people work. Especially the already wealthy.

He's 57 years old, I'm sure he can find something fulfilling with his millions that come in every year from Seinfeld.

[Sean of the Thread]

Mmm stripclubs and gambling... mmmm.

[Gan]

Because you're perfect and never make mistakes right?

I was disappointed that you met with a 13 year old you were introduced to on the internet for a fun filled day.

:wtf:

[Flurbins]

But someone tell me where 'cracker' came from?

I always thought it was derived from "Whip cracker"

[Kriztian]

I'm with Latrin on this. I've heard Chris Rock ("krackers"), Robin Williams ("towel-heads"), and of course, the ever-famous Lenny Bruce ("fags," "faggots," "white supremacists") utter pejoratives that are AT LEAST as offensive, and all they got was belly laughs. Sorry. The truth hurts sometimes. And comedy has never been pretty.

For the record, I think Richards was approaching that thin line of offensive - but he is certainly not the first comedian to do so and in the heat of the moment, I can forgive him. His apology was sincere and genuine.

*shrug*

[Meges]

I just think it was a botched joke. He wasn't really talking about black people. I'm sure he was referring to the tired, white waitress picking up drinks at the bar.


Meges

[Skirmisher]

So people are suing Michael Richards trying to obtain damages for his racial rant.

While i think he was actually letting some racist sentiments work their way to the surface and have little pity for him and his now weakened future earnings, I don't see how someone can successfully sue him for the words he used.

[Sean of the Thread]

I don't see how anyways.. when you goto a standup you can expect almost ALMOST 50% of the topic to be based on race/religion etc.

[Keller]

The critical distinction between Chris Rock/Robin Williams/Richard Pryor/Lenny Bruce and what Michael Richards did is the circumstance.

For the former comedians, their pejorative slurs were part of a comedy routine and directed at no particular person in the crowd. For the latter, Richards prefaced his statement with open allusions to lynching and then proceeded to chant a mantra over, and over, and over. It was not part of a routine and was directed at persons in the crowd.

I'm not defending the former comedians for their choice of subject matter and language. I'm just saying that the context of Richards outburst is of uptmost important in distinguishing it as wholly inappropriate from the former comedians whose acts are subject to personal opinion.

[Keller]

So people are suing Michael Richards trying to obtain damages for his racial rant.

While i think he was actually letting some racist sentiments work their way to the surface and have little pity for him and his now weakened future earnings, I don't see how someone can successfully sue him for the words he used.


I think it has everything to do with 1) plaintiffs who don't want to work for a living and 2) lawyers who want to work for a living.

[Artha]

...and 2) lawyers who want to "work" for a living.

[Sean of the Thread]

The critical distinction between Chris Rock/Robin Williams/Richard Pryor/Lenny Bruce and what Michael Richards did is the circumstance.

For the former comedians, their pejorative slurs were part of a comedy routine and directed at no particular person in the crowd. For the latter, Richards prefaced his statement with open allusions to lynching and then proceeded to chant a mantra over, and over, and over. It was not part of a routine and was directed at persons in the crowd.

I'm not defending the former comedians for their choice of subject matter and language. I'm just saying that the context of Richards outburst is of uptmost important in distinguishing it as wholly inappropriate from the former comedians whose acts are subject to personal opinion.

I agree for the most part. I also agree that you can start playing lawyer when you are one.

[Gan]

Smelled like a fishing expedition to me. If the comedian was a no-name poor schmuck then I doubt the lawsuits would have happened.

I'm in favor of making the loser in this case cover opposing councel's legal bills (part or all).

[Asha]

Amusing to see people still laughing after he'd obviously directed his abuse at induviduals and upset them.
I would not have known for sure the comedy act was over had I been there, but I still wouldn't have found it funny.
I don't know anything about his stand up. Is he usually racist in his acts?

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm not gonna lie I would have been laughing one way or the other.

[Asha]

Hehe. You're evil though.

[Ignot]

I'm not gonna lie I would have been laughing one way or the other.

Sure you would have....is this your way of acting "Tuff"?

[TheEschaton]

I'm in favor of making the loser in this case cover opposing councel's legal bills (part or all).

That's pretty much standard operating procedure, that for the loser, the damages actually includes opposing counsel's cost.

As for this, even though A) there's no case, B) most of the defense lawyers who would take this case would have to do so on a contingency basis (IE, they don't get paid unless plaintiff does), and C) there's no case, and Richards should win hands down....if the judge doesn't dismiss the case, there's a good chance Richards will settle out of court just to avoid publicity. That's why lawyers do scummy crap like this - I believe it's 90% of lawsuits that make it past pleading and discovery get settled out of court?

As you might surmise, Torts is my least favorite class. Though it's the easiest.

-TheE-

[Mistomeer]

The thing I have a problem with though, is possibly close to what Latrins problem was. Where black people can get away with saying nigger all the time, but when a white guy says nigger - ITS TOTALLY WRONG, no ifs, ands or buts.. If its wrong its wrong.. Black people shouldnt be saying it.. and then expecting others not to use it.

It is totally wrong if a white person says it. Speaking as a white person, it's not our word. It's not ours to casually throw around.

However, it doesn't justify hurling racial slurs back (cracker) nor does it justify the use of violence (referring to Dev's comments a few pages back). If you really want sympathy, be the bigger person.

[Tisket]

White people taking ownership of guilt that doesn't belong to them is as tired as white people who use the n-word and insist it has no power.

That said, can anyone even think of a white racial slur that has the same dehumanizing effect? Cracker? Not exactly the tnt of slurs...

[Ignot]

That said, can anyone even think of a white racial slur that has the same dehumanizing effect? Cracker? Not exactly the tnt of slurs...

Your right. Might have to do with the whole slave thing. Without white people being slaves "Cracker" just doesn't have the same "oomf" as the N word.

[Jenisi]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a809/a809.gif