Would you be a GM?

[Asha]

I hear people say they wouldn't since they're paid shit, but wouldn't the perks or the satisfaction of making additions to the game be pay enough?
If you would, which section of GS would you want to be stationed on?
Which town, which merchants would you love to take control of, or would you simply be a moderator on the officials?

There have been some weapons, armor and basicly any auction gear added which has been amazing but some which has been utterly shit.
How would you change the auction items up for Ebons?

From what I've seen and heard there's this stigma about GMing.
I, personally wouldn't be able to since I don't have the time but I know I have ideas and inspirations which would make good ideas or thoughts for such as Ebons' shops or items, places out of town or creatures.
But I know for a FACT I couldn't deal with the merchant side of things.
I've seen them sign on for 5 hours of intense work before they can break off.

Overall I think I would try, for the knowledge I've changed something in GS everyone would enjoy maybe. But realisticly, it's a huge sacrifice I'd have had to take from playing the game I love since it becomes work and hardly any time to play.
What about you?

[Fallen]

No. It robs the magic from the game.

[Asha]

I've seen it do that to people who've made that change.
But on the otherhand I've seen another who's enjoyed being able to delve deeper and make differences which would otherwise be pretty impossible.

[Hips]

I'm nowhere near that devoted.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm torn because I want to know how all the mechanics work, but I also want to discover them on my own, so I'll put down an ironclad, unequivocal maybe.

I definitely wouldn't be a pretty thing designer guy, because I'm really hit-or-miss when it comes to that. I'm confident I could pull off being a warrior guru though.

[Ignot]

I wouldn't want too for the reasons Fallen said and I don't have time. Quite frankly, i don't see how anyone with a real job could be a GM. Where do they get the time? They can't get paid enough to live.

If I HAD to though, I would want to be one of the customer service GM's. Im better with people then all the funky programming stuff.

[Asha]

I'm confident I could pull off being a warrior guru though.
Agreed. Plus combat mechanics overall.
I think there's quite a few on these boards who'd excel in their own way.
I'd go for the design area. Wether it be rooms, items or lore.
Also, I'd 'try' to have the patience for a merchant if I'd be able to work it so it was on my off day.
But I imagine I'd run out of interest pretty quickly when the whispering and sleazy RP that was just becouse a GM was present would have me shut the wagon and go.

[Artha]

If you like GS, don't become a GM.

[Back]

I would not do it unless you had the free time, self-motivation, and dedication.

[Stanley Burrell]

Definitely no.

[Orendis]

In general, I have to say that I doubt anyone GMs for any of the monetary 'rewards.' It's definitely a sacrifice, but worth it on the individual level if you feel you're actually making the game a better place on an official level. I imagine that, like any other customer service position, it takes a lot of stamina, patience, and a tough skin. You're not getting paid much, which is what keeps most people in their tough jobs. So GameMasters have to be motivated by love and dedication for the game.

I'm not saying that no one with ulterior motives get hired, but they're probably quickly weeded out when they find out that the amount of work they're doing just isn't worth their delusions of grandeur and some such. That's why I laugh sometimes when I see people accusing long-time staffers of all manner of ills. Again, not impossible, but highly unlikely.

That's not to say that players can't contribute to making the game better--indeed, I think the large and diverse playing populace is the single most important component to GemStone.

On that note, if every great player becomes a GM, we lose some of the magic in the playing populace. I'm glad that there are people on both sides of the line.

Tierus's Dream Daemon

[Satira]

What Esteban said.

[Orendis]

What Esteban said.

My name isn't Esteban any more, but I'll still please you with my guitar.

--C.

[Stunseed]

I'd do it if I could sit behind the scenes and try to create things, I think. I don't think you could pay me enough to do customer service related things.

[Apathy]

Not gonna happen shorty.

[HouseofElves]

I think it takes a lot of self-loathing to become a GM.

If I could sit around and make alters for people, write lore, do storylines, and help players, I would totally do it. But the truth about being a GM means you get to do very little of this when YOU want to. And so I say, sux0r it.

[Asha]

My name isn't Esteban any more, but I'll still please you with my guitar.

--C.

Which end?

[mgoddess]

But the truth about being a GM means you get to do very little of this when YOU want to.

So damn true.

I'd be a GM if I had the time and patience, and if I could get Simu to promise me to let me do what *I* want to do, not what they want me to do. (I'd love to be able to create items for people and run merchants...but wouldn't want to do the lore, room creation, customer service (assists & referrals), etc. etc. that'd come with the job.)

[Orendis]

Which end?

The one on the side.

[Jolena]

Oddly enough, I've been debating this very question for some time. I had the opportunity to apply to be a GM for Khaladon's team, and they are not involved so much in the assists area, like GH's are. My job would primarily be with storylines, events, creating items, and merchanting. Now, all of those things are all things I adore about GS and I have managed to be able to do some of it through my PRO and through being a member of ALAE, but not in this type of capacity.

Pros: all of the above

Cons: can't be an officer of a PRO, which I am
must work a minimum of 60 hours a month, including scheduled shifts
Very little time to play my characters for enjoyment, as all my time
would be involved in GM projects
Very little time spent enjoying a pay event again, as all my time would
be spent working at them instead.

What it came down to was that I wasn't willing to give up enjoying GS as a player in order to enjoy GS as a GM. :shrug:

[Shari]

What Jolena said, except for the part where she actually had the opportunity to become a GM.

:D

[Satira]

I think it just depends on where you're at and your personality. If I was given the opportunity, whether it was related to customer service or something else, I'd take it. I've worked in customer servicey jobs before and that kind of thing appeals to me. But I definitely love playing as a character as well, and I can see where someone else might think it was icky. Like Jolena did, you'd have to weigh the pros and cons for yourself.

[Asha]

Most of those who've said they wouldn't do it supprises me.
It's so sad they can't give more incentive to make these people who're most likely to make excellent differences.
Shame, overall.

[Shari]

Yeah. I mean if there were more incentive, I'd be all over it. In the past I've submitted ideas to various GM's for item designs to help out (some of you are wearing my piercing designs!).

If there was some sort of hourly pay, I could see more stay-at-home parents doing it just to get away from "real life" while they're taking care of the home, or college students as a kind of part-time job.

[HouseofElves]

Oddly enough, I've been debating this very question for some time. I had the opportunity to apply to be a GM for Khaladon's team,

HAHAHAHA. That would have been reason enough for me to stomp all over that idea.

[Methais]

Would you be a GM?

If I could run the game my way, sure. Otherwise no thanks on working in an MMO sweatshop.

[StrayRogue]

I would because I know I could make the game a better place. However, I dislike the Customer Relations aspect of it, including the whole GM asskissing that is involved in becoming a GM in the first place.

I'm not nice enough a person, basically, heh.

But I'd give it a shot, if I had the chance.

[Drew]

If I could create items and interact with players I would sure, but you can't just do that.

[StrayRogue]

Exactly (add monsters and new areas to that list).

[Gan]

Only if I could host a GM event where every person who attempts said ass kissing I could bolt into oblivion right there on the spot.

And only if I could randomly walk through the lands creating spontaneous events for folks like odd monster occurrences, interesting treasure findings, and create spontaneous invasions like the time the guy found a rod in a box and when he waved it around in TSC it caused massive troll kings, queens, and princes to sprout up from the ground.

And do more profession isolated engagements with folks, while including the option to bolt quest whores and ass kissers the moment they start it up.

[Fallen]

Another thing to consider is I believe you are highly discouraged to participate in any sort of raffles, games, quests, or events that are in any sort of official capacity with your PC. There is far too high a risk of people screaming FOUL if you win, or are favored, or get GM attention.

Exanding a bit on my original post in this thread (robs the game of its magic), this is a complaint I have heard from several GMs. Once you see the game as a whole bunch of mechanics and can really catch a glimpse of the code involved, it just robs the player of his ability to immerse himself in certain aspects of his character, and of Elanthia. Sure, an investigative mind like Latrin knows the mechanics better than most, though if he was able to understand exactly how everything works just by poking around a bit .. I would say it is a bit different.

Your sense of enjoyment would have to shift from a personal enjoyment of the game, to a wish to fulfill as many OTHER people's personal enjoyment of the game. You work for everyone but yourself. If you get a few, "Wow, thanks" along the way, consider yourself lucky.

[Jolena]

Another thing to consider is I believe you are highly discouraged to participate in any sort of raffles, games, quests, or events that are in any sort of official capacity with your PC. There is far too high a risk of people screaming FOUL if you win, or are favored, or get GM attention.

Actually you can't participate in raffles, games, quests or merchant lines anymore if you become a GM.



Your sense of enjoyment would have to shift from a personal enjoyment of the game, to a wish to fulfill as many OTHER people's personal enjoyment of the game. You work for everyone but yourself. If you get a few, "Wow, thanks" along the way, consider yourself lucky.

Exactly my point. The incentive for me is not monetary. I know they don't get paid well and I don't mind that necessarily - I, like most folks who play this game and even the GM's, have a regular job so the monetary incentive is not a priority. My incentive is the ability to truly get involved and create things for the game that I've played and loved for so long. That would be reward enough for me.

The reason I wouldn't do this right now is because I think I'd lose the ability to play my character just for pure enjoyment were I to turn my time in GS into a 'job'. Perhaps another time will come up where they need the type of GM's that I would be overjoyed to apply for, but for now, I'd rather just enjoy playing.

Edited to clarify that I was never 'invited' to apply for a GM position on Khaladon's team, but the opportunity to do so came up when a few GM's from that team moved on to other endeavors and he posted on the boards about people interested needing to apply. I did talk to him in IM's about the requirements and the prerequisites of applying, however, so that's where my information came from on what is expected of a GM on his team.

[zhelas]

Actually you wonder. If more folks applied and became GMs would you need to put in as many hrs a month? This job seems thankless at times. These folks volunteer their time to try and make the game better. You can't please everyone, I am sure at times the complaints about how they are doing their jobs does not wash off everytime.

I could see how knowing the code behind the game would make it difficult to enjoy yourself. You wander through something you worked on and boom you see mistakes you made instead of the world you created.

As for creating room descriptions etc etc can't you do that by joining the ALAE?

[Landrion]

Exactly (add monsters and new areas to that list).

Critters and hunting grounds is all Id want personally. But I think Gmming would turn something fun into a chore, so I probably never will.

[TheEschaton]

If I had the time, I would do it. As it is, I don't.

Plus, I think a lot of people have echoed one of the main concerns - lack of flexibility on what you wanted to do. I'd love to do both design (the Arkati docs come specifically to mind), expansion, and I'd love to also do customer service. And I think I'm pretty good with both - my degree is in computer science, so I imagine I'd be pretty decent at coding, and my patience is legendary.

As for "robbing" the imagination. I'm pretty good at separating the two out. I think I could manage it, but I'd be pissed if I coudn't play my characters all that much.

Edited to add: I'd love to do what Ganalon wants to do. Random quests, interactions with players who are just playing the game, and not searching quests out necessarily. Turn an ordinary day into an extraordinary day.

Before law school I applied a time or two for GM. Didn't get it even though I'm pretty qualified. ;) I guess my not kissing ass worked against me. ;)

-TheE-

[Lassiter 506]

In short, hell no. If I had more free time, I'd prefer to spend it elsewhere. I'd avoid the daily lambasting from a whiners brigade, and make significantly more money in the end by investing my time earning my doctoral degree.

All in all, SIMU customer's service is attrocious, and their game updates/process occurs at a paraplegic pace. The GS staff is undermanned and depleted, and reflects SIMU's devotion of resources. I found it hilarious that HJERIC wanted player input on how best to recruit old players to return to GS. In an email, I laid a simple two sentence response. First step, pay the existing staff more or hire more people. Second, proceed from there.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Hm.

Part of me... says No. I wouldn't-- for all of the above mentioned reasons. It'd suck to not be able to participate in getting alters, or to ruin part of the Eahnor Trust for my friends because everytime Veythorne showed up, everyone would think it was me making him or some crap. I know how deeply it would affect my gameplay-- and like Jolena said, GS would turn from an escape into a job, not just ruining my own RP but everyone else's around.

I have *always* however, felt like Gemstone should have a group similar to ALAE, perhaps with stricter guidelines/harder to get into, that is basically full of creative individuals willing to merchant/work on events. While I'd not like to do everything that all GM's do, I think that myself and some others who play are very creative and good at item design, and with the proper training could run more merchants and fantastic ones at that, as well as help with the design of items for shops, etc. Sometimes I feel very annoyed at the GMs when they whine about merchanting and designing items because there IS such a group of creative, talented item designers here already who would be more than willing to pick up a task, even if it was offered for no pay.

I agree with Lassiter too-- they have utterly terrible customer service and hide behind the excuse of "independent contractors" and other bullshit, as if because they chose to be paid shit for what they do they don't have to be polite or shut up even when they disagree with a customer. I'm constantly annoyed by the mouth-off remarks and such-- having worked in retail, if I'd made just one comment like that then I'd be out of a job so fast my head would spin.

[HouseofElves]

I agree with Lassiter too-- they have utterly terrible customer service and hide behind the excuse of "independent contractors" and other bullshit, as if because they chose to be paid shit for what they do they don't have to be polite or shut up even when they disagree with a customer. I'm constantly annoyed by the mouth-off remarks and such-- having worked in retail, if I'd made just one comment like that then I'd be out of a job so fast my head would spin.


THX YOU. That is SUCH bullshit. It's still a company and they should still be expected and required to perform with a level of professionalism.

[crb]

I used to want to, but not anymore.

It still really appeals to me, the joy of having someone experience what you create is a strong attraction, but I simply do not have the time to do it anymore.

If I did do it I'd want to be on the dev side, not customer service. Spells, critters, and fancy items. Doing new auction items would be really fun, and also I'd be interested in doing the occasional merchant.

Doing spot invasions or just hopping in and enhancing the RP of some random individual could be fun too.

[ViridianAsp]

THX YOU. That is SUCH bullshit. It's still a company and they should still be expected and required to perform with a level of professionalism.


We have a better chance of the apocalypse happening, before Simutronics acts professional. Lately I've been a little upset at how they conduct themselves and treat their customers.

[Xaerve]

The game has lost a lot of players because of the poor customer service and hazy "rules" they enforce.

I really wish they'd stop the whole "family game" mentality too. Getting my mouth washed out for saying "fuck" is one thing, but getting it washed out for saying "Shit" is another I think.

There just is too much random moderation in the game (and msg boards), and dealing with that crap would turn me away from wanting to be a GM.

I agree that they should let a lot a lot more of the game be player-driven. Just like High-School & College has clubs and teams that run their social life, let it happen more like that... It'd promote more meaningful player involvement in the game.

[Nilandia]

I'll have to echo what Jolena's said.

I've also had the opportunity to apply to GM in a few areas, and QC or customer service would have been my most likely fields. I've had a number of people, GMs included, say I should apply, and I'm pretty sure that I'd do well in it. Course, I can't know for sure unless I actually cross that line.

I chose not to become a GM for a few reasons, most of them covered already. When I worked as a Host, my time was not my own. I had to work at least 6 hours a week taking assists (often longer depending on the types of assists) and attend meetings twice a month, plus moderate the boards for at least an hour a day. I found I didn't have as much time to play as I used to.

Aside from the time loss, I also could not say things as I'd like. If I spoke out, as a player, on something I saw that was wrong, I opened myself to criticisms that I was behaving in a manner not befitting someone on staff.

In addition, if I were to become a GM, I'd be required by law not to say certain things about game mechanics or even that you are on staff. I didn't know much, if anything, on the game mechanics that people didn't already know as a Host, but going GM might not have helped me since my first instinct is to help people, though I probably could have held that part.

My greatest reason for not applying to become a GM, though, is that I wouldn't be able to update my website. The same has happened for at least two other GMs that I know of who had their own GS-related websites. I honestly can't see myself not updating my site, and I feel as though I help just as much as a player as I would if I were to become a GM.

Regarding customer service, however, I will have to disagree with the comments made thus far, and quite strongly. As I worked on the other side, I repeatedly saw instances of staff going out of their way to help people, going even beyond what was asked normally. I saw Hosts jump in to take lengthy assist queues, GMs stepping in to help in issues Hosts can't handle or have gotten out of control and more, all on a regular basis.

It is quite unfortunate that most times that staff has gone out of their way to help, it's almost entirely invisible to the person being helped, which can easily make it seem as though nothing out of the ordinary had happened.

That is not to say that incidents of poor customer service don't happen, but that they are significantly less frequent than good customer service. Couple that with the natural human ability to recall the bad more easily than the good, and it's easy to see why poor customer service may be thought to be more common than it actually is.

Gretchen

[ViridianAsp]

My only real problem is with their inability to help a friend right now, who has been repeatedly harrassed by another player all her attempts to keep this person from doing these terrrible things. My concern is that they do not look out for the well-being and safety of their customers in-game.

[Xaerve]

It is quite unfortunate that most times that staff has gone out of their way to help, it's almost entirely invisible to the person being helped, which can easily make it seem as though nothing out of the ordinary had happened.

That is not to say that incidents of poor customer service don't happen, but that they are significantly less frequent than good customer service. Couple that with the natural human ability to recall the bad more easily than the good, and it's easy to see why poor customer service may be thought to be more common than it actually is.

Gretchen

While I think that what you're saying is true, there really does need to be a set-in-stone policy that is actually followed. Its all over the place right now, the Tsin Box incident, no matter what you feel about it, is a good example.

[Xaerve]

My only real problem is with their inability to help a friend right now, who has been repeatedly harrassed by another player all her attempts to keep this person from doing these terrrible things. My concern is that they do not look out for the well-being and safety of their customers in-game.


I'd tell your friend to go public with it, and make a big deal, etc. That way the GMs are more compelled to react.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

It is quite unfortunate that most times that staff has gone out of their way to help, it's almost entirely invisible to the person being helped, which can easily make it seem as though nothing out of the ordinary had happened.

That is not to say that incidents of poor customer service don't happen, but that they are significantly less frequent than good customer service. Couple that with the natural human ability to recall the bad more easily than the good, and it's easy to see why poor customer service may be thought to be more common than it actually is.

Gretchen

As far as GameHosts go, I have *never* had an interaction with a GH where they behaved poorly or in a matter unfitting of a professional who is representing a company. All in all, I am impressed with the GameHosts (and most of the GMs).

I can however say that many times I have read posts on the boards from GMs who make snide remarks to other players and snide remarks about situations in general, as well as complain about aspects of their job in a pretty obvious attempt to make people feel guilty for having standards or complaints.

While I am sure many GMs if not all have done many good things, just those few instances of poor customer service, in my opinion, should have resulted in a warning of loss of their job, or the actual loss of their job. As I said-- I worked in retail and I've worked in customer-service industries. When I worked at the Limited, if a customer complained about a pair of pants we were selling to me, I smiled and talked to the customer about it.

What I *didn't* do was tell them, "Why are you moaning to me about this? There's nothing I can do about it." Or 'I don't get why you're concerned in the first place" or "Don't ask me to go to the backroom, that's pretty selfish. I'm already tired from working a 5 hour shift!" If I had made anything resembling a lot of the snide remarks (and later called "jokes" to cover their asses) I would have been fired. And if I ran a company and employees, "independent contractors" or not, behaved in a manner such as that, they would be punished accordingly.

Good behavior does NOT cancel out bad behavior or make it less of an issue-- even if a GM behaves wonderfully for a week but then makes two rude posts on the board, people are going to question whether or not they should trust this GM and people are going to be upset. Customer Service is not a "most of the time" thing. It takes ONE terrible experience to lose a customer forever, and to spread bad press about your product. There are stores I won't shop in simply because five years ago I had a terrible experience with Customer Service. It is an incredibly important focus for businesses, and Simutronics needs to improve theres.

[Jolena]

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that part of the reason that GM's are not given more crap over their sometimes snide remarks, is due to the fact that if they are fired or pissed off enough to be unmotivated, hiring a new GM to replace them is not so easily and readily done. The turnover rate at the GAP is higher, but there are more people willing to walk in and put in that application to get hired to sell jeans after school. Its not so in this business.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that part of the reason that GM's are not given more crap over their sometimes snide remarks, is due to the fact that if they are fired or pissed off enough to be unmotivated, hiring a new GM to replace them is not so easily and readily done. The turnover rate at the GAP is higher, but there are more people willing to walk in and put in that application to get hired to sell jeans after school. Its not so in this business.

I think that to a certain extent that is the problem, which I also agree is unfortunate. But I also think that if they utilized the player base and better managed funds/time/number of GMs as well as GM placement better, this wouldn't be such a huge issue. A lack of employees DOES mean employees have more leeway, but that doesn't excuse the company for not enforcing rules/building up the employee base to regain control of their product and their image.

[Alfster]

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that part of the reason that GM's are not given more crap over their sometimes snide remarks, is due to the fact that if they are fired or pissed off enough to be unmotivated, hiring a new GM to replace them is not so easily and readily done. The turnover rate at the GAP is higher, but there are more people willing to walk in and put in that application to get hired to sell jeans after school. Its not so in this business.

That, and most people wont work for free

[Jolena]

True that.

[Artha]

And none of their customers are going to quit because of a rude GM. They can do it because you'll take it.

[HouseofElves]

Well I've know some who have. And I've known GMs who get pretty sensitive when you call them on their shit.

Part of the pleasure of being a player is making the GMs miserable, right? Oh no, that's just what some of them think.

[TheEschaton]

Good behavior does NOT cancel out bad behavior or make it less of an issue-- even if a GM behaves wonderfully for a week but then makes two rude posts on the board, people are going to question whether or not they should trust this GM and people are going to be upset. Customer Service is not a "most of the time" thing. It takes ONE terrible experience to lose a customer forever, and to spread bad press about your product. There are stores I won't shop in simply because five years ago I had a terrible experience with Customer Service. It is an incredibly important focus for businesses, and Simutronics needs to improve theres.

You obviously don't realize that being a computer or tech person (or "geek") makes you inherently a) more grumpy, and b) less sociable.

-TheE-