Dodging skill vs. Shield Size

[Sthrockmorton]

Is there anyone that could help me a bit as to what point in your dodging training vs. shield training is it better to carry a small shield instead of a larger one?

[Celephais]

What armor are you talking about? What stance?

You have five factors right now...
Shield Size, Shield Ranks, Dodge ranks, Stance and Armor

Pick a stance and an armor and I'll let you know (or hell, pick an armor and I'll tell you for offensive and guarded).

[vontez]

for warriors - more feasible to triple in shield with no dodge?

[Latrinsorm]

I'm going to post 8 numbers. For MBP and full plate, this is how much DS each rank of dodge is worth in stance offensive across the four shield sizes:
0.526500 .. 0.472500 .. 0.418500 .. 0.364500

Full plate:
0.482625 .. 0.433125 .. 0.383625 .. 0.334125

Shield is easier, because it has nothing to do with armor. All you have to worry about is size and stance. For offensive stance all you do is (.85 + .15 * size) * (ranks) / 3, where size = 0 for small, 1 for medium, and so on. Thus, the per rank values are (independent of armor!):
0.283333333 .. 0.333333333 .. 0.383333333 .. 0.433333333

Thus, we have a very simple equation for any training plan. Just punch in your values for shield and dodge and see how the numbers shake out. It so happens that the best shield for even training (1x/1x, 2x/2x, 3x/3x, 1.58x/1.58x) is a tower. Once you get to 1.02x in dodge whatever your shield is, a small is the best bet. Never a large, never a medium.

Note that both the shield and dodge DS formulas have stat bonuses involved, and these stat bonuses can be more significant than training at low levels. The higher the level (and the greater disparity in training) the less significant these bonuses become.

Also note that this is specifically for melee DS, and the shield size modifiers get juiced versus ranged and bolt DS. Dodge is also increased to some extent, but I have to tell you, my 3x shield warrior's ranged DS in stance offensive is really obnoxiously high.

Finally, ranged is also subject to encumbrance and injury penalties that shield is not. Obviously you don't plan on being injured or encumbered, and they aren't overwhelming, but still. Shield sizes have flat bonuses and penalties attached, but like the stat bonuses these become less relevant as training goes on.

[Sean of the Thread]

Fuck abstinence you need to get laid dude.

[Latrinsorm]

Wouldn't you much rather consider the sexual escapades of a more.. well, female member of the PC populace?

[Artha]

If you shave and he turns the lights off it's all the same.

[mgoddess]

Just don't try shaving *while* the lights are off...

[Bobmuhthol]

It's really only ever worth using a small shield when you have 1x or less shield with 2x or more dodge and light armor.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, Bob. It sounds like you're referring to stance defensive, but the stance modifiers for dodge and shield are different in stance offensive, leading to the value I cited in my earlier post (1.02).

[Ignot]

Guess it depends what your hunting too, based on your previous post

[holocene]

And would have to factor in your need for evade and block as well as these two things are inversely correlated with dodge and shield use.

But in terms of pure DS, he's done his research....and presented this more clearly than ever.

[Celephais]

But in terms of pure DS, he's done his research....

Play.Net states the formula quite strait forward (not claiming he doesn't do his research, he certainly does)

[Latrinsorm]

At least 60% of the time I don't do the research myself, to be honest. I'm more a compiler than a researcher.

In this instance, I started with the play.net and added research from Porcell and Wuddrift to get to the stated values.

[Stanley Burrell]

This is dumb because:

Ryu Hayabusa can do forward flips using his 200 pound berserker Dabilahro and we somehow can't balance our way around a critter using a big friggin' tower shield to stick into the ground while we do a bunch of ninja-style ballerina sheeot in the manner that it should also be able to be executed sensibly in.

[Celephais]

... We're not playing Ninja Gaiden here.

[Stanley Burrell]

... We're not playing Ninja Gaiden here.

DON'T MAKE ME NINPO YOUR FACE.

Kthnx :)

[Sthrockmorton]

Sorry I was so late responding, but lets say a 60th train rogue who's 2.5x in dodge (157 ranks), and 1.5x in shields (93 or 97 ranks i think? We'll just average em to 95) off the top of my head so not entirely sure on those shield ranks, but somewhere in there. So....

157 dodge ranks
95 shield ranks
30 armor ranks
wearing brigandine
in stance offense

I'm really curious to know, but regardless of the results I think I may use a small shield for RP purposes, I just dont see my katar wielding stealthy human rogue blundering around with a shield half his size. I'm just curious if I'm gaining or losing anything by using the buckler.

[Sthrockmorton]

One other thing, I know the formula's for the dodging/shield training, I'm gonna figure between the two I'll have on average a 30-35% chance of blocking or evading with my shield/weapon/dodge abilities....

Right now I'm looking for pure DS

One other question though, do I get extra parry abilities since I 2x in Brawling AND OHE?

[Latrinsorm]

You should definitely be using a small shield (and getting into some real armor, but that's another point).

You do not get bonus parry for having extra weapon skills. You only get parry for the weapons skills involved in wielding the actual weapon you have out. For hybrid weapons, I imagine the parry is determined as the AS/DS are.