The Official Off-Topic Poll

[Gan]

Here it is folks. Let your voice be heard. What are your feelings about off-topic moderation?

The 3rd option needs to have a (somewhat) inserted.

[AestheticDeath]

Depends on the situation.

[Parkbandit]

The last thing anyone wants is threads to go way beyond casual conversation and allow people who's sole reason for posting is to cause interruptions. If a topic is about Democrats winning the house and someone just posts "I like to eat boogers" then clearly this is not an evolving conversation. That is the type of post that needs to be deleted and the author sent a gentle reminder.

This is a far cry from what is currently happening though.

[Xaerve]

I think the last option is great, save trolling and spamming, etc.

[Wezas]

I like to eat boogers


On topic?

[Fallen]

If you want to talk about something else other than the topic of the thread, start a new thread. If there already is a ton of posts before a MOD notices, split the thread and let the new conversation continue elsewhere. That isn't censorship, it is good moderating.

[CrystalTears]

They're not referring to someone going on a tangent that has no link to the original discussion. That would naturally mean to remove or split to its own thread. It's when it goes on a natural course to other topics and it gets deleted. There has to be some kind of middle ground.

[Xaerve]

They're not referring to someone going on a tangent that has no link to the original discussion. That would naturally mean to remove or split to its own thread. It's when it goes on a natural course to other topics and it gets deleted. There has to be some kind of middle ground.

^ Exactly on point.

[Fallen]

As I said, should that occure, just split the thread and let the conversation with the new topic continue elsewhere. Leave a redirect link so as not to be too jarring for those that were following the "Natural course" of the conversation.

I guess my opinion deviates from the norm. I believe threads should stay on topic, flow of convo or not. Even the official boards gets off-topic a bit too much for my tastes. Not to say i've never strayed off-topic before in my life, but I would certainly not bitch were my post moved/squelched.

CONFORM OR BE DELETED

[Sean]

My problem with that approach is that when someone comes into a conversation late and has something to discuss/add on the original topic but that thread is no longer about that topic or they have to wade through a ton of now off topic posts to even be involved in the conversation. I'm all for a natural flow but after a certain point I feel it needs to be redirected back towards the original topic. And who decides that point? The admin and moderators, it's their job and I trust them to do it. If you feel they missed something or have a problem with the lack of REASONABLE action u2u them or report a post in question.

Although I think the bigger problem with threads now a days is that people, myself included, tend to take too many personal jabs/attacks that it derails threads.

[CrystalTears]

And for me, the whole point of these boards was to have a more relaxed and freer atmosphere to post in. Once you start having the same types of rules and restrictions as the officials, people lose interest in coming here.

[Back]

I’d hate to have a moderator’s job on these boards. Talk about a damned if you do, damned if you don’t, thankless job. Even if I thought a moderator was wrong to, you know, do their jobs and moderate, it really does not affect my life in any real capacity.

[Parkbandit]

As I said, should that occure, just split the thread and let the conversation with the new topic continue elsewhere. Leave a redirect link so as not to be too jarring for those that were following the "Natural course" of the conversation.

I guess my opinion deviates from the norm. I believe threads should stay on topic, flow of convo or not. Even the official boards gets off-topic a bit too much for my tastes. Not to say i've never strayed off-topic before in my life, but I would certainly not bitch were my post moved/squelched.

CONFORM OR BE DELETED

Weren't you a moderator for Klaive.net? Really doesn't surprise me you have no issue with liberal moderation and moderating just to moderate.

hey, how is that forum doing now?

This happened a couple of weeks ago where Harmnone decided to impose her will on a topic she disagreed with some of the viewpoints on. If need be, I can spend the next 20 minutes or so and find many, many examples of threads that were left to evolve into something that the original poster never intended. Never censored. Never split into sub threads.


She took it upon herself and completely delete a thread that I started.. because she deemed it not creative enough. This was much like something Klaive did on his boards... to which I called her out on.

I let it go the last time.. thinking maybe she learned her lesson and would stop her power trip. Clearly it didn't happen.

[Back]

Really doesn't surprise me you have no issue with liberal moderation and moderating just to moderate.

:rofl:

[Parkbandit]

:rofl:


LOL.. I so didn't mean it like that... I'm actually fighting on your side for once.

[Fallen]

Yes, I was a moderator on the SR boards. I fought hard against the censoring rules and blatant abuses of power that took place there. I watched many a great moderator come and go because of his and other's antics.

I can understand you are upset about your posts being deleted. I think in my tenure on those boards I deleted all of 2-3 posts which consisted of swear words looped over for a couple hundred lines. We will have to agree to disagree, PB, yet I will do so with far less vitriol.

Finally, to answer your question, The SR boards are dead.

[SpunGirl]

Weren't you a moderator for Klaive.net? Really doesn't surprise me you have no issue with liberal moderation and moderating just to moderate.

hey, how is that forum doing now?



This made me laugh quite heartily.

-K

[Parkbandit]

Yes, I was a moderator on the SR boards. I fought hard against the censoring rules and blatant abuses of power that took place there. I watched many a great moderator come and go because of his and other's antics.

I can understand you are upset about your posts being deleted. I think in my tenure on those boards I deleted all of 2-3 posts which consisted of swear words looped over for a couple hundred lines. We will have to agree to disagree, PB, yet I will do so with far less vitriol.

Finally, to answer your question, The SR boards are dead.


There is a fine line between over moderating and under moderating.

Under moderating will just lead to chaos and a messy board where no one likes to visit because ideas are thrown all over the place. People will leave.

Over moderating will lead to squelching ideas and communication and people will be concerned for every post the make. People will leave.

There is a fine line.. but one that is pretty easy to see if you take yourself out of the discussion and debate and apply the rules that govern you consistently and without prejudice.

[Fallen]

I suppose a better line of thought to travel down is whether the problem you are having is truly with the moderator, or with the TOS. Do you believe HN is acting within the TOS guidelines? If so, do you believe the TOS should be changed?

[CrystalTears]

I don't think it has to do with the TOS. I think it has to do with the consistancy of off topic posts being deleted or moved. It seems to occur more in some topics (such as politics) over others, such as social or general gemstone.

[Sean]

Yea but in relation to this thread, off topic postness, no ones asking you to censor or squelch your ideas or impose on your ability to communicate. Unless your sole means of communication is to have tangential conversations in a thread.

Your other debate with HN about your "creativity" I have no idea about but I imagine its not related to off topic posting.

[Fallen]

I don't think it has to do with the TOS. I think it has to do with the consistancy of off topic posts being deleted or moved. It seems to occur more in some topics (such as politics) over others, such as social or general gemstone. >>

As I said before in one of the (5-6?) other topics with the same idea, one moderator's opinions on off-topic will often differ greatly from another's views. The problem is when one person is an admin, they have domain over literally every thread that is posted.

[CrystalTears]

As I said before in one of the (5-6?) other topics with the same idea, one moderator's opinions on off-topic will often differ greatly from another's views. The problem is when one person is an admin, they have domain over literally every thread that is posted.
And that may be exactly what people have a problem with. The moderator's job is to.. well.. moderate the threads that they are assigned to. An administrator's job is really to make sure that the boards are being run smoothly and step in for situations that cannot be solved by a moderator.

So perhaps they are saying for the admin to leave the moderating to the moderators and step in only when the problem is out of control.. amirit?

[Fallen]

Yes, or to act as moderator when one is taken a seemingly unannounced LOA.

[Parkbandit]

I suppose a better line of thought to travel down is whether the problem you are having is truly with the moderator, or with the TOS. Do you believe HN is acting within the TOS guidelines? If so, do you believe the TOS should be changed?


I do not believe HN acted within the spirit of the TOS guidelines.

[Parkbandit]

Yes, or to act as moderator when one is taken a seemingly unannounced LOA.


Or assign another moderator who clearly has shown the capability to moderate consistantly.. even in the political folder where the discussion or debate may differ from his/her beliefs.

[TheEschaton]

I do not believe HN acted within the spirit of the TOS guidelines.

Ha! "Spirit of the...guidelines..."


You know what you sound like, eh, PB?????


Anyways, did this involve my thing in a thread earlier today? I've been travelling all day (now in Baltimore for thanksgiving).

-TheE-

[Back]

Its all your fault TheE.

[AestheticDeath]

I skipped over the last half of this..

But, what if you just allow the Original Poster, to click something that says:
A) Please moderate this topic so its stays on topic
B) Just be fair, get rid of blatant off topic etc..
C) Dont touch my thread, let it evolve even if someone says I have a small epeen!?

[Back]

C) Dont touch my thread, let it evolve even if someone says I have a small epeen!?

I don't think PB (Push Buttons) would approve.

[Sean of the Thread]

Another outstanding backlash contribution.

[Parkbandit]

I do hope the last 2 posts will be deleted since they are not on topic.

[Gan]

I am officially reporting your post for being off-topic.

May a thousand posts infest your inbox.

[Parkbandit]

Well I'm reporting YOUR post, reporting my post as your post is JUST as off topic as mine.

[Parkbandit]

Weird how only 4 people on the boards voted the way HN moderated today. So much for her pets giving her their support. :(

4 out of 54. Not quite the majority you thought.

[unconcerned1]

Heh. You guys will bicker about anything.

[Gan]

Well I'm reporting YOUR post, reporting my post as your post is JUST as off topic as mine.

Ganalon is informing you that he considers your current posting behavior to be harassment, and therefore has been reported immediately.

[Gan]

Heh. You guys will bicker about anything.

Why does your elf in your avatar have armpit hair?

I'm reporting your avatar for being inaccurate and mis-representative and possibly offensive to all elves who post here on the PC.

[unconcerned1]

Why does your elf in your avatar have armpit hair?

I'm reporting your avatar for being inaccurate and mis-representative and possibly offensive to all elves who post here on the PC.

Haha. I think it's a shadow, I didn't draw it. Ask Dextra.

[Parkbandit]

Ganalon is informing you that he considers your current posting behavior to be harassment, and therefore has been reported immediately.

LMAO.. that's what this place is becoming.

[Meges]

For me, part of the fun of coming here is to see how threads do evolve, the interplay of conversations that don't agree, and "seeing" people smart back at one another. It hasn't really been this way for awhile now, because of a lot of the moderation. While this board is a lot more lenient on colorful language, it really isn't much different than the official Simutronics board these days. It's losing its appeal quickly.


Meges

[Hulkein]

I think the poll speaks for itself.

[Xaerve]

I think the poll speaks for itself.

But does it mean anything is the question now.

[Parkbandit]

But does it mean anything is the question now.

The meaning is there.. will the followup happen and a change in the way Harmnone conducts herself here? I highly doubt it. She believes she is moderating the way she is supposed to and will not change. She certainly won't admit to overmoderating the two threads because that would force her to admit she was wrong.

Won't happen.

My only reason for bringing this to light was to get her to think before she starts hacking away at threads just because she can. Be consistant.

[DeV]

One of the things I view as problematic with relation to posting in certain threads happens when some topics sway slightly off topic to such a degree that posting a constructive opinion is no longer relevant to the debate due to the back and forth pot shots being directed at one poster to another. I find myself reading a couple pages of absolute nonsense, having taken very little away from the discussion before finally losing interest altogether.

e.g. people insulting each other in every other post, which eventually causes the original topic to lose its luster or any real chance of branching off onto another similar subject because it's become a personal flame fest between a couple people who fail miserably at knowing how to get a point across 101.

I voted for #3. Mainly because it already happens with frequency and it is one of the reasons I like posting here.

[CrystalTears]

Oh yeah, I'm all for taking away the bickering and insult. However when it's just something has gone a bit off topic and people yell omg get back on topic, which rather disrupts the conversation even more, I just don't see the point.

[DeV]

However when it's just something has gone a bit off topic and people yell omg get back on topic, which rather disrupts the conversation even more, I just don't see the point.Agreed.

Mainly if the people yelling get back on topic are posters or the OP who wants to contribute further to the conversation and not simply one moderator saying as much. Especially when the natural flow of the thread and any slight off-topicness already has everyone's full support.

[Ilvane]

I think it causes things to deteriorate when there are posts that are made that are completely off topic in a thread.

Personally if I open a thread on one thing and it turns into something on something else, it wastes the time you would have spent reading another topic that would have interested you more.

I also feel that most message boards are like this, they want things on topic so you can have a cohesive feel to the boards..not just bedlam.

I understand the wanting to have "freedom of speech" but keeping things on topic isn't exactly "hacking away at will" either.

Angela

[Tea & Strumpets]

On topic?

This reminds me of the hundred times Wezas started an Elwynn Fury thread only to have it spammed with pink carebear pictures. Good times.

[Parkbandit]

I think it causes things to deteriorate when there are posts that are made that are completely off topic in a thread.

Personally if I open a thread on one thing and it turns into something on something else, it wastes the time you would have spent reading another topic that would have interested you more.

I also feel that most message boards are like this, they want things on topic so you can have a cohesive feel to the boards..not just bedlam.

I understand the wanting to have "freedom of speech" but keeping things on topic isn't exactly "hacking away at will" either.

Angela

If that is the case, then do it consistantly. If you would like me to point you to a hundred threads where this isn't happening, I'll be happy to do it.

Either squelch all off topic posts in all areas or stop treating the political area like your own personal vendetta.

edit to add: Also, I find it funny as hell that only 7.5% of the people who have voted here agree with you and Harmnone. Clearly you are in the minority. But hey.. she's the admin and you are a moderator... so you both are the boss. I'm telling you though.. over 90% of the people who have voted don't like it. that's a pretty big margin... from a pretty fair poll. If it was close.. say 50/50 or 60/40, I'd say you might be right. It's 93-7.

Think about it.

[Ilvane]

FYI PB.

I actually voted the second option. I'm not against a few here and there, but more than that, not so much.

Angela

[Gan]

I find it hillariously hypocritical that Backlash voted on option 2.

:lol:

[Back]

Huh? What? Well its true. I don’t mind a few off-topic posts. I’m guilty of going wildly off-topic myself. Wouldn’t it be hypocritical if I did mind off-topic posts?

[Parkbandit]

FYI PB.

I actually voted the second option. I'm not against a few here and there, but more than that, not so much.

Angela


So how many off topic posts are we allowed in your opinion? 1 per page? 1 per 20 on topic posts? 1 per thread?

Moderate the blatent ones. It's pretty clear who is trying to derail a thread by just posting bullshit. Moderate those. Moderate those individuals who need to be moderated.

Leave the conversation alone though.

[Parkbandit]

Huh? What? Well its true. I don’t mind a few off-topic posts. I’m guilty of going wildly off-topic myself. Wouldn’t it be hypocritical if I did mind off-topic posts?

Backlash has a point actually. It would be like me voting for number 1.

Ganalon, minus 1 point.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by PB
Weird how only 4 people on the boards voted the way HN moderated today. So much for her pets giving her their support.

4 out of 54. Not quite the majority you thought.

Except that her moderation style even in the Draft thread is more inline with option #2 given that there are still off topic posts existing in that thread. That and she only acted once she deemed the thread had gone too far off course.

[Gan]

Huh? What? Well its true. I don’t mind a few off-topic posts. I’m guilty of going wildly off-topic myself. Wouldn’t it be hypocritical if I did mind off-topic posts?

Considering your penchant for going off-topic, I would think that you saying you minded off-topic posts would be considered a truth.

Considering your penchant for going off-topic, I think your voting in favor of only a few off-topic posts inspite of having the option of voting in favor of other options allowing greater off-topic posts would be considered an un-truth, or hypocracy.

[CrystalTears]

The problem here is consistancy. We see that kind of moderation in the political thread. Tell me that the Tsin thread.. pick any of them.. where it didn't go hugely off topic and no one said a word, and wasn't split or encouraged to return on topic. I have issues with that.

[Back]

Considering your penchant for going off-topic, I would think that you saying you minded off-topic posts would be considered a truth.

Considering your penchant for going off-topic, I think your voting in favor of only a few off-topic posts inspite of having the option of voting in favor of other options allowing greater off-topic posts would be considered an un-truth, or hypocracy.

Ganalon’s Theatre of the Absurd.

[Gan]

Ganalon’s Theatre of the Absurd.

And you are my star performer.

[Gan]

Assuming that most of the active posters here on the PC have either voted or abstained; how are the results to be interpreted?

[Ilvane]

I think the second option is the most reasonable. I don't want to be a board gestapo, but I do want some moderation to keep things on topic.

Angela

[Sean of the Thread]

I think the second option is the most reasonable. I don't want to be a board gestapo, but I do want some moderation to keep things on topic.

Angela

We need more mods with your experience on the matter to speak up.

[TheEschaton]

Even if you look at only the last two options, the "let threads evolve" option and the libertarian option, it still makes up almost 60 percent of the votes.

-TheE-

[HarmNone]

I think the second option is the most reasonable. I don't want to be a board gestapo, but I do want some moderation to keep things on topic.

Angela

That would be the option I'd choose, were I voting, Ilvane.

[Ilvane]

:) Thanks, HarmNone, for clearing that up too. I appreciate your candor!

Angela

[Parkbandit]

That would be the option I'd choose, were I voting, Ilvane.


Excellent.. I think we're now making some progress. If we can keep that in mind when we start chopping up threads, deleting complete posts without PMs, CONSISTANTLY moderating ALL topics the same.. I really think we can salvage you.

[Jolena]

Holy pompousness, batman.

[Some Rogue]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/brown_noser.gif

[Jolena]

Actually, I don't have an issue with the posters wanting the moderation to become more consistant. I'm not in favor of any moderator, in any form. So no, brown nosing is not an issue here.

I do however think the whole 'we can salvage you' comment was incredibly pompous. That, does not a brown-noser make. Try again.

[DeV]

That totally works both ways anyway.

I've got nothing to lose and nothing to win in my disagreement or agreement, ftw.

[Parkbandit]

Actually, I don't have an issue with the posters wanting the moderation to become more consistant. I'm not in favor of any moderator, in any form. So no, brown nosing is not an issue here.

I do however think the whole 'we can salvage you' comment was incredibly pompous. That, does not a brown-noser make. Try again.

Then thankfully my message wasn't lost because I intended it to be that way.

[Jolena]

I hope you don't really expect to achieve anything worthwhile by being so pompous and sarcastic with your posts on this topic. I'm sure you realize that people are far less likely to want to change things for you if you are an ass the entire time. The whole honey vs. vinegar thing you know.

[StrayRogue]

Agreed.

[CrystalTears]

Well, this thread may have helped had it not turned out this way. Good luck with it now.

[Kranar]

Consistency can mean many things when discussing how discussions are moderated. Afterall, we could just be consistent at being inconsistent (and many would quite justly accuse us of that).

Oof... already this is turning out to be a long post, so bear with it if you can.

The ideal way to moderate discussions would be as a sort of compromise between the people who are actively part of the discussion, and the staff members who ensure that the discussion adheres to the rules and guidelines of these forums. In most cases, the person who starts the thread should have their intentions as to the subject of the thread be respected throughout most, if not the entire, thread.

That is, if someone starts a thread looking for serious discussion and debate on an issue, then the entire thread should remain in that spirit.

As much as I agree that conversations should evolve, and some conversations are free to go entirely off-topic, I also think that there are conversations which should stay right on-topic because of their nature, and because of the clear intent and impression given by the inital posts. It's not one rule applied to all conversations, so that if one light hearted conversation about hot-dogs turns into a conversation about hamburgers, then the serious conversation about say... abortion should be allowed to turn into a serious conversation about euthenasia.

So, being practical, how do we go about this? At this time moderators simply try and use their best judgement. They go in, read through the discussion, and if they get the impression that the spirit and intent of the conversation is moving off, then it's more than acceptable to remove any of the posts that are causing that to happen. Having said that, I'm a fan of having the discussion itself dictate whether its one that is light hearted and willing to evolve and go off-topic, or whether it's one that is serious, rigorous, and best left on topic and discussing the issue at hand.

As much as many of you guys think consistency is this golden standard, and feel free to disagree with me, but I think consistency in dealing with something such as human conversation is lame, and makes for incredibly boring interaction.

Inconsistencies in how rules are applied from discussion to discussion, while it definitely has the potential to be unfair at times and has some consequences, is much better suited for these forums overall.

Feel free to agree or disagree.

[Ilvane]

I agree to a point, but I also see the merit of keeping things on topic to a certain extent.

The best part of having these boards is to have good and free thought and little moderation. This, however, when a discussion(as you used above) on hot dogs turns to hamburgers, it's no longer a message about the same as it was started. It's not that difficult to try to moderate this, say stay on topic or make another topic about hamburgers, and continue the discussion there. If it persists as off the original topic, then we would remove posts, and encourage them to take it to a new topic once again.

I don't think ANYONE has been saying that the conversations need to stay on topic and STOP. It's more about them staying on topic within that particular thread, and then opening a new thread when necessary when the topic has changed significantly. This is what I would suggest.

Angela

[Sean of the Thread]

Ilvane is the bestest mod ever!

[Xaerve]

Ilvane is the bestest mod ever!

Your Avatar moderates me :(

[AestheticDeath]

Is there not a way to forget about deleting posts unless they are a serious flame on someone/something? Just hide the post so you dont have to read it, but leave it so people who want to can click on something that says 'Heres a deleted post'

If something is deleted, there should be a reason for it. So it shouldnt be hard to PM the person and say this was deleted, and this is why. Or create a new thread with the post instead of deleting it.

Or perhaps give us, the posters a little button to flag whether our post is on topic or off topic, then have a button at the start of topics to hide off topic posts or something. So the people who want to read the relevant things can read those and not the dross, or someone can ready everything if they wish.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm a fan of having the discussion itself dictate whether its one that is light hearted and willing to evolve and go off-topic, or whether it's one that is serious, rigorous, and best left on topic and discussing the issue at hand.A lot of times in a serious thread, though, the initial topic is a sort of shadow or result of a more fundamental issue. It only makes sense to address that more fundamental issue, the same way it only makes sense to treat a cause and not a symptom. Wouldn't you agree?

[Kranar]

Is there not a way to forget about deleting posts unless they are a serious flame on someone/something? Just hide the post so you dont have to read it, but leave it so people who want to can click on something that says 'Heres a deleted post'


It's pretty rare that off-topic posts are deleted period, but this issue can serve as a reminder that it is possible for off-topic posts to be removed.

The apparant overzealousness being assigned by some to Harmnone, from what I gather, is a pretty small and only very recent incident directly affecting 2-3 members.

Granted one member in particular is a well respected and likable personality, it doesn't change the fact that it still seems to be a very small incident shadowing what has been months of relative calm and civility between staff and members.

As such, I can't say I would be willing to invest the time to implement a sort of mechanism into the forums themselves that allow members to declare their intent to staff as to how closely ontopic they wish their thread to be.

It's not a bad idea, however and in general I wish there were more features built into the forums that allowed for better dialogue between members and staff.



It only makes sense to address that more fundamental issue, the same way it only makes sense to treat a cause and not a symptom. Wouldn't you agree?


I'm all for it.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/misc/progress.gif

[Sean of the Thread]

Wow out of touch much?

[Ilvane]

I don't think it's that difficult to send a private message to someone about off topic posts in certain threads.

Why does it have to be a big process?

Angela

[Kranar]

Not so much out of touch as I am privy to statistics. Recently there have been an average of 472 posts made a day. That's 3304 posts made a week. The number of posts removed for being off-topic is about less than 5 a week. There are weeks when it's 0. Thus, you will have to forgive me if I think that a maximum of 0.15% of posts being removed for being off-topic constitutes a rare occurance.

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely understand if a member of these forums is taking issue with their posts having been unjustly removed and wants to bring that to attention. They have every right to call attention to it. What I am simply stating, however, is that this is not a normal occurance, and not something that occurs hardly often enough to warrant implementing new features into the forums. If a mistake did happen, I would not be as quick as some here are of blaming that on forum policy and claiming that the forums are now being run in such a drastically different and tyranical manner. It could simply be the result of an honest error.

This is a big issue not because of the frequency of its occurance, but because the people it involves are well known figures here. If this was someone who was not very popular bringing up the issue of their possibly off-topic posts having been removed, I doubt it would have received as much attention.

I have to take this into account when trying to understand this issue. How much of this is because of a possibly flawed policy? How much of this is because of the people it involves?

[HarmNone]

I agree completely with what Kranar has said. There are some topics that can meander all over the place and will be left alone. However, when someone posts a serious topic, as I've said before, I figure they want to discuss that topic. There's no reason why any poster can't start another topic with an idea that crops up from the original thread. That's perfectly acceptable. Yet, to drag someone's topic away from it's intent is disrespectful, as I see it.

[Back]

This is a big issue not because of the frequency of its occurance, but because the people it involves are well known figures here. If this was someone who was not very popular bringing up the issue of their possibly off-topic posts having been removed, I doubt it would have received as much attention.

I have to take this into account when trying to understand this issue. How much of this is because of a possibly flawed policy? How much of this is because of the people it involves?

Bingo.

[Parkbandit]

I agree completely with what Kranar has said. There are some topics that can meander all over the place and will be left alone. However, when someone posts a serious topic, as I've said before, I figure they want to discuss that topic. There's no reason why any poster can't start another topic with an idea that crops up from the original thread. That's perfectly acceptable. Yet, to drag someone's topic away from it's intent is disrespectful, as I see it.


So.. if I post something that I deem 'serious'.. I can be assured you will step right in and stop anyone from meandering? Should I include "I'm serious" in the title or maybe the first paragraph? Are you the determining individual of what is serious and what is not or is that up to the individual who posts the initial thread?

I think you do a great job here for the most part Harmnone and you put up with alot of shit.. some from me... but it really irritated me that you chose to butt into not one but two threads in two weeks and completely disrupt a conversation by your multiple "Get back on topic" posts, your edits and your deletions. It did nothing but squelch ideas, stop the conversation and make you look like you were carrying out some sort of grudge. Neither of the topics were that far off the original topic and if it was, it was because someone brought up another point of view... another facet... another idea.

And starting another topic in many cases, loses the meaning you were trying to portray. You need the previous conversation and debate to set the framework and from there construct alternative ideas. If we were to start a different topic about every opposing idea.. we would have about a million 1 page threads.

Moderate those posts that are CLEARLY off topic.. that offer nothing to the conversation or debate. Or better yet, have the people you've instructed to moderate do their jobs as you manage them.

Either way, let conversations meander the way they are meant to meander.. even the political ones.

[CrystalTears]

I've noticed that splitting threads doesn't help either. The flow of one idea to the next really makes the conversation move nicely. The minute you pull it out on its own, people lose interest. Most split threads die fairly quickly afterwards. Now if that's the goal, then it's been achieved.

Perhaps leave the thread to flow, mostly for the politics folder, and should the OP feel that his thread has been butchered, he can report and then the mod/admin can step in. I'd rather let the conversation go its own route. Just a suggestion.

[Gan]

I've noticed that splitting threads doesn't help either. The flow of one idea to the next really makes the conversation move nicely. The minute you pull it out on its own, people lose interest. Most split threads die fairly quickly afterwards. Now if that's the goal, then it's been achieved.

Perhaps leave the thread to flow, mostly for the politics folder, and should the OP feel that his thread has been butchered, he can report and then the mod/admin can step in. I'd rather let the conversation go its own route. Just a suggestion.

^^^^

bingo

[Gan]

This is a big issue not because of the frequency of its occurance, but because the people it involves are well known figures here. If this was someone who was not very popular bringing up the issue of their possibly off-topic posts having been removed, I doubt it would have received as much attention.

The fact that issues only getting attention based on the popularity of the complaintant would be an even bigger issue if you ask me.

Regardless of the stature of the complaintant, if a legitimate issue is raised, it should be looked into, every time; and if it continues to occur then attention would be definatley warranted. With those less 'popular' you would see an opposite trend in that they would most likely be unwilling to bring the matter up just because they are new or an infrequent poster. Now add to that the idea that the issue that is happening is comitted by someone with a high level of authority.

But as you've stated before, these boards arent a democracy so you can run them however you wish. Conversely our posting here is just as voluntary. When or if the time comes that discussing topics here becomes a burden, then a lack of participation and or membership activity will be the true indicator. As it stands now, I like participating here and hope that the changes voiced here are given a chance to help continue the utility I enjoy when posting here.

[Sean of the Thread]

^^^^

Thus my out of touch comment.

[Parkbandit]

Not so much out of touch as I am privy to statistics. Recently there have been an average of 472 posts made a day. That's 3304 posts made a week. The number of posts removed for being off-topic is about less than 5 a week. There are weeks when it's 0. Thus, you will have to forgive me if I think that a maximum of 0.15% of posts being removed for being off-topic constitutes a rare occurance.

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely understand if a member of these forums is taking issue with their posts having been unjustly removed and wants to bring that to attention. They have every right to call attention to it. What I am simply stating, however, is that this is not a normal occurance, and not something that occurs hardly often enough to warrant implementing new features into the forums. If a mistake did happen, I would not be as quick as some here are of blaming that on forum policy and claiming that the forums are now being run in such a drastically different and tyranical manner. It could simply be the result of an honest error.

This is a big issue not because of the frequency of its occurance, but because the people it involves are well known figures here. If this was someone who was not very popular bringing up the issue of their possibly off-topic posts having been removed, I doubt it would have received as much attention.

I have to take this into account when trying to understand this issue. How much of this is because of a possibly flawed policy? How much of this is because of the people it involves?

It wasn't an 'honest' error though.. had it been, we would have been given some sort of apology for the oversight and been on our way. I've yet to hear anything even along those lines or that perhaps she was a bit hasty in judgement. So far, all I've heard from her is a couple quick posts trying to defend her actions. I agree, it's not a common occurrence, but it's happened twice in two weeks.. and from my perspective.. for no real good reason except that she can do it.

If we've come to some sort of understanding that perhaps we can let threads take a natural course through the original topic and topics beyond.. then hey, let's drop it and start the liberal bashing up again. :) If this is some sort of new moderation technique or whatever.. then my original issue remains.

Some closure here would be.. in the words of Jeremy Grey... phenomenal.

[Parkbandit]

And googling Jeremy Grey is cheating... if you don't know it, you haven't watched the movie 10 times... which is your loss.

[Gan]

Dont hold your breadth PB. I'm not. :(

[Lassiter 506]

ROFL at "draconian" moderation and wanting closure.

The simplest of all binaries: "post quick reply", or go get your prostate checked.

[Sean of the Thread]

Stfu idiot.

[Parkbandit]

Just when I changed my avatar too.. look who's back.

:(

[Lassiter 506]

FSU for idiots

[Sean of the Thread]

Rofl thanks for solidifying my impression of you.

[Back]

Just took a trip down memory lane in the Rules and Guidelines thread (http://forum.gsplayers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=83).

Bumping this for three pages of comedic hilarity. All of the top topics are also interesting for other reasons.