Sorcerer hunt times.

[VorpalBlade]

Was just wondering on average how long a sorcerer will take to kill a like level'd critter and also using what type of spells across the 100 level spectrum. In seconds would be useful.

[GuildRat]

720....3 seconds

[VorpalBlade]

3 seconds??? Good heavens,you've got to be kidding me. And I take it this is soft RT too...meaning casting RT? Couldn't a sorc just cast 720 and leave the room? (basically preventing any retaliation at all?)

[GuildRat]

No, that focused implosion on one creature with a properly trained sorc.

[Asha]

Any like level creature will go down 95 percent of the time a well trained sorc preps and casts 720.
Seers die in one cast of 719.
Janissaries and scouts (not quite like level I know) dead in one cast of 717.

Like level I aren't really sure since I've not hunted anything level 100 but griffins which usually obliterate with 1 cast of FI (720.)

Anything to do with Temple on Teras creatures I haven't a clue. I only hunt OTF.
And to be honest if I want a creature dead in as little time as possible, say a griffin or seer, I'll shoot it in the eye.
Better success rate in my hunting experiences.

[GuildRat]

As I said.....3 seconds...cast time.

[zhelas]

Was just wondering on average how long a sorcerer will take to kill a like level'd critter and also using what type of spells across the 100 level spectrum. In seconds would be useful.

What the others have said across all trains. 720 3 seconds. Wind Wraiths on Teras were FI candy. Total hunting time 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

[Lucas]

720....3 seconds

Any like level creature will go down 95 percent of the time a well trained sorc preps and casts 720.
Seers die in one cast of 719.
Janissaries and scouts (not quite like level I know) dead in one cast of 717.

Like level I aren't really sure since I've not hunted anything level 100 but griffins which usually obliterate with 1 cast of FI (720.)

Anything to do with Temple on Teras creatures I haven't a clue. I only hunt OTF.
And to be honest if I want a creature dead in as little time as possible, say a griffin or seer, I'll shoot it in the eye.
Better success rate in my hunting experiences.

As I said.....3 seconds...cast time.

What the others have said across all trains. 720 3 seconds. Wind Wraiths on Teras were FI candy. Total hunting time 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

A well trained warrior takes about 8-18+ seconds, hard RT (and leans more toward the latter). This is an open ambush to head crit kill (not always certain it will crit kill). Or about 2-3 open shots or more (assuming 5 second RT swings). This is all in stance offense.

Compare this to a stance defensive 3 second insta kill sorc. I'am not trying to create a flame arguement. I just want everyones personal opinion. Do you think that this is fair? Do you believe that this is balanced?
Please, no flames just your opinion and a rational behind it.

[TheEschaton]

Considering the mana cost of 720? I suppose so.

I don't really have any FI hunting sorcs though.

-TheE-

[Xandalf]

A well trained warrior takes about 8-18+ seconds, hard RT (and leans more toward the latter). This is an open ambush to head crit kill (not always certain it will crit kill). Or about 2-3 open shots or more (assuming 5 second RT swings). This is all in stance offense.

Compare this to a stance defensive 3 second insta kill sorc. I'am not trying to create a flame arguement. I just want everyones personal opinion. Do you think that this is fair? Do you believe that this is balanced?
Please, no flames just your opinion and a rational behind it.

Compare what happens when a stunned, prone, offensive stance sorcerer gets hit to when a stunned, prone, offensive stance warrior gets hit.

Compare the OTF/Teras Temple death rates.

There is a trade off for the increased lethality.

[AestheticDeath]

Not to mention people saying 720.. 3 seconds insta kill are going overboard in some ways.

I almost always overhunt, which means one shot kills dont happen normally. This includes even 1-2 lvls overhunting. 720 is not the ultimate killing spell.

Just like most other spells, you have to be trained properly to utilize it, and it works best on something younger than you.

Im not sure why your warrior needs up to 18 seconds to kill. They have the option to train just like a rogue, which means 3 seconds kills with no encumberance. Or 6-8? for melee weapons. You should be able to aim and crit the head in one hit fairly often. Though I havent hunted much lately.

Basically dont try and get into the argument until you have experienced hunting with properly trained characters of each profession.

[zhelas]

Currently hunting Plane 1 of the rift. Some of the creatures I can not cast 719, 702 or 705 on them unless I curse them first. Even then I don't get instant kills and it will chew up my mana fast. I don't want to animate up there because of the quirkiness of the rift.

Sure I can FI the creatures on Plane 1. I am 69 and they are older than me so I don't always get the 3 second kills. 720 eats up alot of mana. If I get lucky and explode them to bits, I might have loot otherwise all is destroyed. FI is not a friendly spell and can be frowned upon by many. I use it only when I can not hit creatures with my normal spells. Even then it might take 3 to 5 cast at 14 to 20 mana per cast.

[StrayRogue]

It takes me 8 seconds to pretty much kill anything as a rogue. For my sorcerer, it can take anywhere from a lucky crit from MD in a single hit (FI is for poor losers), or up to 15 seconds of plinking.

FI is only the real super fast way of killing. It's not exactly mana efficient even at high levels, so a mid level sorc will find it hard to hunt with the spell exclusively.

[TheEschaton]

I'm glad to see someone still uses 702/705 to hunt. My sorc is one of my oldest characters (and still wallowing in his 30s?) and it took him a hell of a time just to incorporate 705 into his arsenal.

-TheE-

[zhelas]

Sorcerers are the plinking masters!

Channeled 705 is a great spell.

[StrayRogue]

Well, the nice thing about sorcs is the ability to mix it up. You can add Pain, Torment, 705 etc into a hunt pretty easily.

[zhelas]

Well, the nice thing about sorcs is the ability to mix it up. You can add Pain, Torment, 705 etc into a hunt pretty easily.

:yeahthat:

[Lucas]

Im not sure why your warrior needs up to 18 seconds to kill.

8 minimum to 18 seconds. 8 second kill = Lucky head shot ambush. 18 seconds due to combination of botched ambush and regular hits. (it takes at the very least on average 2 open normal shots for a kill...and it's more like 3 ....this is all like level by the way). If your warrior can kill consistently in 8 seconds, you were either drunk and accidently clicked on rogue during character creation or you have no idea what you're talking about.

They have the option to train just like a rogue, which means 3 seconds kills with no encumberance.

Oh yes...back to the old GS3 days. Train like a rogue or be inferior ! And by the way we can't really train like a rogue, we lack shadow mastery and the ability to 3x in hide etc.

[zhelas]

This is turning into the old threads "Are Sorcerer over powered" "Are Warriors Broken"

Lets change the topic a bit. Wizard hunt times? Empaths hunt times with boneshatter? Archer hunt times?

The anger toward Sorcerers really seems to come from the old days of GS3 when DC was it. Sorcerers could tank spells hunt defensive and never get hit. Combat maneuvers? What the heck were they?

Sorcerer's CS. Nerfed since the days of GS3. The TDs against our spells are the highest in the lands. Guarded Curse to bring the TDs down and still the TDs are higher against our spells.

Bolting AS. 111 Big deal. You will never bolt as well as a Wizard.

FI. One must 2x in spell aim for it to be somewhat effective.

Do squares get shafted at times? Sure they do. It is sad that it is difficult for them to have to rely on gimmicks and spells to survive. But that has been the case in GS for a long time.

[StrayRogue]

None of my pures reliably kill everything in 3 seconds (although my sorcerer could). Sure the potential for a lucky crit is there, but it doesn't happen enough times to be considered over powered.

[zhelas]

I have a friend who has a wizard that is 7 trains lower than me. He can up hunt atleast 10 trains easily.

Archery is way over powered. It takes advantage of the bolting AS. My archer can easily snipe creatures 10 trains over his head. With 509 and 606. A shot to the eye. Dead in 4 seconds with his composite bow. Faster if he has a short bow.

Empaths properly trained for boneshatter are frightening. All comes down to warding.

A square mastered in Cmans can own a Sorcerer.

Truely it comes down who can hit the keyboard the faster either in PvP or Player versus creatures.

[Celephais]

Being a wizard I don't often complain about my hunting ability. I accept the fact that CMs will own me and sorcs.

What I don't like is how sorcs can now produce more DS from spells than wizards (and they primarly hunt in guarded). And when they train for spells later in life (post 475) they don't really have to choose offense or defense, sorceror gives them substantial DS increase and CS. But wizards have to choose MjE for offense (bolt/CS), and Wiz for defense.

I don't like it, but I'm not really calling for a change, wizards have plenty of other utilities... all we're missing is to have boil earth be on par w/ other manuever spells at that mana level (IE make it like when mobs cast it).

[Fallen]

If the creature crits and the weapon can be decently aimed, the usual kill time will be as long as their 1 swing RT. Most Archers dont really use setup skills to get their kill as ranged AS/DS is insanely powered.

Rogues can usually ambush past creatures DS for the instant kill. If not, they have sweep or cheapshots. Warriors if they cannot straight outswing their opponents offenses they will have added 3? seconds of feint.

I know a few VERY old Wizards that hunt with Rapid Fire bolting. They kill just about as fast as a FIing sorcerer with higher mana costs.

Clerics/Empaths unless they crit will be plinkers.

Rangers/Bards/Pallies unless they ambush they will be 2-3 swingers on average.

[zhelas]

Don't know many war mages and not sure if there are many in OTF. I would think with 410 or 435 then haste. One could easily beat the heck out of the creatures.

I know Ash converted Shim to a war sorcerer using archery and loved it.

Empaths. Saw this recently in the empath folder. Boneshattering looks frightening. And it can be hunted in guarded stance. For only 6 mana per cast.
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=21770

[StrayRogue]

6 mana is a lot of mana for the first 30 levels. It is also heavily, heavily dependent on lores for the first 80 levels.

[Lucas]

Warriors if they cannot straight outswing their opponents offenses they will have added 3? seconds of feint.

Lucky shot to the head will take 8 seconds of RT min if you feint thats 11 seconds. This again is not consistent, I would say using a flamberge I could outright kill a crittable critter 6 out of 10 times aiming for the head and being around like level. On average if I were to add up a particular hunt's RT, I would average about 14 seconds per kill.

[zhelas]

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the moment one only needs one rank of lore manipulation. I believe Himmy mentioned that the crits really come from having a huge CS.

[Lucas]

Just a quick question. Once at cap do sorcs have to worry much at all about mana? I wouldn't think they do, but any capped sorcerers here know?

P.S. Real question is can they hunt consistently with 720 without having to worry about mana?

[StrayRogue]

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the moment one only needs one rank of lore manipulation. I believe Himmy mentioned that the crits really come from having a huge CS.

You need two ranks at cap. You need to be 1x for the first 50 levels for it to be worthwhile.

[zhelas]

You need two ranks at cap. You need to be 1x for the first 50 levels for it to be worthwhile.

Great then my empath is doing the right thing.

[Rathain]

Clerics/Empaths unless they crit will be plinkers.

Can't comment on empaths, but clerics have 312, which is far from plinking.

[zhelas]

FI is only the real super fast way of killing. It's not exactly mana efficient even at high levels, so a mid level sorc will find it hard to hunt with the spell exclusively.



Any like level creature will go down 95 percent of the time a well trained sorc preps and casts 720.
Seers die in one cast of 719.
Janissaries and scouts (not quite like level I know) dead in one cast of 717.

Like level I aren't really sure since I've not hunted anything level 100 but griffins which usually obliterate with 1 cast of FI (720.)


I almost always overhunt, which means one shot kills dont happen normally. This includes even 1-2 lvls overhunting. 720 is not the ultimate killing spell.

We get more mana return from 719 if we are properly trained.
1x in both spiritual and elemental lores will yield wonderful mana returns
1x hp, sacrifice (loss of 2 spirit with success) sign of wracking, increasing hp to 2x will allow more mana.

Using 720 all the time is just not pratical. 14 to 20 mana per cast. Armor resistance failures. Loss of loot.


Basically dont try and get into the argument until you have experienced hunting with properly trained characters of each profession.

[Fallen]

Warriors if they cannot straight outswing their opponents offenses they will have added 3? seconds of feint.

Lucky shot to the head will take 8 seconds of RT min if you feint thats 11 seconds. This again is not consistent, I would say using a flamberge I could outright kill a crittable critter 6 out of 10 times aiming for the head and being around like level. On average if I were to add up a particular hunt's RT, I would average about 14 seconds per kill. >>

Buh? I hunt with a falchion swinging warrior. She ambushes in 6 seconds.

[Sean of the Thread]

[I]
Compare this to a stance defensive 3 second insta kill sorc. I'am not trying to create a flame arguement. I just want everyones personal opinion. Do you think that this is fair? Do you believe that this is balanced?
Please, no flames just your opinion and a rational behind it.

It's a reward for long hard training.

[Asha]

FI is only the real super fast way of killing. It's not exactly mana efficient even at high levels.
At cap it is.
When I can't be bothered with loot or retrieval of lost weapons, I'll 720 everything I see for a minute and be done.
Same on plane 5 when my character was trained enough not to be feared shitless.
With its added stun to others in the room who can be stunned, it's excellent if you're seriously only hunting for experience.

[zhelas]

it's excellent if you're seriously only hunting for experience.

very true

[AestheticDeath]

They have the option to train just like a rogue, which means 3 seconds kills with no encumberance.

Oh yes...back to the old GS3 days. Train like a rogue or be inferior ! And by the way we can't really train like a rogue, we lack shadow mastery and the ability to 3x in hide etc.

You dont even have to have hiding, much less shadow mastery. All you need is the bow skill, and warriors can get exactly the same AS as a rogue.

Ambush is a viable option for warriors, more viable than MOC in my opinion. Though I havent used MOC much, due to large round times. So if not ambush, MOC, or archery, are you saying all you do with your warrior is open unaimed swinging? C'mon. Rogues are better then warriors at ambushing from hiding, for the DS push down, or what used to be the crit. But as a warrior you dont need to hide, just use a claidh, or two weapon combat. And aim, from the open.

[Asha]

THW ambushing Rogue from hiding, for the ween.
That's how I rock mine.

[TheEschaton]

My 19ish train rogue does exactly that. He pwns. I hear it gets to be overkill (and thus a waste of points) later on.

-TheE-

[zhelas]

Love my two weapon warrior. Though RT hurts.

[Asha]

If your twc warrior RT hurts, you're doing it shit.

[zhelas]

If your twc warrior RT hurts, you're doing it shit.

Nah he swings both weapons in about 5 seconds.. if he mstrikes it at 7 or 8

[Lucas]

The fastest way a warrior can kill something (without copying a rogue) is to open ambush for a vital against a crittable critter. After using both OHE, THE, and polearms by far the best combination is either THE (maul hopefully crit weighted) or claidh. In all however, it takes about 8 seconds for a giantman warrior and 7 seconds etc for the other races to open ambush. After keeping track of each of my hunts and the RT per kill, I come up with around 14 seconds per kill (+/- some odd decimals).

Bows may or may not consistently kill in 4 seconds or whatever, I don't know how this works mainly because I've never trained one. But the fact stands, why must I play a bow user in order to become on par with other professions killing ability? In a fantasy game, the inferiority of playing the classic Conan the barbarian Claidh wielding warrior confounds me. I guess my question then becomes, Why do the GM's hate warriors? Are we just not cool?

[zhelas]

When I made my warrior I knew I was going to die alot.. hell being in the thick of things. The thing that pisses me off the most about them is the guild. Hell I hate guild work period whether it is warrior, rogue or sorcerer.

Straight from Lord Commandant (whatever happen to him?)

Warriors are the neediest bunch of em all. No spells, no lore, no picking (ill get to bashing later), no
healing, no rezzing--just bad smell and nice ASs. (or so the ladies tell me) Hopefully this book will
help you maximize your versatile blood crazed warrior a bit. This guide is meant to help the one
handed warrior start quickly and begin to maximize around year 25

The number one thing to survive as a warrior is to have friends. So ya prefer to hunt by yerself eh and
ya don't like makin friends? Ya shoulda been a sorcie then. Well imagine yerself at age 38, a nice AS
of 273, a DS of 121 (that is with +25 brig and +30 shield) and not being able to hunt anything at all
without running to a empath all the time. That's the life of a warrior. So let me be more specific, drag
a lot (not yer knuckles dummy, dedders!), give away wands a lot, tip well, hug a lot, be friendly, tell
jokes, buy beer, do anything to endure yerself to others. At my age, I cant even hunt Krolvin Warriors
without spells

[Lucas]

When I made my warrior I knew I was going to die alot.. hell being in the thick of things. The thing that pisses me off the most about them is the guild. Hell I hate guild work period whether it is warrior, rogue or sorcerer.

Straight from Lord Commandant (whatever happen to him?)

Warriors are the neediest bunch of em all. No spells, no lore, no picking (ill get to bashing later), no
healing, no rezzing--just bad smell and nice ASs. (or so the ladies tell me) Hopefully this book will
help you maximize your versatile blood crazed warrior a bit. This guide is meant to help the one
handed warrior start quickly and begin to maximize around year 25

The number one thing to survive as a warrior is to have friends. So ya prefer to hunt by yerself eh and
ya don't like makin friends? Ya shoulda been a sorcie then. Well imagine yerself at age 38, a nice AS
of 273, a DS of 121 (that is with +25 brig and +30 shield) and not being able to hunt anything at all
without running to a empath all the time. That's the life of a warrior. So let me be more specific, drag
a lot (not yer knuckles dummy, dedders!), give away wands a lot, tip well, hug a lot, be friendly, tell
jokes, buy beer, do anything to endure yerself to others. At my age, I cant even hunt Krolvin Warriors
without spells

-zhelas

Essentially, what you're saying with this is, "You should've known that warriors sucked before you picked them, so it's all your fault." To be blunt, there is some truth to this. And if GS was a free game I would be ok with it. But GS is NOT free, it costs money, my money. The amount of money I pay directly correlates with time. When the profession I play is mechanically hampered (in terms of time versus gain) relative to other professions, it feels like someone is reaching into my pockets and cheating me. Thats just how I personally feel, perhaps others feel differently which is perfectly fine. But, thats my beef with all this.

[zhelas]

A warrior's life is much better than it was in the earlier days of gs3. No guild.. no redux.. My warrior does fine. yep he needs spells, gimmicks and tactics. Cmans will help. Stamina is limited so is mana.

[AestheticDeath]

If you dont like it, play another profession. I dont play warriors because ... they are boring. They dont have anything I like, except redux. I can get redux with a rogue. And get all the skills I like cheaper.

Why do you HAVE to play a warrior?

Honestly, I play the game as it is, because I have absolutely no other option. I cant change the game. No one gives a flying fuck what my opinion is, most especially not Simu. Its play it like it is, wait for it to get better hopefully, play something else. Or possibly get into a position as a GM or some such so that you can affect the changes you think need to be brought about. Of course then the game is ruined because you have all the inside information, and you just already mess with it too much.

If you think sorcerers have it easy(they do in some ways) and you like that... play a sorcerer.

[Lucas]

If you dont like it, play another profession.

Thats what I'm trying to say. If this was a free game I can understand I have no say and thus I should just play another profession...essentially if you don't like it, tough. But when I'm paying per month more then my cable bill, I expect some changes or at the very least some kind of regular communication.

[Methais]

If you dont like it, play another profession.

Thats what I'm trying to say. If this was a free game I can understand I have no say and thus I should just play another profession...essentially if you don't like it, tough. But when I'm paying per month more then my cable bill, I expect some changes or at the very least some kind of regular communication.

Except that won't happen, so you'll just have to deal with it. No offense.

[Lucas]

Except that won't happen, so you'll just have to deal with it. No offense.

None taken.Alas, I should probably look for another game.(heard WoW warriors are quite attractive to play). Problem is all my friends are on this bloody game...hmmm.

[zhelas]

Rangers are quite balanced. Nice combination of spells and offense. They are the best bounty hunters.

[Artha]

Get them to move with you or make new friends.

WoW warriors are pretty fun.

[zhelas]

GS Warriors are better than they were. Still not saying much. Atleast they do have guild. I can't imagine what it was like before the guild came out. I think most joined voln so they could be the "Paladins"

[budartagnan]

GS3 warriors were rough to play. very rough. I had a ~60th level warrior that I rerolled into a cleric down the road since I was so frustrated with being a warrior. There wasn't any fun in it, and my hunts consisted of this. (pre redux, pre guild)

-Send mana for spells (thankfully had full mana share) to sorcerer friends
-hide and ambush since my AS was lame compared to a like aged bard, though my hide and ambush was weak too compared to a rogue
-hope not to get hit since I would get rocked
-pray

Once guild and redux came around, it became a lot easier. I ultimately rerolled when I could go into troll kings, wearing nothing but my masterfully damage padded plate, and hunt all day long as long as I could use staunching and avoid the harbs. I'd take 2-4 damage from +400 end rolls and just chug along, not even stance dancing. I think padding and redux have both been reduced since then, but those were the glory days...

[AestheticDeath]

Play a cleric. They can still be great at swinging from the open, but they have a more viable defense, and all the side qwerks. Raising people etc.

Are you just stuck on warriors? Have you tried playing something else?

[Lucas]

Are you just stuck on warriors? Have you tried playing something else?

I do play other professions and unfortunately I play other professions then warriors currently. My quarrel with warriors has evolved from just profession gameplay to an almost philosophical and perhaps moral arguement.

Personally, I have always leaned toward supporting the "underdog" and thus my sticking it out with warriors.

Finally, I just don't understand why they like to ignore warriors, at least relative to some other professions. There is a problem with this profession in terms of it's entertainment value, fix it or at least communicate with the players. I believe Warriors can be great fun and can fit a specific unique niche for a particular player. They don't have to be relegated to the "you're new, test character" bin.