The Best Killing Profession.

[Boris]

Ok I need to make a profession that can kill the fastest with dying the least against the majority of the critters for levels 100+ (meaning a capped character w/ all capped skills). If you can list them out in order that would be great too.

My guess:

1.) Sorcerer tied with Rogue
2.) Paladin and Bard
3.) Ranger
4.) Wizard
5.) Cleric
6.) Empath
7.) Think thats it....

[GS4-D]

There is no capped character with all capped skills currently. And besides, having all capped skills won't make you any better of a hunter than having your core hunting skills capped.

[Asha]

This again..

And empaths need to be bumped up one place.

[Boris]

And besides, having all capped skills won't make you any better of a hunter than having your core hunting skills capped.

Ha, go tell Soulpieced and his insane Bard Lores that.

[Sean of the Thread]

And besides, having all capped skills won't make you any better of a hunter than having your core hunting skills capped.

Ha, go tell Soulpieced and his insane Bard Lores that.

read

<<won't make you any better of a hunter than having your core hunting skills capped.>>

[Boris]

read

<<won't make you any better of a hunter than having your core hunting skills capped.>>

Lores do not equal "core hunting skills". For instance, teleporting to your hunting destination can make for faster killing, air lores can help in one form of killing, but isn't a neccesarily a "core hunting skill" for a bard. I think he's trying to imply that a 100th level character that has maximized his training path from 0-100th level is not so much different in killing proficiency then a 100th+ character with max'ed training path plus most of his auxiliary skills maxed. I believe otherwise however.

[Kelcie]

Empaths need to be bumped up a WHOLE lot.

I can hunt the temple with my capped path for an hour or longer on the amount of mana she has (+ wracking) and survive 99% of the time. She can kill most of them in 2-3 hits at 6 mana per (11 for fire) totaling about 9 seconds per kill. She can also weigh herself down with so much loot she cant pick anything else up.

[Lassiter 506]

As a longtime player of a cleric, I'd rank clerics dead last in fastest killing. When empaths have 1106 nerfed and have to use 1115 instead, they'll be tied for clerics as last. That said, the discussion was about fastest killing. However, regarding the frequency of deaths - hunting a cleric is so safe, that my cleric rarely dies. This also makes it so boring that I've hunted with both hands empty for the past several months. Yet still, he rarely dies.

Not sure if you omitted warriors on purpose, but I'd rank them one above clerics and empaths. They represent the other extreme in defense - clerics for spell defense and maneuver defense in pures, and warriors for physical defense among squares.

[Numbers]

Will empaths be as good once bone shatter is nerfed?

[Kembal]

At upper levels? No, we doubt it. Price we're paying so we don't have to train in Manipulation Lore so much to make the spell useful. But we've got no idea what 1115 is either.

Lower levels, 1106 is supposed to become much better and viable as an attack spell.

[Sean]

How was it taking you along time to kill stuff as a cleric? 317 is a very effective killing tool.

[GuildRat]

Ok I need to make a profession that can kill the fastest with dying the least against the majority of the critters for levels 100+ (meaning a capped character w/ all capped skills). If you can list them out in order that would be great too.

My guess:

1.) Sorcerer tied with Rogue
2.) Paladin and Bard
3.) Ranger
4.) Wizard
5.) Cleric
6.) Empath
7.) Think thats it....

9 seconds per kill on average as a rogue....add in redux and max out the ability to wear spells and rogues are a good choice. Still not the fastest nor the most invulnerable to death.

Rogues tend to suffer in swarms much more than pures that can cast from guarded stance, but do better against maneuvers.

Again, it all depends on the training of any of the characters.

[jpatter123]

has much as I hate to say it out of fear of nerfdom. I have played every char class from 0 to 100 (well passed 100 in GSIII in some classes) nothing kills faster then a rogue and dies less. But it appears to me it all depends on what you hunt with the way gemstone is set up. Some creatures respond well to crits others are impossible. Every person that sees my rogue snipe whispers to me that they are re-training. EDIT - I shouldn't say dies less then all classes but I rarely ever die as a rogue and when I do its usually a mistake I made.
If you like incant hunting single spell i'd put empaths much much higher. Fully spelled capped emapth can't be hit with ranged, melee, or spell. And really avoid manuevers pretty well. Thanks to trolls blood even when you do get manuevered alot of time you can break the stun. incant 1106 loot incant 1106 loot incant 1106 loot.. Pretty boring though but can't be any easier.(cept as stated before , there are enough creatures in the game that can't be shattered making being a empath somewhat annoying at times.)
I think you got wizards pretty good for young ones ,capped ones however can be pretty awesome if they are trained right for immolition.
Spell burst tries to even the playing field for us rogues but with shadow mastery I just live in hiding now. Redux takes care of the pulls most of the time , but it does get annoying that one hand injury and your done bow hunting.
I think the funnest char class to play is Bards. If I was gunning for a capped char I'd be thiking rogue or bard for #1 spot. Empaths #2.

[jpatter123]

How was it taking you along time to kill stuff as a cleric? 317 is a very effective killing tool.

I play my friends 70'ish cleric at times.. Either he's trained piss poor or I don't know how to use him. Of course he learns nough from raising that we don't even bother hunting him.

[Sean]

Well it for the most part will take any poorly trained profession longer to kill, not just clerics. 317, 312, and 302 are all good quick killing tools especially in this scenario of capped + additional skills (max religion lore for example)

[Boris]

Oh yeah I forgot warriors. Hmm, I don't really know how fast a warrior can kill, I would say 10 seconds at the fastest (couple of swipes with a claidh or similar heavy weapon). In terms of warrior defensive, a DFREDUXed out warrior would be nearly invulnerable to physical attacks, couple that with all the TD boosting spells possible and they can be formidable...I would put them above clerics and empaths.

[GuildRat]

Oh yeah I forgot warriors. Hmm, I don't really know how fast a warrior can kill, I would say 10 seconds at the fastest (couple of swipes with a claidh or similar heavy weapon). In terms of warrior defensive, a DFREDUXed out warrior would be nearly invulnerable to physical attacks, couple that with all the TD boosting spells possible and they can be formidable...I would put them above clerics and empaths.

The problem with "most" warriors is that they concentrate on the physical side of training.

A capped warrior that's maxed in arcane symbols and MIU and dabbled in hiding and ambush would be awesome for the spells they'd be able to wear in spell burst areas and the ability to be unseen.

[GS4-D]

Best combo, I would say..is a rogue and a wizard. Rogue being hasted, wouldn't take more than 2 seconds to kill something. If you need crowd control the wizard takes care of that. Hell, ask Tsin, he works that combo perfectly.

[GuildRat]

Best combo, I would say..is a rogue and a wizard. Rogue being hasted, wouldn't take more than 2 seconds to kill something. If you need crowd control the wizard takes care of that. Hell, ask Tsin, he works that combo perfectly.

agreed

[Lassiter 506]

How was it taking you along time to kill stuff as a cleric? 317 is a very effective killing tool.

317 is quite effective. My cleric has a sustained 510 spiritual casting strength, and can be bumped to 570+ with a few tricks, including spirit slayer. It's not a question of killing in seconds, but being able to maintain the killing spree over a longer duration. If I wanted to fry and escape unscathed (such as during XXX learning), I run spirit slayer non stop - and quite a few times, I don't fry completely. There is always a speed/cost sacrifice. For clerics running 240 and 317/302, you'll shine high and bright, and burn out just as fast.

[Lassiter 506]

ncant 1106 loot incant 1106 loot incant 1106 loot..

This is what is going to make me laugh my ass off. People like Snowie might actually have to learn hunting tactics once their spell list receives a few changes.

[Latrinsorm]

I have played every char class from 0 to 100Do you mean GSIV 100 or GSIII 100, as an aside?

[Sean]

317 is quite effective. My cleric has a sustained 510 spiritual casting strength, and can be bumped to 570+ with a few tricks, including spirit slayer. It's not a question of killing in seconds, but being able to maintain the killing spree over a longer duration. If I wanted to fry and escape unscathed (such as during XXX learning), I run spirit slayer non stop - and quite a few times, I don't fry completely. There is always a speed/cost sacrifice. For clerics running 240 and 317/302, you'll shine high and bright, and burn out just as fast.

I never had any mana problems but again this scenario is max skills so you'd have 3x HP most likely and assuming non voln wracking. I can't see mana being a big issue. Then again I never bothered with 240.

[Sean of the Thread]

The clerics are what we thought they were..we played them in GSIII.. who the hell takes a hunt in GSIII like it's bullshit.. BULLSHIT. THE CLERICS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!! AND THAT'S WHY WE TAKE THEM HUNTING.. If you want to use 317 with their ass THEN USE 317 WITH THEIR ASS.

[Asha]

Empaths need to be bumped up a WHOLE lot.

I can hunt the temple with my capped path for an hour or longer on the amount of mana she has (+ wracking) and survive 99% of the time. She can kill most of them in 2-3 hits at 6 mana per (11 for fire) totaling about 9 seconds per kill. She can also weigh herself down with so much loot she cant pick anything else up.

Not sure wether this was supposed to make empaths (your empath) sound good?
If a capped anything dies in the temple, ever, then that's weak.
Kill anything there in 2-3 hits as a capped character and again, it's fairly weak.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Denny Green

The clerics are what we thought they were..we played them in GSIII.. who the hell takes a hunt in GSIII like it's bullshit.. BULLSHIT. THE CLERICS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!! AND THAT'S WHY WE TAKE THEM HUNTING.. If you want to use 317 with their ass THEN USE 317 WITH THEIR ASS.

CROWN THEIR ASS
/punch microphone

[vontez]

lol nice cardinals coach rage reference. +5 points.

[Stretch]

During a sixteen minute hunt, my rogue will go through between 90 and 130 creatures, depending on how lazy I am with finding stuff. That's with haste.

Since I started haste hunting, I've been getting anywhere from 85k to 110k fame a hunt. If I bothered hunting for 45 minutes an hour and picking the other 15 minutes I could probably pull in close to 400k. It gets old REALLY fast though. I'm not sure how Tsin hasn't gone insane, since he's done that for the last 10m+ experience; I've done it for like two weeks and it's boring as crap.

On the other hand, my rogue at 9.2M experience hunts with a self-cast DS of close to 400 and even without haste can fire an aimed longbow in three seconds to the eye.

In terms of speed, I'd still take a wizard over a rogue just because cone is great in swarms, and if OTF does one thing it's swarm.

[Asha]

On the other hand, my rogue at 9.2M experience hunts with a self-cast DS of close to 400

In offensive right?

[Stretch]

Yeah. Usually I hunt with 101, 103, 107, 202, 414 and 503, which packs on like an extra 80 DS.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm not sure how Tsin hasn't gone insane, since he's done that for the last 10m+ experience




$$$$$$ and Scripts

[Kelcie]

Not sure wether this was supposed to make empaths (your empath) sound good?
If a capped anything dies in the temple, ever, then that's weak.
Kill anything there in 2-3 hits as a capped character and again, it's fairly weak.



I was refering to the temple on Teras. The capped hunting area. They void, they drown you. Death is unavoidable there at times for ANYONE. Especially when you swim up with a 3 sec RT empty handed and laying down, to see an executioner lop your head off.

[Asha]

That's a relief. heh.

[zhelas]

Personally I think is what you train in. Archery and sniping by far is the best in killing. The Rogue or Ranger shooting from the shadows and the one shot kills to the eye is way over powered. You don't suffer AS penalties from being weighted down. You don't suffer the height problems that regular ambushers have. You can hunt for as long as you like as long as your arms and hands don't get broken. The DS for using ranged weapons is insane.

Grant it my ranger is only 47 but he hunts better than my Sorcerer who is 20+ trains his elder. The Ranger or Rogue archer accompanied by a wizard or sorcerer while hunting makes it so easy for the sniper when you ewave the creatures to the ground.

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah archers are pretty good, I just cant stand losing arrows all the time.

[Sean of the Thread]

Sorc for the MFW

[zhelas]

Yeah archers are pretty good, I just cant stand losing arrows all the time.

Sunburst and no hidden arrows. True, losing arrows stink, but heck between hunts make arrows. I know I have seen some pretty handy arrow making scripts here on PC.

The biggest pain I have about arrows is when you gather them and they are out of reach.

[Asha]

Sorc for the MFW
Completely. Rogues are my second bet.

[zhelas]

Sorcerers can do the quick kills (ie Focused Implode). Rangers are the best in all around balance. They make the best bounty hunters. Foraging, Skinning, Rescues and guarding Merchants while taking them between town. Two words, Mass Calm.

Sure they don't have the highest AS in the game but with their spells they can easily take down a creatures DS by quite a bit.

[Necromancer]

I still maintain that for mass death, no profession parallels a well-trained high level sorcerer. Between abyran'sa demons, high level animates, scroll infusion, implosion, and evil eye I'd say very few are safe from a sorcerer who plans ahead. No other profession can track a hidden or invisible person and then kill them from a distance in the middle of town without a fine ;)

[Daniel]

Rangers are pretty pimp, especially with Voln fu, but it looks like that got wtfpwned in this new area.

[Boris]

From the best Profession (hunting wise) to the least.

1.) Rogue Or Sorcerer
2.) Ranger
3.) Wizard
4.) Paladin
5.) Empath
6.) Cleric
7.) Warrior

[zhelas]

Bard? I don't play one but I was wondering where they would fit in the list.

[Boris]

Ooops ok list is...

1.) Rogue Or Sorcerer
2.) Ranger
3.) Wizard or Bard
4.) Paladin
5.) Empath
6.) Cleric
7.) Warrior

[Sean of the Thread]

1 sorc
2 sorc
3 sorc
4 sorc
5 sorc
6 sorc
7 sorc

[Necromancer]

Bards are Gemstone's best kept secret in many regards. People think Bard, they think "Loresinging" and gem purifying.

No, they're friggin' power hunters who can generate a massive AS, a second attack, spell you into oblivion....and it can all be done with decreased RT on their part <g>

[Soulpieced]

It's a moot conversation because any profession can become pretty uber past 12/13 million experience.

[Sean of the Thread]

Seriously bards should get their respect.. they are mean. They're not sorcs but they are very mean.

[Xaerve]

A rogue can dance all day though.... ;)

[stallion4]

Not to go toooo far off subject..but just wondering..Who is the person with the most actual EXP? I recall the real old farts from before the "upgrade" Jadall, Angellissa, Drizzsdt. They up there? Just sparked a question from the post Soulpieced put up there..

[Soulpieced]

Seriously bards should get their respect.. they are mean. They're not sorcs but they are very mean.

No, but my CS is higher than more than a handful of sorcerers hunting in OTF. I'll take 1030 DF over any sorcerer spell any day of the week.

[Stretch]

Active characters with close to or over 12m exp (off the top of my head):

Tsin
Naseer
Soulpieced
Drizzsdt
Vrannar
Snowie
Atlanteax (?)
Ariyel (?)
Malok

[bubbauno]

The only two people over 20m are Drizz and I.. Drizz has like 20 and change, only because he doesn't play that much anymore.. I'm currently at 21.7m experience

Edited to add: Drizz would have way more if he played, he had a HUGE head start remember.

[stallion4]

Didn't know Drizzsdt was still active. Thanks for the names. I wonder if the empath I sold at around level 150ish before the change is up there in exp. I know she's still around. Been sold a few times since I originally sold her though..ah well..maybe I'll run into her sometime.

[bubbauno]

I owned Angellisa for a while and she only had 13m and change, which is nothing now.

[stallion4]

The only two people over 20m are Drizz and I.. Drizz has like 20 and change, only because he doesn't play that much anymore.. I'm currently at 21.7m experience

Edited to add: Drizz would have way more if he played, he had a HUGE head start remember.



Jesus Christ..21.7m experience..So what skill HAVEN'T you maxed out? That's insane.

[Soulpieced]

A handful of people on Ed's list are part of the Two Timers Club... considerably more than 12 mil.

[bubbauno]

well I got nearly 100 spells now.. so that took up a lot of training points

[stallion4]

Naseer also has to have a considerable amount if fame is any indication as to total experience earned. Isn't be a multi account kinda guy like yourself though, Tsin?

[Shermatz]

Naseer definitely MAs. Although it is kind of funny to read his denials, on this very board.

[stallion4]

Ahh I thought I had heard that on the boards. I don't hunt OTF yet so I don't know the "gangs" up there outside of Tsin's posse. Thanks for confirming that.

[Stretch]

Everyone gives Tsin shit for MA'ing, but it's almost the norm in OTF to have at least one or two utility characters.

What's funny is when some people (Gibreficul is probably the most vocal) continually refer to it...and then go back to either the entrance by the pool or to Shimmarglin to a table where their alts are (Byzkit, Kristianna and whoever else).

[Stunseed]

It's pretty big in the Rift, too.

[TheEschaton]

Once you've put in all the effort to get to OTF, what's another utility character or two? ;)

I've always MAed for spelling up purposes, though never with the one character I care about. THough I'm starting to crack on him as well.

-TheE-

[Sean]

Once you've put in all the effort to get to OTF, what's another utility character or two? ;)

I've always MAed for spelling up purposes, though never with the one character I care about. THough I'm starting to crack on him as well.

-TheE-

You were also the biggest beneficiary of the gs4 rollout with stat reallocs and fixskills!

[Stretch]

It's too bad that no amount of fixskills or MA'ing will help the fact that your deity sucks donkey balls.

[AestheticDeath]

Active characters with close to or over 12m exp (off the top of my head):

Tsin
Naseer
Soulpieced
Drizzsdt
Vrannar
Snowie
Atlanteax (?)
Ariyel (?)
Malok

Estimates so far?
Tsin - 21.7m
Drizzsdt - 20m
Vrannar - 16m+
Angellisa - 14m, tad under
Sihaya - 12m
Suvar - 10.4m
Mega - 8.3m

actual #s on these guys?
Malok - 20m? I would assume Malok is over 14m by now, had between 10.5 and 13 at the start of GS4
Naseer - ?
Neimanz - ?
Soulpieced - ?
Snowie - ?
Atlanteax - ?
Ariyel - ?
Jadall - ?
Boomsplat - ?
Zylianara - ?


I forget the other two who were over 160 when the cap was put in.

edit - and Stallion, fame is not really a good indication of experience. Though in Naseers case, I wouldnt be surprised if hes got a similar ratio to Tsin on fame/exp. 14m exp or more?

[TheEschaton]

Holy shit, yeah, my main character was a giantman priest, post legend, with something like a 30 dex.

When I originally rolled him up, I was like, "Well, I figure he'll be the slow and plodding type, cool and calm in battle, not dodging this way and that." Then, maneuvers made their debut and I could literally do nothing.

And you couldn't even fit my deity's balls in your over-large mouth, turdface.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

There was some other cleric real high on the list, 10+ million. A sylvan.

[Stretch]

Sylvine was up there...

...in 1999.

I think Megaladon is sold?

Malok is closer to 20m than 14m.

Edaarin is at 9.2m, so should be up there in terms of highest level rogues. I think Tsin, Boomsplat, Ariyel, Zylianara, Atlanteax and Neimanz are ahead by a good amount though.

XXX fucked everything up.

[AestheticDeath]

Tsin.. I have been wondering whether or not you do anything with Chazym beyond haste your rogue. Are you leveling him as well? Hes the only other one I see in the hunting grounds.

[AestheticDeath]

I think Megaladon is sold?


As far as I know every 160+ character in GS3 sold, except Drizzsdt. Or perhaps Jadall? Was that the one that I, for some reason, recall the player died? I may seriously be transposing some names or something - Anyone know what happened to that one?

[GuildRat]

8.3 mill in exp ain't crap...I'm pushing that and I still feel insignificant compared to the elite.

[AestheticDeath]

I only listed Mega, since he was one of the few who was past the cap in GS3, even if it was only 2 lvls.

[bubbauno]

Malok had over 19 last time I talked to him

[stallion4]

Just saw Jadall the other day in the Rift.

[Soulpieced]

What Ed said. First XXX, and now the Adventurer's Guild aren't helping level inflation much. I'm sure everyone will hit 100 someday.

[Asha]

I'm sure everyone will hit 100 someday.

Not likely.
Also, quite a few people play GS for the atmosphere and roleplay they enjoy not just for mindless hunting, resting as close to the point of hunting ground entry as possible then soon as 'numbed' go out and hunt again.
I'm sure everyone will not hit 100 one day.

[AestheticDeath]

A large majority will wind up there, now that there is a cap. They will just slowly level... or be sold over and over, and wind up making it there by the hands of tons of juvenile miscreants.

And yes thats half jest, not everyone who buys characters is juvenile or a miscreant.

[Daniel]

I doubt I ever cap a character.

[Kelcie]

As far as I know every 160+ character in GS3 sold, except Drizzsdt. Or perhaps Jadall? Was that the one that I, for some reason, recall the player died? I may seriously be transposing some names or something - Anyone know what happened to that one?

Methais has never been sold.

[Boris]

I was wondering if some professions differ in the amount of power they gain post-cap. For instance, a bard might gain a ton of more power post cap due to them maximizing all their lores and spells but would say a warrior get any more power other then possibly gaining spells (which is arguable since this can detract from redux). Any thoughts to which profession gains the most power post-cap par for par?

[Latrinsorm]

Definitely one of the semi classes, and probably bards.

That said, a warrior with 3x dodge and 3x shield would be pretty impressive.

[Boris]

That said, a warrior with 3x dodge and 3x shield would be pretty impressive.

Yes this would be pretty impressive. Especially if you can get your redux to the .70+ range and your ambush/multi-opp to max.

[Fallen]

Squares that can eventually spell tank would become the most powerful characters post cap. Maxing out MIU and Arcane symbols so that you keep redux, but can wear all the spells you want would be just about unstoppable in plate. Add in padding, fun toys like 8x+ or weighted weapons and you have a killing machine. The only things that can stop you are death flares off obscenely high AS's, and cheatme instadeath maneuvers.

To the topic at hand, the most efficient killer I can think of is either a focused imploding sorcerer, or a hasted ambushing rogue/warrior.

[bubbauno]

you mean like a rogue with 100 spells swinging a 9.5x claid weighted mattock with perma 1 sec RT?

[stallion4]

What do you swing at, Tsin?

And please don't gimme a wiseass answer like.."Everything!"

[bubbauno]

690 normally.. I wear pretty much every spell possible since I can.. I have self cast 117 but I never need to use it

[stallion4]

Gross.

[Sean of the Thread]

720 and it's all mute.. I doubt u can react fast enough if it takes two 720's... weed fucks with your reflexes.

[bubbauno]

Yeah that may be true, but sorcs crumble like paper when they are hit by anything physical.. Rather have my redux, 10x masterful crit hauberk and 675 DS in offensive..

[stallion4]

Man..you're the toughest person I know, Tsin! Now..hit that bong..eat those fritos and hit that repeat button to rack up that fame. My hero!

[El Burro]

100 spell ranks must really rape the redux old man

[Latrinsorm]

It's pretty remarkable that you'd put in the time to get enough post-cap TPs for 100 spells...

...and then settle for hauberk. :wtf:

[Sean of the Thread]

lol

[AestheticDeath]

Methais has never been sold.

Methais was not over the cap when the cap was placed in the game. Therefore he does not count.

edit - when i said every 160+ character, I meant anyone actually over 160, not anyone who reached 160. If that were the case, there would be a ton more characters to talk about. As it is, the 160+ characters only had a select group of nine people as far as I know.

[Asha]

Yeah that may be true, but sorcs crumble like paper when they are hit by anything physical.. Rather have my redux, 10x masterful crit hauberk and 675 DS in offensive..

With 10x MCP studded, and 500+ in offensive There's fuck all which'll do anything to any pure.
If you mean PvP then first to hit keys. Plus you'd have all those boxes to hit you in the cock as they smack you into the void.

[GS4-D]

It's pretty remarkable that you'd put in the time to get enough post-cap TPs for 100 spells...

...and then settle for hauberk. :wtf:

Hauberk is the heaviest armor you can wear as a rogue that can be trained to have minimum spell hindrance in both MnE and MnS.

[stallion4]

That does NOT take away from the fact that he is indeed a gimp that put in enough time to earn 100 spells.

Edited to add:

But dudeman knows this game inside and out.

[Asha]

Why bother when you choose slaves?
When I make a char I train them to be 100% independant. Get some lvl 30 cleric and go plate if you really need blues, look and dim.

[GS4-D]

That does NOT take away from the fact that he is indeed a gimp that put in enough time to earn 100 spells.


Well..it all depends on how he chose his spells between MnS and MnE, but he most likely went for 120 and then 81 ranks in MnE so he can get the extra AS from 425 and extra DS/TD from 430.

[Asha]

Er mate, you missed his point.

[stallion4]

Completely.

[Boris]

Pures just die too easily to CM attacks. Squares will make the most efficient killers, especially Rogues. Rogues are most efficient because of their ability to 3x hide+shadow mastery then ambush(what is this 3 seconds altogether for the kill? (including haste)).

But, I begin to wonder once the changes to Rogues being only able to wear up to Brig for no hinderance hiding kick in, will Rogues still be the best square profession? (I know this change is a long time away, but its been verified by Warden and changes to the spell list for some professions verify this.)

[zhelas]

All the professions seem pretty well balanced. How you train seems more important.

Sorcerer, crowd control, Animated Creature, Implosion, enough protections spells to make them glow. Sure CMs can own them. Tactics can bypass that or who hits the keyboard the fastest.

Ranger... mass calm the room, tangleweed running, 2x hiding, 606, 509, haste imbedded wiregrass, camoflage and a shot to the eye. Not bad I would say. My ranger is keeping his brig in his locker until the new hiding changes occur. For now he will not part with his augmented chain.

[stallion4]

Like you said..every profession has it's methods. Some people may consider better than others. But it's a lot of opinion. And most people will stand up for THEIR profession..i.e. Tsin. He's definately a killing machine..but not invincible. Someone said a FI could kill him and I'm sure it could. But he could also kill pretty much anyone if he slams a chubby finger down on the keyboard before the other person gets a cast off or whatever. Zhelas made fine points as did Tsin. Everyone can butcher shit..can argue about this forever.

[StrayRogue]

Its all about who hits first in GS.

[stallion4]

Agreed.

[AestheticDeath]

In some cases. But since I haven't seen capped guys duel in GS4, I tend to have my doubts. Especially if its a rogue archer against another square using a shield.

Also... the capped rogue I have hunted OTF just as well in brig as he does in breastplate. Plus, like Tsin mentioned about his DS... if your not getting hit.. who cares what base class your armor is?

[ELO]

(I know this change is a long time away, but its been verified by Warden and changes to the spell list for some professions verify this.)

He also "verified" that breakage was coming back.

[Asha]

There are so many changes to so many spells lists, that seeing a few come here and there doesn't mean Simu are gonna pwn plate/chain wearing rogues any time soon.
I've seen all the yada yada on the officials about folks complaining about this eventual nerf, but what the shit does any square have if they're suddenly without high AsG, especially rogues who've spent eons learning how to hide in tough armours?
GS is not about what's likely in RL.
If they take our ability to ambush in decent AsG's becouse it's not likely to seem realistic, then they might as well take away every spell and everything else in game.
I would be sick if this change came to pass.

[Bobmuhthol]

Paladins shouldn't be better fighters than warriors.

[Asha]

It's tru.
Their AS is insane. And coupled with their Cman feint.. 720 pwns thank Christ.

[zhelas]

From what I understand, a Paladin's main weakness is their defense.

[zhelas]

Paladins shouldn't be better fighters than warriors.

Agreed. Paladins are Semi's and have to spend points on spells and combat. A Warrior should be weapons masters.

[Boris]

Changes are happening because the spells that have already come out, came out expressly to address the changes. (I.E. Spells assisting in CMAN defense). So, you can deduce from this that eventually the changes to dodge will be installed some time in the future.

In terms of Paladins. Paladins are in theory are the most powerful class by far (post cap). Not only do they have have the highest AS (by far) but also can train essentially like a warrior (short of 3x dodge and 3x MOPP?) with a host of spells. They effectively have the warrior's Weapon bond cman, (and most of the cmans that are used most by warriors) and they can all do this wearing a suit of full plate. The problem with paladins is training costs are steep but again post 100+ this doesn't really matter.

[StrayRogue]

The fact you say "by far" makes laugh, and reminds me you aren't in a position to judge "the best" if such a thing exists in Gemstone.

[stallion4]

"By far"...amusing.

[Boris]

Paladins are by medium far the best. I'm not talking just a capped paladin, I'm talking every skills maximized. They can also mimick the warrior berserk by their broken spells.

[StrayRogue]

What....the hell is medium far?

I'd also like to know what MOPP is, as I'm pretty sure warriors can't triple it.

[Boris]

Sorry, MOPP is multi opponent and yes they can only 2x it (warriors just plain suck, nothing to offer). And yeah that makes paladins even more uber.

[StrayRogue]

Why would you want to 3x MOC? Warriors are the most defensive of all the professions, something Paladin's cannot attest to. Having the biggest AS doesn't mean much when you're swinging a shitty OHE/OHB (which is all pretty much a paladin is designed to use either) either.

[Boris]

The fact is a paladin if they wanted can train almost exactly like a warrior (although I don't think they can 3x in shield like a warrior), and can get similar redux if they don't train in spells(and by similar we're talking a couple of percentage points at cap ...this is due to the .016 redux per level or massive diminishing returns you get towards the end). And with all their spells and some outside spells they can get comparable defense to a warrior (perhaps a tad smaller). But they make up in their gigantic AS. I know AS isn't everything etc. etc. but it does make a bit of difference when you swing the same heavily crit weighted OHE/OHB and your endroll is 100 some points higher.

[Artha]

If they get redux by not training in spells, how do you expect them to have that huge AS?

[stallion4]

Was asking myself the same question..since a ton of their AS comes from their spells correct?

[StrayRogue]

No, they can't train exactly like a warrior simply because the paladin costs are so prohibitive. Paladins can only triple one skill, which is armour, where warriors can triple Shield, Armour, PT and Dodge. The fact they can get 101 more ranks of Shield and Dodge alone gives them such a huge DS increase over paladins "without any spells". I'd also contest that a paladin "without any spells" would not have a redux similar to a warriors because of the fact warriors get 101 ranks of PT.

Secondly, if you didn't gain any spells as a paladin, you'd have a lower AS than the normal warrior. Which is all you seem to be harping on about.

You're also forgetting warriors gain better defences to maneuvers like feint, disarm, tackle etc.

[Fallen]

Dont forget about Divine Shield, which adds a ton of skill to a Paladin's change to block.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Boris
Paladins are by medium far the best. I'm not talking just a capped paladin, I'm talking every skills maximized. They can also mimick the warrior berserk by their broken spells.

This seems contradictory to you putting them behind Sorcs and Rogues in your 1st post. Well assuming I knew what by medium far the best meant.

[Boris]

No, they can't train exactly like a warrior simply because the paladin costs are so prohibitive.

We're talking at 100+ when all skills are maxed. And in terms of defense it depends how a paladins redux is compared to a warriors. I'm going to assume a warrior will only train in minor spirit up to about 20 25? and go for MIU and arcane symbols for all the rest of the spells since this won't hurt redux as much. Paladins will probably try to get as much of their spells in their circle and get the rest off MIU and arcane symbols, perhaps they'll train in one more sphere. All in all I don't believe a paladin's redux will not differ that much more (maybe by 10-15%) which is significant but not by much.

That being said, a paladin's offensive spells with the addition of his massive AS (which comes nearly all from the paladin spell circle) makes him more deadly then a warrior and perhaps on par with a hiding/ambush rogue (perhaps).

[StrayRogue]

Your use of English is really annoying. Stop contradicting your statements in the same line.

BTW, Why do you care about MAXXED skills? No one has even done it yet. Why even postulate about something that is so unlikely to happen? Considering you're not totally familiar with game mechanics, I don't see how any of your rock solid arguments could hold any water either. By the way, a paladin with MAXXED spells, won't have any redux.

[Boris]

This is just general postulating and not so much a "rock solid argument". When I mean maxxed skills I mean not so much that EVERY skill is maxxed but those that are pertinent to combat. So this is achievable and I believe some people currently are close. And the reason I use max skills is because I want to know that at the "inifinite horizon" what profession in the end is the best.

[StrayRogue]

I'll tell you now paladins are not the best at the end.

[Boris]

I'll tell you now paladins are not the best at the end.

What is your argument for this Stray?

[StrayRogue]

They excell in only one area: AS.
They lack the defenses of a warrior to really tank, nor the CM defense of the warrior.
They lack a super, ultra killer maneuver/CS spell similar to bards, wizards, and sorcerers.

They are in effect a one trick pony, designed for a very specific training scheme: OHE/OHB. Warriors on the other hand can easily train in multiple means of combat, such as TWC, Ambushing, MOCing or pure AS tanking (using their rt/stance/knockdown maneuvers to get a lower DS), all the while having the best possible defenses.

Just to say again, a maxed spell paladin will have only the tiniest redux, possibly even 0.

Finally, there comes a point where more AS doesn't mean much. When you can kill reliably on a 113 endroll, who cares if you can get that endroll over 300+?

[Latrinsorm]

In terms of Paladins. Paladins are in theory are the most powerful class by far (post cap). Not only do they have have the highest AS (by far) but also can train essentially like a warrior (short of 3x dodge and 3x MOPP?) with a host of spells.It would take a very large amount of post-cap TPs for a paladin to be the physical equal of a newly capped warrior.
We're talking at 100+ when all skills are maxed.Nobody is going to reach that level for many years, if ever. If you take a paladin at cap who averages 55/50 TPs per level over his or her first 100 levels, you'd have to absorb 1500 a pulse, nonstop, for 4 years, 71 days, and a little over 9 hours to max all skills. If we assume the paladin only(!!) absorbs 10 hours a day (every day of every year) it takes 9 years, 146 days, and almost 2 hours after cap.

In any event, bards are definitely better than paladins in the long run for one very simple reason; Tonis. In this mythical maxxed end-game, bards can maneuver exactly as well as paladins and have a slight deficit in DF and AS that is more than counterbalanced by being markedly faster.

[zhelas]

It would take a very large amount of post-cap TPs for a paladin to be the physical equal of a newly capped warrior.Nobody is going to reach that level for many years, if ever. If you take a paladin at cap who averages 55/50 TPs per level over his or her first 100 levels, you'd have to absorb 1500 a pulse, nonstop, for 4 years, 71 days, and a little over 9 hours to max all skills. If we assume the paladin only(!!) absorbs 10 hours a day (every day of every year) it takes 9 years, 146 days, and almost 2 hours after cap.


Gemstone GM #1: Fellow board members, we have a problem. Somebody in the Gemstone IV is ignoring Elanthia's rules and is going around killing innocent players.

Simutronics President: Why kill innocent players? The game is about roleplaying.

Gemstone GM #2: We got to delete him from the server!

Gemstone GM #1: We can't. Whoever this player is has played Gemstone IV so much, that he has reached a level we thought unreachable. He's actually able to kill our Game Hosts! And he grows stronger every day!

Gemstone GM #3: Jesus!

Gemstone GM #2: What kind of person would do this?

Gemstone GM #1: Only one kind, whoever this person is, he has played Gemstone IV nearly every hour of every day for the past year and a half! Gentlemen, we are dealing with someone here who has absolutely no life.

Gemstone IV #3: How can you kill that which has no life?

[stallion4]

His drug and eating habits are killing him as we speak..have you seen him? Stroke/heart attack isn't far off for dudeman.

[zhelas]

Noob 1: I have a solution, you guys. That guy can kill us so easily because he's a super-high level, right? What if we were super-high level too?
Noob 2: We can't get to a higher level because that dude doesn't let us hunt!
Noob 1: That's why we just need to log in and stay in the catacombs, killing rats.
Noob 3: Rats?
Noob 1: There's lots of computer-generated rats in Elanthia that die with just one blow.
Noob 3: Dude, rats are only worth two experience points apiece. Do you know how many we would have to kill to get up 30 levels?
Noob 1: Yes. [whips out a sheet full of calculations] Sixty-five million three hundred and forty thousand two hundred and eighty five. Which should take us seven weeks five days thirteen hours and twenty minutes, giving ourselves three hours a night to sleep. What do you say, guys? You can just, you can just hang outside in the sun all day tossin' a ball around, [firmly] or you can sit at your computer and do somethin' that matters.

[Tyrael]

Why not post the supposed training for the paladin vs the training for a warrior and do the math to calculate the relative AS and DS? Assuming all items are the same ( Shield, Armor, Weapon )

[Soulpieced]

They lack a super, ultra killer maneuver/CS spell similar to bards, wizards, and sorcerers.

.

There's your answer to this thread right there without having to delve much further. Wizards USED to be the most powerful until 415 was neutered. Simply put, bard with 2x spell use will have a sickly powerful 1030, I think (?) DC is still powerful enough to keep sorcerers around, and wizards can rapid fire using AS based bolts.

[Sean of the Thread]

The lack The Sonic Sword of a 1000 Truths.

[AestheticDeath]

Secondly, if you didn't gain any spells as a paladin, you'd have a lower AS than the normal warrior. Which is all you seem to be harping on about.

What gives the warrior a higher AS than a paladin assuming neither have spells? One of the cman skills?

[StrayRogue]

Yes, weapon bonding.

[AestheticDeath]

Ah, what exactly does that do? From what little I have heard, I thought it was just able to return the weapon to your hand if thrown/disarmed.

er nevermind I read the thing. So you get +10 AS from this? 2 for each rank?

[stallion4]

Yeah..along with all the perks of being bonded. Not to mention you can set it to the specific perk you'd like to have. Which happens about once every 8-12 swings or so from what I gathered in my warrior time. I stuck with the double swing..because with a claid..the fight is over.

[Drew]

We're talking at 100+ when all skills are maxed. And in terms of defense it depends how a paladins redux is compared to a warriors. I'm going to assume a warrior will only train in minor spirit up to about 20 25? .



This is the training plan for the warrior with the second most TPs around (I'd wager):


(at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all
modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 403 303
Combat Maneuvers...................| 302 202
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 302 202
Brawling...........................| 302 202
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 170 70
Physical Fitness...................| 324 224
Dodging............................| 201 101
Harness Power......................| 160 60
Elemental Mana Control.............| 25 5
Survival...........................| 50 10
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 124 32

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 17



He can cast guidance in full plate with minimum hinderance, pretty sick.

[Gibreficul]

Everyone gives Tsin shit for MA'ing, but it's almost the norm in OTF to have at least one or two utility characters.

What's funny is when some people (Gibreficul is probably the most vocal) continually refer to it...and then go back to either the entrance by the pool or to Shimmarglin to a table where their alts are (Byzkit, Kristianna and whoever else).

I at least TRY to hide my alts. I keep them in a major sanct or a table most of the time. Those who don't even try to hide it, say things aloud in game like, Let me log in my cleric (that's a Tsin quote) are the MAers that ruin the experience. The fact is that when I have 3 characters logged in, 2 of them are usually invisible to anything but the profile, fame, and find verbs.

[Tyrael]

I have never played the game with an alternate account or character. Isn't an MMO about meeting people?

[Methais]

Methais was not over the cap when the cap was placed in the game. Therefore he does not count.

On a side note, I was the first to hit 160 after the cap was implemented. Not that it really matters though.

[Iriscience]

Naseer definitely MAs. Although it is kind of funny to read his denials, on this very board.

I don't remember ever denying that I use multiple accounts.

[El Burro]

More denial :(

[Dwarven Empath]

Sorry to bring this one back, but...

GS4-D wrote...

"There is no capped character with all capped skills currently. And besides, having all capped skills won't make you any better of a hunter than having your core hunting skills capped."

So...A capped empath that is capped in 2hand weapons, Brawling and Combat Maneuvers is no better then another capped empath that's not trained in any of those skills?

I find that hard to believe, the first empath would have a better defense and offense empty handed.

Medi...

[Ignot]

those are core in my opinion. I think they meant like, an empath capped in trading, picking pockets, and disarming traps isnt going to be any better.